Removal of game causing environmental damage

[kilometers]

http://i38.tinypic.com/2ijj0wp.jpg

i seen these co doin something at one of my spots last year. I continued on my way and found some hunters who had actually begged two moose. One at this location And one down the way. I warned them about the co"s and they said they already spoke to them. At the time they were in the process of removing the other moose using ropes and quads. My wife had taken her moose outta the same swamp so I left to check my other spot.

Later My dad was talking to a co. And they said that some guys got two moose and used a quad to enter the swamp to recover the animal. It turns out the officers aloud them to recover both moose and then confiscated them and gave them a 2000 dollar fine for environmental damage to the area. Supposedly first moose was recovered with quad in swamp and other moose was shoot by his kid with no licence no pal. While his dad was in the swamp recovering other moose.

The co s in town I speak to everyonce in awhile say they are going to be coming down hard on guys causing damage to the environment. I watched some guys load a quad onto a boat and recovered their moose that way. And the co showed up later begging me for info. I played dumb.
I pack all my game outta sensitive areas now because of the regulation on atv in a swamp. Back in the day all of my dads moose where recovered by quad but gone are those days
this is more of a warning for others doin it the lazy way but was wondering if anybody else has seen or herd of stuff like this

[Everett]

Sounds like the CO's are doing there job nailing idiots with quads who using them in marsh land. Two thumbs up to the CO's.

[OutWest]

Sounds like the CO's are doing there job nailing idiots with quads who using them in marsh land. Two thumbs up to the CO's.

x2. That's something we as outdoorsmen should be happy about.

[aggiehunter]

we all need to move up to Shockeys area where he can ride his Argo any goddamn place he likes.....you see... the rich get richer....

[Everett]

we all need to move up to Shockeys area where he can ride his Argo any goddamn place he likes.....you see... the rich get richer....

Please exsplain?

[North]

The Yukon is one of the only places left in North America with no regulations on ATV or ORV use. Jim Shockey owns an outfit and hunts almost exclusively with Argos and can do pretty much whatever he wants. Most outfitters use horses and are good stewards of the land but not all.

Wish we had regulations like that up here. Some ATV users (not all as many ride responsibly, on trail and not in sensitive areas) do some pretty horrible stuff to wetlands and alpine areas.

The government just plays dumb as they fear regulations will limit mining/exploration and hurt the economy and would rather turn a blind eye to environmental damage. Pretty depressing as a resident hunter.

[325 wsm]

atv's are definitely ruining the land here in the Yukon as well. I don't think our Yukon gov't is allowed to tell certain user groups where they can ride atv's and are afraid to pass laws that will only affect some (controversy). Politicians and lawyers will drag it out as long as possible and for a lot of areas it will be too late before anything is done. More and more areas here will become LEH (especially sheep) due to atv access.

[RobRuger]

Its kind of a dangerous line to walk. I understand and agree that quads tear up the bush and marshland and should be used carefully, but moose are big animals and not all hunters are capable of getting to an animals location, especially after its ran aways, let alone pack it out. If it came down to it, is it better to tear up some land or possibly have to abandon a kill?

[OutWest]

Its kind of a dangerous line to walk. I understand and agree that quads tear up the bush and marshland and should be used carefully, but moose are big animals and not all hunters are capable of getting to an animals location, especially after its ran aways, let alone pack it out. If it came down to it, is it better to tear up some land or possibly have to abandon a kill?

If a hunter downs an animal in an area with no motor vehicle access then it is up to them to get it out accordingly. Tearing up a sensitive area with your quad usually has long-term negative impacts.

[.270boy]

The days of driving through wetlands and other sensitive areas is gone. We know better than that now (or should). Tread lightly.

[E.V.B.H.]

Its kind of a dangerous line to walk. I understand and agree that quads tear up the bush and marshland and should be used carefully, but moose are big animals and not all hunters are capable of getting to an animals location, especially after its ran aways, let alone pack it out. If it came down to it, is it better to tear up some land or possibly have to abandon a kill?

I think if you can't get it out responsibly, than you should not have shot it.

[Fella]

I think if you can't get it out responsibly, than you should not have shot it.

X2. Rob, would you feel the same way if someone shot a sheep even though they knew they wouldn't be able to recover it due to either impassable terrain or physical limitation ie. bad back? An outdoorsperson has a responsibility to ensure that everything he or she does is done ethically and that includes game recovery.

[BlacktailStalker]

There are several VERY popular 4x4/quading areas with game cams on the trails now. I know of someone who was brought in for questioning and charges for wheeling through the trails in his samurai north of campbell river. Pretty crazy. They couldn't see his face in the pics and there was only one license plate on the vehicle (rear) and they somehow got his info off his vehicle in his driveway (that was backed in) so they admitted to going into his yard to get the # to get his information or something like that. He turned it around on them pretty quick, they started stuttering and he walked out.

[40incher]

The Yukon is one of the only places left in North America with no regulations on ATV or ORV use. Jim Shockey owns an outfit and hunts almost exclusively with Argos and can do pretty much whatever he wants. Most outfitters use horses and are good stewards of the land but not all.

Wish we had regulations like that up here. Some ATV users (not all as many ride responsibly, on trail and not in sensitive areas) do some pretty horrible stuff to wetlands and alpine areas.

The government just plays dumb as they fear regulations will limit mining/exploration and hurt the economy and would rather turn a blind eye to environmental damage. Pretty depressing as a resident hunter.


It sounds like the guide area on the Upper Stikine has also gone to argos and quads since it changed hands recently. Will be interesting to see if the C.O.'s enforce the laws equally, or just pick on us poor resident hunters.

[knockturnal]

I heard that the COs busted 4 guys playing up in the mud at the top of Antlers Saddle and fined their pants off.

[kitnayakwa77]

There are several VERY popular 4x4/quading areas with game cams on the trails now. I know of someone who was brought in for questioning and charges for wheeling through the trails in his samurai north of campbell river. Pretty crazy. They couldn't see his face in the pics and there was only one license plate on the vehicle (rear) and they somehow got his info off his vehicle in his driveway (that was backed in) so they admitted to going into his yard to get the # to get his information or something like that. He turned it around on them pretty quick, they started stuttering and he walked out.


Sounds like part of a story. The Wildlife Act S.89 allows for officers to enter premises exercising duties under the Wildlife Act to enter any land whether enclosed or not.

[BlacktailStalker]

Sounds like part of a story. The Wildlife Act S.89 allows for officers to enter premises exercising duties under the Wildlife Act to enter any land whether enclosed or not.

Quite possibly. There are no posted signs there and people have been 'playing' in there for 40 years. The missing part of the story is related to the topic, it is apparently a sensitive area.... how sensitive trails behind a gravel pit and logged area can be, I don't know.
I could care less, I am just adding to the fact that yes they are enforcing destruction of certain areas and to use your head before you spin your tires just anywhere. If they can get more funding by fining guys up the ass within reason, so be it, it is just more $ to help them do things in areas that benefit all (poachers, vandals and skids that dump shit everywhere)

Off topic, that is a heck of a caribou in your avatar.

[steel_ram]

Pinning those that show wreckless disregard for the environment really works in favour for those act responsibly. The alternative would be a total blanket ban with the old adage, "a few bad apples . . . . ".

[Singleshotneeded]

I think if you can't get it out responsibly, than you should not have shot it.

Exactly, don't shoot something where you won't be able to retrieve it without doing damage.
ATV's are fun and useful, but we have a responsibilty to use them ethically and not damage the environment.
Stay on trails and firm terrain, and don't ride in sensitive areas.

[Ltbullken]

Please exsplain?

Are you a CO informant?!

[geoskier]

The government just plays dumb as they fear regulations will limit mining/exploration and hurt the economy and would rather turn a blind eye to environmental damage. Pretty depressing as a resident hunter.

The only difference is that mining companies are held accountable since there are site visits and reclamation bonds. Individual users do not receive such supervision.

I do agree though that motorized access needs to be regulated and enforced much more. I recently posted that some jerk was chasing a wolverine on his sled near Whistler (where they are not plentiful). Other jerks recently sled into Garibaldi Lake within Garibaldi Park (closed to sleds). People need to be held accountable or they will continue to do what they please! (I own a quad)

[kilometers]

There are several VERY popular 4x4/quading areas with game cams on the trails now. I know of someone who was brought in for questioning and charges for wheeling through the trails in his samurai north of campbell river. Pretty crazy. They couldn't see his face in the pics and there was only one license plate on the vehicle (rear) and they somehow got his info off his vehicle in his driveway (that was backed in) so they admitted to going into his yard to get the # to get his information or something like that. He turned it around on them pretty quick, they started stuttering and he walked out.

Trail cams. Hhhmmm now that's getting sneaky. Makes sense tho.

I have had this discussion with family and friends and I always get the. "How else are u suppose to retrieve them?"
Gut it ,quarter it. Remove fur if you want It lighter. Man up and pack it out. I honestly believe a lot of hunters wouldn't go if they had to pack it out on their backs

[rocksteady]

I heard that the COs busted 4 guys playing up in the mud at the top of Antlers Saddle and fined their pants off.

Good, asshats like that should be penalized...

[goatdancer]

The only difference is that mining companies are held accountable since there are site visits and reclamation bonds. Individual users do not receive such supervision.


If this was true , why are the taxpayers on the hook for the cleanup of an old gold mine up north? And thats only one of the many mines that need cleanup.

[Wade]

Ok , I can understand the co fining the guy for his kid having no licence and pal, but for charging the guy for environmental damage is bullshit I think. Everywhere you go in the bush around pg there are quad trails. For these trails to be made was environmental damage, but now they are just trails.

[500grhollowpoint]

I agree. The whole "enviromental damage" thing is out of control. They go way overboard. I agree we shouldn't be ripping shit up, but who gives a rats ass if you drive your quad through a field. Things like the postill mud bogs are why they have taken this way too far, and people leaving trash and bottles everywhere. Aint no reason I can't drive my quad through a stream or gently through the bush......or through a muddy wet spot to get a dead moose.

[benttip]

logging damage compared to quad is just a laugh..all about getting more ways to get the "FUNDS"...lol..

[Whonnock Boy]

Ok , I can understand the co fining the guy for his kid having no licence and pal, but for charging the guy for environmental damage is bullshit I think. Everywhere you go in the bush around pg there are quad trails. For these trails to be made was environmental damage, but now they are just trails.

It all starts with the first quadder going in and getting his moose. The next guy rolls up and says to himself, "hey, looks like someone had their quad in here. I'm going to check it out". Then the next guy, and that guy goes a little further, and so on, and so on, and so on..... Next thing you know, there are quad trails all over just like PG, and there's no moose around. Go figure.........

[Singleshotneeded]

Yup, there's a bit of common sense required, unfortunately these days it's getting to be like a freaking superpower!! :-P

[steel_ram]

Some people just don't get it.

[hunter1993ap]

It all starts with the first quadder going in and getting his moose. The next guy rolls up and says to himself, "hey, looks like someone had their quad in here. I'm going to check it out". Then the next guy, and that guy goes a little further, and so on, and so on, and so on..... Next thing you know, there are quad trails all over just like PG, and there's no moose around. Go figure.........
exactly! and people wonder why theres no animals around:twisted:

[Wade]

Then they should take quads right out of hunting altogether

[KTownKiller]

I'm in total support of the COs. If you can't pack game out of a sensitive area without a quad, DON'T SHOOT IT!!! Some people are way to lazy!

[E.V.B.H.]

Then they should take quads right out of hunting altogether

Quads have their uses for hunting. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. They save gas, do less damage to roads, and save wear and tear on your vehicle. But they have no place driving off road just driving around randomly in the bush. It's an unsustainable practice and the few that continue to do it are going to get it shut down for the rest of us. Use your head and think about the future. I also support heavier fines for lazy people. Wade this is not meant to be directed at you personally, but people who think its okay need to rethink their opinions.

[Wade]

Quads have their uses for hunting. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. They save gas, do less damage to roads, and save wear and tear on your vehicle. But they have no place driving off road just driving around randomly in the bush. It's an unsustainable practice and the few that continue to do it are going to get it shut down for the rest of us. Use your head and think about the future. I also support heavier fines for lazy people. Wade this is not meant to be directed at you personally, but people who think its okay need to rethink their opinions. Hi E.V.H.B I think your right, I have a quad and I use it for hunting as well. I try to respect the land and environment as much as I can. Most of my hunting is on foot, I use my quad to get me to a place I wanna hunt, then I usually stash it off the road or trail somewhere. I enjoy hunting on foot the most, and I see way more game.
Wade

[geoskier]

If this was true , why are the taxpayers on the hook for the cleanup of an old gold mine up north? And thats only one of the many mines that need cleanup.

What happened in the past is quite different from the current regulations. I agree that historically there has been a lot of negligence and lack of governmental oversight. The current environmental regulations are much stronger than they were in the past.

[steel_ram]

"Zero tolerence", is usually the last step between "ban". Behave yourselves boys. Many CO's would ban road "hunting" from MVs if they could.

[RobRuger]

Ive had quads ruin my hunts on several occassions. Personally, id like to see them eliminate them from hunting all together. Now i know this isnt going to happen, but between this enviromental damage, and the constant breaking of quad restrictions for hunting, those that are irresponsible are making it an uphill battle for quadders.


Quads are expensive, me and some friends were talking, and its kind of a general consensus that they are an unfair advantage to those without them. My argument was that a vehicle can pose the same unfair advantage to those without.

[Fred1]

Yup, there's a bit of common sense required, unfortunately these days it's getting to be like a freaking superpower!! :-P

Perfect! !

[Surrey Boy]

Ive had quads ruin my hunts on several occassions. Personally, id like to see them eliminate them from hunting all together. Now i know this isnt going to happen, but between this enviromental damage, and the constant breaking of quad restrictions for hunting, those that are irresponsible are making it an uphill battle for quadders.


Quads are expensive, me and some friends were talking, and its kind of a general consensus that they are an unfair advantage to those without them. My argument was that a vehicle can pose the same unfair advantage to those without.

Working gives you money to spend, on an ATV if you so choose.

[RobRuger]

I Agree with you Surrey Boy, I dont wanna get grief because i can afford a rifle and someone else has to make a bow to use. Its my thought that its more of an unfair advantage to game then to other hunters.

[Fella]

pretty sure a rifle is an unfair advantage to game too

[ruger#1]

Hi E.V.H.B I think your right, I have a quad and I use it for hunting as well. I try to respect the land and environment as much as I can. Most of my hunting is on foot, I use my quad to get me to a place I wanna hunt, then I usually stash it off the road or trail somewhere. I enjoy hunting on foot the most, and I see way more game.
Wade It is not just hunters. There are a lot of weekend warriors ripping up hill sides and going threw swamps. I have some idiot neighbours that think it is fun. They do not even own rifles.

[E.V.B.H.]

It is not just hunters. There are a lot of weekend warriors ripping up hill sides and going threw swamps. I have some idiot neighbours that think it is fun. They do not even own rifles.

We see this way to much here in the east kootenays. Every weekend trucks and trailers coming in from Alberta and headed to kocanusa, every year more trails and destroyed winter range. The C.O.s can't keep up with it all.

I don't know how much of an unfair advantage quads really are, they are loud and scare lots of stuff off before you get there. Most people that can afford to hunt could probably afford a small payment or used one if they really wanted it. Now horses in the other hand, most people can't logistically own a horse and that opens up way more terrain. I hate walking half a day into somewhere and then some guy on a horse trots up behind you. Lets ban horses.:-D

[geoskier]

Or we could ban all fly in hunting since it is expensive and allows you to scope out an area before hand...

I would not support banning these things except - guides using planes to track down sheep. They must be causing stress to the wildlife just like sledders and heli skiers are to goats. No way to enforce it though.

[steel_ram]

Or we could ban all fly in hunting since it is expensive and allows you to scope out an area before hand...

I would not support banning these things except - guides using planes to track down sheep. They must be causing stress to the wildlife just like sledders and heli skiers are to goats. No way to enforce it though.

True . . . . but that's not what this particular thread is about. As we say to little children, "two wrongs don't make it right".

[Fred1]

However you look at our uses of modern machines they are all here to stay. Quads, snowmobiles, dirt bikes, planes, helicopters and even horses are here to stay. You will see people out on our crown's land using them, sometimes in ways we dont approve of. Lets face it, ripping up the mud on a quad is great fun!! Our laws regarding the use of these things is pretty loose. Which is still a good thing. Our gracious gov't can come up with all kinds of laws and regulations to protect the commons from the people until there are no commons left and its all park. Very costly for a provincial population of what 2.5 million? And very limiting. The Americans have become very good at this. RAPP is a great idea. If you see something you dont approve of out there, observe record and report. It works! There are threads here at HBC that will attest to it. Help our very limited CO's do a better job. In the end these are "our" wild spaces, lets do what we think is right to protect what we have. There will always be throttle heads, yahoos, super heros, fly boys and week end rodeos. That stuff is fun! Not everyone has to approve of it, personally dirt bikes piss me off. I dont ride one. They are noisy and chew up the trails and road sides, but it sure looks like fun!! I guess my point is, if your are using our outdoors, how you want to use it, you have a some moral obligaion to respect it as just that. "OUR", everyones (critters included) outdoors so treat it with respect.

[OutWest]

I agree. The whole "enviromental damage" thing is out of control. They go way overboard. I agree we shouldn't be ripping shit up, but who gives a rats ass if you drive your quad through a field. Things like the postill mud bogs are why they have taken this way too far, and people leaving trash and bottles everywhere. Aint no reason I can't drive my quad through a stream or gently through the bush......or through a muddy wet spot to get a dead moose.

Maybe if you had the slightest clue what the function of that "muddy wet spot" was you'd be singing a different tune, probably not though.

[KTownKiller]

I agree. The whole "enviromental damage" thing is out of control. They go way overboard. I agree we shouldn't be ripping shit up, but who gives a rats ass if you drive your quad through a field. Things like the postill mud bogs are why they have taken this way too far, and people leaving trash and bottles everywhere. Aint no reason I can't drive my quad through a stream or gently through the bush......or through a muddy wet spot to get a dead moose.

Not necessarily what your referring to, but that stream could have spawning fish, and the silt will kill the eggs. Instead of ripping up wet lands to get your moose, man up and pack it out on your back! Or find something else to do!

[500grhollowpoint]

Lol I thought this was huntbc not hippiebc. Give me a break, "Oh you can't drive there, your tracks will be there in a year still" So what. You are a bunch of hypocrates. There used to be bush where your house is, can't beleive it. That house will be there for years! Oh the humanity!

[Marlin375]

We see this way to much here in the east kootenays. Every weekend trucks and trailers coming in from Alberta and headed to kocanusa, every year more trails and destroyed winter range. The C.O.s can't keep up with it all.

I don't know how much of an unfair advantage quads really are, they are loud and scare lots of stuff off before you get there. Most people that can afford to hunt could probably afford a small payment or used one if they really wanted it. Now horses in the other hand, most people can't logistically own a horse and that opens up way more terrain. I hate walking half a day into somewhere and then some guy on a horse trots up behind you. Lets ban horses.:-D

Ban Cows while your at it......I have seen a few places that the range cows have made a horrible mess, way worse than the quad trail I was on........I think we need to define "environmentally sensitive area" before we get too carried away with litigation. Penalizing a guy for a set of quad tracks to a moose that died off the trail is ridiculous. Punks flinging mud around in a spawning channel is considerably different. Hopefully common sense will prevail when the CO shows up while I am extracting my moose by any means available, usually a block or two and a length of rope.

[kgs]

I should be allowed to use my atv in most places for hunting and if places are restricted i will not use it; but seriously atv are not the problem its the idiots who abuse everything and ruin it for everyone. I hunt all over the PG area and have yet to find any area not touched by man. if there is a road or trail or river man has been there so using an atv is only natural. I disagree that an atv is ruining the environment have you ever seen whats left behind after they build a road or a what a logging company leaves behind when they leave. Not to mention all the idiots who dump their garbage in the bush. There is more important things to worry about other than atv's. In My Opinion! As for the CO's I am not a big fan but have to agree they are doing their job its to bad there is too few of them. Might actually help bring back some moose by preventing poaching.

[Wade]

I agree with you kgs

[Big7]

Lol I thought this was huntbc not hippiebc. Give me a break, "Oh you can't drive there, your tracks will be there in a year still" So what. You are a bunch of hypocrates. There used to be bush where your house is, can't beleive it. That house will be there for years! Oh the humanity!

You ever heard the saying that "hunters are some of the best conservationists?" Apperently not. Think first then speak.

[steel_ram]

What did hunters do before ATV's? . . . . . Not shoot animals where they aren't easily recovered, otherwise pay the price and learn. Most old timers, myself included learned that lesson the hard way. Sticking to that rule will save a lot of moose. Who knows, that could even given everyone a longer season.

[Surrey Boy]

What did hunters do before ATV's? . . . . . Not shoot animals where they aren't easily recovered, otherwise pay the price and learn. Most old timers, myself included learned that lesson the hard way. Sticking to that rule will save a lot of moose. Who knows, that could even given everyone a longer season.

Before ATVs, hunters and all other men were generally tougher.

Back when I was a farmhand, I went out hunting and bagged a nice little blacktail. I gutted it and then walked back to the car with it over my shoulder. One of my partners was impressed that I was able to pack so much, but to be honest, it was like an alfalfa bale, only softer. I don't think I could do that today.

[redneckjoe]

When I was in Finland, hunters asked me why North Americans are so lazy they need quads....

Speaking of which: does B.C. has a special permit for people with disability to use quads in sensitive areas?

[Singleshotneeded]

When I was in Finland, hunters asked me why North Americans are so lazy they need quads....

Speaking of which: does B.C. has a special permit for people with disability to use quads in sensitive areas?

Yes, I'm pretty sure. A friend of mine has a permit to have a loaded gun in his truck and fire from the window...he's
paralyzed from the waist down.
CO's causing problems for hunters retrieving game with a quad, unless it's really sensitive terrain, is a joke. Look at
what any mine or the tarsands does to the environment...:-D