One Federation for all!!

[Apolonius]

Probably not the first one to think about this,Why dont we have a federation for all outdoorsman???We all have the same interests.And divided in all kind of associations we are not a force.We are easy targets for everyone.If we were all one we would be #1 a voting block with real power.#2 we would be more organized and supportive to each other.If they attack the fisherman we all respond.If they attack the trapper we all attack back.If we want to survive we do have to unite.With a central control of members of all groups and divisions of say "fly fisherman" , "sturgeon society"and so on.And by supporting each others issues with tens of thousands of voices the politicians WILL listen.They love to have us fragmented.Every hunter ,every fisherman/woman should belong to that.Every hunting club,association,black,white,indian,chinese.We in this together like it or not.Because if they don't attack you today they will after they get me.United we stand...we stand a chance ,a very good chance.

[trapperdan2061]

Fully agree I have rented on this before

[xfactor]

Agreed!! Strength in numbers.

[wildcatter]

Good for you bringing up this idea, I am willing to stick up for trappers, fishermen, hunters and all.
Are you thinking of BC only?

[Mr. Dean]

Isn't that club called the BCWF?

[pnbrock]

what mrDean said!!!

[Apolonius]

I do know of bcwf and i am a member.What i am trying to say is that every club association is seen as a separate entity and treated as that.Every one in the government and environmentalists like it this way.By supporting and including even some environmental groups we will gain.There are groups in the enviro/movement that dont support the radicals but we still include them all.By Separating them and convincing to support our side we all win.Not all of them are in bed with Peta,or Suzuki.Back to the Federation,yes only in BC.As our problems are unique as are local problems.But if some one has another federation in another province we show support.If a politician in Alberta gets a few negative emails from our federation too,you see how quick he changes his mind.And if the provincial minister of forests got a few thousand emails from Alberta ,Bill 8???would be never tabled.And that ass will never get elected again.And also the ones behind him too.Everything affects us!!!And if it get done on the Island it will hit the Mainland too.This politicians are screwing up all they can.And they are all the same.Proof?????Take a look at all the comities or government appointees.EX POLITICOS from ALL SIDES.Look at Mike Harcourt at his history after he "was" gone.He gets paid to solve our " Indian Treaty" problem.And he never did a thing when he was in government.BCWF should look for creating an umbrella of groups without making any one thinking it is a takeover,only an equal union that will help everyone.One Federation with "sub federations".All communicating and helping each other.Under on roof,one common strategy.Every member in an email list that gets notified and gets in to action. Lets take back our province.Not for us ,for our kids.Or ALL will be gone.

[One Shot]

Great Idea..........Having all the provincial associations represented on a national level would benifit each province and the nation as a whole. It would give us the sportsmen and women a louder voice, in a sense the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

[6616]

Great Idea..........Having all the provincial associations represented on a national level would benifit each province and the nation as a whole. It would give us the sportsmen and women a louder voice, in a sense the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

See Canadian Wildlife Federation:
http://www.cwf-fcf.org/en/about-cwf/staff/board/

Just because you guys are unaware of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[J_T]

Is this the thread on trolls?

[325]

Great Idea..........Having all the provincial associations represented on a national level would benifit each province and the nation as a whole. It would give us the sportsmen and women a louder voice, in a sense the squeeky wheel gets the grease.


As regulations regarding hunting are largely provincial (with the exception of Federally protected species), the provincial voice is by far the most important.

[fowl language]

apolonius, the bcwf ia 40 plus thousand members and we work with about all the different organization.we just partnered with the sports fishing instute to fight the malcolm case on halibut. there are many others that we work with. i see your in langley, i would like to personally invite you to attend a bcwf region 2 board meeting the third wednesday of each month at the semiahmoo gun club to see what it,s all about. hope to see you there....dale

[Apolonius]

I am aware of this federations and a member of BCWF for a number of years.I don't have anything against any one.They all do a great job ,but individually.When is the last time you were asked to support this or that group,that we have common grounds?Even by a letter campaign we can all make a difference.We can all be on a mailing list that would be able with a button bring lots of support.How do you think the enviroloonies do it?They call ten thousand and if they get ten percent ...hmmm!If we were under an umbrella we can do that.And no one has to loose their identity.You are still a guide outfitter,a flyfisherman,a trapper.Your fundraising helps you and your club.But a coordination by say BCWF that in my opinion has the ability and the numbers to do it will take us to another level.A call to arms will bring more response and results.Because many times we dont hear things until it is too late.I believe the are some young wizards that could set up an email list and inform ALL of us for EVERYONES issues.If we dont organize like our enemy we will loose this war.We already lost enough.

[Surrey Boy]

Isn't that club called the BCWF?

That's what I thought.

[jetboat jim]

too many lines in the sand for all to come together , tried for many years in the angling community too many differences.

[Apolonius]

I tried for years Jetboat jim in my line of work to create some kind of association ,to protect us.Now years later many guys are out of work and blame others.The worst enemy is the letter "I".The moment it comes in to play all hell brakes loose.I dont try to put down the BCWF or any club/association.We dont have to loose identity to unite and support each other.At least all i can hope people here in this site to post their clubs problems and ask for our help.This way we can add our voice to their causes,and hope they add theirs to ours.

[bridger]

It would be great if we could organize a one size fits all organization, but there is so many diverse issues and agenda's across the province that i wonder about the practicality of attempting such an undertaking. The reality is that if everyone licensed hunter and fisherman in the province joined the Bcwf and donated $100 over and above the annual dues we would have a tremendously powerful lobby.

[EvanG]

Money is the key to getting things done, luckily at work I can choose to have charitable donations taken off our checks each month.. I give the bcwf 10$ a check, at the end of the year it works out to 260, and never even notice it.

[bridger]

Money is the key to getting things done, luckily at work I can choose to have charitable donations taken off our checks each month.. I give the bcwf 10$ a check, at the end of the year it works out to 260, and never even notice it.


Very nice!!

[Mr. Dean]

The reality is that if everyone licensed hunter and fisherman in the province joined the Bcwf and donated $100 over and above the annual dues we would have a tremendously powerful lobby.

That's right...... The vehicle is already built and established, all it needs is more people to ride it.

[J_T]

The environmental movement developed the most successful model for lobbying years ago. And that's what you are looking for. Power in your attempts to lobby and preserve. These enviro groups found it much more successful to have 10 groups all with a vote, instead of 1 large group with 1 vote.

While I'm all for group hugs, I think at the end of the day the issues are unique and do require focus and specific attention. Often the larger the organization, the more they become mired in bureaucracy.

It's much easier to drive a small car than a bus. There's nothing stops us from being members in more than one organization and that is where the power of numbers multiplies.

[Apolonius]

Never said we have to dismantle all different associations and create one.One that coordinate all ,without loosing independence of the local authority.And if we deal as one our numbers will be far greater.Look at the Teachers.The government wants to deal with every association individually not the bctf as a whole.I wonder why.You can through little bullets against a rock wall ...yes you will be chipping away.But a cannon ball can do the real thing.I see the sport fishing institute ask the BCWF for help with halibut allocation.Very good.But they shouldn't have to ask.And i should know the moment it happened not by reading Outdoor Edge which i get with my membership to bcwf.There are issues we dont hear about until it is too late and they affect us one way or the other.We also have some associations that left Bcwf.All i can say to them is you can bring change from within faster and better.If they had a problem they should try and see if it is a way to fix by discussions and dialogue.I dont mean to say that i know what happened there but we lost members and they lost the support or backing of the association.And our enemies love it.Anyway i think we all want the best for all of us.We should stay together.Dissagreeing does not make us enemies and straight to the divorce lawyers .Dialogue between all associations i believe will bring all of us together.

[Mr. Dean]

I'd like to think if there were issues that needed the backing of several conservation groups, they would lobby together.


Look at the wolf problem;
We have the BCWF, GOABC and the Trappers Association all working to get to a common goal.

So WTS, if we were to have significant increase of membership within these organizations, that very BIG concern would have already been dealt with...

[Singleshotneeded]

Totally agree, there are a FEW fishermen that don't like hunting but maybe they can pull together with us
for the greater good...

[Telkwa Hunter]

Great idea......It will never work

My line in the sand:

PISS on the BCWF mouth breathing knuckle draggers and their relentless push to open a wild steelhead kill fishery on the Skeena.

[TPK]

...PISS on the BCWF mouth breathing knuckle draggers

Nice ... 40,000 + members and you're sure they all fit into that description? Not that you care, but I take great offense to this and I would guess a great many of those 40,000 + members do as well.

[Apolonius]

I hope this is not going to turn in them and us.I never fished the Skeena or even plan too.I dont know about what BCWF is trying to do.All i know when the time comes to fight for something that gets lost....like say the Skeena becomes "native only fishery",you want to stand there by your self and maybe 50 people????...or fourty thousand members of the BCWF????.Is BCWF perfect no.The whole point i was trying to make with this thread, is IF we ALL connected our numbers would GET all the attention we need to get things done.Dont look at our differences ,rather look at our similarities.Thats how you make friends.

[Gateholio]

Great idea......It will never work

My line in the sand:

PISS on the BCWF mouth breathing knuckle draggers and their relentless push to open a wild steelhead kill fishery on the Skeena.

Right here is why an "umbrella" organization won't work. Too many people have different opinions on how things should be run. The only way to make all the members happy is to have it so watered down and diluted, it can't really take a true stance on anything.

[fowl language]

a truer word has not been spoken, there,s your sign. well spoken ,gate.....d

[Telkwa Hunter]

Nice ... 40,000 + members and you're sure they all fit into that description? Not that you care, but I take great offense to this and I would guess a great many of those 40,000 + members do as well.

If they support the kill fishery then they fit the description.

[Telkwa Hunter]

I hope this is not going to turn in them and us.I never fished the Skeena or even plan too.I dont know about what BCWF is trying to do.All i know when the time comes to fight for something that gets lost....like say the Skeena becomes "native only fishery",you want to stand there by your self and maybe 50 people????...or fourty thousand members of the BCWF????.Is BCWF perfect no.The whole point i was trying to make with this thread, is IF we ALL connected our numbers would GET all the attention we need to get things done.Dont look at our differences ,rather look at our similarities.Thats how you make friends.

Native only ? 50 people ? ....... You really have no idea on this one

[Telkwa Hunter]

Right here is why an "umbrella" organization won't work. Too many people have different opinions on how things should be run. The only way to make all the members happy is to have it so watered down and diluted, it can't really take a true stance on anything.

This is where I was headed......It will never work.

[TPK]

I hope this is not going to turn in them and us.I never fished the Skeena or even plan too.I dont know about what BCWF is trying to do.All i know when the time comes to fight for something that gets lost....like say the Skeena becomes "native only fishery",you want to stand there by your self and maybe 50 people????...or fourty thousand members of the BCWF????.Is BCWF perfect no.The whole point i was trying to make with this thread, is IF we ALL connected our numbers would GET all the attention we need to get things done.Dont look at our differences ,rather look at our similarities.Thats how you make friends.

I agree 100%. The problem is too many people are not willing to look at the "big picture" and work together, they would rather fight than compromise. While fighting for something and not compromising isn't always bad thing ... it just shouldn't be like that all the time. If we could work together once in a while it sure would be nice. A little give and take you know?

It would be nice to be able to say, "Hey, even though I\we was\were against it, I\we supported you guys with your issue as that's what the majority wanted, now I\we need help with an issue you may not 100% agree with but the majority are in favour of, will you do the same for me\us now? and have the answer to be YES.

Would be nice but not likely to happen, too many selfish people out there. I have only to look at my own Region to see this and the effects it has. We can get 4 out 5 clubs in favour of something and we will always have that one club that refuses to get on board. Unfortunately, no one but "the other guy" wins in this case. Often "the other guy" is the Ministry and all they have to do in order to not do anything is point to that one club and say "See, you don't even have consensus in your own group so we're not listening to you". Happens all the time and is VERY frusterating.

[bridger]

Great idea......It will never work

My line in the sand:

PISS on the BCWF mouth breathing knuckle draggers and their relentless push to open a wild steelhead kill fishery on the Skeena.


When the weather began to change the dinasours were the last too notice. Just sayin'

[Apolonius]

Sadly it will never work.I only can say the Indians that used to kill each other got together.The "white" guys, still them and us.And the government likes it .Divide and conquer.And the Telkwa Hunter worries about his catch and release steelhead?.Not that i have anything against it.You can catch and release them till they got no teeth to bite.I just see a bigger picture.By the time you try to see the big picture it will be little "homelands".Good luck to all of us....and them too!!!! he he he he .Time for a drink.Viva los Caballeros.

[Telkwa Hunter]

Sadly it will never work.I only can say the Indians that used to kill each other got together.The "white" guys, still them and us.And the government likes it .Divide and conquer.And the Telkwa Hunter worries about his catch and release steelhead?.Not that i have anything against it.You can catch and release them till they got no teeth to bite.I just see a bigger picture.By the time you try to see the big picture it will be little "homelands".Good luck to all of us....and them too!!!! he he he he .Time for a drink.Viva los Caballeros.

It's about more than steelhead.

It's the archaic logic/thinking behind the BCWF that is mind blowing !

[Stone Sheep Steve]

It's the archaic logic/thinking behind the BCWF that is mind blowing !


There's no room for science based decisions.....I agree:roll:

[Telkwa Hunter]

There's no room for science based decisions.....I agree:roll:

Agreed 100%..........The only problem with "science" is that it can be manipulated. Just have a gander at Morton's latest.....

[40incher]

All the BCWF has to do is make a stand on steelhead. Of course they will never do that.

It's much easier to placate the multititute atnd keep the already-commited on the hook.

To the BCWF. Know your membership!

[40incher]

When the weather began to change the dinasours were the last too notice. Just sayin'

Just Sayin'

You callin' all us Skeena peolpe "dinasours" ??? That would not be a positive move for an "inclusive BCWF". Good to see nothing has changed!

Too bad you don't know the real problem bud!

Why don't you hire a couple of new bureaucrats. Surely there must be one or two not on the BCWF payroll!!!

Just Sayin!!

[bridger]

My commment wasnt directed at the people of the skeena at all. It was directed at the context of your comments concerning the Bcwf. The op asked why we couldn't have one federation for all. Your attitude pretty well answers the question.

[Apolonius]

I dont personally agree with all BCWF does.But what are my other options?Do they hire bureaucrats yes ,if you deal with them you better have one on your side.Do they hire lawyers yes ,if you want to deal as equal with the multitude of government lawyers.Unfortunatelly we pay for both,one to defend us and the others to screw us.Aint life wonderful?And the bottom line is a fair excamble,why do developers hire ex bureaucrats???Because they get things done.Fair or not thats the way things work.And dont worry here everyone respects your fight for the Skeena.Or everyones fight for fishing/hunting/trapping.Like i said before lots of people are "my fish" My deer" "my area".If we think like that sooner than latter it will be "their" area.

[40incher]

My commment wasnt directed at the people of the skeena at all. It was directed at the context of your comments concerning the Bcwf. The op asked why we couldn't have one federation for all. Your attitude pretty well answers the question.


Well that clears it all up then, just like a Monty Python skit.

Seems somewhat ironic that a long-in-the toother would be calling anyone a dinosaur though.

Being on the same page,when we are reading different books, means little ....

The people of the Skeena will be fine, with or without ya' ..... Havin' some smoked steelie tonight.

[GoatGuy]

Big picture is all about conservation. Everybody has their 'issue'. The big picture is about habitat, fish and wildlife conservation. The greater good is the big picture, all it takes is some personal sacrifice. Don't think anot 'me' think about the future.

The BCWF has come miles in the last two years and is at the front of the pack when it comes to conservation.

Think ahead and think about the big picture.

[40incher]

That must be good shit your smokin'.

Are the miles you are talking about in retreat!?

Hunters and anglers are the original conservationists .... perhaps that should be reiterated.

The "big picture" for BC resident hunters and anglers looks grim at this point.

[Telkwa Hunter]

Big picture is all about conservation. Everybody has their 'issue'. The big picture is about habitat, fish and wildlife conservation. The greater good is the big picture, all it takes is some personal sacrifice. Don't think anot 'me' think about the future.

The BCWF has come miles in the last two years and is at the front of the pack when it comes to conservation.

Think ahead and think about the big picture.

Leading the pack when it comes to conservation and thinking about the big picture.......seriously ?

More like as soon as we have enough to sustain a popluation let's start killing them.......thinking ahead and about the big picture is obviously what the BCWF is not doing in this case.....this is not for the greater good of the resource.

http://www.bcwf.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=153&Itemid=405

[GoatGuy]

It's all not sacrifice folks - as son as you're in it for yourself you will lose out for your kids and their kids.

[GoatGuy]

You guys may not get it, that's ok. It's funny that both are on either side of the steelhead debate. The bcwf has supported retention in sustainable populations. If you can't agree with that it's hard to understand your perspective. Fish and wildlife first, us' after that.

from a guy who's fished it from one end to the other:

[40incher]

Ummm ... smoked steelie for an appetizer and elk tenderloin with abalone seared in dolly varden sauce ...

Endangered vittles are the best. But then again, what isn't 'endangered" nowadays.

Lived in Telkwa all my life, but .......

[Telkwa Hunter]

I agree and understand what a sustainable population is. But just because population numbers seem to be on an upward swing at the moment doesn't mean that we should open a kill fishery. Just like our local elk herd seems to be sustaining itself doesn't mean that the population is strong enough to support a hunt. It's very frustrating watching a self proclaimed conservaton organization lobby to bring back a kill fishery on the last population of it's kind left on earth.

The conservation movement, also known as nature conservation, is a political, environmental and a social movement that seeks to protect natural resources (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Natural_resource) including animal, fungus and plant species as well as their habitat for the future.
The early conservation movement included fisheries (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Fisheries) and wildlife management (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Wildlife_management), water, soil (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Soil) conservation and sustainable forestry (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Sustainable_forestry). The contemporary conservation movement has broadened from the early movement's emphasis on use of sustainable yield of natural resources and preservation of wilderness (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Wilderness) areas to include preservation of biodiversity (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Biodiversity). Some say the conservation movement is part of the broader and more far-reaching environmental movement (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Environmental_movement), while others argue that they differ both in ideology and practice. Chiefly in the United States, conservation is seen as differing from environmentalism (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Environmentalism) in that it aims to preserve natural resources expressly for their continued sustainable (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Sustainable) use by humans.[1] (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/#cite_note-1) In other parts of the world conservation is used more broadly to include the setting aside of natural areas and the active protection of wildlife for their inherent value, as much as for any value they may have for humans.


Sustainability is the capacity to endure. In ecology (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Ecology) the word describes how biological systems remain diverse (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Biodiversity) and productive over time. Long-lived and healthy wetlands (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Wetlands) and forests (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Forests) are examples of sustainable biological systems. For humans, sustainability is the potential for long-term maintenance of well being, which has environmental, economic, and social dimensions.
Healthy ecosystems and environments provide vital goods and services to humans and other organisms. There are two major ways of reducing negative human impact and enhancing ecosystem services (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Ecosystem_services) and the first of these is environmental management (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Environmental_management). This approach is based largely on information gained from earth science (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Earth_science), environmental science (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Environmental_science) and conservation biology (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Conservation_biology). The second approach is management of human consumption (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Consumption_(economics)) of resources, which is based largely on information gained from economics (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Economics).
Sustainability interfaces with economics through the social and ecological consequences of economic activity. Sustainability economics involves ecological economics (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Ecological_economics) where social, cultural, health-related and monetary/financial aspects are integrated. Moving towards sustainability is also a social challenge that entails international (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/International_law) and national law (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Law), urban planning (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Urban_planning) and transport (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Transport), local and individual lifestyles (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Lifestyle_(sociology)) and ethical consumerism (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Ethical_consumerism). Ways of living more sustainably can take many forms from reorganising living conditions (e.g., ecovillages (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Ecovillages), eco-municipalities (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Eco-municipalities) and sustainable cities (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Sustainable_cities)), reappraising economic sectors (permaculture (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Permaculture), green building (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Green_building), sustainable agriculture (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Sustainable_agriculture)), or work practices (sustainable architecture (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Sustainable_architecture)), using science to develop new technologies (green technologies (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Green_technologies), renewable energy (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Renewable_energy) and sustainable Fission (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor) and Fusion power (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Fusion_power)), to adjustments in individual lifestyles (http://www.huntingbc.ca/wiki/Lifestyle_(sociology)) that conserve natural resources.

[GoatGuy]

Deal with sustainability; not Wikipedia. Too many self-interested folks out there. Worry about wildlife, not yourself. It's pretty easy if you have the best interests of fish and wildlife at heart.


Elk are a non-native in region 6 and really don't belong there. Moose, sheep, goats, grizz, black bear are species you should worry about. Same with steelhead - if you can harvest a few sustainably don't worry about it. If you have populations which are struggling deal with it. Conservation right?


forest or trees???

The focus on increasing elk in region 6 is very poor form in terms of the big picture. Do you want steelhead or goldfish?

[TPK]

Why don't you hire a couple of new bureaucrats. Surely there must be one or two not on the BCWF payroll!!!

Just Sayin!!

We get you're not a BCWF fan but seriously, consider a little more fact and a little less BS when talking about the Federation.

[horshur]

"There are two moral questions which altruism lumps together into one “package-deal”: (1) What are values? (2) Who should be the beneficiary of values? Altruism substitutes the second for the first; it evades the task of defining a code of moral values, thus leaving man, in fact, without moral guidance.
Altruism declares that any action taken for the benefit of others is good, and any action taken for one’s own benefit is evil. Thus the beneficiary of an action is the only criterion of moral value—and so long as that beneficiary is anybody other than oneself, anything goes."

Ayn Rand. Philosophy: Who needs it.

[Surrey Boy]

So how do we define "benefit"?

[schilly101]

Reading this all has reminded me why i wont belong to any organisation...too many pissing matches..nothing ever gets accomplished because everyone is too busy fighting amongst themselves

[Surrey Boy]

Reading this all has reminded me why i wont belong to any organisation...too many pissing matches..nothing ever gets accomplished because everyone is too busy fighting amongst themselves

Mother Teresa style for you? It's a good way to go.

[40incher]

We get you're not a BCWF fan but seriously, consider a little more fact and a little less BS when talking about the Federation.


What more fact would you like?

How many retired bureaucrats can a "supposed" NGO allow to cling on to and drag down?

Let me know?

[fowl language]

40 incher, perhaps you,ve been sniffing a bit to much glue.. the retired bureaucrat you refer to has just recently got the harvest allocation policy reinstated. he also has just landed what i would guess at one of the largest contributions to conservation in bc if not the biggest. ....ya just another wasre of time. nay sayer certainly are good arm chair quarter backs...fowl

[Weatherby Fan]

And I suppose all you retired bureaucrats over at BCWF just sit around never donating a minute of your time to conservation,education or anything constructive for the betterment of BCs environment..........some people just don't get it !

Fowl language thanks for all you do for BCWF and the sportsmen of BC
WF

[thecoyote]

Telkwa Hunter: seems a bit ironic that you are so dead set against any steelhead being "killed" but from your photo you don't seem to mind "harvesting" bears. How do you know there is enough bears to take one?

[HIGHRPM]

Totally agree. But, how do we start ?

[fowl language]

high rpm. you can get involved at your local club level,this is who the bcwf takes their instruction from.it not a perfect world but like goat guy said it is pretty easy when you think about conservation not self serving interested.....fowl