southern interior mule deer strategy?

[GoatGuy]

is it fair that bioligist manage on a macro level and individuals see on a micro level?

today I can go out and see several last year fawns that are sucking wind and drive a few kms and find a wintering group that are not ...the group up high being the ones that are not.

I am sure that all the numbers would suggest everything is fine mostly because they cancel out each other...but I don't know if it is fine to see these starving fawns...all the deer in the stacks...smeared on the highway ect.

last year in my little world wolves were hard on the little buggers as well..

this past fall I didn't see many young bucks..not like I used to anyway.

I did see some larger old bucks.

If on a micro scale this herd is at carrying capacity...which is variable depending on weather, predators, and our manipulation of the range(cows,logging,access) than it has ceased being as productive and thus will have less animals available for harvest.

on a micro scale I am not confident in how the herd has been managed.

Fair? Maybe not, but how do you go about micro managing every population when you don't know?

You're probably right.

Carrying capacity does vary. Generally biologists would like to see populations managed well below carrying capacity, say 60-70% (depends on the species). Of course they don't have the tools to do that. In some states where they have $ they manage wt's down at 40-60% of carrying capacity to maintain productivity. Anyways, if we were able to do that it would keep the critters more productive (twins, antler growth, breeding, body condition) and the population also rebounds far more quickly after a severe winter.

Hunters like to see lots of critters where the opposite result is true. Reduced antler growth, twinning, body condition and huge winter kills in moderate winters.

I believe the current hunting seasons in regions 3,4,8 are pretty much fail-safe in terms of the potential of over-harvest. We're just following or perhaps even encouraging nature's ups and downs. We've become accustomed to seeing a pile of deer and believe that's what is best or we compare an area that had a huge burn 30 years ago to an area that is now full of pecker poles.

As you know populations are controlled through the antlerless or female component. That's how you control things but that's also where fear lies.

[boxhitch]

and the beat goes on.......

[sausage lover]

So what more can we kill in Region 3??? You aren't seriously thinking that a Spike/Fork moose is a sure way to put meat in the freezer now are ya? The spike/fork season is a freakin joke. It is a money grab, easy way to sell tags with very very very very very few moose being harvested. I'm confident if it went the way of the dodo, there would be very little hunter outcry.

Region 3 has a 2 mule deer limit only one of which can be a buck. Hmmm, means the locals here have to rely on LEH if they want a second deer in the freezer. In reality, Region 5 wants their cake and eat it too. They want a buck for the freezer and then hold their 2nd tag for a trophy buck. It caters to the pseudo trophy hunter that still wants to be a meat hunter. In the age of declining hunter numbers, should we let the small minority within the trophy hunter ranks rule the day????

Again I'll say it. Region 5 is a simple fix. Stop killing too many bucks and you will get your buck to doe ratios back up. 2 mule deer limit only one of which maybe a buck. The pseudo trophy hunter has to $hit or get off the pot. Either he is a trophy hunter and has to pass on the dinks and risk eating tag soup or else he is a meat hunter and should be happy to put a nice tastey small buck in the freezer.

I would agree with this.....simple really!

[dino]

I would agree with this.....simple really!

Except that hunter numbers are growing by leaps and bounds and there is a only small percentage of hunters that are trophy hunters.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Just this Dana: We just had a discussion at region recently about White Tailed Deer (WTD) management in the EK and some people seem reluctant to step up the harvest levels, but at the same time they're wondering where all the Mule Deer (MD) went. Truth is we have just as many deer as we ever had, it's just that now they're mostly WTD....!

I just want to remind everyone that WTD and MD are competitive species to a large extent, you can only have so many deer in a region depending on carrying capacity. They can be WTD or MD or a combination, but the overall total is fixed by carrying capacity. Trouble is WTD are the better competitor and will eventually displace MD if given half a chance. This is already happening in Region 4E and 8 and could easily happen in Regions 4W, 3 and 5 given enough time.

The success of any Mule Deer Management Stratgey depends to some extent on aggressive harvest stratgies for WTD. Please consider the possibility of an any deer management stratgey for WTD similar to what Alberta and Saskatchewan have.

I sure miss Andy in moments like this.

[Fisher-Dude]

I sure miss Andy in moments like this.

You're not the only one. Besides us, wildlife misses him too.

[Seeker]

I sure miss Andy in moments like this.

SSS, is this Andy from Golden?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

SSS, is this Andy from Golden?

Yes. Andy Pezderic.

[horshur]

and the beat goes on.......

actually a lot has changed since..truth is things are never as good as they seem at the time . There are some once productive areas that are not resilient from a hard winter and wolf predation as should be expected. I am sure basic aspects of the range are primarily to blame for predation has abated considerably. Personally I will blame winter range it is all fine to protect it(critical designation) but if there is no renewal?????
On the micro level Tolko logged some fir blocks locally. They have come up in rose, red willow, snowberry ect....the deer are enjoying the better food, the fawns are fat, there is twinning and fawns are carrying weight through to spring(good body score) less obvious predation by wolves, cougar and coyote. Lots of carry over of young bucks post season. (personaly observed) There is fair bit of hunting pressure through Nov and whining about the lack of big bucks.

[HarryToolips]

I would agree with this.....simple really!

Everything except him saying that there would be little outcry if we got rid of the GOS spike fork moose...I believe there would be a lot of outcry, it's a very popular season that everyone can participate in, and I for one would be pissed if they ever went to LEH only, in regions 3, 4, or 8...