BC Hunting Phone Survey

[blackbart]

Earlier this evening a tele-survey company contracted by the Ministry of Forests Lands and Natural Resource Operations (the provincial agency that regulates hunting) called me to talk about my hunting activities in BC.

They had numerous questions about hunting activites, species, regions and expenditures.

My strong hunch is that the government is trying to gather information around the economic benefits that come from resident hunters. This may be to help formulate future wildlife related budgets, or to test the waters for political reasons??? Either way I was keen to answer all of the questions and show just how much my hunting activities contribute to the economy of BC. It seems to me that the more $$ we can show that are put into the economy from our activities the larger our voice will be with Victoria.

I would strongly encourage others that are phoned to participate and show just how much resident hunters contribute and how valuable our wildlife resource is.

BB

[sarnold]

I've always thought that your odds of an leh are better the further you travel to hunt:)!! I agree 100% if we can show hunting is helping to move the economic growth forward the better chance we have of more hunting opportunities......say what you will but that's the truth, it kills me to say but money (I believe) trumps conservation....
just my 2 cents

[The Silent Stalker]

Hope that's what they want, I hope I get the call.

[bugler]

Just curious, did they ask if you hunted with a bow at all?

[REMINGTON JIM]

Just Finished my Survey call and they asked if i purchased a bow or arrows but did not ask if i hunted with one ! :) RJ

[The Hermit]

Just curious, did they ask if you hunted with a bow at all?

Laugh right out loud!! Hahahaha If they call me I'll be sure to tell them I bowhunt and have fifty bows! snarf

[Hunt-4-Life]

Testing thd waters, is it more profitable to continue to allow resident hunting, or would government be better served by selling the forest to private companies (as per Bill 8 sec 24). Include every cent spent.

[GoatGuy]

Please keep the responses factual folks

[40incher]

Earlier this evening a tele-survey company contracted by the Ministry of Forests Lands and Natural Resource Operations (the provincial agency that regulates hunting) called me to talk about my hunting activities in BC.

They had numerous questions about hunting activites, species, regions and expenditures.

My strong hunch is that the government is trying to gather information around the economic benefits that come from resident hunters. This may be to help formulate future wildlife related budgets, or to test the waters for political reasons??? Either way I was keen to answer all of the questions and show just how much my hunting activities contribute to the economy of BC. It seems to me that the more $$ we can show that are put into the economy from our activities the larger our voice will be with Victoria.

I would strongly encourage others that are phoned to participate and show just how much resident hunters contribute and how valuable our wildlife resource is.

BB[/QUOTE]


Give your head a shake. All they care about is how much they can raise fees for hunting licences and tags for BC residents.

We already pay more than our share for wildlife access. Tell them to go after the leaf-lickers who pay nothing but constantly seek to keep us hunters off the land so that they can view animals.

Trust me, we have seen this before. Especially from any gov't desperate for a balanced budget on the backs of its overtaxed citizens.

[Mr. Dean]

Trust me, they have NO CLUE what our impact on the economy is.... I know, I tried to educate them on it a couple years or so ago.
Eyebrows were raised and eyeballs bugged.

[GoatGuy]

The survey is part of an update on the economics of resident hunting. The last survey was done in 1995 IIRC.

It helps resident hunters and organizations which promote/support resident hunting in a couple dozen ways most importantly showing how much resident hunters contribute through expenditures. These things help decision makers inform themselves for job creation through hunting opportunity and wildlife abundance. It also helps demonstrate the value of hunting to non-hunting British Columbians.

It's important that the surveys are answered factually.

40incher, this is not a contingent valuation study and this survey does not ask about the perceived value of license and tags. It is a commitment government made quite some time ago.

[Confused]

Can someone explain to me why anyone thinks that hunting is some huge economic driver, including politicians, and why they would care about it from that standpoint? I guess i ask the question because if they banned hunting tommorrow, our money would still be spent. It might be on fishing, or other activities, but i would still spend the money that I do hunting on something else if there was no hunting.

Just asking?:-D

[GoatGuy]

You can spend your money outside of BC.

Hunting is 'taxed' so government has a revenue source.

redistribution of wealth, where money is spread out through the province particularly in areas where job creation is generally difficult and unemployment can be higher.

The role of wildlife management - the alternative is for the government to pay to manage wildlife.

there are other issues but that should give you something to chew on.

[blackbart]

My orig post was about making sure that those surveyed understood the importance of their responses. Please keep your posts focused on this. This is the opportunity for hunters that are surveyed to have a real voice. I am not that pleased that some want to take the thread in other directions.

The Bill 8 comments would be better served elsewhere, and by those actually informed as to what the differences are between area based versus volume based forest tenure.

Thanks for your consideration.

BB

[Mr. Dean]

My orig post was about making sure that those surveyed understood the importance of their responses. Please keep your posts focused on this. This is the opportunity for hunters that are surveyed to have a real voice. I am not that pleased that some want to take the thread in other directions.

The Bill 8 comments would be better served elsewhere, and by those actually informed as to what the differences are between area based versus volume based forest tenure.

Thanks for your consideration.

BB

I cleaned up your thread.
You're right, it was running WAY off topic.

[aggiehunter]

Confused...I guess the definition of huge is up to everyone to decide...but that little Mom and Pop store in timbuck three sure is happy to see us every year in the late bow season....before that rifle hunters also spend tons...so we all help the economy go 'round..

[Mr. Dean]

Confused...I guess the definition of huge is up to everyone to decide...


Put some thought to it.


We got guns, we got bows.
We got optics, we got electronics.
We buy ammo, we make ammo.
We need specialized clothing for various seasons...

Just look around inside your home and try to value the replacement of what's all inside them totes and storage cabinets.
And if that doesn't cause a stroke, start looking inside the garage and what's parked in the driveway.


There you'll likely find;

Boat(s).
Quad(s).
Snowmobile(s).
Camper/Trailer (RV).
Hunting Buggies (Jeep, Tracker, lifted P/U...)
Utility/toy trailer.
And probably more if you look around....


And lets not forget;

The bird decoys
Layout blinds.
Game calls.
Back packs.
Knives.
Safety/survival gear.

And all them DVD's that are in the bookcase to ensure us that others DO get something! :lol:


Everything about hunting is consumable. It all requires maintenance and/or replacements which ='s more spending.
It is also very specific - Much of what we own we would have little/no use for if we didn't hunt, including the vehicles we daily drive.

And we haven't yet scratched the co$t of getting away yet or bringing game out of the forests.....


Now I wanna rope to go hang myself....

[1899]

I was called last night. Questions included: how many days hunting; what region; same as home region or not; what species; how many days per species; how many days hunting small game; how many days hunting waterfowl; how much spent on fuel; how much spent on firearms, optics, ammunition and licenses; how much spent on camping gear; how much spent on taxidermy; how much spent on hotels/motels/lodges; how much spent on guides/outfitters...and the last two questions became...."interesting".

I had told him (a nice fellow from Virginia who couldn't explain to me what the Ministry wanted to do with the information) that i had hunted Moose, Whitetail, Mule deer,Black Bears etc. The second to last question was, "How much money did you spend per day when you hunted Black Bears?" The last question was, "How much more would it have to cost to hunt Black Bear for you to no longer hunt them?" (not an exact quote). I told him I wasn't going to answer that question.

It seems like an odd question, no?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Odd? Seems very onimous........:-?

SSS

[Mr. Dean]

Odd? Seems very onimous........:-?

SSS

Thank God! for Webster:

Synonymsbaleful (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/baleful), dire (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/dire), direful (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/direful), doomy (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/doomy), foreboding (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/foreboding), ill (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/ill), ill-boding (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/ill-boding), inauspicious (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/inauspicious), menacing (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/menacing), minatory (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/minatory), portentous (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/portentous), sinister (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/sinister), threatening (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/threatening)


Related Wordsblack (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/black), bleak (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/bleak), cheerless (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/cheerless), chill (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/chill), Cimmerian (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/cimmerian), cloudy (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/cloudy), cold (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/cold), comfortless (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/comfortless), dark (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/dark), darkening (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/darkening), depressing (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/depressing), depressive (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/depressive), desolate (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/desolate), dim (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/dim), disconsolate (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/disconsolate), dismal (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/dismal), drear (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/drear), dreary (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/dreary), dreich (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/dreich) [chiefly Scottish], elegiac (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/elegiac) (also elegiacal (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/elegiacal)), forlorn (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/forlorn), funereal (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/funereal), gloomy (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/gloomy), glum (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/glum), godforsaken (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/godforsaken), gray (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/gray) (also grey (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/grey)), lonely (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/lonely), lonesome (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/lonesome), lugubrious (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/lugubrious), miserable (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/miserable), morbid (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/morbid), morose (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/morose), murky (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/murky), plutonian (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/plutonian), saturnine (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/saturnine), sepulchral (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/sepulchral), somber (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/somber) (or sombre (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/sombre)), sullen (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/sullen), sunless (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/sunless), tenebrific (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/tenebrific), tenebrous (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/tenebrous), wretched (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/wretched); discouraging (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/discouraging), disheartening (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/disheartening), hopeless (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/hopeless), unfavorable (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/unfavorable), unpromising (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/unpromising), unpropitious (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/unpropitious); ill-fated (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/ill-fated), ill-starred (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/ill-starred), star-crossed (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/star-crossed), troubled (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/troubled), unfortunate (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/unfortunate), unlucky (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/unlucky); evil (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/evil), malign (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/malign), malignant (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/malignant)

[Sideofabarn]

Just got the call myself. I would have thought this sort of information would be more relevant to the MoE, than the MoFLRO. I sent an email to the ministry to find out if this is a legit survey, especially considering the number comes up as unknown. I do realise this sort of stuff gets outsourced all the time however. Something smells like fish, and not the "Female Appreciation Thread" kind...

[drakfero]

I was called last night. Questions included: how many days hunting; what region; same as home region or not; what species; how many days per species; how many days hunting small game; how many days hunting waterfowl; how much spent on fuel; how much spent on firearms, optics, ammunition and licenses; how much spent on camping gear; how much spent on taxidermy; how much spent on hotels/motels/lodges; how much spent on guides/outfitters...and the last two questions became...."interesting".

I had told him (a nice fellow from Virginia who couldn't explain to me what the Ministry wanted to do with the information) that i had hunted Moose, Whitetail, Mule deer,Black Bears etc. The second to last question was, "How much money did you spend per day when you hunted Black Bears?" The last question was, "How much more would it have to cost to hunt Black Bear for you to no longer hunt them?" (not an exact quote). I told him I wasn't going to answer that question.

It seems like an odd question, no?



You should have told them , if I would not hunt , I would spend all those money on vacation in Mexico.. So if I am not allowed to hunt , no money for BC/Canada ;) Thats what I am gonna say when they call me..

[GoatGuy]

Just got the call myself. I would have thought this sort of information would be more relevant to the MoE, than the MoFLRO. I sent an email to the ministry to find out if this is a legit survey, especially considering the number comes up as unknown. I do realise this sort of stuff gets outsourced all the time however. Something smells like fish, and not the "Female Appreciation Thread" kind...

It is a legit survey.

Fish and wildlife branch has been in NRO for the past couple of years, since the be re-org.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Thank God! for Webster:

Synonymsbaleful (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/baleful), dire (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/dire), direful (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/direful), doomy (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/doomy), foreboding (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/foreboding), ill (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/ill), ill-boding (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/ill-boding), inauspicious (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/inauspicious), menacing (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/menacing), minatory (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/minatory), portentous (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/portentous), sinister (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/sinister), threatening (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/threatening)


Related Wordsblack (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/black), bleak (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/bleak), cheerless (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/cheerless), chill (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/chill), Cimmerian (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/cimmerian), cloudy (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/cloudy), cold (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/cold), comfortless (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/comfortless), dark (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/dark), darkening (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/darkening), depressing (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/depressing), depressive (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/depressive), desolate (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/desolate), dim (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/dim), disconsolate (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/disconsolate), dismal (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/dismal), drear (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/drear), dreary (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/dreary), dreich (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/dreich) [chiefly Scottish], elegiac (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/elegiac) (also elegiacal (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/elegiacal)), forlorn (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/forlorn), funereal (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/funereal), gloomy (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/gloomy), glum (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/glum), godforsaken (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/godforsaken), gray (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/gray) (also grey (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/grey)), lonely (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/lonely), lonesome (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/lonesome), lugubrious (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/lugubrious), miserable (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/miserable), morbid (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/morbid), morose (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/morose), murky (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/murky), plutonian (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/plutonian), saturnine (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/saturnine), sepulchral (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/sepulchral), somber (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/somber) (or sombre (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/sombre)), sullen (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/sullen), sunless (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/sunless), tenebrific (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/tenebrific), tenebrous (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/tenebrous), wretched (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/wretched); discouraging (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/discouraging), disheartening (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/disheartening), hopeless (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/hopeless), unfavorable (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/unfavorable), unpromising (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/unpromising), unpropitious (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/unpropitious); ill-fated (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/ill-fated), ill-starred (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/ill-starred), star-crossed (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/star-crossed), troubled (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/troubled), unfortunate (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/unfortunate), unlucky (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/unlucky); evil (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/evil), malign (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/malign), malignant (http://www.huntingbc.ca/dictionary/malignant)

Hey, I'm surprized I remembered anything from Grade 8 vocabulary class. Guess I had a good teacher. Good ole Mr Smith!

SSS

[Mr. Dean]

Hey, I'm surprized remembered anything from Grade 8 vocabulary class. Guess I had a good teacher. Good ole Mr Smith!

SSS

All I got for memories from grade 8 is Inga, Carrie, Stephanie, Lisa and Rhonda (in no order of preference).
Good Times!

[musket]

I was happy to do the survey, just really miffed that the survey company is from Virginia rather then B.C. our goverment stinks.

[GoatGuy]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/bc_hunt_value.html

[GoatGuy]

I was happy to do the survey, just really miffed that the survey company is from Virginia rather then B.C. our goverment stinks.
We don't have the expertise in house.

[Sideofabarn]

We don't have the expertise in house.

Maybe, but it doesn't take an Astrophysicist to read a survey from a script (straying from the script can give unreliable results as I understand it) and record the answers. If they're taped, all you need is someone to transcribe the results. Any university kid wanting to work with data could do that as a summer job. The skills required aren't exceptional. Not having a go at you GoatGuy, it's the sloppy logic behind the decision to outsource a simple task.

[Walking Buffalo]

The survey is part of an update on the economics of resident hunting. The last survey was done in 1995 IIRC.

It helps resident hunters and organizations which promote/support resident hunting in a couple dozen ways most importantly showing how much resident hunters contribute through expenditures. These things help decision makers inform themselves for job creation through hunting opportunity and wildlife abundance. It also helps demonstrate the value of hunting to non-hunting British Columbians.

It's important that the surveys are answered factually.

40incher, this is not a contingent valuation study and this survey does not ask about the perceived value of license and tags. It is a commitment government made quite some time ago.


Do you have a link to the 1995 survey?




A Hunting economic impact study for Alberta in 2008.



Hunting in Alberta in 2008: Performance,Value and Socioeconomic ImpactsVolume II

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$Department/deptdocs.nsf/all/csi12823/$FILE/Volume-II-Hunting-May-15.pdf

[GoatGuy]

Maybe, but it doesn't take an Astrophysicist to read a survey from a script (straying from the script can give unreliable results as I understand it) and record the answers. If they're taped, all you need is someone to transcribe the results. Any university kid wanting to work with data could do that as a summer job. The skills required aren't exceptional. Not having a go at you GoatGuy, it's the sloppy logic behind the decision to outsource a simple task.
Here's a link to the provider:

http://www.responsivemanagement.com/

If it was a 'simple task' it would be done in-house. The branch used to have an economist but doesn't any more.

[GoatGuy]

Do you have a link to the 1995 survey?




A Hunting economic impact study for Alberta in 2008.



Hunting in Alberta in 2008: Performance,Value and Socioeconomic Impacts
Volume II

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$Department/deptdocs.nsf/all/csi12823/$FILE/Volume-II-Hunting-May-15.pdf

1985
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/techpub/valueres/valueres.pdf

Under tourism and recreation data:

http://www.agf.gov.bc.ca/clad/strategic_land/econ_analysis/data_sources/economic.html

[Ltbullken]

I would like to hear from the BCWF on how this information is going to be used. I know they are not conducting it but has the BCWF asked the government about its intentions with this survey? It can strike many ways for or against hunting in developing strategies.

[GoatGuy]

I was requested by the BCWF and was part of the allocation policy. At the higher level everyone talks about jobs and revenue- hunters need that data to be able to increase our presence and rationalize our needs for funding and inventory.

[jetboat jim]

no question on bow , other than purchases.
wanted to know $ spent on traveling
equiptment
gas
lodging
tags
quite a few questions on bear hunting
and if i would persue bear if it was more expencive
I asked and he informed me it was just a general survey
i leaned a little harder and asked if it had anything to do with groups wanting to ban bear hunting , he said " we are trying to collect info so we can decide what to do in the future , regarding bear hunting"

[1899]

no question on bow , other than purchases.
wanted to know $ spent on traveling
equiptment
gas
lodging
tags
quite a few questions on bear hunting
and if i would persue bear if it was more expencive
I asked and he informed me it was just a general survey
i leaned a little harder and asked if it had anything to do with groups wanting to ban bear hunting , he said " we are trying to collect info so we can decide what to do in the future , regarding bear hunting"


Aha. As I mentioned I found it odd how they zero'd in on bear hunting and the cost relating to bear hunting.

Goatguy, I know you say everything is ok with this survey, but it sure does seem odd, doesn't it?

[houndogger]

I'm hoping they are trying to gather data on how important grizz hunting is? I thought the questions were cause I had a grizz draw last year?

[Gun Dog]

Economic benefits can't be determined based on a survey every 8 years. This year I happened to buy an rifle & scope but I have enough gear so most years I don't buy anything except fuel and food. A lot of outdoor activities cost almost nothing once you have the gear and the gear can last a long time.

[Mr. Dean]

Economic benefits can't be determined based on a survey every 8 years. This year I happened to buy an rifle & scope but I have enough gear so most years I don't buy anything except fuel and food. A lot of outdoor activities cost almost nothing once you have the gear and the gear can last a long time.

True but when you look at the Big Wheel and see what all users are doing, there's a lot of activity.
Don't forget, gear is consumable and needs to be maintained and replaced... A lot of the little stuff is what makes our economy tick.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

They called me when I was up a tree. Said they would call back but haven't yet. That was on Sunday.

SSS

[The Hermit]

Wrong. We have my golf buddy Rob Malatest's company http://www.malatest.com/ right here in Victoria.Malatest has a more than enough expertise and resources to handle just about any survey and have decades of experience just that. The expertise required is in the survey design and analysis not the collection. The Gov is supposed to put any contract over $25K out to tender, and although there are usually relatively clear criteria against which the bids are scored they almost always weigh price most heavily. Which doesn't always result in the best value for money. BC's policy is to provide a level playing field to companies from all jurisdictions that do the same - Joe's Surveys of Florida is on the same footing as Bill's Surveys of BC as long as Florida plays by the same rules.

[Mr. Dean]

I haven't talked w/ them.
Probably because I avoid call ID's that scream 'marketing,,,, total waste of my time' type calls.

And I'm sure there are a lot more like me out there....