Closure of GOS and Youth Senior Anterless Elk

[The Hermit]

Closure of the general open seasons and youth/senior antlerless elk seasons in the South Trench of the Kootenay Region. Submitted on June 20th 2013

Proposal Number:
947


Status:
Information


Region:
Region 4 - Kootenay



Regulation Type:
General Open Season


Species:
Antlerless Elk


Closing Date:
Jul 12, 2013


Subject:
Closure of the general open seasons and youth/senior antlerless elk seasons in the South Trench of the Kootenay Region.



Current Regulations:
General Open Season for antlerless elk in Zone X of 4-3 September 20 – September 30
Senior/youth season for antlerless elk in Zone X of 4-3 September 10 – September 14
Senior/youth season for antlerless elk in Zone X of 4-26 September 10 – September 19



Proposed Regulations:
Close the seasons listed above.



Rationale:
The Kootenay Elk Management Plan (http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/kootenay/emp/emp.htm) (2010 – 2014) recommends a 30% reduction in the South Trench elk population over 3 – 5 years. Results from our winter 2012-13 inventory indicate that the population declined 35% between 2008 and 2013. A reduction in harvest is needed to avoid continued population declines. The Kootenay Elk Management Plan (http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/kootenay/emp/emp.htm)was developed with extensive input from all interest groups.
Population data:
A stratified random block survey from Canal Flats to the USA border was completed in January 2013. The final elk estimate for the South Trench was 7509 elk (90% Confidence interval of 6829 – 8189). The 2008 estimate for the South Trench was 11,580 suggesting the population is down 35%. The Kootenay Elk Management Plan recommends a 30% reduction from the 2008 estimate; hence the objective of the plan has been achieved. Calf ratios were 27 calves: 100 cows and bull ratios were 24 bulls: 100 cows.
Monitoring of radio-collared cow elk indicates that other sources of mortality (road, rail, unregulated hunting, and predation) are high, and that the population would likely continue to decline if the General Open Seasons are in place in 2013.
Harvest data:
Harvest statistics show that the South Trench cow harvest increased in the mid 2000s along with progressively more liberal seasons. The cow harvest in 2007-11 surpassed historic highs, the calf harvest was relatively small in the 2000s compared to historic levels. However cow kill has a much greater impact on population trends than calf kill. Low predator populations in the 1980s and early 1990s likely enabled high calf harvest rates with little effect on the population. Winter calf:cow ratios were higher in the 1980s/early 1990s compared to the 2000s, despite a much higher fall harvest on calves.



Additional Information:
Kootenay Elk Management Plan (http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/kootenay/emp/emp.htm)






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[Mr. Dean]

Low predator populations in the 1980s and early 1990s likely enabled high calf harvest rates with little effect on the population. Winter calf:cow ratios were higher in the 1980s/early 1990s compared to the 2000s, despite a much higher fall harvest on calves.Is it safe to translate that this reduction in hunter activity translates into as much affect as a grain of sand in a load of gravel?

[s0ylentgreen]

my feelings are deeply hurt....
i was actually planning a trip to do that hunt with my dad...

[300H&H]

I wonder if this will also be a "bow season" closure ?

[Everett]

So far its only a proposal who knows if it will get approval.

[coach]

So far its only a proposal who knows if it will get approval.

Who's proposal was it?

[Everett]

Who's proposal was it?

That I do not know.

[300H&H]

Who's proposal was it?

Could it be MOE or local clubs who put forth the recommendations to the MOE ?

Or BCWF ?

[Everett]

Well I just did a search through the ministry website and I can't find the proposal the regulations still show the season being open. Anyone have a link to the actual proposal they usually show who the sponsor is.

[s0ylentgreen]

dont those proposals almost always go thru?

[f350ps]

Excellent news, better than decimating them like years ago, takes a long time to recover! I'd prefer that than restrictions on the Bull seasons. K

[Everett]

Excellent news, better than decimating them like years ago, takes a long time to recover! I'd prefer that than restrictions on the Bull seasons. K

Trust me there is no shortage of ELK.

[f350ps]

Trust me there is no shortage of ELK.
That's what the bio's in the 80's were saying too and we all know how well that turned out, cow draws out the ying yang until they were almost finished! K

[Everett]

That's what the bio's in the 80's were saying too and we all know how well that turned out, cow draws out the ying yang until they were almost finished! K

Yea two of the biggest winters ever and too many Elk for the available feed on the winter range. Skiing was awesome those years waste deep powder every day in December 1996.

[rocksteady]

Absolutely stupid plan (GOS) To start with... How do you control/analyze data from an unsupervised harvest?

Even though we all hate it, LEH would have maintained more control of harvests...

Just sayin...

[Everett]

Absolutely stupid plan (GOS) To start with... How do you control/analyze data from an unsupervised harvest?

Even though we all hate it, LEH would have maintained more control of harvests...

Just sayin...

Your right they have no idea how many Elk have been shot in the last 3 years compulsory inspection or at least reporting would have given them an idea of how many Elk were hitting the dirt.

[Gateholio]

Looks like a proposal brought to the BCWF region from a club. Absent for some reason is whom is making the proposal.

[J_T]

The proposal was brought forward by the regional bio after surveys confirm they have achieved population reduction objectives.

Moving to LEH is a model that manages hunters, limits hunters but does control harvest numbers. Wouldn't it be preferable to manage population numbers in a reduced harvest model and maximize hunter participation? Part of the objective was to keep elk out of the fields. Without hunter harassment (hunting) this objective is compromised.

Shifting the closure of GOS to an archery season would maintain opportunity and eliminate the lottery game.

[J_T]

I wonder if this will also be a "bow season" closure ?
A bow season closure is not the proposal.

[aggiehunter]

I think it's quite simply wonderfull that a trained and "applied" biologist....manages wildlife....we all saw it happen...so let them do the work.

[WKCotts]

Anyone who knows they're history knows the south trench population can be vulnerable. If those numbers are accurate, I would 100% support that proposal. Revisit it again after a year or two and a few more surveys.

[Everett]

Just heard tonight from a buddy who has ears in the ministry and he was told the counts were up this year not down.

[rocksteady]

I heard opposite Ev.

In the past they were saying 27k in the trench, this year 11k...

Who knows what the true number is...

[WKCotts]

I heard opposite Ev.

In the past they were saying 27k in the trench, this year 11k...

Who knows what the true number is...

You live there. What are you seeing compared with a few years ago?

[Everett]

I heard opposite Ev.

In the past they were saying 27k in the trench, this year 11k...

Who knows what the true number is...

Your right who knows how many Elk there are, my supposed source is one of the ministry counters. Mike in your travels have you noticed any difference in Elk numbers? Personally my observation are plenty of Elk but I have not been out as much as normal this year.
Well if 16,000 Elk disappeared we probably would see the signs I have seen no sign of any winter kill and it was a very mild winter at valley bottom.

[rocksteady]

I see a lot less in hunting season. The herds of 30\40\50 cows with a big bull and a couple of satellites are long gone.

Biggest herd I saw last season was maybe a dozen..

Plus, with the incredible pressure put on the herds by the hopeful Hunters coming here for 10 days, to hopefully shoot a cow or calf, the elk were always moving and went nocturnal very quick...

[rocksteady]

Even during the middle of winter, on the critical winter range babitats I was not seeing the 500 elk in a bunch that I used to see...

Its all anecdotal evidence though, depends on the day, time of day, location, temerature, wind, you name it...

[Everett]

I too only saw a couple large herds this year mayby 200 max at one time but with the lack of snow in the timber the sight ability factor would be much lower this year than the last several years. We had pretty much no snow for 6 weeks in the trench this winter and relatively warm temperatures at the same time which the exact time they did the count.
The one thing I am an expert on is snow fall I track every cm of the white stuff.

[boxhitch]

A stratified random block survey from Canal Flats to the USA border was completed in January 2013. The final elk estimate for the South Trench was 7509 elk (90% Confidence interval of 6829 – 8189). The 2008 estimate for the South Trench was 11,580 suggesting the population is down 35%. That pretty well explains it.

[J_T]

That pretty well explains it.
Yup. Agree. Pretty hard to argue with the science. I spend a lot of time out there and my personal observations would be in line with the ministry surveys.

[Everett]

That pretty well explains it.

2008 was a good snow year and 2013 was a poor snow year that could explain a observed %35 herd drop. I too believe in science but the ministry uses the most micky mouse science available which is why I tend to question things. Personally I hope there numbers are right as the herd was getting to big for the winter range available when we have another big winter like 96/97

[6point]

I see a lot less in hunting season. The herds of 30\40\50 cows with a big bull and a couple of satellites are long gone.

Biggest herd I saw last season was maybe a dozen..

Plus, with the incredible pressure put on the herds by the hopeful Hunters coming here for 10 days, to hopefully shoot a cow or calf, the elk were always moving and went nocturnal very quick...
Yep very true!...and when animals are always being chased and on the move they become stressed, and what happens to animals when they become too stressed...?

[.300WSMImpact!]

Yep very true!...and when animals are always being chased and on the move they become stressed, and what happens to animals when they become too stressed...?

it becomes habitual and they adapt

[Fella]

They start smoking?

[boxhitch]

I too believe in science but the ministry uses the most micky mouse science available which is why I tend to question things.As long as they follow Micky each time , the results will be similar.

With numbers down , winter range should be in better shape , there should be some stellar antler growth coming on.

[J_T]

The targeted reduction was on homesteader elk. The collaring and monitoring, the count surveys established patterns and numbers. There never were 27thousand elk in the trench, but once they got their hands on a number what they knew they needed was a reduction. Thus enhanced targeted seasons in the ag zone. The reduction targets have been met and that is supported by the ongoing surveys and counts.

I think it's wise to be dynamic and creative in the herd management / hunter opportunity. Lets not be afraid to stop and re-consider objectives. There are still lots of elk. Just not as many in the low agricultural lands. Time to head back to the backcountry. The front country fun has waned.

[hunter1947]

The targeted reduction was on homesteader elk. The collaring and monitoring, the count surveys established patterns and numbers. There never were 27thousand elk in the trench, but once they got their hands on a number what they knew they needed was a reduction. Thus enhanced targeted seasons in the ag zone. The reduction targets have been met and that is supported by the ongoing surveys and counts.

I think it's wise to be dynamic and creative in the herd management / hunter opportunity. Lets not be afraid to stop and re-consider objectives. There are still lots of elk. Just not as many in the low agricultural lands. Time to head back to the backcountry. The front country fun has waned.


Well said T_J x2..

[Mr. Dean]

There are still lots of elk. Just not as many in the low agricultural lands. Time to head back to the backcountry. The front country fun has waned.

Then Hunters did their service or was it predators?

[J_T]

Then Hunters did their service or was it predators?Hunters, Predators, Highways, Railways. There are many influences to bringing population numbers down. But certainly the s antlerless GOS was a strong contributing factor. Just great that close monitoring can result in good/quick decisions to shift and adapt to a more sustainable approach over the next period. The numbers in the trench will rise again and then they'll have the background to implement additional seasons again.

[UncleJesse]

This is pretty suckish if they do indeed close it . My dad turned 65 this year and my son turned 10. Was so looking forward to that for them both.

[Elkaholic]

This is pretty suckish if they do indeed close it . My dad turned 65 this year and my son turned 10. Was so looking forward to that for them both.

Its not a matter if they do indeed close it, its closed plain and simple.

[UncleJesse]

Well okay, but what we see on the moe site is a proposal ending on July 12th. Not to say that by the "science" it shouldn't be closed, just saying it ain't in the regs yet and ITS STILL A BUMMER. I really was excited for them both. Its a fine way to introduce a young lad into elk hunting.

[Vader]

It ain't so 'til it's in the regs or a special is put out. Not in either so you're alive for this year. Least not as far as I can find.
A proposal is not a closure.

[Jagermeister]

Good to go. And here I told an acquaitence that it was a done deal.

[bighornbob]

Not in either so you're alive for this year. They have over a month to put out a note saying its closed. Things like this proposal are a pretty much done deal. Only worth while reasons why it should remain open will be looked at. People already booking their holidays wont keep it open.

[Above the Treeline]

Good stuff. The numbers in zone x are down in my experience. I would love to see zone x turned into a pure archery zone, for all species. The East Koots needs some bow only zones, the quality of animals would increase as well.

[GoatGuy]

Good stuff. The numbers in zone x are down in my experience. I would love to see zone x turned into a pure archery zone, for all species. The East Koots needs some bow only zones, the quality of animals would increase as well.

Interesting perspective - what kind of 'quality of animals' would you like to see? How big and how many?

Do you see and pass up a lot of wildlife in the EK every year? Have you harvested a lot of wildlife in the EK with your bow?

[nelsonob1]

I hunted around Jaffery on three different trips last year and encountered a lot of wolf activity and wouldn't be surprised that predation accounted for a large part of that decline. For most of the antlerless rifle and bow only season it was extremely hot and we did not see a lot of elk moving around.

[Mr. Dean]

This is pretty suckish if they do indeed close it . My dad turned 65 this year and my son turned 10. Was so looking forward to that for them both.I don't think so...... IIRC this season was only recently created for thining out the problematic elk that hung out in the farm fields - I fear that preds had more to do with it than we did and if that problem isn't rectified, its all downhill from here.

Thoughts?


Christy Crunch won her seat yesterday and I think its high-time to get the 'Wolf Wheel' squeaking again.

[bforce750]

It will be open in a couple years at the most anyway, they bounce back quick. Go buy yourselves a bow or crossbow and hunt the trench..U will probably have a way better time than general rifle season. Way less hunters, animals aren't nocturnal yet and it doesn't sound like World War II all day.

[bforce750]

And yes the numbers are down very much soo.

[benttip]

cranbrook game dept put me through to a nice lady who sounds like she knew whats up..she said its not a done deal... they are dealing with farmers etc that want it left open..she figures within 2 weeks a decision has to be made..she said the proposal was submitted in january and she cant believe no decision has been made yet..very nice to deal with..

[.300WSMImpact!]

anyone here anything on this??

[J_T]

Yup, the proposal to close the antlerless GOS is on the table. Up for discussion at the Regional Advisory meeting on Aug 18th. Decision (whichever way it goes) will be ratified at the provincial advisory group later I believe. What does it mean for your plans this season? Couldn't tell you.

[sawmill]

Yup, the proposal to close the antlerless GOS is on the table. Up for discussion at the Regional Advisory meeting on Aug 18th. Decision (whichever way it goes) will be ratified at the provincial advisory group later I believe. What does it mean for your plans this season? Couldn't tell you.

Between my old lady and me we are good to get 4 deer.We only need 2 so I don`t care about the cow season.Besides,it`s easier to handle deer than elk.I`m in it for the meat.

[J_T]

Between my old lady and me we are good to get 4 deer.We only need 2 so I don`t care about the cow season.Besides,it`s easier to handle deer than elk.I`m in it for the meat.Well and the truth is, venison is better tasting. The lure for most hunters with elk is bulls, calling them in and getting close. I so hear you on handling and packing.

[bigneily]

Well and the truth is, venison is better tasting. The lure for most hunters with elk is bulls, calling them in and getting close. I so hear you on handling and packing.Not sure what kind of deer you have been eating?, But myself and my family would rather eat elk over deer any day. Although my Saskatchewan deer did taste much better than our B.C deer, Maybe i'm the only one who thinks this tho.

[MadCat]

Well and the truth is, venison is better tasting. The lure for most hunters with elk is bulls, calling them in and getting close. I so hear you on handling and packing.

This is probably the first time I have ever heard someone say that.

[.300WSMImpact!]

This is probably the first time I have ever heard someone say that.

agreed x2!!

[Derp]

Maybe he ate some town deer?

[rocksteady]

Rumour has it, it is sitting on a ministers desk for decision...bios are saying, no season, no season, but ministers don't always listen to bios, so who knows which way this will go

[GoatGuy]

Rumour has it, it is sitting on a ministers desk for decision...bios are saying, no season, no season, but ministers don't always listen to bios, so who knows which way this will go
There is one member of the Ag community creating quite a stir. I'm sure you know who.

[J_T]

Not sure what kind of deer you have been eating?, But myself and my family would rather eat elk over deer any day. Although my Saskatchewan deer did taste much better than our B.C deer, Maybe i'm the only one who thinks this tho.


agreed x2!!


Maybe he ate some town deer? ah aha boys. Maybe I just know how to choose my quarry, manage it and prepare it for consumption. Served immediately off the grill as medium rare you can't beat it. Regarding the town deer, I think about eating them every day they're in my yard.

[UncleJesse]

There is one member of the Ag community creating quite a stir. I'm sure you know who.

Probably the same guy that uses the revenue from the paid hunts on his ranch (oh no, we'll just call it room and board) to pay for his winter in Texas. Having to hand back cash will always make someone pretty passionate about something. :stirthepot:

[Ron.C]

ah aha boys. Maybe I just know how to choose my quarry, manage it and prepare it for consumption. Served immediately off the grill as medium rare you can't beat it. Regarding the town deer, I think about eating them every day they're in my yard.

I love my elk meat but I have to agree with JT, I'd take a tastey boneless mid rare steak from a young whitetail over just about anything else.

[sawmill]

I love my elk meat but I have to agree with JT, I'd take a tastey boneless mid rare steak from a young whitetail over just about anything else.

Yeah,there`s just something about a rutted up bull who has been running,fighting,burning up all his fat and p1ssing all over himself and rolling in mud that makes the meat less than desireable to me.I`ll take a young flat top elk or a white tail anyday.I have all the horns I`ll ever need laying around in the garage.

[sawmill]

By the way,BBQ`d some white tail hamburgers last night.MY GOD they were good!:mrgreen:

[coach]

I love my elk meat but I have to agree with JT, I'd take a tastey boneless mid rare steak from a young whitetail over just about anything else.

Also pretty hard to beat a young mulw deer taken during youth, bow or "any buck" season. :-D