New Halibut Quota April 1 2013

[Caribou_lou]

What's everyones thoughts on the new proposed quota?

1 a day 2 possession. No harvesting of Halibut over 60lbs. Also a limit of 6 a year. Lets hear your thoughts.

[lip_ripper00]

I have not read the proposal, do commercial and FN get to keep over 60lbs?. please post a link.

[Whonnock Boy]

I don't have a problem with the 6 a year. That can be a lot of fish! The problem I have is with the 1 a day, 2 possesion. It costs a lot of money to target the species, with both the charter costs, or personal vessel cost. Sure, knock our personal quota down a ton, but let us catch those 6 fish in a reasonable amount of time! With that said, the whole commercial, sport fishing allotment stinks to high heaven.

[EGLPNT]

QUOTE: With that said, the whole commercial, sport fishing allotment stinks to high heaven.[/QUOTE]

Agree 100%. Here's an article I found interesting. http://www.vancouversun.com/touch/story.html?id=7949850

[BlacktailStalker]

Yes I am curious about the FN and commercial catches. I hope they have been reduced significantly as well ?

[Krico]

If the measures are for sustainability reasons, and all involved parties have the same size limit, then so be it. However I'll be damned if I'm going to release anything big if the commercial boats and natives don't have to. I also have no problem with a limit on number of fish per year as one person or one family can only eat so much, but why do guys have to be limited to 1 a day? Even just going back to the 2/day and 3 possession like it was just a few short years ago would be a welcome change.

Unfortunately I'm sure as usual Jimmy will pay off the right people and the rest of us will be able to buy filets from those big halis from his stores...

[lorneparker1]

If the measures are for sustainability reasons, and all involved parties have the same size limit, then so be it. However I'll be damned if I'm going to release anything big if the commercial boats and natives don't have to. I also have no problem with a limit on number of fish per year as one person or one family can only eat so much, but why do guys have to be limited to 1 a day? Even just going back to the 2/day and 3 possession like it was just a few short years ago would be a welcome change.

Unfortunately I'm sure as usual Jimmy will pay off the right people and the rest of us will be able to buy filets from those big halis from his stores...


Well sir, i hate to break it to you, but this has nothing to do with sustainability and 100% to do with us rec folks staying within our measily 15% of your total allowable catch that. And yes you will release everyhting over 60lbs or you will be breaking the lawn. This was a brain wave that came from the group that represents us ( or is supposed to) the SFAB. Commercials and FN and kill any hali they want. Rec guys will be throwing back anything over 60lbs this year and only 1 of our 2 in possesion can be over 15lbs. I have said alot on this subject over the last few months, so ill leave it at that but ill link you some reading if you want to catch up a bit on whats been going on.... \


http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/showthread.php?22395-60lb-15lb-Halibut-Limit-Let-s-Discuss

[lorneparker1]

BTW we have almost the same amount of pounds allocated to us that we have had for the last 3 years. Yet we are getting restricted more and more with the thought of keeping the season open the longest possible ( which only benefits one user group) and sure as F@$!$@ isnt the rec fisherman.

Granted the people representing our sector were put ina tough spot by the DFO, but they defintely faltered HUGE In there mandate in my opinion. There are some amazing hard working individuals involved in the sfab ground leve, that do this all as volunteers. And thier hard work should be commended, but i feel thier efforts are being undermined by something much more powerful and that is the power of government and $$$. Its time to get back to lobbying and throwing a fit for what is ightfully for ours. The halibut in the water that belongs to each and every canadian and our RIGHT to it. Anyway its best to educate yourself on the subject before weighing in as there is alot to talk about with reagrds to this and its not exactly black and white.

[Krico]

I didn't read it all but appears to be for the most part 45 pages of thoughts similar to mine. Not sure what I can say here that hasn't been said over there. Pretty sad. Do fishing guides make up a large portion of the SFAB?

[blindguy]

I didn't read it all but appears to be for the most part 45 pages of thoughts similar to mine. Not sure what I can say here that hasn't been said over there. Pretty sad. Do fishing guides make up a large portion of the SFAB?

No they don,t and i'm not sure how this is good for only the guides? Try telling your guests they can only catch fish under 60lbs when they phone to book a trip for trophy halibut. imo it's good for no one but it's the way it's going to be for this season.

[Caribou_lou]

How about releasing these fish. Mortality on releasing big halibut? Circle hooks mandatory?

[lorneparker1]

No they don,t and i'm not sure how this is good for only the guides? Try telling your guests they can only catch fish under 60lbs when they phone to book a trip for trophy halibut. imo it's good for no one but it's the way it's going to be for this season.

Agreed, this isnt good for alot of guides, and in those areas those people are very upset (north island especially). This is also terrible for pretty much all DIY. However, this is all about extending the season, Which only benefits south island to open early and WCVI to keep open later then sept first. IN the mean time the rest of canada needs to jump through hoops all year with bullshit regualtions to appease these 2.

Btw thats just the way is see it.

One hing to note, is there are a TON of people within this process that thought this was BS, as well as people on the main board. And they should be commended. Unfortuneatly there wasnt enough of them

[SUAFOYT]

The BS below is the one we should be concerned about. The proposal that's in this thread is just that, a proposal. Could someone provide a link that shows that it's more than that? I can't find one.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?91610-DFO-Screwing-Sport-Fishing-Sector-Proposed-Changes-To-Halibut-Licence

[lorneparker1]

The BS below is the one we should be concerned about. The proposal that's in this thread is just that, a proposal. Could someone provide a link that shows that it's more than that? I can't find one.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?91610-DFO-Screwing-Sport-Fishing-Sector-Proposed-Changes-To-Halibut-Licence

Its a recommendation from the SFAB to the DFO. This is how the process works.

IPHC says you have this much fish you are allowed to catch.
DFO says Commies you get this, FN you get this, Sporties you get this.
Sporties...
Here are your options to fit within that Catch number.
Chose one.

An option is voted on then passed onto DFO as thier recommendation, Yes there is a MINOOT chance that the DFO will choose not accept this but that rarely ever happens, and there is so much buffer in this that it will be 100% forsure accepted by the dfo. THe meetings were within the last few weeks and the DFO said they will be sending a fisheries notice withing 2-3 weeks. So itll be here soon as the recommended opening is march 15th. Stay tuned.

[lorneparker1]

and lastly regarding the experimental license. This Plays PERFECTLY into the dfo's hands of guides and lodges buying quota. This is truly the beginning of the end folks... Once you buy quota you basically buy the right to catch as many halibut as you want to pay for. Worst of all, its basically on the honour system! hahahaha No daily or posession limits no size restrictions. NONE OF THAT. its a free pass as you pay for Lbs caught and all other restricitons dont matter (other then you can only fish during open commericial season). SO you get bet your britches that lodges on the north island, especially ones in winter harbour like quailcium rivers will be more then likely buying up some quota so they can still provide thier guests with the opportunity to a slab hali that they are known for and the main reason people choose them.

[Mr. Dean]

It pisses me off.
Since it got cut to 1 a day, my boats been in dry dock.

[blindguy]

Agreed, this isnt good for alot of guides, and in those areas those people are very upset (north island especially). This is also terrible for pretty much all DIY. However, this is all about extending the season, Which only benefits south island to open early and WCVI to keep open later then sept first. IN the mean time the rest of canada needs to jump through hoops all year with bullshit regualtions to appease these 2.

Btw thats just the way is see it.

One hing to note, is there are a TON of people within this process that thought this was BS, as well as people on the main board. And they should be commended. Unfortuneatly there wasnt enough of them



You nailed this bang on! i've talked to a few of the voting crew and they were just shaking there head ,but nothing they coulld do as you said just not enough of them. i'm also interested in how much of this experimental quota will get bought up? it's like there forcing the hands of some .

[blindguy]

It pisses me off.
Since it got cut to 1 a day, my boats been in dry dock.


Mr. Dean i think most fisherman while not happy about one a day understand that it's going to be the norm until we can get a bigger chunk of the tac,
most people aren't pissed at the 6 a year limit. People are pissed at the two slots we are going to have under 15lbs and under 60lbs.

[SUAFOYT]

and lastly regarding the experimental license. This Plays PERFECTLY into the dfo's hands of guides and lodges buying quota. This is truly the beginning of the end folks... Once you buy quota you basically buy the right to catch as many halibut as you want to pay for. Worst of all, its basically on the honour system! hahahaha No daily or posession limits no size restrictions. NONE OF THAT. its a free pass as you pay for Lbs caught and all other restricitons dont matter (other then you can only fish during open commericial season). SO you get bet your britches that lodges on the north island, especially ones in winter harbour like quailcium rivers will be more then likely buying up some quota so they can still provide thier guests with the opportunity to a slab hali that they are known for and the main reason people choose them.

Absolutely. They tried this last year on an experimental trial and it was a dismal failure. Now DFO wants to make this permanent. Bloody ridiculous. Really shows who's got DFO's ear. It certainly isn't the sport sector that puts more $ into the economy.

[Spy]

I for one will not buy a lisence this year, vedors should tell dfo they wont be selling them either. A all out boycott, 400000 + all standing together should send a strong message.

[Caribou_lou]

Makes a guy wonder what's in stock for 2014 season. This plan isnt going to slow the lodges down.

[Wild one]

No they don,t and i'm not sure how this is good for only the guides? Try telling your guests they can only catch fish under 60lbs when they phone to book a trip for trophy halibut. imo it's good for no one but it's the way it's going to be for this season.

You are correct this will be bad for guides.

If I understand correct it is 1 15lbs or less and 1 60lbs or less possession if so this part is a joke.

As someone who has booked there first ever charter for this season this is bad news. This was a trip I have been looking forward to and was to celebrate getting married. I can honestly say if I knew this was going to happen I would have booked a trip outside of BC. The money we will be spending for our trip will be around $5000 and by the sounds of this our trip will fall short of what we hoped for. If it was not for other species of interest I would be cancelling and booking else where. I had no intent in keep huge hali but a 15lbs holds no interest to me.

This will not help Vancouver islands economy

Thanks DFO for screwing the pooch once again

[Keta1969]

I've said it in previous posts and I'll say it again, the average rec .fisherman and the commercial sports sectors interests are not the same. Rec. fishermen have just been given it up the A**.These recommendations from the SFAB(not DFO) are all about extending the lodges season. It's ridiculous to think if I go for halibut I may have to let an 80 pound fish go to come home empty handed..These recommendations are not about conservation(I actually think it will cause mortalities) but all to do with business.Next time they ask you to stand together 400,000 strong and pressure the politicians for more quota remember what happened this time. They do account for between 60-70% of all halibut caught,who do you think they are going to look after.

[Wild one]

Keta1969 I don't see this helping lodges or charters read my post above

At this time I am actually considering cancelling one of the days I have booked because of this. I will place my bets there will be cancelations at lodges and charters do to this. It may extend there season but without the clients what good is that.

[Gateholio]

Required to carry a scale and weigh the fish?

[dryflyguy57]

So under this proposal could the lodges not fish under the recreational quota , which they have been doing and put any fish over 60 lbs on their IVQ poundage until the season closes . This fish could be leased or bought by the lodges which is what DFO wants anyhow . After the recreational quota is caught and we are shut down the lodges could still fish IVQ fish of any size as long as they have quota left . The price to catch a halibut for the client will increase to a per pound price on top the trip price or will be absorbed by the lodge I would guess . I think we the true recreational fishers are being bent over by the commercial sport lodges and the SFAB on this one . Some on this board are starting to see that Bob Wright and cronies are not our friends . Oh yeah , how does one weigh a thrashing 61 lb fish in the water, gaff first then measure or weigh ? There has to be a recognition that the lodges and guides are a commercial operation as their catch is going to increase as it has done .

[lorneparker1]

Required to carry a scale and weigh the fish?

nope but a tape measure!

Lorne

[Krico]

Are there new transport regulations coming as well, to allow for proof of size? Otherwise how can this possibly be enforced? Guys will just fillet their fish on board. We have always done this anyways and just left the skin on as required for transportation, then stuffed the carcasses in our crab traps to soak overnight.

[SUAFOYT]

Are there new transport regulations coming as well, to allow for proof of size? Otherwise how can this possibly be enforced? Guys will just fillet their fish on board. We have always done this anyways and just left the skin on as required for transportation, then stuffed the carcasses in our crab traps to soak overnight.

Read the current regs. What you've been doing isn't kosher.

[blindguy]

So under this proposal could the lodges not fish under the recreational quota , which they have been doing and put any fish over 60 lbs on their IVQ poundage until the season closes . This fish could be leased or bought by the lodges which is what DFO wants anyhow . After the recreational quota is caught and we are shut down the lodges could still fish IVQ fish of any size as long as they have quota left . The price to catch a halibut for the client will increase to a per pound price on top the trip price or will be absorbed by the lodge I would guess . I think we the true recreational fishers are being bent over by the commercial sport lodges and the SFAB on this one . Some on this board are starting to see that Bob Wright and cronies are not our friends . Oh yeah , how does one weigh a thrashing 61 lb fish in the water, gaff first then measure or weigh ? There has to be a recognition that the lodges and guides are a commercial operation as their catch is going to increase as it has done .


so you think guides and lodges will just buy the experimental quota and keep anysize fish and keep fishing once the sport sector is shut down ? sounds great , where do i sign up? oh wait i charge 1100$ a day , buy quota at 5-7$ lb lets say 5 $ and get 100lbs of fish which would probably be on the low side so thats 500$ i have to eat or and on the price to the charter. Can't work ,won't work unless there's guys out there that want to work for free.

So us guides are taking it up the ass as much as the rest of you .It's not a good thing for anybody but the commies as they kill the fish we have to let go.

[lorneparker1]

so you think guides and lodges will just buy the experimental quota and keep anysize fish and keep fishing once the sport sector is shut down ? sounds great , where do i sign up? oh wait i charge 1100$ a day , buy quota at 5-7$ lb lets say 5 $ and get 100lbs of fish which would probably be on the low side so thats 500$ i have to eat or and on the price to the charter. Can't work ,won't work unless there's guys out there that want to work for free.

So us guides are taking it up the ass as much as the rest of you .It's not a good thing for anybody but the commies as they kill the fish we have to let go.


I think if given the choice of a full cancellation or less bookings, vs buying quota and making a concession, guides will buy quota. Not the small one boat operations, But the big guys will. OBMG QCL qualicum rivers, etc. will be right in there buying it up. I hope im proven wrong.

THis is really a fight of 2 comericial enities and us rec guys being stuck in the middle ( and getting the screws hard in the process). the 85% is taken up by commericial fisherman alot who dont even fish. The other 15% is given to the Rec sector which Guides and lodges take 70% of. Some who dont even fish( the owners of the those big corporate enities i mentioned above). So commercials take 85% sport guides and lodges take 10.5% ( 70% of the 15%) and the rest of the 300,000 rec anglers are left with the scraps of 4.5%.

Sweet deal eh

[dryflyguy57]

so you think guides and lodges will just buy the experimental quota and keep anysize fish and keep fishing once the sport sector is shut down ? sounds great , where do i sign up? oh wait i charge 1100$ a day , buy quota at 5-7$ lb lets say 5 $ and get 100lbs of fish which would probably be on the low side so thats 500$ i have to eat or and on the price to the charter. Can't work ,won't work unless there's guys out there that want to work for free.

So us guides are taking it up the ass as much as the rest of you .It's not a good thing for anybody but the commies as they kill the fish we have to let go.
Yes I do think the big lodges will buy quota as Bob Wright already has . Their bookings will screw you as they already have and I think they have the capacity to take all the rec . allocation . If somebody wants to keep a halibut from a commercial sport operation in the future they are going to have to pay extra sooner than later, remember this is just what I think . Do you honestly think that with the FNs participation in the halibut IVQ that you are going to keep kicking and screaming and get more allocation , DFO has a buyback right now for halibut and blackcod , then you can lease from FN's . I do think that the client will have to pay to keep a halibut in the future . You and I disagree but thats the way i think it will go , not right at all and poorly handled by DFO. If this 60 lb limit goes thru believe me I think will stand as the largest screw up ever by DFO in this region next to the "Aboriginal Fishing Strategy"

[blindguy]

Yes I do think the big lodges will buy quota as Bob Wright already has . Their bookings will screw you as they already have and I think they have the capacity to take all the rec . allocation . If somebody wants to keep a halibut from a commercial sport operation in the future they are going to have to pay extra sooner than later, remember this is just what I think . Do you honestly think that with the FNs participation in the halibut IVQ that you are going to keep kicking and screaming and get more allocation , DFO has a buyback right now for halibut and blackcod , then you can lease from FN's . I do think that the client will have to pay to keep a halibut in the future . You and I disagree but thats the way i think it will go , not right at all and poorly handled by DFO. If this 60 lb limit goes thru believe me I think will stand as the largest screw up ever by DFO in this region next to the "Aboriginal Fishing Strategy"



just curious how you know Oak bay has already got quota?

[Whonnock Boy]

Stupid quote function!....

Lorne, with the "Commercial Guiding" industry, where is the clientele coming from percentage wise? Americans, Europeans, Canadians.........

[dryflyguy57]

just curious how you know Oak bay has already got quota?
Because they have purchased what is called an L Tab with minimum quota from a boat and licence broker that I have dealt with in the past . This allowed them to accumulate quota to this licence before the so called experimental quota was established . If you have followed the price of IVQ you may already know it has been a very good investment for those with the cash to get into it . Check out some of the commercial brokers and see what the price of an L tab and quota have done in the last few years . As the TAC(total allowable catch) drops the price goes up accordingly . You sound skeptical ? Oh yeah Jimmy owns a shit load ! I think Lorneparker 1 has got it totally figured out and believe me , we have not agreed in the past but I couldn't agree more with him now . How many lbs of halibut did you catch last year while at work ? Are you a one boat operation or a lodge ?

[Whonnock Boy]

How many lbs of halibut did you catch last year while at work ? Are you a one boat operation or a lodge ?

Again, where is the clientele from?

[lorneparker1]

Stupid quote function!....

Lorne, with the "Commercial Guiding" industry, where is the clientele coming from percentage wise? Americans, Europeans, Canadians.........


Depends really. I dont have any real data, to support what im saying so take it for what its worth. But I am pretty good friends with alot in the industry from , guys that guide on the weekends, guys that guide off and on during the summer, guys that guide every day in the summer and guides that guide all year long. THe big players ( 5k for 3-5 day typ outfits with big marketing budgets) consist of alot of yanks and some albertans, and minimal bc folks. THe mid level guys are usually a mixture of Canadians mostly albertans some from bc some from other provinces and some yanks. And the part time guys are usually the guys BC residents jump on along with other canadians, maybe the odd yank and of course albertans :)

I also if you are trying to get me to say its mostly canadians that take guides and your argument is going to be "well the people that take the guides are all canadians and guides just take them out, they are the taxi's" argument im totally ready for it for the 500th time. lol

or... i you could save your breathe and ill explain.

First, no one in the guiding industry had a revelation from god that they should be reasponsible to make sure all canadians have access to halibut. THey are not the deliverers, and not one of them got into the business because of that. They are in it for one reason, and those are as follows.

My problem is not with the the 1 or 2 boat operations. These guys are living the dream, and are mixture of guys doing what they love and trying to make an honest living doing it. Kudo's to them! or they are guys that are not really made out for the work force, are straight fish killers and are doing what they know best and trying to make a living. Again. kudos!

BUT the other folks the big multi million dollar operations are the ones i have a probelm with. Not because they are successful ( i am a business owner and hard core conservative and am very pro business) but because they piggy back on the rec quota to make thier businesses viable, and in turn we are restricted because of it. The rich get richer and the minions suffer. Sounds alot like the slipper skippers in the commerical sector doesnt it? A few big money quota holders making the big bucks while everyone one else suffers. It sounds alot like it because it is alot like it. Its actually almost i dentical. THese folks have the money and the clout to make stuff happen to benefit them and thier pocket books ( much like this SFAB recommendation) These guys shape seasons and make restrictions that will maximize thier PROFITS, not because they want to make sure every canadian has access to halibut. I get it thoough, and if the shoe were on the other foot, i might do the same. But it isnt, and i refuse to stand idel while this shit is shoved down our throat.

Lorne

[dryflyguy57]

Again, where is the clientele from?
You reply to my questions with a question . I don't know the percentage of Americans , Canadians , Europeans, Japanese , etc . Sounds like you know the answer . Where are they from ?

[Keta1969]

It doesn't really matter where the clientele come from,they pay good money to catch fish and they expect to catch them. Guides are good at what they do, they do it every day and know exactly where to go for the best chance at a fish. This is the business end of sport fishing. Some rec. guys are very good also and a lot of rec guys feel fortunate to get 1 or 2 halibut in a season. This 60lb limit is ridiculous, it really penalizes the weekend guy that may take a day or 2 to find the fish and then have to figure out if its 55 or 65 lbs and not kill it in the process but it will certainly keep the poundage numbers down so the lodges can keep advertising that halibut is open. Hopefully saner heads in DFO will prevail and reject this proposal. It's bad for rec fishermen and it's bad for the resource.

[blindguy]

Because they have purchased what is called an L Tab with minimum quota from a boat and licence broker that I have dealt with in the past . This allowed them to accumulate quota to this licence before the so called experimental quota was established . If you have followed the price of IVQ you may already know it has been a very good investment for those with the cash to get into it . Check out some of the commercial brokers and see what the price of an L tab and quota have done in the last few years . As the TAC(total allowable catch) drops the price goes up accordingly . You sound skeptical ? Oh yeah Jimmy owns a shit load ! I think Lorneparker 1 has got it totally figured out and believe me , we have not agreed in the past but I couldn't agree more with him now . How many lbs of halibut did you catch last year while at work ? Are you a one boat operation or a lodge ?

No not sceptical at all i was just curious thats all because at our meetings they are the first to tell everybody not to buy quota. your rite i don't agree with Lorneparker much either but i think he has got this one! lol

i'm a one boat fulltime guide, i'd say 90% canadian groups and the rest are from the u.s

as far as poundage goes not sure but every group leaves with there limit from the time it opens till we get shut down.

[Whonnock Boy]

Depends really. I dont have any real data, to support what im saying so take it for what its worth. But I am pretty good friends with alot in the industry from , guys that guide on the weekends, guys that guide off and on during the summer, guys that guide every day in the summer and guides that guide all year long. THe big players ( 5k for 3-5 day typ outfits with big marketing budgets) consist of alot of yanks and some albertans, and minimal bc folks. THe mid level guys are usually a mixture of Canadians mostly albertans some from bc some from other provinces and some yanks. And the part time guys are usually the guys BC residents jump on along with other canadians, maybe the odd yank and of course albertans :)

Yeah, I kind of figured that. So we all can agree that a good portion of the guiding industries clientele is Canadian, Canadians that have just as much right to those fish as you do. From my point of view, lumping the guiding industry in with all the other people you are pissed at is flawed.

For how many years did resident fisherman go out free reign and pound the slabs even though their freezers were full. Giving fish to aunts, cousins, neighbours, co-workers, or anyone for that matter. I'm not pointing fingers, just stating facts. Add in the the commercial and native quotas being over harvested and now we are here today with historically low halibut numbers, and who is to blame? Everyone!

I don't care how it is done, I would just like to see the halibut numbers rebound. I would also like to see the Govt. and Jimmy pound sand!

[lorneparker1]

Yeah, I kind of figured that. So we all can agree that a good portion of the guiding industries clientele is Canadian, Canadians that have just as much right to those fish as you do. From my point of view, lumping the guiding industry in with all the other people you are pissed at is flawed.

For how many years did resident fisherman go out free reign and pound the slabs even though their freezers were full. Giving fish to aunts, cousins, neighbours, co-workers, or anyone for that matter. I'm not pointing fingers, just stating facts. Add in the the commercial and native quotas being over harvested and now we are here today with historically low halibut numbers, and who is to blame? Everyone!

I don't care how it is done, I would just like to see the halibut numbers rebound. I would also like to see the Govt. and Jimmy pound sand!

I guess you missed the second part of my post, or chose to ignore it..... but here it is again....

I also if you are trying to get me to say its mostly canadians that take guides and your argument is going to be "well the people that take the guides are all canadians and guides just take them out, they are the taxi's" argument im totally ready for it for the 500th time. lol

or... i you could save your breathe and ill explain.

First, no one in the guiding industry had a revelation from god that they should be reasponsible to make sure all canadians have access to halibut. THey are not the deliverers, and not one of them got into the business because of that. They are in it for one reason, and those are as follows.

My problem is not with the the 1 or 2 boat operations. These guys are living the dream, and are mixture of guys doing what they love and trying to make an honest living doing it. Kudo's to them! or they are guys that are not really made out for the work force, are straight fish killers and are doing what they know best and trying to make a living. Again. kudos!

BUT the other folks the big multi million dollar operations are the ones i have a probelm with. Not because they are successful ( i am a business owner and hard core conservative and am very pro business) but because they piggy back on the rec quota to make thier businesses viable, and in turn we are restricted because of it. The rich get richer and the minions suffer. Sounds alot like the slipper skippers in the commerical sector doesnt it? A few big money quota holders making the big bucks while everyone one else suffers. It sounds alot like it because it is alot like it. Its actually almost i dentical. THese folks have the money and the clout to make stuff happen to benefit them and thier pocket books ( much like this SFAB recommendation) These guys shape seasons and make restrictions that will maximize thier PROFITS, not because they want to make sure every canadian has access to halibut. I get it thoough, and if the shoe were on the other foot, i might do the same. But it isnt, and i refuse to stand idel while this shit is shoved down our throat.

Lorne


Lastly to adress some of your other comments. IF you think the rec fishermans measily 15% has anything to do with halibut abundance you are ignorant to this whole thing. here is the catch limits for 2013 along our coast.



Regulatory Area
Catch Limit
(pounds)


Area 2A (California, Oregon, and Washington



Non-treaty directed commercial (south of Pt. Chehalis)
173,390


Non-treaty incidental catch in salmon troll fishery
30,600


Non-treaty incidental catch in sablefish fishery (north of Pt. Chehalis)
21,410


Treaty Indian commercial
314,300


Treaty Indian ceremonial and subsistence (year-round)
32,200


Sport – North of Columbia River
214,110


Sport – South of Columbia River
203,990


Area 2A total
990,000






Area 2B (British Columbia) (includes sport catch allocation)
7,038,000


Area 2C (southeastern Alaska)
2,970,000








Area 3A (central Gulf of Alaska)
11,030,000


Area 3B (western Gulf of Alaska)
4,290,000






Area 4A (eastern Aleutians)
1,330,000


Area 4B (western Aleutians)
1,450,000


Area 4C (Pribilof Islands)
859,000


Area 4D (northwestern Bering Sea)
859,000


Area 4E (Bering Sea flats)
212,000


Area 4 total
4,710,000


Total
31,028,000




Rec fisherman in BC are going to account for 30% of that 15% that is allocated it to us. Which is about 300,000 lbs of the 7,000,000 BC has be given and less then 1% of the TAC for the ENTIRE coast. IF you want to start pointing fingers, point towards the Alaska pollock fishery, wich a by catch of over 10,000,000 lbs last year and every year in recent memory! most of those fish being small fish ( like ping pong paddle size).

Also FTR IPHC has said that halibut has been in decline for over 15 yearsm due to alot of reasons, but mostly change in abundance of age group. This year they stated that it seems that as of last year 2012 the halibut biomass has leveled off and is not declining. Halibut is one, if not the best managed fishery IN THE WORLD. THis is not a conservation issue. This is big business sticking it to everyone else.

[kyleklassen]

30,000 incidental in the troll fishery.....thats ****ed up......must be trawl fishery. any halibut caught in a salmon troll fishery can be released alive. no need for incidental there.

[blindguy]

i'm with you on that lorne even when i was a young buck one of the highliners used to tell me that halibut are the only fish in the pacific managed properly.

[lorneparker1]

30,000 incidental in the troll fishery.....thats ****ed up......must be trawl fishery. any halibut caught in a salmon troll fishery can be released alive. no need for incidental there.

LOL yes a trawl, not a troll. IM not sure if i was the one that said that ( i dont think so) but either way trawl is the correct terminology

[Whonnock Boy]

Stupid quote function! Lol!

No I didn't ignore or miss your post Lorne, just read it before you edited. That was a much better explanation of your concerns. Not much I can argue with there. Cheers!

[lorneparker1]

Same to you sir!~

Back to watching the canucks blow it in the 3rd!

Lorne

[fowl language]

whonnock boy, if you get a chance, perhaps you could look up the halibut cycles,this might answer your question about historical lows......fowl

[Piperdown]

even when i was a young buck

:shock: couldn't resist :)

[SUAFOYT]

I think if given the choice of a full cancellation or less bookings, vs buying quota and making a concession, guides will buy quota. Not the small one boat operations, But the big guys will. OBMG QCL qualicum rivers, etc. will be right in there buying it up. I hope im proven wrong.

THis is really a fight of 2 comericial enities and us rec guys being stuck in the middle ( and getting the screws hard in the process). the 85% is taken up by commericial fisherman alot who dont even fish. The other 15% is given to the Rec sector which Guides and lodges take 70% of. Some who dont even fish( the owners of the those big corporate enities i mentioned above). So commercials take 85% sport guides and lodges take 10.5% ( 70% of the 15%) and the rest of the 300,000 rec anglers are left with the scraps of 4.5%.

Sweet deal eh

Exactly. What hasn't been mentioned is that the FN quota is allocated first. 17% right off the top. The percentages then allocated are of the remaining 83%. So in reality it's 15% of the 83% for the sport sector. Quite a number of the FN simply sell their quota to another operator and never have to leave the dock. The FN catch reporting is not mandatory so no accounting. The quota that anyone in the sport sector might buy must be done in advance, with a log book along with all the other BS. So if you want to buy sport quota you have to be some kind of wizard to know how much to buy. If they wish they can sell "unused" quota to some guy wanting to go and get a freakin' fish. You know there's going to be a mark up- a big one. No one should buy into this DFO bullshit.

A recommendation for a halibut stamp, along with a seasonal limit has been proposed several times, with the money going to buy up unused commercial quota for the sport sector. DFO's answer is that it can't be implemented. Too difficult they say. We've had the Chinook stamp for years with no issues.

Last and not least is that the 15% sport allocation is now before the courts as well. The commercial groups have sued DFO saying that they had no authority to increase it from 12%. This is in the Supreme Court of Canada. Huge bucks. Who's funding the case for the commercial sector? I don't know. But ask yourself who owns most of the commercial quota for halibut on the West Coast.

[lorneparker1]

There is a propsed annual limit of 6 for 2013 on the table which i 100% support. Who needs more then 6 fish ? it also stops the residents that can go every day and pound the crap out of them, and it stops any lodge gifting. So im good with that. This malcom case will be set a precendent like never before in the halibut fishery, Either a good one or a terrible one. IF you lose this we are doomed. SFI and BCWF have invested over 70k in helping fight this for us so they should be commended.

[rainman]

i have no problem with 6 a year after that it gets really f#@$%^ed up,there is so much wrong with this i dont know where to start...how do you get a 60 lb hali in your boat to measure it?measure it in the water?...i am NOT a poacher by any means but i go hali fishing a couple times a year if i get a 65 lber its getting bonked and feeding my family.UNTIL everyone is treated equally and fairly..you know where i am going with this...i will eat any fish i choose to.....this size limit on hali is going to work just like 10 point moose,know how many dead 9 point moose ive found over the years??know how many dead 65 and 70 lb halibut are going to be feeding crabs?

[Gateholio]

I also see massive non compliance with the 60 lb rule. When any regulation becomes to onerous or seems unfair, people will just ignore them.

[longstonec]

Required to carry a scale and weigh the fish?

Salmon, Marlin, and Halibut all grow proportionally. So you have to measure the length of the fish to figure out its weight.

http://www.iphc.int/publications/bulletins/lenwtimp.pdf

[SUAFOYT]

There is a propsed annual limit of 6 for 2013 on the table which i 100% support. Who needs more then 6 fish ? it also stops the residents that can go every day and pound the crap out of them, and it stops any lodge gifting. So im good with that. This malcom case will be set a precendent like never before in the halibut fishery, Either a good one or a terrible one. IF you lose this we are doomed. SFI and BCWF have invested over 70k in helping fight this for us so they should be commended.

Absolutely true. The annual limit has been proposed for years by the sport sector. The current system is inherently unfair. Live on the Island, whack em every day. Come from somewhere else in Canada, 2 fish total. Stupid.

[Gateholio]

Salmon, Marlin, and Halibut all grow proportionally. So you have to measure the length of the fish to figure out its weight.

http://www.iphc.int/publications/bulletins/lenwtimp.pdf

So you gaff the halibut, pull it aboard, measure it and if it's 55" you dump it back. :) Great plan they came up with.

[dryflyguy57]

So you gaff the halibut, pull it aboard, measure it and if it's 55" you dump it back. :) Great plan they came up with.
As you know we are dealing with DFO here . I expect no less from them , hopefully common sense will prevail .

[longstonec]

So you gaff the halibut, pull it aboard, measure it and if it's 55" you dump it back. :) Great plan they came up with.

NO NO NO you dont gaff it. thats what harpoons are for. way easyer.

[Sundance1972]

Like most, I have no problem with the 6 a year. The rest is crap, just like the coho regs (one hatchery here, two wild over there. Pick a limit, wether it's 2 or 4, catch your fish and hit the beach instead of wounding 6 wilds trying to find your last hatchery. I realize this is to try to preserve the wild stocks, but how many of us have left a couple "floaters" behind the boat?)
Why not just say you're allowed 6 a year at an estimated weight, (1 or 2 a day) and then you're done for the season?
How many people do you think are going to get hurt bringing a live halibut in the boat so they can try to pin it down and measure it? For anyone that has never caught one, THIS IS NOT AN EASY TASK!!! Halibut are incredibly strong fish, boats (and bones) have been destroyed by inexperienced fisherman.

[blindguy]

there's no need and you should not bring in a live haly to measure it! measure from the back corner of your boat to whatever the length is and put a little mark (black tape) at that measurment to easy . cut leader or remove hooks done deal

[scott h]

If you bonk that 65 pounder you are a poacher .

[BlacktailStalker]

lol yeah bring in a 65lb hali and watch it smash your boat and legs up real good. Blindguy knows, for sure that is the way.

[rainman]

If you bonk that 65 pounder you are a poacher .

can anyone tell me the length difference between a 58 lb and 62 lb halibut?just wondering, the mark on the back of the boat is a good idea but how accurate is it going to be with a halibut thrashing around,and to respond to scott im not going to go out and kill 20 halibut this year i might get out once or twice,UNTIL all user groups are treated equally that 65 pounder is going in the deepfreeze

[blindguy]

can anyone tell me the length difference between a 58 lb and 62 lb halibut?just wondering, the mark on the back of the boat is a good idea but how accurate is it going to be with a halibut thrashing around,and to respond to scott im not going to go out and kill 20 halibut this year i might get out once or twice,UNTIL all user groups are treated equally that 65 pounder is going in the deepfreeze


There might not be a difference in length as some are thicker than others, thats why there coming up with a length to go by. i've caught thousands and thousands of halibut and the odd one goes crazy at the side of the boat but for the most part if you don't lift there head out of water they just lay there all nice. if they come up straight up and down because there's not much tide just put your boat in gear and they will flaten out so you can check your measurment .

[Hook or Bullet]

Until SW guiding is considered a commercial activity like it is in freshwater and the operators are licensed, regulated and included in the commercial TAC we will continue to see these crazy restrictions and allocations.

[dryflyguy57]

Until SW guiding is considered a commercial activity like it is in freshwater and the operators are licensed, regulated and included in the commercial TAC we will continue to see these crazy restrictions and allocations.
Exactly , why is a lodge not a commercial fishery ? Will start to sink in for the 400,000 recreational sportfishermen soon I hope . The commercial recreational fishery is certainly destroying the recreational fishery in this province .

[40incher]

Until SW guiding is considered a commercial activity like it is in freshwater and the operators are licensed, regulated and included in the commercial TAC we will continue to see these crazy restrictions and allocations.[/QUOTE]


The real "primary" BC resident anglers are getting screwed. The "secondary" commercial lodge anglers are controlling the show. DFO and the SFAB need to be made aware that they have their priority backwards. First they should look in the dictionary and recognize that primary means first in priority. That means last on the water, not sitting on shore with their boats stored away.

I have read all the posts and you sure can tell who the apologists for the guides and lodges are.

There are also some statements being made that need clarification.

The lodges, guides and their associates control what happens at the SFAB once it gets beyond the local committees. This is nothing new but the recent halibut decision has their true long-term colors showing. The fact is that there are few real primary votes at the table.

The annual limit of six may not be a problem to some of you now but don't think for a second that the number won't drop until it matches the two-day possession limit for the guided/lodge clients. We'll be looking at an annual limit of two, and more likely one very soon. Any annual limit should have been discussed very broadly before it was ever agreed to so flippantly. According to the SFAB Main Board minutes only one person voted against this drastic change.

An annual limit will not affect gifting of halibut to paying clients from guides, assistant guides and any other lodge staff. That is one of the most insane excuses for restricting the primary angler ever dreamed up. Commercial gifting will only be wiped out when it is made illegal. Why should BC resident marine anglers be restricted because the commercial angling sector can't control their greed!?

When 70% or more of the angler's halibut catch is taken by commercial clients how does that reflect the priority of primary anglers!? With a 2013 fishery that spans only 6 months if we are lucky (April 1st to August 31st) that 70% will likely increase. Not that long ago we had an 11-month season on much of the BC Coast, but now a year-long resident of Prince Rupert can't even take one fish in the winter period because of the gold-rush mentality of the industry.

The size slot limits will result in much wounding mortality and waste. That does not seem to matter to the industry. They only want to extend the season until they are off the water. The 60 pound threshhold is not there for conservation of female spawners, it is just a feel-good gesture that will result in dead fish that don't show up in the catch.

It's time for the real "primary" anglers to stand up before it is too late. The halibut boondoggle is only the start of the loss of our common-property rights. Gifting of chinook and coho salmon is rampant in the industry, and once enough clients can be booked to kill the annual chinook angling allocation in 6 months we will be sitting on shore watching for the rest of the year.

[Mr. Dean]

Quote; lorneparker1


... SFI and BCWF have invested over 70k in helping fight this for us so they should be commended.


Fishy guys need to step up and put their money where their mouth is!
I'm not going to just sit back and let this issue ride out to see what I'm permitted, to be taken away.

Pro active or Pacifist?
Simple choice...

[Keta1969]

Quote; lorneparker1


Fishy guys need to step up and put their money where their mouth is!
I'm not going to just sit back and let this issue ride out to see what I'm permitted, to be taken away.

Pro active or Pacifist?
Simple choice...


Why would I pony up more money as a resident sportsfisherman if all more quota does is result in more lodges and commercial sportsfleet to catch it and we get screwed again.If it's a business let them buy quota instead of raping us.

[blindguy]

Why would I pony up more money as a resident sportsfisherman if all more quota does is result in more lodges and commercial sportsfleet to catch it and we get screwed again.If it's a business let them buy quota instead of raping us.

Please explain to me how any of these new regs help out lodges or owner operator guides?

most lodges run from may to sept so why would they care to lengthen the season? The 6 per is a good thing for everyone who needs more than 6per anyways? The size limit certainly doesn't help the lodges who have to tell there guests if they want to catch a trophy fish go to Alaska.

these new regs are no good for any sportfishing Canadian weather they have there own boat or hire a guide or are a guide. Not sure how anybody can say the sfab was working to help the comercial sport sector first and foremost.

[Keta1969]

Please explain to me how any of these new regs help out lodges or owner operator guides?

most lodges run from may to sept so why would they care to lengthen the season? The 6 per is a good thing for everyone who needs more than 6per anyways? The size limit certainly doesn't help the lodges who have to tell there guests if they want to catch a trophy fish go to Alaska.

these new regs are no good for any sportfishing Canadian weather they have there own boat or hire a guide or are a guide. Not sure how anybody can say the sfab was working to help the comercial sport sector first and foremost.

Why don't you explain to me how the new regs help out a resident angler that just wants to go get a halibut. These changes were brought in solely to extend the season for the lodges.They control the SFAB. Why have a size limit and kill fish at the side of the boat trying to release them.I realize we have a different point of view on this but in no way does this work for the resident angler or for the fish.

[blindguy]

Did you even read my post? lol

these new regs are no good for any sportfishing Canadian weather they have there own boat or hire a guide or are a guide. Not sure how anybody can say the sfab was working to help the comercial sport sector first and foremost.

Also as my above post says how does it help the lodges to extend the season when 90% of them close in sept anyways.

[Mr. Dean]

It's all about access being limited to what we are ENTITLED to.
If we win this court case, ALL recreational fisheries win and this "divide and conquer" crap ends.

Compromising on entitlement isn't a language where I live and right now (and over the years), we are being robbed of it.

The resource isn't up for negotiations!
I want whats mine and NOT what someone deems to be mine.

Exactly how threatened does one need to be BEFORE they are willing to fight back???
I don't get it....

[lorneparker1]

Blind guy,

I am not anti guide by any stretch, but the SFAB is very Pro guide. I dont know everything but i do know they were lobbied very hard especially near the end by the West coast guides assocation. I have the letter written to them by thier president and it specifically spells out the number one goal is having a season till at least Spet 15th. THe limits are 100% geared to catering to West coast Guides. That is it that is all. The original suggestion was for an Arpil 1 start. Which would have completely put the screws to the vicotria guys and thank god they have a strong Rep in Chris bos. 6 fish a year is more then enough for anyone. But that is not the point. We shouldnt have to have this restriciton or the slot for that matter if it wasnt for these huge lodges pounding the crap out of the halis and OUR QUOTA.

And if you think the 60lb limit is going to send people to Alaska. WRONG. Guys will buy quota and into the experimental license. Here is a scenario that i know of.

I am good friends with a fair amount of guides. One of them has a group of 8 professionals that book with him every year for 5 days for the last 13 years. They have a largest halibut derby. Comibined they spend 50k with his outfit yearly including tips. THey have said they want to continue this tradition and are going to buy quota to make sure they can continue. My friend does not want to support the quota buying but he cant walk away from 50k.

in 2011 OBMG said they would never buy into the quota system. I would like to see thier stance and others now. THey might not go buy it, but if thier guests do ( and some will 100%) do you think they are ANYONE for that matter is going to walk away from the $$?

I think we know the answer.

We need to win the malcom case, We need more quota. Until then we will continue to have our rec sector managed by the people with the biggest pocket books. No different then anything else i guess.

[dryflyguy57]

Geez you admit huge lodges are pounding the shit out of OUR QUOTA ( if it was yours you would be pounding the shit out of it ) then your last sentence you want to go after the commercial sector . You seem to understand the problem but want to get the fish from another sector . How about the "industrial solution " if you want to own a business enterprise commercial sport or commercial and catch halibut you invest accordingly . The guy with the best business plan wins , the participants buy what they need to grow and the tin boat crowd "joe resident" can go catch some to eat without the erosion of rights in the future . Today 6 fish might be fine for you but what will you think when they serve up 3 . This is not going away . Remember when the TAC was 13,000,000 lbs the 12% was good enough . The main reason we have a shortage now is the TAC set by the IPHC is down to almost half of its highs not that many years ago and the commercial lodges catching 70 % . Classic case , individual with no organization ie. the resident getting hosed by money making ventures that spend the weekdays lobbying(or kissing) the right DFO dick .

[Caribou_lou]

I really don't see how this system is going to limit gifting by the lodges and guides. If anything I see it as raising the amount of gifting that will happen now with the 60lb restriction. They need to make gifting illegal to limit it from happening.

[40incher]

Blindguy,

Right on! You prove my point.

To quote you:

"Why would this help the big lodges extend their season when 90% of them close in September anyways."

The "halibut season" only needs to incorporate their "season" it seems. Who cares about unassisted Canadian anglers who might want to fish between September and April. Especially those anglers that live on or near the coast and might like to harvest a fish to eat outside of the "lodge season". Even the small day-charters out of the coastal communities are getting screwed by this SFAB agreement. These small, but very beneficial, local operations should see these regulations are not in their best
interests either.

If the lodges get their way the season will be June 1st to August 31st, as long as they can keep robbing from our common-property rights as Canadian citizens. You are very large commercial operations, pay your way.

As for the constant push by the lodge supporters to suggest that guided and/or assisted Canadian anglers (who can pay $5,000.00 to kill a few fish) are part of this equation, please understand that this dysingenuos position has had its day and fails the test. The "only the rich will fish" position is not defensible to the 30 million Canadians that have really have a say in common property issues.

It's time to do the right thing for a change.

[lorneparker1]

Dryflyguy

You mis interpted what i was saying. Ive had a few beers, so i ll post tomorrow but rest assured We are on the same page and team.


Lorne

P.s 40incher while i agree with most of what you said, i see alot of fist pounding but not really any solutions being given. What do you think is the answer?

[Whonnock Boy]

If the lodges get their way the season will be June 1st to August 31st, as long as they can keep robbing from our common-property rights as Canadian citizens. You are very large commercial operations, pay your way.


Lets just say I do not own a boat, I am a Canadian resident, and I live in B.C. Whether I would like to fish at Langara, or Joe Blow's One Man Charter Emporium, why should I have to pay the business, so they can buy quota, so I can go and catch one of my six fish that I am aloud to retain on my resident fishing license?

[Mr. Dean]

Q;

Exactly *when* is the TAC expected to increase again?
Surely it's been forecasted.

[Mr. Dean]

Lets just say I do not own a boat, I am a Canadian resident, and I live in B.C. Whether I would like to fish at Langara, or Joe Blow's One Man Charter Emporium, why should I have to pay the business, so they can buy quota, so I can go and catch one of my six fish that I am aloud to retain on my resident fishing license?

I feel for ya and agree w/ ya.
Except on yearly limitation of catch - That's a slippery slope with no valley bottom.

[Rob167432]

Let the lodges and guides buy or lease their own halibut quotas like any other commercial operation. Then the real recreational fishers would most likely fish year round.

[blindguy]

lorne i think were on the same page except for a few things , guess were going to have to agree to disagree. lol

As far as oak bay marina operations i was told rite from the horses mouth they are not buying into the quota system and they will turn down any of there guests that get there own. I'm not talking for all lodges just for the Oak Bay marine group.

Now lets figure away to fix this crap!

[40incher]

The answer begins with putting the unassited Canadian angler first and foremost. I'm sure everyone agrees with this concept.

Designing an 11-month season as we had a few years ago requires some control of the kill during the peak season. One halibut per day and one in possession, with no slot size, makes way more sense from many angles. Less enforcement issues regarding legal size, the ability to process fish as in the past (filet and label), less wastage as badly-hooked large fish can be tagged and recorded instead of becoming crab fodder.

Realize that commercial fisheries cannot be allowed to expand in an unlimited fashion. Commercial angling has needed to have parameters put around it for many years but has met with resistence of course. This is where DFO needs to be more practive.

Gifting within the commercial angling sector needs to be made illegal as they cannot control themselves it seems. This issue will need to be addressed with all species before we face the same problem with chinook. Imposing an annual limit on unassisted Canadian anglers does very little when they are only taking 30% of the halibut.

[Whonnock Boy]

The answer begins with putting the unassited Canadian angler first and foremost. I'm sure everyone agrees with this concept.

You're on crack! So what you are saying is, only those with their own vessels can go fish first? Where do we draw the line between assisted, and unassisted? A friends boat is okay, but a charter service is not? Both scenarios the angler is being assisted in getting his fish. I'm Canadian, and I have just as much right to fish for halibut as you do, whether I have my own boat, or I rent a boat and skipper is myself, or pay for the most expensive lodge on the coast. Get real!

[Caribou_lou]

You're on crack! So what you are saying is, only those with their own vessels can go fish first? Where do we draw the line between assisted, and unassisted? A friends boat is okay, but a charter service is not? Both scenarios the angler is being assisted in getting his fish. I'm Canadian, and I have just as much right to fish for halibut as you do, whether I have my own boat, or I rent a boat and skipper is myself, or pay for the most expensive lodge on the coast. Get real!

I think you may have misinterpreted what he was saying.

[Whonnock Boy]

I think you may have misinterpreted what he was saying.
I hope so.

[SUAFOYT]

Guys;

Is this a licence to steel or what? If you don't want updates let me know.

Ken

The following are a series of emails from a friend on the Island sent to try and get info on the recreational halibut fishery for 2013. It is a testament to the total lack of a concise plan for this fishery, along with any coherent method of determining how the fishery is to be handled. I find the responses from DFO in Ottawa that they basically don't have any info on FISHERIES to give out. What the f#*k are we paying these people for, and who's running this insane asylum?


Mar 11, 2013 12:33:02 PM, Chantelle.Caron@dfo-mpo.gc.ca wrote:

Hello XXX



Your email was forwarded to me from the Pacific Licencing Unit and I am happy to address your questions.



1) Applications for the 2013 experimental recreational halibut fishery are not being accepted yet, but we do plan to have the 2013 application and information online by next week, so that the fishery can be opened on April 1.

2) You may have already seen the 2012 information online here: http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/commercial/ground-fond/halibut-fletan/index-eng.htm. The “Presentation: Halibut Experimental Recreational Fishery – Program Details” link is especially useful for understanding the operational details of the fishery and how to get started with an application. Over the next week, this information will be updated to include any new or changed conditions for the 2013 fishery.

3) Please do not send in an expression of interest for the 2013 fishery until you see that the new 2013 information is online next week. As soon as you see that the link is updated to 2013, I will be accepting expressions of interest. Once you send in your expression of interest I will call you to discuss in more detail the operational requirements of the fishery.

4) Although we will discuss the details more if you send in an expression of interest, I will add a few more details with regards to your other questions here as well:

a. In 2011 and 2012 the minimum quota required to go fishing was 1lb, but for 2013 this is subject to change; the new minimum quota will be posted with the online information next week.

b. You are responsible for reporting all of your halibut catch throughout the season while using an experimental licence; this allows us to track how much quota you have remaining on your licence or how much you will need to lease to cover your catch. You must ensure that you have leased enough quota to cover off your catch by January 31, 2014.

c. As I said above, the regulations for 2013 will be available online in the coming week.



Thank you very much for your inquiry. I hope that I’ve been able to answer your questions, but don’t hesitate to call or email if you require further clarification.



Regards,

Chantelle



Chantelle Caron
A/ Halibut and Sablefish Coordinator
Fisheries and Aquaculture Management | Direction des pêches et de l'aquaculture
Fisheries and Oceans Canada | Pêches et Océans Canada
Vancouver, Canada V6C 3S4

chantelle.caron@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Telephone | Téléphone 604-666-0912
Facsimile | Télécopieur 604-666-8525
Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada











From: XXX
Sent: March 11, 2013 11:52 AM
To: XPAC Pacific Fishery Licensing Unit
Subject: Re: RE: re: Re: re: recreational halibut quota



Dear Guinevere;

MY original E-mail;

DFO;

How and where do I apply for a leased recreational quota?

What is considered a minimum amount and do I square the quota at the end of the year?

Where do I find the posted final regulations that pertain to the 2013 season?

Cheers

XXX


What I want is all the info as to sport quota licences for halibut in areas 10,11,12,27.

Q. Where do I find expression of interest details for 2013?
Q. how much is quota per pound?
Q. minimum quota?
Q. explain conciliation process for 2013/14? Same as 2012?
Q. what are the proceedures for records and hailing in for 2013/14?

XXX


Mar 11, 2013 11:26:15 AM, PFLU@dfo-mpo.gc.ca wrote:

Hello Mr. XXX

Thank you for your inquiry. If I understand your request correctly you are looking for a Tidal Water Sport Fishing Licence for the 2013/2014 fishing season. These licence will be available to purchase on line at the website mentioned in the previous emails, the third week of March and will be valid from April 1, 2013 – March 31, 2014. If you would like more information regarding Halibut Recreational fishing I will forward your email to our Groundfish department. You can call us directly at 604.666.0566 or email us if you have further questions.

Sincerely,

Guinevere (Guin) Pauls

______________________
Guinevere Pauls
A/Licence Officer
Fisheries and Oceans Canada | Pêches et Océans Canada
Pacific Fishery Licence Unit
200-401 Burrard Street, Vancouver, BC V6C 3S4
Telephone | Téléphone: (604) 666-0566
Facsimile | Télécopieur: (604) 666-5855
Email | Courriel: Guinevere.Pauls@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

þThanks for thinking about the environment before printing this email.

From: XXX
Sent: March 11, 2013 10:54 AM
To: XPAC Pacific Fishery Licensing Unit
Subject: Fwd: re: Re: re: recreational halibut quota




Mar 11, 2013 10:18:49 AM, dfo-mpo@servicecanada.gc.ca wrote:

Dear Mr.XXX

Thank you for your email dated 08 March 2013, requesting information on recreational Halibut licenses and regulations in the Pacific Region.

Please rest assured that we understood explicitly the nature of your request. Unfortunately, since our General Enquiries service here in Ottawa, Ontario only offers basic information on the programs and services of Fisheries and Oceans Canada / Canadian Coast Guard, we cannot provide the information you requested.

We have, however, forwarded you the contacts for your regional offices, who actually manage the recreational fisheries in the Pacific Region.

Please contact their regional office directly for any further information.

Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.

Sincerely,

General inquiries / Renseignements généraux
613-993-0999
facsimile / télécopieur: 613-990-1866
TTY/ATS: 613-941-6517
info@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

Fisheries and Oceans Canada | 200 Kent Street Station 13228 Ottawa ON K1A 0E6
Pêches et Océans Canada | 200 rue Kent Station 13228 Ottawa (Ontario) K1A 0E6
Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada

From: XXX
Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 3:53 PM
To: NCR, DFO MPO
Subject: Re: re: recreational halibut quota


DFO;

Thank you for your response.
Nothing in the links you forwarded pertains to licences for the year 2013/14.
Perhaps you misunderstood and assumed that I was looking for a licence for the last 15 days of March 2012.

XXX

Mar 8, 2013 12:01:36 PM, dfo-mpo@servicecanada.gc.ca wrote:

Dear Mr.XXX

Thank you for your email dated 08 March 2013, requesting information on recreational Halibut fishing seasons and regulations in the Pacific Region.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada’s Recreational Fishing - Pacific Region program provides information on recreational fishing quotas, regulations, seasons and area openings and closures, including closures due to red tides and paralytic shellfish poisoning in British Columbia and the Yukon.

The program allows clients to apply on-line for tidal water sport fishing licenses in British Columbia.

In addition, the program administers tidal waters sport fishing licenses and salmon conservation stamps for a network of vendors, who sell them to the public.

The program also provides information on Rockfish Conservation Areas.

The program issues freshwater sport fishing licenses for the Yukon.

Please contact your regional office for additional information.

Recreational Fishing - Pacific Region
Douglas Jung Building, Suite 200
401 Burrard Street
Vancouver, BC V6C 3S4

8 a.m. - 4 p.m. Call ahead

Tel.: 604-666-0566 (Vancouver) 8 a.m. - 4 p.m. Mon., Tue., Thu., Fri. Closed 12 p.m. - 1 p.m. Information on recreational licensing only
8:30 a.m. - 4:30 p.m. Wednesday Closed 12 p.m. - 1 p.m.
Tel.: 604-666-2828 (Vancouver) 24/7 Recorded Information Information on openings and closures
Fax: 604-666-1847 (Vancouver)

Email: opscentre@pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca Information on recreational fishing

Email: pflu@pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca Information on recreational licensing only

Information on Recreational Fishing - Pacific Region is available at the following URL:
www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/index-eng.htm

Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require additional information.

Sincerely,



General inquiries / Renseignements généraux
613-993-0999
facsimile / télécopieur: 613-990-1866
TTY/ATS: 613-941-6517
info@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

Fisheries and Oceans Canada | 200 Kent Street Station 13228 Ottawa ON K1A 0E6
Pêches et Océans Canada | 200 rue Kent Station 13228 Ottawa (Ontario) K1A 0E6
Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada



From: XXX
Sent: March 8, 2013 12:37 PM
To: XNCR, Info
Subject: recreational halibut quota



DFO;

How and where do I apply for a leased recreational quota?

What is considered a minimum amount and do I square the quota at the end of the year?

Where do I find the posted final regulations that pertain to the 2013 season?

Cheers

XXX

[Wild one]

Yep that is defiantly DFO :wink:

[Whonnock Boy]

Care to elaborate on your last post above that I quoted?


Yep that is defiantly DFO :wink:

[40incher]

Hey Whonnock Boy,

I guess it's pretty clear you are a lodge guy. Trying to spin around words to protect your "free" and unfettered commercial access to a publicly-owned resource. Why don't you just pay for some quota and quit living off of the gravy train DFO has created. That would obviously be a rhetorical question. The answer would predictably be "NO" because you don't have to! Yet!!

To be clear, unassisted anglers are B.C. and/or Canadian residents who fish with or without their own boats. The key is that they do not pay for any services rendered. That is where DFO has failed because they have allowed a commercial industry to expand exponentially (all you need is a Coast Guard certified boat at this point) without any hope to enforce even the most obvious infraction unless you can physically catch the assisted client paying the uncertifed boat owner for his guiding services (good luck). In a way the lodges are their own worst enemy because, in their zeal to remain unrestricted, they have allowed many new players into the game. I think you know what I mean!

Allowing the almighty $$$ to control a common-property resource is wrong any way it is spun. Unassisted Canadian anglers (that would be the real ones) should have priority in any marine fishery (halibut, chinook, ling cod, rockfish, .... !). Don't you think??? Perhaps you might want to reconsider you original response?!

We all look forward to your considered and ingenuous reply.

[Mr. Dean]

Whonnock Boy IS NOT a lodge owner or a guide - He's merely a father w/ a son that likes to fish hali's.
And being the youngish family man that he is, he doesn't own a vessel that'll access the grounds.

He is the classic example of why we need to be careful of pointing fingers that share in the Rec portion of the TAC.


Hali fishing should ABSOLUTELY NOT be favoured toward us guys that are lucky enough to own ocean-going vessels.
We MUST be inclusive of all rec fisher's, no matter how they choose to access the stocks. After all, we got people here spending their vacations in this country, in our province, passing their hard earned $$$ BACK INTO our ecomomies.

And the only way I see it working is to force the aliens (non Canadian Residence's) to buy quota in order to to go fishing in our waters - AKA; tax the shit out of them.... They will still come.

[Whonnock Boy]

Hey Whonnock Boy,

I guess it's pretty clear you are a lodge guy. Trying to spin around words to protect your "free" and unfettered commercial access to a publicly-owned resource. Why don't you just pay for some quota and quit living off of the gravy train DFO has created. That would obviously be a rhetorical question. The answer would predictably be "NO" because you don't have to! Yet!!

To be clear, unassisted anglers are B.C. and/or Canadian residents who fish with or without their own boats. The key is that they do not pay for any services rendered. That is where DFO has failed because they have allowed a commercial industry to expand exponentially (all you need is a Coast Guard certified boat at this point) without any hope to enforce even the most obvious infraction unless you can physically catch the assisted client paying the uncertifed boat owner for his guiding services (good luck). In a way the lodges are their own worst enemy because, in their zeal to remain unrestricted, they have allowed many new players into the game. I think you know what I mean!

Allowing the almighty $$$ to control a common-property resource is wrong any way it is spun. Unassisted Canadian anglers (that would be the real ones) should have priority in any marine fishery (halibut, chinook, ling cod, rockfish, .... !). Don't you think??? Perhaps you might want to reconsider you original response?!

We all look forward to your considered and ingenuous reply.

No, I am not a "lodge guy", but I did at one time run my own charter service. My boat is currently on the selling block, and in the future I would like to have access to halibut just like anyone else. Whether it is through old acquaintances, or a charter, or lodge of my choosing, I would like access just like yourself. No way, no how should I have to pay for quota. Do I think the same for foreigners? No.

Now you are saying real Canadian fisherman should have priority over what, fake ones? What are the guidelines of a "real" fisherman versus a "fake" one? Just because someone utilizes a charter or lodge service does not make them less of a fisher person. If you think about it, they're the smart ones. They don't have to pay for the boat, fuel the boats, ready the bait, service the boat or trailer, tie the gear, spool the reels, etc, etc, and in the end it works out cheaper. LOL!

Again, no way should I have to pay for quota. Period! And if the lodges are fighting for it to remain that way, all the power to them.

That is all the ingenuous I have for tonight....

[Whonnock Boy]

he doesn't own a vessel that'll access the grounds.


Well yeah, I do. :-D But, it's gotta go. :(

The rest is bang on Mr. Dean.

[Mr. Dean]

[QUOTE=Mr. Dean;1301543]
And being the youngish family man that he is, he doesn't own a vessel that'll access the grounds.

/QUOTE]
Well yeah, I do. :-D But, it's gotta go. :(

The rest is bang on Mr. Dean.

My bad.
I thought it was gone.

[Whonnock Boy]

Soon, very soon.... Then I'll be a "fake" fisherman. :wink:

[Weatherby Fan]

Soon, very soon.... Then I'll be a "fake" fisherman. :wink:

No worries Whonnoch Boy Ill take you up to the lodge I go to and you can see 1st hand how those commercial sports fisherman abuse the BC Halibut stocks :wink:

[Jack Russell]

guided anglers should be PURCHASING quota from the lodges, that PURCHASE quota from the government.

unguided RESIDENT anglers should have priority after conservation and aboriginal sustenance harvest and be given an equitable harvest with regulations that are practical.

The lodges sold flatties hand over fist in the 1990's when the salmon crisis began as a way to fill beds and appeal to the marketplace which expected fish filled coolers to justify the expense of the lodge experience, even if the trip was a corporate paid trip. The lodges, to their credit did a great job of this - the halibut themselves, due to their size and table fare did the rest.

Shame on our government for not considering the resident angler and protecting public resources, and to the lodges if they are politicking with 'economic stats' to take the lions share of the public allocation from the resident angler.

[Caribou_lou]

Spin words any way you would like Mr.Dean and Whonnabe Boy. Recreational fishery should have priority.

[Piperdown]

Bang on :shock: you are not that young anymore :) To bad you are selling your ride Troy, you can always hop aboard the Heavy Hauler, be forwarned a body search for a GPS is part of the deal, I'll just have to find someone to perform the search!

Well yeah, I do. :-D But, it's gotta go. :(

The rest is bang on Mr. Dean.

[Mr. Dean]

Spin words any way you would like Mr.Dean and Whonnabe Boy. Recreational fishery should have priority.

How do you get "spun" out of a truthful statement?


If this goes the way of what some are hoping for, it WILL be the lodge operations that control the fishery.
After all, it will be them holding the tickets for the trophies AND a reasonable limit.

Once again, folks, PLEASE support the BCWF with a $$$ donation toward the Malcolm Case - We shouldn't have to fight among ourselves to go catch a damned fish!

Do you think for a second if the Natives were told they couldn't fish, they would roll over like this???

[lorneparker1]

Do you think for a second if the Natives were told they couldn't fish, they would roll over like this???

Agreed, so its pretty sad when the group representing us (SFAB) did. Not all but enough to make it happen

[dryflyguy57]

How do you get "spun" out of a truthful statement?


If this goes the way of what some are hoping for, it WILL be the lodge operations that control the fishery.
After all, it will be them holding the tickets for the trophies AND a reasonable limit.

Once again, folks, PLEASE support the BCWF with a $$$ donation toward the Malcolm Case - We shouldn't have to fight among ourselves to go catch a damned fish!

Do you think for a second if the Natives were told they couldn't fish, they would roll over like this???
Natives own a substantial amount of quota now and are buying more with a government sponsored buyback . They will be fishing and thats who you will be fighting by donating to the BCWF . You just haven't figured out who your enemy is .

[longfin]

i do not understand this whole scenario... canadian taxpayers money bought the natives their halibut quota(and are still buying it through PICVI) plus get food quota given to them but our govt cant buy it back from quota holders to re-allocate to the sports sector? we have to spend money on a court cases to get it back. hmmmm. we need new politicians perhaps.

[Mr. Dean]

Natives own a substantial amount of quota now and are buying more with a government sponsored buyback . They will be fishing and thats who you will be fighting by donating to the BCWF . You just haven't figured out who your enemy is .



Please elaborate - I'm all ears.

[dryflyguy57]

Mr. Dean you can read my post on page 8 , IMHO the problem is with the commercial sport operations .

[lorneparker1]

Area 14 SFAC is tomorrow 6pm at the Courtenay F and G. If you have something to say, get out from behind your keyboard and say it.

Nanaimo Area SFAC is March 25th at thier F and G. Be there and tell them how you feel.

[lorneparker1]

anyone going? or just a bunch of keyboard heros like usual? lol

Lorne

[40incher]

Area 14 SFAC is tomorrow 6pm at the Courtenay F and G. If you have something to say, get out from behind your keyboard and say it.

Nanaimo Area SFAC is March 25th at thier F and G. Be there and tell them how you feel.


Good idea. It's time local anglers in all regions that have SFAC meetings start to hold their representatives accountable.

The "fake" anglers will be making their B.S. statement no doubt about how assisted Canadian anglers shoul be able to rob us from our season and our annual harvest. The preferred "lodge" season does not benefit anglers who want to take a halibut when it suits them.

It's time to take a stand.

[Whonnock Boy]

It's unfortunate that you have taken this stance 4incher, and others as well. We could be in this fight together, instead you choose to be greedy, yes greedy. 6 halibut is not enough for you, 5 months of halibut fishing is not enough for you, and 60 pounders are not big enough for you. Instead of being pissed off at the government, you are taking it out on those who are fighting with/for you. Throwing your fellow fishermen under the bus is quite sad really.

[40incher]

It's unfortunate that you have taken this stance 4incher, and others as well. We could be in this fight together, instead you choose to be greedy, yes greedy. 6 halibut is not enough for you, 5 months of halibut fishing is not enough for you, and 60 pounders are not big enough for you. Instead of being pissed off at the government, you are taking it out on those who are fighting with/for you. Throwing your fellow fishermen under the bus is quite sad really.

Good for you. I would expect no less.

The only ones being thrown under the bus are the ones not responsible for killing the vast majority of the quota for the "recreational sector". What a crock!

When we went from 11 months to 5 months I guess we should be thanking you and your buds!

When we went from no limit to 6 per year I guess we should thank you and your buds again!

Perhaps you should tell us where the benefit lies? Especially when the lodges/guides/unassisted anglers (LGUA'S) can kill halibut at will in 2013. What will you have to say when the LGUA's kill over a million pounds themselves in 2013? Or when they kill the whole quota? Not much I would imagine. But I'm sure you will come up with some B.S.

The fact is that unassisted Canadian anglers, who own the resource until it is caught, are getting screwed by you and your buds!

Good luck.

[Whonnock Boy]

will you have to say when the LGUA's kill over a million pounds themselves in 2013?

The fact is that unassisted Canadian anglers, who own the resource



I'll refer back to what has been previously said, a good percentage of those fish caught by the LGAA's was by Canadians clients. It is quite comical that you believe that if you own a boat, you own the resource.

I guess it's time to speak with my local MP Randy Kamp. It's been a while since we've touched base... Cheers.

[dryflyguy57]

It's unfortunate that you have taken this stance 4incher, and others as well. We could be in this fight together, instead you choose to be greedy, yes greedy. 6 halibut is not enough for you, 5 months of halibut fishing is not enough for you, and 60 pounders are not big enough for you. Instead of being pissed off at the government, you are taking it out on those who are fighting with/for you. Throwing your fellow fishermen under the bus is quite sad really.
Thats right , lets stand beside our American , German , Bob Wright , etc. brothers of the hook , and fight for our sport quota and unite together as recreational fishers . What a spin ! I know I am getting bent over forever , how about the rest of you ?

[Whonnock Boy]

Thats right , lets stand beside our American , German , Bob Wright , etc. brothers of the hook , and fight for our sport quota and unite together as recreational fishers . What a spin ! I know I am getting bent over forever , how about the rest of you ?

I admitted earlier that I do not believe it should be the same for foreigners. They are the ones who should be buying quota. As Blindguy stated, 90 percent of his clientele is Canadian, and LP acknowledged that he believes a high percentage of all sport fishery clientele is Canadian as well. Talk about spin. You better get over to the trough that 4incher is at, he'll leave you hungry faster than you can say halib.......

[Mr. Dean]

In my eye's, AT BEST, this should be a Resident/Non Resident issue.

I know a fair many Canuck that RELY on a hired hand to take them out and CAN NOT see ANY logic in stripping them their right to go fish with the same privileges as I. It makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE and I'm beginning to question if there are other motives behind these calls (???)

It's something a grade 3 student would understand.... Any decision would HAVE to be fair for all Canadians.

[dryflyguy57]

So under this proposal could the lodges not fish under the recreational quota , which they have been doing and put any fish over 60 lbs on their IVQ poundage until the season closes . This fish could be leased or bought by the lodges which is what DFO wants anyhow . After the recreational quota is caught and we are shut down the lodges could still fish IVQ fish of any size as long as they have quota left . The price to catch a halibut for the client will increase to a per pound price on top the trip price or will be absorbed by the lodge I would guess . I think we the true recreational fishers are being bent over by the commercial sport lodges and the SFAB on this one . Some on this board are starting to see that Bob Wright and cronies are not our friends . Oh yeah , how does one weigh a thrashing 61 lb fish in the water, gaff first then measure or weigh ? There has to be a recognition that the lodges and guides are a commercial operation as their catch is going to increase as it has done . For every lb. caught commercial sport operations should have quota to address it , no gifting , no piggybacking off the recreational quota . That would give the true recreational fisher a 70 % increase in the TAC and a chance to lengthen the season and manage it properly . I do think that the lease price for halibut is going to go up fast as is the price to buy commercial halibut quota . maybe the lodges won't buy in but i think the floodgates are opening today . Time will tell but it is a cluster brought about by DFO again .

[IronNoggin]

It's unfortunate that you have taken this stance 4incher, and others as well. We could be in this fight together, instead you choose to be greedy, yes greedy. 6 halibut is not enough for you, 5 months of halibut fishing is not enough for you, and 60 pounders are not big enough for you. Instead of being pissed off at the government, you are taking it out on those who are fighting with/for you. Throwing your fellow fishermen under the bus is quite sad really.

BINGO!

I've been staying out of this "discussion" for rather obvious reasons, but now find that I have HAD IT with the bullshit a handful of shills are tossing out here!


... It makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE and I'm beginning to question if there are other motives behind these calls (???)

There are obvious motives Mr. Dean. Chief amongst them is the overt vitriol spew intentionally designed to drive wedges amongst the Recreational Sector, and to lay blame for this depressing situation we find ourselves in at the feet of those who volunteer countless hours fighting on our behalf, rather than where that blame rightfully and properly lays. The corrupt and majorly dysfunctional DFO is where this problem initiated, and in their misguided frenzy to hold onto an allocation model that has proven a dismal failure, continues to drive the situation into ever worsening depths.

This smacks loudly of collusion with the Commercial Industry, for it is them, and them alone who realizes any gain whatsoever from such divisive tactics. Shame on those buying into this BS, and a much larger Shame for those who continue to direct these ignorant attacks!

The semantics of the matter have been gone over here and elsewhere ad naseatum. Regardless of how you might perceive it, the Recreational Sector is comprised of ALL those who take to the water with a rod 'n reel. The Commercial Sector is comprised of those who use long-lines (in this instance). Those that ride with guides are NO different in this aspect than those who run their own boats.

That is it in a nutshell.

No one, and chief amongst these are the guides, is at all "happy" with the latest developments in our halibut fishery. It VERY MUCH SUCKS! But the Cause of the problem is not your Fellow Fishermen by ANY means! It is DFO. Period. Endo!

For those who will now flame away in my direction, I suggest you take a good long hard look at your reasons for doing so! We are all in the same boat! About time we stopped trying to cut the damn boat into increasingly smaller pieces, for doing so will eventually and surely ensure none of us remains afloat.

Ticked!
Nog

[EGLPNT]

No worries Whonnoch Boy Ill take you up to the lodge I go to and you can see 1st hand how those commercial sports fisherman abuse the BC Halibut stocks :wink:

Thats a bold statement. What lodge and what abuses witnessed? I'll go if Whonnock Boy turns you down.

[Mr. Dean]

Bingo!
There are obvious motives Mr. Dean. Chief amongst them is the overt vitriol spew intentionally designed to drive wedges amongst the Recreational Sector

Bingo!!
This smacks loudly of collusion with the Commercial Industry, for it is them, and them alone who realizes any gain whatsoever from such divisive tactics. Shame on those buying into this BS, and a much larger Shame for those who continue to direct these ignorant attacks!

And BINGO!!!
The semantics of the matter have been gone over here and elsewhere ad naseatum. Regardless of how you might perceive it, the Recreational Sector is comprised of ALL those who take to the water with a rod 'n reel. The Commercial Sector is comprised of those who use long-lines (in this instance). Those that ride with guides are NO different in this aspect than those who run their own boats.


The people that can't see the clarity of these points, I question their drinking styles or what's contaminating their wells.

[dryflyguy57]

Bingo!

Bingo!!

And BINGO!!!


The people that can't see the clarity of these points, I question their drinking styles or what's contaminating their wells.
Great post , something a grade 3 student would understand , save the insults till i get back , I'm off to harass a steelhead for the weekend .

[lorneparker1]

Here is something i would like you to consider when making the argument. I am not anti guide by any stretch. I am anti Big business when it comes to our resources though, especially when joe canadian gets burned (which is what s happeneding right now)

2 groups of "slipper skippers" are taking all the fish and the canadian public is getting the short end. One are commercial fisherman, and the other are Big lodges. For MR Dean and Whonnock and anyone else that thinks its ok for big lodges that take 70% of the qouta to piggie back on rec quota and make money hand over fist while not paying a single cent, let me ask you this. Why and how are they any different the hunting guides?

Guides and outfitters pay big $$$ in BC purchase a territory. They are given a territory and an allocation. SEPERATE from residents. The MOE sets the allowable harvest for any specific species then allocates it to FN, G/O's and resident hunters. Why should halibut be any different?

Can you imagine if our hunting was run the same as halibut is ran right now. The government says you can harvest 100 stone sheep, 50 go to FN the other 50 go to residents and guides and outfitters. When those 50 are killed that is all you can kill. How much opportunity do you think residents would have at those Sheep? the answer is barely any IF any at all.. THe outfitters being paid $$$$ would make sure of that. They live there and would have every single legal sheep pinned down to a tee ( same as the hali guides that have every single hali spot pinned down to a tee)

[Mr. Dean]

Great post , something a grade 3 student would understand , save the insults till i get back , I'm off to harass a steelhead for the weekend .


Not meaning to be insulting.
More of a comment about how amazed I am of the people that are willing to 'cull' fellow fishers'.

There is NO logic in this and I can't understand *why* some guys don't understand that.
The arguments made thus far are seemingly either emotion based, or politically motovated.

[Mr. Dean]

Why and how are they any different the hunting guides?

Good Q.

As a Resident, if I were to elect using an outfitter I could hunt on my own tag and not have to pay for the associated costs of an allocated tag.
All I would be paying for is his/her expertise, gear usage and accommodations (if any).

Very different though for foriegners....


And that is my point, fishing should be different for people from out of country.

[lorneparker1]

Good Q.

As a Resident, if I were to elect using an outfitter I could hunt on my own tag and not have to pay for the associated costs of an allocated tag.
All I would be paying for is his/her expertise, gear usage and accommodations (if any).

Very different though for foriegners....


And that is my point, fishing should be different for people from out of country.

How many outfitters do you know in BC that would let you hunt with them with your own tag and not pay the associated fees? Please direct me to a website of a Stone sheep outfitter that i dont have to pay 20,000 to and instead can maybe pay 10,000 because i have my own $60 tag. Im sure there are tons that are willing to give up a 20k booking to some non-res and book with you because you have your on OTC tag. Get real...

Also if you are out of province as you know ( not just out of country), you can't hunt your own tag with an outfitter.

The reason it is set up the way it is I believe for hunting is because people who do this for a living are going to put alot more pressure on the resource, take the VAST majority of the allocation and it would leave the resident high and dry. Most Guides and out fitters are out every day just pounding on them, most are very good at what they do. Imagine this were elk. You have X amount of elk between guides and outfitters and thier paying clients and for Resident hunters and you share the same allocation. How many elk would get shot by residents? How long do you think Residents would allow this to happen before they say enough is enough? Well you are currently watching this very scenario unfold before your eyes....

[lorneparker1]

GO's for hunting PAY to have that right to take people out and make money off of the resource. Why should fishing be any different? Maybe they come up with guide territories for fishing, maybe you can buy x amount of halibut tags for your business, maybe they have there own allocation. Maybe its a sliding scale depnding on the size of the outfit so the small guy doesnt get screwed. Who knows.... Those are all options. All i do know is the current regulation although NO one including lots of guides and out fitters are happy with, it really does nothing to restrict thier business ( other then the few that promote HUGe halibut as a part of thier marketing and even they can go and buy quota and still offer that) and everything to restrict the Rec angler so they can continue business as usual.

[40incher]

I'll refer back to what has been previously said, a good percentage of those fish caught by the LGAA's was by Canadians clients. It is quite comical that you believe that if you own a boat, you own the resource.

I guess it's time to speak with my local MP Randy Kamp. It's been a while since we've touched base... Cheers.


Hey Whonnock Boy,

First of all, thanks for correcting my new acronym (LGAA`s). That is now copywrited FYO.

Talk to Randy Kamp all you want. The LGAA`s have already jumped the cord. Hope you and Irinnoggin (read steelhead) can suck it up.

The LGAA`s will suck off the trough (as you boys put it) for as long as you can, and then you do whatever it takes to appease the clientelle.

So, now only those that can not afford to buy quota can keep as many halibut as they want. They can keep ten 60 to 300 pounders when we as the poor Canadian tax-paying commoners can keep none (that would be 0).

Good for you.

Hope your free trips are worth it!

Meanwhile, we`ll keep fighting the good fight for the other 30 million owners of the halibut resource.

Cheers Youself

[Mr. Dean]

Also if you are out of province as you know ( not just out of country), you can't hunt your own tag with an outfitter.


Hali's are are a national resource - BC doesn't own the Pacific Ocean.
And btw, I have found outfitters that will work like I described earlier - Have you tried?

But really, that industry is geared to those that don't hold privelige to it and really isn't a fair comparison. But you asked, I answered - Sorry you didn't like it.

In order to come to solutions one needs to understand the basics of the problems.... Thinking that you should have more entitlement over a fellow citizen is purely delusional, naive and/or greedy. But good luck in selling it and watch out if you do - Participation would be SO LOW, I doubt it would sustain itself.

But as long as you get to go fish, that's what matters. Right? :sad:

[40incher]

Hey Mr. Dean,

Do you know the #1 rule of holes?

When you are in one quit diggin'!!

You are in a big one.

The jig is up. The LGAA's are folding the cards and buying halibut like it was cheese.

[Mr. Dean]

Hey Mr. Dean,

Do you know the #1 rule of holes?

When you are in one quit diggin'!!

You are in a big one.

The jig is up. The LGAA's are folding the cards and buying halibut like it was cheese.

I agree, the hole is indeed deep.
But we all are in it.

There's 2 ways of getting out.

You can panic, and use the others around you as sacraficial lambs to fill it in and let yourself out.
Or you can carefully dig at the walls and raise the bottom, letting everyone out. :wink:

[Mr. Dean]

Telling a guy from Biggar, Saskatchewan, that he has to pay 'tax' ( and you don't) on a resource that he owns every much as you, is about as dumb as he telling you that you've already used up your portion of entitlement from all your past catches.

In other words, you now owe him fish so it's time for you to quit.

[field marshal]

Mr. Dean, Biggar residents are allowed to harvest B.C. mule deer, elk, and pheasants. I on the other hand am not allowed to harvest those same species in Saskatchewan. I guess we are not owners of this Canadian resource as much as Biggar residents are????---Cheers---Field Marshal.

[Mr. Dean]

Mr. Dean, Biggar residents are allowed to harvest B.C. mule deer, elk, and pheasants. I on the other hand am not allowed to harvest those same species in Saskatchewan. I guess we are not owners of this Canadian resource as much as Biggar residents are????---Cheers---Field Marshal.

2 different resources under 2 different bodies of government.
And that fact (along with the laws that oversee it) is what needs to be understood and accepted when one starts to conjure up solutions.

Federal Law states that this fishery is a common property of ALL residents of Canada.
Hence me stating earlier that Hunting and Fishing on the Pacific can't be compared to one another - The distance between them is light years apart.

[Mr. Dean]

The LGAA's are folding the cards and buying halibut like it was cheese.

Of course they are and frankly, I would be too if the shoe was on my foot: Silly not to.

But that's doesn't mean that I agree w/ DFO's decision - All I'm saying is that who would pass on the opportunity like the one presented?
To do so would be suicide for a profit at the end of season.


In a nut-shell, if you're against the decision and wanna do something proactive about making change, get your ducks in a row and learn the fundamentals around the issues, IF you want your voice heard. Or else it will fall on deaf ears; not out of disrespect but because law trumps all decision making.

And Just because DFO *thinks* it can interpret law with its own made-up dictionary, doesn't mean that there's a chance in hell that a small lobby group, will or can.

[IronNoggin]

Lorne Ol' Chap, I see you repeatedly stating that you are "not anti guide by any stretch", however in every occasion you do so the words that follow strongly indicate otherwise... :wink:

Your comparison between halibut fishing and sheep hunting is obviously an apples and oranges thing. However for the purposes of education (for those few who will bother to read it) let's run with it anyway shall we... We'll fill in the discrepancies in your description as we go along.

So, the various management bodies involved determine that BC's safe level of harvest is 100 rams. These agencies then begin the process of allocating those 100 tags.

First up is the First Nations. For the moment we will only consider Food, Social & Ceremonial Access which runs right around 9 or 10 %. Let's split the difference and call it 9.5% which translates to 9.5 sheep tags which come off the top before any further considerations.

90.5 sheep still on the block.

The next priority considered relates to an entity you completely forgot to include in your little assessment. That of course would be the "Buffalo Hunters" or Market Gunners if you prefer. A group that the government has placed second in line behind the First Nations in the the list of Priorities, and in their wisdom (or lack thereof) has given 85% of the remaining tags to... In Perpetuity.
Of the 77 tags this represents, nearly 20% (15.4 tags) of those are automatically assigned to First Nations Market Gunners, upping their realized tally to 25 tags overall. For it seems that although unwilling to even consider such options when it comes to the lowest priority on the ladder (it's coming...) they have NO Issue in directly purchasing tags from the Market Gunners to transfer over to the First Nations.
The remaining 61.6 tags rest Securely in the hands of non-FN Market Gunners.

13.5 sheep remain on the block.

Now for the lowest in the priority list as established by "management" - let's call them the "Real Hunters". Chiefly Residents btw...
And here is where we run into a bit of a crunch, because there are more than 13.5 Real Hunters out there who wish to hunt sheep that year. So management has two options to consider in dispersing these remaining tags - LEH or GOS with restrictions to allow for the greatest amount of participation. While a case can be made for either, the general consensus is that the Real Hunters prefer the latter method...

Of those Real Hunters who wish to pursue sheep that year, they are faced with two options to Git 'Er Done as sheep hunting is generally a fairly expensive proposition (somewhat akin to halibut fishing).
The options they now consider include engaging a Man who owns trucks, horses, equipment, has considerable time on the ground (which of course enhances the odds of success) and is willing to bust his butt to get the Real Hunter the ram of his dreams.
The other option is to personally invest in those same trucks, horses, equipment and to put in sufficient time on the ground to get an inkling of where those sheep may be.
One can argue that either option might just be a little insane, as purchasing the meat from a Market Gunner will generally prove to be a much less expensive way to go. Ah, but for some, it is so much more the experience than simply a steak, and so worth the related expenses...

In this scenario I have intentionally left out "designated areas", "committed access" and the related fees so as to bring the apple just a tad closer to the orange isle. The Real Hunters are left to their own to decide which route they wish to hunt with, and each have the same Right to pursue their tag as the other. Neither is afforded Priority over the other based on their chosen hunt method, and IMHO neither should be penalized based on that selection.

It should come as no surprise that somewhat greater than 50% will choose the guide & outfitter route. It is after all much less of a time commitment, and certainly less of an expense in the overall picture. It should also not come as much of a surprise that those who choose to hunt with the guide/outfitter realize somewhat enhanced odds of success. The fellow they hire is a professional, and they are in fact engaging his years of experience not only save them time and money, but to directly to increase their odds of finding the sheep they desire.

Following along? Let's now take it even one step further. The government now makes a decision wherein the Market Gunners can freely sell their tags - both amongst themselves, and to the Real Hunters with sufficient coin to do so. To some Market Gunners the thought of sipping fine brandy and smoking fat cigars at home (or abroad) rather than actually hunting their own tags is downright appealing. So, they establish a price based on the Maximum the market will bear (this IS after all so much more about Money to them than anything else). And thus if a Real Hunter has deep enough pockets, he can now buy yet another tag. Or two. Or all bloody 77 assigned to the Market Gunners should his pockets be as deep as the proverbial well...

One step further again...

Too many sheep are taken, or they suffer a die-off of some sort. The next season only 80 tags are available.
The breakdown now becomes First Nations FSC: 8 tags; Market Gunners 61 tags; Real Hunters 11 tags.

Ahhhh... But if you don't want to "play by the rules" and have the coin, you - as a Real Hunter - can once again buy your tags from a Market Gunner. The government says so, and some are willing...

Starting to get the drift yet?

What you are suggesting is that the Man who takes Real Hunters under his wing should now be forced to purchase tags from the Market Gunners in order to do so. He is already charging what he must to get beyond break-even, but if forced into your suggestion, will obviously have to charge much more to any Real Hunter that elects to use his services.
This model now begins to discriminate based solely upon chosen hunt method, placing an unfair advantage on those with sufficient coin to either outfit themselves, or buy into the corrupt government/Market Gunner collusion of selling tag allocations.

It's a bit of a simplification I realize, but MUCH MORE akin to what is happening in the halibut fishery than the same scenario as you attempted to present it Lorne.

So now I suggest you ask yourself is your drive to "equal" the playing field between those who can afford the time & related equipment and those who choose the guide as the less expensive way to go? Do you actually wish to drive those who simply cannot afford the former away from any possibility of doing so? Are you suggesting they somehow have less "rights" to access based on their chosen hunt method?

And if that is all so, just how much are YOU willing to cough up to hunt halibut the next time you set foot on my boat??

Wondering...
Nog

[IronNoggin]

The jig is up. The LGAA's are folding the cards and buying halibut like it was cheese.

Nope. Actually NOT Happening! The Vast Majority are holding to their principles.

However I must commend you! Spoken as a true Apologist, or Shill as the case may be. :wink:

Methinks you've either carried your angst with outfitters into uncharted waters, or perhaps have a family member or friend in the Commercial Industry?

Regardless... Cheers! :tongue:
Nog

[Caribou_lou]

Nope. Actually NOT Happening! The Vast Majority are holding to their principles.

However I must commend you! Spoken as a true Apologist, or Shill as the case may be. :wink:

Methinks you've either carried your angst with outfitters into uncharted waters, or perhaps have a family member or friend in the Commercial Industry?

Regardless... Cheers! :tongue:
Nog


The Vast majority has yet to buy their Cheese yet Noggin. Or has yet to advertise it. Either way it's happening as some have called it.
Admitting your wrong is the first step but I highly doubt that will happen. You can join Mr. Dean in that hole!

[40incher]

No apologising here bud! Just fighting the good fight. To bad you can't say the same faker.

You can have "whine' with you store-bought cheese if you like.

Let's see who can kill the last halibut. Seems like that's the way it will end.