Need help CO reading regs different then me? How do you read it?

[kilometers]

So I'm all set up to go bow hunting for my first time. Been practising all year and was set on hitting up a local spot that I can access afterwork For the week long opening Not a major concentration of moose but they are their.

Now my dad asked a CO if we were legal) to hunt this portion of the mu.
Stumped the officer said he would bring it up in a meeting. Now my dad has gotten a call back( which is super cool) saying its a no go on hunting this area with the bow. The officer was super friendly and is actually contacting Victoria to get an official verdict.

Mu 6-3 6-11 6-10
bow only sept 1-9
moose

http://i40.tinypic.com/2m7djly.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2ngaqn5.jpg
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http://i41.tinypic.com/1o3k74.jpg

so the way I see it bow hunting has no restrictions but 6-15 has a triangle meaning restriction but if you look at the rifle portion for 6-1 to 6-11 it has the restrictions
the triangle tells you to see maps f2- but f-7 would include my spot.

Map 7 is the issue is that area leh only. But everybody hunts it in the gos rifle too. This f7 map isn't new but does it apply? Can you even hunt these portions during gos rifle?

i want some opinions before I confront a CO

[Steeleco]

I'd say if the area you plan on hunting is in the shaded area of F7 then sadly your not allowed to hunt unless you've an LEH and not till later in the season. If you were to hunt north of the Skeena your good to go, not south of the river.

I don't see any part of 6-15 that is in the shaded area you speak of. Now I'm confused!!

[Darksith]

much easier to visit the online version than try to piece together your pics, but as I see it you have a bow only season north of the skeena MU 6-15 from sept 1-9. There is no portion that says you can't hunt during that time in any of the maps listed. I too am confused though, what MU do you wanna bow hunt sept 1?

If your spot is in the shaded area it clearly says LEH only. That includes bow hunting. The other portions of 6-3+6-11 there is a bow only season sept 1-9

[Avalanche123]

I don't agree with the CO. Bow season hunting (Sept 1 to Sept 9) entitles you to hunt the MU's you want to hunt with a bow. The regs get fuzzier if you plan to use a rifle which at best case is only Sept 20 to 26 unless you have LEH...(which you don't).

[kilometers]

My area is in the shaded area on f7. I only used 6-15 as a reference because it has the triangle. We're the bow only season for 6-1 to 6-11 dosnt have a triangle or retriction. The restriction in 6-15 is the nass portion that has been moose depleted and is open to Nisga only by lotto.
All areas around the area have leh from sept10 to October something
But the 6-1 to 6-11 rifle season has the triangle restriction referring you to map f7. This triangle is not on the bow only season

I see both sides. Map f7
It clearly says leh only.
Then it clearly says the general open season for bull moose in this area is October 20 etc.
so it's leh only but has a gos oct21 to 26?
Which all areas in region 6 are open for rifle moose during that time
above it says bow only season 6-1-6-11, 6-15triangle,
so you can rifle hunt the area in f7 october21 but the Bow guys don't get their own season

[Jelvis]

The CO has his or her own opinion and they red and studied the regs.
When a CO in hunting season is doing her or his job, they enforce the wildlife act, they can do their job in the field and do it the best that is possible at the time, the court can figure out if it's the right charge or wouldn't get a guilty because of mitigating factors to get more time to get evidence or get a guilty plea or do a hallway justice, pleads guilty to a lesser charge and saves court time in BC court time is exspensive, and the Judge don't like minor things in major. They might have no time for this and he or she works on a much more serious case needing attention, he canz your til when ever.
If you have a disagreement with a BC CO don't argue in the bush about you think he or she is wrong. Lol, you have aright to remain silent, please do haha.
First, a CO has powers of authority invested in them, they wear a uniform.
Second, argue after the season is over and put a request in for a change so it's clearer for bowhunters to understand. Most things in writing or talking on media are done on a grade 5 level, people have low educational skills and can't or won't comprehend past grade 5.
Talk in a room with others and debate this concern over and over til you see the light.
Listen to the CO and answer his or her questions, be truthful and be correct in your words, don't argue, listen, calm down, relax.
Example: Bowhunter; Hey Officer I can shoot my bow here it says so in the regs
Officer. What makes you think this area is open to hunt with a bow?
You, Look right here, at the coloring the shady areas! It's right there. Jeeeeez
besides that I can hunt not just shoot, look here,
Officer I'm sorry but the way it reads your commiting an offence this area is closed! NOW you .. shutthe----up. say nothing and listen hard
Officer... I will ask you a simple quesion, WARNING! .. CAUTION THINK!
Which area were you hunting in?
you .. omg, ahhhh, over there, you point --> I was legally hunting right there
Officer. Have you got your hunting licence with you ah Mr.? co's thinking o oh.
Officer pulls out radio and squelches .. yah josie c,mon in now..got a hot one!
Officer. have you ever done this before? co thinks .. maybe the one we bin lookin 4
You .. ahhhhhhhh whaaaaaaaaaIIIIIIIIIDON KNOWWWWWWwhat am I doing? ok
Jel ..K.I.S.S. yer A.S.S. good bye your S.O.L. .. A.S.A. P. -- D.O.A. ..

[Avalanche123]

Yes us Bow guys get our own season. That whole area (other than the Nass area as you know) opens up for GOS Oct 201 to 26. You have a bow season Sept 1 to Sept 9.

If you are hunting 6-1 to 6-11 with a bow, sept 1 to sept 9, you are legal. I plan on doing it, Been doing it for the past 15 years.

[Sofa King]

this another example that not all enforcers of the laws are aware of the laws.
pretty sad when that's their job.

I assumed the regs that we get were just a rag they put out for us peons.
don't the co's have better, more-to-the-point, accurately detailed rules of the do's and dont's?

[Darksith]

My area is in the shaded area on f7. I only used 6-15 as a reference because it has the triangle. We're the bow only season for 6-1 to 6-11 dosnt have a triangle or retriction.

you are absolutely right, its open. I stand corrected

[f350ps]

Go kill a monster!! No icons means no restrictions, hard to believe a CO can't read the regs he's employed to enforce!! Good luck! K

[Sofa King]

Go kill a monster!! No icons means no restrictions, hard to believe a CO can't read the regs he's employed to enforce!! Good luck! K

I agree.
that co should be sent home with the rags and given a test when he shows up to work in the morning.
his superior, or his superior's superior should be rectifying this.

[Steeleco]

you are absolutely right, its open. I stand corrected

Agreed, had to read it again to get it. I too was wrong, never happend before LOL

[Jelvis]

Better not run the fsr's with that attitude and meet up with a real C.O. roadblock.
Officer: Hello are you out enjoying the hunting season like all the others?
You: No I'm driving up here to get on the Space Shuttle lol, how's that.
It's a younger blonde female Conservation Officer with six years experience.
You: an average guy with your fave huntin buddy, Luke, a local yocal.
Officer eh your a comedian by the sounds of that come back, and quick too eh?
You: Oh yah they call me quick slick lol, hey Luke? Dang rights buddy eh?
Officer: Do you have any firearms on your person, or in your vehicle fellas?
Luke: I bet you ask all the guys that eh hahahahahah eh buddy? Haaaayahhh.
Officer: Please turn your vehicle off, and step out of zeee kah. we half vayze.
Summary:
If you are stopped on a fsr during open hunting season by a CO
1. Slow down and gently stop your ride, put in gear.
2. Turn engine off
3. roll vindo down
4. say Hello Officer
5. what can I do for you?
6. listen hard and obey.

[reach]

What part of "Limited Entry Hunting only" is unclear?

The actual regulations here (http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/190_84_07) have this to say:


(9) Except as provided in the Limited Entry Hunting Regulation (B.C. Reg. 134/93), in those portions of M.U.s 6-3 and 6-11 described as Smithers - Moose in Schedule 2 of the Limited Entry Hunting Regulation, the open season for bull moose is October 20 to October 26.
No mention of bows. I personally would not want to try and fight that in court.

Then again, there's also no mention of 6-10, so if that's where your spot is, that omission (seems like an error to me) might give you a loophole you could fight in court.

[Jelvis]

As clear as mud? Now lol. Ask a CO in that region b4 doing it. imho

[Caveman]

What part of "Limited Entry Hunting only" is unclear?

The actual regulations here (http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/190_84_07) have this to say:
[/FONT][/COLOR]
No mention of bows. I personally would not want to try and fight that in court.

Then again, there's also no mention of 6-10, so if that's where your spot is, that omission (seems like an error to me) might give you a loophole you could fight in court.

I agree. Limited Entry only, would restrict you from hunting moose with a rifle or bow, where the MU's are shaded. If you are chasing deer you would be fine, or am I missing something?

[reach]

And just to clarify - the regulations synopsis is not the authority. That app you're looking at is not the authority. My app is not the authority. Only the regulations are the authority. Even the online version of the regulations that I linked is not the authority... the official version is hiding in a government office somewhere.

There are mistakes in the synopsis. It's put together based on the regulations, in an attempt to make them more clear. But it doesn't always work. In my opinion, the little triangle should have been on the left next to "Bow Only Season" in the table, since the maps referenced (F1, F2, F7, F23) apply to MUs 6-1, 6-2, 6-3, 6-10, 6-11, 6-15, 6-19, 6-20, and 6-30. Clearly it doesn't make sense referring to map F1, F7 or F23, as a footnote to only MUs 6-15 and 6-30.

[Darksith]

And just to clarify - the regulations synopsis is not the authority. That app you're looking at is not the authority. My app is not the authority. Only the regulations are the authority. Even the online version of the regulations that I linked is not the authority... the official version is hiding in a government office somewhere.

There are mistakes in the synopsis. It's put together based on the regulations, in an attempt to make them more clear. But it doesn't always work. In my opinion, the little triangle should have been on the left next to "Bow Only Season" in the table, since the maps referenced (F1, F2, F7, F23) apply to MUs 6-1, 6-2, 6-3, 6-10, 6-11, 6-15, 6-19, 6-20, and 6-30. Clearly it doesn't make sense referring to map F1, F7 or F23, as a footnote to only MUs 6-15 and 6-30.

except that for the bow only season, there is nothing directing you the the map F7, which means there are no restrictions in MU 6-1 to 6-11

[reach]

except that for the bow only season, there is nothing directing you the the map F7, which means there are no restrictions in MU 6-1 to 6-11
In my opinion that is an error in the synopsis. If you feel like testing that in court, fill your boots. They do say right on page 2:


The British Columbia Hunting and Trapping Regulations Synopsis is intended for general information purposes only. Where there is a discrepancy between this Synopsis and the Regulations, the Regulations are the final authority. Regulations are subject to change from time to time, and it is the responsibility of an individual to be informed of the current Regulations.

The issue of MU 6-10 is interesting to me though. Unless the online version of the regs is not current, it is NOT covered by the "LEH only" restriction so you would have a stronger court case.

Either way, if stopped by a CO, I think you would get a ticket and have to fight it.

[Darksith]

So it sounds like someone needs to get the regulations from victoria, not simply taking a CO's word for it.

[reach]

I'll send an email to the guy in MoE who is in charge of the regulations synopsis. He's been very helpful in the past when I ran into similar errors in the synopsis while developing my app. Stay tuned.

[reach]

I'll send an email to the guy in MoE who is in charge of the regulations synopsis. He's been very helpful in the past when I ran into similar errors in the synopsis while developing my app. Stay tuned.
Well the head guy is out of the office until the 4th, as is one of the two minions he mentioned in his out-of-office autoreply. We'll see if the other person is able to respond before the season opens. Government office... summer vacation... long weekend... not holding my breath :)

[russm86]

So just to be an antagonist... If the true "Regulations" are the big copy in Victoria that no one can get a copy of... How is one supposed to follow these rules and regulations when we can't actually see or read them for ourselves? For all we know they don't even exist? And the regulations in Victoria is the official regulations and has the final decision and yet the copies we are given by our government don't hold up against it... Sounds fishy to me... So once again we are given possibly inaccurate or poorly written copies or interpretations of the official regulations by the government and then charged for trying to follow these rather than the "official regulations" that we don't have any access to?

[reach]

So just to be an antagonist... If the true "Regulations" are the big copy in Victoria that no one can get a copy of... How is one supposed to follow these rules and regulations when we can't actually see or read them for ourselves? For all we know they don't even exist? And the regulations in Victoria is the official regulations and has the final decision and yet the copies we are given by our government don't hold up against it... Sounds fishy to me... So once again we are given possibly inaccurate or poorly written copies or interpretations of the official regulations by the government and then charged for trying to follow these rather than the "official regulations" that we don't have any access to?
Yes, totally agree. The Ministry puts those weasel words in the synopsis to try and cover themselves against mistakes. They try to put ALL the responsibility on the individual hunter.

In practice I think a judge would put some weight in what you said. If it's not realistically possible for Joe Hunter to access the rules, I think the court might go easy on him. COs might choose not to prosecute in a case of errors in the synopsis.

The dream world would be where the synopsis had no errors.... not there yet :)

[Jelvis]

Your attitude is very important when dealing with authority figures.
Try to be in control of your actions and body language should show no aggression.
Be a Canadian and be calm and cordial, it isn't easy to understand everything or know everyones thoughts and intent. What ever you feel is Canadian in your mind, then be that way. Friendly, firm and fair. Look in the persons eyes for a second at least, no more than two, and don't be shifty eyed. Obeying the regs and laws so we can avoid fees anfd fines. Fit in with the, "Norms" of our community and get along. If you feel guilty or have guilty knowledge, then fear will be felt by you.
If you think it's wrong or right, then you don't know, it should be one or the other, can't be both.
Example: Officer: Did you see the dead two point mule deer buck carcass by the road back there?
You, if you actually saw it say Yah I did at least sounds like the one
Why is that?
Officer: Ohh looked like not all the meat was taken.
You: I really couldn't tell you Officer.
Officer: Well ok then have a good day..(as the co checks with visuals to see in the box)
You: No problem anytime bye for now, good luck. ( your thankin yer lucky stars}

[Walking Buffalo]

At great risk to my life, a gift to the self acclaimed peasants of B.C. http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/search.do?language=en&searchTitle=British+Columbia&sortOrder=relevance&searchPage=eliisa%2FjurisdictionSearch.vm&jurisdiction=bc&text=hunting+regulations+&id=&startDate=&endDate=&legislation=legislation&caselaw=courts&boardTribunal=tribunals

[Darksith]

I still think if they didn't want bow hunters in 6-10, but would allow them to hunt all or portions of all other units between 6-1 to 6-11 they wouldn't of broadcast it like that. They would of said bow only 6-01 to 6-09 and 6-11

[f350ps]

No icon= wide open! I think you guys are trying to read more into it than there is. K

[Avalanche123]

I agree with f350ps.....you are reading too much into it.

[kilometers]

Thanks guys for the debate. And I got my first jelvis post. Haha

it is so clear to me now I'm aloud to hunt the shaded area in map f 7

map f 7 is only their to show you the shortened gos rifle season in those shaded areas. Outside of the shaded areas the season is longer with no leh application but in the same mu.

No icon no restriction. Map f 7 is a reference for the rifle hunters only indicating that shaded area dosnt have the same gos as the rest of those same mu

eg the rest of mu 6 -3 is open sept 10 for rifle but the portion of 6-3 is open by leh only for the same time period and the gos season is October.

[f350ps]

thanks guys for the debate. And i got my first jelvis post. Haha

it is so clear to me now i'm aloud to hunt the shaded area in map f 7

map f 7 is only their to show you the shortened gos rifle season in those shaded areas. Outside of the shaded areas the season is longer with no leh application but in the same mu.

No icon no restriction. Map f 7 is a reference for the rifle hunters only indicating that shaded area dosnt have the same gos as the rest of those same mu

eg the rest of mu 6 -3 is open right now for rifle but the portion of 6-3 is open by leh right now and the gos season is october.

bingo!!!! :) k

[Darksith]

eg the rest of mu 6 -3 is open right now for rifle but the portion of 6-3 is open by leh right now and the gos season is October.

6-3 is NOT open for rifle right now fyi.

6-3, 6-10, 6-11 are only open for bow for 9 days...

[davet]

No icon= wide open! I think you guys are trying to read more into it than there is. K


I agree. No icons. go for it. And Post a picture when you get a big one.

[davet]

6-1 to 6-11 open to bow hunters from sept 1- sept 9

[kilometers]

6-3 is NOT open for rifle right now fyi.

6-3, 6-10, 6-11 are only open for bow for 9 days...

Yah tried to edit it opens for bow sept 1 then rifle sept 10

[reach]

Don't say I didn't warn you.

I did get a response from MoE saying they would take a look and get back to me later today. So we'll see what they say.

[kilometers]

Don't say I didn't warn you.

I did get a response from MoE saying they would take a look and get back to me later today. So we'll see what they say.

thanks let me no.

It is clear as day to me now andniwill fight it in court. Map f7 only apples to rifle hunters indicating in the shaded portion the gos isn't as long as the rest of the mu
The bow only season has no restrictions. Can have 30 points 4 brow tines or any visible boney antler

[f350ps]

thanks let me no.

It is clear as day to me now andniwill fight it in court. Map f7 only apples to rifle hunters indicating in the shaded portion the gos isn't as long as the rest of the mu
The bow only season has no restrictions. Can have 30 points 4 brow tines or any visible boney antler
You are correct, no clarification required! Not a chance in the world you could be charged with anything, the regs are pretty clear in my eyes and I think most others. K

[reach]

You are correct, no clarification required! Not a chance in the world you could be charged with anything, the regs are pretty clear in my eyes and I think most others. K
Except for the CO that they specifically asked :D

The lady that replied to me said she was in meetings and couldn't get back to me, so she forwarded it to the Smithers staff... no response from them. So no official word from MoE until next week.

[Jelvis]

Makes sense go to the regional office where they have the main concern in management ideas fot their area. The region this is about with unclear regulations and the locals should have the clearest interpretation.
Jelly Bean Bouncer

[f350ps]

Except for the CO that they specifically asked :D

The lady that replied to me said she was in meetings and couldn't get back to me, so she forwarded it to the Smithers staff... no response from them. So no official word from MoE until next week.
Wow, you obviously don't get it, the official word is spelled out QUITE clearly in the regs. You can ask any gov't official any question at any time about anything and you'll get the same answer, we'll look in to it and get back to ya....this one is so self explanatory it's scary!! That said, get back to us please! K

[BushPig]

Although there is no triangle on 6-1 to 6-11 it does clearly state, "parts of several MU have special regulations and are closed to moose hunting or are open by LEH authorization only, see maps basically". The areas you mentioned that you are planning on hunting is an LEH area only except the rifle season in October for those 6 days or so. I know there is no triangle, but I wouldn't want to risk the fines/gear/court/ the rest of your hunting season and the rest of the hassle just to get 8 days to hunt a moose with a bow after work. Courts not cheap.

[Jelvis]

BushPig coming out of the corner throwing for the fences, dropping the gloves and weighing in, I dig that post BP. Another great write up to add to this mounstrous thread that could change the way the reg's are written in the BC Trapping and Hunting Synopsis. Not the official regs but pritty dang close. Not perfect like a lot of the human race but close enuff to perfect for meh heeeeeeee.
If it comes down to one area that needs to be clarified than so be it, this is a part of the knowing process.
Jel .. BC Capers .. Reg changers .. I can give yah a definate maybe on dat one.

[alpinetreker]

go hunt:-D

[f350ps]

go hunt:-D
Hahaha, lets go!! While these guys are analyzing and disectting the regs and waiting for call backs we can go put some arrows in a couple nice bulls! K

[Kitimat Killer]

I was out bow hunting today in kitimat mu 6-11 and have been doing it the past 4 years killed my first bull last year during the Oct 1st season, I'm heading back out tomorrow morning again.


KK

[kilometers]

Although there is no triangle on 6-1 to 6-11 it does clearly state, "parts of several MU have special regulations and are closed to moose hunting or are open by LEH authorization only, see maps basically". The areas you mentioned that you are planning on hunting is an LEH area only except the rifle season in October for those 6 days or so. I know there is no triangle, but I wouldn't want to risk the fines/gear/court/ the rest of your hunting season and the rest of the hassle just to get 8 days to hunt a moose with a bow after work. Courts not cheap.

That would be like doin 50 km in a 100 km hour zone just to be safe!!!

You said it its in black and white Their Is no triangle for the bow Guys. Don't even have to look at that map.

[257stew]

I hunt the shaded area a lot. I have had LEH for that area and the last time was the first year with the bow seasons so did not have the honey hole all to myself which was especially annoying Oct 1st -8th bow hunters walking all over the place ..... seems every rifle hunter in town purchased a cross bow so the are now bow hunters and a whole gaggle of them were out there.
I know a few hunters that would now be poachers if they were not allowed to bowhunt in the shaded area.

[reach]

OK I got a good answer back from Victoria. I'm happy to report that I was wrong, and the CO you asked was wrong. The entire shaded area on map F7 IS open for bow hunting during the bow seasons, and it IS open for rifle during the rifle GOS (Oct 20-26).

Basically that whole Map F7 is a red herring, particularly the word "only". According to the regs people, it doesn't restrict the bow seasons, and it doesn't restrict the GOS rifle season. All it does is add the Sept 10 - Nov 15 GOS in those portions of 6-3 and 6-11 outside the shaded area.

That season was not listed in the main season table, so it didn't make it into Hunt Buddy :( Stay tuned for yet another app update. I see there's another similar moose season in 6-2 (Tweedsmuir Park) not listed in the main table that's also missing from the app.

Note that even though there's no triangle next to "6-1 to 6-11", I think map F1 (Tweedsmuir no hunting area) does apply to the bow seasons... waiting for further clarification on that question.

[kilometers]

OK I got a good answer back from Victoria. I'm happy to report that I was wrong, and the CO you asked was wrong. The entire shaded area on map F7 IS open for bow hunting during the bow seasons, and it IS open for rifle during the rifle GOS (Oct 20-26).

Basically that whole Map F7 is a red herring, particularly the word "only". According to the regs people, it doesn't restrict the bow seasons, and it doesn't restrict the GOS rifle season. All it does is add the Sept 10 - Nov 15 GOS in those portions of 6-3 and 6-11 outside the shaded area.

That season was not listed in the main season table, so it didn't make it into Hunt Buddy :( Stay tuned for yet another app update. I see there's another similar moose season in 6-2 (Tweedsmuir Park) not listed in the main table that's also missing from the app.

Note that even though there's no triangle next to "6-1 to 6-11", I think map F1 (Tweedsmuir no hunting area) does apply to the bow seasons... waiting for further clarification on that question.

Thanks reach. HBCers Are amazing!!!!

Just goes to show you how regs can be read differently and I believe it's a good example of a hard to understand or misinterpreted section.

I ended up with the week off and me and my dad went out in the trailer camping had some close calls with a rutting bull and a cow and calf. Couldn't get the bull to come outta the thick and think he ended up jumping the river on us
Was woke up at 130 am by a rutting bull behind camp.
Way too hot out nothin movin during the day. Basically had an hour in the morning and an hour at night to hunt and see some movement
what an experience. Might go out Sunday again and then hit up the oct 1- 9 bow only season.
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