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Thread: Behind the glass hunting podcast? BHA?

  1. #51
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    Re: Behind the glass hunting podcast? BHA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post
    "You can't be a part of an organization, mention that you are a part that organization and not speak for them."

    That's true, but its a lesson that everyone has to learn. Before you learn it you *think* you can say "I'm not speaking on behalf of the organization; I'm only speaking for myself".
    Rob, for the love of god, please, learn how to use the little quote feature. Its right there in the bottom right hand corner of each post. It won't hurt to click on it. Honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElectricDyck View Post
    One thing is sure the tactics used by raincoast are smart and are working, I already hear there slogans in other hunters mouths..." I only shoot what I eat", "I'm not a trophy hunter, Im a meat hunter" These 2 slogans will be used to discontinue all predator hunting and then sheep, goats and black bear.....how do you fight back against it?

    Personally I don't like to see things suffer but to say the killing is the worst part is a lie. I either like killing things or I would hire somebody to do it for me like everyone else that eats does, its way cheaper.... I enjoy trophy hunting for goats and sheep and if the meat was un edible I would still do it. I enjoy looking at a large mature animal mounted on my wall. I think to play "their" game is a losing battle, the general public will see that we are lieing.... the battle for the "Trophy Hunter" and "Meat Hunter" divide seems to be lost. Now hunters lie and identify as "meat" hunters only and and then the argument can be made that predator hunting is "trophy" hunting.. Its not a far stretch to to argue that sheep and goats are not a "meat" animal...and so it goes.
    Well said. With elk (and to a lessor extent moose) for a short period of in the season I am a focused on big bulls, but for the vast majority of the season I am prepared to kill any legal animal that walks in front of me for meat. Everything else is hunted for the memories and the experience.


  2. #52
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    Re: Behind the glass hunting podcast? BHA?

    Been following this thread thinking about chiming in or not. First off, for anyone whos even eluded to it, if you think that you need to align 100% with some ones views in order to work together, wake up, we are never going to 100% agree on everything, this seems to come up on other threads from time to time a bit. With that being said, I do think some of the more educated hunters in certain spaces need to spend more time with the "easily influenced" folks coming into this space.

    For the purpose of the post, I'll use their last names to speak to different posts since they both share the same first name and that could be confusing.

    It's no bullshit that the BHA has brought in a large number of "new city" hunters to the space...is that a good thing? I go back and forth a lot. When you try to tell someone to fight for something when they don't actually understand the exact things/value's they're fighting for, it can get dangerous and the slope is very slippery. I'll leave my views on the BHA out of this, as I go back and forth in my head quite a bit. It has been noted that the night before this podcast was done, supposedly there was a call to discuss it amongst some of the BHA members/directors(just what I heard, not from Pryn)

    I'll start with my personal background experience with Pryn, and he's always been super nice to me even helping me(along with a couple other solid dudes) get back to Vancouver after turning my truck on its roof.

    Next, I'll note that I have spoken with Pryn and we had a phone call to chat about this, amongst some other things Friday.

    As I told him, there is nothing wrong with bringing on someone who opposes the views of hunters to a podcast in a hunting space. With that being said, who hosts the podcast is extremely important and that is where Pryn failed. By calling the paper "Fantastic" in an essence he is agreeing with the very context of the paper, even in saying he agreed with 98% of it.

    Darimont is an extremely smart conniving individual and if you don't think so, well I'll let you think for yourself, there's lots of things you can find online that he's been a part of. On the topic of Darimont, I have zero confidence this man is a hunter by any nature and simply uses that as some sort of pawn, I'll continue to stick by that unless someone can prove otherwise. AND if he is, what makes it okay to kill deer and moose, but not bears and cougars? Isn't that in a sense some what discriminatory? Isn't saying its wrong to kill some species but not others, somewhat an attack on some ones values as a hunter? Am I maybe being a little over the top? Possibly, but if you break down the ideology....

    Listening to the podcast, there is many of points where what Darimont was stating should have been questioned or further investigated, at one point, and this is what disgusts me the most, Darimont literally says; "This really just was an exercise in activism and advocacy against hunting." Minute 26 if you don't believe me.

    Moving on, wolf hunting and management. There was a great opportunity to exploit Darimont here. Raincoast and other organizations on wolf hunting is to protect them from endangerment as a species. Yet, Darimont specifically notes, that as hunters, we CAN'T kill enough wolves to have an impact so the idea of management by hunting alone isn't accurate, to which he has a point that directly contradicts the organizations fight? and to his point, aerial culling and trapping measure are also added to hunting so that the species can somewhat be managed as a whole. Food for thought, we maybe can still use this as Pryn didn't when he could have.

    Discrediting the fact that hunters and others in support of science based management thinking of we are in a fight and that idea is under attack, really bothered me. As I talked with Pryn about, I felt it was a bit of a slap in the face on the campaigns being run in the province and by a lot of good people. To say this isn't an attack on Science Based Wildlife Management is wrong, break the paper down line by line and read between them... It's pretty clear. If that still doesn't sell you on it, resort back to 2017... I'd hope everyone knows exactly what I'm referring to.

    Darimont refers to trophy hunting as if its very complex... only so because by giving it a general meaning and not being able to describe it in one way, it further play's to his motives. He can't actually describe what it means to hunt for trophy because he doesn't understand the term itself. He only knows that when the words Trophy and Hunting are in the same sentence, it creates reaction in the non/anti hunting groups and he love's it.

    As hunters, we need to stop with this, we only hunt for food, eat wild, kill to eat mentality. It's bullshit. Is it a part of why we hunt? 100%. Is it the only reason? No. I dare someone to argue. We hunt because we love the pursuit, we love the adventure, we love the thrill of a stalk, and because for a lot of us, we enjoy the challenge. If we didn't enjoy the challenge, we wouldn't do it. The food we bring home is only a by product of why we hunt and what comes of that act. Instead of hiding from this, we need to normalize it. Whether it's your first spike buck you've spent 2 years trying to harvest or a 12 year old ram, it's every bit about the work we put in and challenges we face on the way to that, as it is about the meals we consume after the fact. We hunt wolves because its PART of the management, not the only form of Wolf management, along with other species. To further that, if the only reason we hunted was for food, well guess what species we would all probably only hunt... BEARS. Cause I don't personally think there is an easier animal to harvest than a bear in our province.

    One more thing that bothered me about the podcast, and continues to bother me the more I hear it... "Adult Onset Hunter". Enough with that bullshit, we are all hunters, with values and traditions. When we started hunting should have no impact on what we refer to ourselves or others in the hunting space. Pryn made a point about noticing that "AOH" tend to go to the extreme for conservation. As someone who grew up with a .22 alongside my father as far back as I can remember and today do as much as I can as well as contribute what I can to hunting, that didn't sit well with me and I'd be lying if it didn't cause a bit of anger.

    But for the sad part, if there's one thing I've been most upset about the week since this podcast dropped, its the division and friction its caused. In a time where we can't afford to be in fighting. Does Pryn deserve some backlash? I'm not going to argue that, he made a mistake and we all pay for our mistakes. I was taught when you play with fire, don't get upset when you get burnt. I think Pryn realizes that now. From a hunting space perspective it's justified, he did hunters no good with that podcast. Whether you feel it will have a negative impact, well time will tell. I should also mention that when I spoke with Pryn Friday morning, he mentioned only 4 people(myself included) had reached out to him to have a chat about it. So while its fine to criticize him for what his actions may or may not have done, and how he failed as a podcast host. I think it is fair that anyone who want's to make a personal insult on the dude, just be willing to say that same thing directly to him(not saying anyone wouldn't) or maybe shoot him a message? Not sure but I've seen some pretty wild shit this last week.

    I could go on and on but there's my outside perspective on the podcast. Decent idea, terrible execution. Do with that what you want, I'm not advocating or defending anyone. I've personally been a rollercoaster of feelings as I listen back to it multiple times over this past week.
    Last edited by porthunter; 03-22-2021 at 03:55 PM.
    Life begins where your comfort zone ends

    WSSBC Monarch; RMGA Life Member; 2% for Conservation Certified; WSF; BCWF

  3. #53
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    Re: Behind the glass hunting podcast? BHA?

    Quote Originally Posted by adriaticum View Post
    This should never be done by a CO.
    It should be done by a hunting group, specially licensed to eliminate urban problem predators.
    I get what you are saying, but... given the backlash the COs are facing from the same public they are trying to protect... would you want to expose yourself to that? You are a better man than me: I am reading the comments and think to myself.. "Ok cougar.... have at her.... lets see where this 'learning to live peacefully together' goes"

  4. #54
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    Re: Behind the glass hunting podcast? BHA?

    Great analysis porthunter,
    Darimont acknowledges that "trophy hunter" has many meanings and it means different things to different people, but he never describes that in his papers.
    And he always uses it in the context he knows will rile up public emotions.

    Here is UVic's description of Darimont:

    "Darimont is an interdisciplinary conservation scientist and the Raincoast Chair of Applied Conservation Science.
    At a global level, his work focuses on the unique ecology of "human predators"
    , or hunters and fishers
    , with novel insight into the causes and consequences of humanity’s distinct predatory behaviour."

    This is cut and pasted from Uvic
    1. Human over population
    2. Government burden and overreach

  5. #55
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    Re: Behind the glass hunting podcast? BHA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Would Rather Be Fishing View Post
    I get what you are saying, but... given the backlash the COs are facing from the same public they are trying to protect... would you want to expose yourself to that? You are a better man than me: I am reading the comments and think to myself.. "Ok cougar.... have at her.... lets see where this 'learning to live peacefully together' goes"

    Yes, I would. And if nobody wants to expose themseves to it, then let the dogs die.
    Maybe if more dogs and small children died as a result of predator attacks, somebody would raise a question
    "Why don't we eliminate these threats?"
    "Who can we call for help?"

    I would rather that anti hunting activist face that mother whose child was killed and that dude whose dog was killed by a cougar and say "Don't kill them, we are on their land".
    Let the anti hunting activists tell it to them.
    They would be quickly silenced.

    The problem is that the further we are from the matter, the less understanding and respect we have for it.
    This cancer is showing itself in everything.
    Farming, meat production, argiculture.
    The further you are from blueberry bushes the less you understand what it takes to grow them.
    The further you are from apple orchards the less you understand that all your fruit picking in this ****ed up country is being done by temporary slaves imported from south america.
    There is a reason why the new generation is always calling on government to resolve all their problems.
    And the further screwed up we are.
    Last edited by adriaticum; 03-22-2021 at 03:30 PM.
    1. Human over population
    2. Government burden and overreach

  6. #56
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    Re: Behind the glass hunting podcast? BHA?

    ElectricDyck:

    "I think to play "their" game is a losing battle" I think you're right. A lot of the argument is "I don't like what you like so let me construct a trap, especially surrounding my definition of your motivation". I need to try to run it down but Randy Newberg had a podcast with a guy who really addressed the motivation critique very effectively. He was so good I can't even paraphrase it, but I'll try to find it.


    KodiakHntr:

    "HOWEVER, one thing to keep in mind in this day and age is that people are terminated from jobs all across North America for being on their social media platform and saying or doing something that is deemed to reflect poorly on the company they are employed by"

    That's true, it's wrong, and I don't support it. I employ people and I wouldn't do terminate them on that basis. You wanna live in a bullshit society then put up with bullshit behaviour. I'm not signing on to that one.


    "only thing BHA can do to downplay the damage that Pryn did on his podcast is to publicly renounce his membership and issue a public statement."

    A public statement might be ok, depending on what they said, but if they removed his membership for that podcast I'd send mine in and castigate the leadership publicly. It's a chickenshit way to behave and grown men shouldn't support it.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

  7. #57
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    Re: Behind the glass hunting podcast? BHA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Chipman View Post

    KodiakHntr:

    "HOWEVER, one thing to keep in mind in this day and age is that people are terminated from jobs all across North America for being on their social media platform and saying or doing something that is deemed to reflect poorly on the company they are employed by"

    That's true, it's wrong, and I don't support it. I employ people and I wouldn't do terminate them on that basis. You wanna live in a bullshit society then put up with bullshit behaviour. I'm not signing on to that one.


    "only thing BHA can do to downplay the damage that Pryn did on his podcast is to publicly renounce his membership and issue a public statement."

    A public statement might be ok, depending on what they said, but if they removed his membership for that podcast I'd send mine in and castigate the leadership publicly. It's a chickenshit way to behave and grown men shouldn't support it.
    I didn't say I supported it, all I said is that in the day of social media they have to have a response or it will be seen as being in agreement.

    Don't like it, don't want to support it, well, two words for you...

    "You people".


  8. #58
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    Re: Behind the glass hunting podcast? BHA?

    well this thread should be locked up. It's just another divisive topic.

    In general, I think we can all agree is that:
    - Chris did not understand the importance of that interview and completely dropped the ball, and that
    - Darimont was given an inch that should only have been given to him by someone who was taking the interview seriously and was completely prepared with some sort of objective for the discussion.


    lock it up and let's move on.

  9. #59
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    Re: Behind the glass hunting podcast? BHA?

    Lock it up and move on to what? Back to conservation projects that don't address the fact we won't be allowed to hunt?
    Any society that will give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.B.F. Government is not the solution to our problem, it is the problem. R.R. I don't think that you have any insight whatsoever into your capacity for good until you have some well-developed insight into your capacity for evil. J.P. Sometimes you have to pick the gun up to put the gun down. M.X. Its not the right time to be sober, the idiots are taking over. Fat Mike

  10. #60
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    Re: Behind the glass hunting podcast? BHA?

    Quote Originally Posted by KodiakHntr View Post
    I didn't say I supported it, .

    Fair enough. My misread. Sorry for the over-reaction.



    Port hunter - good post, good points.
    Rob Chipman
    "The idea of wilderness needs no defense, it only needs defenders" - Ed Abbey

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