Book Class Blacktail Huntin 2010

[proguide66]

OK ,this is going to be one TOUGH hunt to video document on my own...especially considering I havent shot a b tail farther than 30 yrds in 6 yrs .
Here's how the helpfull hints shall start...I dug up as many old licenses as I could find to record exactly when I shot some bucks.All the deer harvested but three had over 125 " of bone to 151". the other three 117 and 118...
114
so , I remember the weather of each kill so here's the dates and eleveations , weather...this 'may' help the guys lookin to nail a BIG mature coasty !!
2003 , Nov 18 , lots of snow , 4000ft , rattled in,alone, loads of sign , sunny , snowed all night,real stinky , bulging neck.
2004 Oct 15 , little stinky 5300 ft , frost , clear , no snow , first hr light timber line..( 117")

2005 Oct 15 , valley floor of upper Pemberton meadows , ( 1000ft?)
chronic rain for 5 days , bow shot , big neck,little stinky ( 140's ") first 15 minutes seeing light.
2005 Nov 17 2500ft , clear , frost fat 4X3 chasing a doe in rain , open 5 yr slash , 11am,reaked

2006 , nov 9 ,4500 ft, clear cold , maybe -5 , no snow two bucks head to head 830 am 118" stinky, first half hr light.
2006 ,5000ft , 18" snow , out of control rutting..rattled in , 141" reaked
..first 15 minutes seeing light well in timber.
2007,Nov 10 , no snow,kinda mild , stormed all night , still pissing in the am..sunny spots by 10 am...shot on open moss rocks/big timber5000ft..rattling , 151" deer alone...monster neck , kinda stinky,WAYY OFF ROAD.
Nov 30 , 2 ft snow , 4000 ft , stinky,hangin with 4 does , thick timber , first 1/2 hr seeing light.
2008, Nov 13 , mild , clear night , rubs everywhere..chasing does at 4500ft , 126"..kinda stinky..fat neck but not BULGING...two more bucks came in while butchering...first hr light..

Nov 27 , 4500 ft , razor back , reaked , rutting self to death , first hr light , heavy timber , called in..125"..lots of snow.

2009 ,

nov 15, literally puking snow , thigh deep , 4500 ft and climbing..full blown neck , reaked , with 1 doe..first 1.5 hrs seeing light in am.

Nov 24 , melting snow , kinda chilly , first 2 hrs seeing light , deep timber , 4000 ft ,melting..big neck, real stinky , with 1 doe and 5 point.

I'm STRUGGLING to not go hunting but am going to give a go making a few salt licks this weekend so I can MAYBE save myself a few lbs this fall looking for does !!...i'm also going to go out this wekend and do a BIG hike up with my bow and see if I might get lucky...weather been real shitty , snow level is dropping...'kinda' know where a VERRY large buck is...will try to video something and as well am getting trail cams out !!

One thing to note so far at nailing a BIG btail is that the majority is shot in the first hr seeing light and wayy back from any road in big mature timber....also , was VERY familiar with my spots pre - kill..wich is obviously key to getting in there in the dark. as well , PRE knowing the direction of the thermals and what time they change is a big help.
Next shall be some video of a days gear ect and maybe what a 'rut hole' looks like with ages of rubs ect....so..here comes some free education boys !!:-D....and MAYBE a monster buck getting harvested on camera...just maybe...oh , and here is who we hope to see verry soon..

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/003-1.jpg

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/010-1.jpg

ps..the date wasnt set on the cams..it was last yr late nov.

[ruger#1]

Wow. I hope you get that one. Nice big rack. Good luck.

[Bighorn hunter]

GOOD LUCK!!!! Look forward to following this. Have never had the chance to chace these critters. One day soon hopefully.

Cheers
BH

[lilhoss]

That's a good idea,keeping a journal.Hunted with an old timer years back who wrote in his journal for years about who,what & when it was harvested.It would have made for good reading as will yours.Maybe all the rest of us BT hunters can share a little more the details as to the harvest this season. Good luck

[todbartell]

good luck Steve I will be keeping close eye on this thread

[Rainforest hunter]

half muley!!

[Prowler]

Submitted for your approval. I am an excalent camera man, and I only require a few twinkies and a double double before each mornig hunt.
Upon the days return each day, I only require 2 cold BOTTLED lucky and another twinkie, and a floor to sleep on to prepare for the next days hunt. I hardley ever sneaze in the bush, and almost have my IBS and gas issues under controll. I think I would be a great asset to your crew this year.. Congeanialy yours Prowler.....:-D

[MichaelB]

Hey Steve, what a great thread idea! Thanks for posting.

[proguide66]

Submitted for your approval. I am an excalent camera man, and I only require a few twinkies and a double double before each mornig hunt.
Upon the days return each day, I only require 2 cold BOTTLED lucky and another twinkie, and a floor to sleep on to prepare for the next days hunt. I hardley ever sneaze in the bush, and almost have my IBS and gas issues under controll. I think I would be a great asset to your crew this year.. Congeanialy yours Prowler.....:-D

hahaha.. , Ian I only expect ALL your GPS #'s for this spring summer within 50 mile radius of Beale , :-P

[Prowler]

hahaha.. , Ian I only expect ALL your GPS #'s for this spring summer within 50 mile radius of Beale , :-P

Tell you what Steve, I will trade you all my #s for all your #s and you can forget the twinkies....:-D I will bring the bottled Luckies...:mrgreen:

[BlacktailStalker]

Ah yes, cape beale and blacktails... if only a guy could do both in one day, THAT would be livin'.

[Prowler]

when I lived year round in Bamfield, I often tried for both in one day. Dont know that I ever connected though..:cry:

[BCrams]

Nice pattern:

Weather might not matter too much but if you get a storm or snow the night before it might help.

Target your hunt between 4000 and 5500 ft elevation.

Target mature timber and bluffy areas between that elevation.

Ensure you're in the above places at first light for the first couple hours.

Time to pull the maps and identify those likely looking areas......one more thing..... what aspect did you kill each buck in?? That ought to pin it down.

[proguide66]

'aspect' ?..you mean each situation?...

One thing to note , i really dont sit much. I have noticed that these deer do a lot of 'standing' , especially while a doe is feeding. I really hunt hard for does , its what the bucks are doing and we HAVE to connect sometime.
Soon as I find a doe or two ( especially mature females with NO fawns) I sit with them as loong as possible....if they feed away out of sight , I use my can call just enough to keep em coming bacl and give me some extra time I may need for Mr. B to come out.
in snow , tracks are HUGE factor...there s no guessing if hes around. BIG tracks is what kicks me into gear...tells me flat out he's 'here' and lookin...then I go out as much as humanly possible and really start pounding for the does.....the does dont move much and I can 'usually' go right to each pocket and find the same ones..soon as one comes 'hot' its going to happen real quick...as long as the buck is what I'm after.
Bartels buck was a classic..I KNEW it was getting wacked that am after about maybe 12 days straight of finding the does..the night before putting two hot does to bed...next am 22yrds , blam..
as well , i'm getting these deer on all the slopes the compass has to offer...obviously more on the sout/west facing..but all around the slopes and dark big timbered north slopes...
These bucks really seem to 'tip toe' around , no reall 'cruising' aimlessly...they seem to 'know' exactly where they are and where they goin.
The damned things are soo smart and elusive , reason I like hunting them more than anything else.
Only animal that can still make my knees wobble when I get a big one!!!:mrgreen:

[BUCKJR]

Man how i've been looking forward to this thread! I'm gonna be sucking the info up like a sponge!

I see that ratting and calling these big bucks has produced well! I haven't done this much myself as i though it didn't work much for the blackies. But due to the thick timber and bush i hunt this may be a worthy endevour to explore.

How would you determine if an area is worthy to rattle in?

I have located a number of 'rut holes' (i think), SIGNIFICANT amount of rubs from recent and years past. Should i be setting up in these areas to rattle?

Thanks and look forward to your future posts!

[bigwhiteys]

How would you determine if an area is worthy to rattle in?

I have located a number of 'rut holes' (i think), SIGNIFICANT amount of rubs from recent and years past. Should i be setting up in these areas to rattle?


Good Question... I'd like to know the answer too... I tried rattling last night, wind in my face, overlooking a tiny little area of slash, bordering some deep timber. Lots of fresh sign around, including all the marks from a fight the night prior.

I would rattle hard, really smashing the bag together for the first whack and then would slowly grind them, mimicking two bucks locked together...

Each rattle session lasted like 30 secs to 1 min about 10-20 minutes apart. After about 45 minutes and 3 or 4 rattling sessions, there was something moving through the timber in my direction, I could hear the branches breaking...

Sounded like a deer, moving slowly... in comparison to the black bears which usually just crash through...

Never saw what was there though... The night ended without seeing anything.

Carl

[luckynuts]

Hey Carl,

Were you using scent? I have had great luck rattling BTs right around this time on the island but have always used a doe in heat scent when doing so. Shouldn't need to hammer the bone too hard. again I had deer in the area each time I would set up between the bedding area and a rocky bluff they came out to feed on. Good luck

W.

[Gateholio]

rattling this time of year shoudl work well, but I wouldn't go nuts like the whitetail hunters on TV:-D

More mellow seems to work better for me.:-D

[proguide66]

When I find a rut hole , I stay wayy away from it until I KNOW 'its on'...one rut hole I have had for years usually gets hammered to hell...I would try different approaches into it ( thick as hell) and would NEVER see a thing , not even a yrling fawn...butt he tracks , shit , beds , fight areas were incredible..bark still green from shreddings ect ect...I DID rattle in a 141" buck in there the very first yr...never again,,,5 yrs later. I tried everything...put a trail cam in there and had 13 bucks on it in 4 days..3 5X5's a throw back fork and a buck at 130am that would go 160" plus...never saw him again..still havent..
anyway , blacktaisl DONT come running in like whitetails( wich are a damned easy pushover for calling in)...I set up where 'if ' one comes in he has to come in front of me and cant circle....but they seem to more stand and look/listen..or tip toe in..its more a curiosity instead of an 'excitement' thing like whitetails.
As soon as I saw the buck pics on my cam , I threw the rattle horns , the abviosly knew it was me and cleared the way for me..I did finally get in there in the drk and above the rut hole to where I 'guessed' they were going to avoid me , used my quakerboy can call and had 4 does and a 5X5 come right into my lap...boom.
I usualy rattle a bit..stand a few..still hunt on...rattle a 'bit'...stand a while...slowly move on...my 151 buck listened to me rattle for probably 15 minutes...I slowly moved on , here he was maybe 50 yrds from where I was rattling and only 3 steps from his bed....but I'll bet the rattling made sure he would stay for me to see , instead of him hearing a noise and thinking it might be a predator...may have calmed him enough for me to get to 30 yrds??
The can call has helped me more than the horns , but I never elave without either one , or a spare trail cam...
the can call sounds EXACTLY like our does...I mean EXACTLY...the does are quite vocal with each other , more vocal than I would have thought yrs ago....the can call gets full award for Bartels buck and as well maybe 3 other book bucks I have nailed the last few yrs....I tip it , stand , walk maybe 10 yrds , stand , tip it , keep going...kinda like a meandering deer...but only use it when I KNOW I'm close to a good hole.
I'll try to get this shit on vdeo soon...Gatehouse has offered to be my camera guy this weekend but I have a feeling he's trying to infiltrate another one of my spots..:razz:

[bigwhiteys]

Hey Carl,

Were you using scent? I have had great luck rattling BTs right around this time on the island but have always used a doe in heat scent when doing so. Shouldn't need to hammer the bone too hard. again I had deer in the area each time I would set up between the bedding area and a rocky bluff they came out to feed on. Good luck

W.
No scent... I may try using some tonight. I only hammered the bag hard at the first go to mimmick bucks crashing together, then just slowly grinded the bag between palms to mimmick the sound of the bucks locked together.

I bought a rattle bag, it was full of wood doweling... sounded like wood, not antler so I cut up an old muley rack I had and replaced with those pieces, now it sounds way better. I should have just bought an empty bag to start!

Carl

[proguide66]

Carl , here's a thought. You mentioned rattling near a slash with big timber near by.

Yrs ago living on the island I would go to a slash near the north SanJuan...surrounded by big timber. the slash looked like a frikkin deer playground , shit , tracks , beds everywhere...I would hike up there and leave the truck WAYYY away , get there in the drk , nothing..ever....drove me nuts.
so , I finally clued in and used a flashlight to get wayy in the timber on the high side of the slash I would be maybe 100 yrds in the timber for first seeing light, bingo..deer everywhere..boom..never went back since to hunting out of the timber.
One thing I KNOW for sure is if you have BIG timber , be in it...screw the slashes...you 'may' get a 'good' buck in a slash...but you probably ARENT going to get a MONSTER blacktail in one...of course the odd lucky guy gets one..but not a TRUE monster... I'd try gettin wayy in that timber!!

[proguide66]

PS on those 'rut holes'..
Its not often you find a true 'rut hole' but when you do its a gift. You will see it is one by the literally dozens of rubs from years gone by and present...in my rut hole I can stand and count up to 40 rubs from one spot...and many many more as I slip along...its maybe 200 yrds long by 100 wide in 25 yr old growth. I have now figured out that the deer use it at night ( probably due to me) and then move out and up from it at first light or even just before.
that massive two point last yr was in the rut hole , I now still hunt above it for first light and am consistently getting the deer....the big buck came right up out of it and was heading to the bedding bluffs right behind a doe...shot him 100 yrds from 151 bucks bed wich was straight up cliffs from the rut hole and maybe 300 yrds above to 400...now I only go through my rut hole maybe once er twice to see if 'its on'...then start hunting above it.

[bigwhiteys]

Carl , here's a thought. You mentioned rattling near a slash with big timber near by.
One thing I KNOW for sure is if you have BIG timber , be in it...screw the slashes...you 'may' get a 'good' buck in a slash...but you probably ARENT going to get a MONSTER blacktail in one...of course the odd lucky guy gets one..but not a TRUE monster... I'd try gettin wayy in that timber!!


The specific timber I am hunting is not even on the mountain yet, it's real low down, just hasn't been touched by any of the recent logging.

Here is a map...

Yellow = Where there is evidence of fights (last 3 days)
Thin Red = Where deer are crossing to and fro.
Thick Red = Recently clearcut.

http://www.bchuntingblog.com/mypics/btmap.jpg

What would you do? There really isn't much of any elevation to capitalize on.

Carl

[todbartell]

all I can add that if you hear a hissing and think it's a bird, it's likely a buck

[BUCKJR]

WOW thanks for the help! I definatley have found two "rut holes" as they look just like you describe. I definaltey need to attack them differently than i have been. i will definatley be trying some of the rattling/calling techniques in the upcoming weeks.

I'll also put up the trail cams and post anything of significance.

Thanks again proguide!

[Gateholio]

Carl

I would move deeper into the timber, being cognicant of the wind and up/down thermals. :)

[proguide66]

Carl , I would FOR SURE go into the big patch of timber and do a 'recon' thoroughly...find EXACTLY where most the rubs are , wich way the winds goes through and where the majority of 'mature' deer prints are...get that part over with quick for up coming action.
I would then CONSTANTLY moniter the crossing trails you outlined...stay on the road and KEEP going until you see 'Mr.B's tracks crossing..by then you 'should' know where he's probably hangin in the timber , know wich way the wind will travel through and at what time , then slip in there like a slug during some snotty conditions , can call him and drill him!!
I'll bet if you could sit in that intersection of road withn your back to the bush on a stormy day all day you would see deer crossing both roads....not sure if you would see a monster though , theyr going out of the timber in the night 99% of the time...those crossing trails on the road are sweet...easy to monitor tracks...I dont have it that easy for track sightings where I am unless it snows...again , tracks for me is 90% of my clues...

also , dont forget , scent lasts on the ground for minimum 4 hrs...once you walked through an 'area' its 'done for the day...usually...looks like it would be great fun slipping through that big patch all morning with some good loud wind and rain...no matter how thick it is!!!

[brian]

This is an awesome thread, the kind of thread that makes HBC pure gold! This year I was planning on just hunting the timber and ignoring the clear cuts, and this thread has confirmed it for me.

[BCrams]

Carl, without going into the timber and knowing what its like. Based on the thin red lines as a movement between areas. I would try to personally maximize view points of crossing areas and rattle from said spot.

If rifle hunting, I personally would set up a blind / tree stand where the 3 roads intersect at the right of the image you put up to maximize the view of the 2 crossing areas and the fight area on the right. You can't be in all places but trying to up the odds in my favour, thats what I would do just based on the image. You have 2 crossing areas and a fight area.

The best crossing in my opinion from the photo is the one on the right. Its a more natural movement corridor between 2 large tracts of timber that offers more seclusion for day time crossing. You know at some point, a buck is definatly going to cross there as its the pinch point between 3 cutblocks!!

[proguide66]

This is a photo of one of the only 2 bucks I have shot IN my rut hole...lohttp://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/bookblacktail044.jpgok how shit eatin thick it is !!!!..nasty crap...can call gets credit for his death..

this is the first buck I shot in there...didnt get much of the surrounding shit in the pic though..but the horns and can call murdered him.
Another point...size of rubs DONT MATTER !!!...I tracked this buck for 3 hrs the day before I killed him..he was dogging a doe hard and made maybe 12 rubs along the way , was verrry exciting...the rubs he made were on 1/2" cedar saplings , just bashed it a bit, enough to scar the bark and drop some green..along he went , rubbed a 3" alder but just a 'bit , then along the wahe hit a frikkin TRUNK and attacked it,...and it had also been previously attacked over the yrs and the same fall....but most his rubs that day were tiny...ones I woulda thought were from small bucks yrs back...rub size doesnt mean sit with blackys....gimme two bases and two eye guards and I'll show you some bark violence easy...depends on how agresive you would be that day for how much bark drops...http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/campics046.jpg

This buck also came by me weasing at about 15 yrds after hitting the horns a bit...but it was just too early to see my crosshairs and had to kinda watch / listen to him go past...then rattled again once he was out of sight,he came right back weasing and I shot him at 10yrds..'just' able to see cross hairs..

[BCrams]

proguide ... aspect - north south east or west slopes in general.

[proguide66]

proguide ... aspect - north south east or west slopes in general.


I'm finding these buggers all over the map....my rut hole is ina dark hole wich rarely gets sun due to it being on the north side of a mountain and down in a deep dark gully..The BIG two point was tracked and shot on the north slope above the hole , 151" was right on the height of land above it , other bucks awere shot right on top as high as I could go and crossed south to north...well...east west , all over...south slopes seemed to be inhabited during the last week...probably slowing down and looking for some sun to save energy?...but really , Im on em all over the place.

These deer really seem to depend on branches and lichen getting knocked off from snow load...I still am amazed at how high these buggers are wintering , but in BIG timber with lots of snow load there seems to be a fresh feeding daily around here.

[270WIN]

What can call are you using and have you tried the ratling bag or you only use old antlers.

[bigwhiteys]

Thanks guys... I am heading out in about another hour here, I am going to setup on the crossroads tonight and hike the timber in block B in the morning for a little recon.

This area sees quite a bit of pressure, as well as lots of dirt bike traffic throughout the day, in general I think these deer are pretty wary but there is plenty of them.

I do have a treestand, but haven't even pulled it out of the box yet, it's my last resort.

Carl

[BCrams]

I'm finding these buggers all over the map....my rut hole is ina dark hole wich rarely gets sun due to it being on the north side of a mountain and down in a deep dark gully..The BIG two point was tracked and shot on the north slope above the hole , 151" was right on the height of land above it , other bucks awere shot right on top as high as I could go and crossed south to north...well...east west , all over...south slopes seemed to be inhabited during the last week...probably slowing down and looking for some sun to save energy?...but really , Im on em all over the place.

These deer really seem to depend on branches and lichen getting knocked off from snow load...I still am amazed at how high these buggers are wintering , but in BIG timber with lots of snow load there seems to be a fresh feeding daily around here.

One of these years I'll have to chase after blacktailed deer as a change up from muleys and white-tailed deer.

[BCrams]

Thanks guys... I am heading out in about another hour here, I am going to setup on the crossroads tonight and hike the timber in block B in the morning for a little recon.

This area sees quite a bit of pressure, as well as lots of dirt bike traffic throughout the day, in general I think these deer are pretty wary but there is plenty of them.

I do have a treestand, but haven't even pulled it out of the box yet, it's my last resort.

Carl

Its amazing what walks out and across roads at crossings within minutes of vehicles, quads and dirtbikes fading off in the distance!! Good luck.

[bigwhiteys]

Its amazing what walks out and across roads at crossings within minutes of vehicles, quads and dirtbikes fading off in the distance!! Good luck.
Oh yeah, for sure. And most guys I've run into hunting around here are just driving the roads in a pickup, hoping to cross paths with a buck. It happens! But I've always had more luck still hunting.

Carl

[proguide66]

This is about the fastest approach by a btail to the can call as I have seen.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRM304t_az0

if you watch or fast forward through this video , you can hear the sound of the can call I use...the little buck came in , circled down wind and then just walked away....2 bucks came in while I was cutting up the deer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85EPpQYqaVg


and here's the usual reaction to calling to them , most smart blackies just stand and look....this is why I keep moving until I find does to hang out with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJAdmyB4wNM

[CooperSscat]

Subscribed!

I'll try to drag my Dad out for a Region 2 blacktail hunt or two during the rut and we'll see if we can lure them in with some doe calls and/or rattling etc.

It should be fun, especially with the help from this thread!

Jeremy

[cainer]

I was out today-and I can tell you they are not in the high alpine right now. Was up around 5000-5600ft in the snow and saw Nothing!
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr331/cainer1/857.jpg
on a bad day I usually see at least a doe, so today was absolute crap. No sign, no nothin.
couple days ago i saw a doe w/2 fawns
Here's a quick clip i took of Her.
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr331/cainer1/th_851.jpg (http://s497.photobucket.com/albums/rr331/cainer1/?action=view&current=851.mp4)


Not quite sure where to hunt right now.

[Heavy Metal]

Hi there loving the post proguide so much helpfull information its helping me out huge. One question, My partner and I have been hunting a valley that we believe holds some good deer, you say that the big boys will not come to does with fawns, the past couple of outings we have spotted a mature doe with two buck fawns and one spike buck, will the big boys not push the little buck out in order to breed that doe? Or will it stay away

[proguide66]

Hi there loving the post proguide so much helpfull information its helping me out huge. One question, My partner and I have been hunting a valley that we believe holds some good deer, you say that the big boys will not come to does with fawns, the past couple of outings we have spotted a mature doe with two buck fawns and one spike buck, will the big boys not push the little buck out in order to breed that doe? Or will it stay away


Well , I could never make a bold statement and SAY a buck " isnt going to come to a doe with fawns"...but..with my past experiences when I see more than one mature btail doe together there's USUALLY some mature 'bone' with them.
Even with moose I notice a lesser bull will try and hang with a cow and calf but the BIG bulls seem to have the mature hotty's with no snot noses hangin off em. With BIG btail bucks they seem to know the 'fun girls' over some uptight single mom still hangin with junior!!

Big btails dont seem to 'push' the small bucks away , they have already made it clear who is dominant before the rut really starts , small bucks just shy away on site....I'm sure the BIG bucks have a snif at everything en route , just as us with a stiff pecker lookin fer action,:twisted:..but over all , when I run into a doe and yrlings I usually keep going after making sure they are alone.

[proguide66]

I was out today-and I can tell you they are not in the high alpine right now. Was up around 5000-5600ft in the snow and saw Nothing!
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr331/cainer1/857.jpg
on a bad day I usually see at least a doe, so today was absolute crap. No sign, no nothin.
couple days ago i saw a doe w/2 fawns
Here's a quick clip i took of Her.
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr331/cainer1/th_851.jpg (http://s497.photobucket.com/albums/rr331/cainer1/?action=view&current=851.mp4)


Not quite sure where to hunt right now.

haha...shit , a bad WEEK I see nothing...GOOD WEEK maybe 2 er 3...gone tonnes of days without seein a thing..but they ARE THERE !!

And the 'Basin Rd' doesnt count!!!..wayy too easy to see one in there!!!:-P:-P

[cainer]

And the 'Basin Rd' doesnt count!!!..wayy too easy to see one in there!!!:-P:-P


no shitake- hiked all morning-come out onto the road and whose standing 10 feet in front of me? el flatheads:-D

& that was the 'road' right beside the river-so the girls are hanging low right now i think

[Spy]

Wow great reading, thanks for all these helpful tips!:-D Proguide What has taken you, Im sure many years to learn! These tips are going to help me out in the field.Thanks for another great thread. Good luck on your hunt this season.:-D

[115 or bust]

Hey Steve
Here's my question for you not really on the info although your elevation is suprising lol around here there aren't even tree's that high. How do you find they react to you walking in in the dark? Obviously its impossible to be quite as quiet in the dark and I assume the flashlight draws attention to yourself? I'm just asking as so far my two largest timber Blacktails I have approached (unsuccessfully lol both were in the low 110+ class which for island deer is pretty skookum), both were less than 100 yards from the edge of the slash on otherwise long and high timberhunts.

[proguide66]

Hey Steve
Here's my question for you not really on the info although your elevation is suprising lol around here there aren't even tree's that high. How do you find they react to you walking in in the dark? Obviously its impossible to be quite as quiet in the dark and I assume the flashlight draws attention to yourself? I'm just asking as so far my two largest timber Blacktails I have approached (unsuccessfully lol both were in the low 110+ class which for island deer is pretty skookum), both were less than 100 yards from the edge of the slash on otherwise long and high timberhunts.
I am actually VERY familiar with each of my 3 spots I hunt . The time I put in is kinda rediculous , but WTF...I am pre familiar with wich way the wind is going to be going during the cool night , where the deer 'should be' and what time the thermals are going to change.
If I HAVE TO , I will drive then hike a big distance to get the right approach angle as to not blow em out before I get there.

I used to walk the old concrete waterline between sooke and goldstream in the dark to get to a great spot , it was dead silent and very handy.I dont know how many times I spooked a deer while walking alone with the flashlight and having the living shit scared outta me:eek:

For sure the key is pre knowing everything about your spot , then it starts coming together....its a shitload of time and this is also why I STRESS to be a selfish prick and keep our spots to yourself...once some lazy envious prick follows you ( after putting in more time trying to hunt you to get a deer than learning themselves:evil:) and goes in there , its allll over..not just that day but forever...done like dinner.....doesnt take much for BIG blacktails to leave all together or go strickly nocturnal.
One more point wich works for me is hunting a spot wich looks likely to help a deer die of old age...fortunately , from north Van to here is LOADED with nasty terrain wich harbours many deer that probably never even see a human...just have to pick a hill and start doing homework.( and try to find a secret parking spot.)
Thats actually another point...I switch vehicles sometimes or leave my truck somewhere I want people to think I'm hunting and get dropped off at my real spot all the time...or park and hike like a psyco to get to my secret hole.We live in a small comunity here and Ive already had one amazing spot RUINED forever from 'truck chasers'..makes you have violent thoughts:evil:....secret parking is huge!!
I know how tough it is to get a buck over 110 on the island , but from what I have learned about these buggers is they DO get a hell of a lot larger there...they ARE there and it is possible to figure em out , just takes a shit load of time that not many people can afford to loose to hunting and this is why its sooo damned exciting to drop a true genetically superior buck. The majority of the deer I have shot here over the years I hunted for a couple weeks straight ( after years of gaining terrain knowledge)and never knew what they looked like till the day I pulled the trigger. Unless your hunting farm land you will rarely get to see a HUGE buck more than once...hopefully its through some sights !

[proguide66]

OOOPS.....just looked at the map I have here and see I read the lines wrong ( smaller map , real steep)....guess too confusing for a simpleton as myself.
I'm shooting them on the average 3000 to 4000...majority right at 3000....:oops:....BUT , they are growing their horns around 5 to 5500 at my spots for sure....and there's bucks at that height right now.

[Mtn Wonderer]

I was out yesterday in R2 and saw 5 deer, one I rattled in, but wouldn't come closer them about 50 yards all I could see was the legs. 45 min after shooting light. Then up and through the timber and cliffs, did more calling with no more luck. There was snow on the ground with quite a few tracks in it, it was warming up so snow was dropping every where, like bombs so I kept looking, I found more tracks in snow and rubs. But could not find the deer. It was so noisy I thought I would get a good chance at getting close.

After a few more hours hunting in the snow bombs, I moved back down the mountain a bit and got busted by a deer I don't know if it was a buck or not. about 11:00am.

On the way out I saw a doe with fawns, so five deer for the day in the timber.

Elevation range I was hunting. 4450 -3300ft

I have a question:Do you go back to your spots day after day. or do you give them a rest? opinions???

Thanks,

MTW

[bushpig slayer]

thanks for all your great knowledge you are helping us rookies out for that big pig this year what kind of can do you use i have a knight and hale witch sounds a lot different than yours it's slow and deeper sounding,i would like to try your kind.oh and do you use any scents doe in heat or buck scent.what kind thanks again!

[proguide66]

I was out yesterday in R2 and saw 5 deer, one I rattled in, but wouldn't come closer them about 50 yards all I could see was the legs. 45 min after shooting light. Then up and through the timber and cliffs, did more calling with no more luck. There was snow on the ground with quite a few tracks in it, it was warming up so snow was dropping every where, like bombs so I kept looking, I found more tracks in snow and rubs. But could not find the deer. It was so noisy I thought I would get a good chance at getting close.

After a few more hours hunting in the snow bombs, I moved back down the mountain a bit and got busted by a deer I don't know if it was a buck or not. about 11:00am.

On the way out I saw a doe with fawns, so five deer for the day in the timber.

Elevation range I was hunting. 4450 -3300ft

I have a question:Do you go back to your spots day after day. or do you give them a rest? opinions???

Thanks,

MTW

holy shit...sounds like JACKPOT to me.....yah , I leave em alone form amybe 3 to 4 days...cant say THAT is the right thing to do er not...but I treat em like they are VERRRY sensitive...I try to make it look like i'm just innocent and passing through....then approach THAT hole perfectly later on when their guard goes back down...sounds like a kill about to come up!!!..I know I ruined it for my rut hole by continuosly trying to still hunt it..the deer figured out 'the horns' were me real quick , and stopped going in there during daylight alltogether....thats why right now its killing me not going right now, but I KNOW better....soon though.

[proguide66]

thanks for all your great knowledge you are helping us rookies out for that big pig this year what kind of can do you use i have a knight and hale witch sounds a lot different than yours it's slow and deeper sounding,i would like to try your kind.oh and do you use any scents doe in heat or buck scent.what kind thanks again!


Quakerboy can call...its on the money!
I'm anti scent myself...I am a slip along still hunter and wouldnt be in one spot for a scent to work for me...if I put it on me then deer are going to smell ME and the scent...good money for the guys marketing it though!!
I true BIG buck isnt going to come to you from downwind...PERIOD....aint gonna happen...and if he cross's your path you layed with your feet hrs earlier , he's getting wayy outta your way...seen it first hand many times.
Loose the scent , save the $ , use the wind...I use does as my bait as often as I can.

[sniper ren]

Awsome info! Thanks for all the great post!

[Twobucks]

proguide - you're my new favourite human.

Heading up to some high country tomorrow - I'll have your advice in my head as I go. Thanks!

[proguide66]

Well I sure hope some monster bucks start adorning this thread soon !!!:-D

[Shooter]

We have faith in you PG :smile:

Can't wait to see the fruits of your labor posted up.

[Twobucks]

Little late for me to get anything but lucky, but if I tip a cranker one of these years, I'll put PG's name on it like it was the Stanley Cup.

[Spy]

proguide - you're my new favourite human.

Heading up to some high country tomorrow - I'll have your advice in my head as I go. Thanks!
High country you mean the Malahat. LOL :-D

[The Hermit]

Hey Steve walking the concrete water main was one of my fav access points too! The whole area is now closed to hunting that's to the nature conservancy and parks. I have taken more deer out of those hills and, back in the day, from the watershed lands too. The area in general holds SO many deer it kills me not to have access anymore.

Thanks for the tips. Question, have you cut silent "trails" into your spot(s)? I've cleared brush quite often in the weeks leading up to the rut to help staying quiet. I also started using those little reflective tacks to keep oriented too.

[trailhunter]

this is the best thread on huntingbc hands down. I just spent an hour going threw your youtube vids PG ........i have one suggestion for you. I can tell you injoy videoing your hunts a posting them. Have you ever tryed windows movie marker on your computer? Its pretty straight forward putting all the separate vid clips into one 4-5 min video......it was kinda a pain sifting threw all the different little clips trying to peace the action together lol. Once you get the hang of it youll be hooked.

PS you have a friggin honey hole for blacktails........you are a lucky man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pm if you need any help, id more than happy to give you a hand

[proguide66]

this is the best thread on huntingbc hands down. I just spent an hour going threw your youtube vids PG ........i have one suggestion for you. I can tell you injoy videoing your hunts a posting them. Have you ever tryed windows movie marker on your computer? Its pretty straight forward putting all the separate vid clips into one 4-5 min video......it was kinda a pain sifting threw all the different little clips trying to peace the action together lol. Once you get the hang of it youll be hooked.

PS you have a friggin honey hole for blacktails........you are a lucky man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

pm if you need any help, id more than happy to give you a hand

thanks man!!

ME edit videos??..shit , I just learned how to turn on a calculator two years ago!:redface:....all the videos were put on youtube in line with the threads that accompanied them such as my guide season fall...they make more sense looking em up on the threads.Gilmores bear hunt thread is an example..people looking at those videos on youtube without the thread must think Im nuts.
There's a tv outfitt makeing a show from our outfit and they are bugging me for footage so i am making a deal with them to make me some pro DVD's with ALL my footage wich seems to be 'miles'..

[proguide66]

Hey Steve walking the concrete water main was one of my fav access points too! The whole area is now closed to hunting that's to the nature conservancy and parks. I have taken more deer out of those hills and, back in the day, from the watershed lands too. The area in general holds SO many deer it kills me not to have access anymore.

Thanks for the tips. Question, have you cut silent "trails" into your spot(s)? I've cleared brush quite often in the weeks leading up to the rut to help staying quiet. I also started using those little reflective tacks to keep oriented too.
There's some sad news !!..I havent lived on the island for 10 or 11 years , its changed soo much its depressing..I have neevr seen the bear hill development and dont want to , I used to hike up that hill from the highway with my bow , park at the intersection of the highway and goldstream road..I'm guessin its all anahilated now..
I also used to park along sooke road and religiously hike up till I hit the waterline , hit another ancient road that I guess served the powerlines back there...dragged out more than a few 5X5's and one went 126" !!!!...stuck an arrow in him.

Thankfully my 3 spots I hunt are naturally 'predator freindly' and loud noise isnt much an issue..especially when the snow falls....of course clear night on snow is absolutely nasty , but a guy can sound like a deer walking in it if he goes slow...These disgusting steep mountains are making a LOT of deer dieing of old age , the cliffs ect and BIG strips of ancient growth can make it fairly obvious where a guys gonna see em...too much fun..going to start tomarrow!!!:-D..bow / 3 cams in my pack , gettin er done!!

[luckynuts]

Good ole sooke water main. Lots a big deer have come off that pipeline. Used to bow hunt it quite a bit. I was down there this past summer I was stunned on the develpoment. Good buddy built a house in bear mountain OMG it's a friggin traffic jam on that hill now. Though we did see a couple of dink bucks and does on people's lawns:wink: Metchosin was a mecca for the bowhunter though most of the old farms I hunted are now subdivided into smaller lots or have become subdivisions. Progress i guess:rolleyes:. still we did end up seeing a couple big 3x3s and a few smaller bucks coming into my aunts apple trees.

Miss those days.

W.

[chinook]

Brilliant thread. Im jacked on blackies and have a pretty good edge on locality so Im going to heed your advice as best I can. Hopefully Ill walk away with a buck that will make a guys heart stop. I pulled a 126 blackie out of there already but I know there is another, Im sure of it.

Question for you... last year I took a crack at a nice buck tending 3 does and missed:cry:. Next day I went back there looking for him and ended up walking out of there with the 126" BT. 126 was flying solo about 100yards away from the one I missed. I think the one I missed was smaller but I was 250 yards out. You think he would have been the dominant buck in town with bigger head gear or was just an intruder? He was a doozy, book for sure, but unless I place my hands on his gear this year Ill never know if hes "The One". The one I missed was BIG bodied, the one on the wall was a minnow. What do you think?

[Gateholio]

Brilliant thread. Im jacked on blackies and have a pretty good edge on locality so Im going to heed your advice as best I can. Hopefully Ill walk away with a buck that will make a guys heart stop. I pulled a 126 blackie out of there already but I know there is another, Im sure of it.

Question for you... last year I took a crack at a nice buck tending 3 does and missed:cry:. Next day I went back there looking for him and ended up walking out of there with the 126" BT. 126 was flying solo about 100yards away from the one I missed. I think the one I missed was smaller but I was 250 yards out. You think he would have been the dominant buck in town with bigger head gear or was just an intruder? He was a doozy, book for sure, but unless I place my hands on his gear this year Ill never know if hes "The One". The one I missed was BIG bodied, the one on the wall was a minnow. What do you think?


I'm not PG66, I'm just his disciple when it comes to blacktails, but that one you missed is probbaly bigger this year!

Keep in mind that "small" deer might spar with another, but the big ones rarely fight unless there is another big one around. When a big guy shows up, the small ones just turn tail and leave. Big antlers usually makes the smaller pones just ;leave, after a sniff or two.

[JCVD]

Man all of my big bucks were taken around the 700 ft mark...I went up high yesterday b/c of this thread lol, to see if I could cut some sign. I saw a couple fawn tracks in the clay that were old, no scat, no rubs, no fresh tracks. I don't have the types of bluffs that PG has in his vids at that level, all mine are down low. I think it is b/c of the gigantic main population of residential deer we have at sea level..that and the Elk that push them around and out of my main honey holes for the last few years. On a side note the wolf pop. is getting ridiculous. Tracks everywhere, I can hear them howling now regularally and my bud just shot a big black female in broad daylight whilst getting a load of firewood. No fear, none.

Oh also found a spiker torn apart around the 1500 ft mark.

[blacktail_junkie]

Thanks PG66, this stuff is great, just wondering if possibly you may have a video of rattling, I see alot of how to questions and in the past years I myself have searched the net looking for a how to video on rattling BT's but only come across info on rattling whitey's. I love hunting the BT's and it's nice to finaly come across info geared towards them.

[ruger#1]

Try in here. http://www.blacktailcountry.com/ http://www.blacktailtrophytactics.com/

[proguide66]

Brilliant thread. Im jacked on blackies and have a pretty good edge on locality so Im going to heed your advice as best I can. Hopefully Ill walk away with a buck that will make a guys heart stop. I pulled a 126 blackie out of there already but I know there is another, Im sure of it.

Question for you... last year I took a crack at a nice buck tending 3 does and missed:cry:. Next day I went back there looking for him and ended up walking out of there with the 126" BT. 126 was flying solo about 100yards away from the one I missed. I think the one I missed was smaller but I was 250 yards out. You think he would have been the dominant buck in town with bigger head gear or was just an intruder? He was a doozy, book for sure, but unless I place my hands on his gear this year Ill never know if hes "The One". The one I missed was BIG bodied, the one on the wall was a minnow. What do you think?


Well , I never claimed to be a deer psycologist,:razz: but I can tell you THIS with confidence : you have a spot where bone grows to 126" plus ( on the island to boot)..now you have a SPOT. That area will ALWAYS have those genetics , cant take em away..this means each yr or secnd er whatever..there WILL BE a buck ( or a handfull)of that class or better...quarranteed....no need to worry whos dominant really..just keep it secret and if its hammer btails you want DONT SHOOT BIG ONES...shoot big ones you cant shoot a true MONSTER !!...throw some pics up !!!

[proguide66]

Man all of my big bucks were taken around the 700 ft mark...I went up high yesterday b/c of this thread lol, to see if I could cut some sign. I saw a couple fawn tracks in the clay that were old, no scat, no rubs, no fresh tracks. I don't have the types of bluffs that PG has in his vids at that level, all mine are down low. I think it is b/c of the gigantic main population of residential deer we have at sea level..that and the Elk that push them around and out of my main honey holes for the last few years. On a side note the wolf pop. is getting ridiculous. Tracks everywhere, I can hear them howling now regularally and my bud just shot a big black female in broad daylight whilst getting a load of firewood. No fear, none.

Oh also found a spiker torn apart around the 1500 ft mark.

What area are you in for these wolves??? ( not your spot , general area)??

[proguide66]

I started the 'process' of narowing down where to find my buck today.I went straight up as far as I could before burning out..I either chose the wrong ridge , 'just' missed the 'hangout' or the buggers migratory and wont be seein him for a couple weeks??...dunno yet...but , soon as it snows his feet will give it up.
4 hrs up, 2.5 down...done..this is a more typical day for me..like mentioned earlier , 2 to 3 deer seen for me is a good day..but when its a buck , its usually unreal quality !!..one pile fresh shit , one set of sheds...this video shows how 'predator freindly' this spot is....i'm going to bow hunt this spot and alternate with my other GOOD spots till my two tags get cut!
i already know where he 'should' show up , but decided to try and figure out where he is before the rut kicks in...might not be a good idea but I became more familiar with my spot wich will have its advantages later when it dumps snow.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x2PywxmpGk

This is the only live thing I saw all day..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ajTDfkdBqk

[kennyj]

I love that habitat up there. Reminds of the mountain tops of Cowichan Area when there was still trees on them. Used to climb those mountains most weekends. Good luck on the monster BT.
kenny

[Shooter]

This is the only live thing I saw all day..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ajTDfkdBqk


Man you were lucky to have gotten out of there unscathed. Thats the first live footage I have seen of the mythical Bearded beast. He looked ready to strike luckily you survived to continue the thread :mrgreen:.

I was watching over some real nice bluffs today that I may go set foot on tomorrow. It made me think of this thread :-D

[JCVD]

What area are you in for these wolves??? ( not your spot , general area)??

2-5

Another buddy got his dog ripped apart last year as well. His brothers dog got tossed into the mix and came away with only some stitches thankfully.

[MichaelB]

Here`s a good question:
I was in my spot today, and saw the buck I have been looking for. Unfortunately, I spooked him and he bolted. I was gonna give him a week before I head back to that spot. What do you guys think? Now that I know he`s there, do I attack! or do I give him a chance to settle down. Do you think he`ll go nocturnal if I spook him two straight days, or has he already gone nocturnal?

[Shooter]

did you spook him with a shot through the antlers or did he just bust you walking?

[MichaelB]

Busted me walking..........stalking.....slow.....very slow. I hit the can call immediately and I didn`t hear him running anymore, so he might`ve heard the call and stopped but must`ve walked off. So not spooked bad but spooked nonetheless.

[lp270win]

I was out tonight in absolute PISSING down rain, high above most of the fog and didnt see a damn thing until i drove out! I thought there would have been deer moving but I guess not. This is a AWSOME thread! Keep up the good work...........PG66, You should have your own hunting show!

[Sitkaspruce]

Wow 66, I guess you were not in the "Rain Shadow" of the coast..........:wink:

I was out in the thick stuff today and saw absolutely the same thing you did.....the dreaded squeeler....x2:mrgreen:

Man did it rain today, It was around 50mm for the day....calling for a lot more tomorrow + 120 k winds. Good day to ref a few hockey games.

The day looked like this when I was up top first thing this morning.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Sitkaspruce/PA300041.jpg

A question for all you BT hunters, how is the hunting in the big second growth??

I was on my way up to some OG, mixed with some bluff and 5 heli patches when I realized that I was not going to have time to get up there and get down w/an animal by dark, so I decided to hunt the second growth. The elevation varied between 1300 and 1900'. I saw some tracks and a few trails but nothing fresh, at least nothing that looked fresh with the monsoon we had.

At the bottom of this is a 3 yo cut block. The road to the block was riddled with rubs last year, but so far nothing this year.

Here is what the timber looks like
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Sitkaspruce/PA300045.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Sitkaspruce/PA300051.jpg

Keep pounding it or move on??? I know you guys cannot produce the magic answer, but I have alway hunted either cut blocks or big Old Growth, this second growth is new to me.

Great post Steve!!!

Cheers

SS

[BlacktailStalker]

I find the deer in that second growth later in the year... but if its lower elevation I find them in it all the time.
That mid elevation stuff is hit and miss for me.... so is the high old growth and bluffs, seems they always bed and spend more time in the inevitable thick stuff to either side of it and they are almost always merely passing through the 'good stuff' (or already did during the night)
Hence why I never see them in what looks like a 'perfect spot' but rather on the way to these spots or coming out of them !

That mossy bottom stuff looks oh so sweet for chasing kittys.

I finally got out tonight, sat for a couple hours in the monsoon after skirting a good timber/regen/slash ledge, tried grunting a bit and rattling, never saw a single deer.
One set of decent buck tracks but not even any rubs showing up yet, which is weird.

[proguide66]

Busted me walking..........stalking.....slow.....very slow. I hit the can call immediately and I didn`t hear him running anymore, so he might`ve heard the call and stopped but must`ve walked off. So not spooked bad but spooked nonetheless.
I'd try and find the 'chicks' and how to get near em un busted and keep hangin with them ,let the big boys 'PP' get him shot!!!

[BTFever]

Wow this thread is the best one on the forum. Ive learned more in these few pages than in years of hunting. Im really thankful for all the wisdom being shared. This is why I love hunting Blacktails.. what a challenge but worth the reward. I know one of my spots has large bucks Ive seen a few but I always settel for a crab claw and just like that my season is over. Now I still have one tag left and I hope that doing some homework and putting time in the field will prove worth it in the end. I still havnt seen any bucks there this year so its just a matter of time before the does in that area start going into heat.

Big thanks again I feel like Im sitting around a campfire the night before a big hunt.

Ive really gained a lot of respect for big blacktails and for all you heavy hitters out there dropping them.

[xcaribooer]

Thanks for sharing this great information. now this 4000ft/nov rule, would it be safe to say it would apply to the East Harrison area as well?? that would put you almost on top of the mountains along the lake or at least well up there in alpine..I have nov 10 -12 off and was thinking of some hiking up there ... think I will make a trip over to WSS and pick up one of those quaker boy calls too.

for the record my largest blacktail (big bodied 3x3 ) was shot on the road along harrison lake (el 80m) nov 7th on a rainy ugly day.

[proguide66]

Thanks for sharing this great information. now this 4000ft/nov rule, would it be safe to say it would apply to the East Harrison area as well?? that would put you almost on top of the mountains along the lake or at least well up there in alpine..I have nov 10 -12 off and was thinking of some hiking up there ... think I will make a trip over to WSS and pick up one of those quaker boy calls too.

for the record my largest blacktail (big bodied 3x3 ) was shot on the road along harrison lake (el 80m) nov 7th on a rainy ugly day.

I wouldnt go far as to say a " 4000 ft rule"...it just happens to be where they are where I AM hunting....these deer are all over the place..from alpine to swimming in the salt chuck island to island...
The key is picking a spot , hopefully where no one else goes...find deer there...and start learning until you start nailing the BIG ones consistenty....this thread is to help out this way.( finding and nailing HUGE blacktails).
Personally , I try to find a spot where its more than likely to harbour deer wich will most likely die of old age...then the 'hunt is on'...there's no random 'picking a spot' for next weekend and hitting it , I am more after learning one spot er two...learning everything about it and who lives in it and hopefully finding the sign of a true monster deer and staying on him..hence the tips for ' book class blacktail hunting'...I 'think' I have figured out the recipe to nailing these 'phantom big deer' and am willin to share;-)...this recipe can take years to put together ( has for me) but when it does , it makes for some REAL adrenaline filled novembers!!

Good luck!!..i'm sure you will find deer in those hills , there's some big ones down there to!!!

[M@B]

this thread should almost be a sticky!

[Prowler]

November 1st tomorow boys n gurls. Bring it on!!! One thing I think worth mentioning in this thread and I think PG66 would agree, that as helpfull as these tips are, and believe me they are VERY helpfull to the BT hunter, the bottom line is unless there are true hog deer in the area you call your honey hole, you arent going to kill a true monster, no matter what. I kind of liken it to catching 50 + lb chinook in my area of the WCVI. in 23 years of guiding I have only managed 1 over 50 lbs, whereas I have freinds that guide up north and wrangle a few every season in to the boat. If thy dont call your area home, you aint gonna kill them. But with the help of PG66 I DO hope to kill the biggest baddest Blacktail in MY area.. Even if he is an old grey face heavy horned 2 point..

[proguide66]

November 1st tomorow boys n gurls. Bring it on!!! One thing I think worth mentioning in this thread and I think PG66 would agree, that as helpfull as these tips are, and believe me they are VERY helpfull to the BT hunter, the bottom line is unless there are true hog deer in the area you call your honey hole, you arent going to kill a true monster, no matter what. I kind of liken it to catching 50 + lb chinook in my area of the WCVI. in 23 years of guiding I have only managed 1 over 50 lbs, whereas I have freinds that guide up north and wrangle a few every season in to the boat. If thy dont call your area home, you aint gonna kill them. But with the help of PG66 I DO hope to kill the biggest baddest Blacktail in MY area.. Even if he is an old grey face heavy horned 2 point..

No doubt on that Ian !!....one note , anywhere there IS deer , there WILL BE a mature , dominant breeder buck....everytime!!...of course genetics will play a part in just how big a rack can come, but its cool as hell to single him out and stay on him!!...speakin of wich,HOLY SHIT its been rainning up here...musta got Sitka and the boys storm a little after them.
Snow is loading right up thick in our alpine , going to be turning into a bloodhound soon....oooo..cant wait...( still sore from my 7 hr 'recon' jaunt last weekend)

[MichaelB]

November 1st tomorow boys n gurls. Bring it on!!! One thing I think worth mentioning in this thread and I think PG66 would agree, that as helpfull as these tips are, and believe me they are VERY helpfull to the BT hunter, the bottom line is unless there are true hog deer in the area you call your honey hole, you arent going to kill a true monster, no matter what. I kind of liken it to catching 50 + lb chinook in my area of the WCVI. in 23 years of guiding I have only managed 1 over 50 lbs, whereas I have freinds that guide up north and wrangle a few every season in to the boat. If thy dont call your area home, you aint gonna kill them. But with the help of PG66 I DO hope to kill the biggest baddest Blacktail in MY area.. Even if he is an old grey face heavy horned 2 point..

Yep that's true for sure. However I think of how much land there is and how little of it is actually explored. So many of these old bruisers are dying without even seeing a human. I like to think that no matter where I am, there is a world-class animal somewhere close by. It is what keeps me going. When my alarm sounds at 4:30am....it's the thought of maybe, just maybe, today is MY day! When I'm 4 hours into a climb, and the rocks are slippery, and my legs are pumping battery acid, if I just keep going, just over that ridge, my buck awaits. Then I will be a star of the "Internets"!!!!!

[GoatGuy]

Personally , I try to find a spot where its more than likely to harbour deer wich will most likely die of old age...then the 'hunt is on'...there's no random 'picking a spot' for next weekend and hitting it , I am more after learning one spot er two...learning everything about it and who lives in it and hopefully finding the sign of a true monster deer and staying on him..hence the tips for ' book class blacktail hunting'

you hit the nail on the head, age is the biggest thing people miss. It's great to have a buck that's 3 years old with 'lots of potential' but if he's gonna get stroked as a 3 year old it don't do ya much good.

[M@B]

After reading through this thread and hearing about proguide66's discription of his "rut hole". I went back to a place that I've hunted on and off for a long time. His discription sound remarkably close to what I've seen in this area. though I've never put much time in there in the rut as I've only ever seen deer in there in august early september while they are still in velvet. I figured it was just the place where the buck went to scrape they velvet off then bugger off to where ever they go after that!
I hiked back there last night for a quick evening hunt and every other sapling for the last two kms has been beat to rat shit!! nothing I'd say from that day but, this week for sure.

Only thing is I rarley see anything in there after they shed velvet.
It's not a pressured area at all, the only signs of humans back there are my old foot prints! But there is deer sign (and buck sign) everywhere??

My guess is they are nocturnal for what ever reason in there.
Now that I've seen the distruction back there I kind of want to be back there everyday but, am I wasting my time if they only come out at night?

[GoatGuy]

After reading through this thread and hearing about proguide66's discription of his "rut hole". I went back to a place that I've hunted on and off for a long time. His discription sound remarkably close to what I've seen in this area. though I've never put much time in there in the rut as I've only ever seen deer in there in august early september while they are still in velvet. I figured it was just the place where the buck went to scrape they velvet off then bugger off to where ever they go after that!
I hiked back there last night for a quick evening hunt and every other sapling for the last two kms has been beat to rat shit!! nothing I'd say from that day but, this week for sure.

Only thing is I rarley see anything in there after they shed velvet.
It's not a pressured area at all, the only signs of humans back there are my old foot prints! But there is deer sign (and buck sign) everywhere??

My guess is they are nocturnal for what ever reason in there.
Now that I've seen the distruction back there I kind of want to be back there everyday but, am I wasting my time if they only come out at night?

they won't be far during the day if that's where they are 'at night'. I don't know bt's but in Nov any time of day is a good time of day. we shoot most of our wt's between 11-2 when everybody else is sitting in camp having lunch.

[proguide66]

After reading through this thread and hearing about proguide66's discription of his "rut hole". I went back to a place that I've hunted on and off for a long time. His discription sound remarkably close to what I've seen in this area. though I've never put much time in there in the rut as I've only ever seen deer in there in august early september while they are still in velvet. I figured it was just the place where the buck went to scrape they velvet off then bugger off to where ever they go after that!
I hiked back there last night for a quick evening hunt and every other sapling for the last two kms has been beat to rat shit!! nothing I'd say from that day but, this week for sure.

Only thing is I rarley see anything in there after they shed velvet.
It's not a pressured area at all, the only signs of humans back there are my old foot prints! But there is deer sign (and buck sign) everywhere??

My guess is they are nocturnal for what ever reason in there.
Now that I've seen the distruction back there I kind of want to be back there everyday but, am I wasting my time if they only come out at night?
This is exactly the major ' discoveries wich get me amped right up!!!...your 75% along the way....now , TRY to figure out where the most likely place to bed there( if in mountains probably straight above)...either way , figure out what time the wind changes in the am...'try to' go in there in the drk away from the rut hole but as close to the bedding spots as possible...find that trail , er trails ( they never sue the same one predictably)...DONT SHOT A SMALL ONE !!!...youll f it up..
All the rubs arent going to be from ONE buck , there's going to be a handfull....they arent big territorial things and dont make scrapes like whities and check em...they randomly beat up crap as they meander along...there's going to be hot does around there and a handfull of bucks wanting a piece er even only a snifter!!!....get some trail cams in there and try to see who your donating time on!!!!

Cant wait , this outa be good as it goes along.....dont make yourself predictable either,I made than mistake maybe 200 times before I clued in!!
( as I sit and unwrap my lates cam delivery in the mail...:mrgreen:)
good luck...PLEASE post pics of ugly blacktail beast soon!!!

[nomad]

Quote: dont make yourself predictable either,I made than mistake maybe 200 times before I clued in!!

So they will pattern us while we're trying to figure them out!? Awesome tips! I've got to get a trail cam to get some pics of the bucks in my area. I've seen a couple big guys already but hope to be able to post pics of them up to help keep this going!

cheers
Nomad

[humbolt]

Hey Pro guide I posted a picture of a big blacktail last year, I got a picture of him late December. After reading your great thread worthy of a book, I found some tall timber and bluffs near were I got the picture. It is not high in altitude at all. I was wondering if he migrated into the area or is it his home. Lots of does and thick as hell. I have never checked out the bluffs but I heard from one mushroom picker that he bumped a buck out his bed there. Any wisdom to share.

[proguide66]

Quote: dont make yourself predictable either,I made than mistake maybe 200 times before I clued in!!

So they will pattern us while we're trying to figure them out!? Awesome tips! I've got to get a trail cam to get some pics of the bucks in my area. I've seen a couple big guys already but hope to be able to post pics of them up to help keep this going!

cheers
Nomad
my countdown is 3 days..then I'm hitting it 7 days a week...MISSION TIME...:twisted:...should have some 'interesting' video soon.

[Shooter]

my countdown is 3 days..then I'm hitting it 7 days a week...MISSION TIME...:twisted:...should have some 'interesting' video soon.


Any method to your madness in waiting for exactly 3 more days? Curious in what turns the wheels in ur head.

Also are you gonna hit the same spot 7 days a week? Or do you let spots rest?

[proguide66]

Hey Pro guide I posted a picture of a big blacktail last year, I got a picture of him late December. After reading your great thread worthy of a book, I found some tall timber and bluffs near were I got the picture. It is not high in altitude at all. I was wondering if he migrated into the area or is it his home. Lots of does and thick as hell. I have never checked out the bluffs but I heard from one mushroom picker that he bumped a buck out his bed there. Any wisdom to share.
Ive killed a few hammers from following up tips...its all gained knowledge..lots of does you say ??..keep em there and try and sit on em..guarranteed to work!!!...I'll bet he's been all over those bluffs...if nothing else is working , make a BIG circle around and get above those bluffs( if you can in the dark)...wiat for the thermals to come uphill , descent down on them with a can call...real slow...in all hunting( animals/humans) whoever is higher has the advantage..thats with all species..DAMN tough to sneak uphill and hunt shit above you...Ive seen 'just' an eye with a 'base' above it peeking down at me a few times...
you gotta get that buck!!!

[proguide66]

Any method to your madness in waiting for exactly 3 more days? Curious in what turns the wheels in ur head.

Also are you gonna hit the same spot 7 days a week? Or do you let spots rest?
I'm hitting all 3 of my spots...keep goin keep goin,yadda ya..till I cut the track or get a pic of a buck that'll make you run the other way,haha..its 'just' too early and I have already racked up 6 yrs of recon so I dont have to burn myself out too early learning my spots..its tough though , feel like a cat hound in the box and no ones letting me out,:lol:
really though , if I werent VERRY familiar with my spots I'd be out there for weeks already....I'm just waitting for them to start 'perculating'..

[humbolt]

I will try to apply all your hints and tips and hopefully post a picture. You should really think about a book i would preorder one right know. Thank you for sharing all this info.

[Prowler]

I have a file on my lap top, where I cut and paste all PG66s words of wisdom. That file is starting to look like a "book" :-D

I gave up on my #1 spot after 4 trips in there and ZIP. Nada, not even a track or fresh rub, and no sightings. Went to my #2 spot where I killed the big duece last year, and lo and behold, I saw a doe on the way in, and a nice little spike I let walk in the timber up hi. Couldnt walk the timber very far as the wind was wriong, but it is lookin good. Lots of rubs, and every dirt bank on the side of the road is covered in tracks. taking my son up there tomorow for a looky loo.

[N-W-Redneck]

First of all, thank you very much PG66 for sharing all your hard earned knowledge with the rest of us. Love your YT vids also.

I would like to get your (and other experienced BT hunters) opinions on how to go about hunting an area. I've driven some of the roads through a couple of the slashes and seen a couple of tracks crossing the road here and there but nothing major. I have yet to get out and start hiking the area and I thought I would get some tips here first. Here's the area in question:

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/9803/slashes.jpg

Any thoughts?

[proguide66]

Well , if you read from the beginning of the thread there 'should be' helpfull hints to use ' where ever you go'.

I think what keeps re peating the most in the thread is LEARNING YOUR SPOT...I cant stress enough to 'keep going keep going ..on and on..
2nd is tracks...tracks for a BIG buck are key for me...I'm 'usually' aware of a big bugger before the snow flies...I look for big tracks non stop..for me all it takes is a single one time foot print ..then I KNOW he's at it and I start RELIGIOUSLY chasing does and hanging with them..

3rd , find the does...learn where they feed and bed....

4th...learn wich direction the wind goes through your spot and what time the wind changes with temp....unless its windy/stormy , the wind changes direction EVERY day..and usually at the same time...

anyway , for me er anyone else to look at a huge ariel view of land and give tips is pretty tough...thats a big chunk of realestate..
I would imagine theres some old aged deer in there somewhere !!

[todbartell]

gotta love the GPS coordinates on the bottom LOL

[Prowler]

I guess when your stuck in Powel River you gotta make the best of what you got....:-D

[brian]

Not that I have a ton of experience RedNeck I will say you gotta get out and hike to learn the area. Assuming their is good sign in the cuts, I would head to the bit that is the easiest to travel in and look for signs of passage. This will lead to trails in and out of the cuts. I've often found deer trails on the tops of clearcuts away from the dead fall and going into the morning thermal. Following these will lead you to the more major travel through fares, which will lead you to other interesting stuff. Look for the thick areas that you don't want to go in to and you'll probably find where they are bedding. From what I have found, nothing much interesting happens on the road unless you luck into it. I'm sure proguide can give you tons better advice, but what is in the first 11 pages of this thread is invaluble..

[proguide66]

Well , whats a 'book class blacktail' thread without a live ' book class blacktail'....this is a repeat but there's some shit to see for guys for knowledge.
NOW while I am hunting , I am concentrating on BASES...I have made a rule for myself that if it DOESNT have big bases its 'walking'...Bases is a VERRY solid clue to a buck being mature or even past ...I have shot a handfull of bucks that have 120 to 128 inches of bone on em but they werent REAL MATURE yet...kinda kick myself after...( just like the one in the video earlier in this thread,the one I'm talkin ect). If you have a good secret hole and want it to keep producing monsters ( and it has them) you cant shoot a true MONSTER if you shoot a 'big one'. All the TRUE BIG old bucks I have killed or been on have had nasty ass'd bases.....like the bugger below in the video...note the roman nose , deeep thick from brige to under chin..broad forhead ( cant say for sure but I am convinced a deers skull grows with age)...clues you are looking at grandpaw..
Wen you watch this one..make it full screen , pause it right away and check out the base..also , this bugger was measured 3 times the height of his ears...I 'used' to think twice the height was awesome..
http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/th_bigfork2.jpg (http://s443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/?action=view&current=bigfork2.flv)

Then on this one , check out the depth from his bridge to under his chin....verry deep= OLD BUCK= SHOOTERhttp://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/th_bigfork3.jpg (http://s443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/?action=view&current=bigfork3.flv)...
Notice as well...he just stands , stares , listens....thats what they do...stand stare and listen...whoever sees movement first wins!!!

look at the juicey mature timber in the background where I wacked him a year later...never been logged , and it was very high above my rut ole...I was there for first light with headlamp , he made it up and out of the rut hole before then..but not much before I cut his track wich was 5 minutes into seeing light...but took me 1hr to get there in the drk...
http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/DSC02257.jpg

anyway , bases are the point bein made here and depth of beak...when Bartels buck was looking at us from 22 yrds all I saw was bases on a verry wide forhead wich was instant command ' shoot that deer right now':mrgreen:

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/DSC02283.jpg

[proguide66]

Bases and beak depth!!!..........

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/bookblacktail010.jpg


Kicked myself in the ass for a while for shooting this BIG youngster...note the slendor muzzle , thin bases , narrow forhead..holy shit he'da bin a gooder!!!:???:
http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/08blacktail004.jpg


This about as good example an old buck 'bean' as yer gonna get

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/08blacktail036.jpg

He's got it all...wide forhead , broad muzzle...bases and grey/white old timer face...and NO teeth......

anyway , lets face it , how many times you see a face looking at you , ya know its a buck but not sure , he bolts , gone...look at the old timer clues and remember them!!!

actually , keep sliding this pic up and down to comapare grandpaw and junior...note the space between the bases..note the width difference of the muzzle...the 'look' of the bases...these are good things to get familair with before pullin the trigger !!

[Gilmore]

This about as good example an old buck 'bean' as yer gonna get

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/08blacktail036.jpg



Do you always shoot your mature blacktails in the front knee Mr. Pro-Guide? And if I try to shoot mine in the front knee if they are really big should I shoot both kneecaps?:mrgreen:

[proguide66]

Well , after watching you shoot that bear through the back fur I guess I keep shooting low and over compensate..haha:razz:

fortunately this buck was shot once in the chest with the all mighty 243...:mrgreen:...( the one Gate keeps bugging me to sell him)

[N-W-Redneck]

Wow PG! Your 'young-un' would make me cream my jeans! :eek:

Thanks for the replies so far. I should have given a little more detail in my OP. I keep reading on here about guys being able to "look at a map or GE image and know where to start hunting". I look at them and just scratch my head. Although I have been hunting for several years and have shot several deer, my success has been very sporadic and with mostly young bucks and does. My 'technique' has basicly been to just cover ground until I find sign and then just keep re-visiting those spots and ocasionally getting a deer. I'm not really sure what I should be looking for or doing differently.

The pic I posted above is just an area I thought might hold deer. Yes bartell, I know I left the GPS #'s in the pic. Firstly I have no idea if deer would be 'living' in that area, or just passing through or feeding in the slashes at night. These are just a few of many more roads/slashes in the same general area. Secondly, I'm not too worried about hunters from all over BC swarming to Powell River to 'jump my claim'. :mrgreen:

I am more interested in using this as an exercise in 'learning to learn' how to read an area and how to go about approaching a new spot besides just blindly tramping around and possibly blowing it for myself. How would deer use an area like this? How/when would they be traveling? Where would they go to bed down? A couple 100yds from the edge of a slash, or a couple of KM's? These are the kind of questions I can't seem to figure out. There's not a lot of old growth in this area like in PG's pics and not much change in elevation (maybe a few 100') so I'm not sure if I can apply the advice he's already given in previous posts.

What I am really looking for is the knowledge to be able to better understand BT behavior and understand the signs I see and apply them to different areas. Sorry for rambling on so long! Once again, thanks to everyone willing to share their knowlege and experience with the rest of us. It is very much appreciated.

[Gilmore]

Well , after watching you shoot that bear through the back fur I guess I keep shooting low and over compensate..haha:razz:


Touche!!:-D

[todbartell]

bases on a verry wide forhead wich was instant command ' shoot that deer right now':mrgreen:

actually it was more like SHOOT THAT DEER, SHOOT THAT DEER! with eyes like this > :shock::shock:



for the record! :smile:

[proguide66]

actually it was more like SHOOT THAT DEER, SHOOT THAT DEER! with eyes like this >



for the record!

I think my eye's were probably more like:eek:..and my butthole
kinda like:!:

'its ON' for me tomarrow.....I usually start checking on a couple known 'routes' around a couple spots about now and- as usual- a VERY large foot print that sank REAL deep into the ground showed up outta nowhere...you can tell he was 'movin' but not running..like on a purposefull mission..who knows where he is but I have a feeling he will be a sucker to the call this early..going to plant a cam tomarrow am and have a go to see 'who' it is..I'm already familiar with the area and where the girls prefer to hangout..this is it for me , 7 day a week predator...:twisted:..hopefully get some video action tomarrow er even tape some calling and a buck er two.

[JCVD]

I have been seeing way more Elk than deer of late. Saw a pretty neat fight between two 5x5's with a couple of smaller bulls milling around with the cows/calves. Lots of sign in my areas though and I bumped a Doe and fawn yesterday, so I am going to stake it out tomorrow from a natural ground blind on a bluff and see whats walking around.

[M@B]

Hey Proguide66 I'm going to have to say that you really know your sh!t when it comes to these animals! I took your advise and worked the thick nasty horrible sh!t bush around the "rut hole" I stumbled across.
about 50(ish) yards through this crap it opened up a bit and was pretty easy going. I noticed not so much trails as beaten down well abused highways and what looks to be another "rut hole" saplings everywhere beat to crap even alot of the bigger 4-6 inch trees where stripped pretty good!!
So I worked it slow and as what seems to be the norm in there, I didn't see a god damn thing.
So about 6pm I start heading out, hit the main trail, and looked down the way. About 100yards down the trail I see a BIG dark body with ears pointing straight at me! Busted. I put the bino's up and sure enough there stood one of the best Sitka BT's I have ever seen! it was getting a darker and with my heavy breathing the bino's weren't super clear. I didn't get a great look at him but he had tall eye guards and looked to be a 3x4 maybe a 4x5!! Hard to say for sure but, BIG! concidering a real good QCI BT is a heavy 2 point (brow tines are really uncommon).
I only had my bow tonight. I rarely regret not bringing my rifle but, tonight I did for sure!
I know where he lives though and the rut is just starting so I'm confident I'll get another crack at him as I didn't scare him at all!
I'm stoked about this spot now!!:D

[proguide66]

Sounds pretty exciting to me !!!!!...well , when ya think about it , if you were a deer and had a little 'more brains' than the average deer , where would you be hangin during seeing light????...right where YOU WERE !!!!
Hope you get im.....shit I cant wait for the am:cool: !!

[proguide66]

Sitka gear is now officially ' SHITka' gear.:evil:...back to
HH for me.
did my 12th hr of deer hunting thus far , ZERO deer sightings.Think I will log each hr and what I see...then it wont look so 'easy'.Be interesting to add the total hrs deer chasing it takes to get one !

[Kody94]

...did my 12th hr of deer hunting thus far , ZERO deer sightings.Think I will log each hr and what I see...then it wont look so 'easy'. Be interesting to add the total hrs deer chasing it takes to get one !

This thread is already one of the best ever, but that information would be VERY interesting. I get the definite impression that a lot of newbs think the experts are seeing and passing up bucks left and right. I think a lot of folks might be encouraged to see that it ain't easy, even for the guys that have it "figured out".

[Brizz]

What piece of Sitka gear in particular let you down? Are you talking about their core stuff?

[proguide66]

What piece of Sitka gear in particular let you down? Are you talking about their core stuff?
dunno what it is..bought it in 'John' en route up north in aug...400$ of rain soakin crap..as usual......:roll:...shitty thing is , I was absolutely soaked in the first hr...didnt even get to use sweat as an excuse..its in the drier , I''ll drag it out in a bit and see what it is...

[proguide66]

This thread is already one of the best ever, but that information would be VERY interesting. I get the definite impression that a lot of newbs think the experts are seeing and passing up bucks left and right. I think a lot of folks might be encouraged to see that it ain't easy, even for the guys that have it "figured out".

its brutal hard!!!.....shooting a HUGE one can never be easy ( well, unless you hunt in Cordova Bay)..there is deffinitely not one easy thing about it...wich makes it soo frikkin exciting when you pull it off.
I can probably cound on both hands the total buck sightings last fall.
hopefully I'm in for one soon!..like tomarrow am!:-D

[stitch]

its brutal hard!!!.....shooting a HUGE one can never be easy ( well, unless you hunt in Cordova Bay)..there is deffinitely not one easy thing about it...wich makes it soo frikkin exciting when you pull it off.
I can probably cound on both hands the total buck sightings last fall.
hopefully I'm in for one soon!..like tomarrow am!:-D

I hope you get something soon....you need a new avatar. Been watchin you play with that puppy dog for too long....need to see some bones:wink:

[BUCKJR]

Glad to hear about the sitka gear! I was just about to drop some coin so i could stay dry in our wet environment. The browning stuff just wasn't cutting it also. Off to Marks for some HH.

[BlacktailStalker]

Curious what piece you bought?
I've had HH, browning, riverswest, and the Sitka Stormfront is the best waterproof shell jacket I've ever owned and I've owned have several goretex North Face shells as well.
I had the Downpour series (sitka) and the stormfront is way better...maybe thats what you bought.

[proguide66]

guess I didnt buy the right Shit-ka this time, pulled it outta the drier doesnt say what it is , I'm wearin it on the moose commentary video though....back to HH , I look back and I'm wearin it for 90% of my btail kills...hate bein wet that early in the morning , makes you whimp out too soon.

[todbartell]

Sitka 90% jacket. I agree, not the best in real wet weather. Very comfy when not wet however!

[Gilmore]

I don't think it would have mattered what we wore this morning short of a 10x10 tarp with a hole cut in the middle for your head you were going to get wet. I was just as wet but my shirt only cost me 30 bucks! There were cats and dogs coming out of the sky in 2-11 this morning.

[Shooter]

I was just as wet but my shirt only cost me 30 bucks!



Way to twist the knife :twisted:

[JCVD]

Just wore my woolie this morning with a thermal underneath. Got wet but was warm. Seen more Elk and one deer after dark. There was a heavy 3x4 in town that looked thick and rutty. Finally starting.

[115 or bust]

Sounds weird but I often put on two layers of polar fleece over each other, as long as your not wearing any cotton underneath (including ginch) the moisture doesn't wick through to the 2nd layer, also seems to work to a lesser degree with wool. Not perfect but warm and slightly damp beats the crap out of noisy and dry anyday.

[proguide66]

Went to a new spot today ( but still verry near where I find big ones) and found a pocket of deer, mature does ect , feeding areas with fresh crap,perfect ( could tell by all the tracks).....will leave this alone for another week , no rubs er action , but I KNOW there is two big *******s maybe 8 to 1200 feet above them , so will let the bait be unmollested and come back intermitently.
17 hrs of hunting now ( not including driving)..ZERO animal sightings...full confidence its 'gonna happen' though;-)

[brian]

Proguide, these rut holes are they the product of a single bucks home range, a bunch of bucks competing, or the area of a concentration of does? In short what makes these rut holes so full of rubs?

[Frosty]

Just curious what you do when you are in your hunting area where all the deer are concentrated and nature calls?

[Gateholio]

Just curious what you do when you are in your hunting area where all the deer are concentrated and nature calls?

Poo in a bag and take it out with you. Keep it in your pack next to your lunch.

[todbartell]

chocolate puddin

[Gilmore]

Just curious what you do when you are in your hunting area where all the deer are concentrated and nature calls?

Same thing he does when he sees pretty girls...he pisses his pants.

[frenchbar]

Same thing he does when he sees pretty girls...he pisses his pants.
hahahah...:)

[BUCKJR]

Well we saw GRANDPA while heading into one of our areas today! We were SLOWLY working our way up the deactivated road to one of our areas. We were approaching a 180 degree steep wide corner that we have often seen deer feed in the past. As we make our way closer, on the upside of the corner i see a doe in the open on the edge, damn already busted by her. Up go the binos and we begin scanning the surrounding trees and bush. 10 yards from her standing in the THICKEST crap ever was another deer. All we could see was face and forhead, no bone, damn another doe. Then the lightbulb clicks! Thats no doe face. Old grey colour, SHORT THICK snout, WIDE forhead, so WIDE i still can't see bases or bone do the the thick crap its standing in. Too thick to shoot....then it turns its head....SONOFABEACH, SERIOUS BONE!! It turns and begins moving quicky away from us in the thick crap. I figure he's gonna bolt either up or down having to cross the small road either way, so i head up,my buddy heads back down. Seconds later he trotts across the road 70 yards in front of me. But just no time for a shot before hes in the bush again and gone. In the brief seconds i saw him I know hes SUPER TALL with some SERIOUS tine length. He had a rediculously large forehead and very old looking face. Hopefully we didn't spook him too bad, we got out of the in hopes to keep him in the area. Not how or where we expected to see a biggin like that, they are in the area and were more pumped than ever now!! His face and rack are just replaying in my mind now. Hope to have a pic soon!

[proguide66]

Proguide, these rut holes are they the product of a single bucks home range, a bunch of bucks competing, or the area of a concentration of does? In short what makes these rut holes so full of rubs?

They seem to be a 'common' area. Numerous bucks hit them...prooved by my trail cam in there , was nuts..big handfull of great bucks all in one intersection going all directions all hrs of the night and day...blacktail bucks dont have an 'area' to themselves , its impossible.But if there's a hot doe around and a dominant sized buck nearby he's sure to get the action.
Blacktails dont 'herd up' like other ungulates so its virtually impossible for one buck to claim a particular chunk of realestate and all the girls in it...they just go from girl to girl till they find a hotty...then tend to her as long as it takes...on to the next one...

[greybark]

Well we saw GRANDPA while heading into one of our areas today! We were SLOWLY working our way up the deactivated road to one of our areas. We were approaching a 180 degree steep wide corner that we have often seen deer feed in the past. As we make our way closer, on the upside of the corner i see a doe in the open on the edge, damn already busted by her. Up go the binos and we begin scanning the surrounding trees and bush. 10 yards from her standing in the THICKEST crap ever was another deer. All we could see was face and forhead, no bone, damn another doe. Then the lightbulb clicks! Thats no doe face. Old grey colour, SHORT THICK snout, WIDE forhead, so WIDE i still can't see bases or bone do the the thick crap its standing in. Too thick to shoot....then it turns its head....SONOFABEACH, SERIOUS BONE!! It turns and begins moving quicky away from us in the thick crap. I figure he's gonna bolt either up or down having to cross the small road either way, so i head up,my buddy heads back down. Seconds later he trotts across the road 70 yards in front of me. But just no time for a shot before hes in the bush again and gone. In the brief seconds i saw him I know hes SUPER TALL with some SERIOUS tine length. He had a rediculously large forehead and very old looking face. Hopefully we didn't spook him too bad, we got out of the in hopes to keep him in the area. Not how or where we expected to see a biggin like that, they are in the area and were more pumped than ever now!! His face and rack are just replaying in my mind now. Hope to have a pic soon!

:-D WOW , your a darn good story teller just like your Dad .:-D
Cheers and keep them coming .

[humbolt]

Well it seems someone turned the switch on in my area. I had the camera out since end of August and nothing. I took this one down because I thought the deer were not using the area. The big 4x4 is the one from last year and the 3x4 I think is his son. This camera is about 500 yrds from what pro guide has suggested to be prime blacktail country, bluffs and old growth.I hope the pictures work.
http://s1112.photobucket.com/albums/k500/humbolt1/

[BlacktailStalker]

Thats a hammer humbolt !

[humbolt]

I still have not found were these guys spend the day or any real good rub lines. I was looking today but nothing. I would like to see the big one in day light. I post more pics as they happen.

[proguide66]

I still have not found were these guys spend the day or any real good rub lines. I was looking today but nothing. I would like to see the big one in day light. I post more pics as they happen.

Holy shitski's !!!!!:eek: I'd say that boy is prime this yr or last...better git him this year!!!
Is your spot going to be getting snow er too low??...can you find the 'majority' of the girls near him?? are you getting girls on the cam as well??
When he passes the cam , is he going the same direction and not returning each time you have had a pic??
Hopefully you can 'guess' where he must have come from for the pic..and where he 'might be' going.He's obviously on the rut track and going to each pocket of girls to check on em....if you can have those girls feeding/bedding areas narrowed down you will get him!!
Its damned hard though , I had a pic of a rediculous monster and never got another...3 years ago.As well had 4 other bucks on it and only saw one of em ( he's dead from that meeting). Having pics like that keeps the positive flowin and keeps you in the bush,
good luck!!!

( ah shit , just realised I read your post wrong..thought you 'just' got the 4X4 pic) Dont forget , those genetics will be riddled all through your spot...they could be cousins , younger/older bro ect...those genes will be there forever!! or until Walmart goes up there.

ps...just added 8 hrs onto 17 hrs and finally had 4 does at 15 yards..no bucky....so , 25 hrs hunting - 4 deer sighted , and one buck track in the snow.

[proguide66]

Thats a hammer humbolt !
wonder what the chances of that bein the same buck?.his back right fork last year was weaker than the left..now this year gone to 3 up top that side?? possible?? hmm

[bruin]

Holy!!!!!!!!!

[SHACK]

Man o man, all these blacktail pics, and talk.....Im chomping at the bit to get out a bit more!! I just have to wait untill my wife pops out our son here in the next couple of days and hopefully I can get out by next week for some BT hunting!!
The agony of having the time, but having MUCH larger prioities!!! :( and :)

[humbolt]

This is the first time that I have seen him. He came up the same way that he came down. Yes there are girls using the same trail, he just comes shortly after they pass, as well as a very young three point. The area is really thick and they are traveling to feed. There are some very solid trails but I have not found any good rubs. I am going to get high tomorrow morning a work myself down the bluffs, maybe I will find something there. If not I will slowly work what I can to see were these guys are bedding. I have put up a pictures of a buck that I took a couple of years ago in the area and of the small three point.Is there any golden rule on how far they travel to bed down or is it all about lay of the land and do they prefer to be higher if they have the choice. http://s1112.photobucket.com/albums/k500/humbolt1/

[humbolt]

The area is just at the elevation that rarely gets snow, so that will not help. The interesting thing is that the one picture is at 6:30 pm before the time change so if I can get further back I might have a change to ambush him.

[luckynuts]

Hey Humbolt,

How do you like your Reconyx camera? We use them for work at our remote sites. Bloody amazing! Not limited to your 40-50 feet eh? We have pics of dudes pulling up to leases and sticking guns out the window, picking their noses all kinds of stupid shit. What model do you have and have you any issues that you would like to share? Thinking of getting one myself.

W.

[humbolt]

I have the new hyperfire 800 they are great. The only thing is that in close quarters there is a bit to much zoom on the lens, easy to adjust too though.

[proguide66]

This is the first time that I have seen him. He came up the same way that he came down. Yes there are girls using the same trail, he just comes shortly after they pass, as well as a very young three point. The area is really thick and they are traveling to feed. There are some very solid trails but I have not found any good rubs. I am going to get high tomorrow morning a work myself down the bluffs, maybe I will find something there. If not I will slowly work what I can to see were these guys are bedding. I have put up a pictures of a buck that I took a couple of years ago in the area and of the small three point.Is there any golden rule on how far they travel to bed down or is it all about lay of the land and do they prefer to be higher if they have the choice. http://s1112.photobucket.com/albums/k500/humbolt1/


shit , wish I had all the answers..:neutral:..all I can go by is my past experiences with these things.
My largest buck to date was bedding real high , actually as high as the hill would go, straight above the rut hole wich would make him around maybe 400plus above , and he went straight up cliffs in big timber.
Last fall I shot that massive 2 point in the same cliffs , tracked him from the time he left the rut hole ( wich coulda been just before seeing light) with a doe and he went straight up above the hole and I shot him in the cliffs maybe 300 up and 100 down from my largest bucks kill spot.( a decent 5X5 chased a doe infront of me straight down into the rut hole as well , just before I saw the MASSIVE tracks coming up and out)
thing is , I filmed the massive 2 point maybe 2.5 miles away from there exactly a year prior..but , it would take a deer to cover this distance no time...mystery!!!
I can say this , the VERY large bucks I have been chasing seem to rut in the same place year to year..mystery is where the hell else do they go besides where I find them? and when? all I can do is turn up the heat when I feel 'its time' and hope we bump into each other....finding the does seems to be working for me and as well sitting on them as long as i can...BUT as well not 'storm trooping' the zones too much as I have seen first hand that changes things up big time.....I'll bet you go up high and slip down with the woind in your face tipping a can call everyonce in a while will produce 'something'.

[JCVD]

You boys ever read Boyd Iverson's books? Really good info on hunting big bucks specifically. I give it a read at least twice a year to get pumped.

[The Hermit]

Okay boys, I must admit I've been pretty down in the dumps having been out pretty often in the past couple weeks without seeing much of anything and getting my ass soaking wet!

Yesterday I came across some very large tracks and huge deer shit in oldish second growth, lots of cliffs and as steep as Shale Slope on Whistler... getting too old for that shit!

This area warrants more scouting and effort! I might just target it for next season. Say a nice black bear in there last spring too!

[J_T]

Okay boys, I must admit I've been pretty down in the dumps having been out pretty often in the past couple weeks without seeing much of anything and getting my ass soaking wet!

Yesterday I came across some very large tracks and huge deer shit in oldish second growth, lots of cliffs and as steep as Shale Slope on Whistler... getting too old for that shit!

This area warrants more scouting and effort! I might just target it for next season. Say a nice black bear in there last spring too!
Yeah, I don't know how you coastal boys do it. I see pics of guys hunting in hip waders and rain gear. OMG. I'm thankful I live and hunt where the sun shines.

[steepNdeep]

Awsome post PG66!!

I used to hunt blacktails at the coast when I lived downtown Van. They are more like whiteys than muleys with their habitat & habits. Cagey THICK bush dwellers, but are definitely patternable. I shot over the back of a nice BT with my bow at 10 yards, in Chilliwack on the same trail & at the same time that I'd seen him a week before... They are fun (but tough) to hunt! Lookin' forward to your monster on teh ground... :cool:

[Kody94]

You boys ever read Boyd Iverson's books? Really good info on hunting big bucks specifically. I give it a read at least twice a year to get pumped.

Thanks for the tip...I don't get the opportunity to hunt BTs, but am always in learn mode.

I enjoyed Cameron Hanes "Bowhunting Trophy Blacktails"....but again, with no direct experience with BTs I can't really critique the quality of his advice.

[bigshooter]

I have hunted an over growen trail in the past that leads out onto the rock slopes that you describe. Due to thick bush and ground cover the road is the only access point. The area has very few 30 yard shots. I have hunted this area for 2 years now with no deer seen. The trail has scrapes from the start out to the rock bluffs with most on the bluffs. I have tried to sneek in and sit but it will be a 20 yard shot ( I will try the can call next time ). The bluffs would allow a 40 or 50 yard shot but you have to make it through the groud cover to get to it. How do you deal with thick cover.

[proguide66]

I have hunted an over growen trail in the past that leads out onto the rock slopes that you describe. Due to thick bush and ground cover the road is the only access point. The area has very few 30 yard shots. I have hunted this area for 2 years now with no deer seen. The trail has scrapes from the start out to the rock bluffs with most on the bluffs. I have tried to sneek in and sit but it will be a 20 yard shot ( I will try the can call next time ). The bluffs would allow a 40 or 50 yard shot but you have to make it through the groud cover to get to it. How do you deal with thick cover.
Read through the thread and you will see some good tips/answers to maybe help.
This thread is meant to give great tips..one major one that keeps repeating through it is LEARN YOUR AREA....keep goin , keep learning.. its taken me years to learn my few spots and I'm still learnin!

The thick cover comes with the flavor of game we're after. My average shot distance is probably 15 to 20 yrds ! ( helps the adrenaline factor big time).
i'm finally going to go head first into one of my best spots for the first time in a year tomarrow am , should be good.( thick as hell to boot)

[beanshooter]

thanks for all the great tips, learning a ton.

good luck tomorrow!

[hunter1947]

That buck on the trail camera is a cranker I hope you can find him in your dreams ,good luck filling your dreams http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[proguide66]

Big day in the filed today!!!..gilmore decided to pass on a " 20" high by 20" wide buck that had massive bases and a 3X2 rack..DOH !!!:shock:

Gatehouse /gilmore and I stayed in touch via texts all day wich made it quite fun.
I pulled a few pics after 4 days on a cam. ( follow soon)
I FINALLY found a 'mythical' trail wich I was being very frustrated tying to find for 2 years and it was a major score for future potentialo kills.
I also found two kick ass sheds that helped me be VERY confident that the massive bucks in my area are quite common and not 'flukes'.( 1 book sized)
Here's a few trail cam pics...signs pickin up , add on 6 more hrs of hiking for me , no new sightings.
http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/blacktailcam064-1.jpg

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/blacktailcam041.jpg
http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/blacktailcam035.jpg

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/blacktailcam034.jpg

Tomarrow shall try and rattle up a buck for Gatehouse.

[cainer]

what-no pics of these mythical sheds???

[deer nut]

It is a truly sick man that passes on a " 20" high by 20" wide blacktail buck that had massive bases and a 3X2 rack....I guess unless yer lucky enough to be PG66's hunting protege!

[Gilmore]

It is a truly sick man that passes on a " 20" high by 20" wide blacktail buck that had massive bases and a 3X2 rack....I guess unless yer lucky enough to be PG66's hunting protege!

After scaling a cliff to get into a new area, I wasn't sure how I was going to get myself down outa there let alone with a big buck or a small buck for that matter. More than once I asked myself if dieing was worth it! I knew the deer had to have a trail down somewhere but I couldn't find it on the way up. It took me close to 3 hours to find it on the way down and at one point decided I was going to have to go back down the face of that bluff to get home which according to my gps was about 250' straight off, when I came across it, and it's a highway.

I might be kicking my ass come December if I don't get him or his Daddy, but I only had about 30 seconds to decide and it was the right choice. If I had been anywhere else it would have been a no brainer. After seeing him I continued on hunting which was now all gravy, and found 10-12 of the most incredible rubs I have ever seen. He was a heavy 2x3 uptop with about 3 inch brows, but I don't think he was the king of that mountain so I think there are bigger and better things to come.

[Prowler]

Rode my quad up in to the area where I killed the big duece last year. On the way up, I saw a ton of rubs that werent there 2 days earlier!! Big rubs to, but I still had about 5 or 6 kms yet to ride. Had a quick look around the rubs, then carried on although, there is some good looking area there that I will go back and hunt soon. On to the top. I am climbing up and up on the old rd, and the snow is getting deeper and deeper, but no tracks at all. It is snowing as I go, and Im thinking this is good. I get to the parking spot, and start hoofin it up the very steep hill in about 4 inches of fresh powdery snow. I takes me about 45 minutes to start getting in to good area, and I finaly cut a track in the old growth Fir benches. Its a few hours old, because the snow is starting to fill them, but it is from today. It was the only track I saw all afternoon, but I am thinking maybe with the heavy snow falling and winds blowing off and on, that the deer were shut down for the afternoon... Couldnt get back in there today, but will be up there in the dark tomorow... Might hunt the bluffs above all the rubs on the rd, but am ancy to get back in to the old growth. If there isnt much sign of movement in there tomorow after 2 days of snow, then I dont know what the hell to do..:-| Dont the deer know how perfect this place is?:confused:

[GoatGuy]

After scaling a cliff to get into a new area, I wasn't sure how I was going to get myself down outa there let alone with a big buck or a small buck for that matter. More than once I asked myself if dieing was worth it! I knew the deer had to have a trail down somewhere but I couldn't find it on the way up. It took me close to 3 hours to find it on the way down and at one point decided I was going to have to go back down the face of that bluff to get home which according to my gps was about 250' straight off, when I came across it, and it's a highway.

I might be kicking my ass come December if I don't get him or his Daddy, but I only had about 30 seconds to decide and it was the right choice. If I had been anywhere else it would have been a no brainer. After seeing him I continued on hunting which was now all gravy, and found 10-12 of the most incredible rubs I have ever seen. He was a heavy 2x3 uptop with about 3 inch brows, but I don't think he was the king of that mountain so I think there are bigger and better things to come.

pretty soft for a farmer.

[proguide66]

what-no pics of these mythical sheds???


OK , here's the sheds. the set on the right are from the same buck .I found his first horn 2 yrs ago and his last yrs horn yesterday.The 'piece' of horn is from yeaterday as well , its frikkin heavy!..well all of em are.
the 5 point shed on the left is from 3 yrs ago and doubled with a conservative 16" spread would go 157.
I put an island buck that goes 126" in there with them to see the real massive size of the sheds.
I have never seen the buck on the right but hes right smack dab in the middle of my hot spot each year.

I'm hoping I dont see him cause hes not what i'm after and would be DAMNED hard to pass on!!!

The island deer has an 18" long main beam..the buck on the right had a 20" main two years ago and 22" main beam last year , but seems to be loosing up top...hes probably kinda old and gnarly now!!

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/101-1.jpg

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/104.jpg

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/102-2.jpg

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/105.jpg

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/103.jpg

[Gateholio]

I really like how you have displayed the sheds on the fallen leaves. It's a real nice fall motif. Martha Stewart would be proud.:wink:

[proguide66]

Rode my quad up in to the area where I killed the big duece last year. On the way up, I saw a ton of rubs that werent there 2 days earlier!! Big rubs to, but I still had about 5 or 6 kms yet to ride. Had a quick look around the rubs, then carried on


WHAT???....'carried on'...huh???:razz:

[proguide66]

I really like how you have displayed the sheds on the fallen leaves. It's a real nice fall motif. Martha Stewart would be proud.:wink:
Martha stewart is an X con dirt whore...:lol::lol:

[proguide66]

PS , I'm up to 37 hrs of hunting with 4 deer sightings...( as expected so far)

[M@B]

the 5 point shed on the left is from 3 yrs ago and doubled with a conservative 16" spread would go 157.
I have never seen the buck on the right but hes right smack dab in the middle of my hot spot each year.

I'm hoping I dont see him cause hes not what i'm after and would be DAMNED hard to pass on!!!


A possible 157 would be "hard to pass on" and he's not what you're after?!?!?! what the same heck are you after!! :mrgreen:

[proguide66]

A possible 157 would be "hard to pass on" and he's not what you're after?!?!?! what the same heck are you after!! :mrgreen:

haha..."the buck on the right" , meaning the 4 point on the right of the full rack,:wink:
If I ever see that buck who dropped the 5, I'll shit/shoot/shitagain.

[humbolt]

I would like to sent a thank you out to pro guide. I had an incredible morning in my rut hole. I did exactly as pro guide teachings tell us to do and success. I got into the area and slowed right down, every so often I tip the magic can. A half hour into hunt I heard a grunt( just like those silly sounding whitetail grunt calls)and another grunt. The buck came in on a fast trot head down grunting the whole way. I ended up shooting him at 10yrds. I hunt coyotes a with callers and I thought that was exciting when they come in but a big blacktail WOW.http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k500/humbolt1/P1010270.jpg

[Gateholio]

You did it! awesome! Great buck!:-D

[proguide66]

I would like to sent a thank you out to pro guide. I had an incredible morning in my rut hole. I did exactly as pro guide teachings tell us to do and success. I got into the area and slowed right down, every so often I tip the magic can. A half hour into hunt I heard a grunt( just like those silly sounding whitetail grunt calls)and another grunt. The buck came in on a fast trot head down grunting the whole way. I ended up shooting him at 10yrds. I hunt coyotes a with callers and I thought that was exciting when they come in but a big blacktail WOW.http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k500/humbolt1/P1010270.jpg


SWEEEEET !!!!...huge congrats , how did that feel???..bet you wont ever drive around lookin for anything anytime soon eh?? hehe..wicked!!! He's a heavy bugger isnt he!:cool:

[humbolt]

It was just an awesome morning. I am timber bound for sure. There is still another buck that I need to give a try. The bucks in the area seem to have that great weight. I took a big 4x4 a couple years back that has the same mass.

[proguide66]

It was just an awesome morning. I am timber bound for sure. There is still another buck that I need to give a try. The bucks in the area seem to have that great weight. I took a big 4x4 a couple years back that has the same mass.

there's always going to be great bucks in that area,you cant erase the genes there.
If you can , and seems no one else hunts there , only shoot the BIG buggers and you can try and manage the spot and not ruin it and as long as you can keep it to yourself you should be able to have this mornings experience each season !!!

[humbolt]

I fully agree I pass up everything that is not old, I know this one is a bit young but man I could resist.

[Prowler]

WHAT???....'carried on'...huh???:razz:

All of the rubs are right on the main rd, only accessable by quad, and there isnt much in the way of timber right in the area. There are some big slashes above the rd but the timber is all gone and only big xmas tree typ areas around it. I am going hunt up in the bluffs above the rd though as there is enough open area between the xmas tree type areas to hunt I think, and I should be able to get in to some good looking area, but wont know untill I get in there and check it out. It was tough to carry on past all that sign, but I was on my way to what I thought would be a better area. Didnt pan out....
Tomorow morning first thing. Ive got a feeling I will be racing a few others up in to the area though.. Its a popular spot, but I have never seen anybody else in the timber, so thats where Im headed...

[stanway]

Congrats Humbolt! Beautiful deer.

I have been following this thread religiously and it keeps getting better. :mrgreen:






.

[humbolt]

I quick note I thought the buck was younger coming into his prime but he hardly has any teeth left, the other bucks that I shot out the area have way more teeth left and are bigger. Maybe an old grandpa.

[M@B]

Or maybe he didn't brush....
Jokes asside, beauty buck Humbolt!!

[270WIN]

PS , I'm up to 37 hrs of hunting with 4 deer sightings...( as expected so far)


just wounder of thse 37 hours is this all hiking and walking or including drive time. just another queston ruffly how long doe it take you to cover one of your areas and what size is it

[proguide66]

just wounder of thse 37 hours is this all hiking and walking or including drive time. just another queston ruffly how long doe it take you to cover one of your areas and what size is it

nope , no driving included. and I can add on 16 hrs to that...53 hrs , still 4 does.
Sounds lame but its not. most my days this last week have been used up looking into new areas and putting puzzles together for two different bucks...takes a while.
soon i will be hitting my 3 well known spots and action should quadrupel.
its tough to donate time to new zones once its really rockin along in my usual haunts and I never have time to do scouting due to work for the rest of the year or theres too much snow to get in there in the winters.
I was 'on the ass' of a very large buck I have been trying for for 3 yrs now.his tracks have shown up at the exact same places finally but trying to have a collision with him with no snow is damned tough.
there's not a big population of deer where i hunt but the quality is crazy.There is also no open areas , just miles of timber..makes for one hell of a challenge but once you know they are at it its still exciting..just dont know when its going to happen but it WILL , not a doubt..and shit is it exciting when it does!!
Just this week i found 3 key trails of wich I have missed by mere metres for a few years straight..again ,keep goin , keep learnin...then it starts to come together in a big way!!

[proguide66]

Gilmores been hammering on his 'secret spot' and he's starting to figure it out. Here's some footage he has collected this week . And to think some guys say "its too thick to hunt in there" at various places...well apperantly that statement is NA with the balcktail hunters,;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPkRRvj3xmo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgJw6TDBx24

the third video is the best but taking forever to upload.

[twoSevenO]

Gilmores been hammering on his 'secret spot' and he's starting to figure it out. Here's some footage he has collected this week . And to think some guys say "its too thick to hunt in there" at various places...well apperantly that statement is NA with the balcktail hunters,;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPkRRvj3xmo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgJw6TDBx24

the third video is the best but taking forever to upload.

Ok i'm wondering how does one get to film blacktails that close. I would imagine you were sitting for a while before they moved in? If so, how long do you find that you have to stay still before they will approach an area in which you sit?

I'm hunting an area that is fairly thick as well and i haven't had much success with them walking up to me at all. About 70 yards is the best that's happened, and with it as thick as it is, no shot opportunity at all.

I'd be interested to hear some tips about how you are able to get that close and not have them spooked at all.

[proguide66]

getting that close includes pre learning the spot , trails in/out and wich way the wind will be going and at what time , where the deer are feeding ect...lots of knowledge collecting.
As well , we are fortunate to have lots of moss in these mountains , makes for predator freindly goin.
Key for me is going at a snails pace and knowing when/where its time to slow down and start calling( example , knowing where the does are going to be pre hunt). i like to take two slow steps , stand for a few , make a call , take a few steps , stand for a while ect ect...real slow..eventually you get within hearing range of a buck and their gonna come in.

Cant speak for anyone else , but the deer I am hunting do not do the same thing each day so I dont sit and wait in one spot.I have to 'work' the mountain side until i find the hot zone wich seems to change up each season.
Last fall I went 12 days trying to corral the Bartel buck then found the hot does and knew it was over in the am...without a doubt..all from gathering the puzzle pieces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k10R0TMgL-U

[Gilmore]

Ok i'm wondering how does one get to film blacktails that close. I would imagine you were sitting for a while before they moved in? If so, how long do you find that you have to stay still before they will approach an area in which you sit?

For me its knowing the area, that said I've only been into the spot I took this footage twice before but I learned alot both times. This was filmed about 100 yards from the spot I passed on a nice buck already, the whole area is covered with rubs, this years, last years and from many years ago so it is an area that has deer in it during the rut, always. I go through 2 identical areas to get to here but there is no or very little sign in them.

Wind was the next factor it was in my face all the way up to this little hole which is about 90 minutes. As soon as I got there it switched so I waited about 10 minutes and decided I needed to drop down and come in from the opposite side when it finally switched back. So I just took it slow watched where I put my feet and used my binoculars to look through the thick trees. I spotted the doe about the same time she spotted me and I froze. She stared at me for about 5 minutes and finally went back to feeding but she eventually walked off. To me does are the best bait you can find so as she went out of sight I can called and about 2 minutes later I could see brown moving through the trees, turns out it was just that little buck but it could have been the "one". Another little spike came in as well but I never got him on tape.

Moving slow and silently through the thick stuff with the wind in your face is essential but if your doing that through an area where there are no deer its pointless. Lastly a trail cam which I have just started using the past couple years is another ace up your sleeve. Its there looking 24/7 and can tell you quickly if an area is worth spending your time in. Not everyone has days on end to hunt an area hard and slow during the rut and trailcams can do alot of the legwork for you.

[270WIN]

nope , no driving included. and I can add on 16 hrs to that...53 hrs , still 4 does.
Sounds lame but its not. most my days this last week have been used up looking into new areas and putting puzzles together for two different bucks...takes a while.
soon i will be hitting my 3 well known spots and action should quadrupel.
its tough to donate time to new zones once its really rockin along in my usual haunts and I never have time to do scouting due to work for the rest of the year or theres too much snow to get in there in the winters.
I was 'on the ass' of a very large buck I have been trying for for 3 yrs now.his tracks have shown up at the exact same places finally but trying to have a collision with him with no snow is damned tough.
there's not a big population of deer where i hunt but the quality is crazy.There is also no open areas , just miles of timber..makes for one hell of a challenge but once you know they are at it its still exciting..just dont know when its going to happen but it WILL , not a doubt..and shit is it exciting when it does!!
Just this week i found 3 key trails of wich I have missed by mere metres for a few years straight..again ,keep goin , keep learnin...then it starts to come together in a big way!!

I just wondering what your gear list is when you go in looking for these bt such as frame pack ect

[115 or bust]

Thats some unusual pecker pole OG you gus have there!! Like the lichen!!!

[TheProvider]

Stressing on the moving slow part. It obvious when you look at the videos how slow you need to go, not just to hear them but see them. One second you see the deer and the next they take a couple steps and there fully hidden. Just because you go a full day hunting an don't see anything doesn't mean there wasn't deer watching and listening to you. Go slow!! You'll see, hear and learn alot. We're all on this thread cause we hunt the elusive BT, proguide an others are giving great advice. Listen and learn. Proguide asks for those gnarly buck pics but you should also post anything new you learnt or seen in your area. After all a successful hunt doesnt always mean you shoot an animal. Everytime you learn something new that will get you that much closer to getting your BT counts in my opinion as a successful hunt.

[proguide66]

those 'peckerpoles' seem to grow like that on those bouldery mountains , not much soil for em.

Better today , went to one of my ol 'faithfull' spots ( where I taped the massive two point 2 yrs ago) ..BIG hike , anyway saw a 5X5 , small 3point and 3 does.Bucks werent ready for harvest this year and happened too quick to unzip the shirt pocket and pull out the cam,especially with the deer 15 yrds away stairing at me.This doe stood long enough for me to dig it out though then started moving right on 'record'.
I'm not a big gear fan , day's check list is a kife,gun,rainpants and a pack frame or backpack with garbage bags...nothing worse than blood in an internal.
I think i prefer a frame with my shit in a watertight bag , wayy easier to get the rattling horns on/off and nowhere to soak up blood.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dXWvrE4p7U

i'm sure there's a bunch of guys out buyin can calls but dont think its 'key'...you need to be close to deer for it to work and it doesnt always get the reaction you want...but I think it helps to keep em there till you see em...of course the 'odd time' you get charged by a big buck!
i think i'm up to 70 + hrs of hunting , 7 does,2 bucks.

[madrona sh]

Great thread, I only hunt really two spots. Countless hours in them for sure.
BUT I have had no luck staying with the does for some reason.
I took a beauty 4 point on his way to bed in a bouldery bluff area at first light.
Patients and persistence is number one I guess eh.

[Prowler]

Quote from Gilmore...(Moving slow and silently through the thick stuff with the wind in your face is essential but if your doing that through an area where there are no deer its pointless)

This is the problem I think most of us have. At least I know I have it.:-D Have found several areas that look like PRIME deer habitat, but am seeing very few if any deer at all, and whats even more frustrating, is all the deer sign out on the roads and trails leading in to these spots, and then you get in there, and there is very little or no deer sign in the timber!! ARRRGGGG,, Every day, I say, "Thats it, Im throwin in the towel" and then every day I come home and punch up this thread, and cant wait to get back at it tomorow!!!!
Friggen blacktails!!!! I should just take up drinking!!!!:-D

[Gateholio]

Friggen blacktails!!!! I should just take up drinking!!!!:-D

How do you think we stay sane during hunting season?:wink:

[ryanb]

Got off from a midnight shift this morning. 8 straight days of blacktail hunting lined up, and in prime time. A quick look out at the mountains this evening before dark revealed snow 'a fallin....it's looking good boys...see you out there.

[Gilmore]

Patients and persistence is number one I guess eh.

That about sums it up!

[proguide66]

Quote from Gilmore...(Moving slow and silently through the thick stuff with the wind in your face is essential but if your doing that through an area where there are no deer its pointless)

This is the problem I think most of us have. At least I know I have it.:-D Have found several areas that look like PRIME deer habitat, but am seeing very few if any deer at all, and whats even more frustrating, is all the deer sign out on the roads and trails leading in to these spots, and then you get in there, and there is very little or no deer sign in the timber!! ARRRGGGG,, Every day, I say, "Thats it, Im throwin in the towel" and then every day I come home and punch up this thread, and cant wait to get back at it tomorow!!!!
Friggen blacktails!!!! I should just take up drinking!!!!:-D


NOOO SHIT !...my god , i'm questioning my sanity again..:-?..Ive been after a buck for a long time now...see his tracks smokin fresh under my nose , see his prints clear in soft green moss due to his pig weight , know three spots he walks regularly...never see him..never see his girfreinds...never see SHIT ! AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH

i'm going to play dirty pool and make a lick , see if I can get some girls to hang out there...:twisted:

[bigwhiteys]

Here is the aftermath of putting ProGuides advice into action here on the Island... I couldn't do the timber hiking without spooking every critter on the god damned ridge out because it was too noisy, 2nd growth dense bush....

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=58438

Not a book blacktail but a good one for where I am hunting. The biggest difference for me was getting to my spot BEFORE any light...in the pitch dark, and then slowly but surely covering ground where the sign said it was HOT. I passed up several bucks in the last few days and settled on this one this morning.

Carl

[M@B]

Following the advice from this thread has kept me locked down in one area harder than I've ever hunted one area before. It's paid off with one of my better Sitka BT's and I've 3 others about his size that I've passed on and one MONSTER that I didn't have a chance at.
I've pushed every inch of this area(I'm sure of it by now). and pattern's
I think are coming together.
Now tell me if this makes sence or not. The "Rut hole" I stumbled across seems to be right central in this whole area. and there are 5(that I know of for sure)real mature bucks that seem to have there own turf around this rut hole(put 5 coins together to form a circle and the "rut hole" would be the empty space in the center and the coins would be the bucks turf).

Now in each of these zones, the non-dominate bucks seem to have similar charactoistics to the big guy in that particular area. which leads me to think that they are brothers or offspring.

Does this make sence? do deer get that territorial?
this area has also expanded from when I first posted on this thread from a "rut hole" of a couple hundered square yards to an area of 8-10 square kms.(now I'm only really hunting the middle few kms)
That's alot of area to work to see 10 bucks and maybe 15-16 doe's.
but every buck I've seen IS big or WILL BE big in the next few years.

One other thing I've found is skeletal remains of large deer in this area.
Which brings us back to what Steve said about "a spot they will die of old age".

So I guess to summarize (and tell me what you think)
-These deer seem territoral almost to a fault.
-These areas hold fewer but better quality animals
-Does seem to be less territorial and more transient
-once you find your area work the hell out of it and learn it inside out.

Here's a link to the only buck I've pulled out of this spot so far.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=58313

Not huge by anyones standards but for a sitka he's a good'un.

[proguide66]

Shit , this keps up I'm gonna be more 'razor backed' than the old rutted out buggers Dec1....:roll:

I tracked a doe today with a big ******* on her ass and they went WAYY away from where I 'thought' SHE should be hanging out.
Most my does I KNOW of seem to be within 3 to 400square yards. I have found my bucks are traveling up to 2 miles , maybe more..but they kep hitting the SAME areas , drives me nuts...its damned hard to stick to one spot while your mind really wants to cut loose and 'spot chase'..soon as you give in and do that its shortly followed by frustration/anger/whimpingout....Ive pretty well used up my days for venturing out , now its time to stick to a spot or two and KEEP GOING....uuuugh...got 4 cams out so if I dont get 'my turn' maybe I'll get a pic of one...:-|...holy shit this is fun stuff though!!!:mrgreen:..what to do when its over again...:cry:

[Gateholio]

This last week has been a bit frustrating...Still haven't seen a buck!:mrgreen:

Only a month to go before the season closes on Dec 15. I'm taking tomorrow off, cause I am a wussy....should be back at it Monday.:-D

[blackbart]

Just got caught up on this thread, very much enjoying it. Thank-you for that. Some very good information to be had, regardless of what your preferred prey may be. I will be trying out some of the techniques on the larger cousin of your quest next week.

No doubt we will see some nice blackies in the days to come. Hopefully Gatehouse gets a little "razor backed" would look funny when combined with his normal "hair back".

May even just have to sneak out to the coast for a December hunt. More to be humiliated by the ghosts than any other reason.

Good luck fella's, keep the updates coming.

[Gilmore]

Shit , this keps up I'm gonna be more 'razor backed' than the old rutted out buggers Dec1

I hear ya. Fortunately for me I've got a few wrinkles to spare!! 8hrs through the bluffs and rockslides today. I did see 4 does and one little 4 point but only 2 single does where I was hoping to see more. They've got me fooled for the time being, I saw lots of sign of all types, tracks, shit, rubs, beds, mostly fresh but the one thing I can't find are the mature does. Both does I saw in my opinion were juveniles, not fawns but not the big mature girls the big bucks are looking for. Off to West Van tommorow for my sons hockey game, then back at her I guess. Need the gods to send us some snow, just an inch will do, then we'll know where the bear shit in the buckwheat.

[proguide66]

Well , can add on 6 hrs to my hike total...straight frikkin up..new spot and the most rediculous hike for a damned deer hunt in my life..:roll:...but holy shit what a score , saw 7 deer , 1- 3x and some shredder rubs...there's deffinitely an agresive deer with antlers up there.
I finally realised I have supernatural powers while in the woods. I can now officially control the wind direction any time I want..all i gotta do is face a direction i want to go and the wind follows me , its amazing , did it all day without even trying....

Here's a pic of a recent rub,http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/001-4.jpg

THEN , came down the mountain , filthy dirty , sweaty , pretty well exhausted , hit town for some fuel and saw this on top of a sparkling suv and a clean cut dude who looked like he hadnt hiked a yard..:-?
At first I shat myself thinking he just nailed a GODZILLA btail and taped it , he said he smoked it out near Anderson lake , said there was lots of deer.The deer are solid hybrids out there wich is around 100 km inland from where we have been pounding....still see the btail characteristics though,cool buck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qvdL9F_Uv0

i gotta work for a couple days , enough to make me sick...aaarrrggh...:evil:

[kennyj]

Thats a great buck. Is Anderson lk outside the BT zone?
kenny

[Gateholio]

Anderson Lake is quite a ways outside the B&C blacktail scoring zone.

Very nice deer, though.:-D

[proguide66]

Thats a great buck. Is Anderson lk outside the BT zone?
kenny


ya , you can find mule deer at Anderson as well and actually a good ways west as well.
the 'record books' made 'their' line through the heart of Whistler while I think they shoulda made it along the lilloette river. You have to drive maybe 45 minutes plus east to see muleys from whistler.I havent seen mule deer on either side of the lilloette river but have seen strong traits once you climb the duffy highway...deffinitely muleys at the top.
Eastern slopes o whistler/blackholm are most deffinitely blacktails...guess when they summer they are blacktails and when they migrate east of Whistler they turn into muleys for the winter until they return to whistler , haha:lol: funny though , last spring while guideing for bear I was well into the btail side of 'the line' far down river towards Harrison and saw deffinite muley/btail cross deer. their tails were strong white sides into semi white rump patch and a semi black teardrop of a tail.

Once on the mainland I think its tough to have absolute PURE strain btails , shit I even video taped a whitetail doe with a fawn wich had a blacktail few years ago right here in Pemberton!

[cainer]

I was out in the MB this morning and aft...hiked for a long time-heard way too many gunshots...that's all i needed to remind me why i don't hunt up there any more. Saw 4 does, and one unidentified-I'm guessing buck cuz he was keeping his distance.
There had to be 6 trucks parked along the side of the road on my way down, and one guy was cutting up a spiker. After being checked out by the CO.
Didn't someone say the rut was on???? I followed a Doe for a good hour, and saw nada besides her
At least I didn't get shot:)
Here's a pic of Doe overwatching from a cliff-Deer or Goat?
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr331/cainer1/879-Copy.jpg
and a little rub action
http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr331/cainer1/876-Copy.jpg

[TheProvider]

wow thats a beautiful deer forsure, make the old ticker start thumping, hard work pays off tho, soon you'll be packing out a monster :D

[Squire]

Well , can add on 6 hrs to my hike total...straight frikkin up..new spot and the most rediculous hike for a damned deer hunt in my life..:roll:...but holy shit what a score , saw 7 deer , 1- 3x and some shredder rubs...there's deffinitely an agresive deer with antlers up there.
I finally realised I have supernatural powers while in the woods. I can now officially control the wind direction any time I want..all i gotta do is face a direction i want to go and the wind follows me , its amazing , did it all day without even trying....

Here's a pic of a recent rub,http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/001-4.jpg

THEN , came down the mountain , filthy dirty , sweaty , pretty well exhausted , hit town for some fuel and saw this on top of a sparkling suv and a clean cut dude who looked like he hadnt hiked a yard..:-?
At first I shat myself thinking he just nailed a GODZILLA btail and taped it , he said he smoked it out near Anderson lake , said there was lots of deer.The deer are solid hybrids out there wich is around 100 km inland from where we have been pounding....still see the btail characteristics though,cool buck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qvdL9F_Uv0

i gotta work for a couple days , enough to make me sick...aaarrrggh...:evil:
I was hunting near these guys the day before they connected on this buck. I was hunting the higher areas that the 'bigger ones' migrate into from the high country when the snow pushes them down and saw nothing. (Next snowfall hopefully) These guys may have preserved their boots better than I did by hunting some of the lower areas but they obviously sauntered them in to the right area which I believe holds some respectable year-round residents. This whole area is a bit of an anomaly; the bucks officially aren't Blacktails but a 'Muley' over 150" is rare as hen's teeth even if they go 225 lbs plus. I have scored on a few bucks of this calibre between the summer alpine ranges and the areas that they rut and winter over the last twenty plus years and the fact they won't make anyone's 'book' won't discourage me from continuing to hunt there. The one in my avatar is one of these no-respect bucks.

[115 or bust]

Lol You and I should start a superhero's club Steve 3 days of hunting the timber and I seem to have developed the same ablity to put the wind squarely at my back. I even walked around a mountian to have it in my favour and had it switch back to my back.
lol

[chinook]

I even walked around a mountian to have it in my favour and had it switch back to my back.
lol

Should have only walked half way around the mountain, you went too far. Kidding of course, I too suffer from wind at back syndrome.

[Twobucks]

I spent most of Sunday following a BT track through a series of cliff bands, up nearly 300m of gain, and along a subalpine ridge. I think I may have moved him from below. Loads of tracks and scat criss crossing the slope below, and a few small scrapes here and there.

I thought I'd come up the ridge from the other side before light and watch the cliff bands from above as the sun comes up. Any thoughts guys?

[Gilmore]

Just got a call from the Bat phone... you'll wanna stay tuned!!:mrgreen:

[Gateholio]

I am assembling my liver for the post kill celebration...:mrgreen:

[TheProvider]

Oh Oh sounds like were in for a good story and hopefully some awesome pics :D Can't wait. Six inches of fresh snow where I was this morning in Squam, wish I would've been at my favorite spot instead of doing recon in another area. From now on commiting myself to my ridge and hopefully spot the phantom deer leaving the huge tracks

[Prowler]

Just got a call from the Bat phone... you'll wanna stay tuned!!:mrgreen:
Oh Man, Bring it!!! waiting by the lap top!!

[SHACK]

Come on now..I hate all this waiting!!!!

[Ovis17]

You know for PG to pull the pin it had to be a dandy..... Get yer popcorn ready....

[fuzzybiscuit]

There goes getting anything done the rest of this afternoon!:-D

[Th0r]

I wanted to head to MB but have to confess I was a little bit apprehensive so stayed away. I just had to listen to my little voice which said ..."wear Orange ... become Orange and leave your rattlin sticks at home":mrgreen:

[islandboy]

drum roll...........puleeze. :roll:

[Sleep Robber]

Come on I know your on here, post the @#$%^&* things, your killing us. :mrgreen:

[proguide66]

Now you cant get impatient with me cause I didnt put shit on here till now!!!!

[TheProvider]

HAHA I'm sure their celebrating an having a few cold ones. Plus they know damn well we're all anxious. Should've just driven over to Pembie to see

[proguide66]

ok , i have left my 'ultimate secret spot' alone for one year..well , maybe 5 days short of a year). Its been killing me but I figured it might be time.
Due to the importance of keeping this zone secret in the past I have used other vehicles and had the girlfreind drop me off ect ect. this am Gilmore was taking his kids to hockey in squam so I too advantage of the ride and dropped my truck in a spot for decoy ( worked good eeehhh Mike??haha)
Anyway , into the forest and dark I go.Hr and half later I'm sitting in a frikkin blizzard waiting for first seeing light.
I bumped my position up a bit and started glassing and tipping the can.Right away I see this big chunkey deer with a white face looking my way....( not knowing where my brain was) I started digging for the cam corder tucked away in my 'Shitka jacket).Start taping....hes standing maybe 100 away from me fiercly defending 3 does from 3 or 4 other bucks. I'm looking at him struggling to pass on him due to him NOT being the 160" deer Ive been after.
Taping away i tip the can again and almost got physically violated by a 4X4 and a 3...FIVE YARDS !!!!!:shock:...now I'm getting pretty amped up.
I'm looking over him and talking to myself " are you wondering?? yes you are...this means he's not the one"...hmm...struggle struggle..." are you sure??? you ARE a fan of the big gnarley old boys , are you sure???"...wellp , yup , let him go...the does had enough of me and led him up the mountain into the thick shit.
I carry on.......2 hrs in the opposite direction.

(gotta go flip the chicken back in a few)

[Gilmore]

(gotta go flip the chicken back in a few)

I've never heard it called that before!!:shock:

[TheProvider]

if I shot a monster bt today i'd be flipping the chicken too :D

[Wood butcher]

If it's going to be like this tonight. I'm going to be just hammered while I sit and wait for more

[TheProvider]

Oh I know I'm having a beer as I wait patiently, however I might as well clean the muzzleloader and grab another beer :D

[proguide66]

Anyway , off I went , blizzard , rain , wind ...frikkin gross but perfect.Hit the new zone , it sucked ass.Stoped for a 'rearrangment' of the gear and had a 'review' of the tape...followed by " WHAT WERE YOU THINKING"
????????

so , made a couple calls...decided " well , I think i know where they might be( due to yrs of gathering knowledge on EVERY trail)...made my way back and up the mountain i went( right by the infamous Bartell Buck kill zone).
I'm slipping along and tipping my can call...its sleeting and frikkin cold , I'm wet but eating and drinking each hr to not burn out ...wanting to go all day till drk if I have to)
Look up..here comes a deer..its standing staring...I'm pasnicking trying to get my lens cloth out for my binos and scope...too wet and foggy..tip the can , another deer..cant see heads...wipe the scope again , good enough.
tip the call...3rd deer comes from left...recognition..bang flop !!
ok , here's a teaser , wait till you se the video fotage!!!!!:mrgreen:

http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq155/proguide66/DSC02690.jpg

He's ugly and uneven..but REAL COOL !!!!

[steelheadSABO]

mmmmmmm deer!!!

[BUCKJR]

OHHHHH man this is good!! CANT WAIT!!!!

[TheProvider]

Beautiful deer, well worth cutting a tag for

[twoSevenO]

awesome buck!!!

Now for some tips on how you find these areas. Just random hikes? Google Earth? Heard some look for patches of deciduous trees amongst the pines and things like that.

What do you look for when you say to yourself "i think that place should have some deer. lets check it out" ??

[todbartell]

right on! great buck

243 didnt bounce off???:D

[proguide66]

right on! great buck

243 didnt bounce off???:D


I wiped out with the mighty 243 last night , had to pull out the bowling ball 300 short:oops:

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I wiped out with the mighty 243 last night , had to pull out the bowling ball 300 short:oops:

Wiped out?? You probably saw a big set of fresh Samquantch foot prints and felt under-gunned with the .243:).

Dandy buck!!
Looking forward to the video.

SSS

[TheProvider]

It was definately a blizzard up in the Squam hills this morning. 300 short definately wouldn't bounce off hehe

[Gateholio]

A .243 woudl not have been able to kill that buck.

[todbartell]

:mrgreen:..

[1/2 slam]

Awesome buck! Congratulations.

[115 or bust]

Way to go!! Nothing quite like knowing the spot eh! We need some of that white stuff here on the island!!

[Prowler]

Way to go!! Nothing quite like knowing the spot eh! We need some of that white stuff here on the island!!

Gotta get higher. Ive been in the white stuff for over a week:-D
Bunch more fresh stuff around PA this morning, it was nasty...

[hatrack]

another beauty, didn't expect anything less... Congrats!!

[Ovis17]

Very very nice. Handsome bugger. I love the short face. Can't wait to see a front shot to gauge his width.........."video...video...video...."

[Gilmore]

Must be feeling the pinch with just one tag left:shock:...whatcha ya gonna do when Mr. 132 comes walking out at you??

Sweet Jesus I'm starting to sound like Jelvis