Whitetail Doe Opener: Good Luck to All!

[hare_assassin]

Good luck to all you people out there who have WT doe opening in your regions today!

I'm going to do my best to help slow this invasive species, that's for sure! Going to see how long I can sit in one spot today. Not really my kind of hunting, but if that's what it takes... :)

[Brizz]

Good luck! I'll be hunting the Summerland-Peachland area the next few days. Not the most ideal area I know - have to stay close to home though!

[guywitha270]

I'll be hunting in Reg. 3 with my brother this weekend. Here's a question: if you saw a doe and a fawn, would you take both of them at the same time?

[hare_assassin]

I'll be hunting in Reg. 3 with my brother this weekend. Here's a question: if you saw a doe and a fawn, would you take both of them at the same time?

Neither, but that's just me. ;)

[ianm]

Yeah, I'd pass too.

[Cami]

Take em tasty

[Blainer]

Neither, but that's just me. ;) x2, not like it's a trophy buck

[.300WSMImpact!]

Good luck to all you people out there who have WT doe opening in your regions today!

I'm going to do my best to help slow this invasive species, that's for sure! Going to see how long I can sit in one spot today. Not really my kind of hunting, but if that's what it takes... :)

Invasive?! That's funny

[Jim Prawn]

I'll be hunting in Reg. 3 with my brother this weekend. Here's a question: if you saw a doe and a fawn, would you take both of them at the same time?

Take the fawn, and make fawn-do. Tenderest meat you'll ever have.
JP

[r106]

I'll be hunting in Reg. 3 with my brother this weekend. Here's a question: if you saw a doe and a fawn, would you take both of them at the same time?


Yup I would go for the fawn first then your buddy for the doe.


I hope to get out for a day or two this weekend. Maybe take a whity doe, on a ridge with no back stop :wink:

[dana]

Come this time of year, fawns are long weaned and can survive just fine without mom, so if I was by myself, I'd take the doe. No problem if there was another hunter with me that wanted the doe, I'd try for a double and take the fawn. They are indeed an invasive critter and the whole point of these seasons is to actually kill them and knock the invasion back a bit. People have to start getting over the 'Bambi' ideals that Disney put in their heads. By pulling the pin on a whitetail doe, it is true conservation at work. Help struggling mule deer herds and whack and stack some tastey whiteys for the freezer. I certainly am going to try to do my part every chance I can get. I'm looking forward to the new regs for Region 3 for next year when we'll be able to shoot 2 does per season. If you only shoot a buck, it does nothing to stop the invasion. It just takes one animal out of the herd. Shoot a doe and you could be taking countless deer out of the herd as a doe can produce does that produce does, all of which can have numerous fawns throughout their lifetimes. Do we want to see a day when mule deer are talked about in folklore or do we want to do something to help them out. As hunters, these seasons are one of the best tools we have to really make a difference.

Here's a picture of the Region 3 whitetail doe I shot last year. She was very tastey!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/PA200096.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BCBOY/media/PA200096.jpg.html)

[hare_assassin]

Great post dana. I couldn't agree more re: conservation. Good info about the weaning being done by now. That changes my perspective.

Now I just need to figure out where they are and how to hunt them.

Mule deer are so easy... Relatively speaking.

[Jim Prawn]

If you get a young one, even if its 1-1/2 years old, try this; Remove all 4 quarters at the hip and shoulder. Leave them whole, bone in. To cook, rub with coarse sea salt, Rosemary, fresh crushed garlic, and Thyme. Put in a large ziploc, add olive oil and balsamic vinegar. Remove all air and let stand refrigerated for a day or two. Cook in the oven @ 350 to 140 degrees (I use a digital thermometer with an alarm - works awesome) Let stand at least 10 minutes before slicing, will be beautifully pink and juicy. Even the front shoulders are fork tender this way and I have fed several of these to people who think they dont like venison and they love it, very tender and mild. Shoot away!
JP

[GoatGuy]

If you get a young one, even if its 1-1/2 years old, try this; Remove all 4 quarters at the hip and shoulder. Leave them whole, bone in. To cook, rub with coarse sea salt, Rosemary, fresh crushed garlic, and Thyme. Put in a large ziploc, add olive oil and balsamic vinegar. Remove all air and let stand refrigerated for a day or two. Cook in the oven @ 350 to 140 degrees (I use a digital thermometer with an alarm - works awesome) Let stand at least 10 minutes before slicing, will be beautifully pink and juicy. Even the front shoulders are fork tender this way and I have fed several of these to people who think they dont like venison and they love it, very tender and mild. Shoot away!
JP

that sounds awesome. Yearling wt doe is about as good as it gets for wild game.

[hare_assassin]

BTW, 15 minutes.

That's how long I was able to sit still today. I'm not one for sitting around.

[GoatGuy]

BTW, 15 minutes.

That's how long I was able to sit still today. I'm not one for sitting around.

take a book, kick back and relax - that's the only way you'll hunt them effectively.

[Jim Prawn]

BTW, 15 minutes.

That's how long I was able to sit still today. I'm not one for sitting around.

Haha! You & I could hunt together, except I might have made you leave earlier! lol...
JP

[hare_assassin]

Jim, that does sound delicious! I might try it with one of my MD roasts if I miss out on WT.

[hare_assassin]

take a book, kick back and relax - that's the only way you'll hunt them effectively.

Or my Playbook tethered to my BB. Then I could annoy you all with my safety tips while I wait for a WT to stroll by... :)

Nah... Just joshin'

[adriaticum]

Hunting is definitely starting cut into my fishing time...

[GoatGuy]

Or my Playbook tethered to my BB. Then I could annoy you all with my safety tips while I wait for a WT to stroll by... :)

Nah... Just joshin'
hahaha, whatever works

[Redneck Rocket]

I went out this evening for an hour and a half. Spend some time sitting near a couple of clearings I have seen them in before, but no-one around.

[meat man]

I would never shoot a doe and leave the fawn.. it will die by its self.

[Redneck Rocket]

Do you guys call for whitetails? I bought a call recently with an adjustable reed. If you do call, what is your strategy?

[HarryToolips]

Come this time of year, fawns are long weaned and can survive just fine without mom, so if I was by myself, I'd take the doe. No problem if there was another hunter with me that wanted the doe, I'd try for a double and take the fawn. They are indeed an invasive critter and the whole point of these seasons is to actually kill them and knock the invasion back a bit. People have to start getting over the 'Bambi' ideals that Disney put in their heads. By pulling the pin on a whitetail doe, it is true conservation at work. Help struggling mule deer herds and whack and stack some tastey whiteys for the freezer. I certainly am going to try to do my part every chance I can get. I'm looking forward to the new regs for Region 3 for next year when we'll be able to shoot 2 does per season. If you only shoot a buck, it does nothing to stop the invasion. It just takes one animal out of the herd. Shoot a doe and you could be taking countless deer out of the herd as a doe can produce does that produce does, all of which can have numerous fawns throughout their lifetimes. Do we want to see a day when mule deer are talked about in folklore or do we want to do something to help them out. As hunters, these seasons are one of the best tools we have to really make a difference.

Here's a picture of the Region 3 whitetail doe I shot last year. She was very tastey!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/PA200096.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BCBOY/media/PA200096.jpg.html)

In some regions your definitely right, it's good to help keep the WT numbers suppressed as when they're numbers are very high they just leave no room for muleys at all, such as heavy agricultural areas like Cherryville and Lumby for example. I'll take a good healthy doe if I see one for sure, but I think they should make the 2 doe limit for those certain agriculture areas, not everywhere, many people I know as well as myself have noticed quite the decline in WT in certain areas since the doe season opened, and some of these guys are senior hunters who have been hunting these certain areas for a long time. Keep the doe season open I would think, but don't increase the limit to 2 in many of these areas. For example, I have been hunting region 4-32 every season in september for the last 4 years. The first year it was a blast as WT's were everywhere, and every season since it has gotten worse, this season I didn't even see a single deer in the bush there. WT's are a blast to hunt, especially during the rut, manage their population with a doe season for sure, but don't make the seasons way to liberal as if they are an 'invasive species' like many of you consider them to be.. just my opinion thanks..

[hare_assassin]

Do you guys call for whitetails? I bought a call recently with an adjustable reed. If you do call, what is your strategy?

I bought a rattle bag recently, but I'm thinking it won't work so good for does. :)

But hey, if it brings in a buck I wouldn't complain!

[.300WSMImpact!]

Do you guys call for whitetails? I bought a call recently with an adjustable reed. If you do call, what is your strategy?

distress fawn calls works for does this time of year, they are even known to come running in, you tube it there is a couple cool videos

[adriaticum]

Whitetails are not an invasive species the way I see it.
They are native to north America just like mule or black tail deer are.
The only difference is the habitat they live in.
While mule deer and black tail prefer wild mountainous terrain, white tail deer prefer agricultural land.
So the they migrate with the settlement of the west.
They are expanding their range.
Some people I guess don't like them because they resemble cattle in their living arrangements.
"Population density" being the key phrase.

[139grainsofhell]

Been hunting since Monday in the ok for Muleys bagged a monster 3x3 250lb buck yesterday I've been chasing for a while went up today for a whitey buck and past 30 trucks in 1 hr every fella I talked to was looking for whitey does so be careful out there it's gonna be a busy one with the long wkd as well.

[Sofa King]

I'll be hunting in Reg. 3 with my brother this weekend. Here's a question: if you saw a doe and a fawn, would you take both of them at the same time?

like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1rQpqIbBsU&feature=player_detailpage

[Whonnock Boy]

bagged a monster 3x3 250lb buck yesterday
What are you waiting for? Post it up... :wink:

[Sofa King]

Whitetails are not an invasive species the way I see it.
They are native to north America just like mule or black tail deer are.
The only difference is the habitat they live in.
While mule deer and black tail prefer wild mountainous terrain, white tail deer prefer agricultural land.
So the they migrate with the settlement of the west.
They are expanding their range.
Some people I guess don't like them because they resemble cattle in their living arrangements.
"Population density" being the key phrase.

my thoughts also.
they are a native species.
survival of the fittest.
it's not their fault they are more hearty than mulies.
i'll tell ya what's an invasive species, cattle.

[139grainsofhell]

What are you waiting for? Post it up... :wink:
I will get a story and pics up soon, skinned and caped today.
Been seing Muleys all over the place but only one whitetail today small buck that wouldn't give me the time of day

[Sofa King]

I know where there's a pocket of wt where i'm hunting, but i'll be damned if i'm wasting valuable time looking for a doe while there's bruiser bucks waiting to fall.

[139grainsofhell]

I know where there's a pocket of wt where i'm hunting, but i'll be damned if i'm wasting valuable time looking for a doe while there's bruiser bucks waiting to fall.
Where you going??? Lol good luck , I'm doing the same 5x whitey is next on the hit list

[guywitha270]

Thanks for your opinions, fellas. I know the White-tailed deer's reproductive rate is quite a bit faster than mule deer. I know that fawns under 1 year of age can be bred and produce offspring of their own. If my brother and I see a doe and a yearling fawn this weekend, there will be some good eats on the table for sure. Good luck to you all.

[Sofa King]

Where you going??? Lol good luck , I'm doing the same 5x whitey is next on the hit list

tunkwa, it's where all the monsters hide.
haha.

[139grainsofhell]

tunkwa, it's where all the monsters hide.
haha.
That's funny I'm actually heading there on Monday for a week I wonder if I will be the only hunter in the area lol...or one of the thousands

[hare_assassin]

That's funny I'm actually heading there on Monday for a week I wonder if I will be the only hunter in the area lol...or one of the thousands

Depends on whether reverse psychology works on HBCers, or not. Yes-no it doesn't. Maybe.

[1899]

Good post Dana. I went out yesterday but saw only mulies.

[dana]

Whitetails are not an invasive species the way I see it.
They are native to north America just like mule or black tail deer are.
The only difference is the habitat they live in.
While mule deer and black tail prefer wild mountainous terrain, white tail deer prefer agricultural land.
So the they migrate with the settlement of the west.
They are expanding their range.
Some people I guess don't like them because they resemble cattle in their living arrangements.
"Population density" being the key phrase.

Just because something is natural to North America doesn't mean it belongs everywhere in North America. Whitetails are super aggressive and have been expanding well beyond historic boundaries. A winter range can only hold a certain number of deer, it doesn't matter if it is mule deer or whitetails. There are many areas of the province where mule deer were very abundant. Now, they are few and far between yet the whitetail that was no existant in those areas are now very numerous. What is it that we as outdoorsmen want? Do we want to see the mule deer fall off to the point of no return? Do we want our grandchildren to ask us about the good ol' days when muleys were able to be hunted. I've had similar conversations about southern mountain caribou with my grandparents. Are we willing to go there because we were too 'manly' to kill an antlerless whitetail? If hunters are indeed all about meat hunting, why is it such a challenge to get them to jump onto these new seasons? IMO it is strictly the 'Macho' thing that we see on boards like this, that keeps hunters from pulling the pin on a whitetail doe or fawn. IMO we need to look at whitetails in a whole different light. Conservation of mule deer depends on it. Think of whitetails as tastey coyotes or wolves. No one has the argument about shooting a yote that may have a yearling pup or 2 still hanging out with it now do they?

[B-rad]

Woot woot,,,,lots of wt out there boys and girls,,,,,Nicola lake,,,,Shuswap,,,outskirts of chase,,,,falkland,,,westwold,,,,up above monte lake,,,,gooooooo get em,,,and good luck,,,,message me if ya need a good idea where to harvest out,,,,I'm all tagged up,,,got my mulie,,,and 2 wt,,,,now I'm a bird hunter for rest of season,,(coyotes also)

[GoatGuy]

my thoughts also.
they are a native species.
survival of the fittest.
it's not their fault they are more hearty than mulies.
i'll tell ya what's an invasive species, cattle.
Please fill your argument out a bit more so it can be understand from an evolutionary perspective.

[Sofa King]

Just because something is natural to North America doesn't mean it belongs everywhere in North America. Whitetails are super aggressive and have been expanding well beyond historic boundaries. A winter range can only hold a certain number of deer, it doesn't matter if it is mule deer or whitetails. There are many areas of the province where mule deer were very abundant. Now, they are few and far between yet the whitetail that was no existant in those areas are now very numerous. What is it that we as outdoorsmen want? Do we want to see the mule deer fall off to the point of no return? Do we want our grandchildren to ask us about the good ol' days when muleys were able to be hunted. I've had similar conversations about southern mountain caribou with my grandparents. Are we willing to go there because we were too 'manly' to kill an antlerless whitetail? If hunters are indeed all about meat hunting, why is it such a challenge to get them to jump onto these new seasons? IMO it is strictly the 'Macho' thing that we see on boards like this, that keeps hunters from pulling the pin on a whitetail doe or fawn. IMO we need to look at whitetails in a whole different light. Conservation of mule deer depends on it. Think of whitetails as tastey coyotes or wolves. No one has the argument about shooting a yote that may have a yearling pup or 2 still hanging out with it now do they?

if the mulies are in such dire circumstances, then why are we still hunting them so freely?
i'm not having a "macho" attitude when saying that i'm not wasting my valkuable time in the woods shooting a doe when I am trying to find a buck still.
now if I already had my buck i'd have no problem going and taking a doe, but i'm not ending a day's outing looking for my buck if a doe walks out into sight.

[hare_assassin]

but i'm not ending a day's outing looking for my buck if a doe walks out into sight.

One in the freezer is better than 2 in the bush.

[adriaticum]

Just because something is natural to North America doesn't mean it belongs everywhere in North America. Whitetails are super aggressive and have been expanding well beyond historic boundaries. A winter range can only hold a certain number of deer, it doesn't matter if it is mule deer or whitetails. There are many areas of the province where mule deer were very abundant. Now, they are few and far between yet the whitetail that was no existant in those areas are now very numerous. What is it that we as outdoorsmen want? Do we want to see the mule deer fall off to the point of no return? Do we want our grandchildren to ask us about the good ol' days when muleys were able to be hunted. I've had similar conversations about southern mountain caribou with my grandparents. Are we willing to go there because we were too 'manly' to kill an antlerless whitetail? If hunters are indeed all about meat hunting, why is it such a challenge to get them to jump onto these new seasons? IMO it is strictly the 'Macho' thing that we see on boards like this, that keeps hunters from pulling the pin on a whitetail doe or fawn. IMO we need to look at whitetails in a whole different light. Conservation of mule deer depends on it. Think of whitetails as tastey coyotes or wolves. No one has the argument about shooting a yote that may have a yearling pup or 2 still hanging out with it now do they?

I'm not challenging anyone's manhood I'm just stating what I've read.
It's also not up to me to decide where wt deer belong. Let them decide that.
The migration of wt from south east to north west is natural and I don't feel any hate for wt deer. You can thin out the wt deer but because they are better survivors it's only natural that they prevail. They belong where they can survive. Perhaps new wt populations in urban farmlands will open up opportunities for us we haven't had before.
Plus wt taste better than mulies and does taste better than bucks so have at 'er ;)

[Sofa King]

Please fill your argument out a bit more so it can be understand from an evolutionary perspective.

what's there to say.
whitetail aren't "invasive" like perch.
they are native animals going about their daily business.
they are simply acting like humans and moving about.
should we be killed because we've expanded our territory and harmed the existing wildlife in those areas?
tough titty if the mulies are the lesser animal, they can move to other areas themselves, no one is forcing them to stay where they are.
and I love mulies, they are my favourite game animal to persue.
but I hate the mentality of hunters who are pissed off because "other" species are also endangering their favourite animal.
if the mulies are is such a declining state, then why are we not getting stricter on hunting them?
I would hate that, but wouldn't that make some sense?

and the cattle allowed to free range are a million times more invasive on the feed in those areas than a few whitetail.
go out where the cattle are, all the ground in the areas is chewed right to the ground.
look on the other side of the fence, and it's lush and thick, until they are then moved over to that area.
i'd say that has more affect on the mule deer than the very small pockets of wt that have broadened.
I know in a few areas where I hunt, there was never any wt before, but now there are small pockets there.
but, they are very contained to specific pockets in those areas.
it's like they've found their suitable terrain and that's where I see them every time, in those small areas.
they are definitely not running rampant throughout the areas and seen everywhere like the mulies.

i'm not saying that wt aren't affecting the mulies.
but wouldn't closing mule deer seasons help greatly in helping their numbers?
why is the answer always to kill more animals?
and what if, by some chance, the mulies never recovered, and just kept dwindling?
is it better then, to have increased our killing of wt also, so that we then have less of everything overall?
obviously, thinning the wt populations is an answer and it works.
but people shouldn't be chastised for "not" taking a doe when they can.

[finngun]

adriaticum==he migration of wt from south east to north west is natural and I don't feel any hate for wt deer. You can thin out the wt deer but because they are better survivors it's only natural that they prevail.
i feel same way...let nature have its way..and w-t tastes at leat as good as m-d:-D
biologist say after 50 or so more years m-d can be found only higher grounds and remote areas..we [not me] will see,,

[Salty]

To the question at hand and the ethics and what ifs of seeing a WT doe with this year's fawn. That 'fawn' is going to be 60% or better the size of the doe that bore it by now its survival chances don't change a lot IMO if the mother is taken, and of course if the fawn is taken the doe will be fine. WT as said already are survivalists and bread readily and grow quickly. As well they (does and fawns at least) tend to herd or yard up living more or less in herds especially for the winter. Any white tail doe is known to openly and readily care for a fawn that isn't hers as well. Also as said back there, blow a fawn in distress call where there's does nearby and you'll likely see a dramatic show of a bunch of does coming running to defend the unknown 'fawn'.

Here's a situation that I ran in to a few years back. After hunting a weekend with my buddy who couldn't get more time off than that and not finding a decent buck in the hills in the north ok I decided to stay one more day and hunt lower areas as I had a doe draw (before the GOS started). Early in am I spotted two antlerless deer dart across a road and in to some willow thickets by a creek; got out and made my way the same direction flanking a hundred yards or so to one side. Fifteen minutes later I spotted them again and saw where they should come out into a bit of an opening, lined up on a stump... they followed the plan and I took a lone antlerless at 150 yds or so.

When I found her it was a nice fat mature doe. Then, as I took my pack off, I hear a bawl. I look up and a hundred yards away there's the other deer staring right at me. I'll be honest I felt like a prick. I walked quickly toward it and it finally bounded away flying the white flag heading towards oh, about 30 deer that I had seen earlier in a field about 3 km away. That was the end of feeling like a prick. I think it was a button buck actually probably 3/4 the size of its mom already. I rigged up a hasty meat pole and had her skinned and in the truck in short order. About an inch of fat on that deer! One of the best tasting mowich I've had.

Its an individual choice and I, even after getting bawled at... that was a little much.. lol, am down with taking either or a doe and this yrs half grown fawn in areas where they are very (too?) abundant and causing native mule deer grief. In fact in a couple weeks I may just shoot another antlerless white tail 8-)

[GoatGuy]

what's there to say.
whitetail aren't "invasive" like perch.
they are native animals going about their daily business.
they are simply acting like humans and moving about.
should we be killed because we've expanded our territory and harmed the existing wildlife in those areas?
tough titty if the mulies are the lesser animal, they can move to other areas themselves, no one is forcing them to stay where they are.
and I love mulies, they are my favourite game animal to persue.
but I hate the mentality of hunters who are pissed off because "other" species are also endangering their favourite animal.
if the mulies are is such a declining state, then why are we not getting stricter on hunting them?
I would hate that, but wouldn't that make some sense?

and the cattle allowed to free range are a million times more invasive on the feed in those areas than a few whitetail.
go out where the cattle are, all the ground in the areas is chewed right to the ground.
look on the other side of the fence, and it's lush and thick, until they are then moved over to that area.
i'd say that has more affect on the mule deer than the very small pockets of wt that have broadened.
I know in a few areas where I hunt, there was never any wt before, but now there are small pockets there.
but, they are very contained to specific pockets in those areas.
it's like they've found their suitable terrain and that's where I see them every time, in those small areas.
they are definitely not running rampant throughout the areas and seen everywhere like the mulies.

i'm not saying that wt aren't affecting the mulies.
but wouldn't closing mule deer seasons help greatly in helping their numbers?
why is the answer always to kill more animals?
and what if, by some chance, the mulies never recovered, and just kept dwindling?
is it better then, to have increased our killing of wt also, so that we then have less of everything overall?
obviously, thinning the wt populations is an answer and it works.
but people shouldn't be chastised for "not" taking a doe when they can.

Ok, now I understand your 'perspective'. It's inconsistent with 'nature', evolution, biology, and management but I understand. You may want to consider reading up on mule and white-tailed deer evolution and management to help inform your opinion.

[GoatGuy]

Salty, some good stuff there.

[hare_assassin]

Based on the info in this thread, I've changed my opinion on harvesting does with fawns. Thanks for informing me, everyone.

I'm getting really amped up about getting out there and finding some now!

[adriaticum]

Based on the info in this thread, I've changed my opinion on harvesting does with fawns. Thanks for informing me, everyone.

I'm getting really amped up about getting out there and finding some now!

Going for mulies in a few hours for 3 days.
I'm so excited I don't know if it's natural :mrgreen:

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Duallie-You're assuming that our mule deer hunting seasons have an impact on the mule deer populations. Other than areas like the Peace where they had open seasons on mule deer does, we don't have much of an affect at all.


SSS

[hare_assassin]

Going for mulies in a few hours for 3 days.
I'm so excited I don't know if it's natural :mrgreen:

Oh it's natural, all right.

Just wait till you knock one over. The adrenaline is un-friggin-believable. GOOD LUCK!

[JIL_24/7]

I leave for the Clinton area on Sunday for a few days. Anyone got any info on where the WT gather around the area? I would take one in a heartbeat for my freezer.

[Singleshotneeded]

And good luck to you too, Hare Assasin! :-D

[GoatGuy]

Don't know the country well, but saw a couple near Jesmond in June.

[hare_assassin]

And good luck to you too, Hare Assasin! :-D

Thanks!

If B-rad comes through on his offer... well, let's just say that's the kind of luck I need. ;)

[adriaticum]

Oh it's natural, all right.

Just wait till you knock one over. The adrenaline is un-friggin-believable. GOOD LUCK!

Good luck to all, let the weekend roll!!!

[Walking Buffalo]

Come this time of year, fawns are long weaned and can survive just fine without mom, so if I was by myself, I'd take the doe. No problem if there was another hunter with me that wanted the doe, I'd try for a double and take the fawn. They are indeed an invasive critter and the whole point of these seasons is to actually kill them and knock the invasion back a bit. People have to start getting over the 'Bambi' ideals that Disney put in their heads. By pulling the pin on a whitetail doe, it is true conservation at work. Help struggling mule deer herds and whack and stack some tastey whiteys for the freezer. I certainly am going to try to do my part every chance I can get. I'm looking forward to the new regs for Region 3 for next year when we'll be able to shoot 2 does per season. If you only shoot a buck, it does nothing to stop the invasion. It just takes one animal out of the herd. Shoot a doe and you could be taking countless deer out of the herd as a doe can produce does that produce does, all of which can have numerous fawns throughout their lifetimes. Do we want to see a day when mule deer are talked about in folklore or do we want to do something to help them out. As hunters, these seasons are one of the best tools we have to really make a difference.

Here's a picture of the Region 3 whitetail doe I shot last year. She was very tastey!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/PA200096.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BCBOY/media/PA200096.jpg.html)



I disagree on calling WTs an invasive species to BC. It is more appropriate to describe their recent range expansion as a return to former grounds. Remember where MD originated from, a cross of BTs and WTs from when WT's last encroached into this part of N. America. Having said that it is simply a human influenced wildlife management decision whether to limit or slow down the WT's invasion into previously held territory, there is no wrong answer in the big picture. For the sake of MD it is likely a good decision to keep the WTs in check.





I would never shoot a doe and leave the fawn.. it will die by its self.

Orphaned fawns exhibit about a 15% increased mortality rate compared to fawns remaining in the company of their mothers during the first winter. It's not a significant factor.

[bandit]

I leave for the Clinton area on Sunday for a few days. Anyone got any info on where the WT gather around the area? I would take one in a heartbeat for my freezer.

Very few WTs in the Clinton area. If you are specifically looking for whities you need to go further east for a reasonable chance of success.

[Stéphane]

Very good thread. Nice different views. But in essence, the end result is meat in the freezer.
On a selfish point of view, I would prefer to be bow only for does. Sorry :twisted:

[cmarrie]

Should be more than a few harvested this long weekend. Good luck everyone. WT great eating. Fill those tags if you got 'em.

[dana]

Walking buffalo,
We once had camels, pronghorn and true wild horses as well. Pre-ice age of course. Does that mean we should encourage them again? White tails have been around long before the ice age. They once roamed from the arctic to the southern tip of South America. Many things have changed since those days. Do we want to be conservationalists or do we want to sit idly by and watch some species disappear? You can have your head in the sand like Dualy or you can be a positive member of conservation. One thing though, if you do nothing, you have no right to bitch. If I ever see Dualy bitch about not getting a mule deer and how we need to change seasons blah blah blah like I see a lot of members on this site do, I will remind him that since he has chosen to 'let nature take it's course' he better just shut up and let her do her thing.

[GoatGuy]

The reason we have wt's in large swaths of BC is because of people. Agriculture, logging and fire surpression have all contributed to the proliferation of the species.

The isn't "Mother Nature", that's people.

[dana]

One can also argue that Global Warming has something to do with it too. We have not had our deep snow years for a long time now. Muleys are way better adapted for snow in the mountains. Stotting works to their benefit. Lots of distance gain with very little effort applied. White tails on the other hand, yard up in deep snow and are easy prey for predators. If we are indeed the cause of the so-called Global Warming, then one can argue that we have got in the way of nature's own natural selection when it comes to white tails

[GoatGuy]

One can also argue that Global Warming has something to do with it too. We have not had our deep snow years for a long time now. Muleys are way better adapted for snow in the mountains. Stotting works to their benefit. Lots of distance gain with very little effort applied. White tails on the other hand, yard up in deep snow and are easy prey for predators. If we are indeed the cause of the so-called Global Warming, then one can argue that we have got in the way of nature's own natural selection when it comes to white tails

WT's are suspected to be one of the species to benefit from global warming.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

WT's are suspected to be one of the species to benefit from global warming.

It's been cooling since 1998 so hopefully the scales are tipping back in favour of the mulies....hopefully.

SSS

[GoatGuy]

It's been cooling since 1998 so hopefully the scales are tipping back in favour of the mulies....hopefully.

SSS

Most of the benefit will be realized at the northern end of their range (ie northern BC, yukon etc). For 'us', agriculture and fire surpression are the killers.

[Jim Prawn]

Dana; "Stotting works to their benefit"
Aha! Another biologist in the group! Busted! What are you doing with your degree? I am a carpenter. LOL.
JP

[HarryToolips]

Just remember folks that moose weren't native to southern BC either.. we shouldn't think of goin nuts on the WT population just because mulies are "native"..I'm in the bush alot and see alot more mulies, I know whities are not as easy to see as their really skiddish but from my and many others observation the current doe season is doin it's job of suppression on they're pops, EXCEPT around certain agriculture areas and towns (like Grand Forks) where ya increase the bag limit to 2 doe but if they do it everywhere there will be a bunch of hunters scratchin their ass after Nov 10 because Muley season is over and their aint many WT to hunt anymore during the best time of year: the WT rut!!

[dana]

Nope, not a Bio. Just a forestry wood tick with a degree in Adventure Outdoor Pursuits. ;)

[Walking Buffalo]

Walking buffalo,
We once had camels, pronghorn and true wild horses as well. Pre-ice age of course. Does that mean we should encourage them again? White tails have been around long before the ice age. They once roamed from the arctic to the southern tip of South America. Many things have changed since those days. Do we want to be conservationalists or do we want to sit idly by and watch some species disappear? You can have your head in the sand like Dualy or you can be a positive member of conservation. One thing though, if you do nothing, you have no right to bitch. If I ever see Dualy bitch about not getting a mule deer and how we need to change seasons blah blah blah like I see a lot of members on this site do, I will remind him that since he has chosen to 'let nature take it's course' he better just shut up and let her do her thing.


Our N. American Camels and Horses are extinct, not much else to say about them in this scenario. If Pronghorns expanded their range into BC I would not call them an Invasive species, just as I won't call Elk, Moose nor Wood Bison an Invasive Species.


My earlier post already commented on the rest of your questions here. As you say, " Many things have changed since those days." The only constant in the world is change.

[dana]

Just remember folks that moose weren't native to southern BC either.. we shouldn't think of goin nuts on the WT population just because mulies are "native"..I'm in the bush alot and see alot more mulies, I know whities are not as easy to see as their really skiddish but from my and many others observation the current doe season is doin it's job of suppression on they're pops, EXCEPT around certain agriculture areas and towns (like Grand Forks) where ya increase the bag limit to 2 doe but if they do it everywhere there will be a bunch of hunters scratchin their ass after Nov 10 because Muley season is over and their aint many WT to hunt anymore during the best time of year: the WT rut!!

The 2 doe limit is being proposed for Region 3. I won't be scratching my ass after Nov 10th, as that is when the best Muley hunting is. A full month of great hunting as a matter of fact. I'll kill 2 whitey does for the freezer and hunt Muley bucks with my third tag till season closes on the 10th of Dec. :)

[HarryToolips]

The 2 doe limit is being proposed for Region 3. I won't be scratching my ass after Nov 10th, as that is when the best Muley hunting is. A full month of great hunting as a matter of fact. I'll kill 2 whitey does for the freezer and hunt Muley bucks with my third tag till season closes on the 10th of Dec. :)
Your right but it closes for us Okanagan hunters Nov 10

[Redneck Rocket]

AHHHHH!!!! I missed another chance today. Popped out for the last 40 minutes of light. Stalked into a good area I frequent, settled myself into a good spot with cover and good sightlines, and 10 seconds later, something took off from very close by. Must have been scent because I had finished making noise. I can't believe it!

[dana]

Maybe the Region 8 guys should push for the same bag limits as Region 3 then. 3 deer Regional Limit and you wouldn't have to sit out the end of the season if you choose to shoot a whitetail doe.

[139grainsofhell]

So I'm hunting reg 8 today and I run into a hunter walking a road wearing jeans camo jacket and bright red sneakers he waves me down and says .. Hey you see those blacktails.... I say blacktails? Nothing but Muleys here pal then asks me where he can find white deer doe!!! Do you mean whitetail doe? No he says I'm looking for white deer!!!.......ummm okay couldn't help but laugh and sent him to an area with white deer lol

[kyleklassen]

8 pages and one pic from last year???

[coach]

Maybe the Region 8 guys should push for the same bag limits as Region 3 then. 3 deer Regional Limit and you wouldn't have to sit out the end of the season if you choose to shoot a whitetail doe.

I believe we are working on that one, Dana.

[Salty]

8 pages and one pic from last year???

here's another for ya looks fresh gotta be this year

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSKDUPcAOLWqkb4bLpHOjTJyCK8yyo7o kzeSZXQAralKNkjqns7nQ

[Mulemadness]

Opening morning wt doe, finds me stalking a known wt travel route from food to bed, I have seen many wt in the area as it boarders a large hay field and have high hopes of a large buck outta the area this season.... If I can take my mind off mulies long enough.. Anyways. As I slowly creep along I catch movement along a well used trail, immediately I crouch beside the nearest tree, I watch intently as a fat wt doe slowly works her way toward my direction. I waited intell she worked her way into a shoot able spot and let her have it, she immediately hit the dirt. Now the work began, I cleaned and skinned her and hiked out for my quad, into the butcher she went 148 on the hook. The tenderloins were delicious and I'm looking very forward to having her in my freezer and being able to focus on a buck worth shooting. Unfortunately I left my phone in the truck and didn't take any pictures but I'm sure everyone's seen a dead wt lol

[BigBuck5]

Hi there , im new to the site so forgive me if im posting in the wrong forum, but Im having troubles finding whitetails in the kimberley area. Last year i was here and there were tons, this year not so much. Trying to get my buddy his first deer. If anybody knows places to go itd b much appreciated. Again forgive me if im posting thus in the wrong forum.

[mbhjls79]

got my region 8 dry doe tonight... sorry.. don't take photo's of doe's... its like having a collection of photo's from flat chested ex girlfriends....:wink:

[sawmill]

Hi there , im new to the site so forgive me if im posting in the wrong forum, but Im having troubles finding whitetails in the kimberley area. Last year i was here and there were tons, this year not so much. Trying to get my buddy his first deer. If anybody knows places to go itd b much appreciated. Again forgive me if im posting thus in the wrong forum.
Since I am stuck in Kelowna for 2 more weeks and in a generous mood .....here goes.Perry Creek road out by Wycliff.It forks,one goes left(perry creek) the other goes right (River road)takes you right back to St. Marys lake and to town.Check out the side roads heading towards the river.Tomlinson Road out Meadowbrook way,the road forks,either one is a good bet,the right hand one takes you out to Lost Dog forest road.Good luck and think of me when you get your deer.Joe

[chola]

To each their own, I will take a delicious w/t doe over a stinky November bonehead anytime. Just dined tonight on the last of my big dry w/t doe from last year, and yesterday I put another tasty w/t doe in the freezer.

X2 ....never found a good recipe to make antlers taste good

[Glenny]

That's funny I'm actually heading there on Monday for a week I wonder if I will be the only hunter in the area lol...or one of the thousands

Spike/fork moose open on the 15th Expect company.

[chola]

To each their own, I will take a delicious w/t doe over a stinky November bonehead anytime. Just dined tonight on the last of my big dry w/t doe from last year, and yesterday I put another tasty w/t doe in the freezer.

X2 ....never found a good recipe to make antlers taste good

[Brizz]

Struggling to find a whitey in 8-8. Saw 15 mulies this morning (1 buck) but zero whitetails in an area that is supposedly decent for whiteys. I heard about 13 kills between 7:30-9 this morning... Kind of depressing - at least I've already cut my mulie tag.

[sawmill]

X2 ....never found a good recipe to make antlers taste good

Nice thing about here is I can take a doe and still hunt for a beasty boy in late November.The buck I got last year was on Nov. 11,excellent eating,no stink to him at all.I get home on Oct. 25,I can hardly wait.

[ruger#1]

For many years the Columbian Blacktail Deer has been considered a subspecies of the Mule deer, however recent DNA testing has proven this not to be the case. In Valerius Geist's informative book Mule Deer Country he explains that by testing the mitochondrial DNA (the mothers DNA ) of the three species (blacktail, whitetail and mule deer), researchers have now determined that it was the mating of Whitetail does, and Blacktail buck's, that gave rise to the Mule deer and not the opposite as was once suspected.
.
Many now believe that millions of years ago the Whitetail expanded its range down the east coast of the United States, across Mexico and up the West coast where it evolved into the Columbian Blacktail. This migration and relationship may help explain the strong resemblance in appearance and psychological characteristics between the Blacktail and Whitetail.

Thousands of years later the recently evolved Blacktail's range spread eastward from the Pacific coast and the Whitetail's range again expanded westward. As some point the two deer species met again and the Blacktail bucks, displaced the Whitetail bucks, and bred the Whitetail does. Many researches now believe it is this hybridization that produced what is now known as the Mule Deer.

So how in the hell would a whitetail be an invasive species?

[dana]

Since you have the book, how would Geist answer that question?

[one-shot-wonder]

Maybe the Region 8 guys should push for the same bag limits as Region 3 then. 3 deer Regional Limit and you wouldn't have to sit out the end of the season if you choose to shoot a whitetail doe.

It was attempted the past couple years and will be submitted again for consideration. Long overdue, as we experience how resilient and prolific the WT is.
Not all regions are blessed to have a pragmatic, forward thinking WILDLIFE biologist such as Proctor.......

[hare_assassin]

This whole thread is a waste of time. The "tons of WTs, get out and get them" thing is a conspiracy of some sort. My buddy and I spent the weekend in a "WT honey hole" and...

...my buddy got a 4x4 mulie buck. We could have had one each, but I cut my tag on opening day.

Didn't see a single WT. Going to another region next weekend to knock down another mulie buck. Far better odds of that happening.

[hare_assassin]

Struggling to find a whitey in 8-8. Saw 15 mulies this morning (1 buck) but zero whitetails in an area that is supposedly decent for whiteys. I heard about 13 kills between 7:30-9 this morning... Kind of depressing - at least I've already cut my mulie tag.

It's a lie. There are no WTs. If there were so damned many of them, people would be openly stating where they are and everyone would get a couple. That guy that got the 7x8 buck wasn't in region 3. I'm guessing he was in Minnesota.

[hare_assassin]

...as we experience how resilient and prolific the WT is.

They are as prolific as leprechans.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

They adapt well to hunting pressure....and they're not easy to hunt this time of year.

Don't use the same tactics as you would for mule deer.

SSS

[lovemywinchester]

This whole thread is a waste of time. The "tons of WTs, get out and get them" thing is a conspiracy of some sort. My buddy and I spent the weekend in a "WT honey hole" and...

...my buddy got a 4x4 mulie buck. We could have had one each, but I cut my tag on opening day.

Didn't see a single WT. Going to another region next weekend to knock down another mulie buck. Far better odds of that happening.


Hare_ass, here are a few pics from the previous three seasons. All region 3 around the Loops. You may want to try a bit harder. Whitie does are like pretty girls, they smell desperation and negativity and avoid it. Get positive.

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/wt-2.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/wt-2.jpg.html)

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/PaulsWT1.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/PaulsWT1.jpg.html)

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/doe-2.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/doe-2.jpg.html)

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/003-3.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/003-3.jpg.html)




http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/doe-1.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/doe-1.jpg.html)











(http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/doe-1.jpg.html)

[lovemywinchester]

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/whiteydoe3.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/whiteydoe3.jpg.html)

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/warrenwhitetailgood2.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/warrenwhitetailgood2.jpg.html)

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/whitey2.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/whitey2.jpg.html)

Click pic for vid
http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/th_Whitetail_zps77898526.jpg (http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/Whitetail_zps77898526.mp4)

http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l573/zippogold/goodwt.jpg (http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/goodwt.jpg.html)

[hare_assassin]

Hare_ass, here are a few pics from the previous three seasons. All region 3 around the Loops. You may want to try a bit harder. Whitie does are like pretty girls, they smell desperation and negativity and avoid it. Get positive.

(http://s1124.photobucket.com/user/zippogold/media/doe-1.jpg.html)

I was out for 11 hours on both Sunday and Monday. Don't know how much harder I can try than that.

I can tell those photos were taken in Wisconsin.

[GoatGuy]

Since you have the book, how would Geist answer that question?

Geist is not a big fan of wt's...... that is the 'politically correct version'

[lovemywinchester]

I was out for 11 hours on both Sunday and Monday. Don't know how much harder I can try than that.

I can tell those photos were taken in Wisconsin.

I would have gone for 12, no big deal.:)

[GoatGuy]

There are two types of wt deer hunters.

One is the guy who hikes or drives around. He generally sees a few or quite a few deer, BUT shot opportunities are few and far between.

The other hunter sits, often doesn't see as many deer but has shot opportunities on virtually all of them.

If you want to see deer, be on the move - if you want to shoot deer sit.

[hare_assassin]

There are two types of wt deer hunters.

One is the guy who hikes or drives around. He generally sees a few or quite a few deer, BUT shot opportunities are few and far between.

The other hunter sits, often doesn't see as many deer but has shot opportunities on virtually all of them.

If you want to see deer, be on the move - if you want to shoot deer sit.

The only way I could ever be convinced to sit and wait in some spot for WTs is if I had actually seen them there. Since I never see any, it's very unlikely that I will just go sit somewhere...

I guess WT hunting just isn't for me. I dunno. Good thing there's plenty of mulies out there. Hell, I see them by the dozens.

I still wish everyone the best of luck hunting WTs. You're going to need a lot more luck than I have.

[GoatGuy]

The only way I could ever be convinced to sit and wait in some spot for WTs is if I had actually seen them there. Since I never see any, it's very unlikely that I will just go sit somewhere...

I guess WT hunting just isn't for me. I dunno. Good thing there's plenty of mulies out there. Hell, I see them by the dozens.

I still wish everyone the best of luck hunting WTs. You're going to need a lot more luck than I have.

It's a circular problem then, cause you probably won't see any if you won't sit, but you won't sit if you haven't seen any. Seems you might be putting the cart before the horse. :wink:

For wt's look for lots of deciduous, low lying areas, gulleys, river bottoms, etc with game trails in the bottom of them. Saskatoon bushes, serviceberry, ceaonthus, snowbrush. Often adjacent to ag land works as well. Find a vantage point where the wind is in your favour and sit. You don't need to be able to see far, just have to see the trail.

[hare_assassin]

It's a circular problem then, cause you probably won't see any if you won't sit, but you won't sit if you haven't seen any. Seems you might be putting the cart before the horse. :wink:

For wt's look for lots of deciduous, low lying areas, gulleys, river bottoms, etc with game trails in the bottom of them. Saskatoon bushes, serviceberry, ceaonthus, snowbrush. Often adjacent to ag land works as well. Find a vantage point where the wind is in your favour and sit. You don't need to be able to see far, just have to see the trail.

Yep. Sounds exactly like what everyone else has said (and I don't doubt that it is true). Thing is, I've done it. Repeatedly. Never seen a single WT doing that.

The only WTs I've ever seen in BC were a group of does way up by Bonaparte. They just stood on the road like mulie does. Would have been easy to shoot them. In fact my friend and I got out of the truck and pretended like were were going to shoot them. They just stood there. This all happened 3 days after the season closed (last year), of course.

I'm cursed. I'm sure of it.

[aggiehunter]

...invasive species...balderdash....that's dalmation toadflax...not whities...nothing like carpet bombing a species...you guys will figure it out one day....see...kicking dirt and scratching head..

[GoatGuy]

...invasive species...balderdash....that's dalmation toadflax...not whities...nothing like carpet bombing a species...you guys will figure it out one day....see...kicking dirt and scratching head..4

It is sometimes difficult to bridge the gap between science and personal beliefs.

[dana]

Went out to look for white tails on the weekend. Saturday saw one at about a min past first light. I wasn't near close to where I was heading and that one caught me off guard. It bailed downslope. I jumped it right as I stepped into the bush. They always tell ya where they are heading and it seems they like to fish hook back. I've killed many by not following them and circling around them to catch them watching their back trail. This time the frosty conditions ment it could hear me and let me get less than 50 yards before it went back uphill. It blew numerous times as it went away from me allowing me to pin point the exact direction it was going. Yet another fish hook. I played the gme one more time but crunchy conditions were my downfall. I gave up after it fish hooked for a third time. On Sunday I saw 3 at first light with much wetter conditions. But hard to play the fish hook game when the fog only lets you see 20 yards. So another unsuccessful hunt. I'm not worried as there still is plenty of season left.

[dana]

There are two types of wt deer hunters.

One is the guy who hikes or drives around. He generally sees a few or quite a few deer, BUT shot opportunities are few and far between.

The other hunter sits, often doesn't see as many deer but has shot opportunities on virtually all of them.

If you want to see deer, be on the move - if you want to shoot deer sit.

I have no patience for sitting and have had no problem killing them while hiking. Have killed plenty while road hunting too. They are not as smart as some give them credit for.

[dana]

...invasive species...balderdash....that's dalmation toadflax...not whities...nothing like carpet bombing a species...you guys will figure it out one day....see...kicking dirt and scratching head..

20 years ago I saw my first whitetail here in the Clearwater area. My FIL had been born and raised here and had never seen one. He told me I must have misID it. A week later he saw one and believed me. For several years after that, seeing them was extremely rare and most locals wouldn't even buy a tag. But 20 short years later, they are common place. My hunting buddy observed my family's success last year and commented to me. He said, most years he sees me and my kids fill the freezer with Muleys. Last year we had 3 white tails in the freezer and only 1 Muley. A drastic change. So don't tell me those little buggers ain't invasive.

[GoatGuy]

I have no patience for sitting and have had no problem killing them while hiking. Have killed plenty while road hunting too. They are not as smart as some give them credit for.

Hahaha, you have more time, hunt harder and know more about hunting that most hunters. Not a fair comparison.

[butcher]

I hunt the same areas as Dana and will agree there are more every year. I go out expecting to kill whitetail deer. Unfortunately, like wolves, we aren't going to kill enough by hunting them to make a difference. Steve you better start changing your favorite species to hunt. The scales are tipping.

[dana]

The sad thing is it seems the wolves don't like the taste of them or maybe the meal is so small it's not worth the effort?? But they have come out of this wolf epidemic in fine form. Crazy to see does with 3 fawns survive the winter in areas that have been chalked full of wolves.

[butcher]

Well I have five weeks of holidays coming and a young son with a license And a pocket full of tags. We will be trying to put a dent in some of the local pockets.

[lovemywinchester]

I hunt the same areas as Dana and will agree there are more every year. I go out expecting to kill whitetail deer. Unfortunately, like wolves, we aren't going to kill enough by hunting them to make a difference. Steve you better start changing your favorite species to hunt. The scales are tipping.

Are you the gutpile chaser hes always talking about?:mrgreen:

[aggiehunter]

if you think hunting does not have an impact think again..Goatguys analysis was correct...hunters have come out of the woodwork to shoot wt does...and guys are travelling to kill them...we have seen a marked decline already and I am not alone in that theory...I won't argue that they have moved to other neighbourhoods....after all British Columbia is the ethnic melting pot so treat them with respect please.

[dana]

The numbers show too few hunters are shooting does. Plain and simple. The whole point of these seasons is for it to have an effect. To have an effect we need to encourage all hunters to hunt them. If you are going to get bent out of shape over terms like plague or infestation or invasion you've missed the whole point. If you live rural you've probably experienced a year where you have been invaded by mice. Mice are natural to BC and have many reasons to live here forever, but you don't like them invading your house now do ya?

[aggiehunter]

Dana...why quote numbers you simply cannot get? And yes if a whitetail wants to eat your carrots you may have to do something...if he's breaking into your house well out comes the trap.

[aggiehunter]

and Yes I do find it offensive when hunters refer to a quality game animal as a rat or invasive...

[dana]

I really could care less if those terms offend you. I don't live my life trying to appease easily offended people. I'm sure those rats need someone to love them. As for numbers, the bios have them from the harvest data. And they say not enough hunters are taking advantage of the whitetail doe season. If you have seen some local pressure, that is just that local.

[one-shot-wonder]

It's a lie. There are no WTs. If there were so damned many of them, people would be openly stating where they are and everyone would get a couple. That guy that got the 7x8 buck wasn't in region 3. I'm guessing he was in Minnesota.

If your that upset that you dont see something while out hunting maybe you should just watch the NFL and buy porkbutt. Whatever happened to embracing a challenge, isnt that what hunting is......or do you expect to go driving and shooting instead.....thats not what I consider hunting to be.

The timing of your response is ironic, I spent the better part of last evening on the phone with unhappy hunters with the same sentiment. The concerned felt that the WT doe season has made all the WT's nocturnal and impossible to hunt......sounds similar.....rather just drive around and shoot, then adapt and change ones pursute to be successful.

[hare_assassin]

If your that upset that you dont see something while out hunting maybe you should just watch the NFL and buy porkbutt. Whatever happened to embracing a challenge, isnt that what hunting is......or do you expect to go driving and shooting instead.....thats not what I consider hunting to be.

The timing of your response is ironic, I spent the better part of last evening on the phone with unhappy hunters with the same sentiment. The concerned felt that the WT doe season has made all the WT's nocturnal and impossible to hunt......sounds similar.....rather just drive around and shoot, then adapt and change ones pursute to be successful.

Apparently you have no sarcasometer. My recent posts in this thread are in jest. You know, tongue-in-cheek?

Then you insinuate that I just drive and shoot and that I should waste my time watching sports on TV? I don't even subscribe to "TV", and I do plenty of hike-hunting, from August through April.

And no, hunting is not about the challenge for me. It is about the meat.

[hare_assassin]

And they say not enough hunters are taking advantage of the whitetail doe season.

That interpretation might be a bit off. I think it is a matter of lack of success, rather than "not taking advantage". In other words, if everyone was as successful at hunting WTs as they are at hunting MDs, we could easily control the WT population. I know lots of people who try to put 2 WTs in the freezer every year. They never see them. I know quite a few hunters (friends, co-workers, etc.) and not a single one of them has ever killed a WT in BC. It is not because they don't try.

[skibum]

And they say not enough hunters are taking advantage of the whitetail doe season.

It is a learning curve maybe. We have not learned how to hunt them properly yet --- hunting them like they are mulies still?

[hare_assassin]

It is a learning curve maybe. We have not learned how to hunt them properly yet --- hunting them like they are mulies still?

In my experience, it has been much easier to find friends, mentors, etc. who are willing to show how to hunt mulies than WTs (obviously since none have them have ever killed one). If this persists, the WT learning curve will persist and the WT population will continue to go out of control. Perhaps some day there will be so many that it will be easier to find them. By that time, the mulies will have moved on...

[ruger#1]

In my experience, it has been much easier to find friends, mentors, etc. who are willing to show how to hunt mulies than WTs (obviously since none have them have ever killed one). If this persists, the WT learning curve will persist and the WT population will continue to go out of control. Perhaps some day there will be so many that it will be easier to find them. By that time, the mulies will have moved on...
If the whitetails breed with the blacktails as stated then you get a hybred called a mule deer. So let the whitetails come.

[aggiehunter]

Dana, some people love wildlife..some dont'...not really offended just kinda sad for people who call one of our most beautiful deer names like in a school yard..and as far as harvest data just remember what the polls said about the last election...and they are probably more accurate than the harvest data cards.

[Looking_4_Jerky]

I would agree that the term "invasive" is being used erroneously in the case of WT deer. Just because a species out-competes another in an ecological niche doesn't make it invasive. In fact, it's an indicator of fitness. Certain conditions clearly favor MD. If this was not true, the species would never have evolved. The sustainable way to bolster MD populations is to recreate conditions where mule deer have a clear advantage. Unfortunately, this is usually difficult or impossible to do.

The broadening of WT range is the manifestation of the biological response to our anthropogenically manipulated systems - The fact that WT is the "fitter" of the species to be where there were once only mule deer. The encouragement of hunting as a management tool to maintain a MD favored range is a band-aid solution. It would be fine as an interim measure while we were actively recreating heavily MD favoring conditions (controlled burns and controlled predation are the only two that I can think of that people can do), but in the absence of those initiatives, it will fail.

Conservation biology is not about restricting as many of the competitive forces as possible on a species. That fits more under the definition of a "conservation reliant species". Be careful though, we usually aren't allowed to hunt for those - especially under GOS.

[GoatGuy]

Dana, some people love wildlife..some dont'...not really offended just kinda sad for people who call one of our most beautiful deer names like in a school yard..and as far as harvest data just remember what the polls said about the last election...and they are probably more accurate than the harvest data cards.

Demonstrate, statistically, how election polls are "probably" more accurate than harvest data cards.

[GoatGuy]

I would agree that the term "invasive" is being used erroneously in the case of WT deer. Just because a species out-competes another in an ecological niche doesn't make it invasive. In fact, it's an indicator of fitness. Certain conditions clearly favor MD. If this was not true, the species would never have evolved. The sustainable way to bolster MD populations is to recreate conditions where mule deer have a clear advantage. Unfortunately, this is usually difficult or impossible to do.

The broadening of WT range is the manifestation of the biological response to our anthropogenically manipulated systems - The fact that WT is the "fitter" of the species to be where there were once only mule deer. The encouragement of hunting as a management tool to maintain a MD favored range is a band-aid solution. It would be fine as an interim measure while we were actively recreating heavily MD favoring conditions (controlled burns and controlled predation are the only two that I can think of that people can do), but in the absence of those initiatives, it will fail.

Conservation biology is not about restricting as many of the competitive forces as possible on a species. That fits more under the definition of a "conservation reliant species". Be careful though, we usually aren't allowed to hunt for those - especially under GOS.

Wow, this is an intelligent response. Thanks for your contribution! :-D

[dana]

That interpretation might be a bit off. I think it is a matter of lack of success, rather than "not taking advantage". In other words, if everyone was as successful at hunting WTs as they are at hunting MDs, we could easily control the WT population. I know lots of people who try to put 2 WTs in the freezer every year. They never see them. I know quite a few hunters (friends, co-workers, etc.) and not a single one of them has ever killed a WT in BC. It is not because they don't try.

The harvest data cards do not just track harvest but they also track hunter days afield. The bios say that hunters are not taking advantage of these new seasons. I personally believe them. Thus the reason I am beating the drum to encourage the hunters on this site to go out and target whitetail does. More people read these threads than the same ol people that respond to them.

[aggiehunter]

Goatguy to find that election polls work better than harvest data cards would require a poll/study and that probablitliy is limited....with E licencing it wll be easy for hunters to report harvest (all harvest) Dana , we should give WT's a bit of a break as they were here first.

[GoatGuy]

Goatguy to find that election polls work better than harvest data cards would require a poll/study and that probablitliy is limited....with E licencing it wll be easy for hunters to report harvest (all harvest) Dana , we should give WT's a bit of a break as they were here first.

No it would not require a poll or study, a knowledge of social sciences and simple statistics would demonstrate the results.

You called it, so please prove it - it takes two seconds.

[dana]

Goatguy to find that election polls work better than harvest data cards would require a poll/study and that probablitliy is limited....with E licencing it wll be easy for hunters to report harvest (all harvest) Dana , we should give WT's a bit of a break as they were here first.

The problem is we've been giving the whitetail a break for decades and many traditional mule deer areas in this province have been taken completely over and the muleys are a mere shadow of what used to be. That is why the wildlife managers all got together and came up with these new whitetail seasons. But it seems you would rather discourage hunters from taking part in these seasons because you 'like' whitetails. If you think for one moment that these seasons are going to make the whitetail disappear, you are sadly mistaken. What it will do is take a little pressure off of the winter range and allow a few more muleys to live in good habitat instead of being pushed into $hitty habitat. And in areas like Region 3, where whitetails have taken hold but have not yet overtaken traditional mule deer range, it will keep that country mule deer country for a little bit longer. So I really don't know why you think I should give them a break. They are tastey and hunters should be encouraged to hunt them as much as they can. And on a side note, it has been proven in many many many jurisdictions in NA that if you keep a control on their numbers through doe harvest, you actually grow bigger bucks. Imagine that. As I believe that truly is the reason for your postings. You want to discourage hunters from harvesting does as you think it will affect your chances at shooting a whitetail buck. Wrong. It will actually help you kill much bigger buck in the future.

[coach]

The problem is we've been giving the whitetail a break for decades and many traditional mule deer areas in this province have been taken completely over and the muleys are a mere shadow of what used to be. That is why the wildlife managers all got together and came up with these new whitetail seasons. But it seems you would rather discourage hunters from taking part in these seasons because you 'like' whitetails. If you think for one moment that these seasons are going to make the whitetail disappear, you are sadly mistaken. What it will do is take a little pressure off of the winter range and allow a few more muleys to live in good habitat instead of being pushed into $hitty habitat. And in areas like Region 3, where whitetails have taken hold but have not yet overtaken traditional mule deer range, it will keep that country mule deer country for a little bit longer. So I really don't know why you think I should give them a break. They are tastey and hunters should be encouraged to hunt them as much as they can. And on a side note, it has been proven in many many many jurisdictions in NA that if you keep a control on their numbers through doe harvest, you actually grow bigger bucks. Imagine that. As I believe that truly is the reason for your postings. You want to discourage hunters from harvesting does as you think it will affect your chances at shooting a whitetail buck. Wrong. It will actually help you kill much bigger buck in the future.

Quit using science, logic and reasoning... Many people find that tact offensive..:-D

[one-shot-wonder]

Dana is bang on.....and read Aggie like a book.

Once the current R8 bio moves on, my anticipation is that the OK will move to a more liberal WT season to keep pops at bay and enable more hunter participation. Both of which have lagged behind R3 & R4. It is pretty imbarrassing that R3 has a better become more engaged in the process and has changed the regional bag lmit to promote more WT harvest and R8 has ignore the call for this 3 years in a row.

[Sitkaspruce]

Quit using science, logic and reasoning... Many people find that tact offensive..:-D

LOL!!!! What a novel idea if peope would actually embrace that idea, instead of ME, ME, ME and using emotions to dictate how wildlife is to be managed.

I still cannot believe that hunters actual think that hunters are the problem with any wildlife population.......people have to quite pointing fingers at hunters and start pointing fingers and direct their energy at the real reasons we have some concerns; emotional wildlife management, loss of habitat, predator control, loss due to trains and highways, poaching, anti's and unregulated hunting just to name a few.

Killing all age classes and sexes will actual help wildlife, especially the species being targeted. Killing WT does does a few things; provides opputunity for hunters to fill their freezer and enjoy some great meat, spreads out pressure, helps wildlife managers manage increasing populations to stable populations, helps other species and can help reduce pred populations.

We need to get us focused on other factors other than hunters as a cause for any widllife problems.

Nice post Dana!!!

Cheers

SS

[Islandeer]

Those range rats aren't that clever, but in reading some of these posts I would agree that they are at least as smart as the dudes writing them. ( who can't seem to kill them) yawn ....

[hare_assassin]

A good way forward might be for those who have the knack for killing WTs to start sharing that knowledge more freely. Oddly, it seems that this knowledge/info in particular is guarded as a precious secret. As mentioned, I've never met a single hunter in this province who has killed a WT. Most of them have been killing mulies for years. How are we to control the population unless everyone is out there killing as many WTs as mulies?

Perhaps we need an HBC WT mentoring program. I'd gladly participate.

Or is it an access issue? Are the vast majority on private land?

[lovemywinchester]

Expanding on what Dana was saying about bigger WT bucks coming from more does harvested. For those who might not get it. The idea is that with less hot does around the bucks use less energy fighting and mating. More does=more screwing and rutting and way more energy used up going into winter. Less rutting and weight loss obviously allows for better buck winter survival.
The other aspect of this was to kill bigger bucks only and allow the younger ones to walk. This is deer management for big WT bucks.

[wsm]

my group of 5 went out for WT does last weekend . we came home with 2 WT does, 3 WT bucks, and 1 MD buck http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=30464&title=1382157-10202124982743126-1983045501-n&cat=500

[Stone Sheep Steve]

A good way forward might be for those who have the knack for killing WTs to start sharing that knowledge more freely. Oddly, it seems that this knowledge/info in particular is guarded as a precious secret. As mentioned, I've never met a single hunter in this province who has killed a WT. Most of them have been killing mulies for years. How are we to control the population unless everyone is out there killing as many WTs as mulies?

Perhaps we need an HBC WT mentoring program. I'd gladly participate.

Or is it an access issue? Are the vast majority on private land?

There's is more info out there on the WWW. and magazines on hunting whitetails than every other species in the world.....COMBINED.

SSS

[hare_assassin]

my group of 5 went out for WT does last weekend . we came home with 2 WT does, 3 WT bucks, and 1 MD buck http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/showphoto.php?photo=30464&title=1382157-10202124982743126-1983045501-n&cat=500

Congratulations.

[hare_assassin]

There's is more info out there on the WWW. and magazines on hunting whitetails than every other species in the world.....COMBINED.

SSS

Yes. I am aware of this. So then ask yourself why BC hunters have "not been taking advantage of" the generous WT GOS (as mentioned earlier by dana). If all the info they need is out there, then why the low "harvest" rate?

From my perspective, and from talking with the hunters that I actually know (ie. not on the Internet) the problem is that they don't know where they are and rarely, if ever, see them. Some of these guys are in their 60s and have only seen a handful of WTs in their whole lives.

[GoatGuy]

Yes. I am aware of this. So then ask yourself why BC hunters have "not been taking advantage of" the generous WT GOS (as mentioned earlier by dana). If all the info they need is out there, then why the low "harvest" rate?

From my perspective, and from talking with the hunters that I actually know (ie. not on the Internet) the problem is that they don't know where they are and rarely, if ever, see them. Some of these guys are in their 60s and have only seen a handful of WTs in their whole lives.

This is a two-part issue. First, you are indicating there is an issue with 'finding' white-tails. That is something that should perhaps be addressed by the F&W Branch. The places I have seen wt's in Region 3 are generally close to ranches or in valley bottoms (ie the North T, Nicola, even the Botannie valley). The pennask plateau also has a number of wt's. Can look in to more information.

Secondly, we are talking about harvesting wt's. The reason people in BC are less successful is because they hunt wt's like they hunt md. Driving around in the truck or hiking a fir ridge is not the most efficient way to see, hunt or harvest wt's. As a result the success rate is much lower for the md hunter when he tries to hunting wt and he gives up.

[skibum]

There's is more info out there on the WWW. and magazines on hunting whitetails than every other species in the world.....COMBINED. SSS

Agreed and even found it annoying when I first started hunting that most deer hunting materiel focused on WTs. You can read all you want, but there is no substitute to boots on the ground learning from experience.

Although mentoring WT's might be - "see that tree stand over there, sit in it until the end of the day, bye".

[hare_assassin]

This is a two-part issue. First, you are indicating there is an issue with 'finding' white-tails. That is something that should perhaps be addressed by the F&W Branch. The places I have seen wt's in Region 3 are generally close to ranches or in valley bottoms (ie the North T, Nicola, even the Botannie valley). The pennask plateau also has a number of wt's. Can look in to more information.

Secondly, we are talking about harvesting wt's. The reason people in BC are less successful is because they hunt wt's like they hunt md. Driving around in the truck or hiking a fir ridge is not the most efficient way to see, hunt or harvest wt's. As a result the success rate is much lower for the md hunter when he tries to hunting wt and he gives up.

I agree with this assessment of the situation. Let me explain my personal situation.

I have received some generous tips from people on this website about where to go. 3 spots, to be precise. Based on my reading, and seeing photos of areas where they are harvested, 2 of the 3 spots seem very "whitetaily". 1 of the spots is close to home, so I have had the opportunity to spend a lot of time there. I've applied as much of the knowledge as I can and put in some real effort. Nothing. The other spot is further away, and I have only been able to hunt it twice, but not only did I see no WT, I also saw no sign at all. It is strange. The 3rd spot seems more like mule deer country to me, and I suspect it was a wild goose chase. I guess I have to expect some of that.

And you are correct. The result is that I have given up. Spending that kind of time and never even seeing the species being hunted is just something I cannot tolerate. Hunting season is short, and I can't just sit in the woods day after day hoping. Every day I do that is a day I could be in the next region knocking over another MD buck.

I am not one who gives up easily, but I have to admit that at this point in my hunting "career", the WTs still have me beat.

[hare_assassin]

Although mentoring WT's might be - "see that tree stand over there, sit in it until the end of the day, bye".

The only way I could do this is if the only deer GOS was WT. With so many mulies around and relatively good access to GOS in 3 regions, I suspect I'll be focusing on them.

I also suspect this would be the thought process of the vast majority of hunters in BC. Hence, the WT will continue to expand.

[coach]

I agree with this assessment of the situation. Let me explain my personal situation.

I have received some generous tips from people on this website about where to go. 3 spots, to be precise. Based on my reading, and seeing photos of areas where they are harvested, 2 of the 3 spots seem very "whitetaily". 1 of the spots is close to home, so I have had the opportunity to spend a lot of time there. I've applied as much of the knowledge as I can and put in some real effort. Nothing. The other spot is further away, and I have only been able to hunt it twice, but not only did I see no WT, I also saw no sign at all. It is strange. The 3rd spot seems more like mule deer country to me, and I suspect it was a wild goose chase. I guess I have to expect some of that.

And you are correct. The result is that I have given up. Spending that kind of time and never even seeing the species being hunted is just something I cannot tolerate. Hunting season is short, and I can't just sit in the woods day after day hoping. Every day I do that is a day I could be in the next region knocking over another MD buck.

I am not one who gives up easily, but I have to admit that at this point in my hunting "career", the WTs still have me beat.

A few pics on a trail camera might just help you build your confidence enough to sit for a while. I can't imagine not seeing whitetails - I see them pretty much everywhere I go.. Rarely get a chance at a shot when I'm hiking or driving though. As mentioned repeatedly, sitting is the ticket.

[hare_assassin]

A few pics on a trail camera might just help you build your confidence enough to sit for a while. I can't imagine not seeing whitetails - I see them pretty much everywhere I go.. Rarely get a chance at a shot when I'm hiking or driving though. As mentioned repeatedly, sitting is the ticket.

Yep. I'd be OK with sitting all day if I knew without a doubt that they were around. Having never seen them, there is no way for me to know that.

[dana]

Hare assassin,
The best way to find a whitetail is to look for them outside of hunting season. In most of region 3 they do not migrate and live in the exact same locations year round. If you go out looking for them in winter, spring or summer you'll have a better chance at located the pockets where they live. They will be in those same pockets come fall. And since they don't see a bunch of hunting pressure like the whiteys in 4 and 8, they actually are pretty easy to kill once you find and hunt the pockets. I do find it hard to believe you've never seen one in the Loops. I've seen them north, south, east and west of town and in town too. You probably have seen them but haven't stopped and ID them. They quite frequently hang out as a loner in a group of Muleys.

[Jelvis]

Whitetail and mules will breed each other if they feel like it.
I've seen photos of them mounting each other and makin out.
Jel .. The horizontal bop

[Taurusguy]

I seen WT in region 8 several times but they are very fast and very elusive. In 6 years of hunting region 8 I have only seen one WT buck and that was beofre they made WT does GOS. It was so close I could have spit on it. The problem was it had 2 does standing in front of it and the buck was peering over the backs of the does at me behind a brush. I put my gun up in case the oppertunity came available to shoot that buck (was a 4pt too) and it did the exit stage left and the does followed suit covering the buck til it was out of my sight. I stalked them and could hear them but they moved into some really thick stuff and my last sight was a mix of their hooves along the ground and I couldn't decifer which one was the buck. I couldn't keep up to them so I gave up. Since then I have shot mulies in that same spot and have seen very little WT

But I will say this... They LOVE hanging out in the birch trees for some reason always seen them around that s and in the thick but again always does and no bucks.

So I go for mulies first and if I got time I will check out the WT area.

[Captainkf]

QUOTE=Jelvis;1399787]Whitetail and mules will breed each other if they feel like it.
I've seen photos of them mounting each other and makin out.
Jel .. The horizontal bop[/QUOTE]

You've seen photos eh? Sounds a bit dirty to me! Deer porn... Ah, the Internet age.

[aggiehunter]

Dana,,yes they are the tastiest of animals...maybe don't give them a break...just a little respect! Good Luck!

[Ambush]

Everybody wants you to shoot all those invasive, habitat wrecking, ugly rats!!! :twisted:




Just NOT where THEY hunt them. :wink: :mrgreen:

[GoatGuy]

Went out tonight and sat in a couple locales. Saw 9 wt, 3 mulw deer, a couple little bucks, stroked a solo wt doe at 20 yards. All deer were within range and all deer fed by and could have been harvested............. sitting works.

Tenderloins are in the fridge, dinner tomorrow night.

[B-rad]

Ya I was out huntin chickens this morning,,,got limit of 5 birds and bounced 4 wt does,,,,,wished I was allowed 3 wt lol,,,,closest doe was bout 40 yards,,,,,next year I'm gonna spread my harvesting out longer,,,,never fails,,,,as soon as I tag out,,,,,then I start seeing crap loads lol

[bandit]

as soon as I tag out,,,,,then I start seeing crap loads lol

Perhaps you would be so kind to enlighten us and elaborate more... It seems many on this forum (myself included) are struggling to find the pockets of WTs and simply harvest mules instead... Probably not very sustainable