Need Your Help - Hunting Store in Vernon

[PointMan]

I'm SERIOUSLY looking into the idea of opening my own hunting store in Vernon, it's in the VERY EARLY planning stages, so IF it happens, you won't see the doors open until up to two years, I have a lot of ground to cover first.

What I need from you guys is HONEST input. There was a hunting store in Vernon for years, but it didn't stay, I need your help in figuring out WHY. What did it do wrong, what did it do RIGHT? What did it carry that was useful, that was useless? What didn't it carry? Any ideas, suggestions, input, etc that you guys have would be a HUGE help in making this happen and making it a success. PLEASE, feel free to email me your thoughts and suggestions to bucksandoeshunting@gmail.com (bucksanddoeshunting@gmail.com).

Thanks again everyone.

[Sofa King]

what's that store that's up off the maindrag?
if that's the one you are referring to, it was way too messy and clogged up and small.

[smeegle]

i wis you the best of luck but take into consideration you will be competing with wholesale sports in kamloops and the very much established grouse river store which just re-opened in kelowna. Are you planning to target just the local vernon and residing communities for business?

[PointMan]

Hi Smeegle, I've given a lot of thought to Grouse River and Wholesale Sports, and have no doubt that they will be key competitors. My goal, at least short term, will be to foculs on Vernon and surrounding areas (Coldstream, Lumby, Cherryville, Enderby, Armstrong, Falkland, etc.) and expand from there as the market permits.

[monasheemountainman]

don't compete with can tire and wal mart for the cheap product. get some good quality stuff, and or something different from the other stores. It is a lot easier to compete on the higher end gear than the lower. and the number one thing, is invest in good staff, pay your people well and treat them well and you will do fine. whether you have 1 sales person or 10 invest in some good sales training. you might think people know what they want and that all you need is cashiers, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. good luck it has always been my dream to have an outdoors store!!

[Tytalus]

Make sure you get some good books on how to run a small business as well, and some management material. Lots of small businesses fail because not enough startup funds and don't know to manage their staff.

[300H&H]

The store in Vernon was sold and the new owners did not service the customers.

As a general rule when I walk into a store or restaurant I like to be greeted, if not asked "can I help you" ?
These guys knew SFA about customer service.
The same thing happened here in Kelowna when Bear Creek was sold. The new owners took it in a totally different direction than what the customers wanted.

[GoatGuy]

Very tough industry.

[Fella]

My experience with small mom and pop hunting stores is that you either get a lot of grumpy old timers working there who look down on us up and comers, or you get young guys who think they own the place. Good, friendly helpful service goes a LONG way to making a business successful.

[russm]

I'd say if you're going to be selling guns etc to get several of the most popular models, I've wanted a 10/22 for a while now and everywhere I go its always " we only got 1 or 2 and they were sold" something like that a store should always have a bunch of its not like they'll ever sit on the shelf very long, customer service... Make sure it's good, maybe hire older semi retired types that know what they're doing as far as hunting goes and are just looking for a little extra cash in there pocket.

[ianm]

My experience with small mom and pop hunting stores is that you either get a lot of grumpy old timers working there who look down on us up and comers, or you get young guys who think they own the place. Good, friendly helpful service goes a LONG way to making a business successful.

This! I've only had one trip to Wholesale where I dealt with someone that knew what they were selling and talking about, so experience would be a huge asset to any staffers you put on the payroll. It's also one thing that keeps me going back to Wanstall's even though there's barely shoulder room in there sometimes.

[Lillypuff]

Tough go, would not want to tackle this. To many people do not support the mom and pop store anymore. They order online and go with whoever is cheaper. With that being said if you can create a large customer base and a faithful following anything can happen! Prepare for long hours and very little family time. Wish you luck

[saddlemaker]

If You enjoy hunting and fishing having a hunting store will seriously deplete the time you spend doing what you enjoy. The difference between making it or not is often the payroll so it may means 6/7 days a week for the owners.

The "retail" business is one of the toughest. Been there , done that . have the t shirt. only lost about 100,000. :) The internet allows multiple competitors that can carry more inventory access to y our potential customers.

[PointMan]

Thanks for all the input guys, taking all the opinions seriously. Keep it coming, all suggestions welcome, including product suggestions. Tell me what you want and don't want, I'm keeping a file on this, which is why I am open to receiving email input also.

[Mishka]

I'd say if you're going to be selling guns etc to get several of the most popular models.

I agree with this. I was more than willing to buy from a new shop close by. He did have one rifle I was considering, but didn't carry any Browning or Winchester models that I was after. I also just wanted a basic scope (Leopold VX-2 3-9x40) or equivalent but he didn't have much in that category and bringing something in seemed to be difficult. Without checking, he was telling me the scope would cost a lot more than it should. Unfortunately he lost a good sale there. Otherwise I would surely have supported the local shop.

Retail is a tough game though and I don't envy this owner's battle.

[Marlin375]

Maybe for the generation that does not shop on line you could provide a service/portal for them to do so. Customer walks into the store looking for something they could not find in town. Pour them a coffee and find what they are looking for (used gun on CGN, reloading dies on Ebay ect). Bank roll it and bring it in, call when it arrives. There seems to be a gap today between the online shoppers/web priced items and over the counter shoppers that can never find the same deal at a local store. Fill the Gap.


As others have said customer service in this day and age is the ONLY thing that you can provide that seperates you from your online competition, and if you can't offer profesional service with solid advice don't bother opening your doors.

[ianm]

I like the idea. I don't know much about the area, but what is going to differentiate you from the other big box retailers? If I'm going to be going to a smaller retailer, it'll be because I can wiggle out a slightly better deal (buy a rifle get a call or something), there are special promotions going on, or I want expert advice on something specific.

[Tytalus]

I know this isn't for guns, but in terms of running a small business in a tough industry, here's a blog about a guy who runs an RPG, board & card game shop in California:

http://blackdiamondgames.blogspot.ca/

It's a different industry, different region, but he really goes over the nuts and bolts of how his business works, and there's certainly lots of insight ot be gleaned on how to run a good shop of your own.

[Drillbit]

Tough to compete with Del's for guns&ammo. Tough to compete with online, Kam wholesale and Cantire / Walmart stuff that a lot of guys settle for.

The old "outdoor store" that folded.....the young guy that got the buff at Pink Mtn (native/asian) was awsome, always great to deal with. BUT their inventory sucked. They never had much for used guns (great for curiosity and bringing in customers) and then not much for anything needed. Many stores are like this, and I don't know how they keep going.
Dels...tough to beat CASH prices on guns and ammo. Grouse river has no inventory, all online anyways, why not just order online myself. Good boot stores already in Vernon.....

As much as I'd like to see another spot to stop in a check out for a deal I don't thing Vernon is the place to do it.

The last 2 I've seen open lately that were good are Magnum Guns In Lloyd AB and Valley in Trail. Go with quality items and you might pull it off.

[ufishifish2]

I think it's a great idea and have been kicking the idea around myself for the last couple years. Work has been so good for the past few years that I kind of put the idea on the back burner.
Del Selins absolutely sucks and has terrible service with the additional crappy building. There is no other real competition in Vernon other than the Hardware Store. They have Browning and you will have a tough time getting Browning stuff on your shelves. Who wants to drive all the way to Kamloops or Kelowna??? With the rising costs of fuel more people will shop local when possible.
If Powder Keg can do it in Kamloops with Wholesale Sports to compete, Vernon should be no problem. I doubt Wholesale Sports is going to be expanding to Vernon so it's likely ripe for the picking with minimal competition if you do it right.
IMO you need to put Del out of business. It should be fairly simple because he wants out sooooo bad anyways and as soon as you properly compete with him the value of his business will decrease. He is an Okay gunsmith, but doesn't seem to give a crap anymore.
The Outdoor Store was brutal. They sold all that cheap generic camping crap and didn't have much for gun selection. IIRC they mainly only had Remington and Savage. You've got to model your business after Corlaines, or Grouse River. High end quality stuff and pair up with a Gunsmith if you can. Without a smithy you will have a tough time. There are a tonne of people in Vernon that refuse to hand over their guns at Dels because they will never see them again. Sell reloading stuff and good rifles as well as the level entry stuff for the beginners in the sport.
Just my 2c.

[wsm]

It is possible to thrive as a little store . Don't get discouraged . There was a store in Langley ( Specialty shooting sports) Mike a Rhonda, did well . I always found myself buying from them over the bigger stores. They were friendly , took the time to know everyone's name , always had competitive prices , and were very knowligible about the products they carried and other products ." personable" will almost always the customer

[CBH]

Great customer service with a good selection of gear. the trick is to find staff that are very knowledgeable but are not so conifdent that it is annoying to talk to them as they come off as they know everything and the customer knows nothing!! I also think it is important to have a good range of gear from lower to higher end. That way you can appeal to the entire hunting crowd.

Last week I went to a local store to buy a thermarest for an upcoming alpine muley trip.. I went into the store thinking I knew what I was going to buy. The owner asked me a few questions as to what I was using it for and then showed me and explained the difference between the selection. I was blown away and ended up buying a totally different sleeping mat and extremely glad I did!

I hate to be this guy but hiring a cute girl wont hurt either!

[Wade]

Knowledge knowledge knowledge...... If you have any gun smithing experience, that would be a great start. Places like WSS and other chain stores really lack that knowledge. Good luck.

[6point]

all I can say is gunsmith!! try to find a gunsmith!!

[cassiarkid]

I own a store that sells fishing, camping and hunting supplies. I also sell liquor, I'm a gas station, a post office, and I am a convenience store as well. I can compete with my hunting and fishing stuff, because I generally offer lower prices, because the hunting and fishing stuff is not my only source of income, so my margins can be a little less. Inventory is too expensive and there are too many big stores to compete with. Which is why so many hunting stores have closed. I don't want to scare you, but the chances of failing would be very high in my opinion. If I was just an outdoors store, I would have closed a long time ago. The small independent hunting only stores are becoming a dinosaur. Hope this helps?? By the way, tried to send a private email, but address you supplied didn't work??
Cheers

[Hillbros_96]

I like the idea. I don't know much about the area, but what is going to differentiate you from the other big box retailers? If I'm going to be going to a smaller retailer, it'll be because I can wiggle out a slightly better deal (buy a rifle get a call or something), there are special promotions going on, or I want expert advice on something specific.


Differentiation is going to be the key to success. What is going to make you different that is going to make you want to keep coming in. Ianm has it right there but is IMHO wrong on the cheaper price for the products because you are a mom and pop store. This is why the big box stores are thriving. With their buying power they are buying the same products for less and are able to offer it cheaper with the same or better margins. If you try to cater to the price sensitive shoppers you will be competing against wholesale versus differentiating yourself from them.

Why does the service suck from the big box gun stores? Because service costs money, in better trained paid staff who focus on service and you would need several employees at a time working to reduce customer wait times. You are much better off charging more but suppling the service. I learned this lesson working in a Scuba shop as a young man and from that experienc heave learned to be a service shopper versus a price shopper. I am willing to pay more for a product to get service, knowing I am going to be looked after if something goes wrong is what I am looking for. Having that sales rep spend the time with you getting you what you need versus what you want just like CBH is what you need to do.

I support local stores simply because I want them there when I really need them compared to only using them when I really need them. It is a constant battle in my house as my wife comes from an extreme price sensitive family to the point of using $100 in fuel to save 50 bucks on a product.

Good luck to you.

[nwalter]

I would 32nd the knowledge based staff, and be straight and up front with customers when it comes to back orders. Had the run around on this and I no longer go to that store nor does about 20 people I know
Like others said stay clear of cheap stuff. For one I like most would spend the money the first time instead of buying replacements every year or so and two you will never undersell Walmart on the cheap crap.
Maybe even down the road you can work on a loyalty program

[BCBRAD]

Just a suggestion, cater to people who are willing to pay for quality goods and service. Have an inventory that includes slightly off beat items, salesmanship comes into play here. EG: expound the virtues of a 9.3x62 or 260 Rem. Be willing to take trade in's, big advantage here over the big box stores. Use the internet for sales and advertising. Generate a customer list to offer deals etc. First time buyers could be offered a small discount , also large purchases supplimented by a' through in'. This personnalizes the sale and gets you on the road to befriend the customer......makes it hard to shop elsewhere.

[Fella]

A couple guys suggested an online portal and I 100% agree with them as long as you're prompt with your replies to inquiries. Nothing worse than waiting a week for an answer!

[ufishifish2]

If'n it's a gonna happen in a couple years you had better start reading. Intimately get to know what your target customers (likely us) are thinking. Every single darn post in the "Rifle Range, Reloading, and Gun Talk" section of HBC could be of value in how to set up your business regarding guns. Then you can read all the "Hunting Gear" posts as well! :)
Good thing you've got two or three years because there's a lot of information to read there!

[Drillbit]

Don't ever say "sorry it's not in yet, it's on backorder"

Before you say "yep I'll order that in for you" check into it and see if you can actually get the item.

[Liveforthehunt]

What ever happened to this thread ? And how's the store idea coming along . I think when starting a store you should learn to read the regs first ;) lol sorry had to. But honestly are you still on the debate or have you tossed the idea down the toilet?

[markomoose]

Probably make more money running a " HEAD SHOP". Pipes/bongs/rolling papers.Lotsa stoners out there.

[Ranger95]

I'm SERIOUSLY looking into the idea of opening my own hunting store in Vernon

What I need from you guys is HONEST input.

Thanks again everyone.


I'll give you the same advice I gave somebody else a little while ago... Owning / working in a gun store sure sounds peachy, have you ever tried it?

Before you even start drawing up that business plan - go and get a job (even if it's part-time) in a store - it will dispell any myths you have about the industry!

You see.............

Every potential customer walking up to the counter is an expert - yes, 99% of them haven't really got a clue about rifles, actions, or ballistics - but you had better bellive it - they are going to tell you all about that od'six or that 300 win mag, or maybe once in a while they might even venture to the dark side - and talk about a calibre like the 6mm or 7mm, but that's about as far as the limit of where the expertese is going to stretch too - don't - for heaven sakes - question this knowledge, as it will be seen as an insult to their intelligence!

Every potential customer wants instant gratification - the fact that you do not have this amazing storeroom in back holding every conceivable item ever invented for the hunting industry, is an insult to them - they did , after-all - travel great distances to darken your doorstep with their shiny credit card, so you had better have what they want - or expect a tantrum...

Every potential customer thinks that you are a Magician, you must be able to pull rifles, powder, bullets, cartridges and all those things the Americans have in their internet stores - out of your butt!! -- -- And it had better be at the same price they can buy it at Cabbelas for.

Every potential Customer thinks that your gun store is a place where "the smart ones" can test their superior knowledge against the youngest, most inexperienced kid on your staff - and get answers that only ballisticians or gunsmiths could posibilly give - And when the kid falls short, they are quite contented to cry foul - all over cyberspace!

Yes my friend - this is the gun business - the Customer is king - So go into with your eyes wide open, there are many pitfalls and heartbreak moments ahead of you, and as I said in the beginning - do yourself a favour, go and work in WSS, or Grouse or somewhere - it will give you a great foundation to building your own gun emporium.

[ryanb]

Honest opinion: I don't think a small store in a smallish town is a viable business. It may be for a bit but any proffits will gradually erode as more and more people buy online for cut rate prices.