Whitetail doe season... is it time to take end it?

[Fisher-Dude]

As a avid RH born and raised in the Okanagan I was blessed to be a part of the glory days. Hunting not only fed us growing up, it taught us to appreciate the outdoors.
Through my 40 plus years I got to know many of the best hunters this Valley had to offer, there children carried the knowledge on and built from it. Some of the best
woodsmen, without the use of Google Earth, Bait Piles, Trail Cameras, and fancy rifles were able to successfully fill their tags every season. The skills that they have
can't be debated.
As I read these threads I can't believe how many so called experts can continue to think that the WT deer are still holding their own. These comments have no strength
with me. Why? Well when I bump into many of the old Knuckle Daggers they all have the same story. "IT'S THE SHITS OUT THERE!" This pretty much can be confirmed
by all those uncut tags floating around. I would tend to believe those individuals, than some guy posting his stories from outside the area. Most don't even have a clue what
good populations are.
Opportunity to do shit, is still Shit. If we don't start to see the (Sorry DANA) The Big Picture it going to be too late. Yes the seasons are only part of the problem, this is
the one time that I would have to agree with the sheep. Still harvest will continue to decline and I don't think we can afford to keep increasing the opportunity to fudge the numbers.
Our whole system needs a Reboot, starting with the Inventory System and Accountability. It's the only way to make a big change.

Again it's a game of give and take, if we can't learn to give, there be no take....

WT harvest is increasing, not decreasing. That's a sure sign of an increasing population.

Perhaps the knuckle draggers need to change tactics if they have uncut tags and think it's the shits out there.

[labguy]

WT harvest is increasing, not decreasing. That's a sure sign of an increasing population.

Perhaps the knuckle draggers need to change tactics if they have uncut tags and think it's the shits out there.

"a sure sign of increasing population?????" This is close to being the most assanine comment I've read of your more than 19,000 posts.

Of course the harvest is increasing because the doe seasons are increasing. You can now shoot anything that moves.

If your happy shooting a doe standing 50 yards off the road with her fawn by her sid, then your idea of quality hunting is a lot different than mine.

Whatever credibility you have enjoyed on this site is eroding rapidly with idiotic comments like that.......

[Wild one]

WT harvest is increasing, not decreasing. That's a sure sign of an increasing population.

Perhaps the knuckle draggers need to change tactics if they have uncut tags and think it's the shits out there.

Increasing harvest can be a factor of increased population but increasex harvest can happen for other reasons. Now provideing count numbers backing this theory is another story

For a man who preaches science you would know that coming to a conclusion on one piece of data (especially one that can be effected by multiple factors) often leads to biased theories lacking factual evidence to support them

Basically bad science

I don’t know about knuckle draggers but I can say some hunters are changing tactics. Still lots that are far behind but no doubt hunters are slowing adapting

[blacklab]

They want to keep reg3 a MD stronghold.....if anyone uses common sense, and think about it for a moment, of course higher WT numbers will create more preds, just how more prime habitat = more food for ungulates and usually population growth, it would make sense that more food for preds would = more preds, which will = more prey on MD as well....as well as competition on winter range...I sure don't want the WT eradicated, I just want to see a healthy balanced ecosystem....I personally have killed 4 WT in the last 3 years in region 3- and I continue to see the same amount of WT year after year, in the same habitat, and the same numbers of WT on winter range....I think a 3 week doe season on a critter that by then is used to a month of hunting pressure by then is just fine, the majority of them adapt...

They are doing a great job of keeping region a mule deer stronghold. It's so good they are reducing the bag limit.

[blacklab]

I'm still waiting for an answer to the questions I asked way back at post #191.

[Wild one]

They are doing a great job of keeping region a mule deer stronghold. It's so good they are reducing the bag limit.

Good start there is a reason majorly of North America does not have the liberal harvest opurtunity on MD BC has

Now if only BC would restrict MD LEH doe harvest in populations that are low and stopped applying them in populations that lack sufficient counts to show if the population is stable or strong enough to support them

Applying max harvest opurtunity management when lacking sufficient data on our populations in BC is not a wise practice

Then add in ratos in some MUs not meeting BCs 20%min( when much of North America run min goals of 25-35 and BC running ratios on the low end of the spectrum to start)and they are left to run under same management or a bio is said to have an anti agenda making slight changes when found in his region.

The point of settling Min goals is to try and stay above this number not hover at or below this goal. Not meeting minimum goals is call for adjusting harvest under most management

Yes we have habitat and predator issues but start adding in management issues no wonder we have a mess


But let’s worry about keeping max opurtunity

[Wild one]

I'm still waiting for an answer to the questions I asked way back at post #191.

Because there is no hard factual evidence of positive results. Some MD populations are seeing slight increase, some declining, and others stable because of this alone he cannot provide conclusive evidence. He can only assume WT COULD be a factor in some MD populations increasing.

Just as I can give an example of this management plan failing else where and asked if he could provide an example of proven success of this management plan.

[blacklab]

So white tail numbers in region 3 are having a negative affect on mule deer numbers but not having an affect in regions 4,5, 7 or 8.
I'm thinking that if you killed off about 30,000 white tail in region 8 there should be a huge increase in the mule deer population.
People say it's working well in region 3.

[Wild one]

Then the old Fawn wither survival rates for MD that on good years are 45% and on winter kill years can drop as low as 1%

This is something that is commonly left out when preaching recruitment being good in BC when winter fawn to doe ratios are taken

[Wild one]

So white tail numbers in region 3 are having a negative affect on mule deer numbers but not having an affect in regions 4,5, 7 or 8.
I'm thinking that if you killed off about 30,000 white tail in region 8 there should be a huge increase in the mule deer population.
People say it's working well in region 3.

No factual evidence of it working only faith in the theory. Results of MD populations vary throughout all regions and MUs

Theories of WT harvest having effects in some areas exist but this is not factual the factors have not been studied to truly come to a conclusion

It’s just like elk have been proven in many studies to have the largest impact on MD populations when it comes to ungulates.

This is the other species increaseing in numbers and range in BC. Oddly enough they are decreasing in the EK where MD are increasing

This factor is being ignored by FD claims of WT harvest helping MD numbers in the EK

BC really does need funding to improve management or even support its present management