Moose shared hunt drama

[two-feet]

So me a 3 others have drawn a region 6 leh from sept 10 through to november. I have initiated and tried to organize the whole thing but have not had much luck getting concrete dates from several of the guys for when they can hunt. I sent out a group email saying it is basically first come first serve, if two moose hit the ground before the other guy or guys have a go it might be in a tough titty situation. I also wrote that meat shall be divided equally between the guys in the camp with us at the time with meat being given to other group members at the discretion of the successful hunters.
One of the hunters does not think this is fair as he is the farthest away and potentially will have less hunting oppertunities. He would also like to be cut in on some meat if he is not there for the kill (i personally will have no prob giving him some from my portion)
What do you all think?

[ravensfoot]

Share in the work and you share in the proceeds. Plain and simple.

[adriaticum]

All is fair in love and hunt.
Everything is right if agreed to ahead of time. ;)

[doubled]

Why didn't you talk this over before you guys put in for this hunt? Would have solved this dilemma before it happened.

[reach]

I think next time you should be more careful deciding who you'll be applying with. It's a lot better if you work this stuff out ahead of time to make sure everyone is on the same page.

Sounds like someone will be unhappy no matter what, so you just have to decide who you can afford to piss off.

[Sofa King]

you guys should have really had this all worked out and agreed to prior to entering.
the guy that can't get there often does have a point, he too should be included in receiving a portion of meat regardless.
but I don't know why someone would have joined the group if they knew full well that they'd not be able to get out there with you's.
if they were putting the draw in, they should have had time reserved for hunting that area then.
I also understand the "tough-titty" thinking, if they didn't commit to the hunt, then that's their problem.

[835]

Gotta be in camp.. helping, unless the guy at home pays for his share of the trip just like if he was there.
I hunt with friends, this doesnt happen. But if i take the time off and pay my trip share and put in the work..... and the guy at home does nothing but say,, "OOps sorry, i cant go"
If he pays his trip share, that would bring my cost down and would make me ok with sharing with a guy who couldnt make it.

[Darksith]

sounds like I wouldn't want to do a shared hunt with you guys is what it sounds like. It takes 3 or 4 to tango in a 2 moose shared hunt. You are a team, if you can't all hunt at the same time or arrive at camp at the same time you should all consider it was the other guys name that got drawn that made you all winners. I understand if someone can't make it, but to say you snooze you lose isn't much of a team attitude. Sounds like all for one and go f*#@ yourself otherwise.

In our group, we plan the hunt around the group, not the individual. Its more about getting together than it is being successful. Don't get me wrong, we want things to go bang flop, but we have the hunt planned essentially before we even know if we are winners or not. There is the "right" time to be hunting for certain species in certain areas, and the group should be aware of this time, and should of had it booked already. If someone can't make it period thats one thing, but to say if your late and we shoot both moose you get nothing is silly. Sounds like you are a local, and two or more are from outta town. 2 moose for 4 people is probably more than enough meat to go around. If they guy ends up in camp and you already have 2 down then he can help in other ways than simply packing it out. Simply amazing how some people are so selfish and greedy that they aren't willing to share. When I knock down a moose, it gets spread around to lots of people, maybe its just me but I enjoy sharing more than hoarding.

[Ron.C]

Why didn't you talk this over before you guys put in for this hunt? Would have solved this dilemma before it happened.

x2


.........

[Abashai]

Never really run into this before but I would think if you can't make the trip and share in the work then you shouldn't be entitled to the rewards. Maybe a compromise could be reached as previously mentioned if he would chip in for trip expenses.
Also possibly a different situation because its a long ways for us so we only ever plan one trip...

[835]

Darksith,
i spend around 700-900$ to get that meat home. Im not going to just give it to a guy who paid nothing.... maybe my friends are different but they understand that. You can do what you want.

[LYKTOHUNT]

One thing that has not been mentioned is the fact that on a shared hunt with 4 people entered ,everyone is drawn individually and if only one of you is actually drawn then the whole group is successful for up to two tags and it is possible that the individual that may not be able to get hunting as often or maybe not at all is responsible for the rest of the members getting drawn, so it is a bit of a tangled web, In the past when some members have not been able to make it we have set aside maybe not an equal share but we make sure they at least get some.
One thing is none of us has to travel far, so there is not a great deal of travelling cost to consider

[adriaticum]

I tend to agree with the Sith lord, if the guy is late a day or so for a week/two week hunt, he is considered a part of the group.
There are other ways he can contribute to the group.
Pulling a trigger is easy.
But again, it's all good if everyone agrees to it ahead of time.

[two-feet]

Yup, already thinking of how things will be done different next year but i still have this year to work with. I set up this hunt with a new hunter(the guy from out of town) and a guy new to the area (trying to be neihborly) and another buddy who is also a serious hunter. We all are very keen but hey, life is busy. One guy got laid off, one guy bought a new business and one guy is doing a masters program. So i am trying to come to a fair solution when scheduling is an issue. Greed and selfishness are not the factors here, i just dont feel the hunt can be held hostage by a non-commital hunter.
We are a young group of guys and cant say "well ive been hunting with my group for 30 years and we do it this way". I am trying to set up my group and am sure others have had a learning curve doing the same

[r106]

tough one. I'm in the mindset that if you put in the work AND $$ then you should get a share. If there is person that is just a lazy ass then be nice give a share and don't go in on a group hunt with him again.


Maybe split into to 2 groups of 2. One groups goes up and shares one moose and leave the other group to get one moose. One moose between 2 guys is plenty


I have a similar issue with the group I apply with. One of my friends has a tough time getting time off to hunt, with work and family obligations. So we put in for areas we can make a few weekend trips. The idea is to spend time with friends hunting not a race to put animals on the ground, at least to me it is.

[The Hermit]

So for me it would be more about being part of the shared hunt knowing that I'll be on reduced odds for the next three years! I'd be going regardless...

[835]

Some times shit happens and it sucks, finding a good bunch of guys to hunt with solves all the trouble..... And sometimes that means Trimming the "guy holding the trip hostage" No good hunting buddy will do that. Maybe you just struggle through this year and dont ask that guy back.

[geoskier]

My group is splitting the meat between everyone in camp, whether they are part of the hunt or not.

If anyone was unable to make the hunt, we would likely give them meat.... just not 1/2 a moose. If they really wanted that much meat, I am sure we could organize something by them throwing us some gas or something along those lines.

I think the only meat that I wouldn't be quick to share is goat or sheep. I would be happy to cook it for friends and family... and all my friends love goat stew... but that kind of hunting goes a little beyond swamp donk's.

[f350ps]

Share in the work and you share in the proceeds. Plain and simple.
My sentiments exactly! Moose trips aren't cheap and there's a ton of hardwork involved as most will agree. I would try and find a date that works and if all but one guy can't make it too bad so sad! We've always done 3 guys on a shared hunt and a couple times one guy couldn't make it and he never expect a share. With that said we always go within the same two weeks so there's one less decision to make. Good luck. K

[kilometers]

What part of region 6 ? I might due the group hunt next year. Seems like better odds then a single leh. know lots of people with group hunts in region 6 this year an dint no anybody who got a leh single

[Darksith]

Darksith,
i spend around 700-900$ to get that meat home. Im not going to just give it to a guy who paid nothing.... maybe my friends are different but they understand that. You can do what you want.

Maybe I read his post wrong, but it sounds like someone is gonna be late, not a complete no show...so the guy that comes in late would help get the meat home, butcher etc etc...thats what I meant. If you enter and can't make the hunt period, then I understand someone not sharing, I still would. How do you spend that kinda $ to get the "meat home"...isn't that the same as "getting home yourself"? Or is the meat getting shipped home after it gets butchered? If there are shipping costs, hell yeah...toss in and your welcome to your share. Maybe I just don't understand how some people do it, as I get my meat butchered for free (well traded for my labour, but I don't ask my family to toss me money for their share of my labour) and we always hunt together, never a late comer, but some no shows from time to time. It all gets spread around though, but I hunt with family in shared hunts always.

Either way sounds like the group isn't much of a group. Sounds like its 4 guys that tossed their names together for some reason, now some are getting screwed outta the chance to hunt the LEH they won...

[BearStump]

have a beer night get together at your place. try to figure it out openly and without agenda. If that fails, and there is still issues, resort to physical violence. get your old lady to record the scraps. It'll create memories for years to come and form bonds that will last a lifetime.

[Darksith]

Yup, already thinking of how things will be done different next year but i still have this year to work with. I set up this hunt with a new hunter(the guy from out of town) and a guy new to the area (trying to be neihborly) and another buddy who is also a serious hunter. We all are very keen but hey, life is busy. One guy got laid off, one guy bought a new business and one guy is doing a masters program. So i am trying to come to a fair solution when scheduling is an issue. Greed and selfishness are not the factors here, i just dont feel the hunt can be held hostage by a non-commital hunter.
We are a young group of guys and cant say "well ive been hunting with my group for 30 years and we do it this way". I am trying to set up my group and am sure others have had a learning curve doing the same

So what is their status? Some can make it at a certain time, others can make it later on? Why not break the group up into 2 mini groups then? Yourself and the other serious hunter get 1 tag, the other 2 get the other tag. If the new to the area guy and the new out of town hunter can't make the hunt at all then yourself and the other serious hunter head out and bang flop the 2nd moose...or forget the outta town guy if he can't make it as far as pulling the trigger, but if he can get there he gets some meat to take home. It doesn't sound like there are big shipping costs involved here, just problems getting everyone together at once for the hunt. The 2 locals are the key to being successful, and I would be trying my hardest to get someone who hasn't shot a moose behind the trigger this year. Thats what its all about IMO, I have had a full freezer for years now, haven't shot anything since an immature 4 years ago now I think though...I would rather let someone else shoot it and share in their joy than do it myself

Its not rocket science here, Im sure you boys can come to an agreement that makes everyone happy. Sounds like you used the new hunter to add a fourth and increase your chances, but now you are trying to cut him out of the meat because he can't make the hunt on time and if hes late hes screwed. If its just a matter of late then you should be fair to him (especially since hes the only non local) and give him the newbie a chance to be involved in the harvest of at least 1 moose. New hunters are so important to our community, I would hate to see his desire to hunt snuffed because he got screwed out of a chance to be a part of a hunt that he won. Ask yourself honestly though...why did you include the out of town guy in your group? If the answer is to increase your odds, then wouldn't you feel guilty telling him you snooze you loose if he can make it at some point while the rest of you are locals? Seems a bit dirty to me...

[Mishka]

have a beer night get together at your place. try to figure it out openly and without agenda. If that fails, and there is still issues, resort to physical violence. get your old lady to record the scraps. It'll create memories for years to come and form bonds that will last a lifetime.

Thanks, made me laugh.

[islander7mm]

sounds like I wouldn't want to do a shared hunt with you guys is what it sounds like. It takes 3 or 4 to tango in a 2 moose shared hunt. You are a team, if you can't all hunt at the same time or arrive at camp at the same time you should all consider it was the other guys name that got drawn that made you all winners. I understand if someone can't make it, but to say you snooze you lose isn't much of a team attitude. Sounds like all for one and go f*#@ yourself otherwise.

In our group, we plan the hunt around the group, not the individual. Its more about getting together than it is being successful. Don't get me wrong, we want things to go bang flop, but we have the hunt planned essentially before we even know if we are winners or not. There is the "right" time to be hunting for certain species in certain areas, and the group should be aware of this time, and should of had it booked already. If someone can't make it period thats one thing, but to say if your late and we shoot both moose you get nothing is silly. Sounds like you are a local, and two or more are from outta town. 2 moose for 4 people is probably more than enough meat to go around. If they guy ends up in camp and you already have 2 down then he can help in other ways than simply packing it out. Simply amazing how some people are so selfish and greedy that they aren't willing to share. When I knock down a moose, it gets spread around to lots of people, maybe its just me but I enjoy sharing more than hoarding.

X2
You won the draw as a team so you finish as a team. I'd assume you'd split the butchering bill. You've still got time to get it figured out.

[Geo.338]

sometimes things come up . I have seen just about every scenario , from a guy who's wife is going to give birth to work to you name it . Sometimes a person needs to be able to exit with honor and step down instead of just expecting that he will pick up his share of meat .

You said you are a young group so you guys will get this figured out . I hunt with a group of three . One guy had to bail halfway to the hunting grounds due to illness . He had paid equally . We got two bulls he got 1\3rd share . No problem .

We had 1 guy bail 3 weeks before a trip . It was his turn to take his truck . He has not been on another hunt .

20 years from now , see what your group looks like , it might be the same 4 guys , then you will know what a team is .

[The Silent Stalker]

3 Years ago, we did 2 groups of two, with one moose tag for each pair. We rented a cabin on the lake and a few days before my partner on the tag had to bail out. He had already paid for his share of the cabin, he threw a little for gas in my truck and was bummed he couldn't go. We filled both tags on the trip and left the meat in town at a game processor. One week later he drove all the way out to where the meat was and picked it up and brought it home. We all pitched in for his gas, he did it in 1 day, 14hrs return, back of truck loaded with moose! We split it all evenly between the 4 of us. it was the arrangement made as we planned the trip when filling out the LEH. Make it clear to all so no one can bitch to much.

[solo]

Good luck sorting out your hunt. Hope you guys can have fun hunting, and not just focus on getting meat in the freezer. Sept 10 is coming up fast!

[two-feet]

Ha, no DS, i did not get my friend to put in on the draw to better my odds with thoughts of elbowing him out later. Nice of you to assume that.
This will certainly be resolved amicably between our group. We are civilized gents and as in all things compromise will win the day.
i think i will push the members tonight to piss or get off the pot, if they can give me a commitement to hunting this leh at any date we will make it work, but if there is no solid guarentee of hunting this fall then the rest of us cannot be held back by this.
As for the meat i still feel you need to be in camp to be entitled to a share but this does not mean there cannot be a gift of meat afterwards
will consult with the troops and post the results
thanks for all the opinions so far they have been informative

[dana]

You guys are making the assumption you will see success. This is hunting not grocery shopping. Many a trip is made with little to no success. If one guy can't make the dates as the other guys, he could possibly do a solo hunt later and be the one with success.

[Sofa King]

Good luck sorting out your hunt. Hope you guys can have fun hunting , and not just focus on getting meat in the freezer. Sept 10 is coming up fast!

and that's the most important part of all.

[Darksith]

Ha, no DS, i did not get my friend to put in on the draw to better my odds with thoughts of elbowing him out later. Nice of you to assume that.

thats not what I said...you brought him in to have 4 chances at the draw not 3, is my assumption. I never assumed u were planning on elbowing him out. Im not saying you are elbowing him out now, but are you making every attempt to include him is the question? So the new guy isn't planning on going at all? If he has no plans to go he has no right to the meat. The circumstances of your situation are still a bit foggy for me anyway. We have been on a few shared hunts where 1 person didnt go. He never expected any meat, and he never had plans to go, but had no problem letting us use his # to increase our odds. Either way good luck, do whats right in your heart and you will have no regrets. Thats what life is all about...hunting is an adventure with friends, harvest is just icing on the cake.

[mike 458]

I feel the same as Darksith..We took 3 moose a few years ago and it was shared with all and more. Also it's about getting away with good friends in camp. Not always the kill. If you need the meat to get you through...It's cheaper to buy a beef !

[Gunner]

My sentiments exactly! Moose trips aren't cheap and there's a ton of hardwork involved as most will agree. I would try and find a date that works and if all but one guy can't make it too bad so sad! We've always done 3 guys on a shared hunt and a couple times one guy couldn't make it and he never expect a share. With that said we always go within the same two weeks so there's one less decision to make. Good luck. KDoes this mean that you're going to want more than 10lbs. of ground and the hooves to back pack me around my draw area?I'm devestated!:mrgreen: Gunner

[604redneck]

I would never put in for a draw with guys i didnt know really well or didnt live close to me or the hunting spot. IMO if u agree to be part of a group hunt u agree to be part of a "group hunt" Therefore u share in every part of the hunt! However if u guys are throwing out dates and this guy just keeps saying no then go as 3 and put 2 bulls on the ground then send him a care package including a few steaks some ground a roast or 2 and a box of kleenex to wipe his tears!

[Gateholio]

Some of you guys really complicate stuff....Just tell your friends 'I'm available to hunt these days, who is coming?" and "You guys feel free to hunt without me if I can't make it during your available time, too"

Just make sure that if a moose gets killed, EVERYONE knows so, we dont' shoot too many moose!

Simple, done.

[604redneck]

Some of you guys really complicate stuff....Just tell your friends 'I'm available to hunt these days, who is coming?" and "You guys feel free to hunt without me if I can't make it during your available time, too"

Just make sure that if a moose gets killed, EVERYONE knows so, we dont' shoot too many moose!

Simple, done.
more or less what i was getting at, i guess i said it in a more difficult way

[curt]

Why didn't you talk this over before you guys put in for this hunt? Would have solved this dilemma before it happened.

exactly all the ground rules should be in place and agreed upon long before the draws go in in fact our group we all book the same time and hunt together thats kind of the idea if your not sure you can go or get the time then I say wtf are you doing putting in with the group!?

[allan]

I hunt for a break from the reg grind of life. Dont care if I'm successful or not. You need to have that attitude or just stay home and watch tv.
My partner left 48 hrs before I could leave one year. He was back at my place at two am with a moose in the back of his truck that I helped skin 1/4 and hang in my cooler before I had even left!
We both tried to give more to each other then the other guy even wanted.
I went hunting later that month for something else and had no problems with it.
You guys need to get an attitude adjustment of give 60% take 40%.
Hunting is much more fun that way.

[BiG Boar]

So basically, one guy can only hunt late, and you want to hunt early, before he has a chance to get up there? And not everyone can agree on dates that will work for everyone.

So what you're saying is that one guy is saying that he can't maybe hunt during september and the first half of october, but you live near the spot so you want to hunt earlier in the draw? Now what if you could only hunt the last week of September, but then he changed his mind and said he was free to go September 1? Would you mind if 2 of them went without you? What if they got both moose? IMO, I think it was stupid of him to put in on a shared hunt with you in your back yard. Obviously you can hunt there lots, and he can't. Can anyone agree on any dates? Maybe do a random split of your group, and have 2 people fight over one draw and 2 over the other. It would save a lot of confusion.

Obviously don't do this again. I put in with people who I know can take off the moose rut, no questions asked.

[Moe.JKU]

I think Big Boar has it right. If it were switch situations how would you feel. It seems like a mistake was made when putting in for the draws as well, and you will learn something from this. I would suggest making sure the dates are set next time before putting in for the draw next year. If they bail on the date hunt date that is planned no meat. But if there was no set dates then i would give him some meat if he cannot make the trip, just out of generosity, to me its not all about the meat though i would be more disappointing on missing the camp.

[835]

Maybe I read his post wrong, but it sounds like someone is gonna be late, not a complete no show...so the guy that comes in late would help get the meat home, butcher etc etc...thats what I meant. If you enter and can't make the hunt period, then I understand someone not sharing, I still would. How do you spend that kinda $ to get the "meat home"...isn't that the same as "getting home yourself"? Or is the meat getting shipped home after it gets butchered? If there are shipping costs, hell yeah...toss in and your welcome to your share. Maybe I just don't understand how some people do it, as I get my meat butchered for free (well traded for my labour, but I don't ask my family to toss me money for their share of my labour) and we always hunt together, never a late comer, but some no shows from time to time. It all gets spread around though, but I hunt with family in shared hunts always.

Either way sounds like the group isn't much of a group. Sounds like its 4 guys that tossed their names together for some reason, now some are getting screwed outta the chance to hunt the LEH they won...

Dark,
You may be right...
late show gets full share, even if he isnt there for the kill... they made an effort to be there and paid to get there.


Other thing i saw...
Guys who have to go futhere then others... in my group we got them guys.... They pay to get to a meeting point we have pre determined then travel togeather... That point on is where equal share comes in.

[Paulyman]

in some areas it's hard enough to get 1 moose hanging in camp, 2 can be a real challenge,bonding/relaxing experience or not any friend that would discourage pulling the trigger on a second moose is selfish.

[bassplayer]

This is one of the reasons i hunt by myself. If things get complicated then i am the only one to blame. I never rely on anyone.

[Gateholio]

Who cares where the various people live? Everyone knew thier own residence prior to entering the draw. Everyone should just hunt when they are able to and nobody should prevent others from hunting just because they can't make it.

If 2 moose hit the ground the first day, that's just the way it worked out. There are no guarantees with hunting. Anybody not present for the hunt that wants some meat should show up for cutting and wrapping, grinding and sausage making, if that is agreeable to all involved.


I give meat to people who don't even hunt, so giving meat to a buddy that couldn't make it but helped butcher is a non issue for me.


Again, this doesn't have to be complicated.

[Paulyman]

[Gatehouse's take on the situation is most practical one ive heard yet.QUOTE=Gatehouse;1369372]Who cares where the various people live? Everyone knew thier own residence prior to entering the draw. Everyone should just hunt when they are able to and nobody should prevent others from hunting just because they can't make it.

If 2 moose hit the ground the first day, that's just the way it worked out. There are no guarantees with hunting. Anybody not present for the hunt that wants some meat should show up for cutting and wrapping, grinding and sausage making, if that is agreeable to all involved.


I give meat to people who don't even hunt, so giving meat to a buddy that couldn't make it but helped butcher is a non issue for me.


Again, this doesn't have to be complicated.[/QUOTE]

[Darksith]

Other thing i saw...
Guys who have to go futhere then others... in my group we got them guys.... They pay to get to a meeting point we have pre determined then travel togeather... That point on is where equal share comes in.
Thats what we do when we go on long trips. Meet at a spot, then all costs go on 1 CC and we split it equally once the hunt is over.


Who cares where the various people live? Everyone knew thier own residence prior to entering the draw. Everyone should just hunt when they are able to and nobody should prevent others from hunting just because they can't make it.
If 2 moose hit the ground the first day, that's just the way it worked out. There are no guarantees with hunting. Anybody not present for the hunt that wants some meat should show up for cutting and wrapping, grinding and sausage making, if that is agreeable to all involved.
I give meat to people who don't even hunt, so giving meat to a buddy that couldn't make it but helped butcher is a non issue for me.
Again, this doesn't have to be complicated.

I don't think many people are saying don't drop the moose at the opportunity. But if you show up you should get some meat, late or not, there are always ways to split the work and cost rather than just who pulls the animal out of the bush, ditch, middle of the road...some successful hunts involve more work at the start, others have the majority of the work load after its in the truck or at camp...Lots of options, to me it doesn't even sound like there is a hunting camp involved in this situation...

Each situation for everyone is gonna be a bit different. In the end your actions are gonna end up in the karma court, and you always know whether your guilty or not, don't make a choice that makes you guilty

[Paulyman]

Late or not meat should be split up equally of course.

[Ltbullken]

If you are in camp and share in the costs and work, you should share in the division of meat. If you want to give some of your share, kudos... The one point in favour of the excluded hunter is that maybe it was his/her card that was drawn that gave all the hunt? And as you are not sure, maybe the excluded hunter should receive some meat. Or as mentioned above, chip for expenses and make it more fair for those who attend the hunt. But, it's unfortunate if one can't make it because of your circumstances, but maybe one should've thought about that before agreeing to be a part of the group hunt. I lean towards 'share the work/costs-share the meat' principle.

And for sure, have an agreement before the LEH submission. If someone does not like the conditions, they can apply with someone else maybe?

[ncurrie]

wow, this whole situation is all so complicated. I am sure you guys will make the right and fair decision that works for the whole party. Let us know how successful you guys are!

[steel_ram]

There's always a good slap fight to settle things.

[two-feet]

So here it is- after talking with him the fellow from out of town still can not commit to a date, or even if he is coming at all. We discussed, and he understands that the rest of us cannot hold back on hunting based on a possible no-show. I am hopeful that things work out for him and we can get him his first moose.
The rest of us have an open ticket to hunt whenever we can but of course all possible effort will be made to go out together.
There are no hard feelings. If any single person were to miss out on a kill any one of us would be disappointed but that is life. Good luck to all is the common agreement.
Of course it is all pie in the sky until we slay a moose.
Next year all arrangements will be made prior, a good lesson for us all.

[Gateholio]

See, not that complicated!