Mulw deer population????

[Mountain Hunter]

Here's the readers digest for the 2009/10 flights for mule deer in the EK:


"Snow conditions were poor in Creston but excellent in the East Kootenay during surveys. We
observed 146 mule deer in MUs 4-06 and 4-07 (88 does, 36 fawns, 17 class II bucks and 5 class
III bucks) in 222 minutes survey time. Buck ratios of 23:100 does (90% CI: 3-44) were estimated
for these MUs using the mule deer model. We observed 238 mule deer in MU 4-21 (110 does,
34 fawns, 40 class II bucks and 8 class III bucks) in 155 minutes survey time and estimated ratios
of 40 bucks:100 does (CI: 29-46). A total of 183 does, 58 fawns, 30 class II bucks and 17 class III
bucks were observed in MU 4-22. Survey time was also 155 minutes. Estimated buck ratios
were 32:100 does (CI: 16-2. We observed the most mule deer in MU 4-02 (183 does, 58
fawns, 30 class II bucks and 17 class III bucks) in 325 minutes survey time, although buck ratios
were low (20:100 does [CI: 12-28]). Overall buck ratios for East Kootenay MU’s combined were
29:100 does (CI: 14-44). Estimated fawn ratios were slightly higher in the Creston area (45
fawns:100 does) than the East Kootenay (29-34 fawns:100 does), although confidence intervals
overlapped for all areas.
."


Readers digest for last December's flights... done by some Stent guy?.......

"We observed 842 mule deer, including 514 does, 157 fawns, 34 ≥4-point bucks and 115 <4-point
bucks over 12 hours and 45 minutes survey time. Raw buck:doe ratios (no sightability correction)
were 33:100 in MUs 4-06 and 4-07 combined (90% CI: 22-39), 23:100 in MU 4-21 (CI: 17-30), 41:100
in MU 4-02 (CI: 34-4, 45:100 in MU 4-22 (CI: 37-52) and 5:100 in MU 4-03 (CI: 1-9). There was a
significant decrease in buck ratios from 2009/10 ratios in MU 4-21, while buck ratios increased
significantly in MU 4-02 and 4-22, although 2009/10 buck ratios were likely underestimated in the
former survey as it occurred in late December and early January when bucks are usually wintering
in bachelor groups in remote habitat and more difficult to detect. Similarly MUs 4-03, 4-06 and 4-07
were surveyed post-rut in 2010 and bucks could be underrepresented in samples from these MUs."

It's great that there is an ongoing effort to survey mule deer populations in the EK and I'm sure they covered a lot of ground during those surveys. BUT isn't it sad that they only observed ~34 bucks similar to these two over those 2 seasons of surveys? I didn't see any Class IV bucks in the summaries you provided (although the lead buck in the pic might not squeak into the Class IV range).....

Predators may be high but there's more to it than that as others have eluded to here.

[dino]

Is it possible that the wildlife guys ever make mistakes like the DFO guys do when they count fish and predict returns? I really dont know how wildlife counts work, I just trust what the government prints but because I also work for the government so I am a little sceptical.

[6616]

Well it doesn't help a population thats is already in trouble, that combined with an over abundance of predators has us in trouble.

Too much gloom and doom, the sky is not falling.....!

[hunter1947]

I never liked what the management did when they opened up a season two years ago for any mule deer buck here in the EK my opinion the have to go back to 4 point only buck next year except for juniors or 65+ in my area and I spent 5 months in the bush this year and saw very fer mule deer in fact only a hand full..

[Savage Man]

[QUOTE=6616;1020720]Toot much gloom and doom, the sky is not falling.....![/QUOT

No but its close and we had better do something now

[Fisher-Dude]

No but its close and we had better do something now

Get out and volunteer on a winter range enhancement project then, if you want to do something now. Bitching about a hunting season that has no effect on mule deer populations isn't doing anything to help the deer, but it does turn people off who would otherwise get involved and help out where it's really needed. You need to set goals and priorities that are going to have a positive result, rather than continue to shoot yourself in the foot with your misconceptions about what needs to be done.

[coach]

From the whitetail thread:

I say let nature do its thing I myself don't care for MD I would eat WT over MD any day like I said let nature do its thing..

I never liked what the management did when they opened up a season two years ago for any mule deer buck here in the EK my opinion the have to go back to 4 point only buck next year except for juniors or 65+ in my area and I spent 5 months in the bush this year and saw very fer mule deer in fact only a hand full..

When I first read this, I thought you were being consistently inconsistent. Then I read a little more on the science of the situation and realized that more young bucks on the winter range makes it harder on the mature bucks. Combine this with the large numbers of whitetail and elk, and maybe you can get what you want..

Before anyone jumps on me, I'm sure Wayne doesn't really hope for the extinction of mule deer. I hate to pick on his posts as I respect so much of what he put up on here and the fact he is so willing to help other hunters - especially young ones. The problem with these discussions, is that it's so easy to post before you think. Others that respect people's opinions can easily get caught up in the rhetoric.

[happyhunter]

I never liked what the management did when they opened up a season two years ago for any mule deer buck here in the EK my opinion the have to go back to 4 point only buck next year except for juniors or 65+ in my area and I spent 5 months in the bush this year and saw very fer mule deer in fact only a hand full..

Your doing it wrong wayne! You need to be using a plane if u want to see muleys, apparently. Or you need to spend more time in the bush! Or your just a bad hunter if you don't see the muleys! Kidding of course.

We know how much time wayne spends out there, and if he is only seeing a few muleys then maybe thats something to think about.

Somebody said you shouldn't believe everything people say, but if everybody from the east koots are saying the same thing about the mule deer populations hurting, even if everybody is grossly exaggerating the state of things, there is still a sliver of truth there and its worth thinking about. Not everyone who says the mule deer are low is a shitty hunter, or doesnt get out enough, or only road hunts. I've heard the same thing from the road hunters, the trappers, guys that work in the bush, the guides, the newbies, the experienced guys that get their deer every year, the guys who scout year round, the hardcores, the high country hunters, day trippers, the sleeping on the mountain for a week guys... I think the opinions of so many should not be dismissed so easily as gossip.

[Andrews]

Get out and volunteer on a winter range enhancement project then, if you want to do something now. Bitching about a hunting season that has no effect on mule deer populations isn't doing anything to help the deer, but it does turn people off who would otherwise get involved and help out where it's really needed. You need to set goals and priorities that are going to have a positive result, rather than continue to shoot yourself in the foot with your misconceptions about what needs to be done.

I'd love to know where to volunteer for such programs - no sarcasm, can anyone provide a link? FD - I assume they also have them in region 8 where you are?

[Savage Man]

[QUOTE=Fisher-Dude;1020782]Get out and volunteer on a winter range enhancement project then, if you want to do something now. Bitching about a hunting season that has no effect on mule deer populations isn't doing anything to help the deer, but it does turn people off who would otherwise get involved and help out where it's really needed. You need to set goals and priorities that are going to have a positive result, rather than continue to shoot yourself in the foot with your misconceptions about what needs to be done.[/ QUOTE]
WOW !!!! I had a long answer for ya but I give up !!!! I know that I don't know anything and don't spend anytime in the bush in the east kootenays ( 40 days atleast for this FALL season and more to come) and don't talk to alot of other hard core hunters in the area that share my views(HUNDREDS) and I know that many of you are far more knowledgeable than myself and many people who have hunted here for many many years . Oh AND HOW DO YOU KNOW I HAVN'T BEEN INVOLVED IN THESE PROJECTS.