Swarovski spotters

[Darksith]

So I am about to purchase a swaro spotter I think. What should I be looking at? The ATS/STS HD or the ATX/STX line? Lets say money isn't an issue, which one is better? I would imagine that the angled eye piece is better suited to hunting? What are the pros and cons of each?

I don't have much experience with spotters, but it is the next tool that I need to add to my arsenal. I will be doing some multi day back packing/hiking adventures, I do a lot of shooting at the range, but mostly I am a day tripper using my UTV to get me to the spot, then on foot from there.

[Elkaddict]

I would be looking hard at the ATX line if money were no object. I like what they have done putting the zoom ring right next to the focus ring, it looks to be a very handy feature. Also, if money is really no object, with the modular capability of the ATX line you can have whatever you need that day if you have a couple of different objectives, say a 65mm for packing and an 80 for other work closer to the road. The modular design would also pack into a smaller unit, the downside being that it wouldn't be very fast to set up if you needed it quickly.

Angled vs. straight?? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you do a search it has been debated here quite a bit, and you will find champions of either style. For me personally, having owned both, I prefer an angled scope. The only thing I can think of that the straight scope was better for would be glassing out of the cab of a truck with a window mount.

[Chopper]

IM not sure what modle mine is ... it was about 2500 w/ eye piece , Its none HD and my eye piece is straight. From what i hear you dont really need the HD unless your shooting video with it.

All i know is i cringed when i paid for it and the next day when i was using it i completly forgot about the cash i spent. They are that good

[decker9]

On the angled vs straight, I just bought a angled spotter, all my previous scopes were straight, and I'm having a hell of a time getting use to this angled scope, but might just take time to adapt to it. If you know someone with a angled spotter it would be worth the time to spend a day with it and see how it works for you. I'm kind of wishing I would have went with a straight now, but that's just me.

[The Hermit]

If money is really no object then buy the best of the best. Kowa Prominar 880 Series. BTW - you will get THE best and still save $1K+

[Darksith]

don't get me wrong, money is always an issue, but Im willing to spend some cash once and have the right gear for life is really what I meant. I don't think I would be buying all the attachments for the ATX, I would buy what I need for 80 or 90% of my needs and not worry about the other 10%. That being said, why wouldn't a guy want the HD? I don't see the Kowa being any cheaper than the swaro...in fact I could buy a swaro ATS 65 right now for 1200...

[Elkaddict]

$1200 is a good price, but you still have to buy an eye piece right? I found Kowa pricing to be lower than Swaro when I was looking, if you compare same sized objectives. I wouldn't turn my nose up at either Kowa or Swaro (I own a Kowa). As Hermit said, the Kowa 880 has been voted the number one spotter a couple of times by a couple of organizations.

From what I understand HD has more to do with colour correctness than resolution. Birders appreciate it for viewing coloured plumage, digiscopers seem to like it as well. Short of looking through each to see what pleases your eye, if you are prepared to cry once why not go HD? You'll never have to second guess if you should have upgraded.

[300rum700]

ATX-STX has the Swarovision glass that they use in their Swarovision Binos, it's supposed to be a step up over the regular HD glass used in the ATM-STM. You should be able to find a good deal on the ATM-STM HD line now that they are discontinued. As far as straight vs. angled it all depends on what you will be using it for, if your in mountainous/steep terrain the angled is the way to go, if you are using out of a truck window, at the range or hunting flat ground then straight would be a better bet.
And as far as HD vs non HD that's in the eye of the beholder, I run a ATM 20-60 x 65mm non HD Swaro and have never felt the need to upgrade even using it side by side to other HD spotters.

[Darksith]

Im not turning my nose up at anything, I will continue to do research. Thanks for the tips guys. Keep em coming

[Chopper]

Im not turning my nose up at anything, I will continue to do research. Thanks for the tips guys. Keep em coming

You asked about Swaro for a reason ... i would not get talked into anything else if they are in your budget. Swaro glass is the best on the planet

[pescado]

The atx - stx looks like a very versatile rig. If I was flush with cash it would be the way I would go. Neat concept.

[The Hermit]

You asked about Swaro for a reason ... i would not get talked into anything else if they are in your budget. Swaro glass is the best on the planet

Ahem - that is your opinion. And I'm not knocking Swaro, Leica, or Ziess all of whom make awesome products. However, Kowa in the 880 series doesn't use glass... they grow PURE FLUORITE CRYSTALs in their medical imaging labs and use them as the object lens. Thus the tag line - "crystal clear". All the other scopes coat their good glass with fluorite films.

Also, I would also only compare the Kowa 770 and 880 series scopes in quality to the rest of the best and they are less expensive than the competition size by size.

[Chopper]

Ahem - that is your opinion. And I'm not knocking Swaro, Leica, or Ziess all of whom make awesome products. However, Kowa in the 880 series doesn't use glass... they grow PURE FLUORITE CRYSTALs in their medical imaging labs and use them as the object lens. Thus the tag line - "crystal clear". All the other scopes coat their good glass with fluorite films.

Also, I would also only compare the Kowa 770 and 880 series scopes in quality to the rest of the best and they are less expensive than the competition size by size.

I know what they are and ive played with them, Nice scopes but ... They didnt exactly knock my sox off

[srupp]

hmmm on Tv..the guys who are sponsored by example Leupold ...use LEUPOLD...they are getting $$$ to do so...

Those that want the best mostly all seem to go to swaro. I went to KAMLOOPS took Leica, SWARO,and one other top end out side...yes $10K worth of spotting glass..and glassed for 2 hours....

I own the swaro HD 65 with the 20-60 x eyepiece and the Swaro cover..it is indeed the angled eyepiece..and am REALLY GLAD I went that way..

Last 4 years spotting sheep @ Spenses bridge..everyone...everyone that wanted to ensure something about the ram or sheep came to use the unit...no other spotting scope came close to it in quality. It has eliminated miles of wasted travel..and some incredible animals..ie my 2009 stone sheep 39 x39 x15 bases..`get the best and go hunting...

I wonder why we have folks that say buy this 1/2 the cost unit its "just as good" yet you never hear of someone saying..buy this $50k Ford car its just as good as a $100,000 Audi..ya sure..

Best advice buy THE BEST you can afford you WILL spend far more time glassing ..looking than shooting in your hunting carreer..

cheers
Steven

[Jagermeister]

A friend asked me the same question last week? I have ATS 65 HD. I have other brand name spotters in both configurations.
The barrel of the ATS can be rotated, this can be advantageous if you have the scope set up at the range. It would be quite practical if you were laying prone eyeballing a goat or sheep while trying to determine is you have a shot or not. This way, the hunter need not shift his position from the shooting position back to the spotter. That's about the only advantage that I see with the angled spotter.
On the con side. There is a little alignment tube on the side of Swarovskis and it is rather cumbersome to use with the ATS.
So it basically it boils down to your preference.

I use a Leupold tripod, at 2.6 lbs, it might be a tad heavy to pack on an extended hunt.

[Elkaddict]

I wonder why we have folks that say buy this 1/2 the cost unit its "just as good" yet you never hear of someone saying..buy this $50k Ford car its just as good as a $100,000 Audi..ya sure..

In this particular case I would say it was Lexus vs. Audi:wink:. A cases could be made for either.:-D

[BlacktailStalker]

Another swaro HD guy here, sitting on a slik carbon tripod and a jim white machined head. STS for me. It doesn't find sheep though, I should return it :lol:

[just hunt]

My opion the straight ones are better for locating game better. but that's just me!

[hitch]

I've got a Swarovski spotter,not hd. Have looked throu them all, straight ,angled, hd, different brands. I've got the angled and think it's great! Recommend buying the body armour for it. Mine has been all over the map, in and out of every mode of transport and if you take the armour off, she looks brand new!

[Chopper]

I've got a Swarovski spotter,not hd. Have looked throu them all, straight ,angled, hd, different brands. I've got the angled and think it's great! Recommend buying the body armour for it. Mine has been all over the map, in and out of every mode of transport and if you take the armour off, she looks brand new!


2nd the armour ... guy tried to up sell me on the armour when i was buying my scope and i turned him down. I was back a week later worried he didnt have it in stock anymore , knowing that when he wa sellling it to me it was his last one.

[BlacktailStalker]

Swaro has (or had when I bought it) a promo you get the armour free with scope and eyepiece purchase.... I took it off, too bulky and a bit extra weight. They retail for $200+ though so if you can swindle one into the deal it is worth a try !

[Iltasyuko]

For armour just wrap it in hockey tape - save weight and bulk. If you ever want to sell it just peel it off and good as new.

[Krico]

Just get the cabelas neoprene case. Perfect fit and only like $30 or so.

[boxhitch]

Have had a STS for about 10 years , just returned from a warranty overhaul , the eyepiece had come apart inside.
Have made a couple of protective tubes out of old blue foamie sleeping pad material and duct tape
But most of the time in the day pack it is wrapped in a square of canvas , good to have along for kneeling or sitting on.

Terrain dictates alot as to whether straight or angle is better , combined with a suitable tripod of course.
The angled unit can be used on a shorter compact tripod , and can be a neck saver , but it won't have the o/a height to clear some obstacles.
If you share , the straight is far easier for anyone to get onto game.
Straight for peering over ridges and boulders and grass and willows ,
angled for looking up at cliffs and high slopes.

sex with one , making love with another

[RiverOtter]

Is swaro that much better than Zeiss or Leica?

Have spent some time with a Swaro spotter, just not side by side with Leica or Zeiss in a similar size.

I do know that I was completely underwhelmed by a pards set of 8x40 Swaro EL/ELC's bins a few years back; they actually made me glad I owned a pair of Minox....

[srupp]

I did try the leica and the Zeiss..side by side...the color was nicer out of the Zeiss..however IMO the sharpness ,the edge to edge crystal clear viewing the entire field of view..and ease of use ...no problems with long term no strain use..Leica was "darker" not as much light..still loads better than the Leupold gold ring...yup specifically sat outside Wholesale sports for 2 hrs while an employee sat and chatted...lol chose the HD swaro...

steven

[pescado]

[QUOTE=srupp;1323995]I did try the leica and the Zeiss..side by side...the color was nicer out of the Zeiss..however IMO the sharpness ,the edge to edge crystal clear viewing the entire field of view..and ease of use ...no problems with long term no strain use..Leica was "darker" not as much light..still loads better than the Leupold gold ring...yup specifically sat outside Wholesale sports for 2 hrs while an employee sat and chatted...lol chose the HD swaro...

Too bad you didn't have a Kowa to put in the mix. I have the Kowa 664 prominar and like it a lot. Buddy has the Swaro 65 ATS non HD and it will hang with it to my eyes. Much better balance point as well. Not saying the Kowa is better but for the money it's good value. In the 65mm the Swaro HD is the king. They do say that the Kowa 880 Prominar will hang with them all and then some.

[wlbc]

So I am about to purchase a swaro spotter I think. What should I be looking at? The ATS/STS HD or the ATX/STX line? Lets say money isn't an issue, which one is better? I would imagine that the angled eye piece is better suited to hunting? What are the pros and cons of each?

I don't have much experience with spotters, but it is the next tool that I need to add to my arsenal. I will be doing some multi day back packing/hiking adventures, I do a lot of shooting at the range, but mostly I am a day tripper using my UTV to get me to the spot, then on foot from there.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Swaro HD. Like Srupp, I lined up a Swaro, a Leica, and a Zeiss - they are all very good. I chose the Leica, with my eyes it was the clearest and sharpest, and I did not care for the focus ring on the Swaro, but we are splitting hairs here as they are all alpha glass and you will not regret it.

The difference is not apparent at the range or looking off your friends sundeck down the block. The difference comes when you spot a nice 6 point bull bedding down in an aspen grove across the valley and others have not seen it with whatever they are using.

I'm not upon the new line but the HD series is pretty darn good.

Straight vs angle, hmmm, I've got both and I prefer the angle but the answer could be different for you. It would be useful to consider your application and your stature when deciding.

1. If you are tall consider an angle head. I'm 6'4" and twisting my body around to look through a straight head scope gets tedious and tiring after awhile.

2. If you are hunting grizzly, elk, or moose consider an angle head. When you are glassing slides for spring bear, or the tree line for elk and moose for hours on end the straight head is tedious.

3. The angle head is slower to acquire a target but once you get used to it's about the same as the straight.

4. The straight is a little easier to pack if you are one of those sheep and goat loonies. :)

Hope this helps.

[Jagermeister]

Swaro 65 ATS 65 @ 1020 meters and 60X




http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r496/Leaveoff/misc008_zps08092085.jpg

This one is just over 1100 meters @ 20X. Both photos were taken with a Pentax Optio RZ10 without the aid of a camera adapter. Late afternoon with high heavy overcast.

http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r496/Leaveoff/misc012_zps1eb6884f.jpg

[Rust]

Elkaddict, which Kowa do you have? Have you set it up beside a Swaro??

Lots of interesting info here. Im thinking about upgrading my luepold gold ring! Ive kinda put Leicas on the side, simply cause they only go to 50x, A buddy has the Ziess 20-75x its real nice, another buddy has the Swaro 80 HD. going to set those two up side by side.... But ive also had an intesest in Kowa!! I havent heard much about the Kowa's but when I have its always been good.

[boxhitch]

Compare them to your Gold Ring , not such a big step in improvement , you might just decide to spend your money elsewhere.

[Elkaddict]

Elkaddict, which Kowa do you have? Have you set it up beside a Swaro??

Lots of interesting info here. Im thinking about upgrading my luepold gold ring! Ive kinda put Leicas on the side, simply cause they only go to 50x, A buddy has the Ziess 20-75x its real nice, another buddy has the Swaro 80 HD. going to set those two up side by side.... But ive also had an intesest in Kowa!! I havent heard much about the Kowa's but when I have its always been good.

I have a 773. It has been set up beside a Swaro 20-60X65. Results here. http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?77269-Swaro-HD-65-VS-the-Kowa-773-compro

If you are in the lower mainland and would like to set it up beside your Leupold, the Ziess, and the Swaro shoot me a pm and we'll see what we can do.

[Jagermeister]

I have a 773. It has been set up beside a Swaro 20-60X65. Results here. http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?77269-Swaro-HD-65-VS-the-Kowa-773-compro

If you are in the lower mainland and would like to set it up beside your Leupold, the Ziess, and the Swaro shoot me a pm and we'll see what we can do.
Sorry to shoot holes in your test, but you have apples vs oranges..... Not a fair test.

The 77mm objective is going to draw in more light then a 65mm. Plain and simple. Doesn't matter if its a Bushnell, Leica, or Kowa.

You need to redo the test comparing identical scopes. Power and objective size....


Maybe someone could provide a 66mm Kowa to compare to a 65mm Swaro, Leica or Zeiss.

[MattW]

I've got the Kowa Prominar TSN 664. It's been a great spotter, very bright and clear. We've used it on a couple sheep hunts and you can tell from several kilometers away if a sheep is worth a closer look, sheep you can't even see with the naked eye. The Swarovskis are awesome too.

[MattW]

Maybe someone could provide a 66mm Kowa to compare to a 65mm Swaro, Leica or Zeiss.

Yeah, I could if you're in the LML

[pescado]

Maybe someone could provide a 66mm Kowa to compare to a 65mm Swaro, Leica or Zeiss.

I have the TSN-664 Kowa Prominar and have run it up against the non-hd 65 Swaro. It will run with the non-hd all day and than some to my eyes. Now the HD 65 Swaro might be another story. Would like to run that comparison. I do know the Kowa balances much better on the tripod and is very friendly to use. I was originally going to go with a Nikon but after waiting for a month and still not receiving it I canceled the order and went with Kowa and I'm glad I did.

[Jagermeister]

Statement taken from Kowa’s TSN-664 features web page
66MM OBJECTIVE LENS
The lens has more than 120% the light gathering capability of a 60mm objective lens, ensuring a bright field of view for observation.
This is simply not true and is a gross exaggeration and here is why.
The surface area of a 60mm objective lens is 2827.44 mm². The surface area of a 66mm objective lens is 3421.2 mm². The difference is 593.8 mm². This difference is 21% greater than the 60mm objective lens surface area.
Now consider Elkaddict’s claim of Kowa 773 supremacy over the Swarovski 65. The surface area of the 773 is 4656.6 mm². The Swarovski 65 has a surface area of 3318.3 mm² resulting in a difference of 1338.3 mm² or 40% more area. Of course the larger objective lens is going to gather more light, that’s a no brainer.
A balanced comparison for the Kowa 773 would be the Swarovski 80 mm because the difference in objective lens surface area is less than 1% between these two scopes.

[MattW]

Jagermeister- Not to be argumentative but I believe the ad is correct then. When they say that "the lens has more than 120% of the light gathering ability of a 60mm" it is another way of saying that the lens has 20% more light gathering ability. If they had said "the lens has 120% more" that would have been incorrect. If we were comparing two lenses and found them equal we could say that lens A has 100% of the light gathering of lens B and it would be correct, though it's a funny way to word things. If we said lens A has 100% more than lens B we would be saying that lens A has double the light gathering. It's all about wording.
I think Elkaddict only compared the 773 to the 65mm Swarovski because that's what he had available, no one said it was fair though and it is good to point that out to a prospective buyer.
In the end they're all good, get what you like.

[The Hermit]

Glass Snobs! LOL

Jager is partially correct... of course the Kowa 770 blows all the competitor's 65mm scopes away... its not a fair comparison at all. I hate to have to say this directly but to my eyes the Swaro 65 HD is nicer than the Kowa 66 HD ... but not hundreds of dollars plus better!!!

I have had numerous side by side comparisons between the Swaro 80 HD and the Kowa 770 with dozens of people and not a single person has said that one was significantly better than the other in very low light conditions. Almost everyone likes the focus mechanism on the KOWA way better than the Swaro. Again easily over $700 difference on the body & eye piece package!

The KOWA 880 Series is however the KING and is much less expensive than the biggest and bestus Swaro!!

As to the argument that "less expensive" must in some way mean "not as good"... consider the volume produced and the brand gouging factors. I understand that Globally Kowa sells more binos and spotters annually than Swaro, Leica, and Zeiss COMBINED... care guess how many bird watchers there are out there compared to hunters?

[The Hermit]

BTW - I still have one pair of demo Kowa Genesis 8.5x44mm binos for sale at 40% off retail. Perfect Condition and full lifetime warranty. $1000. (Yes they are every bit as nice as the Swarovision too! LOL

[Rust]

Interesting info guys. Thanks elkaddic for the offer of comparison but i'm in alberta. I have put my gold ring up beside the swaro 65 and 3 of us all agreed that that swaro was not any better then the gold ring. But the 80 on the other hand was (prob more to do with gathering light). If im going to upgrade it has to be in that 80mm range to see any benifit. Near as I can tell the Kowa 88 is 1" shorter and only 5 oz heavier then the swaro 80 (pretty sure that is just the bodies though) Would love to set up the Kowa 88 beside the Ziess and Swaro though!!! :-)

[lorneparker1]

Is there such thing as knock off swaros? Cause I cant imagine a gold ring even holing a candle to any swaro ive looked through! Ive owned a gold ring.

[Rust]

Is there such thing as knock off swaros? Cause I cant imagine a gold ring even holing a candle to any swaro ive looked through! Ive owned a gold ring.

Def not saying anything wrong with the Swaro, but since i own a gold ring buying the swaro 65 is not much or enough of an upgrade to me! JMHO though.

[Chopper]

Is there such thing as knock off swaros? Cause I cant imagine a gold ring even holing a candle to any swaro ive looked through! Ive owned a gold ring.
You cant imagine because they cant ... I looked through every piece of glass out there before I bought my Swaro. I bought my Swaro because it was by far the best. Leupold were quite good but ... not even in the same class as the Swaro. For those that are trying to throw Kowa in the mix ... lol

[Jagermeister]

It basically boils down to those that don't own Swarovski, Lieca or Zeiss glass having a need to try to validate their Kowas.
If you bought a Kowa, be happy with your purchase. You saved some money, you could have saved more if you bought a Leupold or Kikon. There is no need for you to justify your purchase by trying to compare it to superior glass.

[RiverOtter]

Lotsa glass is in the 90-98% of the top 3, for a fair bit less money.

All boils down to what that extry little bit of detail, clarity and brightness is worth to you and how much money you got/wanna spend to procure it......

[srupp]

hmmm when you drive 700-1200 kms then use a river boat for hours then hike for days..by that time you have plenty invested..that little extra detail...that little extra clarity..that little extra brightness..when it all boils down to it THOSE are exactly the differences needed to make that once in a life decision on that once in a life animal..Clayton Mack once told me..."hunting is all the time looky looky see..once you find them you can pretty well use any gun...

I was able to see huge differnces in the Leupold Gold ring spotting scope ..and that was better than kowa...the only reason Shockey is using leupold spotters is because he is sponsored by the company= free gear...not that its the best..

buy the best you can afford..look at it as an investment in your eyes, your results..

steven

[goinghunting]

I've had a leupold gold ring side by side with a swaro 65mm on a band of rams that were quite along way away, the leupolds optical quality and clarity wasnt bad next to the swaro but only going to 45x compared to the 65x of the swaro made it useless! If your not sheep hunting were that 1/4 makes all the difference I think the leupold is more then enough scope and a good deal for the price, but if your sheep hunting it just doesn't have the zoom capabilities.

[Chopper]

I've had a leupold gold ring side by side with a swaro 65mm on a band of rams that were quite along way away, the leupolds optical quality and clarity wasnt bad next to the swaro but only going to 45x compared to the 65x of the swaro made it useless! If your not sheep hunting were that 1/4 makes all the difference I think the leupold is more then enough scope and a good deal for the price, but if your sheep hunting it just doesn't have the zoom capabilities.
This is exactly why I didn't buy a Leupold gold ring

[325]

I've had a leupold gold ring side by side with a swaro 65mm on a band of rams that were quite along way away, the leupolds optical quality and clarity wasnt bad next to the swaro but only going to 45x compared to the 65x of the swaro made it useless! If your not sheep hunting were that 1/4 makes all the difference I think the leupold is more then enough scope and a good deal for the price, but if your sheep hunting it just doesn't have the zoom capabilities.

Yeah, high magnification/low light is where quality glass separates intself from the mid-grade glass

[eastkoot]

I recently purchased an older Swaro Habicht 80mm 20x60 and also use leica binos and have older Zeiss Diavari scopes on my rifles.. Even though the spotter is older, it is some of the finest optics I've looked through. Glass is superb.. I saved cash by buying used but top optics are for a lifetime and well worth the initial outlay..

[knightcc]

These are endless debates but some good info on here from guys with lots of knowledge. Of the big three, I liked the Swaro for image quality and clarity. However, I thought that the Zeiss had better colour rendition for my eyes. I didn't like the Leica.

In the end however, I bought a Kowa and I am happy.

[The Hermit]

Do some research on the birding sites... SRUPP's assertion that the Leupold was better than the Kowa is totally absurd... troll! LOL

[Jagermeister]

I don't know why people think that birders are the epitome of optical knowledge. What do ornithologists have to determine aside from identifying the bird and usually at very close distances?
I think hunters are far better judges of optics than birders. Afterall, hunters have to rely on their optics to count rings on a ram's horns, check to see if there are indeed 6 points on that elk at 400 yards or that is a billy and not a nanny.
Now whether or not Leupold is better than Kowa is open to debate.
It always seems that the Kowa proponents have to try to validate their Kowa even when the thread is specific to a Swarovski question.

[Elkaddict]

Interesting info guys. Thanks elkaddic for the offer of comparison but i'm in alberta. I have put my gold ring up beside the swaro 65 and 3 of us all agreed that that swaro was not any better then the gold ring. But the 80 on the other hand was (prob more to do with gathering light). If im going to upgrade it has to be in that 80mm range to see any benifit. Near as I can tell the Kowa 88 is 1" shorter and only 5 oz heavier then the swaro 80 (pretty sure that is just the bodies though) Would love to set up the Kowa 88 beside the Ziess and Swaro though!!! :-)

Hey Rust, this may be of interest to you if you are still interested in comparing the Swaro, Ziess, and Kowa. http://www.birdwatchersdigest.net/pdfs/HIGH_END_SCOPES_REVIEW/index.html Nothing can replace an actual hands on comparison, but this may give you a little more insight. I find it interesting after all the squabbling here, that buried somewhere in this article it says that they had to go to 100X (by using a doubler) to discern real differences between the scopes. The piece is a far cry from this brand or that brand being crap. All in all I think it is a well written, unbiased article that spells out how good ALL the top scopes are.

Jagermiester, on pages 48-49 there is a description of why birders look for optical excellence. Noticing the details in the veins of the wings of a cicada at 80 yds would not be possible with inferior optics. No, they are not counting rings on sheep horns at a km. + but they require the same resolution for what they do. A lot of birders are also into digiscoping. That too requires excellent resolution and colour rendition, part of the reason they often seek out ED glass.

[wlbc]

Good link Elkaddict.

Here is another link that I found useful in my education.

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/gear/scopes/compare

[The Hermit]

Jager - I find it interesting that the brand loyal (blinded) Swaro guys on here seem to put down the Kowa... must be the need to justify having spent more money for no gain or worse! LOL

WLBC - the scopes listed in that chart are a few years old now.

In 2013 KOWA came out with a new eyepiece for the 880 and 770 series scopes which is comparable to the Leica and Swaro wide angle zooms preferred by the judges in the review posted by ElkAddict giving them the edge for overall image. So I'm wondering how they would all line up comparing the same eyepieces?

Dear Kowa Sporting Optics Dealer,

Kowa has finally released the details of the long awaited Prominar 25-60X Zoom Eyepiece for the TSN-880/770 Series Spotting Scopes. This is a significant upgrade from the current zoom eyepiece with a relatively minimal increase in cost. The optical construction contains two XD lenses, a first for any Kowa eyepiece. Compared to the TE-10Z, the new TE-11WZ provides a wider field of view by approximately 20%. Images are delivered with outstanding sharpness, even at 60x magnification while eliminating virtually any chromatic aberration. Eye relief of 17mm is maintained throughout the magnification range. Details follow below.

1. Specifications: This is a 25x - 60x wide angle eyepiece. Throughout the entire range of magnification, the field of view is approximately 22% wider than the existing 20x-60x zoom eyepiece. When compared to current high end competitive products, it rates wider than all others as you can see in the following charts:

· Note that the Kowa and Swarovski ATS80HD eyepieces are the only ones with a 42m field of view. This translates into 130 feet to about 75 feet. The Kowa wide angle eyepiece magnifies to 60x. We are the only manufacturer with a zoom eyepiece that has a combination of the widest field of view and the most magnification.
· The weight of the new zoom eyepiece is favorable when compared to the competition. It is lighter than the Leica and the Zeiss offerings but heavier than the Swarovski.
· Note that across the board, the new wide angle eyepieces are heavier than the conventional zoom eyepieces.

IF anyone want al lthe specs I can email them as I can't seem to get the chart to paste in here...

[pescado]

The 880 Kowa gets some great reviews. There are a lot of good choices now which can make buying even more difficult. Swaro did up the ante with the Atx - Stx system, not sure if it will be enough for them to hang on to selling scopes at there prices though. Good times for people that are into researching and buying and have lots of timebecause there is a lot of information out there.

[Jagermeister]

The thread name is "Re: Swarovski spotters ". The question was about Swarovski, nothing else, title specific.
Then along come the Kowa fraternity and highjack the thread.

[donny.brooke]

Good link Elkaddict.

Here is another link that I found useful in my education.

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/gear/scopes/compare
Looks like the leica wins in this test if i can read the results correctly

[Jagermeister]

Oh gee! Check this link out.
http://archive.audubonmagazine.org/features1003/betterbirding.html
Guess what? No Kowa to be seen.
The aricle author wrote,

I suggest the most product you can afford, even if it means stretching your budget a bit. You will amortize the extra cost over the scope’s long, useful life; more important, you will never regret purchasing one that is too good.
And should the owner of a scope want to update, he who owns a Leica, Swavorski or Zeiss will recover more of their money on a resale.

[Elkaddict]

I do apologize to the OP for the sideways direction of this thread, however....


Oh gee! Check this link out.
http://archive.audubonmagazine.org/features1003/betterbirding.html
Guess what? No Kowa to be seen.

Gee, but he does mention Nikon 3X and (gasp) Vortex!!! Does this mean that these Asian glass models ARE comparable to the big 3??


It always seems that the Kowa proponents have to try to validate their Kowa even when the thread is specific to a Swarovski question.

I am validating nothing JM, if you look back through the thread, my first reference to Kowa was in answer to a specific point made by the OP. The second reference was in answer to a specific question TO ME, from another member regarding my Kowa and a Swaro. I simply answered the question.


Now consider Elkaddict’s claim of Kowa 773 supremacy over the Swarovski 65.

Jagermeister, if you would like to take the time to go back over the Kowa vs. Swaro thread linked earlier, this thread, and even one more thread I participated in (titled swaro 20-60 65mm) I think you will find I have never, not once claimed Kowa supremacy over the Swaro. (I wasn't even the OP of the Kowa 773 Vs Swaro 65 thread.)

As a matter of fact, for the most part you will find posts similar to this.



I am not saying The Big Three are not exceptional glass. I am not saying the Kowa are superior. I am merely saying that anyone considering buying a scope should consider looking around and making an informed decision before you plunk down your hard earned cash instead of blindly believing the "if it's not Euro glass, it's junk" mantra. There are some excellent scopes out there that are not made in Europe and have excellent optics and better price points than European glass.

Anywho, sorry everyone, don't want to bore you, just felt the need to correct a little misinformation:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[Jagermeister]

These threads are like a dog chasing it's tail, round and round. Basically never ending tale.
Maybe a sticky in the "Hunting Gear" forum directing people to this thread and the other from 2012 would preclude this repetative diatribe.
It comes down to what you are willing to pay for new "glass".
You know how it goes when you buy something when you had the deemed better quality item in mind. You end up disposing of the original purchase and buy what you originally intended. Like buying a Savage when you really considered a Sako.
With this in mind, there is no need to assuage us with your purchase. It's like saying, "I wish I had bought that Swarovski ATS 65HD instead."

[wlbc]

Looks like the leica wins in this test if i can read the results correctly

Yes, in that test, in that year it tested as the best. In other years Leica has been second and third.

Here is the thing though, the big three are all pretty damn good. I keep hearing Kowa is right up there, never had a chance to look through one but I'll take the assertion at face value until proven different as it also consistently rates well.

I would not argue that the Leica is the best, or the Swaro or Zeiss for that matter.

Back to that review or the one elkaddict put up in any given year one of the top guys will edge the other out according to some criteria - but they are all pretty good.

[wiggy]

The best of the best without a doubt is the televue 101 lol. Look through one of these and then wish that the waterproof units could come even close.

[Legi0n]

wow, I went to the Seattle Space Neeedle and on the deck there are Kowa binoculars and Swaro scopes mounted on for the public enjoyment.
The Swaros look quite old and used but I was able to read the writing on a UoW building across Lake Union. That's about 4.5km as the crow flies.
With my naked eye I couldn't even tell there's a writing on that building.
The Swaro image was so clear and un-distorted, I wished I had the money for one.
One really needs to look through a Swaro to be able to make a comparison.

[goinghunting]

This is an old thread but has anyone been able to compare a atx with an ats or atm?

[Stresd]

This is an old thread but has anyone been able to compare a atx with an ats or atm?

Lots of swaro comaparisions available on line

https://www.google.ca/search?q=atx&rlz=1C1AVSX_enCA398CA406&oq=atx&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=swarovski+atx+vs+ats

[prconnection]

Come on let's get seven more pages to discuss what's best:-P

[Beaverhunter]

Guys that own Swarovski always say good things about how them. Guys that's don't own them spend their time trying to justify why their cheaper ones are just as good if not better.

[Useyourfeet]

I've had Swarovski, then tried some other "just as good" mid price point spotters and I'm back with Swarovski. We are talking small improvements but to my eyes the swaros are best.

[okas]

Hum swaro and kowa just hold them and look thew them you can not go wrong either way . i have swaro as a bit in what you hear and read on this as them kowas are nice .
Binnos are for finding stuff then spotting to find out if you want what you found . This is where i do not like the strait scope neck goes down easy not back :roll:

[wiggy]

[QUOTE=okas;1744605]Hum swaro and kowa just hold them and look thew them you can not go wrong either way . i have swaro as a bit in what you hear and read on this as them kowas are nice .
Binnos are for finding stuff then spotting to find out if you want what you found . This is where i do not like the strait scope neck goes down easy not back :roll:[/QUOTE

With a 6x powermate on my televue you can spot things from distances that you cannot see with binocs.. With a 19x panoptic your field of view is wow. I lug the extra weight without issue. Enjoy every second spotting. The others cannot compete. Hell for fun at night I can beam in on the rings of Saturn

[okas]

i use 15x56 swaro for spotting and 8x42 for walking with ...... i am going to look at this powermate thing and a televue ? as i am blind here

[wiggy]

i use 15x56 swaro for spotting and 8x42 for walking with ...... i am going to look at this powermate thing and a televue ? as i am blind here

Ill try to get a couple photos lined up. Make sure you check out the bino attachment. Nothing comes close. NOTHING Just cant be scared to pack the extra weight
Game is a 19x or 25x panoptic lense with a 2x barlow and 2x bino viewer. Sit back and smile. You see it all

[wiggy]

Forgot Not cheap lol.