Reg 3 reg change proposals

[Kirby]

Hunting & Trapping Season Changes being considered for Region 3 for 2014

Species

Proposed Regulation Change

Rationale



Bighorn Sheep-LEH

New any ram LEH sheep zone (MU 3-29B) east of Rosseau Creek. Split season dates: Sep15-30th & Nov1-20th. Range of Authorizations for each season 1-5. See attached map.

Primary rationale is to increase hunting opportunity for bighorn rams given the extremely high demand for sheep hunting opportunities in the region. Sheep populations in this area have been trending upward in recent years. Ram/ewe ratios are high, with significant numbers of mature rams.



Bighorn Sheep-LEH

Two new ewe LEH sheep zones (MU 3-29C & 3-29D) east of Rosseau Creek. Season dates: Nov1-15th . Range of Authorizations 1-50 in each. See attached map.

Rationale is to increase hunting opportunity and manage sheep density. Sheep populations in this area have been trending upward in recent years. We expend a fair bit of effort trapping and translocating sheep and we’re running out of socially and biologically acceptable release locations. Appears to be demand for hunting opportunities for bighorn ewes.



Bighorn Sheep - LEH

New any ram LEH sheep zone (MU 3-30B) west of Deadman River and east of Cache Creek. Proposed season dates: Sep15-30th. Range of Authorizations 1-10. See attached map.

Implementation proposed pending results of fall 2013 inventory. Recent surveys & observations indicate there are up to 150 sheep in this area and the population is trending upward. The primary rationale is to provide additional hunting opportunity for bighorn rams given the extreme demand in the Thompson Region.



Bighorn Sheep - LEH

New any ram LEH sheep zone (MU 3-17C – LEH zone area is equivalent to current Mature bighorn sheep hunting area). Proposed season dates: Nov1-20. Range of Authorizations 1-10. See attached map.

Harvest opportunities, particularly on older rams, were restricted in 2012 in this area by eliminating the age criteria portion of the previous regulation. Challenges in estimating the age of rams in the field has resulted in significant illegal kills by resident hunters in some years. We estimate that up to 20% of the harvest in some years was focused on older rams. This LEH hunt is proposed to increase sheep hunting opportunity in the area, especially for older rams, to restore opportunity to previous levels without the challenges associated with horn curl and age restrictions.



Bighorn Sheep – LEH ROA

Increase Range of Authorizations (ROA) from 1-10 to 1-20 in MUs 3-32E & D

Allow regional biologists to increase hunting opportunity for resident hunters in an effort to increase resident hunter utilization of sheep available for harvest.



Moose-Hunting

Shorten GOS for spike/fork bulls to Nov.1-15 in the following MUs – 3-12 to 14, 18 to 20, 26, 28 to 30

Recent surveys suggest we are very near or below bull ratio targets in these MUs. As such, these populations can not support additional hunting pressure which will occur given this season change is being implemented across the Okanagan Region for 2014. This proposal seeks to harmonize seasons with Region 8 to prevent transfer of hunting pressure and concentrating hunters.





Deer-Hunting

Increase antlered & antlerless white-tailed deer bag limit.

Change regional deer bag limit to read: “the aggregate bag limit for deer is 3. The bag limit for mule deer is 2 but only one may be a buck. The bag limit for white-tailed deer is 2, either sex.

Rationale is to increase hunting opportunity for white-tailed deer, particularly antlerless deer, and attempt to transfer hunting pressure from mule deer (opportunity currently maximized) to white-tailed deer (underutilized).



Goat - LEH

Close LEH zones 3-44A & B

Aerial surveys conducted in 2013 by regional wildlife staff suggests goat numbers have significantly declined in this area over the last 10-20 years. Currently, we estimate approximately 30 goats, including kids, in this area, well below the recommended minimum required to support a recreational harvests in accordance with the provincial mountain goat management plan (50 adults). Recent surveys in adjacent zones suggest populations have declined by 50-80%.



Sharp-tailed grouse-Hunting

Open new season Sept 10 – Nov 30 in MU 3-30

Anecdotal reports and observations by regional biologists suggest numbers are trending upward in this area. Ecological similarities between the adjacent open MU 3-31 and MU 3-30 exists as the Cariboo basin ecosection overlaps both MUs. MU 3-30 features open cutblocks, Aspen stands and riparian meadows that are important living requirements for sharptail grouse.
Primary rationale is to provide hunting opportunity for grouse in this area.





Wolf-Hunting

Lengthen season & bag limit modification – no closed season, no bag limit

MUs – 3-17, 26 to 44

Rationale:
1. Anecdotal evidence from hunters, trappers, guides and incidental observations of wolves by regional biologists during ungulate aerial surveys suggest that wolf populations continue to increase in size and distribution in most areas of the region and can sustain a higher harvest;
2.There are significant wolf/livestock issues in many areas of the region;
3.COS currently invests significant resources (at times, all CO’s in the region) in addressing wolf/livestock issues;
4. Wolf predation is identified as a significant mortality factor for mountain caribou in the region.

This proposal intends to provide more hunting opportunity for wolves in the Thompson Region, while assisting the COS and landowners in addressing wolf conflicts on private property. As wolves are opportunistically harvested this regulation change is not expected to significantly increase harvests.

[Kirby]

Wolf-Trapping

Lengthen season on private land with leg hold only (April 1st- Oct 14th)
MUs – 3-12 to 13, 17 to 20, 26 to 33, 35 to 42

Rationale:
1. Anecdotal evidence from hunters, trappers, guides and incidental observations of wolves by regional biologists during ungulate aerial surveys suggest wolf populations continue to increase in size and distribution in most areas of the region;
2.There are significant wolf/livestock issues in many areas of the region;
3.COS currently invests significant resources (at times, all CO’s in the region) in addressing wolf/livestock issues.

This proposal will assist COS and landowners in addressing wolf conflicts on private property. Harmonize with Region 5. Wolves are classified as Class 3 furbearers, which are not considered sensitive to harvest.



Fisher - Trapping

Open new season Nov 1- Feb 15th

No formal inventory is complete (pending). Anecdotal evidence provided by local trappers through incidental catch and direct observations suggest an increasing population of fishers. We suspect immigration into MU 3-17 from the northern MU of 3-31, which currently supports a trapping season for fisher.
Primary rationale is to provide trapping opportunity for fisher in MU 3-17.



Access – Motor Vehicle Prohibition

Region-wide alpine motor vehicle restriction (snowmobile exempt). Limit motorized traffic to existing roads and trails above 1,700 m. See attached map.


All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) use is growing rapidly throughout the province. Approximately 90,000 personal ATVs currently put demands on the land base and the environment in British Columbia (B.C.). Rationale is to regulate motor vehicle users to address issues related to damage of fragile alpine habitat in many areas of the region. Harmonizes with Region 8 prohibition.







Access – Motor Vehicle Prohibition for the purposes of hunting

Implement Motor Vehicle Closure for the purposes of hunting on Poison Mtn Road (~80 km on the Yalakom FSR) and all side roads to the regional boundary, September 15 to June 15th.

Approvals are in place for Sona Resources to connect the Yalakom FSR with Blackdome Mines via the Poison Mtn Road which is anticipated to increase vehicular and off-road traffic in the area with potential for negative consequences to mule deer and grizzly bears. MFLNRO has committed to this closure as a mitigation option to address concerns raised by both the TNG and St’at’imc Nation.



Access – Motor Vehicle Prohibition

Amend existing regulation that prohibits Motor Vehicles for the purposes of hunting in the watershed of Clinton Creek to a year round Motor Vehicle closure. See map C14 on pg 46 of 2012-14 Hunting & Trapping Regulations Synopsis.

Primary rationale is to restrict motor vehicle access to sensitive wildlife habitats and to protect the watershed as a source of community water.



Access-3-28 snowmobile prohibition

Amend restriction to include dates that it would apply. Currently, the entire MU is closed to snowmobiling for the purposes of hunting year round. This change would allow snowmobiles for the purposes of hunting from Dec 15 – March 31st.

Primary rationale is to provide winter access for predator hunting, specifically wolves and cougars. This historical regulation has been in place since the 1970s when it was implemented to reduce access to important winter ranges for moose and deer. Back then, there were few to no harvest restrictions (no antler point regulations for deer, GOS for any bull moose, etc.). The proposed season dates will fall outside of the GOS spike fork season for bull moose and the GOS any buck season for deer, and when combined with other restrictions in place (antler point regulations, LEH for moose, etc.), conservation concerns will be alleviated.

[Rackem]

Soooo.....those big rams opening up at Spences? :P

[Ghengis Khandrey]

I like all of these proposed changes

[Darksith]

Totally support all proposals. If they say the bull moose/cow ratios are slipping then they need to address this. Sucks, but necessary. No idea about the goat changes, or much about the areas where they will prohibit motor vehicles, but I really dig the sheep openings, would be nice to get that draw.

[Steeleco]

Sounds good in my mind. Especially the increase in White tailed deer.

[r106]

Sounds good to me especially the whitetail and wolf changes

[Jelvis]

3-29 east of Rosseau Creek wood b a total winner for some lucky ram leh er
Some huge Cali rams wood be got. dana's sheep pix are in what wood B 3-29 east of Rosseau Creek.
it's a vinner, it sure wood b sought after by sheep hunters this wood b, the hunt beyond reality of sheep hunting for bighorn any ram. You gotta be kidden me!
An LEH Gold Seal Cali Sheep Hunt Any Ram 3-29 eastahrosseau.. Hot dam you could reach out and touch one under 250 yards. Bah Hoom! Full curl with an extra flare .. drive in and step out -- i'm lozin it

[blackbart]

Good work by the region #3 Bio's. Perhaps some of their colleagues in other areas of the province could come over for a visit.

[HarryToolips]

I hunt and scout region 3-12 regularly, and have seen quite a few big bull moose there, however I see way more cows..still hard to believe that many immatures are harvested..what's happening with our GOS on them anyway, 4 years ago the season was from Sept 20- Oct 31, now currently Oct 15 to Nov 15, and now this proposed?? Is there more First Nations shootin the bulls or something?? And I wonder if the proposed whitetail bag limits are also proposed for the Okanagan, as some regions don't seem to have high enough WT numbers to support that kind of harvest, while others definitely do..

[EvanG]

Hopefully the reg 5 bios will look at these and make a few of there own.

[Jelvis]

I like the shortened gos spike/fork bull moose to Nov 1 to Nov 15 in 3.
Let those young guns grow. From a month to two weeks seems like a good proposal

[dana]

Looks great! I don't have any issues with any of those proposals. More Sheep LEH means the odds on drawing might actually get down to once a lifetime. The whitetail baglimits are also pretty damn good. It'll help keep those weeds at bay. Maybe one day we can get a no baglimit no closed season on them too. ;)

[Deadshot]

So the new 3-17C LEH season would be after the GOS or in lieu of it?

[yama49]

Good work done, look foward to the changes..

[swampdonkey]

No problem with them maybe increase leh authorizations eventually

[swampdonkey]

I hunt and scout region 3-12 regularly, and have seen quite a few big bull moose there, however I see way more cows..still hard to believe that many immatures are harvested..what's happening with our GOS on them anyway, 4 years ago the season was from Sept 20- Oct 31, now currently Oct 15 to Nov 15, and now this proposed?? Is there more First Nations shootin the bulls or something?? And I wonder if the proposed whitetail bag limits are also proposed for the Okanagan, as some regions don't seem to have high enough WT numbers to support that kind of harvest, while others definitely do..
I've seen first nation hunting moose in 3-18 3-19 since July

[ElliotMoose]

Looks good to me! I am noticing first hand the lack of bulls in my region 3 area. No problem finding cows and calves but I'm lucky to see one bull to every 30-40 cows. "Harrytoolips" - The moose season being pushed back is in an effort to decrease pressure during the rut, which is when the animals are most vulnerable. Nov 1-15 is a tough go for moose but hey, a little hard work never hurt anyone right?

[Weatherby Fan]

Great looking proposals,nice to see area 3 Bios are on top of things.
WF

[hare_assassin]

All of the changes seem like the right thing to do. Good going, Bios.

[Stillhunting]

The changes sound good to me but I'm wondering if they will lengthen the white-tail doe season to match the longer buck season. I can't see myself taking two does and not being able to hunt bucks for the last 40 days. I like the idea of bagging a couple of bucks though. There is definitely no shortage of the tasty critters around these woods.

[Amphibious]

I really like these amendments. Especially the ATV restrictions.

[bcmulie]

If the 3-17C LEH season is intended to supplement the GOS on mature bighorns, that's great. However, I suspect it is intended to replace the GOS, in which case this is a huge decrease in hunter opportunity. Most of us will never draw a region 3 LEH sheep tag, or at a minimum they will be few and far between.

[lovemywinchester]

The changes sound good to me but I'm wondering if they will lengthen the white-tail doe season to match the longer buck season. I can't see myself taking two does and not being able to hunt bucks for the last 40 days. I like the idea of bagging a couple of bucks though. There is definitely no shortage of the tasty critters around these woods.

I agree. Looks to me like the does will be open from the start. That would be nice to bag a doe early and then concentrate on a big buck later. A WT doe is not hard to find around here, thats for sure. If you see one there is usually a bunch near by.
I think they should have made WT a three deer limit with only one buck. This would have done more to curb the WT invasion I think. Plus I could eat WT steaks every day and you really dont get much out of a doe.

[BigfishCanada]

region 3 bios seem to be top notch, I like what I see. If moose are down, close em down until we see growth. I saw a whack of moose carcus last year

[swampdonkey]

region 3 bios seem to be top notch, I like what I see. If moose are down, close em down until we see growth. I saw a whack of moose carcus last year
Even if the close it for us. The natives will still get there's . They have to close it for everybody then .

[hare_assassin]

I agree. Looks to me like the does will be open from the start. That would be nice to bag a doe early and then concentrate on a big buck later. A WT doe is not hard to find around here, thats for sure. If you see one there is usually a bunch near by.
I think they should have made WT a three deer limit with only one buck. This would have done more to curb the WT invasion I think. Plus I could eat WT steaks every day and you really dont get much out of a doe.

Ahhhh, you guys! If there are that many around, why so tight-lipped??!!! C'mon! Spill the beans!

[coach]

Changes look pretty good. I think the LEH opportunity east of Rousseau creek will be a popular draw since you can pretty much drive right up to them. I'm sure it won't take long for the animals to act a little more "wild" like they do on the other side of the line. (Current LEH area). If the moose season change is necessary, then it makes sense 1 however, iirc region 8 has been pushing to go back to an earlier start date as things were a couple years ago. As mentioned by other posters, there is a lot of native moose hunting that goes on throughout the summer and that is likely the biggest factor in bull numbers being down. It would be nice to see all user groups working together. (Yeah right). I've seen more bulls in 3-12 this year in only a couple days than I did any of the last few seasons - but they are jittery. Whitetail change is a good one. Those who can't find them need to put a little time in scouting. They are definitely there.

[lovemywinchester]

Ahhhh, you guys! If there are that many around, why so tight-lipped??!!! C'mon! Spill the beans!

Go for a hike HA, lol. They are all over the place. Thicker the bush the better. We shot a WT doe last year out of a pack of mulie does. They hide in plain sight.

[HarryToolips]

Looks good to me! I am noticing first hand the lack of bulls in my region 3 area. No problem finding cows and calves but I'm lucky to see one bull to every 30-40 cows. "Harrytoolips" - The moose season being pushed back is in an effort to decrease pressure during the rut, which is when the animals are most vulnerable. Nov 1-15 is a tough go for moose but hey, a little hard work never hurt anyone right?
I do realize they're trying to push the season away from the rut, makes sense and if numbers are down then shorten the season for sure, it's just concerning that the season for spike fork moose continues to decrease, there must be an underlying issue that needs to be dealt with, starting hopefully with First Nations policing themselves!!! We don't want to have a moose population problem like some regions are currently battling with.

[rides bike to work]

I like the changes. It's hard to get people hunting the WTD with only a three deer limit as for me I like to hunt white tail bucks mule bucks and black tail bucks

[hare_assassin]

Go for a hike HA, lol. They are all over the place. Thicker the bush the better. We shot a WT doe last year out of a pack of mulie does. They hide in plain sight.

I'm out there "all the time". Only WT I ever saw was way up near Bonaparte.

[burger]

All of the choices that will be made will be moot as if there is still unregulated harvests we have no real way of determining how said changes are working. Is the post rut spike fork season the real cause of the decline? I personally don't think so but the Bios do need to try anything they can to limit the bulls harvested and with them being handcuffed with a portion of the hunters out there sadly we as the other half will slowly notice a dwindling opportunity within the province. Once the chanes are implemented we will not be getting it back

[Darksith]

All of the choices that will be made will be moot as if there is still unregulated harvests we have no real way of determining how said changes are working. Is the post rut spike fork season the real cause of the decline? I personally don't think so but the Bios do need to try anything they can to limit the bulls harvested and with them being handcuffed with a portion of the hunters out there sadly we as the other half will slowly notice a dwindling opportunity within the province. Once the chanes are implemented we will not be getting it back

I don't agree at all with that statement. Them opening up more sheep areas proves that. They are monitoring the health of the population, both in numbers, sex and age and making decisions to maintain health, not restrict opportunities. They need more young moose to make it to maturity to strengthen the numbers of the bull population. I agree that its not the spike fork season that is the cause, but its a solution. If the bull count goes up in a few years they might be able to lengthen the season again. I do agree that its hard to manage when there is a wild card out there, and they have been going hard since sept 1 in kamloops anyway, but the bios gotta work with what they have, they don't make the laws. I also agree that change is needed. At what point does heritage become obsolete? Its gotta happen eventually doesn't it?

[Stillhunting]

I don't agree at all with that statement. Them opening up more sheep areas proves that. They are monitoring the health of the population, both in numbers, sex and age and making decisions to maintain health, not restrict opportunities. They need more young moose to make it to maturity to strengthen the numbers of the bull population. I agree that its not the spike fork season that is the cause, but its a solution. If the bull count goes up in a few years they might be able to lengthen the season again. I do agree that its hard to manage when there is a wild card out there, and they have been going hard since sept 1 in kamloops anyway, but the bios gotta work with what they have, they don't make the laws. I also agree that change is needed. At what point does heritage become obsolete? Its gotta happen eventually doesn't it?

And what's up with being able to hunt a species, because of traditional rights, that was not even present before logging opened up the habitat for a southward migration.

[dana]

A little over 20 years ago moose pops in Region 3 were in the toilet and bull/cow ratios were horrible. They shut down the seasons for a few years and then let out small amounts of LEH bull tags and then as it got better, more bull tags and started the spike/fork GOS. The moose went from horrible to good in a relatively short timeframe. But now, moose pops are again in the toilet. And while so many of you are banging on the First Nations, the real answer is right there in the Regulation changes ain't it? WOLVES!!!! In most of Region 3 this ain't a 'us versus them' when it comes to the moose. The wolves have taken a huge chunk and we are left fighting for the crumbs. The northern part of the Region has been under siege for the last 5 years. They have now moved south. If you hunt moose in the south, then get off your asses and take up hunting wolves. No bag limit and no closed season. This is a good thing.

[dana]

If the 3-17C LEH season is intended to supplement the GOS on mature bighorns, that's great. However, I suspect it is intended to replace the GOS, in which case this is a huge decrease in hunter opportunity. Most of us will never draw a region 3 LEH sheep tag, or at a minimum they will be few and far between.

I think you have a situation where a small group of hunters ruined it for everyone else. When all the rams killed are illegal, what other choice do they have but to close it down and turn it LEH? The warnings have been going on for years now but falling on deaf ears when it comes to the hunting community. The fact that it is now LEH doesn't equal a bad thing. More LEH opportunities mean less hunters applying per unit means odds will be quite a bit better and you might actually get drawn once in your lifetime. And just think, now that the under aged short rams can grow up instead of being killed, there will be some absolute Crankers in the years to come.

[Jelvis]

I'd beg to differ on the more leh any rams east of rosseau will lower the odds for the leh 3-29 any ram sheep lotto is simply wrong, because more sheep hunters are going to apply for this twilight zone any Cali ram leh, it wood be a sin not tryin to win, and the cash will flow for mu three tow niner, a,b,c,d, any ram is going to be hotter than a fire cracker. Lucky leh any Cali ram in 3-29 B wood be a phee nom.
Pay the fee and if you win - Bang your head Metal Health Will Dry hive Yah Ma-Had
jel Quiet Riot metal health in 329 - B, east of Rosseau a little south of heaven.

[frenchbar]

^ get back to the redskin game jelram...

[dana]

Jelly, the guys that hunt Spences GOS still put in for sheep Leh in other areas like Kamloops Lake. Since you can only put in one sheep card, you now will see the 900:1 being split in multiple units and seasons. The first year will be the gamble as to 'where' to put in as you don't have any previous years odds to give ya an educated guess on what other hunters are thinking. With a top 5 Rocky ram being found dead recently, many will chase the genetics and stick with Spences. There was a Giant Cali killed recently in Clinton, many will chase those genetics. With several known Giants in Tranquile, many will chase that dream. And of course there are still the Giants in the Kamloops Lake unit, you have some leaning that way. Overall odds will be split and therefore odds of drawing a tag will be much better.

[Jelvis]

dana you cood b right, maybe it will spread it out. How many Cali any ram leh can one hunter apply for at once? A person with a valid BC Hunting Number.
For bighorns?
Jel curious 2 lay zee 2 look em up lol .. you hunters know the latest and the newest

[Darksith]

really jel? Rules havent changed for ever...lay off the weed or something. 1 entry per species

[russm86]

I was just thinking moose populations were doing ok in reg 3, or 3-28 anyways. Just last weekend I saw 2 real big bulls up 3-28 in one afternoon and got a 3rd on trail cam... I have pics of all 3 to prove too... I have never seen this many moose in a whole hunting season here let alone one weekend....

[Jelvis]

I'm thinking in a decade or two all moose will be leh.
gos deer
leh antlerless mules
leh sheep
leh elk
etc
Jel .. It's going lottery leh all across the big game in the future imho with the
exception of whitetailed deer, mule deer gos. Spike/Fork Bull Moose will be punted.

[dana]

Jelly, wake up man, it has been all LEH for 20 years. Don't for one second think that the Spike/Fork season isn't winning the lottery too.

[Jelvis]

I've heard many stories on here about finding dead three point bull moose beside an fsr dead, saw the birds went and looked and saw with their own eyes, and it hurts.
Spike/Fork bull moose isn't leh, it's gos with antler restrictions.
What you talkin bout Willis?

[Apolonius]

Biologists and people in the government will limit the non native hunter as it is the only one they can control.They will never blame the natives.They will be racists.Anyone in this country that dares to call for equality is racist,and the ones that want special treatment are progressive.Limited entry gives them control and money.The shortened season in 3:29 will result in more young spikes to get bigger and so we got more bulls in.....you guessed right LEH.And one day it will be all limited entry.And they can do it, like it or not.They dont ask your input.Living in a province like BC full of game and thanks to mismanagement and "illegal " harvest with their blessing, now they want more and more restrictions.If they wanted to save the moose ,they could close road access to sensitive areas ,and close the season after November till the next fall,for everyone.Killing a dry cow in July is as stupid as it gets.That cow is the only thing that could give you more moose by getting pregnant in the fall.Maybe the government people should grow some balls and make equal laws for everyone.I do agree with the wolf problem.It is nice to see more LHE for Sheep though.Too bad for spences but we did it ourselves.

[MerrittBow]

Native harvest around Merritt is a really big problem, but they can't change that.

[Lillypuff]

Lots of bulls in the area I hunt. Saw a cow with 2 young bulls this evening. Last year probably saw 15 cows and at least 5 bulls. Tough to argue with the bios so at least they are keeping an eye on things

[Jelvis]

Just like the States everything but deer will be LEH lottery in the next few years.
leh is the only way to limit hunters to a certain number and it's happening now.
Leh for everything but some types of deer sooner than later.
jello .. imho .. I read about it way back and now it's slowly coming true.