2016-2018 Hunting & Trapping Regulations- EXTENSION!

[russm86]

Moose and elk had an aggregate bag limit in region 4 back in the day. Seemed to work quite well with generous GOS and healthy game populations. So, thanks for the reminder.

You'll have to quote some science that indicates that hunter harvest in primarily buck only seasons, many of which have antler restrictions, is having an effect on mule deer populations. Because right now, that science doesn't exist. Buck harvest has negligible effect on deer populations over the long term - even buck:doe ratios lower than 10:100 produce greater than 90% pregnancy rates, and we manage harvest for a conservative 20:100 in BC. Worry about fawn recruitment, not buck harvest, as fawn recruitment determines populations.

We can take away hunting opportunity thinking we are saving "x" species from some issue, but unless we apply a valid scientific reason for it, we may as well bandage our finger when we break our leg, thinking we're doing some good.

You'd do better to do the following: contact your MLA, demand predator control, habitat enhancement, and funding for fish and wildlife. At least you'll see an effect on game populations if you get one or more to happen, rather than shutting down your hunting opportunity and continuing to see smaller game populations.

My thoughts were if they did this and managed 2 separate species as individuals it may actually increase hunting opportunities. Right now they limit the provincial bag limit to 3 for both species combined as they want to conserve the mule deer populations however they are trying to open up more opportunities for whitetails. If they separate them into different bag limits they could probably allow 2 of each separate species, thus 4 deer in total but yet still limiting the # of mule deer taken. It would also potentially help reduce some out-of-region hunting pressure on mulies by giving more opportunity in local regions.

I don't have numbers at hand on the mulie populations but if they weren't concerned about them in some areas like region 4 and 5 then in region 5 they wouldn't have gone from 2 bucks per year to 1 per year and now to the rut being shut down. I believe region 4 has seen some changes as well to where it is now 4 point only with no any buck seasons. If they reduced mule deer to 2 provincially you wouldn't have the guys who are too lazy to target white tails jumping from region to region to get all 3 deer (all mulies), for instance many guys seem to harvest mule deer from region 3, 8, and 5 to get all mulies and then harvest no whitetails even though the ministry seems to want more whitetails harvested.

If you allowed 2 of each species provincially people could still harvest their local and 1 out of region muley as well as 2 whitetails thus spreading the hunting pressure more evenly over both species instead of being focused mostly only on muley as it seems now and you would actually be able to harvest an extra deer over what you can now. Also would help to increase whitetail harvest as the ministry is trying to get. Sounds like a win win for everyone to me...

[Piperdown]

Sounds like the region 6-04 reduction is for leh only, no talk of closing the GOS and no reduction of tags to the guide/outfitters!!!!!!!!!

[Fisher-Dude]

My thoughts were if they did this and managed 2 separate species as individuals it may actually increase hunting opportunities. Right now they limit the provincial bag limit to 3 for both species combined as they want to conserve the mule deer populations however they are trying to open up more opportunities for whitetails. If they separate them into different bag limits they could probably allow 2 of each separate species, thus 4 deer in total but yet still limiting the # of mule deer taken. It would also potentially help reduce some out-of-region hunting pressure on mulies by giving more opportunity in local regions.

I don't have numbers at hand on the mulie populations but if they weren't concerned about them in some areas like region 4 and 5 then in region 5 they wouldn't have gone from 2 bucks per year to 1 per year and now to the rut being shut down. I believe region 4 has seen some changes as well to where it is now 4 point only with no any buck seasons. If they reduced mule deer to 2 provincially you wouldn't have the guys who are too lazy to target white tails jumping from region to region to get all 3 deer (all mulies), for instance many guys seem to harvest mule deer from region 3, 8, and 5 to get all mulies and then harvest no whitetails even though the ministry seems to want more whitetails harvested.

If you allowed 2 of each species provincially people could still harvest their local and 1 out of region muley as well as 2 whitetails thus spreading the hunting pressure more evenly over both species instead of being focused mostly only on muley as it seems now and you would actually be able to harvest an extra deer over what you can now. Also would help to increase whitetail harvest as the ministry is trying to get. Sounds like a win win for everyone to me...

Region 5 deer bag limit was done for social reasons - there was a concerted effort by a certain guide outfitting organization to curtail resident hunter harvest and participation in order to sell "quality hunts" to non-residents. In fact, one of their proposals was to put mule deer bucks on LEH for residents! The rationale was that they wanted more class III and IV bucks - grow them for guide outfitters. It had squat to do with mule deer populations, as the 19.3:100 buck to doe ratio was statistically consistent with the 20:100 provincial target.

Region 4 any buck was also closed for social reasons. The bios admitted that it would do nothing for deer populations, but that was "what the locals wanted," so that's what they got.

I think someone who travels and hunts 3 separate regions hard enough to be able to bag 3 mule deer is far from lazy - I'd go so far as to say he's damned well dedicated to hunting them! There's no scientific reason to curtail his harvest, and your only reason (a social one) is because you think "he's too lazy to target whitetails."

Stats also don't back up your assertion that a large number of hunters shoot 3 mule deer annually - going back to your region 5 example, it was shown that only 1% to 1.5% of hunters bagged a second mule deer in their own region when it was allowed.

Biologists I've dealt with haven't said that they want people to "target whitetails" and shift harvest away from mule deer. In all the meetings with bios and FHAC discussions I've been at, they all say the same thing: they have opened more whitetail opportunities because it is sustainable and whitetails are resilient to higher harvest rates. In fact, when a participant at one of the meetings I was at mentioned the "pressure shift," the bios were quick to correct him and say that was not the intention of the increased WT seasons.

[russm86]

Region 5 deer bag limit was done for social reasons - there was a concerted effort by a certain guide outfitting organization to curtail resident hunter harvest and participation in order to sell "quality hunts" to non-residents. In fact, one of their proposals was to put mule deer bucks on LEH for residents! The rationale was that they wanted more class III and IV bucks - grow them for guide outfitters. It had squat to do with mule deer populations, as the 19.3:100 buck to doe ratio was statistically consistent with the 20:100 provincial target.

Region 4 any buck was also closed for social reasons. The bios admitted that it would do nothing for deer populations, but that was "what the locals wanted," so that's what they got.

I think someone who travels and hunts 3 separate regions hard enough to be able to bag 3 mule deer is far from lazy - I'd go so far as to say he's damned well dedicated to hunting them! There's no scientific reason to curtail his harvest, and your only reason (a social one) is because you think "he's too lazy to target whitetails."

Stats also don't back up your assertion that a large number of hunters shoot 3 mule deer annually - going back to your region 5 example, it was shown that only 1% to 1.5% of hunters bagged a second mule deer in their own region when it was allowed.

Biologists I've dealt with haven't said that they want people to "target whitetails" and shift harvest away from mule deer. In all the meetings with bios and FHAC discussions I've been at, they all say the same thing: they have opened more whitetail opportunities because it is sustainable and whitetails are resilient to higher harvest rates. In fact, when a participant at one of the meetings I was at mentioned the "pressure shift," the bios were quick to correct him and say that was not the intention of the increased WT seasons.

Thanks for the info, was not aware of those reasons for reducing the mule deer seasons, the info I have received about wanting hunters to target white tails has been second hand so not sure the validity but I hear it all the time. Where do you get all your info from?

[Fisher-Dude]

Thanks for the info, was not aware of those reasons for reducing the mule deer seasons, the info I have received about wanting hunters to target white tails has been second hand so not sure the validity but I hear it all the time. Where do you get all your info from?

Being involved with my club and serving on various committees gives me reams of information and studies from bios. The folks on the BCWF Wildlife Committee have been really good at sharing info and keeping us informed about not only what is happening in our own regions, but also what the issues are in other regions.

[BCWF]

Dont forget to get your input heard on this .

[Down South]

So much good information here, and yet nobody is ready or willing to act on it, such a shame