45-70 hunters

[JoshLedoux]

Interesting concept I've been pondering for a while here. I love to hunt with my Marlin 45-70 but I love to shoot grouse as well, although Im a big shotgun fan as far as they go. Speer makes a .451 cal shot cup for colt .45 revolvers so you can handload snake popper rounds, (more intended for the states where mounted riders carry sidearms for just such situations). I've found each cup will hold 167 grains of number 7.5 shot. I came up with a charge and primer to go with it and loaded a bunch up. The diameter was a little tricky to crimp due to the .007 thou size difference between colt .45 and 45-70 but I got round that. I intend to pattern sometime soon and will let you know how it turned out. If this works the shells should be a great grouse popper load.

[Mr. Dean]

Interesting...

I have in the past used the 44 Rem mag case loaded w/ # 7 shot, via Speers shot shell cups.

Scattered rats REAL good. Had to be loaded one by one though in my Ruger 96-44. The plastic cups wouldn't hold up being cycled through the action.

I'm sure that round and rifle, would've worked well on Grouse.


PLEASE let me know how it all comes together - Dean. :smile:

[bochunk2000]

Sounds fun...Be careful. Let us know how it works out, I know a few guys that would be interested in your results.
Steve.

[BCLongshot]

I know this is a little weird but I shot a Grouse with my Goverment last Fall ask J300 & KORideout. Pretty expensive though and loud. The breast was in perfect condition. Then I forgot the bloody thing in the fridge. Before you string me up like William Wallace someone did eat it.

[BCLongshot]

Seriously though some good ideas.

This year we're going to pack a slingshot and use some BB's in the magnetic puch. Those bloody birds are so close usually you could reach for it in the pack and wack.

[JoshLedoux]

yeah theyre beauties, I'll see if I can take some pics and post em if I can figger out how. I doubt how well they'll cycle in the lever gun, but with the addition of some sort of nose cone they may even do that.

[gitnadoix]

My guess is your gonna find the effective range about 10 feet, most people just load up some casts at around 600 ft/sec. Not to load and just take off the heads o 25 yards.

Once I have a load tested I let ya know.....

[troutseeker]

I just bought 45-70 and am intereted in this idea. I already do this in my .44mag revolver, this should work the same if not better.

Troutseeker

[Mr. Dean]

When shhoting my shot loads from a revolver, it is good for about 20 feet. a longer barrel should improve things.

I never pattern tested the ol'e 96-44 but the rats that it went to town on where all around 12 - 25 feet.

[JoshLedoux]

I can't imagine them havin great range with a rifled barrel and no choke, but it's worth a try and they sure look purty

[Mr. Dean]

I can't imagine them havin great range with a rifled barrel and no choke, but it's worth a try and they sure look purty


Its hard to believe but, the shot is contained within that little plastic vial untill it emerges from the end of the barrel - Were it then shatters and sets the shot free.

They are real cool little trinkets to play around with.

TIP: Going with an 'overcharge' of powder, trying to get more velosity, will yield poor paterns (my findings as well as Speer).

Again, please fill me in once the lead is flying.

[troutseeker]

I imagine you could actually load a case using a correct diameter caedboard "wad", then the shot and seal the top with cardbord wad and a sealand/crimp. Linda like making a .410 shotshell in a brass case. Then you can use whatever size shot too.

Trouteseeker

[Mattimoose]

You can use .45 gas checks over the powder with a couple of card wads after so you don't cock a wad cover with a card wad and enjoy! The Lee .451 flat-point hollow-base minnie in pure lead works like a big pellet-gun pellet too, and the base will expand readily with a light smokeless charge to fill the rifling. When shooting shot loads of any kind out of this rifle, be sure no wads or any part thereof stay in the barrel as this may have catastrophic results.

[Mattimoose]

An auxillary cartridge can be made for the .45-70 to shoot .45 ACP also, but it ends-up being a little delicate. I have made them. This is a little more practical for people with the .43 mauser or .45-75 they wanna shoot and is strictly a custom outfit.

[Mr. Dean]

Just so some of the fans know what we're talking about;

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/DSC_0098_edited-1.JPG




I keep mine stored in this configuration. :rolleyes:

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/DSC_0095_edited-1.JPG

[Mattimoose]

I loaded some for .38 S&W but I think they'd only be good to shoot a snake if he ws actually in your boot!LOL
>44-40 was supposed to be better than .410 but I have yet to try-it in mine.

[johnes50]

I don't know anything about this subject, but is there an adapter to shoot .410 shotshells from a 45/70? Would it be possible? That would make the 45/70 that much more versatile. John

[JoshLedoux]

I worry that a plastic shotshell wad would be dangerous in a rifled barrel

[Mr. Dean]

I worry that a plastic shotshell wad would be dangerous in a rifled barrel
Why?

This is their intended use and I have fired MANY of these rounds in my guns. No ill effects, what-so-ever.
Speer lists the load data in their books.

Enlighten us to your thoughts...What are the components made up with/out of, in the rounds you're building.
I assumed that they were the same as mine. Just a different calibre.

:?: :?: :?:

If you could e-mail me a pic, I could get it up on the forum for ya.
PM me if interested.

[Mr. Dean]

I found this on the Marlinowners site;
http://marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=17426

It tells you how to do it for the 45-70.

[Mattimoose]

I don't know anything about this subject, but is there an adapter to shoot .410 shotshells from a 45/70? Would it be possible? That would make the 45/70 that much more versatile. John

Well, the actual case would hold more than a 2.5" shotshell in most cases. The two cases are too close in diameter to work as an adapter, mostly at the rim thickness. the amount sticking-out af the case too, may be too large. I'm at work right now, I'll have to go home and check-it out. The 2.5" .410 is useless enough in a .410 bore, I shudder to think that it could be even more useless from a .45 bore.

you'd have better luck with a single projectile like a ball or miniball. Anything is possible in a pinch though too and I've seen some pretty sloppy zipguns that proved to be very effective if not too selective.

[Mattimoose]

I worry that a plastic shotshell wad would be dangerous in a rifled barrel

Not at all mon chum, plastic bullets are in use in rifled barrels in different applications all over the world and no harm comes from them. Never, under any circumstances though, substitute Ball bearings for steel shot or round ball in a gun.
My grandfather loaded hard, whole peppercorns as shot in his old double barrel and decapitated a lot of partridge that way; when lead was scarce during the first world war.
He also used Amex from the talc mine down the road and would flatten the dents outta the primers in his paper shotshells and would use mercury-fulminate match heads to prime them with. For ducks, he used to cut-up bailing wire by lamplight and stack the bits carefully into the shell. The pieces were surrounded by a piece of catalogue cover to protect the barrel. He was effectively using steel shot in a Damascus-Barrelled WW Greener Trap Gun with Full chokes and 32" tubes in 1917 and he said it killed the hell outta them! The wire was sharp and would tumble and cause heinous injury. Of course grampa shot them-up close, and waited till all their heads lined-up as this was supper and it had taken all- evening to load 3 or 4 shells in this manner, but he was happy with the results.

[Wildman]

Wouldnt they eventually wreck a rifled barrel?

[Gateholio]

Plastic and lead are softer than steel, but what might wreck a abarrel is if a piece of wadding got stuck int he barrel and a shot was fired behind it...:twisted:

[hs4570]

Have been loading shotshell rounds for 45/70..444 marlin and other straight wall type cartridges in RIFLES for over a decade..I shoot cast bullets with gas checks so I use the gas check method.

I use UNIQUE powder..normal gas check on top of powder..fill with shot of choice..reversed gas check (cup down) on top, crimp to hold shot under tension and keeps it weather proof... .... I single load them right into the chamber and have not tried to cycle them through the mag of a lever gun.

Have tried useing "cardboard cookies cut" and then placed on top of powder..fill with shot and cardboard on top..crimp etc. This worked but was much slower to assemble and not as durable as the gas check method for me.

As previously stated, you get a donut pattern so its advisable to test your loads at various ranges on paper/cardboard so you see at what distances it is useable...also because of the donut pattern you can hold a bit high or low or slightly left or right to have a higher percentage of the "circle" of shot hit your grouse.

Have only shot grouse to 15 yards with these shot loads.

For small game or varmints a 150 grain round ball at 800 feet per second at 50 yds and to 100 yards at 1500 fps works very well in the 45/70 too.

Regards shooting plastic in rifled barels...Have shot several hundred plastic sabots out of my 45/70 with no harm done..muzzleloaders have been useing them for many years with no ill effects.....my range recovered sabots with "petals" trimed off make good over powder wads/shot bases for 45/70 shot loads too but still prefer gas checks.....

If any of this sounds unsafe to you... please disregard !



hs45/70.........your mileage may vary

[Pete]

You have to remember that the 45.70 has a rifled barrel and as such will spin the shot coming out. I had this happen to a shotgun that had a rifled barrel. When you fired SSG out of it you would be lucky to get a single round in a 4x8 sheet of plywood at 30m. Very quickly went back to a smooth bore.
Pete