Five Point Bull Elk

[Fisher-Dude]

Different times. At that time, less roads for access, less game calls to fool animals, with open sites on firearms. Most elk hunting was done well after the rut and focused more on a migration pattern. Transitional range was less densely populated, no high fences on farmland and no internet for information gathering. Very different.

Actually, we drove right thru the middle of what is now 8-09's OK Mountain Park, in our truck, with scoped rifles. Access was better than it is today for the area in question.

[Fisher-Dude]

It would allow for a robust herd that is balanced in both age and sex which puts more legal bulls out overall.
The later seasons and 3 point restriction back in the day was a major factor in hammering down the overall health of our Reg 8 herd.
If memory serves harvest plummeted to a handful of elk being legally harvested in the OK area for a number of years.
Of that harvest almost all were 3 points with an occasional 5 point.
(Ironically half of that harvest was from the same 3 or 4 guys every year)

Anyway, that's the first few things that jump out at me at first blush.

Nothing to do whatsoever with elk harvest. 100% to do with 100 years of fire suppression and no suitable habitat.

The surge in the elk population did not correlate to the implementation of the 6 point/shortened season. The surge in population happened many years afterwards, and it's no coincidence that it was in the years immediately after the fires of 2003.

What's wrong with guys harvesting 3 and 5 point elk? Are they lesser hunters for doing so?

[Jetboater]

I self reported 8 years ago as I shot the 5 point fighting the 6 point. Took a 110 dollar fine cancelled my tag and recovered the animal. Delivered to the co in inveremere he said I was the first person to self report that year with 100 5 points shot. co will view you as an honest person who made a mistake if you report it. But a poacher if you don't.

[Mikey Rafiki]

I've only seen one mature 300+ inch 5 pointer in my life. All of those 5 points up there are just younger bulls, no different than they are here in the 6 point GOS.

[Fisher-Dude]

1977/78 regulations:

Elk, 3 pt (8-1, 8-9, 8-10) Sep 1 - Nov 30

Elk, 3 pt (8-4 to 8-7) Sep 22 - Nov 15

We used to manage by MU. Might be worth the extra ink and paper to do that again.

[Husky7mm]

The result of too many years of 6 point only season.

Should only be huge 5 pointers in the east koots then, right? Wrong , every year few more 6's slip though the army's of hunters and become even bigger a and smarter six plus pointers the following. Plus a bunch of new 6 pointers joining the population. I found the elk hunting just got a little better every year. A very conservative antlerless harvest helps a ton to grow the population quick. Too bad they have to keep ranchers happy too....
IMO Anything less than a six point season puts a huge pressure on young dumb 2 1/2 year old bulls that respond to any bugle or cow call. Changing it would create a very high harvest followed by slow years, instead of good steady elk hunting for those that put in some effort. The six point gene is in most bulls even as a spike. Spikes do plenty of breeding believe it or not. The 6 point gene will not be wiped out.
Shouldn't be any moose with 3 on the brow any more either.......
IMO the with an increase in liberal seasons the system is gonna fall apart. A great big harvest followed by crappy hunting, and then more leh.

[Argali]

co in inveremere he said I was the first person to self report that year with 100 5 points shot. t.

Good on you for self-reporting but if what the CO is true about 100 5-points being show, then clearly there is a major problem. Either the rule is just too difficult, or a significant portion of hunters are too lax in trying to implement the rule. In practise, it is difficult to count the points unless the elk is in the open and not moving much. In areas with stable elk populations, it might be worth considering a 5-point rule instead of 6-point because the difference between a 3-4 point and a 5-point is a lot more obvious than between a 5- and 6- point

In terms of what FisherDude was saying, there is nothing wrong with killing 3 or 5 point elk, unless you kill all of them. In a small area like 8-09 with a small elk herd and a large and increasingly experienced hunter population, it is not that difficult to harvest nearly all the bulls in the herd if you allow rifle hunting during the rut. Elk become fairly predictable during the rut and once those patterns are established, harvesting them becomes easier, as Ourea pointed out by mentioning that the same 3-4 guys got an elk every year. Now suppose there are 30-40 guys with the same experience and talent - not many bulls from a small herd would survive if any bull was fair game.

An any-bull season would be more easily sustained if rifle hunting was eliminated during the rut, and the season ran from say Oct. 20 to Nov. 15 ... after the rut, when the bulls have done their duty, left the cows, and are usually holed up alone in thickets, not moving around much, and not very responsive to calls. They are harder to find, harder to hunt, and it would be more difficult to wipe out all the bulls. You would have to stop the season prior to when heavy snows push them out of their holes toward winter range.

You could open such a season for any-bull. The bulk of the harvest would probably be the younger 3-5 point bulls, and the total bull elk harvest would probably sustainably exceed the current harvest under the 6-point season.

However, I would certainly prefer a Sept 6-point hunt than an early-Nov 3-point hunt by a wide margin.

[Fisher-Dude]

The six point gene is in most bulls even as a spike.

Link to data?

[Husky7mm]

You left as fisher dude and came back as goat guy , lol
no data just the way it is, like mulies. Most become 4 pointers and will remain 4 points until they die. Genes Are passed on through the female also.

[Fisher-Dude]

The number of elk hunters in region 8 declined by 60.3% since the implementation of the 6 point season in 1999.

Average 1990 - 1998 = 1252 hunters
Average 1999 - 2006 = 498 hunters

The season change was good for killing off hunters.