LEH Thoughts - "The grass is greener on the other side"

[mod7rem]

This will be an unpopular opinion but if we accept that wildlife belongs to all BC residents then non hunters have as much right to save an animal as we have to kill one.

Years ago after some successful deer kills by me, my anti-hunting buddy got a little snotty because nobody had consulted him if it was ok for me to kill “our” deer. I told him that he’s entitled to kill 3 deer a year in BC just like everyone else, and his 3 were still out there.

Interestingly, I find that most anti-hunters don’t know much about wildlife. Can’t identify many different animals, don’t where/how they live, don’t seek them out, don’t know if populations are healthy or not. Wildlife have almost no role in their lives, but they sure don’t want anybody killing them.

[KodiakHntr]

This past fall I know three hunters that drew seven tags between them and never went hunting for any of the draws, nor did they bother buying any licences. So that was three moose draws, one elk and three goat draws down the tubes...and that is just the tip of the iceberg with unused LEH draws. Meanwhile the guys that would buy the tags and go hunting can't get drawn. And this is not the first time these guys have drawn LEH tags and not bothered to buy the tags and go hunting.

My understanding is that stuff is taken into account already when it comes to tags allocated. If everyone who drew a tag went, there would be fewer tags allocated in the first place.

ie, if they figure there is a target of 5 animals to be harvested, and harvest success is typically 50% in that unit, then they add 5 authorizations. If 30% of hunters who draw don’t go, they add 3 more authorizations. Now it’s at 13 tags, to accomplish 5 animals for the target harvest number.
Now 13 guys get to daydream about a hunt in the fall.

So a few guys not going, doesn’t mean less opportunity, just more allocations to achieve the target harvest number.

[hunterdon]

Great points Retiredguy. I also know of several guys who put in for a bucket load of draws and get drawn on many simply not to go on the hunt or buy a tag. There's your answer guys for why so many of you keep putting in for years and never get drawn. This happens a lot!!!

[BCBRAD]

Some people put in for an LEH and if they don't get drawn they don't hunt that season. For those, that are serious about the hunt then there should be a requirement that you first purchase a hunting license, and include lic# on the LEH form. This may create more opportunities.

[LBM]

Years ago after some successful deer kills by me, my anti-hunting buddy got a little snotty because nobody had consulted him if it was ok for me to kill “our” deer. I told him that he’s entitled to kill 3 deer a year in BC just like everyone else, and his 3 were still out there.

Interestingly, I find that most anti-hunters don’t know much about wildlife. Can’t identify many different animals, don’t where/how they live, don’t seek them out, don’t know if populations are healthy or not. Wildlife have almost no role in their lives, but they sure don’t want anybody killing them.

There is lots of hunters, ranchers , farmers and outdoor people that dont know much about wildlife as well.

[HappyJack]

Some people put in for an LEH and if they don't get drawn they don't hunt that season. For those, that are serious about the hunt then there should be a requirement that you first purchase a hunting license, and include lic# on the LEH form. This may create more opportunities.

Agreed, and if a guides allocated tags aren't spoken for the should revert back to resident hunters. They shouldn't be allowed to carry them over to next season. I know we can't use our unclipped tags next year.

[LBM]

Agreed, and if a guides allocated tags aren't spoken for the should revert back to resident hunters. They shouldn't be allowed to carry them over to next season. I know we can't use our unclipped tags next year.

For some species outfitter tags are allocated over a few years for example they may get 10 goat tags over 5 years if they use the tags in the first 2 or 3 years they dont get any for the rest of the 5 year period.

[Darksith]

There are a lot of non hunters, leaf lickers, that apply for LEH draws to 'save the animals'. You should have to buy a license and the appropriate tags before you can collect an LEH, give them 30 days then re-issue to a legitimate hunter! It might even be a good idea for the records to show a longer term of buying licenses and tags to verify the person applying is a legitimate hunter. They verify your residency, why not your status as a bon a fide hunter?

Many Jurisdictions make you buy your hunting license when you apply and the entry fee is way bigger. I believe you get the entry fee back if you don't win or something like that. We should do the same, it would be good for conservation. I manage around 8 people's LEH (family and close friends) every year. We have a pretty high success rate but we are also smart about it, willing to travel and explore. We've only ever won 1 "once in a lifetime" type of draw 30+:1 type of odds in the last 20 years.

[Darksith]

Agreed, and if a guides allocated tags aren't spoken for the should revert back to resident hunters. They shouldn't be allowed to carry them over to next season. I know we can't use our unclipped tags next year.

I disagree. They are expected to manage their harvesting. It serves them no good if they shoot all their tags early. They get an allotment over 5 years, I don't see this as a problem. They are also generally fairly selective vs resident hunters.

Take sheep for example. An outfitter gets a 5 year allotment, and I think almost every species is like this. I know several outfitters that get say 15 sheep in 5 years, but the area doesn't really support that. They will harvest around 10 sheep in 5 years. What good does that do to the population of the sheep if residents head out there and start killing 5 sheep, 2 of which are gonna be short or young. It only hurts the population, and no one knows the area and the animals like the outfitter. It also changes year to year depending on things like winter, forest fires. They aren't the kind of guys that rape and pillage, they need to keep their success rates up to sell and they want to take the best, oldest animals possible. Sheep teach each other and if all the old ones are wiped out it doesn't help the populations chances to flourish.

Residents are too short sighted a lot of the time, there is lots of opportunity out there, get after it.

[high horse Hal]

In some rough analytics, it appears:
many of the approved Authorizations don't result in the purchase of a tag. We can probably assume that means the person, or group was not able to carry out the hunt.

The timing of requesting time off and planning a hunt, is difficult when the results of the draw come out when they do. Can't really be avoided, but it takes a step in explaining why shit happens. I'm sure some people submit for everything and then plan their hunt based on their LEH success on draws. Understandable.

I agree with the why of so many hunters not buying their tag for a leh win, especially for some of the more difficult hunts. The group or shared draws help this, would be good to see those for bison.

I disagree with the draw times can't be avoided. Which species is being managed so close to the tipping point that flubbing up the number of authorizations for one year would be a disaster
THEY argue they need to have survey stats, yet with the 2% success rate you quote, no pop. is going to disappear or even be severely impacted if hunters over-achieve for one season
The early sheep draw was started as part of an experiment to see how it would pan out, but through mismanagement they don't really know yet how it impacts sheep