Points On Mule Deer.

[hunter1947]

I was thinking last night about the points on a mule deer antlers the regs say a legal mule deer to shoot in the EK are 4 points above the base points my question is what if there are 3 measurable points at the base of the set of antlers say they are over an inch long and there are only 3 points above the lower gard are these still considered part of the lower point and you can't count them as points ??? or say there is a legal point that is above the lower gard and it is over an inch long and there are 3 more points above this side sticker can you count this sticker as four above the lower gard or are all measurable points considered the lower gard and can't count these points ???..

[kennyj]

The regs say 4 point mule deer is ''any buck having 4 tines, excluding the brow tine on one antler''
So I see it that a buck has only one brow tine, so any other tines count in the point count. It doesn't say points have to be above the brow tines. Hey Wayne, you're thinking about that 3 on top with the knarly bases your buddy has eh?
kenny

[hunter1947]

The regs say 4 point mule deer is ''any buck having 4 tines, excluding the brow tine on one antler''
So I see it that a buck has only one brow tine, so any other tines count in the point count. It doesn't say points have to be above the brow tines. Hey Wayne, you're thinking about that 3 on top with the knarly bases your buddy has eh?
kenny


Yes Kenny you got that right was thinking about that set of sheds he found ,,good guess..

[.300WSMImpact!]

The regs say 4 point mule deer is ''any buck having 4 tines, excluding the brow tine on one antler''
So I see it that a buck has only one brow tine, so any other tines count in the point count. It doesn't say points have to be above the brow tines. Hey Wayne, you're thinking about that 3 on top with the knarly bases your buddy has eh?
kenny

funny thing is I was thinking the same question, I have a hit list buck that is a 3 point main frame and 4 or 5 points around the brow tine area and was not sure if that is legal

[Mr. Dean]

Who would want a mulie so f'd up anyway???

[Gateholio]

This is gonna be good. :)

[Sofa King]

never thought of this situation before.
but i've always interpreted it as it needs four tines above the brow tine.
that's also the way they show it in the diagrams in the regs.
just like the fishing regs, their wording can be misconstrued.

[604redneck]

Who would want a mulie so f'd up anyway???i always try to shoot the most inbread looking mule deer around so the guys that are looking for the typical mule deer can have them. maybe this year i will shoot a nice typical 4x4

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Since the definition of brow tine is.......



Brow Tine- means the first tine projectingforward or upward in the lower 1/3 of theantler of a moose, caribou, elk or deer.

....then a second point(or more) in the lower 1/3 should count towards the 4 pt rule. Otherwise the definition shoud/would say something like..."brow tine(s)...means any tine(s) in the lower 1/3 of the antler of a moose, caribou, elk or deer"

If they wanted it to exclude any points in the lower 1/3 of the antler, then they sould say just that.

SSS

[Sofa King]

^^we all know what is actually a "brow tine" though.
i don't know why they can't word their definitions so that are cut and dried and cannot mean other possibilities.
surely noone would think a sticker is a brow tine.

[ryanb]

How about a forked brow tine?

[1/2 slam]

This is gonna be good. :)

No kidding. Bring on the popcorn

[OutWest]

funny thing is I was thinking the same question, I have a hit list buck that is a 3 point main frame and 4 or 5 points around the brow tine area and was not sure if that is legal

Perfectly legal.

[Fred1]

Pass on goofy lookin mulie and look for pretty white tail...

[hunter1947]

My thoughts are that to be clear with the point restrictions for mule deer the regs should state count points legal anywhere above the 8 inch mark on the main beam.

This then would cut out all the lower bottom brow tin point counts management that set this drawing for four point restrictions mule deer in the regs made it clear to see that drawing for sure but they said nothing about if a mule deer has 2 or 3 or more over a one inch stickers around the base of the antlers ,,, if a hunter was to come across a mule deer that had two points on top or say three points on top above the lower gard say it had 2,3 or 4 legal point stickers is this deer legal to shoot ???..

Here is an example of what I am saying about the lower points and say this example only has two points above on top or three points up top the lower has 3 legal points excluding the main brow tin..

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/00258.JPG

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/00170.JPG

[Piperdown]

wayne are all the stickers you are pointing out on that shed 1 inch or are you just using the points as an example

[boxhitch]

W, I hope they never try to write the regs to cover all of your 'what ifs?' The regs don't need to be any more complicated than they are now.
Any one that drops a buck based on something that may fit the rules but may not , better be ready to fight an infraction. Better to let it walk than to hope it measures up

"but what if it has six 4" eye guards ? " We don't need rules to cover those one-in-10,000 scenarios. Think of the intent of the rule , and use some judgement.

[G.A.]

myself i wouldnt count any of them smaller ones in the image above...i dont think id see them at a distance to judge it being a point anyways

[Ron.C]

Wayne,

have you forwarded this question to your local CO? Always seems to be the best route if there is even a remote possibility of a misinterpretation with how the synopsis is worded.

[Brambles]

This has been hashed out many times before and there are two opinions on this matter. I personally go by the definitions set out in the regs. Other people crystal ball gaze and try and interpret the intent of the regulation.

[Brambles]

Wayne I'd say that buck, if he was short on points up top, those little stickers still wouldn't push him over the top in my books

[Jack Russell]

This has been hashed out many times before and there are two opinions on this matter. I personally go by the definitions set out in the regs. Other people crystal ball gaze and try and interpret the intent of the regulation.

I think the intent of this regulation is very clear. If there is any "crystal balling" going on, its those who are trying to find a way AROUND the regulation with language interpretations as an example.

[hunter1947]

wayne are all the stickers you are pointing out on that shed 1 inch or are you just using the points as an example


As an example ..

[hunter1947]

Wayne,

have you forwarded this question to your local CO? Always seems to be the best route if there is even a remote possibility of a misinterpretation with how the synopsis is worded.


Ron I will talk to my good friend the CO up here in the near future regarding my thoughts..

[GoatGuy]

If all else fails, use common sense.

[Brambles]

I think the intent of this regulation is very clear. If there is any "crystal balling" going on, its those who are trying to find a way AROUND the regulation with language interpretations as an example.

The intent of the regulation is not expressed nor implied anywhere in the synopsis! Therefore anyone claiming to know the intent is just using their own opinions to form their conclusion.

What we are given is a set of very clear and specific definitions regarding what constitutes a "point" and a "brow tine".
People tend to over think on stuff like this!

[Mr. Dean]

I think the regs CLEARLY allow us to shoot these inferior, genetically screwy animals.

[boxhitch]

If all else fails, use common sense. Ha

haha



ahahahhahhahhha



AAAHHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAAAA !

[Jack Russell]

The intent of the regulation is not expressed nor implied anywhere in the synopsis! Therefore anyone claiming to know the intent is just using their own opinions to form their conclusion.

What we are given is a set of very clear and specific definitions regarding what constitutes a "point" and a "brow tine".
People tend to over think on stuff like this!

Sure. That, too.

Except, here we are.

[GoatGuy]

The intent of the regulation is not expressed nor implied anywhere in the synopsis! Therefore anyone claiming to know the intent is just using their own opinions to form their conclusion.

What we are given is a set of very clear and specific definitions regarding what constitutes a "point" and a "brow tine".
People tend to over think on stuff like this!

That's not calling over-thinking, it's called over-stupiding.

If in doubt let it walk. Shooting an animal really can't be that important in the bigger scheme of things. It's like all the culls shooting short sheep out of spences then taking it to court - use your brain first, then you won't have to pay for it later.

Besides all this discussion I thought there weren't any mulw deer left in the kootenays which makes the whole thread a complete waste of time.

[hunter1947]

This thread all revolves around say you are looking with a spotting scope at a 160 + typical mule deer and say this set of antlers has a few stickers on the lower bottom and the top has three on each side ,,,I can tell you this if this deer had a few 1,1/2 stickers at the bottom I sure would be identifying them to make sure this buck was legal so I could dump it.....

[kennyj]

This thread all revolves around say you are looking with a spotting scope at a 160 + typical mule deer and say this set of antlers has a few stickers on the lower bottom and the top has three on each side ,,,I can tell you this if this deer had a few 1,1/2 stickers at the bottom I sure would be identifying them to make sure this buck was legal so I could dump it.....


I agree Wayne, There are some huge genetic 3 points out there. They are good ones to take out of the population as well.
kenny

[sawmill]

My thoughts are that to be clear with the point restrictions for mule deer the regs should state count points legal anywhere above the 8 inch mark on the main beam.

This then would cut out all the lower bottom brow tin point counts management that set this drawing for four point restrictions mule deer in the regs made it clear to see that drawing for sure but they said nothing about if a mule deer has 2 or 3 or more over a one inch stickers around the base of the antlers ,,, if a hunter was to come across a mule deer that had two points on top or say three points on top above the lower gard say it had 2,3 or 4 legal point stickers is this deer legal to shoot ???..

Here is an example of what I am saying about the lower points and say this example only has two points above on top or three points up top the lower has 3 legal points excluding the main brow tin..

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/00258.JPG

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/00170.JPG

Pretty sketchy my friend.I`d pass.

[riflebuilder]

Stickers count but the pictured buck is way to close to all in the field. I would let him walk.

[J_T]

I agree Wayne, There are some huge genetic 3 points out there. They are good ones to take out of the population as well.
kenny Yup, some huge 3 pt's out there. And that's what they are, gnarly 3 pts. Have let many walk, and will continue to do so. IMO, a bunch of nubbies at the base don't constitute sufficient information (to make it legal) to harvest the 3 pt, without expecting some risk of challenge in law. I'm pretty sure the 'image' of a 3 pt or 4pt in the regs doesn't show a bunch of base nubs. It shows branched antlers.

[sawmill]

Yup,it ain`t worth getting sideways with the CO and losing your hunting license.Not to mention the SHAME,OH GOD,THE SHAME....:(

[hunter1947]

Yup, some huge 3 pt's out there. And that's what they are, gnarly 3 pts. Have let many walk, and will continue to do so. IMO, a bunch of nubbies at the base don't constitute sufficient information (to make it legal) to harvest the 3 pt, without expecting some risk of challenge in law. I'm pretty sure the 'image' of a 3 pt or 4pt in the regs doesn't show a bunch of base nubs. It shows branched antlers.


Yes branched above with there drawing in the regs but nothing below so if there are a few three point mulies out there that do have over an inch long sticker at the base below the gard I want to find out if legal or not looking into it right now will get back to all with the feed back I get but no names mentioned....

[huntcoop]

The regs say 4 point mule deer is ''any buck having 4 tines, excluding the brow tine on one antler''
So I see it that a buck has only one brow tine, so any other tines count in the point count. It doesn't say points have to be above the brow tines...

That says it all......example being a 3 point mule deer with a 1.5" tine sticking off any part of the antler would be a legal shooter in 4 point season.

[dana]

Wayne,
Just follow the regs. They are pretty clear. The first point upward or forward is the eyeguard. This may be or may not be the G1 in the Bonne & Crockett definitions. Don't confuse the two as the BC definitions are not in any way shape or form the same as the Bonne & Crockett definitions. And don't worry about the diagrams in the regs. They are examples only. There are no pictures of 4x2's or 4x1's or any of the mulititude of variations of a legal 4 point.

[hunter1947]

Wayne,
Just follow the regs. They are pretty clear. The first point upward or forward is the eyeguard. This may be or may not be the G1 in the Bonne & Crockett definitions. Don't confuse the two as the BC definitions are not in any way shape or form the same as the Bonne & Crockett definitions. And don't worry about the diagrams in the regs. They are examples only. There are no pictures of 4x2's or 4x1's or any of the mulititude of variations of a legal 4 point.

Yes you have a good point well said dana..

[hunter1947]

Here is a mule deer shed that one member posted on the forum ,,say the upper top only had 3 countable points and the bottom has these stickers are they countable points???..

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/photo14444_zps4ea08a12.jpg

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/photo14444_zps4ea08a121.jpg

[BiG Boar]

Would you count them as points on an elk? I know I sure would.

[Weatherby Fan]

The top picture is a 4 point with sticker points(legal) and the lower picture is a 3 point with sticker points and I would say illegal to shoot come 4 point season, just my thoughts and opinion based on how i read the regulations

[sawmill]

That 3 point is perfectly legal.It has the stickers well above the browtine.

[Sofa King]

That 3 point is perfectly legal.It has the stickers well above the browtine.

i agree.
as long as those stickers are long enough, it would make him legal to shoot during 4 point or better.

[hunter1947]

Would you count them as points on an elk? I know I sure would.

Yes I would x2..

[hunter1947]

That 3 point is perfectly legal.It has the stickers well above the browtine.


Joe this is what I would think X2..

[hunter1947]

i agree.
as long as those stickers are long enough, it would make him legal to shoot during 4 point or better.


Good feed back thanks..

[GoatGuy]

Bit confused on this one.

Got guys who want a 4 pts season and are opposed to any buck trying to make little 3 pts into shooters.

Is it legal?

Huh??

What happened to it should be 4 pts only season, 4 pts only buck? We need BIG BUCKS.

Is this like the big bull elk hunters that want 6 pts and can keep the safety on when a 280 walks out? Or a 5 pts with a 1" sticker?

What am I missing here? Guys want regulations for their own benefit then want to shoot something that's borderline? 1.5" points, really?

I could see if for the guys that are looking to put meat in the freezer, but not the folks who are advocating 6 pts elk and 4 pts mule deer.

Can't talk out of both sides of the mouth.

[Sofa King]

goatguy, the question was simply "is that a legal rack"?
and it is.

nothing wrong with someone shooting a dink.
lots of hunters are trying to put meat in the freezer.

[GoatGuy]

goatguy, the question was simply "is that a legal rack"?
and it is.

nothing wrong with someone shooting a dink.
lots of hunters are trying to put meat in the freezer.

I agree with you 100% and totally support you on that.

The trouble is the people who are 'talking about it' are the guys that want antler restrictions, complain about the number of small bucks being shot. They want to restrict everyone else and the way they hunt, but then they want to talk about legal 3 pts with stickers.

It makes no sense.

[HarryToolips]

Boy do I ever gotta re-read the regs again...do thoroughly before every season yet still forget stuff all the time...

[hunter1947]

GG It makes sense for hunters that want to put meat in the freezer this is why I brought up points on a Mule deers antlers :)....

[dana]

You would think if someone wants to put meat in the freezer they would support 'Any Buck' seasons eh?

[hunter1947]

You would think if someone wants to put meat in the freezer they would support 'Any Buck' seasons eh?

LOL some do..

[GoatGuy]

You would think if someone wants to put meat in the freezer they would support 'Any Buck' seasons eh?
No doubt. Too many people talking out of both sides of their mouth.

[hunter1947]

GG LOL you are to funny :roll:..

[Sofa King]

people against an "any buck" season are fools.
hunting is about harvesting your own meat to feed your family.
that's how it all came about.
we fed ourselves, we clothed ourselves, and even made tools and weapons, all from a harvested animal.
there's more sense in curbing "trophy hunting" than trying to get rid of "any buck" seasons.

[GoatGuy]

people against an "any buck" season are fools.
hunting is about harvesting your own meat to feed your family.
that's how it all came about.
we fed ourselves, we clothed ourselves, and even made tools and weapons, all from a harvested animal.
there's more sense in curbing "trophy hunting" than trying to get rid of "any buck" seasons.
If that's the case there are a lot of "fools" out there.

[Jelvis]

If you see a mule deer buck in the bush in four point season, like this one Wayne, if it was standing still looking at you by a huge rock and some blowdown, you would count three point. If you got close enuff to give em a big kiss then measure the point above the eye guard if it's over 4 inches long, maybe? lol I'll give yah a definite maybe. jel. The Key? Bottom Third if they are in the bottom third they are not counted in the four point scheme, period and Amen

[Salty]

And Jel leads us to the point of this thread. amen lol

[hunter1947]

If you see a mule deer buck in the bush in four point season, like this one Wayne, if it was standing still looking at you by a huge rock and some blowdown, you would count three point. If you got close enuff to give em a big kiss then measure the point above the eye guard if it's over 4 inches long, maybe? lol I'll give yah a definite maybe. jel. The Key? Bottom Third if they are in the bottom third they are not counted in the four point scheme, period and Amen


Jel I agree it is confusing for sure and where is the gard when you do count is it the top one or the bottom one that is less then an inch ??? :confused: witch one do you count as the main gard what point :confused:..........

[dana]

Wayne,
Why do you keep jumping back and forth on this one. The first point upward or forward is the eyeguard. It's that easy. Why complicate a non-issue?

[hunter1947]

Wayne,
Why do you keep jumping back and forth on this one. The first point upward or forward is the eyeguard. It's that easy. Why complicate a non-issue?

Dana say I see a monster mule deer out at 150 + yards or so this mule deer is a 150+ buck I have my spotting scope set up on this buck the buck has 3 on top both sides I can see 3 stickers at the lower base on one antler two of the stickers are above the main gard about two inches they are two inches long my question Dana are these countable points ??? Yes or NO then I will drop this subject ,,I have contacted a CO I know but he has not replied to my question I will have to go to the main office to ask copy this picture and take it over to the wildlife branch..


This picture of the antler is it legal or illegal buck to shoot YES OR NO ???..

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/photo14444_zps4ea08a121.jpg

[dana]

The first tine more than an inch long upward or forward is the eyeguard according to the wildlife act. So after that, how many points over an inch long does the buck have? If over 4 on one side, legal buck. It is that easy Wayne. Why are you trying to complicate it?

[WKCotts]

Dana say I see a monster mule deer out at 150 + yards or so this mule deer is a 150+ buck I have my spotting scope set up on this buck the buck has 3 on top both sides I can see 3 stickers at the lower base on one antler two of the stickers are above the main gard about two inches they are two inches long my question Dana are these countable points ??? Yes or NO then I will drop this subject ,,I have contacted a CO I know but he has not replied to my question I will have to go to the main office to ask copy this picture and take it over to the wildlife branch..


This picture of the antler is it legal or illegal buck to shoot YES OR NO ???..

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/photo14444_zps4ea08a121.jpg

that is a legal buck. No question about it

[Jelvis]

Measure from the bottom of the antler to the antlers tip, divide by 33 %, anything in the lower third of that distance won't fall into the four point system of things, Note: Bottom third of the antler, so after the bottom third it would count if it's long enuff for the current regulations definition of where to measure from, center of antler out on tines. Jelly Pro Prognosticator

[dana]

Jell,
Please quote the section of the Wildlife Act you are pulling that from. :)

[Jelvis]

Someone put it on this thread, it said the lower third of the antler Steve. 33 and a turd, at the bottom, from pedastil to the tippers. Divide by 3 and the bottom third does not count for points in the 4 point system or I'm Festus from Gunsmoke.

[dana]

Jelly,
Just because you read something on the internet, doesn't make it true. Search the Wildlife Act yourself and see what you come up with. I betcha, you ain't going to see your bottom third rule are ya?

[Jelvis]

Look back in this thread and you will see a print out of the rule out of the regs but I cood have been decieved. Check back a few pages and we can find it. jellapeeno up Rouseau Creek with Big Cali Zeke

[Rackmastr]

Someone put it on this thread, it said the lower third of the antler Steve. 33 and a turd, at the bottom, from pedastil to the tippers. Divide by 3 and the bottom third does not count for points in the 4 point system or I'm Festus from Gunsmoke.

You're Festus from Gunsmoke and you're mis-reading the post by SSS in this thread.

Read the Wildlife Act rather than spouting off. This topic is so incredibly easy yet some are making it so hard lol

[dana]

Jelly,
I've read the regs and the Wildlife Act, no such rule exists. Sorry bud to burst your bubble. If you don't believe me, read the Act yourself.

[Jelvis]

Hey Steve I believe you honestly rather than some post SSS put on and mixed me up. I saw a monster three point mule buck the size of an elk in Barriere and the guy that pointed it out to me was trying to grow another point on this stud mule buck. It had three long tines on each side that were perfectly matched and about a 36 inch width, it was awe inspiring and we couldn't imagine or grow another point no matter how hard we begged. lol. But the lower one third of the antler deal? Does it not count as a measurement to use, one third. Or just leave that out?

[Jim Prawn]

My thoughts are that to be clear with the point restrictions for mule deer the regs should state count points legal anywhere above the 8 inch mark on the main beam.

This then would cut out all the lower bottom brow tin point counts management that set this drawing for four point restrictions mule deer in the regs made it clear to see that drawing for sure but they said nothing about if a mule deer has 2 or 3 or more over a one inch stickers around the base of the antlers ,,, if a hunter was to come across a mule deer that had two points on top or say three points on top above the lower gard say it had 2,3 or 4 legal point stickers is this deer legal to shoot ???..

Here is an example of what I am saying about the lower points and say this example only has two points above on top or three points up top the lower has 3 legal points excluding the main brow tin..

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/00258.JPG

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/00170.JPG

This is a great example, except... in very few situations could you actually judge the extra lower points as being legal before pulling the trigger.... IF you could, by all means anything above the first tine more than 1 inch counts towards the 4 points.
JP

[Jelvis]

Are you measuring from the edge of the main beam or the middle? To get your tine legal length?

[Rackmastr]

Are you measuring from the edge of the main beam or the middle? To get your tine legal length?

I'd suggest that if someone doesnt know how to measure a tine they look in the Regulations Synopsis.

[hunter1947]

I will be going to the wild life branch and taking a print out of the last picture I posted up on my thread I want to know what they say to me when I show them this copied picture I see 6 contable points on this antler all above the eye gard that I have pointed out in the picture ,,,like Arnold said I will be back LOL..

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/photo14444_zps4ea08a121.jpg

[dana]

Wayne,
Why waste their time? You already know the answer. The regs are very clear. This is not a confusing issue at all. For some reason you refuse to read the regs for yourself. Go with KISS. Keep it simple S_____. (I'd hate for someone to actually think I was serious with the last word. ;) )

[Weatherby Fan]

I will be going to the wild life branch and taking a print out of the last picture I posted up on my thread I want to know what they say to me when I show them this copied picture I see 6 contable points on this antler all above the eye gard that I have pointed out in the picture ,,,like Arnold said I will be back LOL..

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/photo14444_zps4ea08a121.jpg

The trouble with what your asking Wayne will end up being a matter of opinion from different CO's,you'll go in and talk to someone you know and they may yes it's legal and the next one stops by your camp and your paying fines.......best stick to the regs and call it a day.

[Jelvis]

Confusion favors the C.O. if your confused and doubtful about what your doing the C.O. will set you straight. Now your in a conversation, which is good, but don't forget not all C.O.s see things the same way on different rules and regs. So if in any doubt A Tall, pass. Until your 100% certain you'll be curtains. Mule deer antler branch into forks, a fork has two points. So a four point buck would have two forks on one side and two forks of tines on the tother brother. Making 4 points on each side.

[Ambush]

Individual CO's do not decide how to interpret the law. The courts interpret law. Even if a Co issues a ticket based on his interpretation that doesn't mean you have to automatically pay that ticket. Sometimes they are wrong.

Know the regs and if in doubt, get a clarification from top. Stay within the regs and you never have to look over your shoulder.

And remember, nearly all CO's are just doing their job, best they can, and are not looking to hang every hunter.

[dana]

The law is all we have to go on. Could you imagine if we had to go on everyone's interpretation? Just look at wayne and Jell. They have changed their minds numerous times in this thread alone. :) The law states clearly what the eyeguard is and what a 4 point muley is. Seems many don't care to read the law but would rather come up with internet guesses. If Wayne does talk to the CO's I know the exact answer he'll receive. "If in doubt, Pass!"

[Jelvis]

As an old timer hunter in B.C. I was taught a four point muley buck had four points on at least one side of the rack. A muley rack comes up off the pedistal and the main beam appears in the shaft, could have a lil eye guard or a long eye guard but it dint count as a point in the legal 4 point mule buck in four point season regs. Now with the monkey wrench of the triple S, post about the lower third of the antler has fogged the mirror. I can't see clearly now the fog has come. 1 2 3 ah It's as Clear as Mud.

[jhausner]

I've discussed this topic with a few COs in the past quite extensively while at camp hunting in various regions regarding not just Mule deer but Moose too. I can't quote them directly and as has been mentioned, you're better to side on caution, but all the COs' definitions were for Mule deer that the first tine found from the base to the first 1/3rd of an antler is considered a brow tine and does not count towards point count. After the 1/3rd, they count even if there is no tine within the first 1/3rd. And it only has to happen on 1 antler. My buddy took a 5 point (1 brow and 5 points above) that lost 1 entire entler so from the side we actually thought it was a 2 x 3 and had to really look for a while until it turned its head. That is the "intent" if you want to read anything into it.

Same with Moose and spike+fork. Legally according to the COs I spoke with if you shoot a Moose that has lost 1 full antler and has just a stub sticking up that qualifies as a tine, but the other antler is a giant paddle, it is legal to shoot under spike+fork even though we all know it was probably a double-paddle Moose.

That all said, I side with caution and in 4 pt season if it doesn't clearly have a brow tine and 4 points above, I let it pass and don't get into the tape-measure debate of interpretive legalities. Better safe than sorry imo.

But based on what I've read and been told, the above are the regulations. "Intention" is not law. If it says brow tine = X and points = Y, if you apply that to the antler in question and it fits that definition, you are legal.

[hunter1947]

I do agree with the thoughts on members opinions on points on a mule deer but what confuses me is here is another example say I see a big throw back mule deer he is a 3x3 with two nice guards say the eye guards are two inches long then I see on one of the antlers a sticker that is 4 inches long between the eye guard and the above three point is this mule deer legal to shoot can a person count this as a 4 point ???.

[bridger]

The four point requirement is put in the regs by managers to limit the buck harvest and at the same time keep a gos. We all know the accepted defintion of a four point mulie. Two definite forks above the brow tine on one antler. Stretching the definition and going outside the spirit of the regulations isn't something we should be doing just to harvest a "legal" buck. In my view it is no different than the full curl law. If you have to guess let it go. Makes us all look good.

[hunter1947]

The four point requirement is put in the regs by managers to limit the buck harvest and at the same time keep a gos. We all know the accepted defintion of a four point mulie. Two definite forks above the brow tine on one antler. Stretching the definition and going outside the spirit of the regulations isn't something we should be doing just to harvest a "legal" buck. In my view it is no different than the full curl law. If you have to guess let it go. Makes us all look good.

Bridger you can't compare a rams horns with a mule deer totally different species reason being is there are no stickers that grow off from the horns on a ram some mule deer do have stickers that are abnormal ..

[bridger]

[QUOTE=hunter1947;1344271]Bridger you can't compare a rams horns with a mule deer totally different species reason being is there are no stickers that grow off from the horns on a ram some mule deer do have stickers that are abnormal ..[/

principal is still the same no matter how you look at it. Managers use point restrictions, horn length, family groups, sex, etc to control harvest and at the same time keeping seasons open for more hunter opportunities. Looking for loopholes in harvest restrictions in order to harvest a "legal" animal isn't something we should be promoting in my opinion. Again every experienced mule deer hunter knows the definition of a four point buck as defined by tradition, common sense, and within spirit of the regs.

[Rackmastr]

I do agree with the thoughts on members opinions on points on a mule deer but what confuses me is here is another example say I see a big throw back mule deer he is a 3x3 with two nice guards say the eye guards are two inches long then I see on one of the antlers a sticker that is 4 inches long between the eye guard and the above three point is this mule deer legal to shoot can a person count this as a 4 point ???.

Wayne I'm thinking no matter how many different ways you type it or ask it, the answer is not going to change. The definitions are in the regs and the Act and thats all that a person needs to go on. A point is a point in the eyes of the law and thats what you're asking about (the law). After that, comes personal decisions on shooting bucks of the right age structure or looking for big mature deer vs little ones with extra points. Botton line is if you're asking about 'legal' the best thing to do is look at the Act and the regs. The fact that this thread is 9 pages long amazes me lol

[OutWest]

Not sure why this topic is getting beaten to death for the umpteenth time. As Dana has said, the regs are clear and simple regarding this and you're wasting your time going in to the office.

Bridger, the accepted definition is two forks above the brow tine? I guess we shouldn't be shooting NT bucks then.

[Sofa King]

not true at all.
two forks on only one side makes the deer a 4-point.
a 4x3 is a 4-point buck.

and like many others have said.
what's important is that we know the laws.
many CO's and cops have their own interpretations, and can be mistaken.
what matters is what the courts will follow.
they can write all the tickets they want, they're not worth the paper they are written on if the courts see it differently.

[Sofa King]

^^that was in reference to jelvis' comment.
i quoted, but it didn't put his post in with it.

[The Dawg]

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj313/Heliox18/Forum%20Ammo/repeatthreads.jpg (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/Heliox18/media/Forum%20Ammo/repeatthreads.jpg.html)

[hunter1947]

not true at all.
two forks on only one side makes the deer a 4-point.
a 4x3 is a 4-point buck.

and like many others have said.
what's important is that we know the laws.
many CO's and cops have their own interpretations, and can be mistaken.
what matters is what the courts will follow.
they can write all the tickets they want, they're not worth the paper they are written on if the courts see it differently.


X2 well said..

[hunter1947]

When I do see the head co or call him and if he tells me I am right then if I do see a mule deer of this caliber and I do shoot it here in the EK then I won't have to worry will I LOL I won't be back on my thread till I see or hear from the head CO here in Cranbrook then I will tell all what he told me .....

[WKCotts]

The four point requirement is put in the regs by managers to limit the buck harvest and at the same time keep a gos. We all know the accepted defintion of a four point mulie. Two definite forks above the brow tine on one antler. Stretching the definition and going outside the spirit of the regulations isn't something we should be doing just to harvest a "legal" buck. In my view it is no different than the full curl law. If you have to guess let it go. Makes us all look good.

Well said. I can't believe this thread is still alive. Lol

[Walking Buffalo]

Bridger you can't compare a rams horns with a mule deer totally different species reason being is there are no stickers that grow off from the horns on a ram some mule deer do have stickers that are abnormal ..

For Mulw deer the legal description does not differentiate between an abnormal or a "normal" point.

You understand the legal definition of the "Brow Tine" and "Tine or Point"....
Brow Tine
- means the first tine projecting
forward or upward in the lower 1/3 of the
antler of a moose, caribou, elk or deer.

Tine or "Point" -
means a branch of an
antler which is longer than its breadth and is at
least 2.5 cm in length, and for the purpose of
determining the length of a tine
(a) the breadth of the tine is measured (if
extending from a palmation of an antler, then in
the plane of the palm) at a location at least 2.5
cm from the tip of the tine, and
(b) the length of the tine is measured from its
tip end, following the midline of the profile of
the tine, and following the natural curvature
of the tine, to the midpoint of the straight line
along which the breadth is measured. (See
How to Measure a Tine diagram below)

For Mule Deer, ANY legal tine other than the Brow Tine counts as a legal Point. To be a legal 4 point buck , you count the Brow tine and ANY four points ANYWHERE on one antler.


From the Wildlife Act Hunting Regulation

A person commits an offence if the person kills a mule (black-tailed) deer buck (edit: insert M.U. area and season dates here)
unless the buck has at least one antler which has at least 4 points (tines) not including the brow tine.



A buck with just an unforked main beam and four legal "Tines" on the bottom third of the antler is still a Legal 4 Point Mule Deer Buck.

[hunter1947]

For Mulw deer the legal description does not differentiate between an abnormal or a "normal" point.

You understand the legal definition of the "Brow Tine" and "Tine or Point"....
Brow Tine
- means the first tine projecting
forward or upward in the lower 1/3 of the
antler of a moose, caribou, elk or deer.

Tine or "Point" -
means a branch of an
antler which is longer than its breadth and is at
least 2.5 cm in length, and for the purpose of
determining the length of a tine
(a) the breadth of the tine is measured (if
extending from a palmation of an antler, then in
the plane of the palm) at a location at least 2.5
cm from the tip of the tine, and
(b) the length of the tine is measured from its
tip end, following the midline of the profile of
the tine, and following the natural curvature
of the tine, to the midpoint of the straight line
along which the breadth is measured. (See
How to Measure a Tine diagram below)

For Mule Deer, ANY legal tine other than the Brow Tine counts as a legal Point. To be a legal 4 point buck , you count the Brow tine and ANY four points ANYWHERE on one antler.


From the Wildlife Act Hunting Regulation

A person commits an offence if the person kills a mule (black-tailed) deer buck (edit: insert M.U. area and season dates here)
unless the buck has at least one antler which has at least 4 points (tines) not including the brow tine.



A buck with just an unforked main beam and four legal "Tines" on the bottom third of the antler is still a Legal 4 Point Mule Deer Buck.


I lied I am back LOL..

You can not count the brow tine but anything above you can..
On page 5 in the regs it clearly it says four points or greater buck -means any buck having at least three tines excluding the brow tine on one antler the picture I put up clearly shows that if I was to see a buck like this I don't count the first brow tine as the regs state there are still 5 measurable legal points on this shed I posted that I see..

If it went to court and If I did or any other person shot a buck with antlers like this I am sure the courts would go in our favor ,,I myself probably never will shoot a mule deer that has countable points between the eye guard and the upper main tines but as you have seen in the picture I posted that there are mule deer out there that do have countable points from the main guard on up but I am just saying it would be a grey area if it went to the court house....

This is my opinion on what the antlers for mule deer should show in the regs..

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/00259.JPG

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/photo14444_zps4ea08a122.jpg

I see 5 countable points on this mule deer antler if I shot this deer and if it went to court I am sure I would win the case..

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/photo14444_zps4ea08a123.jpg

[Walking Buffalo]

Lol.... I'm getting sucked in....

Can anyone teach this old dog...? :)



From the Wildlife Act Hunting Regulation
http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/laws/regu/bc-reg-190-84/latest/bc-reg-190-84.html

Look for regulation within the scheduals.

A person commits an offence if the person kills a mule (black-tailed) deer buck (edit: insert M.U. area and season dates here)
unless the buck has at least one antler which has at least 4 points (tines) not including the brow tine.


There is NO Legal description of where the four points (excluding the brow tine) need to be located. A buck with four points ANYWHERE an a single antler (excluding the Brow Tine- IF it exists) is a Legal Four Point.

[hunterdon]

I will be going to the wild life branch and taking a print out of the last picture I posted up on my thread I want to know what they say to me when I show them this copied picture I see 6 contable points on this antler all above the eye gard that I have pointed out in the picture ,,,like Arnold said I will be back LOL..

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/photo14444_zps4ea08a121.jpg
Looking forward to hearing their conclusion and interpretation. Until then, I'll reserve my opinion. Nevertheless, a valid question Wayne! Thanks for posting.

[Rackmastr]

Lol.... I'm getting sucked in....

Can anyone teach this old dog...? :)



From the Wildlife Act Hunting Regulation
http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/laws/regu/bc-reg-190-84/latest/bc-reg-190-84.html

Look for regulation within the scheduals.

A person commits an offence if the person kills a mule (black-tailed) deer buck (edit: insert M.U. area and season dates here)
unless the buck has at least one antler which has at least 4 points (tines) not including the brow tine.


There is NO Legal description of where the four points (excluding the brow tine) need to be located. A buck with four points ANYWHERE an a single antler (excluding the Brow Tine- IF it exists) is a Legal Four Point.

LOL....not sure why anyone wants to make this conversation any harder than it is already! Makes a guy want to bang his head on the table....

Next can we re-draw the 6-point elk and discuss what happens if a bull has a kicker point somewhere or isnt a symetrical 'perfect' looking 6pt elk? That one could go for 20 pages ++

[hunter1947]

LOL....not sure why anyone wants to make this conversation any harder than it is already! Makes a guy want to bang his head on the table....

Next can we re-draw the 6-point elk and discuss what happens if a bull has a kicker point somewhere or isnt a symetrical 'perfect' looking 6pt elk? That one could go for 20 pages ++


Ya but a elk antler is any countable point for 6 on one side a mule deer is not LOL :mrgreen:..

[Sofa King]

it drives me nuts how they call it an eight-point in the states. they are always shooting ten and twelve point bucks.

[hunter1947]

I got in touch with the wildlife branch up here in Cranbrook showed the picture of this shed antler..

I talked to a top brass in this branch not to mention any names of personal ,, this person said I would not be breaking the law if I shot any mule deer that had 2.5 cm tines above the main eye guard ..

Others can come back and argue there point all they want about this point restriction I really don't care because if I was to take a mule deer as the picture shows in my past posts I would not be breaking the law ,,page 5 drawing and statement tells all..

[J_T]

Wayne I don't think anyone disputes the legality of the shed antler image on the tailgate of the truck. I would be interested in their opinion of your post number 15 image.

While I do think most experienced hunters have the confidence to have found this thread entertaining, I'm sure you've added to the confusion for the less experienced.

[hunter1947]

Wayne I don't think anyone disputes the legality of the shed antler image on the tailgate of the truck. I would be interested in their opinion of your post number 15 image.

While I do think most experienced hunters have the confidence to have found this thread entertaining, I'm sure you've added to the confusion for the less experienced.

T_J it's educating the young up coming hunter on my thread they will know that they can take a mule deer if it has any abnormal points on the main beam above the eye guard that are legal point 2.5cm saying the deer only has 3 legal countable points on the top and there is trash points that are countable points above the eye guard just saying....

[OutWest]

Just what Dana and a few others said..

[jhausner]

Basically what I said earlier. Only thing to keep in mind (for young hunters) is that from a good distance, those little abnormal points may be hard if not impossible to see. So your average beginner hunter (and some older hunters with not so good eye sight or patience) would probably see only a 3 point through the binocs. Same reason people I've seen constantly mess up on Spike/Fork Moose and they actually have 3 points. Even had a friend identify a Moose as a cow and watched it with the binocs for a good 10 minutes, took a picture with his camera, then came back to camp. Look at the picture and zoom in and you could see it had antlers and 1 was a 2 point fork. This was from a fairly veteran hunter too. Moral is, while it may be legal and it is good to know the regulations inside and out, if there is any doubt in your mind when you're in the field looking through your scope, let it go.

[Ambush]

Even had a friend identify a Moose as a cow and watched it with the binocs for a good 10 minutes, took a picture with his camera, then came back to camp. Look at the picture and zoom in and you could see it had antlers and 1 was a 2 point fork.

Is he one of those guys that believes his $200 bino's are just as good as the other guys Swaro's, Lieca's or Zies? :mrgreen: [..and for Hermit, I'll add Kowa...]:-D

[GoatGuy]

Basically what I said earlier. Only thing to keep in mind (for young hunters) is that from a good distance, those little abnormal points may be hard if not impossible to see. So your average beginner hunter (and some older hunters with not so good eye sight or patience) would probably see only a 3 point through the binocs. Same reason people I've seen constantly mess up on Spike/Fork Moose and they actually have 3 points. Even had a friend identify a Moose as a cow and watched it with the binocs for a good 10 minutes, took a picture with his camera, then came back to camp. Look at the picture and zoom in and you could see it had antlers and 1 was a 2 point fork. This was from a fairly veteran hunter too. Moral is, while it may be legal and it is good to know the regulations inside and out, if there is any doubt in your mind when you're in the field looking through your scope, let it go.

This is good advice... and shouldn't be looking through your scope unless you've positively identified with binos, spotter or eyeball.

Also, fruit loops boxes are only a good place to get breakfast, not binoculars.:mrgreen::mrgreen:

[hunter1947]

To all hunter like many others have said don't shoot unless you are absolutely sure the points are well beyond the 2,5cm length or let the animal walk ,,top class binoculars spotting scope are a must if you are looking at a point on a animal this is at most time done when you are at a close range 150 or shorter distance ,,if in dough let the animal walk this goes for elk and mule deer ,,many of times I have let elk walk because I was not sure the point length for the 6th point was a legal length..