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Thread: National Indigenous Day BCWF Reconciliation Dialogue

  1. #11
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    Re: National Indigenous Day BCWF Reconciliation Dialogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvest the Land View Post
    Fantastic idea BCWF and Rob! Its so much better to engage, rather than just stick our heads in the sand and take the "wait and see what happens" approach. Lets be proactive.

    One question I would like to ask is: "How come most (or all) First Nations communities in BC do not report their harvest numbers, particularly for Moose, but for all species they harvest year round? And would they be open to the idea of starting to keep track of harvest statistics in each of their communities, and provide those stats to the Fish & Wildlife Branch so that they can incorporate those numbers with the rest of the province's harvest statistics?"

    Also, Rob did you get a chance to look into the question I asked about whether the BCWF got a response from the Auditor General about grazing leases from a few years ago?
    You are asking too much, they will never comply!
    They probably will say it's not your business whitey.
    WLM
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it. - Clint Eastwood
    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth –Sherlock Holmes
    "Lots of critters to still shoot. And there'll be no quitters until we bag some critters" - 180grainer

  2. #12
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    Re: National Indigenous Day BCWF Reconciliation Dialogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvest the Land View Post

    One question I would like to ask is: "How come most (or all) First Nations communities in BC do not report their harvest numbers, particularly for Moose, but for all species they harvest year round? And would they be open to the idea of starting to keep track of harvest statistics in each of their communities, and provide those stats to the Fish & Wildlife Branch so that they can incorporate those numbers with the rest of the province's harvest statistics?"
    This is a very provocative topic and there are a lot of facets to it. It can absolutely enrage some FN people (and I'm talking about people we collaborate or want to collaborate with).

    Any big fan of science based conservation who believes that if you don't count it you won't be able to manage it will ask the obvious question: why not count harvest if everyone is onside with managing wildlife?

    Something to consider is that it's really tough to slice conservation off of the bigger reconciliation question. What makes 100% sense to good faith non-Indigenous conservation actors can trigger a lot of suspicions and distrust on the FN side. Factor in history as well as a fairly common FN value that the fish or wildlife is either theirs by ownership or by Indigenous right and that what we think of as a competent governing body (the province) has no business having that information (in other words, it's a pretty significant worldview clash).

    I've been given some stern talking to's on that subject!


    We'll put it on the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvest the Land View Post
    Also, Rob did you get a chance to look into the question I asked about whether the BCWF got a response from the Auditor General about grazing leases from a few years ago?
    I did, but I forget where it went. I'll chase it down now. If you don't hear back from me, yank my chain.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

  3. #13
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    Re: National Indigenous Day BCWF Reconciliation Dialogue

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcatter View Post
    You are asking too much, they will never comply!
    They probably will say it's not your business whitey.

    No and yes.

    It's pretty common to hear "It's none of your business" but the idea that they will never comply (understanding that we'd probably get rid of "comply" and replace it with "collaborate", because who the **** enjoys complying at the best of time?) is probably wrong.

    If non-Indigenous hunters and anglers prove that they're preserving and enhancing habitat and managing predators as well as acknowledging, at a minimum, those Indigenous rights that are already recognized in Canadian law there is a chance that we'll get some collaboration on that score.

    It'd probably also help if non-Indigenous hunters and anglers didn't minimize or dismiss aspects of events like the discovery of the 215 in Kamloops.

    I know we've all got opinions on things like tearing down statues, but if you're asking a group of people for a favour it's helpful if you haven't been dismissing their concerns on other issues. It's the old flies with honey vs vinegar dynamic. (In other words, hunters and anglers really need to pick which fights we want to win. If pulling the head off an Edgerton Ryerson statue and throwing it into the canal got me Indigenous harvest numbers I'd tie the truck to the old ******* myself.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

  4. #14
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    Mar 2017
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    Golden
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    Re: National Indigenous Day BCWF Reconciliation Dialogue

    Rob
    Will there be a link on the BCWF website and/or Facebook page to the virtual town hall meeting that we can put on our local club’s social media outlets?
    "A true conservationist is a man who knows that the world is not given by his fathers, but borrowed from his children." John James Audubon

  5. #15
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    Re: National Indigenous Day BCWF Reconciliation Dialogue

    ^^^^^^

    I don't know every place that the link will be but I've asked the comms staff for the registration link and I'll make sure it gets circulated and it will absolutely be posted here.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

  6. #16
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    Re: National Indigenous Day BCWF Reconciliation Dialogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    No and yes.

    It's pretty common to hear "It's none of your business" but the idea that they will never comply (understanding that we'd probably get rid of "comply" and replace it with "collaborate", because who the **** enjoys complying at the best of time?) is probably wrong.

    If non-Indigenous hunters and anglers prove that they're preserving and enhancing habitat and managing predators as well as acknowledging, at a minimum, those Indigenous rights that are already recognized in Canadian law there is a chance that we'll get some collaboration on that score.

    It'd probably also help if non-Indigenous hunters and anglers didn't minimize or dismiss aspects of events like the discovery of the 215 in Kamloops.

    I know we've all got opinions on things like tearing down statues, but if you're asking a group of people for a favour it's helpful if you haven't been dismissing their concerns on other issues. It's the old flies with honey vs vinegar dynamic. (In other words, hunters and anglers really need to pick which fights we want to win. If pulling the head off an Edgerton Ryerson statue and throwing it into the canal got me Indigenous harvest numbers I'd tie the truck to the old ******* myself.
    Well, as you know we see things differently, you are an apologist, I am not.
    But anyway you slice it, call it collaboration, it's just means the same and they will laught at you.
    They want everything they ask for, but we can't ask when it comes to issues of land, hunting, natural resources, etc.
    The radicals will muzzle any reasonable people in their ranks, there are some for sure but they won't matter.

    I'm sure you seen it in the news that they want to own the Trans Mountain pipeline, but how, will they pay for it, or is it a
    good idea them being the sole owners-operators, when already so much money spent or wasted on it at the taxpayers expense?

    Let's just leave the still unproven 215 number out of this, because that will further complicate things.
    There are many on here asking valid questions about that and nobody can pass a judgement till it's all discovered beyound any doubt.
    WLM
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it. - Clint Eastwood
    Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth –Sherlock Holmes
    "Lots of critters to still shoot. And there'll be no quitters until we bag some critters" - 180grainer

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2014
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    67

    Re: National Indigenous Day BCWF Reconciliation Dialogue

    That's my biggest concern for the future of (non-Indigenous) hunting in this province. The entire province is claimed by one nation or another as their traditional territory. And if they have title to land they may not allow non-Indigenous hunters or even hunters from other tribes into that land. In fact, you wouldn't be allowed to transport firearms through or even enter the territory at all without their consent.

    Whether the traditional territory claims are simply accepted at face value or whether they end up with smaller title territories that's a lot of public land that will now be private.


  8. #18
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    Re: National Indigenous Day BCWF Reconciliation Dialogue

    Wildcatter:

    You're correct, we see things differently. You think I'm an apologist and that you're not. You've probably got that inverted, in fact - from where I sit you look like you're trying to run interference for a Catholic Church and a government of sleazy politicians who are being accused of what, for those two groups, is some pretty run of the mill ****ery. I mean, no offence, but am I the only guy here who knows multiple jokes about Catholic priests and child abuse?

    Tell me how I'm wrong on these two things:

    1) BCWF and most hunting/angling conservationists need to preserve and enhance fish and wildlife populations and maintain access to them. We don't need to worry about who's right and wrong about Kamloops, and we don't need to protect politicians who buy pipelines, and we don't need to worry about what BLM said, or what statue got torn down or who said what on the radio/social media/newspaper. We didn't cause those things, we don't control them and they aren't going to help us get more sheep on the mountain. We need to pick our battles, and we need to pick a battle that we have an outside chance of winning. (That's your cue - show me how I wrong on that).


    2) To accomplish #1 BCWF and most hunting/angling conservationists need to have an effective working relationship with FNs because FNs exert a significant amount of influence over what we do. If FNs express sensitivity over anything and we just dismiss it as unproven or unreasonable I think it's reasonable to assume that FNs will be even less inclined to speak with us, let alone collaborate. You can't make a deal with someone if you start by saying "Why are you such a friggin' cry-baby? You've got nothing to cry about". That's a really poor sales presentation. (Again, tell me how I'm wrong about that).

    You can't leave the 215 out. You're delusional if you think that you can. This is confirmation, not news. There will be more. The longer you question the validity of the pain that FNs are expressing over this the longer you're not going to get along with them.

    I can only speculate why you want to resist admitting that it's not a good thing to kidnap kids, deliver them into the hands of strangers and occasionally bury them in unmarked graves. Nobody needs to prove murder. It's already bad enough. If that had happened to one of my family members I'd bear a grudge, and I'd be right to do it. Wouldn't you? I know you're upset about how the world is changing, but getting mad at me for responding to the change won't solve your anger.

    Bottom line: BCWF and all hunter/angler conservationists need to deal with the challenge posed by the political and social power that Indigenous people have. We can choose to celebrate or hate the fact that FNs have this power, but have it they do and we live in the real world. We can't figure out how to do it effectively (because we need member direction, buy in and support) without having the conversation. That's what this is about. Register, submit questions, attend.

    The alternative is not acceptable.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

  9. #19
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    Re: National Indigenous Day BCWF Reconciliation Dialogue

    Here is the link to register:


    https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/regi...SAu2sHdDEoRuRA

    I tried it and it worked for me. Please let me know if there are any issues.
    Last edited by Rob Chipman; 06-10-2021 at 05:46 PM.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

  10. #20
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    Re: National Indigenous Day BCWF Reconciliation Dialogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganso View Post
    ... if they have title to land they may not allow non-Indigenous hunters or even hunters from other tribes into that land. In fact, you wouldn't be allowed to transport firearms through or even enter the territory at all without their consent.
    That is the current state of affairs in Tsilhqot'in Nation Declared Title Lands. Check your LEH notices if you submitted a draw for that are or areas accessed by road through that area. You cannot hunt or travel through their territory to hunt without their permission. All completely legal and brought to you by a bunch of white politicians, judges and lawyers.

    Register and submit questions. If you're not a BCWF member join a BCWF club or become a direct member.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

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