Bear Witness: a film by BC's Coastal First Nations

[skibum]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/bear-witness-a-film-by-bcs-coastal-first-nations/article14114767/

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDg24d8fF1Q&html5=1


I have to think about this more, but I really don't see a response to an irrational emotional argument presented in the film.

They are really good at the public relations game. I would think outside money funding this.

[skibum]

I kind of wonder why the G&M would post that film without a corresponding story. Obviously biased a little

[adriaticum]

Are they trying to say that these guys were poaching?
Is hunting closed or is it just an FN sign?

[Abashai]

There was only one person who made mention of management based on science but immediately turned it into an emotional moral discussion.
They are very good at swaying your emotions and I think that is the whole point. There is no real hard evidence to support the fact that the bear hunt is damaging the overall population but if they get enough people on board they could effect some change and slowly but surely one more of our opportunities will be whittled away.

[Amphibious]

Posted:


I can't wait to get drawn for a Bella Coola Grizz LEH. Amazing country to hunt and a once in a lifetime experience. The BC Provincial LEH system is carefully regulated and based on science.. Emotionalizing, naming the bears, and bringing mythology into the issue is purely designed to wind the hearts and minds of the uninformed urbanites. I see a well put together video, more likely then not, funded by outside sources, by people upset that they're not getting any payouts from a legal hunt.


I like the stuff at the end. "enforced by tribal law". This would get very ugly if they trying to prevent me from a legal hunt.

[Sofa King]

There was only one person who made mention of management based on science but immediately turned it into an emotional moral discussion.
They are very good at swaying your emotions and I think that is the whole point. There is no real hard evidence to support the fact that the bear hunt is damaging the overall population but if they get enough people on board they could effect some change and slowly but surely one more of our opportunities will be whittled away.

true.
but common sense says that it sure isn't increasing their #'s.

[Sofa King]

Posted:




I like the stuff at the end. "enforced by tribal law". This would get very ugly if they trying to prevent me from a legal hunt.

what is it you think you would/could do?
they put up illegal roadblocks all the time, and it's us who gets arrested when we try to run through it.
the law will not stand up to the Indians.
hell, they killed a cop and shot at helicopters at oka and what was ever done? nothing.

[coach]

true.
but common sense says that it sure isn't increasing their #'s.

Really? Educate us on grizzly numbers over the last couple decades, please.

[Darksith]

we all need to comment on the film. Making note that emotions do not have any business in science, and there are some great facts to spout off from the open chat about this area and G bears...the more comments that show reason and science as the basis, the more the emotional argument will look foolish

[coach]

we all need to comment on the film. Making note that emotions do not have any business in science, and there are some great facts to spout off from the open chat about this area and G bears...the more comments that show reason and science as the basis, the more the emotional argument will look foolish

Great point. Science should trump emotion every time.

[ruger#1]

Watch CTV at 6 PM. They look like the natives want him to do something and want trophy hunting banned in B.C.

[Cookie1965]

Does anyone else remember before Walt Disney started teaching generations of children that animals talk and have feelings just like humans?

[kentucky]

Read between the lines. The natives want to take over bear management for their own financial reward whether it's hunting or tourism.

[Charts]

In one breath they say save the bears but they say it as they are plugging the rivers and oceans with their nets stealing and killing the salmon runs. If the salmon doesnt sell they are dumped in the bush. The Griz in that region have about 90% of their diet is salmon. So really they are killing their own bears. Take care of your own people and their ethics then worry about the guy who is hunting within the laws and regulations set out by the government.

[Abashai]

true.
but common sense says that it sure isn't increasing their #'s.

Possibly a fair point, however I have heard that large male grizzly's often kill another male's cubs so that the female will go into heat in the fall. So hunting actually helps the population overall as most trophy hunters are trying to target large, solitary boars.

[40incher]

The large American Trust Funds are backing the Indians with millions of dollars to push the anti-hunting agenda. They are like pigs to the trough. Kind of sad really, when they espouse to be a hunting and gathering culture. They can be bought off by all the oil and gas companies too. Global TV should try and be a bit less biased. Gaylust should take a trip north ...

[islander7mm]

Christie Clark had an awesome comment in response to this video. Essentially saying that the province has a long history of hunting and that the game management is second to none and is based on scientific reaserch and will remain as such.

[ryanb]

The fact of the matter is grizzly hunting is somewhat indefensible when it comes to public optics. It is a trophy hunt where the meat is almost always not taken...While it remains legal for now, those that partake in this hunt would be wise to keep it low profile if they wish to keep it legal. Posting of dead grizzly pictures by high profile athletes is certainly NOT going to help.

[islander7mm]

The fact of the matter is grizzly hunting is somewhat indefensible when it comes to public optics. It is a trophy hunt where the meat is almost always not taken...While it remains legal for now, those that partake in this hunt would be wise to keep it low profile if they wish to keep it legal. Posting of dead grizzly pictures by high profile athletes is certainly NOT going to help.

Very good point.

[greenhorn]

The fact of the matter is grizzly hunting is somewhat indefensible when it comes to public optics. It is a trophy hunt where the meat is almost always not taken...While it remains legal for now, those that partake in this hunt would be wise to keep it low profile if they wish to keep it legal. Posting of dead grizzly pictures by high profile athletes is certainly NOT going to help.

Actually I think this is a bad idea, not a good point. Acting like you did something wrong by keeping your grizz hunt on the down low will never help sustain any hunt.

If your personal opinion is that you disagree with leaving meat behind then that's fine, but I think you're way off by recommending hiding any aspect of a legal hunt.

Do you think the public's opinion on grizz hunting would change if all of a sudden you had to take the meat..... I doubt it.

[SAVAGEONE]

what is it you think you would/could do?
they put up illegal roadblocks all the time, and it's us who gets arrested when we try to run through it.
the law will not stand up to the Indians.
hell, they killed a cop and shot at helicopters at oka and what was ever done? nothing.

The Law is equal for all Except some people are more equal than others.

[biggyun68]

what is it you think you would/could do?
they put up illegal roadblocks all the time, and it's us who gets arrested when we try to run through it.
the law will not stand up to the Indians.
hell, they killed a cop and shot at helicopters at oka and what was ever done? nothing.

Not saying anything for or against the native issue with this statement: The corners inquest determined the Surrete member killed was shot by his colleges not the natives: Friendly fire...
And the natives were arrested peacefully after the army was called in along with the natives who blockaded in BC that same summer

[bandit]

Everyone knows grizzlys are wild animals not pets. So it's wrong to give them a name. That's why the bears in Banff have numbers instead of names.

[Darksith]

we need to make many and continued logical and well thought out responses to comments made to this video on ALL websites. If we can keep it fact based, sound science based and push ethical and beneficial aspects of the hunt, it will make it harder for people to simply let their emotions come into play. The local communities should embrace all economical avenues for them to grow, if they don't then they can't make the economy a point of protest

[skibum]

Actually I think this is a bad idea, not a good point. Acting like you did something wrong by keeping your grizz hunt on the down low will never help sustain any hunt.



But it is an emotional issue, not rational. You will never win the public debate showing off grizzly kills or carcases left in the bush. Way too easy for anti's to twist the scenario. Totally different than a deer.

You know, gramps and grand-kids in a photo with the kids first deer vs. grizzly hunter pictured over a trophy. Comes across a little different.

Some things about wild harvest are not pretty and those not involved will never understand the whole picture

[coach]

But it is an emotional issue, not rational. You will never win the public debate showing off grizzly kills or carcases left in the bush. Way too easy for anti's to twist the scenario. Totally different than a deer.

You know, gramps and grand-kids in a photo with the kids first deer vs. grizzly hunter pictured over a trophy. Comes across a little different.

Some things about wild harvest are not pretty and those not involved will never understand the whole picture

Skibum - those arguments can be made about any animal, bird or even fish. It makes far more sense to talk about the benefits of hunting to game populations. It's difficult for non hunters (and many hunters) to understand how hunting grizzlies or wolves is actually good for both species (as well as ungulates) but once people understand the scientific justification of the hunt they often will respond with "I can't imagine killing one myself, but I'm ok with the concept of science based game management that ensures healthy game populations for future generations to enjoy". Hiding the fact that you hunt will most certainly guarantee that hunting will cease to exist in the future.

[Mik]

The fact of the matter is grizzly hunting is somewhat indefensible when it comes to public optics. It is a trophy hunt where the meat is almost always not taken...While it remains legal for now, those that partake in this hunt would be wise to keep it low profile if they wish to keep it legal. Posting of dead grizzly pictures by high profile athletes is certainly NOT going to help.

A legel hunter is a legal hunter, whether you're a star or not, and if youre proud of what you bagged, then post away.

[Mik]

Actually I think this is a bad idea, not a good point. Acting like you did something wrong by keeping your grizz hunt on the down low will never help sustain any hunt.

If your personal opinion is that you disagree with leaving meat behind then that's fine, but I think you're way off by recommending hiding any aspect of a legal hunt.

Do you think the public's opinion on grizz hunting would change if all of a sudden you had to take the meat..... I doubt it.

Agreed, well said

[ryanb]

Actually I think this is a bad idea, not a good point. Acting like you did something wrong by keeping your grizz hunt on the down low will never help sustain any hunt.

If your personal opinion is that you disagree with leaving meat behind then that's fine, but I think you're way off by recommending hiding any aspect of a legal hunt.

Do you think the public's opinion on grizz hunting would change if all of a sudden you had to take the meat..... I doubt it.

All I was saying is that it is indefensible. Generally speaking the public at large is okay with hunting when it is done for meat. Generally the public at large is not okay with trophy hunting, even if the meat is taken. The public at large most certainly is NOT okay with hunting when only the trophy (head, hide) is taken and the meat is left. I think we are all aware that public has an irrational sentimental feeling towards bears that certainly won't help our cause at all. If something is indefensible, it's far better to avoid having to defend it at all. If you think garnering wide-spread public sentiment AGAINST grizzly hunting is going to help our cause at all, I encourage you to reconsider. People are emotional, not rational.

Personally I'm not really into grizzly hunting, but I certainly don't want to see it banned! I have hunted grizzly, and I most likely will again in the future, so long as it remains legal. All I was doing is recommending we keep things a little more discrete. Biased news stories on the nightly tv news about grizzlies being killed by high profile athletes will only serve to cultivate more anti bear hunting sentiment in the general public.

[ryanb]

Remember the decision to shut down grizzly bear hunting would be a political one. If the politicians decide it is advantageous, politically, to do so...they will. Please don't confuse my views on public opinion, as my own opinions.

[Darksith]

why not make it mandatory to remove the meat then if thats all that matters. Take it with you, then do as you please with it. Some people take grizz meat home. And if first nation people are gonna claim they have never hunted for a trophy then I am gonna call them out on it. I am sure way back when a hunter or warrior would go kill a dangerous animal to prove how great he was, and gain a higher status in the tribe. Humans are humans, we have always done this, its what comes with a community that has different levels of hierarchy. It may not carry the same weight in todays society, but I guarantee trophy hunting has been going on since hunting and groups existed

[hare_assassin]

Remember the decision to shut down grizzly bear hunting would be a political one. If the politicians decide it is advantageous, politically, to do so...they will. Please don't confuse my views on public opinion, as my own opinions.

I get your point, Ryan. If the only defense we have is "it was a legal hunt, so shut up" then the response from the antis can only be "then we must make it illegal".

Somehow, the grizz hunters need to justify their trophies in an emotional/political way to sway public opinion.

They shouldn't have to, but that's the way things are going. It is an uphill battle, to say the least, and I can't say that I have any answers...

[Darksith]

Are you really hunting for a trophy, or are you hunting because you love the experience and consider it a challenge? The term trophy might be what we need to challenge. I bet not many hunters that are not successful in harvesting an animal consider the trip to be a disapointment. Thats what would be the case if it was merely trophy hunting.

[Chuck Norris]

Are you really hunting for a trophy, or are you hunting because you love the experience and consider it a challenge? The term trophy might be what we need to challenge. I bet not many hunters that are not successful in harvesting an animal consider the trip to be a disapointment. Thats what would be the case if it was merely trophy hunting.


I agree that the term "Trophy" can be interpreted however someone wants it to be. An anti may see trophy as killing for sport, where as a 12 year old would consider his first animal a trophy. In this video it says that there is a "formal ban on trophy hunting for bears", then it shows a color phase black bear (spirit bear to once again stir emotions), then it states "they forbid the killing of any kind of bear for sport". I can't see the natives letting anyone hunt there, even if they are going to take the meat and eat it. It is purely propaganda, and the video really has no point but to create an emotional out cry from the general public. Hunters can only fight this type of media with facts based on science and historical population evidence. Unfortunately, it is human nature to only hear/believe what they want. I have a feeling that this is only the beginning of this story. Next chapter; Natives confronting someone who is hunting there legally, and hopefully that doesn't turn ugly.

[riflebuilder]

I do not agree that we should keep a low profile I would not feel that I need to do that. All hunters should support each other, and based on science killing mature boars actually increases the population.