Hunting with my american cousin

[jsdboy]

hi all,
I got a call out of the blue from a cousin of mine that is a citizen of the excited states of amurica.
i was looking at the licensing fees and then came across a page that stated that for a "non resident alien " to be able to hunt this province that they either had to hire a guider outfitter, or be acompanied by a family member as per this page:

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/pasb/applications/process/accompany_hunt.html

note the part that states that a cousin is not "an accepted relationship" he was thinking of arriving in late october, which gives me the 4 weeks to make the application for a permit to accompany a non resident, and to decide whether my cousin is now a brother in law or not.

is this really for real??? does any one have any direct experience with having a family relative from the states come up to our province and hunt mule deer with them??
I must say that I am a little bit blown away. Maybe i am naive to think that i could simply have my cousin fly in and spend a pile of money up here and he basically be specifically not wanted. it is just a little too weird.

so i am hoping like hell that i am reading this bit incorrectly and that a non resident is welcome to this province to hunt and that the need for a guider outfitter is not legally necessary.

any help and clarification would be appreciated

jsd

[Whonnock Boy]

I am sure you have read it right. If he does not hire a guide, he cannot hunt here.

[BiG Boar]

i wasn't even aware that family from the states could come up here and hunt, but apparently, these are:



A non resident alien (a person who is neither a resident nor a non resident) whose relationship to the applicant falls within the following categories:




Father;
Mother;
Spouse;



Brother;
Sister;
Father-in-law;



Son;
Daughter;
Mother-in-law;



Uncle;
Aunt;
Son-in-law;



Nephew;
Niece;
Daughter-in-law;



Grandson;
Granddaughter;
Brother-in-law;



Grandfather;
Grandmother;
Sister-in-law.



NOTE: “COUSIN” is NOT an accepted relationship

[Gateholio]

He is not a Canadian, so must hire a guide if he wants to shoot a mule deer in BC

If you make a false application claiming he is your brother in law, expect to land in some hot water.

[bridger]

For sure cousin not on the list. A false application will land your cousin in a mess if caught in bc. He will be held in custody until court date. If he is sucessful and takes his deer home he is then subject to the international lacey act for wildlife trafficking. Not a good scenario. The permit to accompany policy is great, but is constantly under scrutiny of special interest group that wants it abolished. Dont give them any fuel to throw on the fire.

[riflebuilder]

For sure cousin not on the list. A false application will land your cousin in a mess if caught in bc. He will be held in custody until court date. If he is sucessful and takes his deer home he is then subject to the international lacey act for wildlife trafficking. Not a good scenario. The permit to accompany policy is great, but is constantly under scrutiny of special interest group that wants it abolished. Dont give them any fuel to throw on the fire.X2 very good advice don't mess with the rules these are watched closely and are good to have. I have taken my boys a few times and Canadian cousins after goats as well. We usually try to do one hunt a year with family.

[jsdboy]

For sure cousin not on the list. A false application will land your cousin in a mess if caught in bc. He will be held in custody until court date. If he is sucessful and takes his deer home he is then subject to the international lacey act for wildlife trafficking. Not a good scenario. The permit to accompany policy is great, but is constantly under scrutiny of special interest group that wants it abolished. Dont give them any fuel to throw on the fire.

ohh boy ok not gonna play any games- especially if the "special interest groups" are the guider outfitter associations. Maybe they have had some success int their continued efforts to control big game hunting in the province. i read this kinda stuff through the BCWF newsletters that i get and there are some pretty extravagant claims from the wildlife federation - stuff like the guides want to abolish LEH hunting for residents even and completely sew up the big game hunting in this province to the point that residents can not even hunt.
what do you suppose the special problem with a cousin is??
i am a little bit upset truth be told. i could happily apply to be an "acompany-er" and go through all that, but to cut out the cousin thing is just a little bit weird.
any way, I will be making some calls and keep this thread going even if it is just to vent :evil:
later, jsd

[solo]

Pretty hard to imagine any person on earth who is not a "cousin" by some definition.

[stugatz]

Yup, the guides would like nothing better than a resident have to hire them to hunt big game at the end of it all. Bad enough that the tax paying resident has to go through the LEH BULL S*IT.....and then to find out that the guides are allotted this many sheep,goats.moose etc..... I have nothing against personally, but when they come out with stupid demands from the MOE thus limiting our access to the sport we love.....then I have a problem. But I guess that's another thread......PS: jsdboy I know the rules above may seem a bit extreme but I guess if we could bring in "cuzins" then most of the US south would be here hunting.

[Fred1]

Yup, the guides would like nothing better than a resident have to hire them to hunt big game at the end of it all. Bad enough that the tax paying resident has to go through the LEH BULL S*IT.....and then to find out that the guides are allotted this many sheep,goats.moose etc..... I have nothing against personally, but when they come out with stupid demands from the MOE thus limiting our access to the sport we love.....then I have a problem. But I guess that's another thread......PS: jsdboy I know the rules above may seem a bit extreme but I guess if we could bring in "cuzins" then most of the US south would be here hunting.
Im a guide... the last person I want to guide is a resident hunters - I have had those... So please lets hope it doesn't come to residents needing guides. Lets not forget that the rules and regs are in place to protect what we have here, and many of these rules are/were in place due to what many resident hunters have abused. Don't hack outfitters because they are allotted quotas - its a business and the govt sees our animals as a resource which leads to govt revenue. The quotas are not written in stone - they can be taken away in a heart beat - some of the moose outfitters quotas were hit pretty hard two years ago. Some went out of business as a result of our gracious gov'ts wisdom. In addition, in 30 days, I know how much $$ we dump into the piss hole local community near our guide territory. Its huge! Non residents pay big bucks to hunt our animals and so they should. Just stickin up for the guides and oufitters.... :)

[ruger#1]

i wasn't even aware that family from the states could come up here and hunt, but apparently, these are:



A non resident alien (a person who is neither a resident nor a non resident) whose relationship to the applicant falls within the following categories:




Father;
Mother;
Spouse;



Brother;
Sister;
Father-in-law;



Son;
Daughter;
Mother-in-law;



Uncle;
Aunt;
Son-in-law;



Nephew;
Niece;
Daughter-in-law;



Grandson;
Granddaughter;
Brother-in-law;



Grandfather;
Grandmother;
Sister-in-law.



NOTE: “COUSIN” is NOT an accepted relationship



But what if they are kissing cousins?

[Steelwheels]

But what if they are kissing cousins?
Did you mean joined at the hip??

[.300WSMImpact!]

Pretty hard to imagine any person on earth who is not a "cousin" by some definition.

who cares, why could you not take an american friend, the fact that you have to hire a guide is an absolute joke

can one get his guide license and take a friend from another country out or does it have to be an actual outfitter?

[1/2 slam]

who cares, why could you not take an american friend, the fact that you have to hire a guide is an absolute joke

can one get his guide license and take a friend from another country out or does it have to be an actual outfitter?

No..............

[Salmon Belly]

Do you have a sister he could marry?

Or is that taking muley hunting too far??!

[TexasWalker]

who cares, why could you not take an american friend, the fact that you have to hire a guide is an absolute joke

can one get his guide license and take a friend from another country out or does it have to be an actual outfitter?

I disagree.

That's all we need up here is everyone bringing up their friends to hunt....no thanks.

[Fred1]

I disagree.

That's all we need up here is everyone bringing up their friends to hunt....no thanks.
EXACTLY!!!! Imagine if we let non residents hunt in BC. The flood of Americans alone into BC would be staggering!! You think our woods are busy with just us!?! Remember Canada's whole population is just south of us in California alone! Family or not, tough chit... Same goes for out of province - where do you pay your taxes?... Outfitters apply for guide licenses -To obtain a guide license - you have to be employed by an outfitter first! Best job on earth!! :D

[andrewscag]

The way I read it, regs say you may ALSO qualify for the permit to accompany if you're a relative. This would leave room for situations where a permit to accompany is granted for non relatives

I'd call the permit and authorization service bureau at 866.433.7272 and tell them what you'd like to do and ask how to go about it if its legal. This assumes that you've had you're license for at least 3 of the previous 5 years. Otherwise I think you're still sol

Curious to hear what they say

[Jimbo]

You can't take a cousin hunting here but your father or mother can take their nephew out. Maybe that solves the problem.

[.300WSMImpact!]

I disagree.

That's all we need up here is everyone bringing up their friends to hunt....no thanks.

I would rather bring my friend then some American pay a guide outfit WAY too much money to hunt, its sad that the guides have so much power over the hunting seasons

[.300WSMImpact!]

EXACTLY!!!! Imagine if we let non residents hunt in BC. The flood of Americans alone into BC would be staggering!! You think our woods are busy with just us!?! Remember Canada's whole population is just south of us in California alone! Family or not, tough chit... Same goes for out of province - where do you pay your taxes?... Outfitters apply for guide licenses -To obtain a guide license - you have to be employed by an outfitter first! Best job on earth!! :D

typical guide response

[bridger]

The way I read it, regs say you may ALSO qualify for the permit to accompany if you're a relative. This would leave room for situations where a permit to accompany is granted for non relatives

I'd call the permit and authorization service bureau at 866.433.7272 (tel:866.433.7272) and tell them what you'd like to do and ask how to go about it if its legal. This assumes that you've had you're license for at least 3 of the previous 5 years. Otherwise I think you're still sol
B
Curious to hear what they say

The system is quite simple. A licensed bc resident hunter can obtain a permit to accompany a canadian non resident friend or relative makes no difference. Nonresident aliens( not a resident of canada) must qualify as an immediate family member as other posts have identified. The line is drawn at cousins. You can't take your cousin but your father can take his nephew. Your father must go on the hunt and accompany his nephew.

[604redneck]

Don't make him ur brother in law if he isn't. It will end bad.....

[Frango]

typical guide response
As a saltwater fisherman I see a lot of American fisherman .I have no problem with Americans coming into our water and fishing. There are lot of hatchery spring salmon on the coast, most are American..When it comes to hunting only BC residents should have the honour of hunting in BC. There is an economical reason to allow guided hunting in BC. Guide/outfitters have a legitimate business that brings value to BC wildlife. Allowing foreign hunters from anywhere else to hunt without a guide is just suicidal to our right to hunt. Next time you go hunting and don't see another hunter thank the guide rule.

[jsdboy]

The way I read it, regs say you may ALSO qualify for the permit to accompany if you're a relative. This would leave room for situations where a permit to accompany is granted for non relatives

I'd call the permit and authorization service bureau at 866.433.7272 and tell them what you'd like to do and ask how to go about it if its legal. This assumes that you've had you're license for at least 3 of the previous 5 years. Otherwise I think you're still sol

Curious to hear what they say

yeah! finally some concrete advice on how to acquire more information!
thank you Andrew i will be on the phone this Tuesday when the offices open back up again.

I have to let the arguments for and agin the outfitting community sit for a bit. it spills out to all kinds of sensitive subjects. I guess the one that burns my ass the very worse is I am getting warned about the dire consequences of falsely labeling a cousin as a brother in law so that he could come up here and hunt for the first and most likely last (given his age) time ever, yet i can go into a Canadian Tire in the interior (does not matter where, close your eyes and point at the map) and over hear someone say "hey joeseph! i got my 10th moose last week, been a good year eh?". these conversations are generally made by our first nations folk that need to do this for subsistance......................... I am very proud of myself about the extent of emotional control that i exhibit when I hear these things and i hear them every year. so the moral of the story is the same one: if i attempt to do this all by the book my opportunity for becoming a criminal is increased 10 fold. too bad i quit smoking, i miss my cigarettes at times like these.....

and so i will drop that and go split some wood and thank you all for you comments. wil let you know how the conversation with the permit and authoriztion boys go. cheers!
jsd

[Darksith]

The last thing we need is every tom dick and harry coming up here because they are a cousin, is that first cousin, second cousin...come on. He can go hunting with you, but he can't and shouldn't be allowed to harvest an animal. I totally agree with this, and I think in laws should be stricken from the page as well. Cut your tag and give him some meat, but to take extra animals, we would soon be on LEH for everything. Protect what we have, where we live, no need to let 300 million americans bust into BC because they were step cousins of a ex husband from someone who was their own grandpa.

[stugatz]

Im a guide... the last person I want to guide is a resident hunters - I have had those... So please lets hope it doesn't come to residents needing guides. Lets not forget that the rules and regs are in place to protect what we have here, and many of these rules are/were in place due to what many resident hunters have abused. Don't hack outfitters because they are allotted quotas - its a business and the govt sees our animals as a resource which leads to govt revenue. The quotas are not written in stone - they can be taken away in a heart beat - some of the moose outfitters quotas were hit pretty hard two years ago. Some went out of business as a result of our gracious gov'ts wisdom. In addition, in 30 days, I know how much $$ we dump into the piss hole local community near our guide territory. Its huge! Non residents pay big bucks to hunt our animals and so they should. Just stickin up for the guides and oufitters.... :)
Agreed....to a certain point. I have good friends of mine that are sheep hunters and at the end of the day if a local shoots a sheep in a guides territory (or any other animal for that matter) you are looked upon with disdain and utter disgust (its happened to them),its everybody's land to use. Its when they demand curbed access and reduced LEH opportunities for residents that pisses people off. And as far as local economies being helped by guides..... residents also pump a lot of money during the hunting season.....just sayin.

[Rackem]

When it comes to hunting only BC residents should have the honour of hunting in BC. There is an economical reason to allow guided hunting in BC. Guide/outfitters have a legitimate business that brings value to BC wildlife. Allowing foreign hunters from anywhere else to hunt without a guide is just suicidal to our right to hunt. Next time you go hunting and don't see another hunter thank the guide rule.

Exactly, I 100% Agree, we have the best hunting in the world, I don't want a bunch of Americans taking animals over residents or guides.

[bridger]

So when your son born and raised in bc gets transfered to alberta you can longer hunt with your son? Think anout it.

[Rackem]

Why not bridger? I would have to apply for the non resident permit, but could still hunt with my son. He is still a Canadian...and my son...

[ramcam]

Cousin opens it up for a whole lot of dishonesty, there are those that would abuse the rule!

[Fred1]

So when your son born and raised in bc gets transfered to alberta you can longer hunt with your son? Think anout it.
Yup sorry hes a non resident and pays his taxes in Alberta... his choice. doesn't mean you cant hunt with him - many of my BC friends hunt BC and Sask every year and don't bitch about the costs - again their choice.

[Fred1]

Agreed....to a certain point. I have good friends of mine that are sheep hunters and at the end of the day if a local shoots a sheep in a guides territory (or any other animal for that matter) you are looked upon with disdain and utter disgust (its happened to them),its everybody's land to use. Its when they demand curbed access and reduced LEH opportunities for residents that pisses people off. And as far as local economies being helped by guides..... residents also pump a lot of money during the hunting season.....just sayin.

Agreed! it is Crown/public land and I will hunt any of it I can get to. As for locals getting looked upon with utter disgust etc - it does happen, some outfitters feel they own territories - they don't. I love seeing another hunter successful regardless! I let them know it too - If you got to the trouble to get a sheep or get lucky and drop a moose on the road in an outfitters territory - way to go!!! I have done it! Smile and wave! :)

[Fred1]

I would rather bring my friend then some American pay a guide outfit WAY too much money to hunt, its sad that the guides have so much power over the hunting seasons

Guides and outfitters have no power over the hunting seasons - that's your govt... As for the cost... outfitters charge what the market will bear - what is a person willing to pay? His choice. Free enterprise - its the foundation of our economy.

[Fred1]

Yup find me a guide in any market that doesn't love it! Its a great job! I always love the comments from guys who have never been one or even tried to become one and know so much about it- bitch bitch complain bitch... "its not fair" whaaa whaa whaaa LMAO! Always angry and jealous that some people can take some time off work, hunt 70+ days a year, see the back wilds of this great province and make a few $$ doing it. Ya it sucks.... Hows that for a "typical guide's response" ??

[bearvalley]

Yup find me a guide in any market that doesn't love it! Its a great job! I always love the comments from guys who have never been one or even tried to become one and know so much about it- bitch bitch complain bitch... "its not fair" whaaa whaa whaaa LMAO! Always angry and jealous that some people can take some time off work, hunt 70+ days a year, see the back wilds of this great province and make a few $$ doing it. Ya it sucks.... Hows that for a "typical guide's response" ??

Lol. Don't weaken. A lot of the outfitter bashers would give their left nut to be one.
If they were capable....

[Gateholio]

Outfitters bottom line is of no concern of mine. They are running a business using a public resource and it's up to them to be profitable, but I wouldn't want BC permits to accompany rules relaxed at all.

I wouldn't want BC opened up to any all non resident hunting simply because it would destroy what we have. I'm all for more resident hunters getting out hunting and quite happy with our current permit to accompany system. I don't think cousins or friends should be added to the list. We need to ensure that we conserve BC's wild spaces and wild animals and that unfortunately means limiting who can hunt here to residents and those that want to pay for outfitters.

[tuner]

if i'm not mistaken" non resident aliens" regardless of kinship, can legally get a bc hunting licence but can only hunt small game.