LEH delay a sign of bigger problems in wildlife mgt in BC

[Ltbullken]

I know we are all frustrated with the LEH delay. We were supposed to get the draw in June as a result of submitting the cards earlier than in times past. So here it is creeping back into July so people are getting the results much like we did before.

This is a symptom of where wildlife management is in BC. There is a good article in the current issue of BC Outdoors Hunting entitled 'Central BC's Missing Moose.' Big problems with the moose population across BC with various factors in each area but a common denominator is that lack of funding for field study and research and FW staff/biologists to even do the work. So when there are problems, hunting is restricted, which is not always the cause or the fix to the problem, and we get pressure on LEH with fewer opportunities, authorizations and even more LEH applicants along with reduced odds.

We need to advocate better with the decision makers about the needs of wildlife management and hunting in BC. This means sending letters to, meeting with and inviting MLA's, the Minister, etc., to game dinners and Fish & Game Club functions to tell them our concerns. I am already a member of the BCWF myself. When you engage the decision makers, you can begin to get better results. The government could always decide that targetting LEH draw timing may placate BC hunters but we cannot allow ourselves to be complacent just because we might get LEH results sooner. This is about the health of wildlife management in BC, NOT just about getting LEH results in a timely matter. We got to take some ownership in this fellow HBC'ers!

[Ltbullken]

And having said that... LEH draw is out!!

[Confused]

I know we are all frustrated with the LEH delay. We were supposed to get the draw in June as a result of submitting the cards earlier than in times past. So here it is creeping back into July so people are getting the results much like we did before.

This is a symptom of where wildlife management is in BC. There is a good article in the current issue of BC Outdoors Hunting entitled 'Central BC's Missing Moose.' Big problems with the moose population across BC with various factors in each area but a common denominator is that lack of funding for field study and research and FW staff/biologists to even do the work. So when there are problems, hunting is restricted, which is not always the cause or the fix to the problem, and we get pressure on LEH with fewer opportunities, authorizations and even more LEH applicants along with reduced odds.

We need to advocate better with the decision makers about the needs of wildlife management and hunting in BC. This means sending letters to, meeting with and inviting MLA's, the Minister, etc., to game dinners and Fish & Game Club functions to tell them our concerns. I am already a member of the BCWF myself. When you engage the decicion makers, you can begin to get better results. The government could always decide that targetting LEH draw timing may placate BC hunters but we cannot allow ourselves to be complacent just because we might get LEH results sooner. This is about the health of wildlife management in BC, NOT just about getting LEH results in a timely matter. We got to take some ownership in this fellow HBC'ers!

One big problem with your plan, you make the assumption that mlas and ministers are the 'decision makers", nothing could be further from the truth. About the the only decision mlas make in regards to fish and wildife is to ingnore it, and sometimes that is not even on purpose.

[Ltbullken]

Advocacy needs to include continual and broad engagement, local to provincial levels; FW managers to MLA's to Minister to Premier. And it is non-stop, looking for public venues to voice concerns.

[aggiehunter]

no leh...who cares...what a place to live...if people are really worried about Wildlife Management there better be some pressure on gov't to insist that FN's are put on the same quota as us....as far as missing moose and mulies...they start dissappearing just before the rifle season....check out some of the uncontrolled camps killing everything before you get there....no joke.

[boxhitch]

.........We need to advocate better with the decision makers about the needs of wildlife management and hunting in BC. This means sending letters to, meeting with and inviting MLA's, the Minister, etc., to game dinners and Fish & Game Club functions to tell them our concerns. I am already a member of the BCWF myself. When you engage the decicion makers, you can begin to get better results. The government could always decide that targetting LEH draw timing may placate BC hunters but we cannot allow ourselves to be complacent just because we might get LEH results sooner. This is about the health of wildlife management in BC, NOT just about getting LEH results in a timely matter. We got to take some ownership in this fellow HBC'ers!Keeping this on track.............Good post L , thats about as clear and concise as can be. We need more folk to try and focus on this.

[bridger]

Right to the point. Very good post.

[fowl language]

LT you are right on the money. so who here are going to step up and organize hbc support for this,do you think. I would be willing to take all the region 2 info to the bcwf board meeting and beyond.....dale

[NoLimit99]

Limited entry is now out, check it here

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/leh.html#Status

[gcreek]

The moose situation has been studied to death in this area dating back to the mid 80's. The decision makers have made more than a few F-ups and the easiest way out is ask for more study funding.

I know this is another of my negative type posts but it's true. When you open up year round access and do nothing about predators what should one expect the moose population to do? Double every year??

[BearSupreme]

I remember hearing on the CBC radio about the caribou populations in northern Alberta. The environmentalist was saying "Millions of dollars every year goes into studying caribou and their habitats, but the government just doesnt seem to use this data." This may be a common theme in species populations as well. You have one part of the government funding these studies, but does not work with the part that is actually reporting on the final numbers. It seems to be too much to ask government to work this medial sh!t out..

[GoatGuy]

Ltbullken, totally agree with you - there are some big picture problems with the way we manage wildlife in BC.

[hunter1947]

I was informed the other day that why it took longer for the draw date this year that there were 160 thousand applicants last year compared to 260 thousand applicants handed in to the wildlife branch on Jutland Rd Victoria BC and there are sayings the the recruitment is down in number ??? makes a person wonder...

[GoatGuy]

I was informed the other day that why it took longer for the draw date this year that there were 160 thousand applicants last year compared to 260 thousand applicants handed in to the wildlife branch on Jutland Rd Victoria BC and there are sayings the the recruitment is down in number ??? makes a person wonder...

There were 172,973 applicants this year - the highest on record!!!!!!!

Whoever told you things were down has their head buried in a special spot......... maybe from Cranbrook? hahaha. Wouldn't give this person much credibility in the future.

Watch out for rumours in the Crazybrook area - most are made up, the others are lies. Don't believe anything you hear.

[Viper]

I remember hearing on the CBC radio about the caribou populations in northern Alberta. The environmentalist was saying "Millions of dollars every year goes into studying caribou and their habitats, but the government just doesnt seem to use this data." This may be a common theme in species populations as well. You have one part of the government funding these studies, but does not work with the part that is actually reporting on the final numbers. It seems to be too much to ask government to work this medial sh!t out..
I have worked for the federal, provincial and municipal govts and they are all the same. They love to make work for consultants who are either retired govt workers or they are related to someone in the govt. I have rarely seen where a study had been conducted and the data has actually been used after the first study. Usually the data will sit on someones desk until they move to another dept and the study dies there until the new person says we should do a study on moose. The politicians do not call the shots. The bureaucrats run the show and our elected officials sign off not knowing what the hell they are signing. This is a good example of the definition of insanity.

[hunter1947]

There were 172,973 applicants this year - the highest on record!!!!!!!

Whoever told you things were down has their head buried in a special spot......... maybe from Cranbrook? hahaha. Wouldn't give this person much credibility in the future.

Watch out for rumours in the Crazybrook area - most are made up, the others are lies. Don't believe anything you hear.

This informer told me he knows this person that does the draws ,,Goatguy have you got any prof of the number of applicants handed in for 2013 ,,would like to see for myself to clear the air I know I don't..

[GoatGuy]

I have worked for the federal, provincial and municipal govts and they are all the same. They love to make work for consultants who are either retired govt workers or they are related to someone in the govt. I have rarely seen where a study had been conducted and the data has actually been used after the first study. Usually the data will sit on someones desk until they move to another dept and the study dies there until the new person says we should do a study on moose. The politicians do not call the shots. The bureaucrats run the show and our elected officials sign off not knowing what the hell they are signing. This is a good example of the definition of insanity.

Maybe in the industry you work in, but not on the wildlife and fish management side. The politicians are the ones who sign off and the treasury board is the one who allocates funding.

Quick example: the fish and wildlife branch (bureaucracy) has been recommending predator management for caribou recovery for over 20 years..... still no predator management.

[GoatGuy]

This informer told me he knows this person that does the draws ,,Goatguy have you got any prof of the number of applicants handed in for 2013 ,,would like to see for myself to clear the air I know I don't..

The informer is a BSer. Got to be someone from Crazybrook.

I'm sure there will be a write-up in the coming weeks, as there is every other year, on number of applicants, awarded authorizations etc. Will be sure to put it up on here once its out.

[gcreek]

Quick example: the fish and wildlife branch (bureaucracy) has been recommending predator management for caribou recovery for over 20 years..... still no predator management.

Have you got that in print?

[Viper]

Maybe in the industry you work in, but not on the wildlife and fish management side. The politicians are the ones who sign off and the treasury board is the one who allocates funding.

Quick example: the fish and wildlife branch (bureaucracy) has been recommending predator management for caribou recovery for over 20 years..... still no predator management.
Most bureaucrats' mission statement is "when in doubt and this might come back to bite you in the butt is, pass the buck" and that usually means down the food chain not up. A lot of decisions made by them do not require ministerial approval and this issue may be one of them. I have seen it many times and what the public sees is not the same.

[Wild one]

Not enough of the money from tags, licenses, ect are going back into wildlife management/hunting making the wildlife management sector under funded. In my opinion too many decisions when it comes to managing wildlife are made do to pressure from interest groups and not science.

In many cases it seems those in the MOE have there hands tied do to bureaucracy making it difficult to address issues and when they try to it can take along time before they get the go ahead to work on the issues they see. It seems like some of these guys need to fill out a proposal 3-6 months in advance just to take a bathroom break.

In my opinion how the money brought in from hunting is spent and the bureaucracy Bio's deal with in BC needs to be revised

[boxhitch]

This informer told me he knows this person that does the draws ,,Goatguy have you got any prof of the number of applicants handed in for 2013 ,,would like to see for myself to clear the air I know I don't..Draw info was sent out to most member clubs , check with your executive.

[Ltbullken]

There were 172,973 applicants this year - the highest on record!!!!!!!

Whoever told you things were down has their head buried in a special spot......... maybe from Cranbrook? hahaha. Wouldn't give this person much credibility in the future.

Watch out for rumours in the Crazybrook area - most are made up, the others are lies. Don't believe anything you hear.

They don't like all the LM hunters taking 'their' LEH tags! :P

[dhog]

The Liberals under Gordan Campbell cut millions of dollars out of MOE funding to the piont that the University of Calgary is now funding and operating the creel and stocking surveys in the 100 mile area

[GoatGuy]

Have you got that in print?

Sat in on the meetings, done the presentations, everybody knows it's political.

Don't get a copy of the briefing notes mind you.

[GoatGuy]

The Liberals under Gordan Campbell cut millions of dollars out of MOE funding to the piont that the University of Calgary is now funding and operating the creel and stocking surveys in the 100 mile area

Incorrect........................

Do you own research - freshwater fisheries society funding

[GoatGuy]

Most bureaucrats' mission statement is "when in doubt and this might come back to bite you in the butt is, pass the buck" and that usually means down the food chain not up. A lot of decisions made by them do not require ministerial approval and this issue may be one of them. I have seen it many times and what the public sees is not the same.

There are a few in the fish and wildlife branch, but not that many. Most of the people involved in fish and wildlife and there because they care...... little different than other ministries

[gcreek]

Sat in on the meetings, done the presentations, everybody knows it's political.

Don't get a copy of the briefing notes mind you.

I agree that a portion (definately not all) of the predator issue is political but I would still like to see a written reccomendation to govt. by a wildlife manager regarding predator reduction.

I happen to be "in the loop" a bit myself.

[GoatGuy]

I agree that a portion (definately not all) of the predator issue is political but I would still like to see a written reccomendation to govt. by a wildlife manager regarding predator reduction.

I happen to be "in the loop" a bit myself.
Search mountain caribou recovery in bc. Predator management is in it. There's also a caribou recovery committee which is run by govt and predator reduction has been a reccomendation to minister for years

[gcreek]

Search mountain caribou recovery in bc. Predator management is in it. There's also a caribou recovery committee which is run by govt and predator reduction has been a reccomendation to minister for years

You are right but the ideas were spaying and neutering at a cost to the taxpayer of $20,000 + - per wolf or reduction of other food species to make the wolves "go away". These experiments were designed and reccomended by wildlife managers.

The projects were failures.

[boxhitch]

Those are a few of the many suggestions I bet , and the ones that were adopted for trials because they were less offensive to those with sensitivities.
I say put a collar on all the aphas and hand out the frequencies to interested hunters.

[Viper]

There are a few in the fish and wildlife branch, but not that many. Most of the people involved in fish and wildlife and there because they care...... little different than other ministries
I agree they do care at the field level. I'm sure most DFO biologists really care about their stewardship but look how F'd up DFO is.

[Ltbullken]

Where it makes sense, (predators are not the problem in all instances) maybe local fish & game clubs can hold a predator contest throughout a season. Win a quad, predator rifle, GC to an outdoor shop, etc. I've heard of big buck contests before but maybe it's time to change the focus a bit. Need to get creative about this. Also, I think trappers can be used quiet effectively in key areas where the wolf pack(s) are a concern. Can local FW managers encourage trappers to focus on certain areas through regs, etc.? They might already do that - I am not very knowledgable about the trapping business. These ideas might be political, but if done within the law, what's the comeback? How about a rebated hunting license cost if a hunter produces a wolf kill to the local CO office (not likely to happen...).

I also believe all hunters, as many as possible, should join their local fish and game clubs and BCWF (BCWF has a good benefits too btw - like backcountry insurance) and get involved and hold dinners and functions and invite the local political leadership or go visit their offices regularly with our concerns. We also need to talk amongst ourselves about who is who and what their response is so we know the terrain, who's supportive and who's anti-h.

More rambling...

[gcreek]

Where it makes sense, (predators are not the problem in all instances) maybe local fish & game clubs can hold a predator contest throughout a season. Win a quad, predator rifle, GC to an outdoor shop, etc. I've heard of big buck contests before but maybe it's time to change the focus a bit. Need to get creative about this. Also, I think trappers can be used quiet effectively in key areas where the wolf pack(s) are a concern. Can local FW managers encourage trappers to focus on certain areas through regs, etc.? They might already do that - I am not very knowledgable about the trapping business. These ideas might be political, but if done within the law, what's the comeback? How about a rebated hunting license cost if a hunter produces a wolf kill to the local CO office (not likely to happen...).

I also believe all hunters, as many as possible, should join their local fish and game clubs and BCWF (BCWF has a good benefits too btw - like backcountry insurance) and get involved and hold dinners and functions and invite the local political leadership or go visit their offices regularly with our concerns. We also need to talk amongst ourselves about who is who and what their response is so we know the terrain, who's supportive and who's anti-h.

More rambling...


There has been quite a bit of trapper incentive and education over the past 4 years. Not everyone is capable of removing complete packs and removing one or two of the dominant members creates fragmentation of packs which results in more wolves breeding and eventually more pups. Kind of a vicious circle even though intentions are good.

There have been several wolf competitions for most, biggest etc. Williams Lake and the Peace come to mind. Several Regional Districts in the Peace had a $500 bounty/assisstance placed on wolves last winter that was quite effective although some of the wolves may have had a different postal code than they were supposed to.

Every one counts but we need to take out packs, individuals don't have much effect on desired results.

[GoatGuy]

I agree they do care at the field level. I'm sure most DFO biologists really care about their stewardship but look how F'd up DFO is.

The politicians are the ones who have directed all the cuts at DFO and also kept reports `draft`so they can`t be accessed through freedom of information.

People need to get its the politicians that control the decisions and more importantly how many biologists we have and how much funding they get.

If fish and wildlife management was a political priority it would get funded - just a matter of having hunters and anglers contact their MLA.

[GoatGuy]

There has been quite a bit of trapper incentive and education over the past 4 years. Not everyone is capable of removing complete packs and removing one or two of the dominant members creates fragmentation of packs which results in more wolves breeding and eventually more pups. Kind of a vicious circle even though intentions are good.

There have been several wolf competitions for most, biggest etc. Williams Lake and the Peace come to mind. Several Regional Districts in the Peace had a $500 bounty/assisstance placed on wolves last winter that was quite effective although some of the wolves may have had a different postal code than they were supposed to.

Every one counts but we need to take out packs, individuals don't have much effect on desired results.

Poison and helicopters is the only way to do that and it`s the minister that signs off on the wolf management policy...........

[GoatGuy]

Where it makes sense, (predators are not the problem in all instances) maybe local fish & game clubs can hold a predator contest throughout a season. Win a quad, predator rifle, GC to an outdoor shop, etc. I've heard of big buck contests before but maybe it's time to change the focus a bit. Need to get creative about this. Also, I think trappers can be used quiet effectively in key areas where the wolf pack(s) are a concern. Can local FW managers encourage trappers to focus on certain areas through regs, etc.? They might already do that - I am not very knowledgable about the trapping business. These ideas might be political, but if done within the law, what's the comeback? How about a rebated hunting license cost if a hunter produces a wolf kill to the local CO office (not likely to happen...).

I also believe all hunters, as many as possible, should join their local fish and game clubs and BCWF (BCWF has a good benefits too btw - like backcountry insurance) and get involved and hold dinners and functions and invite the local political leadership or go visit their offices regularly with our concerns. We also need to talk amongst ourselves about who is who and what their response is so we know the terrain, who's supportive and who's anti-h.

More rambling...

You got er man......

[Wild one]

There has been quite a bit of trapper incentive and education over the past 4 years. Not everyone is capable of removing complete packs and removing one or two of the dominant members creates fragmentation of packs which results in more wolves breeding and eventually more pups. Kind of a vicious circle even though intentions are good.

There have been several wolf competitions for most, biggest etc. Williams Lake and the Peace come to mind. Several Regional Districts in the Peace had a $500 bounty/assisstance placed on wolves last winter that was quite effective although some of the wolves may have had a different postal code than they were supposed to.

Every one counts but we need to take out packs, individuals don't have much effect on desired results.


Only some regions have an incentive for wolf trappers most do not.

Biggest issue is lack of trapline management by the govt leaving many traplines in limbo and trappers being unable to purchase and work them.

Some will say trapping is not effective on managing wolves but the reality is in BC our trapline system has been a real mess since the late 80's so data on this is poor. There are a lot more inactive lines in BC then the govt records show as the records are rarely up to date. Some regions are improving but at a snails pace

This being said trapping as a management tool depends on the trappers you have in the area do to there skill level and willingness to target wolves

[one-shot-wonder]

Where it makes sense, (predators are not the problem in all instances) maybe local fish & game clubs can hold a predator contest throughout a season. Win a quad, predator rifle, GC to an outdoor shop, etc. I've heard of big buck contests before but maybe it's time to change the focus a bit. Need to get creative about this. Also, I think trappers can be used quiet effectively in key areas where the wolf pack(s) are a concern. Can local FW managers encourage trappers to focus on certain areas through regs, etc.? They might already do that - I am not very knowledgable about the trapping business. These ideas might be political, but if done within the law, what's the comeback? How about a rebated hunting license cost if a hunter produces a wolf kill to the local CO office (not likely to happen...).

I also believe all hunters, as many as possible, should join their local fish and game clubs and BCWF (BCWF has a good benefits too btw - like backcountry insurance) and get involved and hold dinners and functions and invite the local political leadership or go visit their offices regularly with our concerns. We also need to talk amongst ourselves about who is who and what their response is so we know the terrain, who's supportive and who's anti-h.

More rambling...
I totally agree...... Hunters need to do a better job educating other hunters about the benefits of joining the local club and the movements that take place when there is engadgetgement. Strength in numbers! We all have buddies and hunters we cross paths with frequently, that need to start "getting it"...... How does that happen, simple educate the layman and if they are 1/10th as passionate as we are they will by into the program. Not all hunters can and will talk to their MLA, but they can spread the word to their network of outdoorsman and like wildfire it can start to really cover ground and gain traction.

Plant a seed today!!