Buying more arrows - tips for a newbie??

[Rectifier]

Hey guys,

Been shooting happily for a few weeks with my 6 arrows that came with my bow... but the time has come to stop walking to the butt so often, I need more arrows!

What I have here is Carbon Force X-Weave STL 200's. They seem like a good arrow, but I don't know anything, really. They have a crappy runout (0.006") but I don't think that matters much to a hunter?

It seems that different brand arrows will group differently (Found a Cabela's at the range that was exactly my length - but it always falls below my groups...) so, should I just get more STL 200s or is there a better arrow brand that I should go with?

I heard a lot of guys like Gold Tips and they are a little cheaper than the STL 200s with the same runout.

Where do people buy arrows from? And is it a good idea to get a fletching jig and fletch myself or buy with fletches on? I already had to glue a vane back on one of my arrows, so maybe a good idea to get into fletching?

[Bowzone_Mikey]

get your arrows at Boormans in new west ...

Take your bow in and they should be able to decide what your best arrow for your set up will be

and yes .. differant brands and models will group differantly

[hardnocks]

Whats your draw length? how long are your arrows? If you have a short draw the run out don`t matter much.

[Rectifier]

Yeah, Boormans was where I got my bow... a bit of a pain to get there as they are in an awkward location for me and I can only really go on Thurs. nights... so I was wondering if there was somewhere good to order online. USA is OK as I have a mail service in Pt. Roberts I use often.

Draw length 26" and the arrows are cut to 27", blazer vanes.

If I get more of the same arrows, cut the same, should they group with the ones I have? Or is there batch variability?

[Bow Walker]

With an arrow length like that you can get the "crappy run-out" shafts and it won't matter at all.

What is your bows draw weight?

Assuming it's in the 55 to 60 lbs range, and you want to buy GT shafts, I'd get the Expedition Hunters (cheap ones) in 5575. When they're cut down to your length the straightness improves dramatically.

In fact - if your draw weight is 60 lbs (or less) - you could get the lighter 3555's and by cutting them down you will increase the spine of the shafts so that you can safely shoot them from your bow.

Lighter shafts, 85 grain points, Blazer vanes all add up to faster arrow speed.

Just thinking out loud here.

[Rectifier]

The bow is 60# but I have it turned down to 50 for now. Moving up to ~55 this week I think and hopefully 60 soon. 100 grain points for now because thats what I have.

If I shoot lighter shafts isn't there more risk of breakage if I hit something unmovable like say a tree?

Dumb question about 85 grains but wouldn't they not hit as hard? And what does that do to the balance (as I said I know nothing about arrows) - does it affect anything?

[Bow Walker]

Stop by the Gold Tip site and do some reading. It'll help you a lot where arrow construction is concerned. http://www.goldtip.com/

My bows are 60lb bows, which I have the limbs maxed out...they come in at 61 and 62 lbs. My arrow are 5575's cut down to 26.75" which (on my hunting bow) puts the broadhead right in the middle of the arrow shelf - very safe.

My draw length is 28.3" The reason that I can get away with such short arrow shafts is due to the type of arrow rest that I use. It's an APA Safari Twister, which mounts almost 3 full inches behind the Berger hole in the riser.

Because my shafts are so short I could drop down to the lighter 3555's and still have plenty of spine/stiffness for the bow weight. Indeed, I have some arrow shafts that are 3555's and they shoot just fine.

Using 85 or 100 grain points won't affect you P.O.I. a noticeable amount, even out to 45 or 50 yards. The lighter point/tip or the lighter spine won't make the arrow any more fragile than any other arrow. T

The downrange kinetic energy of a lighter arrow is definitely less than a heavier weight arrow but it has as much to do with arrow speed as it does with arrow weight. A lighter arrow will fly a lot faster and therefore hit harder than a slower arrow of the same weight.

A slower and heavier arrow will carry more kinetic energy at shorter distances. By that I mean that at the same distance, of say 20 yards, and using the same bow weight (arrow spied) to propel that arrow, the heavier arrow will hit harder and carry more KE than the lighter arrow.

Clear as mud? Yeah, it was for me (in the beginning) as well. Do some "playing" around with different arrow configurations using the "Build Your Own Arrow" program while you're visiting GT's website.

Pay attention to the "Front Of Center" of the arrows that you build. It is generally accepted that, for hunting, an FOC of between 8% and 12% works the best. Target arrows can go as high as 15%, which helps in longer range shooting.

There are a lot of variables to take into consideration when building/assembling arrows and I've found that it is best to build arrows for each different bow and/or shooter - not just build arrows because you happen to have a bow that shoots 55lbs and you have a draw length of 27 inches. That's why arrows built specifically for you and your shooting style will always fly better than "off-the-shelf" arrows. or generically built arrows.


Oh - and there are NO dumb questions - just so you know.

[Rectifier]

Wow, thanks for writing that essay very informative and answers a lot of my questions.

I understand that there is the same amount of energy in any arrow fired from a particular bow (draw length x poundage = x joules of energy) and speed changes based on weight.

I just heard somewhere that heavier arrows had better ability to penetrate bone due to the way they load up on impact, true?

Since the lighter shafts are the same price, what is the actual advantage to going 3555? Flatter trajectory?


And in the end, if arrows you make yourself are better, should I get a fletching jig, shafts and vanes, make a dozen arrows and start learning about this stuff? Or should I focus on my shooting with arrows built by someone who knows what they're doing (like Boorman's) before I start messing around adding more variables...

[hardnocks]

for sure you need a fletching jig for repears. but i would just buy arrows ready made for a while . just learn to shoot first. their will be plenty of time to make arrows later.

[Bow Walker]

Wow, thanks for writing that essay very informative and answers a lot of my questions.

I understand that there is the same amount of energy in any arrow fired from a particular bow (draw length x poundage = x joules of energy) and speed changes based on weight.

I just heard somewhere that heavier arrows had better ability to penetrate bone due to the way they load up on impact, true?

Since the lighter shafts are the same price, what is the actual advantage to going 3555? Flatter trajectory?


And in the end, if arrows you make yourself are better, should I get a fletching jig, shafts and vanes, make a dozen arrows and start learning about this stuff? Or should I focus on my shooting with arrows built by someone who knows what they're doing (like Boorman's) before I start messing around adding more variables...

No problem, we all start out at the beginning and progress from there.

Heavier arrows, don't necessarily penetrate better, or bust up bone any better, but they do carry a bit more energy (inertia) downrange. It takes more "umph" to over come their static inertia, plus it also takes more to stop them on the other end of the flight.

The type of broadhead coupled with the type of arrow that is used will have more to do with breaking bone than the mass of the arrow. A thicker arrow shaft made out of wood (for instance) won't penetrate as far as a slimmer arrow shaft made from carbon fiber.

Put a broadhead, with a Trocar tip on it, on the end of that slimmer carbon shaft and it will almost always be a complete pass-thru on either a deer or a bear.

Sorry to be so long-winded again.

I shoot lighter arrows, tipped with Slick Trick broadheads (they have the trocar tip as do Muzzy's and a bunch of others) and have shot deer from as close as 10 yards to as far as 37 yards away. Every arrow has been a complete pass-thru on the animals. The only bone the arrows encountered was some rib bones and they did nothing appreciable to slow the arrow down.

Now as I said earlier, given the same bow weight, a heavier arrow will penetrate further than a lighter arrow - but the further down range that heavier arrow gets, the less velocity it carries and therefore the less kinetic energy it carries along with that declining velocity.

It's a trade-off. Speed versus penetration versus kinetic energy. All the Traditional shooters swear by their heavier arrows. But, their effective kill range is limited to something less than 25 yards.

Advantage(s) of lighter arrows? More speed, plus a flatter trajectory. More speed usually carries more KE and slimmer profile arrows will penetrate deeper. But don't go for arrows that are not the proper spine for your setup. The lighter arrow still has to fly correctly and spine, coupled with front-of-center balance is everything in arrow flight.

The terms "Porpoising" and "Fish Tailing" are used to describe unwanted characteristics of arrow flight. They indicate that something is out of kilter with the dynamics of the arrow.

An arrow with a poor FOC (or the wrong spine) can appear (in flight) as if the back end is trying to over take and pass the front end. It appears as if it is trying to fly sideways before it corrects itself. It won't hit the target square - it'll hit the target with the back end of the arrow laying either to the right or to the left. That's "fish tailing".

Same thing with Porpoising, only the arrow will impact the target at an upward or a downward angle.

Getting a fletching jig? I'd say YES, definitely, the more you learn the better shooter you'll become. But start by reading all you can find about arrow building, and arrow flight, and arrow dynamics. Find out what makes for good arrow flight as well as what makes for poor arrow flight.

Then start by buying a dozen shafts, and getting them cut to length before you leave the shop. Then only building about three arrows at a time. You'll soon learn what works best out of your setup.

Sorry to be so long-winded - again.