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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Spy, pull your head out of the toilet.
FYI, I wrote you of as being in the same class as the antis a long time ago.
As for any reference to you in this thread I might have made, it was only in relationship to conspiracy theories, something you seem to have a phobia for.
I believe Troy was the guy that started down the conspiracy road in this thread when Jesse was questioned on his salary.
Spin it man, spin it.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bearvalley
Spy, pull your head out of the toilet.
FYI, I wrote you of as being in the same class as the antis a long time ago.
As for any reference to you in this thread I might have made, it was only in relationship to conspiracy theories, something you seem to have a phobia for.
I believe Troy was the guy that started down the conspiracy road in this thread when Jesse was questioned on his salary.
Spin it man, spin it.
Looks like I touched a nerve ;/) You do know that if you guides had not stolen from Resident Hunters we would not have had our protest and Weaver and Horigan would not have wanted to shut you down ;-) But hey like I said before keep on blowing up the bridges it looks good on you :-)
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Cattle ranges .....not innocent but not ****ed either......
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spy
Looks like I touched a nerve ;/) You do know that if you guides had not stolen from Resident Hunters we would not have had our protest and Weaver and Horigan would not have wanted to shut you down ;-) But hey like I said before keep on blowing up the bridges it looks good on you :-)
LMAO, Spy you don't have a clue what goes on in wildlife politics.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bearvalley
LMAO, Spy you don't have a clue what goes on in wildlife politics.
Fair enough, are you willing to fill us in? (as in the general pop of this forum)
Hmmm, probably not?... #circlingyourwagons
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rob Chipman
Gcreek:
"
Try using a little imagination Rob."
:-) I'm asking for science and you're saying "imagination and anecdotal evidence is better than science, because science is, like, Al Gore".
Stop digging. Al Gore isn't anymore science than Miley Cyrus. They're both imagination and anecdote. Line up with them if you like, but I'll stick with science.
Remember that you can always say "I've heard it said and believe it to be true, and my anecdotal experience seems to confirm it, that cattle on the range, in controlled circumstances, are beneficial to wildlife, but I don't have any scientific studies to back me up". That saves you from trying to argue that science is bullshit or arguing with people that like science the your opinion is more valuable. It may well be that range practices in BC are beneficial to wildlife. It is incontrovertible that range practices in many parts of the world have (in some cases irreparably) destroyed habitat.
I did what I asked you to do. I googled "do cattle damage wildlife habitat scientific articles". First thing I found?
"
We found more negative (n = 86) than positive (n = 34) ungulate responses overall, however, most studies have been on browsers and mixed feeders, namely deer and elk,..." (http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10...6/11/11/113003)
To be fair, the same piece also said "Grazing by livestock generally reduces quantity, but sometimes improves quality of vegetation by removing old forage and stimulating new growth (Georgiadis et al1989). Therefore, the effect of livestock grazing on native herbivores can be negative, through exploitative competition, or positive, as a result of facilitation. Wild herbivores of differing body sizes are predicted to respond differently to this tradeoff between forage quantity, quality, and predation (Hopcraft et al2010, 2012)."
From another source: "Anderson (1989) points out that removal of livestock grazing can also have substantially negative impacts on some wildlife populations." (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...50742416300768" ; The same source also says:
"Trampling of sensitive plants, pegging of wet ground, slumping of streambanks, impacts on aquatic flora and fauna, and changes to hydrology and stream channel morphology may be quite negative (Belsky et al., 1999; Fleischner, 1994; George et al., 2004) if livestock presence is not well managed (Bush and Ptak, 2006)."
"However,application of controlled livestock grazinghas the potential to provide a management tool that canenhancehabitat for a wide array of wildlife (SeversonandUrness 1994). We simply need to explore the possibilitiesrather than reiterate the negatives of livestock grazing." (https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/rangelands/article/download/.../10578).
It's not too tough to find the stuff. The conclusion is a little more complex than you might like, of course, but it's a little more convincing than "it's been proven that removing cattle from the range reduces wildlife populations. Use your imagination". Point being, if you're the guy making the claim, and making it stridently, back it up or be prepared to face reasonable pushback. It seems clear that grazing, when managed well, can deliver net benefits. It can also damage habitat. We aren't exactly the best habitat protectors in BC, in case you didn't notice.
If you go back through my posts on this thread I think you will find most of my anecdotal statements pretty much in agreeance with most of your links.
I did give Al Gore as an example as even science can be skewed to agree with some researchers opinions. Some, not all.
Why would I have to search this out when I have been living, observing and dealing with the consequences of this kind of thing my entire life?
When I used the term "it's been proven" I was referring to several instances that I have been told of that were used as experimental by those in charge and are still being used today. Sorry if you can't take my word for it.
Have you Googled Nature Conservancy for any info? I haven't the time or inclination to do it.
FWIW, I think you are one of the calmer truth seekers on here and respect that.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Spy
Looks like I touched a nerve ;/) You do know that if you guides had not stolen from Resident Hunters we would not have had our protest and Weaver and Horigan would not have wanted to shut you down ;-) But hey like I said before keep on blowing up the bridges it looks good on you :-)
May I have this statement clarified? My reading of this gives me the assumption that BCWF supported the grizzly hunt ban.....................
If you didn't mean it that way, please explain.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mitchellfried
What a shit show
What a, "shit show", is also, and can be? "extremely important"....
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ohwildwon
What a, "shit show", is also, and can be? "extremely important"....
Yup, you pegged it right on the money. Amazing what comes out of pockets in the wash cycle.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Jesse? Spy?
Someone turn the lights off at the office?
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
I just feel the thread has gone from what should be an important conversation to bashing hence the shit show.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
OMFG get a new thread where you can engage in your personal battles. Leave the poor wandering cows in Region 3 alone.
Classic HBC. Starts out as a fairly legitimate thread about one issue, descends into the usual sniping over something unrelated.
Maddening.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Agreed. Went hunting in region 3 last year. Didn't find the cattle an issue at all.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mitchellfried
Agreed. Went hunting in region 3 last year. Didn't find the cattle an issue at all.
Same here, went out several times last few weeks, just work around the cows. It's not rocket surgery. I like how they tend to make nice trails to follow into cover areas that would otherwise be impassable. Also cover your boots in cowpoop makes a good free cover scent.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gcreek
May I have this statement clarified? My reading of this gives me the assumption that BCWF supported the grizzly hunt ban.....................
If you didn't mean it that way, please explain.
Nope not what I was getting at but you can add it to the guides list of accomplishments thanks for bringing it up... My statement is as it reads ;-)
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Wow, may be because its late and I'm grumpy being up all night, or just the fact that after 2-3 years of utter BS I'm actually getting completely sick of this BS that continues to plague "us".
In any case, this thread is a glaring example of how truly screwed we all are moving forward.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Cattle on the range have varying degrees of affect. When they are moved before the grass/browse gets so low it will support nothing, that's a reasonable use of the land.
When they are left to the point that every single piece of edible vegetation is denuded so that nothing could survive......then that's not so reasonable.
Ive backpacked into the headwaters of Juniper creek in the Ashnola after sheep where there was no place to even lay your sleeping bag down for all the cow crap. The beautiful, clean looking, rushing creek was befouled with shit and piss making it impossible to drink.
The headwaters/marshland where the creek begins was stomped into oblivion by thousands of cattle hoofprints.......nothing left of the riparian buffer but mud and cow shit.
The grass and browse was so low it wouldn't support a gopher. The cowboys had left garbage all over the place.
If ranchers want support from the hunting community they need to be better stewards of the land and show some respect for the what ultimately belongs to everybody.
To the ranchers that do a good job of managing the range....thank you.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
labguy
Cattle on the range have varying degrees of affect. When they are moved before the grass/browse gets so low it will support nothing, that's a reasonable use of the land.
When they are left to the point that every single piece of edible vegetation is denuded so that nothing could survive......then that's not so reasonable.
Ive backpacked into the headwaters of Juniper creek in the Ashnola after sheep where there was no place to even lay your sleeping bag down for all the cow crap. The beautiful, clean looking, rushing creek was befouled with shit and piss making it impossible to drink.
The headwaters/marshland where the creek begins was stomped into oblivion by thousands of cattle hoofprints.......nothing left of the riparian buffer but mud and cow shit.
The grass and browse was so low it wouldn't support a gopher. The cowboys had left garbage all over the place.
If ranchers want support from the hunting community they need to be better stewards of the land and show some respect for the what ultimately belongs to everybody.
To the ranchers that do a good job of managing the range....thank you.
Well said, some seem to think that if there is a blade of grass left they haven't gotten their money's worth.
Curious with your particular statements in your examples. Was this observed on a particularly dry year or is it an annual happening?
We have areas of "sacrifice" on our range area. Look like hell IMO but the areas are minute in comparison with total sq. kms. One side of a meadow can be grazed and the other side untouched. It has been our observation that if cattle don't graze these swamps fairly well, next year's old bottom will force them to eat less of the plant. This progresses until they won't touch the area at all. We are have had such onerous restrictions from spring burning to essentially achieve the same effect as overgrazing the previous year and deal with brush encroachment that things look significantly different than they did 30 years ago.
Garbage left behind by anyone just raises the hair on the back of my neck, we have sure progressed as a species hey?
Your second last line has two interchangeable words. It works both ways Sir.
Regards.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rackmastr
Wow, may be because its late and I'm grumpy being up all night, or just the fact that after 2-3 years of utter BS I'm actually getting completely sick of this BS that continues to plague "us".
In any case, this thread is a glaring example of how truly screwed we all are moving forward.
Hunters will NEVER be unified...pipe dream for those that think its possible. It will always be about me, myself, and I...Threads like this show reason why the anti's will always have a leg up and a better cooperative approach in getting their agenda across to those in power. Look at the arguments cows in the bush cause...imagine a discussion of shutting down moose, goat or sheep?
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gcreek
Well said, some seem to think that if there is a blade of grass left they haven't gotten their money's worth.
Curious with your particular statements in your examples. Was this observed on a particularly dry year or is it an annual happening?
We have areas of "sacrifice" on our range area. Look like hell IMO but the areas are minute in comparison with total sq. kms. One side of a meadow can be grazed and the other side untouched. It has been our observation that if cattle don't graze these swamps fairly well, next year's old bottom will force them to eat less of the plant. This progresses until they won't touch the area at all. We are have had such onerous restrictions from spring burning to essentially achieve the same effect as overgrazing the previous year and deal with brush encroachment that things look significantly different than they did 30 years ago.
Garbage left behind by anyone just raises the hair on the back of my neck, we have sure progressed as a species hey?
Your second last line has two interchangeable words. It works both ways Sir.
Regards.
It does indeed......or at least should......work both ways. I've seen way too many examples of slovenly hunters too.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
labguy
Cattle on the range have varying degrees of affect. When they are moved before the grass/browse gets so low it will support nothing, that's a reasonable use of the land.
When they are left to the point that every single piece of edible vegetation is denuded so that nothing could survive......then that's not so reasonable.
Ive backpacked into the headwaters of Juniper creek in the Ashnola after sheep where there was no place to even lay your sleeping bag down for all the cow crap. The beautiful, clean looking, rushing creek was befouled with shit and piss making it impossible to drink.
The headwaters/marshland where the creek begins was stomped into oblivion by thousands of cattle hoofprints.......nothing left of the riparian buffer but mud and cow shit.
The grass and browse was so low it wouldn't support a gopher. The cowboys had left garbage all over the place.
If ranchers want support from the hunting community they need to be better stewards of the land and show some respect for the what ultimately belongs to everybody.
To the ranchers that do a good job of managing the range....thank you.
Cows been there more then a hundred and fifty years and you can still hunt sheep..think about that.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rackmastr
Wow, may be because its late and I'm grumpy being up all night, or just the fact that after 2-3 years of utter BS I'm actually getting completely sick of this BS that continues to plague "us".
In any case, this thread is a glaring example of how truly screwed we all are moving forward.
fortunately its only a small portion that are keeping this running downhill in this thread, gotta keep that in mind
The watchers are just shaking our/their heads
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Lots of info out there if you're willing to look:
http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/vi...=usupress_pubs
skip to chapter six for a level-headed summary of the relationship between mule deer and livestock. I have academic library privileges, so if anybody would like me to dig up the citations that the author draws on, I'm happy to do that.
Austin's discussion of the relationship between mule deer and elk, and mule deer and whitetail deer, later in the same chapter, are also worth reading, since those discussions come up periodically too.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ryo
Lots of info out there if you're willing to look:
http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/vi...=usupress_pubs
skip to chapter six for a level-headed summary of the relationship between mule deer and livestock. I have academic library privileges, so if anybody would like me to dig up the citations that the author draws on, I'm happy to do that.
Austin's discussion of the relationship between mule deer and elk, and mule deer and whitetail deer, later in the same chapter, are also worth reading, since those discussions come up periodically too.
Pretty much common sense. I will admit I just skimmed it. Is there a part pertaining to complete removal of livestock? Utah also has a wild horse issue in the Sheeprock Mtn . area. Just some quick comments for the time I have.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Gcreek, Yes, he describes a few scenarios where grazing is removed. The result differ based on a few factors according to the author. This passage outlines one of the more interesting scenarios: (take notes that pdfs do not like to be copy-pasted - lots of typos - better to refer to the original)
"On areas protected from livestock grazing, the in uence of deerbrowsing on plant community changes is also observable. For example,in one of the earliest grazing research experiments, range professor ArtSmith at Utah State University compared adjacent ranges at the lower elevation of the mountain brush zone used by mule deer during winter innorthern Utah (Smith 1949). One range was heavily grazed by livestockin spring and summer, while the second had been protected from live-stock during the previous 11 years. Perennial forbs and grasses were moreabundant on the range protected from livestock, but shrubs, primarilybig sagebrush, were much less abundant due to heavy deer browsing. etrend of decreasing shrubs on the range protected from livestock grazingcontinued through 1982 (Austin and Urness 1998), and as observed in2000 the range protected from livestock grazing was devoid of all shrubs.In about 60 years a highly productive deer winter range was reduced toone of very limited value for big game simply because of the lack of live-stock grazing. Research in Colorado and other states reported similarresults (Riodan 1970; omas 1970; McKean and Bartmann 1971). " p.65-66
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ryo
Gcreek, Yes, he describes a few scenarios where grazing is removed. The result differ based on a few factors according to the author. This passage outlines one of the more interesting scenarios: (take notes that pdfs do not like to be copy-pasted - lots of typos - better to refer to the original)
"On areas protected from livestock grazing, the in uence of deerbrowsing on plant community changes is also observable. For example,in one of the earliest grazing research experiments, range professor ArtSmith at Utah State University compared adjacent ranges at the lower elevation of the mountain brush zone used by mule deer during winter innorthern Utah (Smith 1949). One range was heavily grazed by livestockin spring and summer, while the second had been protected from live-stock during the previous 11 years. Perennial forbs and grasses were moreabundant on the range protected from livestock, but shrubs, primarilybig sagebrush, were much less abundant due to heavy deer browsing. etrend of decreasing shrubs on the range protected from livestock grazingcontinued through 1982 (Austin and Urness 1998), and as observed in2000 the range protected from livestock grazing was devoid of all shrubs.In about 60 years a highly productive deer winter range was reduced toone of very limited value for big game simply because of the lack of live-stock grazing. Research in Colorado and other states reported similarresults (Riodan 1970; omas 1970; McKean and Bartmann 1971). " p.65-66
Almost exactly what my anecdotal meandering stated.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quite the thread....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ohwildwon
Fair enough, are you willing to fill us in? (as in the general pop of this forum)
Hmmm, probably not?... #circlingyourwagons
I don't have time to write a book on wildlife politics, but if and when I ever do I guarantee some smug faces today won't be smiling.
There's a lot of make believe being portrayed to the public under the pretense of bettering wildlife.
I learned a long time ago that bullshit doesn't buy whiskey.
A few very manipulative people have gained themselves a following and with the backing of the sheep these manipulators are on a mission to carry through with either personal or career agendas using a delivery message vessel that was designed for another cause.
This statement is directed at more than one organization.
I will leave it at that for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ryo
Gcreek, Yes, he describes a few scenarios where grazing is removed. The result differ based on a few factors according to the author. This passage outlines one of the more interesting scenarios: (take notes that pdfs do not like to be copy-pasted - lots of typos - better to refer to the original)
"On areas protected from livestock grazing, the in uence of deerbrowsing on plant community changes is also observable. For example,in one of the earliest grazing research experiments, range professor ArtSmith at Utah State University compared adjacent ranges at the lower elevation of the mountain brush zone used by mule deer during winter innorthern Utah (Smith 1949). One range was heavily grazed by livestockin spring and summer, while the second had been protected from live-stock during the previous 11 years. Perennial forbs and grasses were moreabundant on the range protected from livestock, but shrubs, primarilybig sagebrush, were much less abundant due to heavy deer browsing. etrend of decreasing shrubs on the range protected from livestock grazingcontinued through 1982 (Austin and Urness 1998), and as observed in2000 the range protected from livestock grazing was devoid of all shrubs.In about 60 years a highly productive deer winter range was reduced toone of very limited value for big game simply because of the lack of live-stock grazing. Research in Colorado and other states reported similarresults (Riodan 1970; omas 1970; McKean and Bartmann 1971). " p.65-66
Interesting study Ryo, unless my intellectual level is too low to absorb this information I would jump to the conclusion that with a complete shut down of livestock grazing on ungulate winter range the area eventually loses its value to winter ungulates.
If this is true some conservation groups better take a look at what they are doing.
Some fence removal might very well be warranted.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bearvalley
Quite the thread....
I don't have time to write a book on wildlife politics, but if and when I ever do I guarantee some smug faces today won't be smiling.
There's a lot of make believe being portrayed to the public under the pretense of bettering wildlife.
I learned a long time ago that bullshit doesn't buy whiskey.
A few very manipulative people have gained themselves a following and with the backing of the sheep these manipulators are on a mission to carry through with either personal or career agendas using a delivery message vessel that was designed for another cause.
This statement is directed at more than one organization.
I will leave it at that for now.
Interesting study Ryo, unless my intellectual level is too low to absorb this information I would jump to the conclusion that with a complete shut down of livestock grazing on ungulate winter range the area eventually loses its value to winter ungulates.
If this is true some conservation groups better take a look at what they are doing.
Some fence removal might very well be warranted.
A few few deer in the headlights read this one Mike. Lol
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ryo
Gcreek, Yes, he describes a few scenarios where grazing is removed. The result differ based on a few factors according to the author. This passage outlines one of the more interesting scenarios: (take notes that pdfs do not like to be copy-pasted - lots of typos - better to refer to the original)
"On areas protected from livestock grazing, the in uence of deerbrowsing on plant community changes is also observable. For example,in one of the earliest grazing research experiments, range professor ArtSmith at Utah State University compared adjacent ranges at the lower elevation of the mountain brush zone used by mule deer during winter innorthern Utah (Smith 1949). One range was heavily grazed by livestockin spring and summer, while the second had been protected from live-stock during the previous 11 years. Perennial forbs and grasses were moreabundant on the range protected from livestock, but shrubs, primarilybig sagebrush, were much less abundant due to heavy deer browsing. etrend of decreasing shrubs on the range protected from livestock grazingcontinued through 1982 (Austin and Urness 1998), and as observed in2000 the range protected from livestock grazing was devoid of all shrubs.In about 60 years a highly productive deer winter range was reduced toone of very limited value for big game simply because of the lack of live-stock grazing. Research in Colorado and other states reported similarresults (Riodan 1970; omas 1970; McKean and Bartmann 1971). " p.65-66
Effects also depend on ecosystem/grassland type. Some of the grasslands didn't evolve with heavy grazing pressure which can have an effect right through to soil quality over time. Others are held at succession stages which eliminate the production of shrubs.
Not sure if you have access to gov DB as well. Don Gayton one of the best grassland ecologists in BC, used to work @ FORREX. If you do check monitoring plots and exclosures by both range and habitat ecologists for more BC based primary data. There have also been cases of overgrazing (per land use man plan) by elk (EK trench review by FPB).
Generally speaking the litt says, just like everything else, moderation is the key. Using science to direct land use practices continues to be the best outlet, but sometimes decision-based evidence making is the preferred choice when evidence gets in the way of beliefs.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horshur
Cows been there more then a hundred and fifty years and you can still hunt sheep..think about that.
Like everything else, there isn't one 'silver bullet' - pile of stresses on wildlife and sheep including psoroptes. Over-grazing up top is a known issue.
The fencing exclosures and plots are the best places to check if interested - not sure if they're even being monitored now. You could call the range or parks branch.
Alternatively you can compare the grass on either side of the fence above south slopes, or ask the outfitter (he packs feed in), or cut a horse loose up top and see if you can find 'em in the AM if you're into the anecdotal.
Again, evidence is probably the best thing for discussion.
So far as "Cows been there more then a hundred and fifty years and you can still hunt sheep..think about that." There will likely be two tags in the whole ashnola (both snowy and crater combined) next year. Wouldn't at all be surprised if it was closed. Certainly isn't all about grazing, pile of stresses on sheep in that country, grazing is but one.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gcreek
Your tunnel vision is getting the best of you Jesse.
If you don't get a bunch of wolves and bears dealt with your habitat just as well be cow feed. At least Cattlemen are dealing with that problem. Is BCFW helping foot that bill at all? Maybe adding a voice? Or are you protecting them also?
Yep, predators play a huge role with habitat alienation, no doubt. Definitely good discussion for another thread.
Pretty sure the BCWF has been working with the Cattlemen on the issue, among others like wild salmon habitat staff and post fire habitat restoration and will continue doing so. Nobody likes over-grazing, slob hunters, or bad land use management - generally speaking we all see eye to eye on that stuff. Nice thing is we work well with the folks doing the science, gives us a good starting place to make informed decisions.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GoatGuy
Like everything else, there isn't one 'silver bullet' - pile of stresses on wildlife and sheep including psoroptes. Over-grazing up top is a known issue.
The fencing exclosures and plots are the best places to check if interested - not sure if they're even being monitored now. You could call the range or parks branch.
Alternatively you can compare the grass on either side of the fence above south slopes, or ask the outfitter (he packs feed in), or cut a horse loose up top and see if you can find 'em in the AM if you're into the anecdotal.
Again, evidence is probably the best thing for discussion.
So far as "Cows been there more then a hundred and fifty years and you can still hunt sheep..think about that." There will likely be two tags in the whole ashnola (both snowy and crater combined) next year. Wouldn't at all be surprised if it was closed. Certainly isn't all about grazing, pile of stresses on sheep in that country, grazing is but one.
so Jessie what you are saying is that they are giving out the tags they should have been finely!!!!...maybe they will get with the program on the moose too..Wells Grey..Adams ect Ad fineum
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gcreek
Anyone know when hunting season is over? Getting annoyed with trespassers and dickheads leaving my gates open. Does that sound as nice as your post?
Speaking as a former cattle farmer I couldn't agree more.
Gcreek you are welcome at my campfire anytime...
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horshur
Cows been there more then a hundred and fifty years and you can still hunt sheep..think about that.
Im not sure what this comment is supposed to mean.
Being happy that there are still a few places left to hunt, where there is a wild animal or two left on the landscape is basically giving up.
You're content to let this continual downhill slide in game populations and hunting opportunities continue?
Attitudes like that do nothing to foster the energy and resolve needed to enhance and improve game management and hunting opportunities in this province......think about that.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
labguy
Im not sure what this comment is supposed to mean.
Being happy that there are still a few places left to hunt, where there is a wild animal or two left on the landscape is basically giving up.
You're content to let this continual downhill slide in game populations and hunting opportunities continue?
Attitudes like that do nothing to foster the energy and resolve needed to enhance and improve game management and hunting opportunities in this province......think about that.
Exactly....the sheep were here for thousands of years before the bovine, did anyone think about that??
Up in one of our hunting area's I see that water level is the worst I have ever seen it, real scarce. Every watering hole, creek, swamp had a group of cows hanging around, ruining the water, unfit for a dog to drink and were supposed to be ok with that?
Just waiting for the ungulate population to come down with some kind of disease while sharing a contaminated watering hole with these cows.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
338win mag
Exactly....the sheep were here for thousands of years before the bovine, did anyone think about that??
Up in one of our hunting area's I see that water level is the worst I have ever seen it, real scarce. Every watering hole, creek, swamp had a group of cows hanging around, ruining the water, unfit for a dog to drink and were supposed to be ok with that?
Just waiting for the ungulate population to come down with some kind of disease while sharing a contaminated watering hole with these cows.
That is a very similar mindset to the bunny huggers when they refer to people living in bear country.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Got to love the terracing too, looks so natural, and found every where the bovine invades, easy to walk on too.
Brutal.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Logan
gettin annoyed with grazing leases and cows everywhere, does anyone know when the farmers are supposed to have their cows in by?
If they are grazing leases then you should not be on their hunting until the cows are off the land. However if they are on crown range then you are allowed to hunt while they are on range. Grazing licenses and Grazing Leases are two entirely different entities of tenures. One has the rights to forage (licenses) while the other (leases) there is more rights to the land as the leassee pays taxes. Licenses always start with "RAN" followed with a number whereas, a lease is always just a number.
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Re: anyone know when the cattle in Reg 3 have to be in by?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
horshur
so Jessie what you are saying is that they are giving out the tags they should have been finely!!!!...maybe they will get with the program on the moose too..Wells Grey..Adams ect Ad fineum
No, that's not what was said at all.
What was said was: "There will likely be two tags in the whole ashnola (both snowy and crater combined) next year. Wouldn't at all be surprised if it was closed. "
Managers and ecologists recognize closing it will have no effect on recovery, but it's part of the management procedure. Either way not a big deal.
Think the challenge here is beliefs-based systems making decisions in isolation of science. Not restricted to HBC, see it on Raincoast's social media as well. Beliefs first, science when it suits. Part of the post-truth era.