Kootenays - Anterless Elk - 4-3 zoneX Sept 20-30...still on in 2013?

[IslandmanDan]

Hey everyone, I just got word from one of the ranchers we hunt with in the Kootenays. She was saying that there is probably not going to be an anterless elk season for this area this September...

Anyone heard any news regarding this?
It all seems the same as last year to me.....
Have my early fall hunt planned for some anterless elk....oh, boy!:confused:

[aggiehunter]

Zone X...does anyone know if that stands for X terminate...

[.300WSMImpact!]

people have been saying that rumor on HBC for a bit now, but no official statement yet, I hope if they do they give enough notice for plans to be changed

[benttip]

i know folks who already have booked accommodation and stuff..u think they would give notice at the begging of a new year.../

[bugler]

The managers believe they have more than reached the reduction in elk population they were going for in the Trench (403X) so they are going to manage antlerless elk with LEH going forward. If they manage to get it changed for this year the book will be wrong and they will have to do a lot of PR to get the message out. Pretty sure there will be no GOS for antlerless elk in 2014 if not this year.

[J_T]

To be clear, I don't think a change is impacting the early bow only season. If the GOS antlerless season is at risk, I hope they consider a bow season in place of the GOS instead of going directly to LEH. Would hate to lose hunter opportunity.

[Everett]

There will be a antlerless elk GOS in the EK this year regardless of what the ministry does now. As long as you have a set of regs in your truck and deny knowing they have changed the season (which I highly doubt they will after we have had the mildest winter in 20+ years) you are good to go. Its the exact same for the three deer limit as long as you don't know they have changed it back to 2 deer you can shoot 3. This is the problem with doing regs for a 2 year period.
Oh there is no shortage of Elk in the Ek regardles of what the old men of Cranbrook, Kimberley and the Elk Valley will tell you.

[bugler]

The numbers aren't coming from the old men. Straight from the pretty blond gal in the MOE office. They have achieved the target reduction, that is all.

[aggiehunter]

....just keep saying I don't know...eg. nobody actually told me bank robbery was illegal....

[Onesock]

I think it is the hunters business to know the hunting regs no matter as the regs change all the time.

[Everett]

I think it is the hunters business to know the hunting regs no matter as the regs change all the time.

Sounds good to me but it don't mean shit in a court of law.

[boxhitch]

You have some background with that Everett ?

probably why the regs are noted to be only a synopsis of the hunting regulations , no more, no less, not meant to stand up in court.
Hunters are suggested to know the wildlife act and the regulations

From page 2
You and the Law
The British Columbia Hunting and Trapping Regulations Synopsis is intended for general information purposes only. Where there is a discrepancy between the Synopsis and the Regulations, the Regulations are the final authority. Regulations are subject to change from time to time , and it is the responsibility of an individual to be informed of the current Regulations.

[Everett]

All a guy who has been charged with shooting lets say a 3rd deer this year has to say to judge is I have the regs right hear your honour and I don't have that internet thing. Thats reasonable doubt case dismissed. Now if the guy is a real scum bag he than sues the ministry of enviroment for the cost of the beef he had to buy because of the deer the took off him.
Two year regs are a joke.

[boxhitch]

With all the reduction of gov't and the shortage of operating budgets , it may soon go longer than two years.
Anything more sensitive that can't tolerate such a long term will be further restricted 'just to be safe'

And not having internet is no argument , Front Counter BC is open.

[boxhitch]

Region 4 holds regular FHRAC meetings don't they ?
What are the proposals put forth ?

[Everett]

With all the reduction of gov't and the shortage of operating budgets , it may soon go longer than two years.
Anything more sensitive that can't tolerate such a long term will be further restricted 'just to be safe'

And not having internet is no argument , Front Counter BC is open.

So if we buy that theory anyone who dosn't have the internet has to drop by Front Counter BC before they go hunting for the day. Who is going to pay for that persons gas to get to a front counter and are they open on weekends. No judge will buy that sort of crap and no CO with a brain will inforce it. The goverment made this mess and now we have to live with it.

[bugler]

If they do make the change for this year I'm sure they will put notices in the papers, sport shops, radio, etc. It would be difficult to argue that you had no way of knowing.

I agree that the two year regs kinda suck, for this reason, but can't be an excuse for not knowing. After all, it's right in there that you can't completely rely on them. I do believe a CO would charge you for shooting 3 deer in Reg 4 this year despite what the paper copy says.

[Everett]

If they do make the change for this year I'm sure they will put notices in the papers, sport shops, radio, etc. It would be difficult to argue that you had no way of knowing.

I agree that the two year regs kinda suck, for this reason, but can't be an excuse for not knowing. After all, it's right in there that you can't completely rely on them. I do believe a CO would charge you for shooting 3 deer in Reg 4 this year despite what the paper copy says.

I also would like to think so but I highly doubt it cops of all sorts hate to spend time in court when they have no chance of conviction.

[boxhitch]

So if we buy that theory anyone who dosn't have the internet has to drop by Front Counter BC before they go hunting for the day. Ignorance is never a valid argument in court. People have to be responsible to be informed.

The goverment made this mess and now we have to live with it.Yuppers

[IslandmanDan]

Ok, so for now its open...based on the previous regs, but there has been some MFLNR talk of it being closed for this upcoming 2013 season? So until something gets posted its business as usual? or hunting as usual?

[rocksteady]

Comparing the change of the elk season versus the change they made to the deer last year is apples and oranges..

How many Hunters at the time of the deer bag limit change would it really affect? Plus it was mid season (almost over) so the CO's were not gonna try to enforce it...

Change to the elk season, easy... Post the notice on the internet updates list, copy to all licence Sellers say to post on the counter... 2 months prior to the season opener...an old copy of the regs would NOT provide you with a defence....

[bugler]

Ok, so for now its open...based on the previous regs, but there has been some MFLNR talk of it being closed for this upcoming 2013 season? So until something gets posted its business as usual? or hunting as usual?

That pretty much sums it up. I would have a plan B ready though as it very well may not be GOS for cows this year.

[rocksteady]

I too heard from a very reliable source that it will be gone for.2013..

[Everett]

Comparing the change of the elk season versus the change they made to the deer last year is apples and oranges..

How many Hunters at the time of the deer bag limit change would it really affect? Plus it was mid season (almost over) so the CO's were not gonna try to enforce it...

Change to the elk season, easy... Post the notice on the internet updates list, copy to all licence Sellers say to post on the counter... 2 months prior to the season opener...an old copy of the regs would NOT provide you with a defence....

Ok Rock I will be the designated asshole on this one I already have my license and tags I live rural don't get the paper and no internet no wildlife infractions. I show up in front of a Judge after being charged with a up to date synopsis in my hand not only am I walking I have grounds for a civil suit against the local MOE and the CO in question.

[E.V.B.H.]

You are posting on the Internet. It would be pretty easy for them to prove you have accesses to it. A C.O. Would find this out pretty easily, eliminating your defence. If you are talking about if you hypothetically didn't have Internet service you might get away with it. But I highly doubt you would have lawsuit material because you did break the law regardless of if you were aware of it.

[Keta1969]

I live rural don't get the paper and no internet


You,re on the internet now.As others have said you have a synopsis with proposed regs that may change.I don't like in season changes either,causes all kinds of confusion but I wouldn't want to bet on getting off by pleading ignorance.As far as been an ahole I'd have to meet you first to make that call:-D

[The Silent Stalker]

Cancelling my internet, going shooting. Thanks boys, haha.

[Everett]

You are posting on the Internet. It would be pretty easy for them to prove you have accesses to it. A C.O. Would find this out pretty easily, eliminating your defence. If you are talking about if you hypothetically didn't have Internet service you might get away with it. But I highly doubt you would have lawsuit material because you did break the law regardless of if you were aware of it.

Dumb ass I am not speaking about myself can't you read.

[IslandmanDan]

That pretty much sums it up. I would have a plan B ready though as it very well may not be GOS for cows this year.


Plan B? Ha, with cows closed we might have to do some work and count points...I'll just look for a 6pt bull! Right?

[E.V.B.H.]

Dumb ass I am not speaking about myself can't you read.

No need to be a dick. It's not my fault you are wrong.

[IslandmanDan]

Boys, its all good. I will be following the current law/regulation, regardless of what the 2012/2013 synopsis says. I know we want to say "&^#$ *#@ when it comes to the 2 yr regs, and they are potentially closing the anterless/cow, but we really do have it better than anywhere in the whole world!

[rocksteady]

Ok Rock I will be the designated asshole on this one I already have my license and tags I live rural don't get the paper and no internet no wildlife infractions. I show up in front of a Judge after being charged with a up to date synopsis in my hand not only am I walking I have grounds for a civil suit against the local MOE and the CO in question.

Never said you were an asshole, just saying that I doubt your defence strategy would hold any water. And as far as a civil suit against MOE?? What about just appealling the ticket or the conviction first?

I have found if you want to argue with someone on this site, but want to not get painted as the designated asshole, I just premise it by saying "being devils advocate in this scenario....what if ...? "

[boblly1]

I agree with your blog it should be the hunters responsibility to know the facts or the courts only rule on what is in black and white.

[boxhitch]

OK then , back to your regular program


...........there is probably not going to be an anterless elk season for this area this September...
Anyone heard any news regarding this?

[6616]

Plan B? Ha, with cows closed we might have to do some work and count points...I'll just look for a 6pt bull! Right?

Apply for LEH, cows will still be available thru the LEH hunts, it's only the antlerless GOS that is proposed to be closed.

[benttip]

that system really sucks..lots of folks need to book holidays. motels . got the last room ,,all booked up for cow season..etc..which i already did and if they close x then totally not cool..if they know, which they quite obviously do then it should be posted by now..typical b.s. in my opinion..cost lots of folks

[HarryToolips]

Never hunted down there, but all this potential problem and messing it up for everyone is because of the two year reg cycle..what a pile of BS

[aggiehunter]

you guys sure say "dick" and "ass" alot...what kind of web chat line is this anyway..

[IslandmanDan]

Apply for LEH, cows will still be available thru the LEH hunts, it's only the antlerless GOS that is proposed to be closed.

I was fired up for the anterless GOS Elk, but I always put my LEH in for Island Elk...(maybe one of these decades!)
So I will have to look for a bull this fall...and some big whiteys hopefully.

[Rackmastr]

I was fired up for the anterless GOS Elk, but I always put my LEH in for Island Elk...(maybe one of these decades!)
So I will have to look for a bull this fall...and some big whiteys hopefully.

I'm not sure which is harder....finding a 'big whitey' in the East Kootenays or drawing that Island Elk tag, but I'd put money on the elk tag!!

[sawmill]

Apply for LEH, cows will still be available thru the LEH hunts, it's only the antlerless GOS that is proposed to be closed.

Not many draws here this year,a dozen or so I think.I`m not going to bother.I can live just fine on deer meat.

[Buckmeister]

I'm not sure which is harder....finding a 'big whitey' in the East Kootenays or drawing that Island Elk tag, but I'd put money on the elk tag!!

On our second to last cow elk hunt in the east koots, my pops saw one of his biggest white tails ever, but in typical white tail fashion it dissappeared pretty quick.



There will be a antlerless elk GOS in the EK this year regardless of what the ministry does now. As long as you have a set of regs in your truck and deny knowing they have changed the season (which I highly doubt they will after we have had the mildest winter in 20+ years) you are good to go. Its the exact same for the three deer limit as long as you don't know they have changed it back to 2 deer you can shoot 3. This is the problem with doing regs for a 2 year period.
Oh there is no shortage of Elk in the Ek regardles of what the old men of Cranbrook, Kimberley and the Elk Valley will tell you.

The law is the law. When it comes to the laws of the road, we are all responsible for knowing the laws. The last time I studied anything regarding driving and road laws was when I got my drivers license back in 1991, until, my daughter started studying for her drivers license over a year ago and I scanned through one of her books. I was surprised to find a few new laws and/or changes. I had never heard a news report or read a magazine regarding any changes or additions to these laws, and yet they exist. If I was caught contravening any of these laws, pleading ignorance wouldn't hold up cause it is MY responsibility to KNOW the laws. Driving is a privledge, not a right, so if I want to drive I had better be up to speed on the laws.

I believe the same goes for hunting laws. It is MY responsibility to be up to speed and fully aware of the current laws. As for the synopsis, there is little box on each of the regions main map page that says, "Check website www.env.gov.bc/fw/wildlife/hunting/news/ (http://www.env.gov.bc/fw/wildlife/hunting/news/) for in-season changes prior to your hunt."

And on page 2 of the current synopsis near the bottom of the page its says, "YOU and THE LAW: The British Columbia Hunting and Trapping Regulations Synopsis is intended for general information purposes only. Where there is a discrepancy between this Synopsis and the Regulations, the Regulations are the final authority. Regulations are subject to change from time to time, and it is the responsibility of an individual to be informed of the current Regulations."

That is fairly plain and clear. Plus, on page 2 on the bottom left corner, they explain a way of receiving instant web updates on the Regs via an RSS. Sure, not everyone has internet readily available to them, and not everyone has a phone either, but it is still every hunters responsibility to know the laws. The internet thing ticks me off though, banks and credit card companies and some other bills all want to send me e-bills, and if I want a paper statement I would be charged a fee. That made it really difficult when I lived way out of town with no internet or cell phone coverage, but when I went into town I used the internet at the library to receive my emails, and if I needed a paper copy for business reasons I downloaded the file to a gig stick and then printed it on my home printer.

Basically, if your mobile enough to hunt, your mobile enough to find the info needed to hunt lawfully.

[Buckmeister]

As to the original posters comments....I have noticed a drop in the available number of LEH cows in the EK over previous years, and I checked the online website for changes to the GOS, but nothing posted yet. Just have to wait and see.

[Husky7mm]

I'm not sure which is harder....finding a 'big whitey' in the East Kootenays or drawing that Island Elk tag, but I'd put money on the elk tag!!

A "big whitey" in the EK has 5 inch long spikes instead of 1-2 inches......

[Rackmastr]

A "big whitey" in the EK has 5 inch long spikes instead of 1-2 inches......

Hahaha yep.

There is the odd one that seems to get shot or seen, but sure not what I'd call 'big buck country'

[HarryToolips]

On our second to last cow elk hunt in the east koots, my pops saw one of his biggest white tails ever, but in typical white tail fashion it dissappeared pretty quick.




The law is the law. When it comes to the laws of the road, we are all responsible for knowing the laws. The last time I studied anything regarding driving and road laws was when I got my drivers license back in 1991, until, my daughter started studying for her drivers license over a year ago and I scanned through one of her books. I was surprised to find a few new laws and/or changes. I had never heard a news report or read a magazine regarding any changes or additions to these laws, and yet they exist. If I was caught contravening any of these laws, pleading ignorance wouldn't hold up cause it is MY responsibility to KNOW the laws. Driving is a privledge, not a right, so if I want to drive I had better be up to speed on the laws.

I believe the same goes for hunting laws. It is MY responsibility to be up to speed and fully aware of the current laws. As for the synopsis, there is little box on each of the regions main map page that says, "Check website www.env.gov.bc/fw/wildlife/hunting/news/ (http://www.env.gov.bc/fw/wildlife/hunting/news/) for in-season changes prior to your hunt."

And on page 2 of the current synopsis near the bottom of the page its says, "YOU and THE LAW: The British Columbia Hunting and Trapping Regulations Synopsis is intended for general information purposes only. Where there is a discrepancy between this Synopsis and the Regulations, the Regulations are the final authority. Regulations are subject to change from time to time, and it is the responsibility of an individual to be informed of the current Regulations."

That is fairly plain and clear. Plus, on page 2 on the bottom left corner, they explain a way of receiving instant web updates on the Regs via an RSS. Sure, not everyone has internet readily available to them, and not everyone has a phone either, but it is still every hunters responsibility to know the laws. The internet thing ticks me off though, banks and credit card companies and some other bills all want to send me e-bills, and if I want a paper statement I would be charged a fee. That made it really difficult when I lived way out of town with no internet or cell phone coverage, but when I went into town I used the internet at the library to receive my emails, and if I needed a paper copy for business reasons I downloaded the file to a gig stick and then printed it on my home printer.

Basically, if your mobile enough to hunt, your mobile enough to find the info needed to hunt lawfully.

Exactly!! As stated above, we still live in the best huntin province in the world

[Husky7mm]

Hahaha yep.

There is the odd one that seems to get shot or seen, but sure not what I'd call 'big buck country'

I find the odd big old chewed up shed, evidence from yesteryear.... a quick look at Trophy Deer of B.C by Rick Berreth confrims the genes are here too. Escapement seems to be the issue. Fill the woods up with hunters with a big boner for elk (which switch nocturnal very quickly) and anything legals gonna be hanging from the meat poll.....

[wccougar]

I wouldn't try the I didn't know they had changed the reg's. I ran into them out there one day and they told me its up to you to check to make sure of any changes and he said we will charge you. So be careful on that's one!

[Seeadler]

Don't forget the Brewster Buck.

[J_T]

I'm not sure which is harder....finding a 'big whitey' in the East Kootenays or drawing that Island Elk tag, but I'd put money on the elk tag!!
At least if you choose to hunt whitetail you can actually hunt. If you're waiting for a once in a lifetime elk draw LEH, you may be waiting a long time.

For my money and I'll say it again. If we have a season as GOS and it is deemed not sustainable, and the objective is lower harvests, we MUST look to a lower harvest 'open' opportunity. I don't just say move it to a bow season because I'm a bowhunter. Odds are I won't hunt that season, but why would we want to implement a lottery system and limit hunter opportunity, when we can lower harvests with a weapons restriction and continue to provide hunters an opportunity to get out.

[The Hermit]

At least if you choose to hunt whitetail you can actually hunt. If you're waiting for a once in a lifetime elk draw LEH, you may be waiting a long time.

For my money and I'll say it again. If we have a season as GOS and it is deemed not sustainable, and the objective is lower harvests, we MUST look to a lower harvest 'open' opportunity. I don't just say move it to a bow season because I'm a bowhunter. Odds are I won't hunt that season, but why would we want to implement a lottery system and limit hunter opportunity, when we can lower harvests with a weapons restriction and continue to provide hunters an opportunity to get out.

Oh you stole the words right from my song book!

[aggiehunter]

JT...well the answer almost seems easier than the actual reason this is not happening doesn't it.

[IslandmanDan]

I'm not sure which is harder....finding a 'big whitey' in the East Kootenays or drawing that Island Elk tag, but I'd put money on the elk tag!!

Yeah, I am just gonna hope they dont change the GOS on the anterless elk. And, I can also hope to get a Island Bull Elk draw. If nothing else, I can hope for a grass fed Whitetail...whatever size.
Hows the logic on this? We have a rancher with 800acres backing onto crown land, she has 50-150 elk on the property and say I dont get a Leh draw and the GOS is closed on anterless, then I would assume, with all the cows, that there would be some shooter 6ptbulls that are around these girls?
I know it may be less than the "for sure" anterless elk in the past, but theres a chance right?

[Husky7mm]

Yeah, I am just gonna hope they dont change the GOS on the anterless elk. And, I can also hope to get a Island Bull Elk draw. If nothing else, I can hope for a grass fed Whitetail...whatever size.
Hows the logic on this? We have a rancher with 800acres backing onto crown land, she has 50-150 elk on the property and say I dont get a Leh draw and the GOS is closed on anterless, then I would assume, with all the cows, that there would be some shooter 6ptbulls that are around these girls?
I know it may be less than the "for sure" anterless elk in the past, but theres a chance right?

Honestly I think you missed the hay day. Most of the ranchers I know don't see the elk in there fields any more, and if they do they are gone or nocturnal be at the first increase of hunter activity, sometimes even before the hunt starts. Anytime you allow the harvest of females its to decrease the population. It doesnt take long to see the effects cause every cow killed is also one less calf born in the spring too. Less cows and less bulls too. I am sure some will still get there elk, but the hayday is over for the time being.
Now if you want to see tonnes of elk they are concentated in the trench right now anywhere theres green grass popping up. A collection of elk from dozens of water sheds for hundreds of k's all the way up the trench. Pretty cool to see but most of them wont be there in the fall........

[Husky7mm]

There will be a antlerless elk GOS in the EK this year regardless of what the ministry does now. As long as you have a set of regs in your truck and deny knowing they have changed the season (which I highly doubt they will after we have had the mildest winter in 20+ years) you are good to go. Its the exact same for the three deer limit as long as you don't know they have changed it back to 2 deer you can shoot 3. This is the problem with doing regs for a 2 year period.
Oh there is no shortage of Elk in the Ek regardles of what the old men of Cranbrook, Kimberley and the Elk Valley will tell you.

The winter seemed very mild but gain just a bit of elevation and there is lots, and lots of snow. Still lots now.

[IslandmanDan]

Honestly I think you missed the hay day. Most of the ranchers I know don't see the elk in there fields any more, and if they do they are gone or nocturnal be at the first increase of hunter activity, sometimes even before the hunt starts. Anytime you allow the harvest of females its to decrease the population. It doesnt take long to see the effects cause every cow killed is also one less calf born in the spring too. Less cows and less bulls too. I am sure some will still get there elk, but the hayday is over for the time being.
Now if you want to see tonnes of elk they are concentated in the trench right now anywhere theres green grass popping up. A collection of elk from dozens of water sheds for hundreds of k's all the way up the trench. Pretty cool to see but most of them wont be there in the fall........

Ya I wondered if this would be the case. Too bad. Seemed like you guys really had it good there! Well its always fun to hunt a new spot! Thanks for all the input boys!IMD

[Ron.C]

I'd be quite the hypocrite if I said I didn't care if they closed it. The elk anterless GOS was a great hunt and not too hard to fill the freezer with a tastey cow elk which is what I did last year. But if the elk population is down, then I support closing the GOS Antlerless. You can still hunt 6pt bulls, WT bucks, MD Bucks in the higher elevations, black bears, turkeys. Hardly a waste of a trip.

[hunter1947]

Like I said before I heard from a good source that management might close the elk cow calf season down in zone X they have reached there quot in these low line regions ,,management can and will close down elk in zone X any time they want ,,will be on the news in the paper and on line to review it.

It's up to the hunter to look on line before they target any animal they hunt in a GOS changes can come into effect at any given time for any game animals during the GOS...

[HarryToolips]

I don't know anything about it firsthand but I talked to a couple credible hunters who were down there and one knows a butcher down there, according to the butcher and the two hunters it was a slaughter on the cows last year..so maybe closing it for a while might be a good thing..

[Onesock]

Because JT.............the opportunity is not with ANY weapon. It is for any hunter, which is what it should be, it is just not for any weapon. A lot of guys on here don't realize that ANYONE can buy a bow! They even let Hermit have one...or two.

[IslandmanDan]

Like I said before I heard from a good source that management might close the elk cow calf season down in zone X they have reached there quot in these low line regions ,,management can and will close down elk in zone X any time they want ,,will be on the news in the paper and on line to review it.

It's up to the hunter to look on line before they target any animal they hunt in a GOS changes can come into effect at any given time for any game animals during the GOS...


Oh ya for sure I will be complying with the current laws, no doubt. The LEH have this spot for anterless in the newest LEH synopsis.
Once, I seen that I thought ok its probably gonna be closed, but then I noticed they had the 2012 odds there. So does that mean, that people put in for anterless Elk last year, when there was a GOS???

[rocksteady]

In 2012 there was a gos and leh...

[bugler]

I'm not sure which is harder....finding a 'big whitey' in the East Kootenays or drawing that Island Elk tag, but I'd put money on the elk tag!!

"Big" is a relative term. If you have lived on the prairies, you won't find a "big" whitetail in the EK. For this province though, you just might, but the quality is way down from a few years ago.

[Rackmastr]

"Big" is a relative term. If you have lived on the prairies, you won't find a "big" whitetail in the EK. For this province though, you just might, but the quality is way down from a few years ago.

Right you are there. Coming from Alberta has spoiled me for "big" whitetail for sure. Still can chase deer in AB or SK in the future and love the rest of the opportunity that's here in BC!

[SWRO]

http://a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/hunting/closure-general-open-seasons-and-youthsenior-antlerless-elk-seasons-south-trench-kootenay--0

[hunter1947]

I new this was going to take place months ago ,,thanks for the update..

[J_T]

SWRO - we should work toward a lower harvest model and retain hunter opportunity and participation. Move to an archery season rather than an outright closure.

Thanks

[hunter1947]

It don't bother me one little bit elk or deer changes I will be targeting one big ass WT buck and one big ass RME LOL..