Check out this crossbow.

[brotherjack]

It may be funny looking, but WOW, check out the spec's on this amazing little piece of engineering. I wonder if it's legal in Canada?

http://www.swisscrossbow.ch/html/twinbow_II.asp

[Fred]

That thing seems to be based on the parralell limb system like the new Mathews bows. Fred

[J_T]

Yup, sure looks like a "bow" to me. What is wrong with that picture. You could post that pic on the rifle section of this site and ask guys to check out the specs on that new rifle and it would be more appropriate.

I have difficulty with that being called a bow.

JT

[brotherjack]

I have difficulty with that being called a bow.

That's why it's called a "crossbow".

But seriously, I'm curious how come? Just because it shoots fast, and has a non-traditional design? If you made a compound bow using the same/similar kind of 4way limb system, I'd expect you could push the same kind of obscene FPS - would you call something like that a bow?

I'm really not trying to pick on ya, I'm honestly curious as to why. I've shot both stickbow and crossbow, and to me, a bow is a bow - putting one on the end of a stick with a trigger doesn't change much in my view (you still have trajectory/yardage estimation issues, consistency of draw issues, arrow issues, fletching issues, broadhead issues, and all the other issues stick/compound bow shooters have to deal with - plus a few of it's own because the high poundage/short powerstroke amplifies any accuracy affecting issues).

[brotherjack]

That thing seems to be based on the parralell limb system like the new Mathews bows. Fred

It's actualy like having two bows mountd parallel to each other, and using a cats-cradle looking string setup to use the force of both bows to launch a single arrow. I'm guessing that having 4 limbs/cams instead of 2 makes it possible for a tremendously higher forward travel rate of the serving, without having to increase the poundage of the bow too much (if any).

I'd be REAL curious to see how accurate it is though - pushing an arrow 0 to 370FPS in 8 inches of powerstroke just seems to me like it would cause any minor imperfection in the arrow(s) to be amplified into accuracy affecting problems...

But regardless, this is a groundbreaking innovation in bow/crossbow design, and I'm jazzed to see it.

[J_T]

BrotherJ,

Visually: does this look like a bow?

Fundamentally: Shoulder held, trigger release, scope sights, not held under the archer's own power. Does it sound like a bow?

Morally: Archery seasons are often implemented at times when animals are most vulnerable. Fair chase suggests that restrictions be placed on the hunter. Thus archery - suggesting short range. Defining fair chase we must understand the animals zone of comfort (20 yards, or 100 yards). Many hunters will agree that even an accurate crossbow should not be shot at an animal beyond 40 yards, but that isn't always the case.

From a treestand, with a compound or a trad bow, the shooter, at some point, must come to draw (and hold it), this provides the animal with an opportunity to see or hear the motion and move out (fair chase). With a crossbow, success is increased because you can sit with the crossrifle loaded reducing movement and noise.

Range is an issue, and while a crossrifle might be accurate at 100 yards, is it effective? How many hunters know the difference between accuracy and effectiveness?

Another factor (IMHO) is that with an increase in archery only seasons, rifle hunters will see the crossbow as a quick way to increase hunting time/seasons. Buying a crossbow 2 days before the season is not acceptable. Data from Cranbrook this past September supports that rifle hunters (without bowhunting experience) do purchase crossbows just prior to the season. The risk is an increase in wounding and recovery loss.

JT

[BlacktailStalker]

The bolt is propelled by a cord/ string. That classifys it as a crossbow. If it was a pin, igniting a charge etc than its a gun. Just looks like a damn sweet crossbow thats all. Personally I dont use a crossbow. A rifle is great if you just want to find the animal and get a shot off, a bow is great for mastering or fine tuning (or lucking out) every detail to get close enough for a shot. A crossbow is in between so I'd rather do one or the other. Again, personally.Good Luck to all.

[brotherjack]

Visually: does this look like a bow?

Fundamentally: Shoulder held, trigger release, scope sights, not held under the archer's own power. Does it sound like a bow?

Morally: Archery seasons are often implemented at times when animals are most vulnerable. Fair chase suggests that restrictions be placed on the hunter. Thus archery - suggesting short range. Defining fair chase we must understand the animals zone of comfort (20 yards, or 100 yards). Many hunters will agree that even an accurate crossbow should not be shot at an animal beyond 40 yards, but that isn't always the case.

From a treestand, with a compound or a trad bow, the shooter, at some point, must come to draw (and hold it), this provides the animal with an opportunity to see or hear the motion and move out (fair chase). With a crossbow, success is increased because you can sit with the crossrifle loaded reducing movement and noise.

Range is an issue, and while a crossrifle might be accurate at 100 yards, is it effective? How many hunters know the difference between accuracy and effectiveness?

Another factor (IMHO) is that with an increase in archery only seasons, rifle hunters will see the crossbow as a quick way to increase hunting time/seasons. Buying a crossbow 2 days before the season is not acceptable. Data from Cranbrook this past September supports that rifle hunters (without bowhunting experience) do purchase crossbows just prior to the season. The risk is an increase in wounding and recovery loss.

JT

Again, I'm really not trying to have an argument here, even though I guess it looks like it - I'm really honestly trying to understand where you're coming from. I really don't even disagree with you on the fact that the issues you raise are problems - I just disagree that the crossbow has anything to do with those problems.

Visually: would a u-pull-it designed on the same principal (opposed limbs/4 cam) resemble a bow any more than this one does? It would not - so does that make any design that deviates from the traditional or compound bow disqualified?

Fundamentally: advanced sighting systems and triggers can and are used on compound bow's by tons of shooters, so the only difference here is that it is not held under the archer's own power and shoulder held (is shoulder held considered an advantage?).

Morally: A crossbow has just as short a range (if not a little shorter) than a good compound bow. There is not a hunting crossbow maker that I am aware of, that does not explicitly state that the maximum hunting range of their product is 40 yards, and recommend that the vast majority of successful shots are taken at 20 yards or less and suggest you limit your hunting to those ranges. By the same token, there are plenty of guys with compound bows that are out in the field trying 60 or more yard shots at critters. So morally, the real issue with range, is anyone with any bow (cross or not) trying to shoot critters at too long a range is the issue - not the weapon with which they're trying to do so (because neither can exeed the other in terms of effective range - though this one at 370FPS might add a few yards or so to the 'real' effective range of the weapon in question - assuming it doesn't have accuracy issues at that range becuase of 16 inch arrows on an 8 inch powerstroke).

As to movement/fair chase - lots of u-pull-it shooters use one of the many tent-blind or shoot-through camo net setups to cover their movement from the critter, even a treestand puts you out of the immediate sight of the critter, so I don't think this really counts as a big thing in favour of the crossbow - though I do agree, there are some situations in which this is an advantage to the crossbow shooter. (though in my own experience, every critter I've ever shot with a crossbow, I was sitting in plain sight of the critter, and had to move significantly to get the bow up and aimed for a shot - and I've spooked more critters than I've shot because of that very fact).

Also, as to rifle guys who buy a crossbow 2 days before hunting season, how are they worse than the guy who buys a CanadianTire compund bow the same day because of the either-sex archery season? Or the compound bow shooter who dusts his bow off a day or two before the season starts, shoots a couple sets of 3 in the backyard at 30 yards and then hits the bush opening day? I've met way more of them than I have guys who shoot year round. Again, I think the issue here, is the attitude/actions of certain people, not the weapon in question.

And just food for thought - in Cranbrook, the majorty (if not the vast majority) of the rifle hunters around here just get in a truck, drive till they see antlers, and jump out and shoot (the elk hunters vary this formula with jumping out of the truck to blow a bugle every few kilometers). You really think guys with those kinds of skills are in any danger of getting close enough to even wound a critter with a weapon they have no experience with and little understanding of? Not saying it doesn't/hasn't happened, but in general, I would be pretty surprised if the wounding rate went up this year - other than in direct porportion to the larger number of guys in the bush with a bow because of the either-sex seasion, be the bow cross or otherwise...

Anyway...

[zedex]

I dont know about crossbows. At least with a traditional compound or recurve you need some skill and strength to shoot it. As well as being very quiet and being very close to the animal. With crossbows any joe can pick one up, and as long as you know how to shoot a gun your able to bag an animal. Seems kind of unfair being able to hunt in the bow only season with a crossbow.

[Fred]

Zedex, If that is what you believe then ask BCHunter about crossbows. I bought his new Barnett RC150 off of him because he had so much trouble shooting it. By the way, Danny, can I please have the original pins for the sight, this 22 scope sucks! Fred