Grizz amo

[SeaScene]

I spend a good part of spring to fall along north coast BC including grizz country. When not hunting season I carry bear spray (firstly) also a sawed off semi auto Browning (by gunsmith legal specs). My loads are ssg slug ssg slug etc. I was recently told that these loads (being lead) are "soft" relative to a grizz hide and many not penetrate enough to stop a charge. Any comments appreciated..

[srupp]

hmmm.. I believe ssg =00 buck?...pellets of a certain size? I would follow G. Sheldons advice as it concerns shotguns , grizzlies and defense..I believe Mr. Sheldons advice was to stick with slugs only...and skip the birdshot...I use slugs only in the 12 G...for defensive purposes..and in my experience slugs work just fine on grizzly hides...

I highly recommend Mr Sheldons book on grizzlies...he is THE expert imo..

steven

[sawmill]

Fishing up in Hazelton I always carried a 12 cut down Mossberg pump.Foggy 5 A.M. on the beach,salmon rolling,grizz tracks on the beach and a bunch of half eaten salmon.It was always loaded,and always within 3 feet of me.I only fired it once and that was at a really stupid 3 year black bear that thought he was all that.One in the gravel 4 feet from his nose cured him.Now he`s a kermodie.And yeah,everybody says it`s too hard to use a shotgun under pressure.It`s not any harder than fumbling bearspray out of the holster,taking off the safety,figuring out which way it shootsOOPS,TOO LATE.Sorry but after hunting bears for 35 years,Im a gun guy.We wild camp.No parks.I`d way rather explain the death of a bear than the death of a Grandkid.

[CraigOC]

I've done a fair amount of research on what type of round is best to defend yourself from a Grizz, and honestly, it seems to be whatever you shoot the best with the least amount of preparation for the shot. It gets down to SD (sectional density) of the round(how deep it penetrates) and slugs are pretty crappy compared to a 45-70, but tell that to Heimo Korth who downed a grizz in the dark with his 12ga slugs. I have a Mossberg 590A1 for a camp gun and load it with slugs, haven't had to use it and don't want to, but I shoot straight with it with no hesitation.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Slugs have a lot more Penetration then the SSG Birdshot as Srupp calls it LOL - maybe the last one can be SSG for if the bears only a few feet away ! :shock::lol: RJ

[sawmill]

I've done a fair amount of research on what type of round is best to defend yourself from a Grizz, and honestly, it seems to be whatever you shoot the best with the least amount of preparation for the shot. It gets down to SD (sectional density) of the round(how deep it penetrates) and slugs are pretty crappy compared to a 45-70, but tell that to Heimo Korth who downed a grizz in the dark with his 12ga slugs. I have a Mossberg 590A1 for a camp gun and load it with slugs, haven't had to use it and don't want to, but I shoot straight with it with no hesitation.
Thing I don`t like about slugs is in a panic situation ,shooting slugs ,you are chucking a 3/4 inch piece of lead.It`s pretty hard to hit the spot with one shot and that may very well be the only one you have.Shooting 00 buck you are sending 9 30 cal bullets once.At 15 yards you have a group the size of a basketball.It may not kill him in his tracks but it will sure as hell turn him,with a pump you have a bunch more.Then use slugs,I guess.For initial HOLY F#CK,stick to 00.Trust me,you won`t hardly have time to rack a shell,never mind pick a spot.I wouldn`t lie about something this scary.Been there.

[Tuffcity]

Roughly speaking, the pattern of Buck (00, 000) expands at 1 inch per yard. If you can put all 9, 33 cal, round balls into your basket ball target (15") at 15 yards you are capable of putting a slug into a circle half that size. As distance decreases so does your pattern size. Plus the added advantage of delivering a pile more energy with a 1 ounce piece of lead or copper than little individual balls.

Buck or birdshot does not throw out a magic "wall of death".

If you're running a short barrel shotgun for up close and personal encounters then feed it slugs... and practice a bit. :)

RC

[Sofa King]

good info.
i've been wondering this also.
i was going to get a 45-70 for similar situations, but i have a mossberg already.

[srupp]

hmm may I suggest finding a copy of G .Sheldons book....he really has the experience and authority to speak on this subject....and I don't want to speak on anyone elses behalf....I would send you my copy however someone still has it ..lol
I also remember Mr Sheldons advice on the actual shotgun...to stick with the regular stock not pistol grip..the regular stock is familiar and lines up much better for shot placement, and second shot...if anyone wants the pistol grip for a 1300 defender its yours for free...I also remember the advice..no strap/sling..if you need it for defense it shouldn't be slung on your back....and finally no warning shots...I believe the thought was it might only work once and then jam?? if you decide to self defend..its your decision when and why..what constitutes your personal range and defense decision..then make that first shot count...

cheers
Steven

[Wullfen]

Gary Sheldon's books are definitely a great resource. I always load slugs in the 12 gauge for bear defense, but I find it most usefull to practice taking snap shots at the range, different distances and stances. Muscle memory can go a long way in a tense situation.

[bearheart]

hmm may I suggest finding a copy of G .Sheldons book....he really has the experience and authority to speak on this subject....and I don't want to speak on anyone elses behalf....I would send you my copy however someone still has it ..lol
I also remember Mr Sheldons advice on the actual shotgun...to stick with the regular stock not pistol grip..the regular stock is familiar and lines up much better for shot placement, and second shot...if anyone wants the pistol grip for a 1300 defender its yours for free...I also remember the advice..no strap/sling..if you need it for defense it shouldn't be slung on your back....and finally no warning shots...I believe the thought was it might only work once and then jam?? if you decide to self defend..its your decision when and why..what constitutes your personal range and defense decision..then make that first shot count...

cheers
Steven

Sheldon's book is great, agree with your thoughts, but...I sorta like my Winchester 71 ( or even better Browning clone 71, carbine barrel) 348 Winchester, 250gr Barnes bullet as better up close grizzly problem solver.I have a Browning SRC 1886 in 45-70 that I think would work well, only problem is , those 400gr slugs:shock: hurt the shooter (at least me) too much to practice with, just my 2 cents.

[Farmer001]

Yup read Gary's books, would not recommend reading before bedtime but definitely good books and solid advice. Practice with a few slugs, and try to put thru with a bit of speed and accuracy. Puts a few things in perspective, especially when your high priced shotgun jams.:evil: Best thing in bear country is to bring someone that you know you can beat in a foot race.:-D

[Salty]

Loose the ssg very bad plan. Slugs only.

[Wade]

Loose the ssg very bad plan. Slugs only.
When that big angry grizz is coming your way, it doesn't matter what you use as long as you save the last shot for your self:) Right Salty:-D

[longstonec]

3" slugs from a regular stocked shortish barrel 12 gauge.

If you can hit a one gallon milk jug flying at you with a pistol grip shot gun then carry a pistol grip shot gun.

[srupp]

hmmm when you use a pistol grip on shotgun, different siting procedure, and when racking another one in you tend to bring it way from where it should stayand pum ping it skew the barrel to one side...while the regular stock stays tucked to shoulder..ready for thatb next shot the long alighnment helping put all shots on target..

[xcaribooer]

I also agree that Mr Sheldon really knows what he is talking about. He says slugs out of a rem 870 police are the most reliable source of defence. However he also stresses that you NEED TO PRACTICE IN A SIMULATED PANIC SITUATION to become proficient.In his seminars they rig up a "plywood grizz" on a closeline setup and one person pulls the line FAST making the grizz charge you while you try and get a kill shot away. I am thinking maybe a 00buck in the chamber to first get the bears attention then follow up with 3" slugs in the tube might be a good bet. I am not sure about all the ssg stuff, it wont matter if you jam your gun and cant get a shot away. I think it would be more important to become fast with your gun than what you shoot.

[Tuffcity]

SSG= 31 cal
00Buck= 33 cal

Why you would want to shot a bear with either just to "get the bears attention" is beyond me. :)

[Philcott]

What book would you suggest first?

Bear Encounter Survival Guide or Bear Attacks- The Deadly Truth?

[xcaribooer]

SSG= 31 cal
00Buck= 33 cal

Why you would want to shot a bear with either just to "get the bears attention" is beyond me. :) just to clarify- by "get his attention" I meant if a charge is for sure happening you might be better with oo for the first shot(better chance of a hit to slow him down) then follow up with slugs if he keeps coming . I would never suggest shooting anything without good reason

[xcaribooer]

I would read all three in the order that he wrote them

[SeaScene]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PExlT-5VU-Y

This is a very informative video and should get some comments about the "statistics" quoted near the end where bear spray was more effective in actual bear attack situations... very interesting comment here with no injuries or deaths with spray but yes with a gun?? . They also show field simulations. A grizz can move at 44 feet per second (video) and one piece of good advice is that in thick cover or you cannot get a good visual of your step is to have your bear spray out and ready (i would say also applies to a gun). This is a pic of the gun i use 34" from stock to end barrel.

[SeaScene]

...above post. Pic did not load got an error message in the upload box ??

[riflebuilder]

I had a good friend who was a problem wildlife officer for Alberta Fish and Game. He always loaded his up with 3 slugs 2 Buckshot and then bird shot. His rational was if the slugs and buck shot didn't put the bear down he would shot them in the face with the birdshot and then have time to reload more slugs. My only experince with haveing to stop a charging grizzly was with a 270 Win. It was a nice bear and died in its tracks with one shot (should of bought a lottery ticket). Alll the game wardens said to me was good shot and I never let them get that close. It was 15' from where I was standing to where I shot it and only 10' where it pilled up.

[Foxton Gundogs]

hmmm.. I believe ssg =00 buck?...pellets of a certain size? I would follow G. Sheldons advice as it concerns shotguns , grizzlies and defense..I believe Mr. Sheldons advice was to stick with slugs only...and skip the birdshot...I use slugs only in the 12 G...for defensive purposes..and in my experience slugs work just fine on grizzly hides...

I highly recommend Mr Sheldons book on grizzlies...he is THE expert imo..

steven

BINGO......Look no further.

[xcaribooer]

I wonder how GS would rate the Marlin 1985GBL in 45-70? I think facing a charging bear with 6 rounds of 300gr 45-70 in a quick lever rifle should rate pretty high..

[rcar]

Hornaday has a new 12 and 20ga slug design that is meant to penetrate and retain 95%. Look up Monoflex slug and you should find it. I have not used it but the thought and design seem pretty solid to me.

Personally I use a pistol grip, shortened barrel 12ga. for defense. It is great inside a tent because it is short enough to be able to swing it around in tight spaces if needed. Inside the tent for the night I load it with 2 rounds of 00 and 3 slugs. Around camp or at a kill site, I load only slugs.