Texas heart shot

[BIGHUNTERFISH]

If you guys were hunting for a trophy muledeer buck,and jumped the biggest mulie buck you have ever seen and had a clear shot but only at his ass before he hit the timber would you take the shot?Lets say it was a very short distance maybe 40 yards and you knew you would make the hit?I am just curious what you guys would do.

[bochunk2000]

I wouldn't I would try to wait for a better shot. If it never came so be it the deer won...today.

[dana]

Have let many a monster walk away that has presented me with that shot opportunity. Heck, the biggest NT I've ever seen, 240+, gave me that view as he dived into a rhodo jungle.

[BIGHUNTERFISH]

Dana,How many guides in B.C would be yelling to their client ''shoot''?:lol:

[Gateholio]

The Texas heart shot is always controversial. At the least, it is rahter impolite.

However, if youare using a cartridge/bullet combo that can do the job, and that is the only shot presented, it is very doable with minimum meat loss.

It is somewhat messy to field dress, though.8-)

[stanway]

would you take the shot?

Nope. I know some guys would, but I don't agree with that shot. I believe that you owe it to the deer to make every attempt to harvest it cleanly and quickly. There are too many chances to wound the animal with the "texas heart shot".

:)

[Bow Walker]

That's an exit - not an entrance!!

[Mattimoose]

I would take that shot with my .338.
My Father shot a running deer like that in the 60's, and he fired 6 rounds before it fell. 5 of the 6 connected, but he was young and never let it fall because he didn't think he hit-it. The last one split the spine. Iam confident a 250-grain bullet from a .338 would kill-it dead in that manner handily.

[longhairmtnman]

Easy for me to say no, sitting here at the computer... but having only 1 deer to my credit, what I would do in the field may be different. In the past, I have opted not to take a shot, but never have been presented with this scenario. So I guess my answer is, I don't know!

[brotherjack]

Not me - but then, I'm not a trophy hunter for the most part.

I would think though - that if you were a trophy hunter, you should have no problem taking that shot and messing up a bit of meat. At close range with a big gun - our stated scenario - it would most surely put the animal down in a hurry (especially if you aim at the base of the tail and thus smack him in the spine - a shot of no more difficulty than any other spine shot).

[todbartell]

using a bullet capable of such penetration needed., like a Barnes X, you'll be able to rake the body lengthwise with your shot and should reach the vitals. Ive shot a big mulie full frontal shot and the X bullet exited its ass, so its basically the same thing but reversed. Ive shot black bears with the texas ringer and the bullet exited the chest, 7mm 175 gr X

if it was a hawg, Id be shooting

[ianwuzhere]

it would be tough not to take the shot. but i think i would wait and try to stalk the monster down for a better shot. This past season i had a similar chance- big buck but not huge and thought for sure id track him down or see him later, but never did. GRRRRR

[Fisher-Dude]

No. I don't care how big your gun is. It's a bad shot.

[chevy]

i would take the shot and i have taken the shot twice dropped the deer in it's tracks, so yeah i would for sure many guys wouldn't but that's them this is me

[Gateholio]

If you use a good bullet, liek a TSX or similar, and a cartridge of .308 power or similar (or more) there is no need to pass on texas shots. The *will penetrate through to the vitals without much issue.

The gear is there, it's up to you if ouwant to use it in this application.8)

[hutch]

havent had to take the shot yet but is it much different than taking the shot while the deer is standing straight on towards you? I think if it was walking away i would try for the back of the head at 60 yards

[LeverActionJunkie]

<<<<<<Nope>>>>

[StoneChaser]

With any of my rifles and X bullets.....In a heartbeat!

The Texas heart shot works.... seen it done on a 2 bull moose (7 Rem Mag w/162 Interlock and 280 AI 140gr TSX), a whitetail buck (35 Whelen 225gr TSX) numerous coyotes (22-250 50gr Vmax) and a large wolf this fall (280AI 140gr TSX).

Not one critter took even a half step after the shot.... and VERY little meat damage!

Give me a capable cartridge/bullet combo, and I'll take the shot time and time again.... and continue to fill the freezer!

I'm betting 99 % of the guys that answered NO would likely rather take a head/neck shot!

StoneChaser

[Mattimoose]

I'm betting 99 % of the guys that answered NO would likely rather take a head/neck shot!

StoneChaser[/quote]

My partner tried that on a calf moose this fall and ended-up with a pile of hair, no blood and a piece of birchbark with a .30 caliber hole in it! He skinned the hump because he didn't wenna waste meat and there was no meat to waste because the animal was gone! I was 5 minutes away with the truck and the knives, who cares about coring it like an apple. he'll never do that again.

[Gateholio]

For the people that say *NO*, I'd like to undersand thier reasoing?

is it simply because it is impolite? Fear that th bulet will not do it's job on the vitals? Concerned abnout meat damage?

All opinions are interestign...

[Silent Wolf]

I would take the shot, only because I know where my gun shoots and I go out to the range and shoot.

If you are one of these hunters that only puts one round a year through his gun then "NO" dont shoot.

The more you shoot your gun the better you will be to when something like this happens.

SW

[Byson]

I shot my last spring bear texas heart style It went down right away

[Shop Lord]

I've shot a deer and a wolf with the t.h.s. They both dropped on the spot. 7mm with 160 X's. Don't think I'd try it on a grizz though!

[srupp]

why not Rob ??? when he starts running hes already headed the other way??/lol :roll:

Steven

[Walksalot]

One of the biggest, if not the biggest mule deer buck I have seen broke cover and ran straight away at less than 50 yds. I passed on the shot because I don't shoot an animal in the ass. Why? because you stand the biggest chance of blowing up the guts, breaking thre bladder and creating a mess. I visited a guy who was butchering his butt shot buck, the meat reeked of piss.
The room for error is slim to none for making the perfect butt shot. I have listened to hunters who are advocates of the butt shot but condem a head or neck shot. With the butt shot the target is just as small or smaller and it is more than likely on the move.

[Ronforca]

Im with Walksalot on this one.Im not worrying about killing the Deer.I am sure that the Deer would drop but I have seen some Deer shot this way and usually you can write off an awful lot ot meat.Being a meat hunter that kind of shot is not for me.

[mark]

BOOM, hawg down! Gee i might need a follow up shot, but hes not going anywhere, with a 300 mag up his ass! And thats if i couldnt see the neck, cause im definately a neck shooter! Bash away ethical angels, i speak from lots of experience!

[mapguy]

i've let a number of trophy animals go .Of course almost any bullet would do the job . But is that what hunting is about . A clean kill should be the priority .
shooting through the bladder poop shutte guts .I personally prefer something edible .If all your about is horns perhaps you should try a different sport .

[model88]

Dana,How many guides in B.C would be yelling to their client ''shoot''?:lol:

Not this one!!!

[Bow Walker]

For the people that say *NO*, I'd like to undersand thier reasoing?

is it simply because it is impolite? Fear that th bulet will not do it's job on the vitals? Concerned abnout meat damage?

All opinions are interestign...
After 45+ years of gun hunting I have "hung 'em up".......but, during those years I have passed on this type if shot and I feel that if I were still active in gun hunting that I would not take this type of shot for several reasons.

Firstly - I only hunted for meat, I appreciated the big "racks" and would certainly take them if presented with them, but I was mainly after younger "milder tasting" deer.

Secondly - the way my Dad and his hunting partners taught me to hunt, this shot was strictly a no-no. I guess that that particular teaching became a foundation for my code of ethics. I am not being "high-and-mighty' here, either.

Thirdly - the animal in question (from an accuracy stand point) would (I think) have to be stationary for this type of shot to be successful. I he is moving - forget it - too much meat damaged. If he is facing an uphill angle from the shooter - also forget it. Unless there is a horizontal angle from the "one-eye" to the brisket - forget it.

Fourthly - If the animal is stationary..........and by BIGHUNTERFISH's description he is not.....I would likely go for a back-of-the-head-shot before taking an intrusive, impolite, buggered-up shot like the one that some are advocating.

Besides...........you clean the resulting mess up!!

[stanway]

For the people that say *NO*, I'd like to undersand thier reasoing?

is it simply because it is impolite? Fear that th bulet will not do it's job on the vitals? Concerned abnout meat damage?

All opinions are interestign...


Poor percentage shot.
Meat damage.
Meat spoilage (from urine, bile, etc.)
Personal ethics - I hunt for enjoyment of the outdoors and if I'm lucky, the oportunity to put healthy and tasty meat on the table. I don't hunt out of desparation, and the T.H.S. is (IMO) a 'desparation/hail Mary' shot.

[StoneChaser]

i've let a number of trophy animals go .Of course almost any bullet would do the job . But is that what hunting is about . A clean kill should be the priority .
shooting through the bladder poop shutte guts .I personally prefer something edible .If all your about is horns perhaps you should try a different sport .

I've yet to see any more meat loss from the THS than I have from a quartering too shot or broadside shot that hits shoulder bone or a frontal shot.

As for a clean kill...it is very quick. A bullet through the liver and then into the lungs is MOST devastating!

Each to their own...and while not first choice in shot placement, I'll keep putting an X into them be it coming or going... It just plain kills'em!

StoneChaser

[Rod]

I took my first deer with a TH shot, first round was a confirmed hit as I saw s%#t fly off the hide through my scope, deer was about 75 yds away at the first shot and he came right at me at a dead run. About 30 yds away I guess he spotted me and did an end-for-end like only a whitetail can.

I knew I had made a hit and the gun was up so I took a shot I would otherwise pass.

End result was a dead deer with a chunk of hide missing from the top of his back from the first shot and no other entry hole??

After a close inspection I was baffled until the knife went in, the round went straight in the poop-shute, missed the pelvis so hit nothing but guts and turned everything from the diaphram back into soup.

I was using a 303 sporter with Imperial soft points around 120gr and the deer might have gone 25yds after the shot. That's a long way with no guts but he had some serious adrenilin behind him.

Being that I never hit any meat none was shot up and a quick rinse with some creek water cleaned the cavity out and I lost no meat, taste was as good as any whitetail buck I have taken since.

Would I take the shot on a deer that wasn't already hit? I doubt it, not that I feel it isn't a killing shot just too much room for error, same as a head shot or front on shot. Then again if it was truly the biggest buck I had ever seen, he was in the clear, walking with little chance of offering another shot..... I dunno what I would do. It's too easy to say "no way" while sitting at the computer but after a week of bustin' brush with no luck it might be different.

[sawmill]

I dropped a wounded griz with a T.H.shot,my buddiy hit it and rolled it over but it got up and was hauling ass for the thick stuff and I did not want to follow it in,so I shot and hit him at the base of his tail and that was all she wrote.

[300WM]

If I was hunting for a "trophy" buck as stated, I wouldn't hesitate in the least if that was the only shot that was presented.

[Awishanew]

I have to agree with what Bowwalker says. Just getting a pair of antlers is not that important. Besides I doubt very much that I could hit a running or walking deer,(with absolute certainty) in the ring.

[wetcoaster]

As the shot is described nope but each to their own within the law,

Why no? For all the reasons stated above. I believe in a quick kill and preserving the meat to the best of my ability trophy or not. Gut shotting an animal through is butt end doesn't fall into the definition for me . To much margin for error and to much risk of busting open all the nastiness in and around the pelvis and gut.

If you are above the animal and have angle etc that is something different.

[Chuck]

That's an exit - not an entrance!!

I quite agree! If it's a mulie I'd wait, perhaps when he hit the tree line he would stop, turn and look back - quite often they do that, or not. In any case I'd also consider first if I can retrieve him by myself. I once passed on a monster mulie at about 200 yds standing broadside, but had no hope of packing him out in one day by myself. I wasn't equipped for the situation. I'm sure he's still up there somewhere - making more like him!

[eastkoot]

If you want to give suppositories (TsX or not), you should have been doctors!! I think it's a matter of self control and ethics, to each his own.. If you can live with the results, especially the one's that go wrong on this shot, fill you boots..

[LeverActionJunkie]

I said no for the same reason I pass on head/neck shots, I don't like em. Too much room for error, call me old fashion, call me a p*$$y, I don't care. I can wait for a better shot, or hunt up some other buck that ain't winkin at me with his brown eye. I would however shoot a coyote or wolf up the rear, so long as I wasn't carrying a 22lr or my 204.

[Tank]

Looking at a massive set of anters rapidly dissapearing into the thick stuff and I'm standing there with a heavy caliber rifle in my hands....sorry guys, meat damage may not be my number one priority at that moment.

[Elkhound]

Not sure. I haven't been in that situation before. I have seen a bear taken with a THS and the damage inside was truly devastating. I have taken 2 deer and a bear with head shots with excellent results. I know my bullets and my rifle. Each situation is different.

[Fisher-Dude]

I don't need to kill any animal that badly. I pass on low percentage shots every year, and still put meat in the freezer. I've killed over 60 big game animals and a couple go book...I don't need to wound an animal, or even make a mess of one, for the sake of trying to kill something. I do just fine by waiting for the right shot. And BHF gives the big buck scenario to open this thread...who cares if it's a monster or a 2 point? Both animals deserve the same respect.

[LeverActionJunkie]

Well said Fisher-Dude I agree.

[BIGHUNTERFISH]

I have no problem with a guy that knows how to shoot taking a THS ,the same as a good neck shot,it is the Yahoos that let bullets fly and hope they hit something I cant stand.A man has to know his limitations some guys cant make a broadside shot at 100 yards because they get all fevered up,it depends on the hunter and the scenario.:lol:

[BigD]

No, too much uncertainty involved. Sure you could make the best hero shot in the world and it goes right up the brown eye, but then it hits what? The intestines? Hasn’t anyone seen the old war movies where they say the most painful thing and the worst way to die is from a gut shot. So what if animals have been killed that way occasionally, it is considered unethical for a reason, because you can’t always be sure what you are going to hit. And I don’t care about the guy, or the gun or the bullet, or the antler size.

Besides, I have cleaned up enough shit out of a barn to want to do it hunting.

[eastkoot]

x2. Are you a hunter or an ass bandit??

[Stone Sheep Steve]

You don't need to hit the "bullseye" on a THS for it to be effective. There's a lot of highly vascularized tissue in the hind quarters. All you need is to hit a good chunk of flesh for the animal to go down and it will kill the animal due to bloodloss. It's a large target(bigger than the head and neck). Hit it and the animal will go down and with a quick follow up shot it will be dead in moments.
I'm not saying I like the shot, personally. I just said it's effective. I've taken one on a meat 4 pt whitie and vowed not to do it again on a meat buck(too much waste). Put me in a different situation with a big buck and I'll have to make that decision when the time comes. If I do decide to pull the trigger then, I know the buck will go down and stay down.

SSS

[dana]

You know what I find interesting is there were many ragging on me for taking a up close and personal shot in the thick crap on a Monster Buck, saying I was unethical and looking for nothing but personal glory. Some of these same people who were talking smack on me are advocating a THS???? WTF???? My shot was 40 yards with a tight shooting lane at the shoulder. A shot 99.9% of hunters on this site all would take. But I happened to wound the buck soooo, the high moral ethictians came out and condemed me from the comfort of their cozzy glass houses. Yet, these same guys think it's alright to gut shoot a deer up his ass because it's got big antlers and it might get away?????
BTW, I caught up with that wounded buck over 3 weeks later and killed him. My first orginal shot entered the chest just under the shoulder, just missed lungs by less than an inch and took out the opposite shoulder. Yea, a real unethical shot eh?

[longhairmtnman]

How do you do it? Nowhere did I read 'would Dana take this shot'? Yet you try to make this thread all about Dana? Your synicisim is getting old.

[dana]

Yea, it's all about me. LOL! Give me a break dude. I'm commenting how some members here are just full of $hit is all. I told the story of my hunt in Nov and had many members jump all over me because I wounded a buck. Now these same members are advocating texas heartshots? I think these members need to explain how their ethics won't let them take a shoulder shot at 40 yards but will allow them to take a very low percentage shot up the ass. I'd say these same guys would jump all over someone that wounds a buck by using the THS, but if the buck dies, it's okay right?

[longhairmtnman]

When you posted here, did you have the intention of answering the question asked, or hi-jacking the thread? Enough said.

[dana]

I posted my response earlier. I answered the question. If you can indeed read, you'd have seen that. ;) Hijacks are when a topic goes off topic. I'm still talking about Texas Heart Shot's ain't I?

[eastkoot]

Take your best shot !!

[Fisher-Dude]

Lets say it was a very short distance maybe 40 yards and you knew you would make the hit?

Okay all you ass blasters, I want you each to tell us WHERE your gun is sighted at 40 yards? This, by the way, is part of the original scenario. BHF assumes you know. I bet NONE of you really know. Relate it to where your gun hits at 100 yards, as you should all be familiar with how high (or low) it hits there. Be truthful. Back it up with a link to ballistics tables for your gun/bullet/scope combo if you can, tell us how high your scope crosshairs are above your barrel, where your bullet crosses your point of aim, and tell us which range you were at which had a 40 yard (not 50 or 25 yard) setup where you practised this shot. Think about a bullet that starts well below your crosshairs and is sighted for 2 or 3 inches high at 100 yards...it rises a LOT in that 100 yards! Good luck! :lol:

[Gateholio]

I generlaly take a shot at 25/50/100/150/200/300/350 to confirm exactly where the bullets are hitting, prior to hunting season. Anyone that uses his deer rifle to whack off grouse heads at times proabbly knows about this...8)

[BIGHUNTERFISH]

I think there are alot of hunters out there that are really bad shots when it comes to an actual hunting scenario,I dont think grouping shots at a gun range is a hard thing to do with a good rig and quality ammo.But it does not make you an automatic great shot on game.I have shot many deer with a good neck shot because I have confidence in my shooting abilities.There are guys who can take shots that most others would miss or wound the animal with.I believe that 99.9 % of you so called shooters should not take this shot,but there are some guys that can shoot a gopher between the eyes at 500 yards.:lol:

[mark]

BHF, im not disputing anything you just said, but if a hunter is not a good shot, it really doesnt matter. A poorly placed shot is just that. If yer that bad you should be practicing, not hunting!
FD, i rarely disagree with you, But most people i know sight their guns for 100 yards, since thats usually the average shot (there was a thread about this) Most guns sighted at 100 yards, will be within 1" of the crosshairs at 40 yards. if you cant hit yer target at 40 yards, should you be shooting at deer at all?????
And by the way, I second what SSS said, its definately the preferred shot, but it dumps em!
And for those worried about meat waste, if its the biggest deer youve ever seen, its probably packing 10 or 20 pounds more meat than any other deer youll see that year anyway!

[StoneChaser]

Okay all you ass blasters, I want you each to tell us WHERE your gun is sighted at 40 yards? This, by the way, is part of the original scenario. BHF assumes you know. I bet NONE of you really know. Relate it to where your gun hits at 100 yards, as you should all be familiar with how high (or low) it hits there. Be truthful. Back it up with a link to ballistics tables for your gun/bullet/scope combo if you can, tell us how high your scope crosshairs are above your barrel, where your bullet crosses your point of aim, and tell us which range you were at which had a 40 yard (not 50 or 25 yard) setup where you practised this shot. Think about a bullet that starts well below your crosshairs and is sighted for 2 or 3 inches high at 100 yards...it rises a LOT in that 100 yards! Good luck! :lol:

280AI w/140gr TSX @ 3167fps PBR of 8"

10 yds - 0.88"
20yds -0.29"
30yds +0.27"
40yds +0.78"
50yds +1.26"
60yds +1.71"

I've tested this load from 25yds out past 570yds (as far as my range goes).

Explain to me how I could miss a dead on hold at 40yds?

StoneChaser

[StoneChaser]

BTW, I caught up with that wounded buck over 3 weeks later and killed him. My first orginal shot entered the chest just under the shoulder, just missed lungs by less than an inch and took out the opposite shoulder. Yea, a real unethical shot eh?

I'm calling BS on this one... that buck could not chase does and live the merry life you claimed he did for those 3 weeks with a broken shoulder... no way, no how!

Furthermore, how is it possible to enter under the shoulder miss lungs and take out the opposite shoulder?

Last I checked the lungs were tucked in there somewhere?

Your story doesn't add up!

[BIGHUNTERFISH]

If the animal is still no problem but if he is running your going to have to lead him with your shot.The scenario I gave is vague eg. how fast is the buck running ?up hill or level shot,lighting conditions etc.If you have confidence in pulling the trigger great ,but animals dont deserve a hail Mary shot.:lol:

[StoneChaser]

If the animal is still no problem but if he is running your going to have to lead him with your shot.The scenario I gave is vague eg. how fast is the buck running ?up hill or level shot,lighting conditions etc.If you have confidence in pulling the trigger great ,but animals dont deserve a hail Mary shot.:lol:

If he needs a lead, it's not a Texas Heart shot... it's a quartering away shot!

Oh and BTW... I NEVER take hail marry shots!

If I'm not 100% certain on the shot, I pass...no compromises!

StoneChaser

[browningboy]

All situations are different, an example is when a guy only can get away once a year and its the last day and its the chance to get an animal but a crappy shot placement and some wasted meat, the trigger would be pulled, or if you travel 20 hours for that big bull, spend thousands of dollars and you seen him just starting to walk in the bush, sure be tempting (expensive meat too) or a guided trip, spend 14 thousand and thats your only shot, I'm taking it, as I think there a scenario for every situation.
Guys that live in the bush, will obviously pass on these shots more easily than the guy that only has a very limited time to go as well as not be so picky as the guys that live close to the hunting grounds.
If I lived and worked in the bush, I'd probly be a trophy hunter too as you would know the honey holes and all your salt block locations!:lol:

[Fisher-Dude]

280AI w/140gr TSX @ 3167fps PBR of 8"

10 yds - 0.88"
20yds -0.29"
30yds +0.27"
40yds +0.78"
50yds +1.26"
60yds +1.71"

I've tested this load from 25yds out past 570yds (as far as my range goes).

Explain to me how I could miss a dead on hold at 40yds?

StoneChaser

Good job. Stoner, you are the rare exception, a man who really knows his gun, and has spent the time to chart his ballistics. Now, when you start peein' your pants because that buck is soooo big, I hope ya can hold the gun steady so that +.78 doesn't become a +2.78 or -3.78! :wink:

Mark, I've done 40 yard neck shots. I even did a 300 yard neck shot this year at my whitey and nailed him...he already had a bullet through his ribs, but I was just makin' sure, and all I had was ass or neck as he was standing facing away from me (dead on his feet, wasted a good 2nd bullet 8) ). I just think there's a lot more room for error through the butt than through the neck at 40 yards. I'll let him walk if all I get is ass. He's a muley, he just may stop on the next rise and give me the shot I want.

[browningboy]

I've got my gun sighted in at 2" high at 100 yards, never had a problem hitting anything and had 4 kills via a neck shot ( 3 deer and one moose) and the longest shot was 225 yards, if one knows his gun and feels confident and goes to the range and practises, it's amazing the shots that a person can make.

[StoneChaser]

Now, when you start peein' your pants because that buck is soooo big, I hope ya can hold the gun steady so that +.78 doesn't become a +2.78 or -3.78! :wink:

Me too! :|

[dana]

Stonechaser,
Some animals are freakin' amazing what they can do. Any seasoned hunter, such as yourself, should be able to attest to this fact. So why are you calling BS? Did you know the day I killed that buck I shot him in the lungs and he still ran straight up the mountain for over 30 minutes? How can a buck with no lungs climb straight up slopes averaging 60% in knee deep snow using only 3 legs???? F### if I know, but he did it. The wound from 3 weeks previous was healed up. The muscle in the broken shoulder was shriveled up. No smell, just a yellow tingle to the meat. How did I miss lungs the first time? I don't have a clue. Maybe I did hit them and he just continued on anyways.

[dana]

Stonechaser
You still haven't answered the question as to why my orginal shot was unethical and yet you still think a shot up the ass of a stotting muley is ethical. Yes, I use the word stotting, as that is what muleys do when they run straight away from you. Still think you are such a marksmen that you can compensate for the stott and catch him in mid air up the poopshoot 100% of the time? What about an unseen branch or twig that may deflect that bullet right into his back hams? Yea, that's a highly ethical shot ain't it?

[BIGHUNTERFISH]

Dana ''Quit stiring up shit on my thread'' with your old piece of crap rifle,the only shot I would be taking is a shot of whiskey.:evil:

[dana]

Stirring eh? Come on now, I wouldn't do such a thing would I?

The one thing I forgot to mention about stotting muleys, they always seem to jump sideways at the drop of a hat. I hear it has something to do with staying out of reach of the claws of a pursuing lion or something. I'm sure those experts that can do the THS in their sleep with their eyes closed, compensate for this right? You want to talk balistics, blah blah blah. That only works at the range. Put yourself in hunting conditions, with anything from brush, slope, or the movements of the animal you are shooting at, and it is a totally different ballgame.

[BIGHUNTERFISH]

I am enjoying this site,Dana since you left that other site their ratings have dropped.It is about as much fun as a prostate exam,and thats on a good day.:lol:

[Walksalot]

My buddy used to own a store with a butcher shop and used to cut wild game. The stories he told of the animals which hunters brought in would make a buzzard puke.
There are seperations between the meat and anyone who has butchered their own game which has been shot behind the front shoulder knows how the blood follows these seperations. As you cut up your animal you are scraping blood off the meat. I couldn't imagine the taste of an animal with blood, shit and rumen in these serperations.
Having said that, if you want to shoot your animal up the ass then fill your boots. Personally, I have, in close to forty years of hunting, never had to clean a gut shot animal, touch wood. I will do my best to let that streak continue.
The majority of the animals I have shot have been head and neck shots and have never lost an animal wounded in the head or neck. My goal in hunting is to have the animal never hear the shot that kills it.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

What the hell is going on here? All the guys I usually agree with I'm not quite seeing eye-to-eye on this one.

F/D-Choose to pass on the shot based on your ethics. That's a good thing. Going down the "not knowing their ballistics" angle doesn't cut it with me. The Ass on a mature mulie buck is not a small target. You're not try to feed him a GI scope:| . I'm not a ballistic junky like some but my rifle is 3" high at 100 yds(zeroed at 300yds). I know that at 40 yds the rifle will be shooting lower than 3" high. What we're trying to do here is hit a "paper plate-sized target" at 40yds-not a bulls eye.

Dana-A lot of the mulies I see start to trott before they break into a stott. Maybe all the ones I see are hybrids. In the scenario BHF doesn't mention a "bouncing" target.

S/C-Deer can sometimes suck up some lead. A buddy I was with shot a meat buck muley a few years ago. When we gutted it we noticed a big clot in the chest cavity. When we got it skinned out we found 4 holes(2 in, 2 out). Earlier in the day someone had shot it in the shoulders but the shot was high in the "no-mans-land" above the lungs but below the spine. The shoulders were not "blown-out" but there was a pencil sized hole in each shoulder blade.
Obviously, this hunter and Dana were both shooting Partitions:wink: .

SSS

[CanuckShooter]

THS? No way, no how. I don't believe this is an ethical shot...ever, regardless of the trophy quality of the animal, IMO, and would, and have passed on it many times. And if someone in my camp shot an animal this way...I'd burn his ham and eggs for a week...and come up with some good nick name for 'em so they would never forget how we feel about being so desperate for an animal that you would disrespect it enough to poop shoot it.

Dana>> I've seen your scenario more than once in my lifetime...so don't sweat the naysayers as in time they will probably be faced with the same thing.

[mark]

For all the NO WAY people, heres a scenario, youve made a shot on a critter, your not sure where its hit but its hit and taking off fast, down hill or into the thick crap. Now what would ya do, do your ethics and meat concerns still tell you to hold off???

[steel_ram]

For all the NO WAY people, heres a scenario, youve made a shot on a critter, your not sure where its hit but its hit and taking off fast, down hill or into the thick crap. Now what would ya do, do your ethics and meat concerns still tell you to hold off???

Too bad you made a crappy shot, should of been more careful but it happens. Now it's no holds barred. It is the hunters responsibility to ensure that animal doesn't suffer. Plow away and enjoy your specially season meat.

[Onesock]

Disagree with the plate sized target for sure. Hit left or right of the middle and you are taking out one of the hind quarters. Hit low and the same thing out goes some prime meat. Maybe just "trophy hunters" take the texas heart shot.

[CanuckShooter]

For all the NO WAY people, heres a scenario, youve made a shot on a critter, your not sure where its hit but its hit and taking off fast, down hill or into the thick crap. Now what would ya do, do your ethics and meat concerns still tell you to hold off???

You bet, unless a head/neck shot is possible....a poop shot is out of the question..besides I'm pretty sure of where it's hit, so it won't go far usually.

[StoneChaser]

Stonechaser,
Some animals are freakin' amazing what they can do. Any seasoned hunter, such as yourself, should be able to attest to this fact. So why are you calling BS? Did you know the day I killed that buck I shot him in the lungs and he still ran straight up the mountain for over 30 minutes? How can a buck with no lungs climb straight up slopes averaging 60% in knee deep snow using only 3 legs???? F### if I know, but he did it. The wound from 3 weeks previous was healed up. The muscle in the broken shoulder was shriveled up. No smell, just a yellow tingle to the meat. How did I miss lungs the first time? I don't have a clue. Maybe I did hit them and he just continued on anyways.

Steve, I agree animals are amazing, but from mouse to moose they all run on the same principle. Oxygen rich blood to the brain... or death!

Shredded lungs can't do that...

Not calling BS that he was hit... but a broken shoulder (the large joint) renders the leg inoperable end of story!

Possibly you meant a hole in the scapula?

I just can't picture how a bullet could miss low, break the offside shoulder (midway up the critter right in line with the heart/lungs) and not hit lungs is all (or scapula for that matter).

I have seen a bullet hit too high (above the lungs, below the spine) with no effect, which makes sense if a guy looks a diagram of a deer.

StoneChaser

[StoneChaser]

Stonechaser
You still haven't answered the question as to why my orginal shot was unethical and yet you still think a shot up the ass of a stotting muley is ethical. Yes, I use the word stotting, as that is what muleys do when they run straight away from you. Still think you are such a marksmen that you can compensate for the stott and catch him in mid air up the poopshoot 100% of the time? What about an unseen branch or twig that may deflect that bullet right into his back hams? Yea, that's a highly ethical shot ain't it?

Honestly I don't recall saying (or thinking for that matter) that you made an unethical shot on that first incident in November. Shit happens in the timber... I know there was a barrage of insults hurled at ya though (if you dig up anywhere where I claimed were unethical post it and I'll apologize publicly). I did make a wise crack on Gregs deercamp thread about having to be able to stab myself, burn a tent down, and blow 40yard shots... but all in good fun.

Finally let me say that I do not LOVE the THS... but it does work, and I will do it when the conditions allow it (given no other shot), and belive it or not you don't have to hit the arsehole. Left or right (breaks the pelvis and still get's it done...high takes out spine (really off mark would hit neck/back of head), and low would hit pelvis too... I'd suggest an 8" "kill zone" in reality.

As for marksmenship...

I won't take a shot I can't make, those who hunt with me can attest to that... I pass up shots as often as the next guy.

Anyhow... this thread is digressing fast, and clearly my lack of ethics and marksmenship seem to be half the reason... I'll keep out of this one now.

I will add however, that I'll have to reassess my cartridge/bullet combo when I hunt in your neck of the woods this coming November... sounds like those bucks are damn near bullet proof!

StoneChaser

[BigD]

I really liked the article/thread that was posted about “Are Guns and Hunting Good for Kids?” I think that most of us would agree that it is. It is a great opportunity to teach kids about wildlife, nature, survival skills and so on. But according to this thread I should take my son out hunting and teach him all about hunting and ethics and that he should respect animals and so on…………..but the next time I see a huge rack of antlers running away from us I should throw all the ethic talk out the window and try to shoot the animal in the ass??

What does that teach? That despite all the hot wind about ethics and respect for animals…it teaches that when it really comes down to it ethics should be followed only when they don’t really matter and a better policy in life is to be opportunistic: make up your ethics up as you go along. Or I could just tell him that we are exempted from the rules because “were special”, we are better hunters then “average”, and we know where the bullet is going to go. OK, that sounds better, fire away.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Disagree with the plate sized target for sure.

Onesock- Why do you think they call it a "Texas" Heart Shot?? That's because it's a big kill zone. I agree that it wastes more meat than I like. That's why I said in an earlier post that I won't do it again on a meat buck. I have a friend that says it's his preferred shot(not mine) for sheep. Big target and they go down where they were standing. He's been in on lots of kills and says it works everytime.

SSS

[LeverActionJunkie]

I agree BigD seems like most are only ethical when it's convinient. That way it doesn't get in the way of a big set of antlers.

You know what the problem with confidence in "my rifle" or "my cartridge" or "my abilities" is that it breeds arrogance and cocky BS then you start doing sh$t you know ain't right.

This thread has me thinking of a scene me and the father inlaw watched couple seasons ago: Were sitting on this ridge above Maiden Creek by Clinton. We ride up to this clearing which usually has deer activity and spot some does. So we start glassing for bucks, as we are a little higher than the field and still within the trees the deer don't realize we're there. Notice a couple little bucks milling around and we are thinking of how to get in for a shot at some steaks. Our horses turn their attention in the direction of the road and soon the deer do too. A black ford comes up a skid trail to the edge of the meadow , a guy leans out the window and the drivers door opens and he leans over the roof , one of em shoots then the other now all the deer are running for cover as the deer are running both shooters ( I won't call them hunters) empty their guns at the deer, perhaps perfecting the THS? The two guys got into the truck and drove off, never even checked for blood, maybe they had too much confidence in their abilities and Knew without a doubt that the deer were missed. We rode down to the clearing to check the seen tied our horses, and I hear my father in law "F&@K!&* god damn Surrey Commando's" as he points to blood in the grass. We trailed and shot the little spike he had a nice little hole just behind the diaphragm. The clearing in question is 150yrds across and the shots were taken at maybe 75yrds. Guess these guys didn't have to follow the rules, maybe they were "better than average", maybe they shot a whole box of ammo from the bench at a piesc of paper back in June so they had all the confidence in the world!

[TRACKnTRAIL]

In my opinion a THS is just as ethical as a head or neck shot. I have seen quite a few head and neck shots go wrong, with the neck being grazed or the jaw being hit, which resulted in many hours of tracking and unneccesary suffering. Now I have only seen 2 THS but both times the animal dropped and there was very minimal meat damage. Idealy I want a heart and lung shot but would be just as confident taking a THS as I Would a head or neck shot

[RiverOtter]

In my experience, a cheerio shot is very effective, if you can make the shot. Alot of room for wasted meat if your off center, but a lethal shot for sure with a premium bullet. In the end, for me anyway, it comes down to knowing the range, knowing your abilities and knowing when not to shoot because conditions are not favorably(ie. wind and/or poor rest/stability).

RO

[Gateholio]

I htihk that some peopel mistakenly equate a THS with a gut shot, which is not the truth. You are aiming for the same vitals you are in a broadside shot, just the bullet is taking a different route.

Any shot can be a "low percentage" or "unethical" shot- If it's not done properly, the shooter is not capable enough to make the shot or if the gear is not appropriate to the task at hand. Something to keep in mind.

Carrry on.:lol:

[BIGHUNTERFISH]

Dana,has alot of experience if he says a mulie doesnt like it up the ass its true.:lol:

[wjh131]

No, not humane enough for me.

[Browningmirage]

I passed on the biggest island blacktail (4 point) i have seen because it was running away, i kept on waiting for it to slow down, but it just kept on running away, wouldnt present a proper shot for me, so i decided not too. This would have been my third and biggest deer, but because i believed the shot was the wrong one to make, i didnt take it, thus, i dont think i would take a THS. Trust me it was tempting, but i knew i was a little shaky, and a two or three inch target just didnt seem feasable to me at the time (and wouldnt today either)

[mark]

Dana,has alot of experience if he says a mulie doesnt like it up the ass its true.:lol:

What the heck does this mean???????? Im sure not to many critters LIKE it up the ass! Do you think that dana speaks to the deer and they have told him this?? :lol:

[mark]

No, not humane enough for me.

Not humane enough?? i guess you shoot all your critters in the brain then!

[wetcoaster]

I htihk that some peopel mistakenly equate a THS with a gut shot, which is not the truth. You are aiming for the same vitals you are in a broadside shot, just the bullet is taking a different route.

Any shot can be a "low percentage" or "unethical" shot- If it's not done properly, the shooter is not capable enough to make the shot or if the gear is not appropriate to the task at hand. Something to keep in mind.

Carrry on.:lol:

Gatehouse I disagree.

A THS aimed at the boiler goes through: the muscle in the rear end, hopefully missing the tiny pelvic gurtle, through the vacinity of the bladder (likely exploding it), through the lower digestive tract, through the abdominal cavity and all of it's organs, through the diaphram before hopefully hitting the lungs and or heart. But that isn't a gut shot?

Most people looking for a texas heart shot are hoping to disable the deer enough so they get a follow up shot. There are very large arteries in the upper legs and pelvis. You can do considerable damage to these arteries and slow them by busting the pelvis or upper femur etc but it is a pretty low percentage shot in trying to hit the boiler.

True any shot can be screwed up but some have a higher likelyhood than others of going wrong. Some have a wide margin for error and some don't. The THS has a small margin for error, has a higher likelyhood of producing a long drawn out death and therefore must have a lower recovery rate of the animals by hunters.

[Maxx]

One of the best shots from any Hunting Video I own was on a Marco Polo Ram at 250 yards, the only shot the guy had was the THS- blood came out like a garden hose from the entrance wound, and the Ram dropped,

Like others have said, would you rather take a head shot? It is an effective was to kill,

[Onesock]

SSS- It is a very small target if you do not want to ruin alot of meat, I don't see how you can argue that!! But then again as I stated before, not everyone hunts for meat..

[Gateholio]

[quote=wetcoaster]Gatehouse I disagree.

A THS aimed at the boiler goes through: the muscle in the rear end, hopefully missing the tiny pelvic gurtle, through the vacinity of the bladder (likely exploding it), through the lower digestive tract, through the abdominal cavity and all of it's organs, through the diaphram before hopefully hitting the lungs and or heart. But that isn't a gut shot?


The THS is no more a"gut shot" than a full on frontal shot, in that the bullet destroys the vitals yet also hits the "guts." A "gut shot" is generlaly described as only hitting the rear portion of the thorax, hitting less vital organs, but missing the more vital ones, thereby ensuring a slow and painful death, rather than a quick death.


Most people looking for a texas heart shot are hoping to disable the deer enough so they get a follow up shot. There are very large arteries in the upper legs and pelvis. You can do considerable damage to these arteries and slow them by busting the pelvis or upper femur etc but it is a pretty low percentage shot in trying to hit the boiler.

The boiler room is behind something- If you are aiming at the boiler room through another part of the deer, you are still going to hit the vitals, assuming your bullet/cartridge combo is up ot the job.


True any shot can be screwed up but some have a higher likelyhood than others of going wrong. Some have a wide margin for error and some don't. The THS has a small margin for error, has a higher likelyhood of producing a long drawn out death and therefore must have a lower recovery rate of the animals by hunters.

Don't get me wrong, I'll take a broadside shot over a THS every day, but I don't think it's got a lower recovery rate. It seems that most of the guys on this site that have used the THS seem to believe that it works, and mostly the peopel that haven't tried it think it doesn't work.

If someone is saying they *personally* won't take a particular shot because they lack confidence in thier ability to kill with that shot, that is one thing, but it is different than saying "A THS is unethical, inhumane, wrecks meat etc" when this may not be true at all.

[huntwriter]

Although I never would take a Texas heart shoot – I do not feel confident enough – I have seen many hunters take this shot and each time the deer dropped dead on the spot.

I have to agree with Gatehouse’s comment:
“Any shot can be a "low percentage" or "unethical" shot- if it's not done properly, the shooter is not capable enough to make the shot or if the gear is not appropriate to the task at hand. Something to keep in mind. “

Discussions about the “ethics” of such and other shots are very much personal opinions and what a hunter feels confident with. Confidence in ones ability and that of the equipment are the deciding factor in this scenario. As I said. I would not take the shot for reason stated. That doesn't mean others, more capable than me, shouldn’t take such shots either. ;)

[wetcoaster]

Discussions about the “ethics” of such and other shots are very much personal opinions and what a hunter feels confident with. Confidence in ones ability and that of the equipment are the deciding factor in this scenario. As I said. I would not take the shot for reason stated. That doesn't mean others, more capable than me, shouldn’t take such shots either. ;)


Ethics are very much personal opinion I agree. Each to their own within the law I always say therefore I would never look down upon or critisize a hunter for taking the shot.

Stating fact where it does not exist however is another matter. The biology of the animal says it is a lower percentage shot lower percentage shots by extension must lead to a lower recovery rate. Gatehouse comparing a THS to a full frontal is rediculous but I guess you will argue anything. In a full frontal if the deer move to quarter slightly you still hit the boiler not so on a THS you must have perfect angle.

[elkster]

I've read this thread with great interest. Lets see if I have the facts straight. First you have a monster muley heading into the timber and all you can see is his big rack and ass. (wow! t & a):smile: He is at close range and you are confident you can make the shot. Do you shoot? So you are going to shoot the shit outta him, and probably not wanting to waste anymore meat, or an expensive bullet to finish him off, you beat him to death with one of the numerous big branches that have come down in our many big wind storms. So! in other words you are going to shoot the shit outta him and beat the piss outta him, then drag him home.:smile: :smile: :smile:
O.K. seriously, if it was the only shot I had, yes I would probably take it.

[Gateholio]

Ethics are very much personal opinion I agree. Each to their own within the law I always say therefore I would never look down upon or critisize a hunter for taking the shot.

I agree that ethics (within the law) are very personal.


Stating fact where it does not exist however is another matter. The biology of the animal says it is a lower percentage shot lower percentage shots by extension must lead to a lower recovery rate. Gatehouse comparing a THS to a full frontal is rediculous but I guess you will argue anything. In a full frontal if the deer move to quarter slightly you still hit the boiler not so on a THS you must have perfect angle.

You have just changed the context in which I made the statement.

You said:


A THS aimed at the boiler goes through: the muscle in the rear end, hopefully missing the tiny pelvic gurtle, through the vacinity of the bladder (likely exploding it), through the lower digestive tract, through the abdominal cavity and all of it's organs, through the diaphram before hopefully hitting the lungs and or heart. But that isn't a gut shot?

And I replied:

The THS is no more a"gut shot" than a full on frontal shot, in that the bullet destroys the vitals yet also hits the "guts." A "gut shot" is generlaly described as only hitting the rear portion of the thorax, hitting less vital organs, but missing the more vital ones, thereby ensuring a slow and painful death, rather than a quick death

My position was the bullet doens't do anyhting different than on a full frontal form the same angle- Bullet path is hte same, except reverse.

I'll admit to liking to see a healthy debate, but I won't argue "anyhting":lol: Debate is interesting and informative, and brings us new ideas. This thread would be prety boring if someone just posted "My granddad told me a THS was wrong so don't do it" and it was followed by a stream of x2 x3 x4 ditto etc8-)

[dana]

Done stiring for the moment, here's my 2 cents on the issue. Every hunter that has hunted for any length of time has had shots that they regret. Be it inexperience or just plain buck fever. If we are honest, I'm sure the vast majority on this board have flung lead at a fleeing deer at one point or another in our hunting careers. There is the 'heat of the moment' when the adrenaline is flowing when stuff happens fast and the hunter has to react. I'd say the majority of Texas Heart Shots happen under these circumstances. And sometime, a missle of luck is sent and the animal drops in it's tracks, other times it's only air being hit and the hunter's pride being hurt, and then there is that dreaded feeling of seeing blood and sense of forboding when the animal is not recovered.
Now, as we age and mature, there should be a stronger sense of self control among the ranks of the seasoned hunter. That self control is able to respond quickly but at the same time deliberately and knows when to pull and when not to pull the trigger. It has been said in this post many a time, 'if that is the only shot that presents itself.' The question is, what if impatience is keeping you from taking advantage of a better shot opportunity later on down the line? Do you just smack a deer up the poopshoot, with a high chance at creating a mess, or do you wait for the opportunity of another shot to present itself. Knowing when to keep your wits about you is critical. Maybe it's a grunt at the right time or even a whistle that will move that buck from THS to Heart-lung. Impatience will bring Murphy a calling time and time again. But Patience will be rewarded. Maybe not at that exact moment you see that buck step into the timber and out of sight, but somewhere down the line you will see success. Hunting Ethics do come into play here. The ethics of teaching your kids what is the correct way to respond in a tense situation. Teaching them by walking the talk. You wouldn't purposefully go out and shoot a buck in the guts would you? Yet how many of us have had a poor shot too far back and yet we still retrieved the animal? If it worked once, shouldn't it work all the time? That seems to be the logic being followed on the THS isn't it. Well I've seen it work 3 times so therefore it must be good right?
If there is anything these hunting boards are good for other than just BSing with people and trying desperately not to be bored out of our minds, it should be teaching people proper hunting etiquette and instilling in people a strong hunting ethic.

[wetcoaster]

"My position was the bullet doens't do anyhting different than on a full frontal form the same angle- Bullet path is hte same, except reverse."

Gate you slay me .:lol:

The "in reverse" is huge in this argument because bullets lose both velocity and are deflected from their path the further that they travel through the body. In one case you are shooting it in the vitals and the bullet may carry through into the gut in the other case the bullet enters the gut and may carry through to the vitals. For me there is a world of difference.

Do you agree it is a lower percentage shot at least?

[bigwhiteys]

Interesting Thread... I am confident with my shooting skills but will usually pass on anything other then a solid broadside shot.

I saw a whitetail that had been shot up the rump with a .338. The bullet blew half it's ass off and then ended up in the neck ruining a pile of meat in the process. The buck had to be shot again to finish it off.

Lower percentage shot for sure. Lots of big bone & muscle to connect with in that area too... pelvis, hips, femurs, joints etc...

Happy Hunting!
Carl

[Gateholio]

"
Gate you slay me .:lol:
[QUOTE]
The "in reverse" is huge in this argument because bullets lose both velocity and are deflected from their path the further that they travel through the body. In one case you are shooting it in the vitals and the bullet may carry through into the gut in the other case the bullet enters the gut and may carry through to the vitals. For me there is a world of difference.

Once again you take my comments out of context. My comments were regarding the bullet hitting the guts, (gut shot) which they are probably going to do on both shots. You, on the other hand, are talkign about bullet /cartridge performance.....And if you are concerned about your gears ability to do the job, then I refer you to my commments earlier, where I said that if your gear or you are not up to it, dont' do it.


Do you agree it is a lower percentage shot at least


You have to look at that one in context, too. Is our 40 yard THS a lower percentage shot than a 400 yard broadside shot, for instance? Or how about a broadside shot in thick cover compared to a THS in the open etc etc...

It's not as simple as saying that it is a lower percentage for recovery, unless we are presented with both angles at the same range, exaclty the same circumstances etc, which in that case, I think the broadside shot is a better option-But in the circumstances above, the THS may have the better recovery rate.

However, I sure don't go out looking for asses to shoot, so don't take my comments that way!8-)

[hunter1947]

My thought hear. You have very hi odds that you could wound the animal with a misplaced shot when the animal is on the run. I my self would pass on this animal or any ,it is not fair to animal that you are shooting at ,even if you think you are Davey crockett. I have let so many animals go over the years because i could not get a good standing shot. Lots of times animals are running right away from me at 40 yards up to 200 yards ,i have let them all go. To me a standing shot is my chose and IT ALWAYS WILL BE.http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif hunter 1947.

[jjensen20]

I've been hunting a few times with a few different guides and all of their modos seem to be shoot until it drops. I don't necessarily agree with this but if you are trophy hunting alot of people could care less about the meat. Pretty sad if you ask me :mad:

[Phil]

I have tried the ass shot once and got lucky. The bullet grazed the inner thigh and unzippered the belly spilling the guts out almost instantly. The bullet carried on and entered the chest. The deer walked for a few yards and dropped. Not one ounce of meat was lost. Gutting was real easy too. On the other hand I later saw a deer that was shot in the ass by someone else and saw so much dammage that it changed my mind fore ever. To answer the question honestly, I would have to say no to the ass shot unless I was so close I could shove the barrel of my gun right up it.:lol:

[krazy]

BOOM, hawg down! Gee i might need a follow up shot, but hes not going anywhere, with a 300 mag up his ass! And thats if i couldnt see the neck, cause im definately a neck shooter! Bash away ethical angels, i speak from lots of experience!

Ditto

I have a hard time with the ethics argument on this issue. If you are hunting your end goal is to kill something. If you find the actual killing of an animal ethical then I fail to see how a massive blood loss death via a lung shot is any diffrent than a massive blood loss death via a major artery in the rear end. Or how a broadside spine shot is any different than a 'rear end' spine shot or neck shot for that matter. Anyway you cut it you shoot, the animal suffers and then it dies - if you don't know that going in you are just fooling yourself.

Saying that it's a low percentage shot does not make sense to me either (in this scenario). If you can't hit a stationary HUGE mule deer bucks ass at 40 yards then you need to get to the range a bit more.

Oh ... and anytime you kill something with a rifle there will be meat damage. I have seen some double lung / shoulder shots destoy whole front ends! I guess the THS could do the same to a rear end!

So I guess what I'm trying to say is ....... BANG!

[Deaddog]

Well, quite a topic, I have had a forty inch ram at 75 yards on a trot running straight away from me, for some reason that I don't know to this day I did not take the texas heart shot, rather I went for a head shot..... and it worked, bullet came out the bottom of the rams horn. I still had to finish it off .. believe it or not. Point being that in the heat of the moment instinct takes over, I do not believe it is unethical to take the THS and in retrospect I should of taken it, A good clean kill is ethical regardless which end it starts from:lol:

[Fisher-Dude]

Ditto

I have a hard time with the ethics argument on this issue. If you are hunting your end goal is to kill something.

Not in my family or circle of friends. We go out for reasons other than to kill something. The killing is secondary to the experience of just being there and sharing good times with friends. I let the largest muley buck I have ever seen (by far!) walk away into the trees at 80 yards because I didn't feel I had a good shot at him. I still enjoy thinking about that deer practically every day. I'm glad I don't spend every day full of regret at a bad shot.

[Blktail]

I double lunged a big bear with my .06 a few years back. I tried the Texas Heart shot as it was running away. At 215 yards the bullet hit an inch right of the base of the tail and a hair high. It was a HIGH SHOCK soft point and it didn't make it through the pelvis before turning to dust. So bullet choice is very important.

Having said that I would take the shot at the mulie at 40 yards because I no longer use those bullets and I am not worried about a bit of meat damage.

Head and neck shots are far more unethical in my opinion because of the number of deer moose and elk one guy I know has lost after taking them. He's the type of guy that freeks out at you for wasting meat with a heart shot and then brags about the animals he shot in the head only to have them get up and run while he's giving the high five. Poor blood trail from a broken skull bone. Likely dead too.:mad:

[craigchaplin]

To each his own....I personally would never take any shot other than broadside heart and lung.....for various reasons. One being i know this shot will kill the animal 100% I don't take long shots(only because i find it more challenging to get closer and my choice of rifle150 yards + tops) and i don't take shots that have a good chance of wounding an animal. So far i have never had to take more than one shot. But thats me and those are my personal ethics. If someone else has no problem doing it other ways and it works for them then give-er....who am i to judge.......however i do think and WOULD judge someone who took shots at running deer....reason one the probability of wounding it is better than killing it i don't care how good a shot you think you are. And number two and more importantly you can't predict where your bullet will fly to any degree if you are shooting and swinging your gun at the same time....it aint duck hunting and yer not shooting in the air. I believe we all learned to look past the target for what may be behind it.
Just my two cents

[wetcoaster]

This has been a far more intereting post than I thought it would have turned out to be. Really surprising how opinions about it seem to run the gambit. I am sure learning tons about the mindset of other hunters on here when it comes to shot selection.

[NightOwl74]

A while ago(Oct. 7, 2005), I was hunting with a buddy who made one of these shots on a mulie. We rode his quad pre-dawn into a little overgrown hideout we know of. We had 2 treestands set up , 600 yards apart(guess who got the lucky one, grrrr.lol) one hour of sitting and seeing squat I climbed down and started walking towards our meeting spot when I hear 2 shots in quick succession. Turns out my buddy got bored too, came down the stand and took a quick nap in the grass. He woke to see a 2 point meat buck only ten yards from where he was laying beside a log. (I forgot to mention we had sprayed our boot soles with doe pee! lol). Well the only shot he had was this guys ass as it turned to exit. A perfect shot! Believe it or not, because he was kneeling at the time, the angle of the shot sent the bullet straight through the anus and up into the spine with absolutely no meat damage besides losing a few chops off the back. Second shot finished it. I wouldn't have taken the shot but in this case it was quick and he sure was proud that he had meat for his family.

[Mattimoose]

Okay all you ass blasters, I want you each to tell us WHERE your gun is sighted at 40 yards? This, by the way, is part of the original scenario. BHF assumes you know. I bet NONE of you really know. Relate it to where your gun hits at 100 yards, as you should all be familiar with how high (or low) it hits there. Be truthful. Back it up with a link to ballistics tables for your gun/bullet/scope combo if you can, tell us how high your scope crosshairs are above your barrel, where your bullet crosses your point of aim, and tell us which range you were at which had a 40 yard (not 50 or 25 yard) setup where you practised this shot. Think about a bullet that starts well below your crosshairs and is sighted for 2 or 3 inches high at 100 yards...it rises a LOT in that 100 yards! Good luck! :lol:

Buddy, all trajectories start-out as a straight line; why is everybody on this sight splitting hairs so vehemently. It's not cool. The difference in point-of-impact with my .338 between 40 and 100 yards is negligible beyond knowing it is high. It's a pretty big target. We are not talking about BPCR's (Black-Powder Center Fire Rifles) here, they have their own web-site. If your rifle has a rainbow trajectory, you would shoot-it more anyways.

With the Canadian Rangers, we spent time familiarizing ourselves with the Lee-Enfield #4 Mk. 1's. We also had opportunity to try the current C7,C8 and C9. The rubberized ELCAN telescope on the C7 and C9 has a post and 2 crosshairs. The elevation-adjustable mount starts at a setting of 300 yards. The second crosshair is not etched straight across, and is parallel to the first. If a man is targeted, (or a Deer for that matter as they are similar in height), and he fits between the lines; he is at 300 yards or under and no sight correction is necessary as the 62 grain military loading shoots flat enough to humanely kill the opponent. The point is if I had 180 grain bullet in my .338 or a 175 in a 7mm Rem, the trajectory would be similar assuming similar BC and initial velocity.

I have a hard time seeing someone missing the important part of a Deer's ass completely if his rifle is sighted-in 3" high at 100 yards and the deer is at 40. Of course, I am assuming that most guys out there were trained to to take a 6 O'clock hold on a 100 yard bullseye as I was since childhood. Dead-on holds are idiocy with open sights because your target is covered. They are not to smart with a scope either, as you have the scope to shoot farther and with most standard calibers, you can kill cleanly with a dead-on hold this way at 200.

I'm sorry you've taken this so personally, but I'm not into being called an ass blaster. I am also sure there are others on here who have said yes that do know a lot more about ballistics than you. Hunting is an imperfect sport, and a lot of times, like in Ontario here, you may wait over 10 years to get a Bull moose tag in our lottery system. I get one every 10 years or so and I don't screw around.

My rifle is a tool. It is the best tool I can afford and It is in my opinion the most powerful rifle I can shoot accurately and quickly to ensure the most humane kill. It has the horsepower necessary to get the job done even if the shot is not to the right and to the square and to the level. No-one can shoot all their Moose while it's sleeping, standing-up next to a spirit level at the end of a tape measure with a plumb-bob hanging from it's dick, come-on.

One opening morning, behind our hunt-camp, a cow-and a calf Moose walked-out into the swail. My uncle was on a hill where our lookout is and was waiting for the cow and the calf to get closer to the creek before taking a shot, to make canoeing them out easier. The calf was in the crosshairs and my uncle was waiting, when someone from across the creek started shooting. Some yahoo across the creek was banging away at the cow. My uncle dropped the calf and the cow made-off.

When my uncle and my father reached the creek, they scolded the other young guy and his girlfriend for not letting them know they were in the area, as the whole length of the creek was always hunted by our big gang, and there was plenty of room. My father tagged the calf, as the other party went to look for the cow. My father and uncle were dressing the calf when, after a short period of about 20 minutes, the couple emerged and concluded the cow was lost. Now the calf was cooling, and my uncle told them that undoubtedly the cow was hit and the tracks just had to be followed, but the young guy said he did that but there was little blood.

My uncle and father had no cow tag but were unable to let it go at that. Within about 45 minutes, they had followed the cow to an area not far from the calf. She had circled into the wind a bit and burst-into a run out into the swail; at an old beaver dam that was a well-used crossing. My uncle, with an old Bushnell, Scopechief on 3x with the BDC (Bullet Drop Compensator) set to 100 shot the cow up-the-cornhole running at about 25 yards and she fell about 15 strides after; hit with a .338 with a 225-grain remington Core-Lokt from his post '64 Winchester model 70.

The other party then tagged this animal, and were happy that someone-else had taken the time to show them how it was done. The other shooter had a Remington 7400 in 30-06 that he probably shot little, and had broken the cow's jaw badly, probably attempting a head-shot, but he said he was aiming behind the shoulder and had probably banged his scope. Of course bullsh__ ,see-through, mounts are never the most reliable, that way, so it wouldn't surprise me.

The moral of the story, is that you shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush because that way others won't do the same to you. I don't know you from assholes, and I don't know you well enough to call you an ass blaster. I routinely practice with my hunting rifle before the hunt at 25, 50, 100,200, and 300 yards. I have put mure than 400 rounds through my .338 since it was done-up and I also shoot with the scope on 1.5 and 5x to check for parallax. I practice on clay pigeons on a plank in a gravel pit at 300 yards and smash them with regularity with 250 grain Hornady's, before I break-into the Nosler partitions for hunting.

I am a conscientios and seasoned rifleman and hunter, and if I'm gonna see one animal at 40 yards and I'm gonna have to wait ten years to shoot one again, I'll take that shot and the animal will die and who cares if you made a little hamburger, as it's better than none at all. Lots of deer have been shot through the heart and longs and ran 1/4 mile anyways, and it really has a lot to do with what they are gonna do with that five minutes of blood in their body. Purportedly, dangerous game like lions and tigers have had their heart shot-out and still manage to kill or maim the shooter.

Because of the check-valve nature of blood vessels, this phenomena relies on whether the heart is shot-out during expansion or contraction. After contraction, if the animal has made the decision to flee or fight, it is theoretically possible for them to do a lot of things. So like I said at the beginning, hunting is not a sure thing, that's why it's not called killing. My cousin once shot a Black Bear 5 times while running away from him. And it dropped after a long run. After that, he never hunted with Winchester Silver Tips again, because after we skinned it we had discovered that the noses of the 180 grain bullets fired from his .303 British, Winchester model 95 hadn't expanded much but had just bent on impact, careening around the vitals inneffectually and exiting through the ribs in some cases. The only real killer struck bone in the front shoulder and caused it to roll and die. But it too is dead and the hunter did his job. Meat wasn't so much an issue, though as it was a nuisance bear around the farm but it still was killed as humanely as possible , and he won't use that ammunition again.

P.S.- I made this a moose thing because we have no mule deer here in Ontario. You folks are always talking about "Monster Mulies" so same-difference.

P.S.S-I wrote a lot because it left more points for discussion which is what forums are supposed to be about. Not slinging slurrs or epithets.

[Mattimoose]

I generlaly take a shot at 25/50/100/150/200/300/350 to confirm exactly where the bullets are hitting, prior to hunting season. Anyone that uses his deer rifle to whack off grouse heads at times proabbly knows about this...8)

Exactamundo, Fonzie would be able to blow the heads-off grouse all the time!

[Mattimoose]

I think there are alot of hunters out there that are really bad shots when it comes to an actual hunting scenario,I dont think grouping shots at a gun range is a hard thing to do with a good rig and quality ammo.But it does not make you an automatic great shot on game.I have shot many deer with a good neck shot because I have confidence in my shooting abilities.There are guys who can take shots that most others would miss or wound the animal with.I believe that 99.9 % of you so called shooters should not take this shot,but there are some guys that can shoot a gopher between the eyes at 500 yards.:lol:

I bet that a lot of guys on here punch paper, but one really must practice shooting from your hind legs. We must assume however that if they are on this site, they seek to learn something so we can't discourage others by name calling and generalization. It's called hunt BC too, so I hope I haven't been mislead by a sight that should be named Hypothetical shooting sports and egotists.com.

[Mattimoose]

Onesock- Why do you think they call it a "Texas" Heart Shot?? That's because it's a big kill zone. I agree that it wastes more meat than I like. That's why I said in an earlier post that I won't do it again on a meat buck. I have a friend that says it's his preferred shot(not mine) for sheep. Big target and they go down where they were standing. He's been in on lots of kills and says it works everytime.

SSS
Bears like to eat sheep from the ass forward to. Maybe it is the way to go. Who knows better than bears?

[bigwhiteys]

I have had a forty inch ram at 75 yards on a trot running straight away from me, for some reason that I don't know to this day I did not take the texas heart shot, rather I went for a head shot..... and it worked

One of my dads hunting partners did the same thing on a stone sheep hunt... He had spotted a ram put the stalk on and ended up spooking it... As it was running over a hump 100 yards away or so he shot it in the back of the head...

That ram went down (39 1/2") and then the hawg (42") came out of a small knole and ran right on by him... within 20 yards! Tough Luck he already had a ram down! Not a shot I would ever take on a sheep or any animal for that matter.

Patience has always presented an excellent broadside shooting opportunity for me.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

[wetcoaster]

Bears like to eat sheep from the ass forward to. Maybe it is the way to go. Who knows better than bears?

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Oh well that seals the deal I'm sold!:lol:

[huntwriter]

"...It's called hunt BC too, so I hope I haven't been mislead by a sight that should be named Hypothetical shooting sports and egotists.com..."

I like that statement.:lol:

[BigD]

Ok, time to start this all over again, but....... I was jus drivin through a local indian reserve where there was a bunch of trucks pulled over on the side of the road. Apparently someone thought it was a good idea to take a shot at the ass of a bull moose from the side of the road, but it ran of and was gone. Its -15, and the animal ran up the hill and is gone to where? Good idea

[Gateholio]

Ok, time to start this all over again, but....... I was jus drivin through a local indian reserve where there was a bunch of trucks pulled over on the side of the road. Apparently someone thought it was a good idea to take a shot at the ass of a bull moose from the side of the road, but it ran of and was gone. Its -15, and the animal ran up the hill and is gone to where? Good idea

Poor shooting + improper gear= lost animal.

Good shooting + proper gear = dead aimal.

Too many unknown variables in your tale to let us know if it was a good idea or not.:confused:

[Bow Walker]

Ok, time to start this all over again, but....... I was jus drivin through a local indian reserve where there was a bunch of trucks pulled over on the side of the road. Apparently someone thought it was a good idea to take a shot at the ass of a bull moose from the side of the road, but it ran of and was gone. Its -15, and the animal ran up the hill and is gone to where? Good idea
They must like their meat "gamey"!! Two words here - DON'T!

Anyone that takes that type of low percentage shot should have someone "tamp their butt" - hard!!:mad: :eek: :mad:

As always - JMHO.

[nykoma]

no way , thats not a fair shot to take:lol:

[eagleye]

Interesting Thread! The THS is a very effective shot, if it is executed correctly. While It is not my first choice, I would and have taken it on occasion. I once shot an cow elk in the bung hole as she headed away. She went exactly 20 yards after the shot and was pretty well dead when I got to her. I recovered the Partition from under the skin on her neck. Meat loss, maybe 3-4 lbs, gut shot...NO. Meat was great! Have taken a couple of blackies with this shot and a decent muley that was already hit by a partner in the lower front leg. In no case did an animal go any distance, and in every case meat loss was not an issue. Lucky? maybe, I am not really a trophy hunter, but have shot a lot of game in my close to 50 years of hunting, and I think that the passionate responses we see here are fired by personal feelings more than practical experience. Regards, Eagleye.

[GoatGuy]

The shot works, used it when having to dispatch black bears with a defender but it's more of a last chance shot. I wouldn't use it unless needed.

Have had two clients who had to use it as a backup shots. One was on a pretty big grizz and the bullet was retrieved out of the right front shoulder. Worked really well and saved me a lot of stress!

Obviously making the first shot count is ideal, but it doesn't always work.

[youngfellla]

As others have stated, not a shot of choice but it works. I've taken the THS on a deer and a black bear with my 340 WBY/225 TSX. Both were dead before they hit the ground.

I've also taken frontal shots on deer with my 7 Mag/160 partition and had bullets exit out the ass. You still end up with a messy job to do. I agree with Gatehouse on this one. If you've got a bullet/cartridge combo capable of penetrating a deer lengthwise, and you're confident in your ability, the ol' Texas Ringer will get the job done.

[Mattimoose]

I still can't say I'd never take-itas a second or 3rd, but not a first.