Elk hunting ethics

[rosscopeeko]

I recently went elk hunting up north in region 7-32 for the first time and experienced the hunt of lifetime for myself, and also some unethical hunter behaviour, at least in my eyes it was. One of our hunting partners from camp called a bull elk from a long ways away, he figures it was a kilometer. He worked the elk for 35 minutes before they got into position for their first visual of the animal. Some other hunters who had driven into the area and had heard the bugling back and forth, snuck ahead of our hunting partner through a cutline and into a slash, and shot his bull. To me and our camp we figured this is just plain wrong. The same thing almost happened on the bull we got on our last day. We were cow calling and had a bull bugling back. He wouldn't move but he would bugle aggressively. A hunter had head the commotion and was working his way to our bull. Luckily we went in the bush and got a shot before the other hunter got there. This hunter came to our camp after we had downed our bull, and asked if we shot that bull. He openly admitted he heard me cow calling and he heard the bull bugling back, and he was trying to get to the bull we had calling. So what's the right ethics of elk hunting when someone is working a bull? I'm new to hunting and specifically elk hunting.

[frenchbar]

buckle up folks:)

[.300WSMImpact!]

this has happened to me, I may not do this but if someone wants to do this so be it, its just what we have to deal with in elk season, lots of hunters, I dont think talking ethics will help

[r106]

If he knew it was another hunter calling then thats a little low. But If he honestly thought it was two elk talking back and fourth then it's just oop's sh*t happens

[rcar]

Not sure about the first hunter if he heard you guys or not or just thought it was 2 elk calling but the second guy in my opinion is a total dickweed.

[Gateholio]

7-32 was a gong show, so many hunters. We had a guy rip up behind us while we were walking into a cutblock, went right past us after we had been bugling at an elk. He shot an elk shortly after that. I wouldn't have minded if he had just joined our group and walked in together, it's not like he could have driven more than another 500 yards or so anyway. I couldn't believe the amount of hunters there, never seen anything like that before. A hunting camp anywhere there was a flat spot and more coming in by the truckload as we pulled out after a week.

It's annoying, but it's not really unexpected when that many hunters are using the same area, and a network of roads criss-crossing most of the MU. We only encountered other hunters in the bush on foot once though. But that was the last straw and it was Friday with more hunters coming so we bailed. :)

Anyway, if someone is obviously working a bull I think the ethical thing to do is back off, and I think many would agree, but probably an even number feel that if they get a shot opportunity they will take it. :)

[gutpile]

Not much you can do !

[Big Lew]

Human nature...sometimes it just sucks! Put the chance of unearned money, or of shooting an animal, and it brings out the worst in many.

[J_T]

Yup, have had it happen a few times. When I expressed distaste on here, I was basically beat up, others saying its a free country. Comes down to respect and most hunters are hungry and greedy for a kill. I've learned to accept it and keep my mouth shut on here. People wonder why guys don't share photos or stories of success.

[deadlyshot19]

Yup, have had it happen a few times. When I expressed distaste on here, I was basically beat up, others saying its a free country. Comes down to respect and most hunters are hungry and greedy for a kill. I've learned to accept it and keep my mouth shut on here. People wonder why guys don't share photos or stories of success.

^^ I agree, there are shooters and hunters. Hunters have respect and see the whole picture and will respect other people in the area. Shooters are tunnel visioned, and as J_T put it "greedy for a kill".. Just my opinion on it.

[proguide66]

7-32 was a gong show, so many hunters. We had a guy rip up behind us while we were walking into a cutblock, went right past us after we had been bugling at an elk. He shot an elk shortly after that. I wouldn't have minded if he had just joined our group and walked in together, it's not like he could have driven more than another 500 yards or so anyway. I couldn't believe the amount of hunters there, never seen anything like that before. A hunting camp anywhere there was a flat spot and more coming in by the truckload as we pulled out after a week.

It's annoying, but it's not really unexpected when that many hunters are using the same area, and a network of roads criss-crossing most of the MU. We only encountered other hunters in the bush on foot once though. But that was the last straw and it was Friday with more hunters coming so we bailed. :)

Anyway, if someone is obviously working a bull I think the ethical thing to do is back off, and I think many would agree, but probably an even number feel that if they get a shot opportunity they will take it. :)
And then I bugled in the same ****tard the next am , guess he had two elk tags ???? Idiot ! And he says " oh , I wouldn't have came in here if I saw boot prints ". Oh really moron ??? But you drove your quad past our parked vehicle and quaded past us as we were very 'obviously' walking in to be silent - IDIOT !!! Winder how many elk tags he had ??? He musta wanted to shoot one daily ??? Bit of a rant but my first experience hunting near people in many years - I'm sticking to my 'sweaty remote' hunting !

[rosscopeeko]

Thanks for the input guys. I also had the same experience where I was walking into an area to call, and 2 meat heads on quads ride up behind me and i'm thinking they will see this area is going to be hunted and turn around, but they rode right passed me and waved. I was so pissed. I kept my cool and just turned around and walked back to my quad and chose another area.

[325]

Yeah, lots of assholes out there. I try to hunt more remote areas or areas with less game, just to avoid people. I've learned and accepted that the courtesy I display to others while hunting will likely not be returned, however, I've also met really great guys hunting who were not only courteous, but willing to lend a hand when needed.

As for elk hunting ethics, I think if someone is working a bull, then **** off and find your own. If you don't I think it would qualify you as a big time jerk

[ravensfoot]

Rosco, I hear ya man.

I had a similar rant that I posted here (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?42329-What-chaps-your-ass-when-your-hunting&p=567275#post567275) that was also met with a number of comments telling me that I don't own the forest. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths some people will go while out hunting. I doubt that will ever change so, I go deeper in the bush now.

[Glenny]

If I new it was hunters calling the game I would not interfere. It would be unethical in my eyes. It's not like your dancing with some hottie and someone wants to cut in.

[two-feet]

I am 100% of the opinion that if you know another person or group is working an area then you should back out, just the way I was raised to hunt. Not just the moral thing to do, but courteous and safer as well. Last year I went moose hunting with my dad and his friend, they were packing bows and I was the caller. We parked our truck at the head of a old cut block and started sneaking in and 2 quads go flying past without a wave or acknowledgement of any sort. I was pissed! I am quite surprised at how many people on this forum feel this is acceptable. Like the others are saying, I am just heading deeper into the bush where the quads cant find me to hunt these days

[ianwuzhere]

How about hunter walks by your machine to a dead end- and walks by you with the bull your working and shoots the bull less than 80 yards towards the bull from you..
Lets just say we didnt help packing it out!!
I have a feeling this wont be the last time this sort of stuff happends..
We were glad to see they left back to the LOWER MAINLAND a few days later, and they didnt think it was unethical at all??

[proguide66]

How about hunter walks by your machine to a dead end- and walks by you with the bull your working and shoots the bull less than 80 yards towards the bull from you..
Lets just say we didnt help packing it out!!
I have a feeling this wont be the last time this sort of stuff happends..
We were glad to see they left back to the LOWER MAINLAND a few days later, and they didnt think it was unethical at all??
THAT IS SOO FACKED ! damn that pisses me off...I wish it didn't , but I'll admit it - makes me want to throw down big time. Two years ago 'Comin out Heavy' and I are sitting on a 40" ram with 6 friends , 3 legal. Two young guys come hiking up , we 'BS' with em , I tell em what were doin and send them up to where I know rams are. Couple hrs later two guys come 'down stream' to us lookin not soo happy as they spoke with the two guys heading up and came down to see us. They were obviously there before us , I had ZERO problem wishing them luck and leaving. ( now this is after 22 hr drive and a 7 hr hike to get there)...NO BIGGY , I'd rather be a good guy than a DOUCH any day , anywhere...... :smile:

[dana]

So if you were in an area and you heard two bulls calling back and forth to each other, with the bugles and trashing moving closer to each other, what would you do? Sit back and do nothing because on of the bugles sounds a little squeaky and may perhaps be another hunter? Years ago when calls didn't sound nearly as realistic as the calls made today, I called in hunters when I was bugling. How is another hunter really to know one of the bugles is a hunter not another bull? I've heard many a real bull that was smaller and squeaky that has worked up a much bigger bull. So, ethically what would you do. Sit on your hands or try to cut one of the bugling bulls off and make a silent play on him?

[Gateholio]

Novice elk hunter here but I was able to identify hunters pretty quick. Most hunter bugles have a flute sound to them.

[proguide66]

So if you were in an area and you heard two bulls calling back and forth to each other, with the bugles and trashing moving closer to each other, what would you do? Sit back and do nothing because on of the bugles sounds a little squeaky and may perhaps be another hunter? Years ago when calls didn't sound nearly as realistic as the calls made today, I called in hunters when I was bugling. How is another hunter really to know one of the bugles is a hunter not another bull? I've heard many a real bull that was smaller and squeaky that has worked up a much bigger bull. So, ethically what would you do. Sit on your hands or try to cut one of the bugling bulls off and make a silent play on him?
I'm still on my 'hangover' from the moron last week quadding by our 4X , then driving by us on the same 'straight road' and parking 200 ahead of us...then he shoots a bull 150 to the left , then I call the SAME dude in the very next am...grr... I have gone to some serious efforts for years to hunt where no one goes for many years. Last week was a 'first' for me in a few ways. Being 'suckered' by a good caller would be one thing , blatantly sleezing a dude would be another.

[Gateholio]

THAT IS SOO FACKED ! damn that pisses me off...I wish it didn't , but I'll admit it - makes me want to throw down big time. Two years ago 'Comin out Heavy' and I are sitting on a 40" ram with 6 friends , 3 legal. Two young guys come hiking up , we 'BS' with em , I tell em what were doin and send them up to where I know rams are. Couple hrs later two guys come 'down stream' to us lookin not soo happy as they spoke with the two guys heading up and came down to see us. They were obviously there before us , I had ZERO problem wishing them luck and leaving. ( now this is after 22 hr drive and a 7 hr hike to get there)...NO BIGGY , I'd rather be a good guy than a DOUCH any day , anywhere...... :smile:

Not the first time, if you recall! :)

long drive, plane ride, long hike up a steep mountain, rams in view then we noticed the guide and his hunter had beat us there from the other side of the mountain! :(

So we pulled out quietly and left :)

[Darksith]

its frustrating for sure, but it all depends on if you knew it was other hunters. You would have to know they were there, and where they were...which would basically mean you would need to speak to them. Hard to say what was going through there mind, if they knew there were hunters in the equation. Ive called in a couple people moose hunting before. That sucked, but it wasn't their fault. Blowing by someone on a quad is a bit different. Anytime I pass someone when in the area and not on the main road, I generally try to chat with them just to make sure I know what they are doing so I can go a different way.

[proguide66]

Not the first time, if you recall! :)

long drive, plane ride, long hike up a steep mountain, rams in view then we noticed the guide and his hunter had beat us there from the other side of the mountain! :(

So we pulled out quietly and left :) , No , not first time being beat to a spot , but a first for me of being blatantly pissed on. And then he's out POACHING the very next day???? ..... shoulda clothlined the puke off his ride! , ok , need coffee#2 and get my ass in woods this am , lol...

[dana]

I've hunted crowded areas numerous times in the past. Areas like the Christian Valley and the East Koots in the 80's or the Gang/Churn in the 90s and 2000s. I certainly avoid these areas nowadays. I would much rather see little to no game than see a bunch of game and a bunch of hunters. When you hunt crowded areas, you need to be in a much different mind frame than you are when there is a vast area with little to no other hunters but yourself. Why are you hunting it? Probably because you want to kill something right? How are you going to do this when there is a ton of hunters in trucks on quads and on foot? You need to work the hunters to your advantage. If this is an ethical issue for you, we'll you pretty much screwed yourself by choosing to hunt where a ton of hunters are jam packed in a tight area like sardines in a can. Doesn't matter, someone in these areas is going to get their feelings hurt and rant how someone screwed them out of 'their' animal. Choose your poison!

[dana]

Proguide,
i must ask, if you had a client with you and you were onto a big legal ram in a group of other legal rams and you looked over and saw a couple resident hunters making a play on the same rams, would you pull out and tell your client, too bad so sad or would you carry on with you original plan of attack and hope you and you client won the foot race?

[rocksteady]

Novice elk hunter here but I was able to identify hunters pretty quick. Most hunter bugles have a flute sound to them.

I have been fooled several times over the years, by trying to figure out if its a bull or a hunter...

One time I heard bugles that sounded like someone was blowing a bugle like a duck call.... Thought I would sit and watch this fool, to see who he was when he came out of the timber. I was shocked when a 5 point bull stepped out...

[proguide66]

Proguide,
i must ask, if you had a client with you and you were onto a big legal ram in a group of other legal rams and you looked over and saw a couple resident hunters making a play on the same rams, would you pull out and tell your client, too bad so sad or would you carry on with you original plan of attack and hope you and you client won the foot race?
Who ever was there first would have my respect. I have never done a 'foot race' , couldn't let myself do it. As well , I have been very fortunate and ran %100 success over my career with finding what they wanted ( now whether they hit it or not is another story). I have always preached " there is more than enough to go around up here" and never had a problem. 'Desperate' hunters with low self confidence 'foot race' ( and no respect) . Guiding has its advantages as the guide 'should' know where there's a TONNE of good spots and where the game is, which makes it easier to walk away from competition 'grief'. BUT..... 'if' I were on a big ram , well into my stalk and some moron showed up and blatantly tried to screw me out of it after it was ' quite obvious' I was first , I'd most definitely screw him outta it !!! (its never happened , just trying to picture it) , lol

[325]

Speaking of elk hunting ethics...one of my employees was woken up last week by some idiot bugling in her yard- AT 3:30 AM IN THE MORNING! I asked what she did, and she smiled and said "I let my dogs out"...

Also, last year one of my patients was complaining that his neigbour had a group pull their trailer onto his land and set up camp. The hunters were unwilling to move until the RCMP got involved. hard to believe, but true.

[dana]

Pro guide,
Good response and pretty much the response that most hunters should have regardless if they are guides or residents but....we all have heard horror stories about both groups haven't we? For many of these horror stories, one must take them with a grain of salt, as you never know for sure if there was 'intent' or just plain 'ignorance'. By ignorance I mean someone who just hasn't paid full attention and wasn't full aware of their surroundings to know they were indeed messing up another hunter. Here is an example, I once horse packed into the high country 2 days before the season opener. I camped in a timbered basin and hiked the mountain tops grassing for trophy Muleys. Opening morning found me watching a batchleor group of 12 bucks with one definite shooter in the bunch. I watched them from the safety of a high perch waiting as one by one they bedded. My plan was formulated for the stalk and I was waiting for the last buck to bed before I made my move. Suddenly they all bolted up and ran. They jumped straight down into the thickest gawk awful tangled of an old burn. One little buck stayed on top and was looking over his shoulder to what spooked them. I spun the spotter and saw a guide and his hunter get off their horses and stalk the little buck. It had them made and bailed into the same thick stuff as his buddies. The guide and hunter got back on their horses and rode out of sight. While I may have swore at the disappointment of my plan being foiled, I stayed put and continued to glass the other basins I could see. I was sitting within a hundred metres of a herd of goats but I was hunting deer not goats. About an hour goes by and I hear a rock roll beside me and suddenly there was the guide and hunter right beside me. They were shocked I was there. They were stalking the goats right beside me. The guide said he saw my camp and assumed I was somewhere else and didn't mean to mess up my goat hunt. I said I was not hunting goats I was hunting deer and he spooked the dozen bucks I was watching. He was shocked, he had only seen the 1 buck. He said sorry and asked if I had a problem with them hunting the goats right beside me. I told them fly at it and wished them good luck. I slowly eased myself out of there and hiked over to a different mountain to glass. The point of the story is I could have been pissed that they messed up my hunt as they saw my camp. It was ignorance on the guides part and had I had not talked to him, I could have had a story how the guide screwed my hunt on purpose, which in reality, wouldn't be true.

[GoatGuy]

Stay away from the roads...........:mrgreen:

[Gateholio]

I have been fooled several times over the years, by trying to figure out if its a bull or a hunter...

One time I heard bugles that sounded like someone was blowing a bugle like a duck call.... Thought I would sit and watch this fool, to see who he was when he came out of the timber. I was shocked when a 5 point bull stepped out...

I know we can easily get fooled too. :)

[Sofa King]

we all know what's ethical and what's not.
but, most of these descriptions shouldn't be all that surprising.
there's all types of hunters out there, just like drivers on the roads.
it would be awesome if everyone did the ethical thing, but they aren't breaking any rules, they're just being assholes is all.
and some are too stupid to even know what they are doing is wrong.

it's like camping.
i'll never go to a campground.
there's always those groups that are there to party it up and make as much noise as possible.
I go to the bush to get away from others, not join as many others as possible.

[Darksith]

Dana has some great words, so does proguide. Remember its important to talk to fellow hunters when you bump into them. I would have no problem walking a couple hundred yards to go talk to a guy that just shot something. First I would want to observe what he got, second its just neighborly to do so. Keeps things in order, heads cool and people safe. We shouldn't assume, but when guys blow by someone walking on an atv without even a quick stop, that is ignorant, and should be frowned upon. Like proguide said, lots of ground out there, I would rather know where someone who is gonna get there quicker than me is going so I can avoid that area.

[Big Lew]

What would really 'take the cake' would be having someone on a atv blow past you as you're walking into a small slash, obviously intent on beating you there, and then mouth off if you continued into the slash to hunt.

[kgs]

When I shot my first moose I had two hunters come out of the bush and tell me I shot their moose the one they were tracking. This was an hour after I shot it and I had been walking down a path when I saw it on a sandbar. They wanted me to give them half of my moose and for a minute I thought we were going to have a shoot out. My buddy appeared shortly as he had heard the yelling and they backed down and left thank god it was so bizarre.

That's the problem with hunting in this day and age there are to many hunters and not enough game. We now have a generation of hunters who have no ethics and think only of them selfs and will do any thing to get what they want. This mean s literately stealing your game even before you get it. I could go on and on but we have heard all the stories before on this forum. Leaving garbage behind, poaching, shooting other hunters leh's, wandering in to your hunting area while you are hunting knowing you are there, shooting shot guns while in a boat for fun or from the shore even if they see you in a boat they continue shoot and laughing , drukin idots.. Hunters who live in rural areas are known to kill a few moose more than they need who's going to know right.. We all know there are a limited number of CO's to police hunting, and not to mention the number of hunters who drink and or do drugs while they hunt, and the hunters who break rules like riding there quad before the designated time time frames and then play dumb like they never even heard of such a rule. The one that gets me the most is the co worker who brags about a native friend who took him out and got him a moose. It all makes me sick to think about what goes on ever hunting season. I get there is a certain amount of pride when you get the game you are hunting for and lets face it we all like to brag about the hunt but at what cost!!!!

[GoatGuy]

When I shot my first moose I had two hunters come out of the bush and tell me I shot their moose the one they were tracking. This was an hour after I shot it and I had been walking down a path when I saw it on a sandbar. They wanted me to give them half of my moose and for a minute I thought we were going to have a shoot out. My buddy appeared shortly as he had heard the yelling and they backed down and left thank god it was so bizarre.

That's the problem with hunting in this day and age there are to many hunters and not enough game. We now have a generation of hunters who have no ethics and think only of them selfs and will do any thing to get what they want. This mean s literately stealing your game even before you get it. I could go on and on but we have heard all the stories before on this forum. Leaving garbage behind, poaching, shooting other hunters leh's, wandering in to your hunting area while you are hunting knowing you are there, shooting shot guns while in a boat for fun or from the shore even if they see you in a boat they continue shoot and laughing , drukin idots.. Hunters who live in rural areas are known to kill a few moose more than they need who's going to know right.. We all know there are a limited number of CO's to police hunting, and not to mention the number of hunters who drink and or do drugs while they hunt, and the hunters who break rules like riding there quad before the designated time time frames and then play dumb like they never even heard of such a rule. It all makes me sick to think about what goes on ever hunting season.

30 years ago there were twice as many hunters as there are today.

I guess the challenge for the hunting community is to stop talking about all the people that break the law and start reporting them. Maybe the problem is that people want to complain instead of doing something positive?

[325]

30 years ago there were twice as many hunters as there are today.

I guess the challenge for the hunting community is to stop talking about all the people that break the law and start reporting them. Maybe the problem is that people want to complain instead of doing something positive?

X2. There are lots of road hunters, but get off the road and you should be fine. The COs rely on us to report poaching and illegal activity, but we rarely do?

[GoatGuy]

X2. There are lots of road hunters, but get off the road and you should be fine. The COs rely on us to report poaching and illegal activity, but we rarely do?

Bizarre isn't it. Seems everyone knows someone who breaks the law, but none of this ever gets reported to COs.

The days of hanging around people who intentionally poach, shoot short sheep and take the government to court, drive up road closures etc, need to stop.

[Wrayzer]

the hunters who break rules like riding there quad before the designated time time frames and then play dumb like they never even heard of such a rule.

Wait, what?

[aggiehunter]

quite often it's damn impossible to tell what is a real Elk and a hunter..bugles are pretty good now...JT...exactly why I get out of the EK on Sept. 9th....

[jtred]

It's been mentioned already, but how exactly would I be able to tell if it was a hunter bugling to an elk, two elk bugling or for that matter two hunters bugling back and forth at each other? Unless I see another hunter I always assume that what I'm hearing are elk(but always keeping in mind that it may be other hunters). If either hunter knew for sure that they were butting in on someone else's hunt then yes I agree it was very unethical but if they were not aware then I'd have to say it wasn't. As for the guys that drive right by when I'm walking into an area on a dead end road and have obviously seen my truck that is about as ignorant as it gets.

[123.brewski]

It's Very poor ethics to scoop an elk. I've had it happen. Also had guys drive in between us and the elk and lay on their horn, and spook the bull. WTF! There used to be respect for one another out there. Time to go further into the wild to get a quality, enjoyable hunt. Its Unfortunately not an option for some folk.

[J_T]

Bizarre isn't it. Seems everyone knows someone who breaks the law, but none of this ever gets reported to COs.

The days of hanging around people who intentionally poach, shoot short sheep and take the government to court, drive up road closures etc, need to stop.
I thought the thread was about ethics. One step down (hmm not always) from law. I don't think we report breaches of an ethic. Usually a breach of ethic is a judgement based on personal experience. Really not worth calling a cop.

[J_T]

What would really 'take the cake' would be having someone on a atv blow past you as you're walking into a small slash, obviously intent on beating you there, and then mouth off if you continued into the slash to hunt.
Exactly. Not to mention doing it with an 84 yr old who worked for every inch of that 1.3 km. and even after giving the ATV rider an opportunity - through discussion on the trail - to do the right thing and turn around, or park. Nope they just must carry on.

["No Choke"Lord Walsingham]

If he knew it was another hunter calling then thats a little low. But If he honestly thought it was two elk talking back and fourth then it's just oop's sh*t happens

Yes Sir, this is pretty much how I view the subject matter of the original post myself. With the exception of thinking it is down right dastardly, not just a little low. Such behaviour borders right on theft if done intentionally. As for the people using vehicles to go ahead of others and/or scare game? These actions are highly unethical.

[Ltbullken]

Tell him what a low life tw*tnozzle sh*tmint he is but admire his guts to come into YOUR camp to tell you his worth. I also don't think that coming in between a hunter and his intended prey is particularly smart when the hunter is looking for the animal in front of him. Mistakes can happen. Knowing this sort of behaviour is out there makes 'closing the distance' tactic a highly recommended approach.

That other guy needs to be told that going after another hunter's work makes him a waste of air and deserving of the title of sh*tpump. Guys like that wouldn't last 24 hours in a rifle section cuz 'blades' get sorted out pretty quick. Educate him, offer him a warm beer and ask him to tell you about other times he taken game that other hunters did the work for. If guys know they are doing this and are aware, this is totally reprehensible. I do understand that someone could push an animal into another hunter who is not the wiser about what's going on but to deliberately insert yourself into another hunter's hunt is totally worthy of derision. IMHO....

[Deeboe]

Not sure about the first hunter if he heard you guys or not or just thought it was 2 elk calling but the second guy in my opinion is a total dickweed.

lol.......

[Deeboe]

Dude, this has happened to me on more occasions than I can remember. Im in the bush, bugling back and forth with a bull, someone else hears the commotion, hikes on up without knowing I am a hunter and spooks the bull. Many times this has happened. Its elk hunting when you are in a busy area... however if they know you are there, then that stinks and Karma can be a bitch.