Five Point Bull Elk

[358mag]

They manage elk numbers through a 3 pts restriction? They don't have antlerless hunting?

Lots of antlerless elk hunting resident hunting LEH in northern Alberta , buddy + his crew always get a draw .

[Stone Sheep Steve]

We'll never know what kind of seasons that the elk can sustain since we don't have enough money for proper inventories. The bios always have to err on the side of caution.

Welcome to wildlife management in BC.

SSS

[J_T]

We'll never know what kind of seasons that the elk can sustain since we don't have enough money for proper inventories. The bios always have to err on the side of caution.

Welcome to wildlife management in BC.

SSS

Well, that does seem to be the case in Reg 8. In Reg 4 we continue to introduce new opportunities and revise existing opportunities on an ongoing basis to find the balance between objectives and sustainability. Everyone has bought into the idea of dynamic management. Give something a try, if it doesn't go according to predictions, adjust. But adjust quickly.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Well, that does seem to be the case in Reg 8. In Reg 4 we continue to introduce new opportunities and revise existing opportunities on an ongoing basis to find the balance between objectives and sustainability. Everyone has bought into the idea of dynamic management. Give something a try, if it doesn't go according to predictions, adjust. But adjust quickly.

Region 4 certainly has had more 'practical' inventory work in recent years than over here in Region 8. We seem to spend limited resources counting moose....finding more moose than previous counts....but it has resulted in decreased opportunity.
We might just have to take on your dynamic approach and see what happens.

SSS

[Fisher-Dude]

Region 4 certainly has had more 'practical' inventory work in recent years than over here in Region 8. We seem to spend limited resources counting moose....finding more moose than previous counts....but it has resulted in decreased opportunity.
We might just have to take on your dynamic approach and see what happens.

SSS

Yes, we double our moose population and then cut the season in half. Maybe ignorance is bliss?

At least the non-residents can still go shoot as many bulls as they did before the residents had their season chopped in half. That's all that matters in BC, a viable guide-outfitter industry.

[Fisher-Dude]

Not even close. Not hardly worth a response.

As long as bow hunters can shoot any bull you don't care what the vast majority of hunters are allowed to shoot. Well, I should rephrase that, because you do care what the rest of the hunters are allowed to shoot: as long as a rifle hunter doesn't shoot a 4 point, you're happy because a bow guy can shoot it.

Too bad there aren't more organizations looking out for the interests of ALL hunters.

[Fisher-Dude]

My wish list...

Habitat enhancement. Valid
All season any bull archery seasons. Social?
Habitat enhancement. Valid
Vehicle/Road restrictions. Social
Habitat enhancement. Valid
Time of day quad restrictions. (No ATVs before 9am and from 4pm till dark) Uber-social
Habitat enhancement. Valid
$10 per head bounty on wolves Unless you kill 80% of wolves every year, put the $10 toward something meaningful, like habitat
Habitat enhancement Valid
$1000 per head bounty on poachers Vaild

And FD here are my links... http://www.beyondbakedbeans.org/custom/L1010087.JPG And here are yours... http://eyebeam.org/sites/default/fil...s/sausage.jpeg LOL J/K LOL

My comments in bold.

Social regulations are what have killed off hunters and cheapened the value of wildlife in government's eyes for the past 40 years. All we have now after this 40 year experiment is less game and groups like yours calling for more social regulations.

A better solution is to make more game.

[J_T]

As long as bow hunters can shoot any bull you don't care what the vast majority of hunters are allowed to shoot. Well, I should rephrase that, because you do care what the rest of the hunters are allowed to shoot: as long as a rifle hunter doesn't shoot a 4 point, you're happy because a bow guy can shoot it.

Too bad there aren't more organizations looking out for the interests of ALL hunters.

Yawn. I'm confused, I'm out there now, hunting a 6 pt, just like everyone else.

[GoatGuy]

Well, that does seem to be the case in Reg 8. In Reg 4 we continue to introduce new opportunities and revise existing opportunities on an ongoing basis to find the balance between objectives and sustainability. Everyone has bought into the idea of dynamic management. Give something a try, if it doesn't go according to predictions, adjust. But adjust quickly.

Region 4 isn't managing by objectives, it's managing when minimums are triggered.

The antlerless elk is entirely for homesteader elk, pushed exclusively by the ranching community. Local hunters have always thought more elk better, even if they lived on winter range 12 months/year. The Minister held on to the decision until the very last minute to close the GOS. The ranchers still do not support the regulatory suite and at this point one of the most famous loudmouths is also pushing to have her land removed from the ALR so it can be chopped up and sold to Alberta. Oddly enough it is being supported by the elected officials. This direction will certainly have a long lasting effect on wildlife populations as the red plate cash flow will be a huge incentive for landowners to move their property out of large holdings and into a subdivision.

Your managers recognize they are managing entirely for social reasons and that it has next to nothing to do with sustainability or objectives. The road closures which were implemented for sheep and as refugia for elk when there was a 3 pts season have now become a social restriction.

Just got done hunting in the EK the other week - saw two resident sheep hunters, the first residents we've seen in there for over 5 years. The area is loaded with elk and I bet there hasn't been a resident elk hunter in there for over 10 years. There were a couple guys that hunted one drainage in about 30 kms. All this on a 6 pts season. Guess the objective is to shoot 0 elk in the area.

Goat leh which are chopped up into a hundred sub-units, and managed downward to ensure harvest never occurs.

Just like the 4 pts mule deer season in Region 4. What a joke. Everyone in the branch recognizes it is entirely social, and will not do a thing for mule deer. It also has nothing to do with the management objectives or sustainability.

We can even go back a few years and find inflated population estimates for multiple species to increase quota and consistent and consecutive outfitter over-harvest.


Given the abundance of wildlife populations, particularly elk, region 4 has some of the most tragic management in BC, second only to the Peace. Just like the rest of the province, you are managing socially and only to minimums.

The big difference between region 4 and 8 on elk is region 8 has a fraction of the elk, and very few ag conflicts. If we had 5,000 elk sitting on farmers fields eating their crops I'm sure there would be wayyyyy more cow harvested and a spike season as well.

BC is so far behind the rest of North America it isn't even funny. No money, no management.

[J_T]

Region 4 isn't managing by objectives, it's managing when minimums are triggered.

The antlerless elk is entirely for homesteader elk, pushed exclusively by the ranching community. Local hunters have always thought more elk better, even if they lived on winter range 12 months/year. The Minister held on to the decision until the very last minute to close the GOS. The ranchers still do not support the regulatory suite and at this point one of the most famous loudmouths is also pushing to have her land removed from the ALR so it can be chopped up and sold to Alberta. Oddly enough it is being supported by the elected officials. This direction will certainly have a long lasting effect on wildlife populations as the red plate cash flow will be a huge incentive for landowners to move their property out of large holdings and into a subdivision.

Your managers recognize they are managing entirely for social reasons and that it has next to nothing to do with sustainability or objectives. The road closures which were implemented for sheep and as refugia for elk when there was a 3 pts season have now become a social restriction.

Just got done hunting in the EK the other week - saw two resident sheep hunters, the first residents we've seen in there for over 5 years. The area is loaded with elk and I bet there hasn't been a resident elk hunter in there for over 10 years. There were a couple guys that hunted one drainage in about 30 kms. All this on a 6 pts season. Guess the objective is to shoot 0 elk in the area.

Goat leh which are chopped up into a hundred sub-units, and managed downward to ensure harvest never occurs.

Just like the 4 pts mule deer season in Region 4. What a joke. Everyone in the branch recognizes it is entirely social, and will not do a thing for mule deer. It also has nothing to do with the management objectives or sustainability.

We can even go back a few years and find inflated population estimates for multiple species to increase quota and consistent and consecutive outfitter over-harvest.


Given the abundance of wildlife populations, particularly elk, region 4 has some of the most tragic management in BC, second only to the Peace. Just like the rest of the province, you are managing socially and only to minimums.

The big difference between region 4 and 8 on elk is region 8 has a fraction of the elk, and very few ag conflicts. If we had 5,000 elk sitting on farmers fields eating their crops I'm sure there would be wayyyyy more cow harvested and a spike season as well.

BC is so far behind the rest of North America it isn't even funny. No money, no management.

Your comment about the number of elk between Reg 4 and Reg 8 is the key here. This conversation started because there was discussion of so many elk in Reg 8 that a 3pt season should be implemented. "reg 8 has a fraction of the elk".

Whether we're managing by objective or minimum trigger is almost irrelevant. Unless you define both. At least in Reg 4 we're creating new opportunity based on some criteria. And adjusting. Of course there is a social pressure. I guess that's life. To many people worried about themselves. And too bad about the 5000 elk in the fields, 5 years ago, there was 15000. I was pushing for 30,000. It doesn't take long to bring the population down. To someone's target objective. But I/we as hunters don't make the rules, we operate within them. At least we have an opportunity here for input.

I'm not sure about your reference to your recent hunt unless it's just to admit that you too see better hunting in the EK than Reg 8. I agree. Not seeing other hunters in the area you choose to hunt is great.