back paking newbs

[new hunter]

So I'm planning my first alpine back pack hunt for mulies or blacktail if I find one .
One thing I have finally learned from 5 years of hunting and a lifetime of reading up on hunting , is that I really have a lot to learn.
It feels ridiculous to ask , but I'm hoping to collect as many tips and pointers from those who've done it before , and as early as possible so that I can digest the info before hand.
I'll start with the gear that I already have , if anyone sees that I'm missing anything or is redundant , please let me know.
I have
60litre pack , msr multi fuel alpine stove , msr pots and pan ( kettle to ) ,msr sweet water filter , Dolimite -15 mummy bag , MEC 3 season 2man tent with ground sheet, trecking pole , ultra light sili tarp ( weighs under 1pound ) , therma rest , columbia early season gore tex hikers .

For the hunt I have 2 pairs mismatched camo , pants in real tree and military . Heavy weight m65 military jacket , remington camo hoodie and button up shirt , stanfield 2 piece base layer , I also have a light camo bela clava ( silk type ) and camo grease paints , though I've never used them in the field.
12x50 bushnel binos , 7x35 tasco field glasses , savage 30-06 with scope , assortment of knives from 3inch folder to buck 119 .
I also carry a basic survival kit with first aid kit , fire starter , survival bivy sack etc .

The plan is for me and a buddy to summit one of the mountains between Whistler and Bralorne in mid set to early oct .
I'm leaning towards the north creek area if we can find a route up to the tree line .
The plan is to hike up the first night , hunt the second day and descend on the third .

I am presently training at the gym ( have been working out for 5 years , but you'd never guess ) , doing my usual high weight low rep routine with cardio every third day .
Cardio has been 135+ floors on the stair master , leg machines ( weighted ) followed by a 15minute run ( usually a mile ) .
The guy I'm going with has a strong appreciation for the outdoors and is fairly fit , but is totally green to hunting , so I feel I need to be physically and mentally prepared if anything goes wrong .
I've always felt that if I invite someone with less experience into the bush , I am somewhat ( if not completely ) responsible for there safety .

If theres anythging I'm overlooking , dont or do need please let me know , as well as what may seem like common sense tips ( like were to camp or how to approach the hunting area.
Thanks everyone I look forward to everyones responses.

PS , I know this has been a popular topic in the past , but the old threads arent giving me all the info I need .

[jtred]

I find a small hatchet and folding saw pretty handy. I bought a Fiskars 14" camp hatchet and can't believe how sharp it came and has remained. Game bags, HD garbage bags(to keep blood out of your pack and off your other gear if you are successful), I find a GPS coupled with good topos and a compass pretty reassuring. Also if you have to do any creek crossings it's nice to have water shoes or sandals that secure tightly, I prefer sandals because they're nice to wear around camp to let the hikers air out. I've also been considering SPOT technology or something like it, I think my wife would find it reassuring. Another item I find really handy is a 10 litre collapsible water container I keep full in camp. If I think of anything else I'll post up again.

[bigredchev]

get good boots. new socks each day. good LED flashlight and spare batts. small length of rope, always handy.

[325]

Sounds like you have a good handle on things. As you replace items in the future, try and spend the $$ to get the lightest weight stuff you can. It's one thing to pack into the mountains with all your stuff...and quite another to pack out with your stuff and an animal.

[rcar]

Here is a pretty good thread…not sure if you found it inyour search:
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?31100-Alpine-Hunting-Gear-List/page2&highlight=gear+list (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?31100-Alpine-Hunting-Gear-List/page2&highlight=gear+list)

[broncoo]

put all your stuff inside dty sacks even if your pack is waterproof

next is take all your gear and food put it in the pack and go for a hike

i only take a pot frying pan and a large cup i use to eat and drink from this past august i did a 7 night hike in vallhalla prov park with only 55lbs of gear and food

[Krico]

Backpack hunting is a pretty wide open subject. Do a search on here and you will find detailed gear lists experienced guys have posted for sheep hunts. Gear needed will be the same, only difference is amount of food for number of days. Focus on the essentials to start with-good boots, pack,shelter and glass. Don't worry if you have trendy matching camo. In the high country it's more important to have quality rain gear and warm layers underneath than than to be in camo. You are more likely to get busted by your movement than your clothing.

[MacMtnHunter]

Go over and over all of your stuff. If you are going for a couple nights then just harden up and sleep on the ground, forget the tent, forget the ground sheet, forget the therma rest, set up your tarp tight in the trees and get huddled in there. Also, won't need pots AND pans, take a mountainhouse and a small metal can/cup to heat water up with. A jet boil is great because its a cup/stove/pot all in one and boils water faster than anything I have ever used.

Take only one set of camo and focus on the other things like a jacket and light heli hansen rain pants, extral light under layers and touque and mitts. All depends on when you are doing too...september 1st or November 1st...very different times of the year. Mind you I have been on the same spot on the mountain in early september two years back to back and had 30 degree weather and the next year it was around zero with heavy snow!

Also change your gym routine to more endurance exercises, you will need it climbing mountains. Its about stamina and going slow and being mentally tough. I know a few really jacked guys that would never be able to pack in or out of some of the places that I have been. Not bragging, just saying that mountain hunting is a mental game. Sometimes you wonder why you are really up there!

[brian]

My only recommendations is take all your gear out for a few over-nighters in summer before committing to it all in fall. This will give you a good idea of what you need and what you are missing. Get off the stair master as soon as you can and hike into the mountains, totally different muscle groups there. Bring your pack on your hikes (and add weight into is as you get stronger). This will make sure your pack fits you well, develop the weight bearing muscles, and build up your endurance. Adding squats into your workout regime and loosing the leg machines isn't a bad idea, just make sure you do them properly. Start with low easily doable weight and work up. Squats will make you work all the balancing muscles while developing your overall power, machines don't do this.

[E.V.B.H.]

It's also a good idea to take some orange flagging tape, or better yet take orange garbage bags instead of black to put some colour on your antlers and back if you are successful. This will also help in a worst case scenario if people have to search for you. As hunters we tend to not carry many bright clothing items with us.

[Fella]

Can't really speak to gear as I've never backpack hunted, but you definitely should be doing more cardio. Running a mile on a treadmill or on the street is easy. Do at least couple days of long distance running per week (at least 5 k) and a day or two of interval training such as sprinting 30 seconds, then jogging a minute then sprinting etc. for 30 minutes. I'd even fill your pack up with gear and start going for hikes or long walks around town.

[Ron.C]

Sounds like you have some decent gear to start with. And some great advice already especially using overnight trips to test gear ,work on pack weight, guage fitness etc.

Some of my comments would be

get rid of all cotton clothing, buy synthetics/wool. Lots of sources /options out there that will not break the bank and no, camo is not a must
pick up a set of gaiters. once again, lots of options out there that are not expensive
no need for a change of clothes except for socks/underwear. Dress in layers to control temp/sweat.
scrutinze every item in your pack. Split weight of common items like tent/stove/fuel with partner if you have one. Common mistake is to bring items you have no use for that quickly increase pack weight
learn some first aid if you don't already and know how to do it on yourself.
Get a SPOT or similar satellite messanger. Could be the best investment you'll ever make

[brian]

Don't worry if you have trendy matching camo. In the high country it's more important to have quality rain gear and warm layers underneath than than to be in camo. You are more likely to get busted by your movement than your clothing.

get rid of all cotton clothing, buy synthetics/wool. Lots of sources /options out there that will not break the bank and no, camo is not a must
pick up a set of gaiters. once again, lots of options out there that are not expensive

I would totally agree with these. Deer vision for detail sucks big time. Their vision is very motion sensitive. They will see you if you are moving with or without camo. Good gear can save your ass. You need layers that insulate you even when wet and rain gear that won't easily wet out on you, all of which is easily packable.

[604redneck]

ur bag and boots will make the biggest difference u can have 80 pounds in a really good bag that fits u properly and it will be easier to carry then a crappy bag with a 55lb load. 3 days isnt a long time should be able to pack fairly light, i would pack 5 days food though just in case u find a deer u wanna go after and decide to stay up there. Also i wear saxx underwear which is the greatest invention ever also gold bond is a good idea, i also only take 1 pair of binos but i take a spotting scope, tripod and range finder.

[BiG Boar]

I'd be seriously thinking about a spotting scope. You'll see a lot of animals in the mountains, but knowing which to pursue, as I'm sure you don't want to pack out or waste time on a dink buck, but knowing that you're looking at a biggun that is worth the 3 mile up hike will help you out a lot.

Training, meh, you'll be fine. It's three days and its not like you're fat.

Mountain hunting is incredible.

[new hunter]

Some very good tips so far , things I hadnt thought of .
I forgot to mention that I do have one of those green rubber rain suits ( its a pioneer ) , its a bit heavy but I always carry it in my bag.
Since I'm carry rain gear any way , would it make sense to leave the heavy field jacket behind .
I also have a carpenters hatchet that I made into a squaw sized tomohawk ( no offense to our FN members , thats just how I heard the design described ), its sharp as a knife , I'll bring it too.
I also bought a pair of gaters recently , but I figured I'd use them during the november rut , but I'll pack those as well .
Also have learned the wool lesson , my stanfields are merrino wool , I carry 3 pairs if cheap wool gloves when it gets cold , and I've been collecting wool socks ( just got some sweet hand knits from nepal , real comfy ).
I guess its pretty likely I'll still be running into snow above the tree line .
Would it be better to make camp in the tree line so youre out of sight and sheltered from weather , or get as close to the summit as I can before making camp.
Also , should I glass from below , or get as high as I can and try to descend on the deer ?
I noticed that after a snow fall all the deer tracks I found ( in the low country ) led to the tops of bluffs and cliffs , so I was thinking that for a late season low altitude hunt I would spend the day climbing up through a less populated area so I can descend onto the deer trails I know of .
Everytime I've caught a doe from above ( never saw a buck last year ) they seem confused as to what to do .
Would that be a practical strategy up high , or would you have to cover too much ground to make it practical ?
Thanks for the tips , if you guys can think of more , keep em coming , theyve been pretty helpful so far .

[lorneparker1]

Go over and over all of your stuff. If you are going for a couple nights then just harden up and sleep on the ground, forget the tent, forget the ground sheet, forget the therma rest, set up your tarp tight in the trees and get huddled in there. Also, won't need pots AND pans, take a mountainhouse and a small metal can/cup to heat water up with. A jet boil is great because its a cup/stove/pot all in one and boils water faster than anything I have ever used.

Take only one set of camo and focus on the other things like a jacket and light heli hansen rain pants, extral light under layers and touque and mitts. All depends on when you are doing too...september 1st or November 1st...very different times of the year. Mind you I have been on the same spot on the mountain in early september two years back to back and had 30 degree weather and the next year it was around zero with heavy snow!

Also change your gym routine to more endurance exercises, you will need it climbing mountains. Its about stamina and going slow and being mentally tough. I know a few really jacked guys that would never be able to pack in or out of some of the places that I have been. Not bragging, just saying that mountain hunting is a mental game. Sometimes you wonder why you are really up there!


So when you had that zero degrees and heavy snow, did you feel pretty "hard" with no sleep system just under a tarp?

Not bringing a sleep system and a decent shelter is about the worst advice you can give a new hunter in the alpine. Could even kill a person....

[BiG Boar]

I'd forget the tomahawk personally. What, are you finding your Christmas tree, or hunting? What good is a (relative heavy) hatchet on a hike in? Are you finding it hard to go down the path? Go over the log (or around (see appendix A). Are you skinning something with the axe? Use a knife, they work better. Are you cutting down trees to make a fire? Find fallen branches, live trees won't burn anyways, and cutting standing dead is fine for a week long hunt, but we're talking two days here.

You're trying to save as much weight as possible so you can hike farther, and camp where the game is. If you're bringing a hatchet, you may as well bring rocks to weight your fly down with.

Appendix A - To the side, or possibly under.

[BiG Boar]

So when you had that zero degrees and heavy snow, did you feel pretty "hard" with no sleep system just under a tarp?

Not bringing a sleep system and a decent shelter is about the worst advice you can give a new hunter in the alpine. Could even kill a person....


Language warning.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc

[kickemall]

Train with your pack on and weighted as much as possible, preferably on hills but at least on the treadmill. I'd question if your boots are adequate. Go as light as possible while still being safe, your going to have to pack meat out as well as your gear. Take a look at rokslide.com. All your questions have been answered there. Good luck.

Dave

[squamishhunter]

Get better boots. The worst part of your body to neglect on a hike is your feet. take care of them. Take a multitool (good for repairing stove and filter etc) and your skinning knife only. Take the large msr pot and its lid. If you flip the lid upside down, shazing! you have a frying pan/plate. Don't bring that gay pot lifter either, thats what your multitool is for.

Try out the grease pants before you go or don't take them. I take one set of clothing for a trip like that. fully synthetic long underwear, one pair of socks per day.

[new hunter]

My first thought was to leave the hawk at home , but when someone suggested a 14oz hatchet I figured my throwing hawk could come in handy .
When my wife and I would back pack I always brought a machete , they work great for clearing a camp sit and are passable for collecting firewood ( if you camp in the tree line ).
I figured the hawk could be used to drive tent pegs (or cut them ) could be used as a pelvic tool without trashing my knife ( I keep it scalpel sharp , that is not an embellishment I do wood carvings and am an amatuer cutler when I have time , my blades are freakin sharp ).
I also figured if I was succesful I might need to make a meat pole to keep my kill of the ground on the last night .
As I said earlier . I'll be hunting with a partner so I can distribute the weight evenly .
As too leaving the tent behind , youre a tougher man than me if you can do it around here .
If I had a bivy sack instead of a mummy bag I would be more inclined to leave the tent behind .
I was thinking of buying a dry sack for my sleeping bag , but using doubled up garbage bags seems like a better idea now .

[new hunter]

I was debating on getting some mid calf mountain boots , I take it ankle height hiking boots wont quite cut it . Do I need better boots for ankle support , or to keep snow out ? I have a pair of gaiters , if I combine those with my boots would that be enough ?
I hadnt thought of a multi tool , but that sounds like a great idea .
makes sense as a backup knife and for repairs .
I think I'll take big boars advice to loose the hatchet and will just look for a good multi tool with a decent saw on it .
If I need to drive pegs I'll find a rock or decent stick.

[lorneparker1]

Gaiters plus boots is enough for anything in sept oct in most cases. But invest in a good pair of boots. ankle support is huge, especaiily with a heavy load. Trekking poles are also recommended and will save your knees motoring down hill with a heavy pack THere are zillions of good boots out there so try on lots. I personally have lowa tibets, and i tried tons of boots, and found these the best for me.

Lorne

[longstonec]

I was debating on getting some mid calf mountain boots , I take it ankle height hiking boots wont quite cut it . Do I need better boots for ankle support , or to keep snow out ? I have a pair of gaiters , if I combine those with my boots would that be enough ?
I hadnt thought of a multi tool , but that sounds like a great idea .
makes sense as a backup knife and for repairs .
I think I'll take big boars advice to loose the hatchet and will just look for a good multi tool with a decent saw on it .
If I need to drive pegs I'll find a rock or decent stick.

Silkie GomBoy/pocketboy hand saws are light weight and kick the asses of all the fiskars or gerber hand saws. They sell them at home hardware in Fuction for about 40$. Lighter and more useful then a hatchet. Great for cuttin bone also.

[new hunter]

Thanks longstone , I'll think about that .
I like the Idea of a multi tool since it has pliers for a pot lid , and a spare knife blade , just in case .
As for boots , I definitely want to upgrade , but I'm buying a springer off foxton which is my top financial priority at the moment .
That said , I do realise that footgear is extremely important .
I think my boots will do , the only problem I've found was that my feet got a little wet in the snow ( not really though ) , I didnt have the greatest traction when trying to move silently over wet logs , and I got psyched out when the deer I was tracking last year went into the deep snow that I just wasnt prepared for .
I have yak traks to improve traction as well as a surefoot trecking pole ( I just dont like having to drop a pole for a shot , the extra second may have cost me my only shot last year ) , and I have some gaiters for the snow this time .
As for water proofing , there is always the grocery bag trick.
But , if I can find the extra cash for some real mountain boots , I have my Eye on some Red setters at italian sporting goods .

[GoatGuy]

Tarp - tent if the weather's gonna be bad
Leatherman
Couple garbage bags
Twine
Flashlight/headlamp
Sleeping Bag
Couple lighters/matches
Inner tube for fire starter
Couple mountain house
little pot or cup
Rain gear
Extra set socks
Toque
Gloves
Spot if you have one
First aid

Don't need camo, don't want cotton.

Would go in September, some places the deer have pushed down by October (some in sept for that matter as well).

[new hunter]

Thanks for the list goat guy , the inner tube for fire starter , do you mean to burn the inner tube , or use it as a container for tinder ?

[longstonec]

Thanks longstone , I'll think about that .
I like the Idea of a multi tool since it has pliers for a pot lid , and a spare knife blade , just in case .
As for boots , I definitely want to upgrade , but I'm buying a springer off foxton which is my top financial priority at the moment .
That said , I do realise that footgear is extremely important .
I think my boots will do , the only problem I've found was that my feet got a little wet in the snow ( not really though ) , I didnt have the greatest traction when trying to move silently over wet logs , and I got psyched out when the deer I was tracking last year went into the deep snow that I just wasnt prepared for .
I have yak traks to improve traction as well as a surefoot trecking pole ( I just dont like having to drop a pole for a shot , the extra second may have cost me my only shot last year ) , and I have some gaiters for the snow this time .
As for water proofing , there is always the grocery bag trick.
But , if I can find the extra cash for some real mountain boots , I have my Eye on some Red setters at italian sporting goods .

Always take leatherman. Where else are you going to find scissors on the side of a
mountain to cut your tag!

[E.V.B.H.]

Leave the rubber rain gear at home as well. Very heavy and not breathable. Waterproof breathable outerwear is very important. Getting sweaty and wet is at the least uncomfortable, if it gets cold and stormy it can be life threatening. The alpine is one of my favourite places to spend time, but it needs to be taken seriously and approached with the appropriate gear.

Even a short weekend trip can become a bad experience with something as simple as a twisted ankle. As for boots in my experience if they cost less than $200 they are probably not that good. Look for a boot with a waterproof membrane. Unfortunately good boots will more than likely be over $300.

Test your pack with the expected pack out weight to expose any flaws in your system, all your gear and at least 60-80 pounds on top of that. Water jugs strapped on are a good way to do this (and good training). If you do connect it will be a very satisfying hunt!

[GoatGuy]

Thanks for the list goat guy , the inner tube for fire starter , do you mean to burn the inner tube , or use it as a container for tinder ?

Yes, for fire starter. You can start it anywhere, in any conditions, and it burns for a long time.

[BCrams]

Inner tube for fire starter


Learn something new everyday!!

[squamishhunter]

I would go for a boot with a half shank or more for the type of hiking you are planning (alpine) Yes, its heavier, but it relieves foot strain.

[new hunter]

Ok , point taken on the boots .
I have a pair of medium weight waterproof pants from mec , I'll start saving for better boots and looking for a breathable rain jacket .
Its too bad , I was thinking I had extra gear to lend to my buddy , now its looking like I need better stuff for myself .
Now that I think of it , all my hikes into the alpine have pretty much ended at treeline elevation .
I guess with hunting thats just were the adventure begins , so it does make sense the gear would need to be a little better .

[Dre]

Everyone's list of goodies will be different, its a matter of preferance and past experience. The single most important thing is the boots, cut funds elsewhere if you have to. This is not everything, just what I would stress on: 1pair socks for everyday + 1extra, 2pair undies, 2 t-shirts, 2 long sleeve thermal shirts, 1 pair thermal uderwear,. I try to have a change of clothes for the climb up, quite light, even if it is cool out, and very breathable. After ascending 3000 feet, I change everything and hang it under cover to dry in camp. I'm usually soaked with sweat. Coming down doesn't matter, you go in your truck and put the heater on. I camp near alpine, but always in the trees, you will see deer right up to the cliffs that the goats are on, look for the green areas below the rocks, early morning and evening. During the rut bucks move around all day. Mountainhouse food is the best, its light and you only need one pot to boil water without making a mess. I find a machette much more usefull than a hatchet, up to 3" thick wood Cold Steel Kukri is king at about 1lb. I also highly recomend a Spott and ski-poles. Ski-poles are a life saver, but I only use them with the heavy pack. If you shoot something, bone out all the meat and split between the two of you. If alone or with my dog I always make 1st trip with only the meat/trophy, 2nd trip for my camp and any meat I could not take the first time.
Good luck.

[albravo2]

Some very good advice on here, especially Lorne's suggestion about walking sticks. I don't go into the woods without one. They will save your knees, especially on the downhill. I'm planning to carry two this year and bind them together as a bipod as necessary. Can always put one on the side of your pack if you don't like walking with two.

Lots of people have recommended a Spot. I have the Delorme Inreach and love it. Can send and receive detailed text messages. Excellent for peace of mind and if your situation becomes dangerous you can either get professional help or summon a bunch of your friends to the rescue.

Last, in keeping with the 'good boots' advice, I highly recommend Superfeet or similar insoles. Years ago I was doing a lot of alpine climbing with a moderately heavy pack and all the uphill walking really strained the soles of my feet. Plantar Fascitis is the medical term. It sucks and sucks for months. A good doctor recommended insoles and I've never looked back.

Good luck. It sounds like you have a level head and are thinking ahead. People like you rarely need rescue;-)

[new hunter]

Language warning.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc

Just watched the video.
You know what else will harden you the f@ck up ?
Riger mortis.

[BiG Boar]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by GoatGuy http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1288752#post1288752)
Inner tube for fire starter


Learn something new everyday!!

Inner tube works great. But even more multi purpose is 3-4 feet of duct tape rolled up. Works as a fire starter, and has about 8000 other uses, including covering your barel crown.

[BCrams]

Inner tube works great. But even more multi purpose is 3-4 feet of duct tape rolled up. Works as a fire starter, and has about 8000 other uses, including covering your barel crown.

Duct tape indeed is good and why I take ample amounts of it!! Its been my fire starter for nearly 20 years. Rolled onto my water bottle and hiking poles. That tape has come handy more than a few times in more ways than one!

[new hunter]

Ive got 2 rolls of glow in the dark duct tape that seemed like a good idea to buy when I saw it .
I'll bring a roll.
I figured it wouldnt hurt to add a little piece of glow in the darl to my pack si I can find it in the dark.
I was going to bring a few feet of rope as well , but I might bring para cord instead because I can carry a longer length of it and double it up if I need extra strength .
If I bring duct tape I guess I could skip the inner tube as a fire starter .

[Blair]

In that country I wouldn't bother with the water filter. Drink out of any steep stream. Best water in the world up there. I carry a few square feet of tar paper in my pack at all times for starting fires.

[new hunter]

I guess the thinking is that the closer you are to the source of melt water the less contaminates youre likely to find in the water ?
I figure youre most likely right , but I'll probably bring my filter anyway .
call it paranoia , but you cant be to careful with water .
Not to mention if you carry a filter you dont need to pack as much clean water on the way up.
I like having the ability to top up my reserves in any water source I find . I also have a tendency to exhaust my water supply long before I reach my destination .
You cant count on clean water in the high country if you get dehydrated in the low country .

[KodiakHntr]

I always laugh when I hear guys say stuff like "don't bother with a filter, it's fine", and flash back to a sheep trip where my hunting partner and I found water flowing straight out of a cliff about 3 meters above us. I mean, water that was so cold and clear it was unbelievable. And I still filtered it, and gave him a hard time about it until he did as well.

And as we were climbing up beside the cliff we looked over and could see where the water was being filtered though about 7 years of accumulated ptarmigan shit maybe 10 centimetres from where it was coming out of the rocks.

And realistically, all it takes to set your mind right is to spend some time around someone who has an active case of beaver fever. Especially memorable if you are in a truck, and driving, and that person is the passenger. Watch how frantic they get when you don't pull over when they start screaming about needing to get out.......(grin)

[brian]

There are some great books out there that will answer a lot of your questionsHunting High Country Mule Deer by Mike Eastman and Public Land Mulies by David Long. Pick up one or both (I find there is a lot of overlap between the two).

[GoatGuy]

I always laugh when I hear guys say stuff like "don't bother with a filter, it's fine", and flash back to a sheep trip where my hunting partner and I found water flowing straight out of a cliff about 3 meters above us. I mean, water that was so cold and clear it was unbelievable. And I still filtered it, and gave him a hard time about it until he did as well.

And as we were climbing up beside the cliff we looked over and could see where the water was being filtered though about 7 years of accumulated ptarmigan shit maybe 10 centimetres from where it was coming out of the rocks.

And realistically, all it takes to set your mind right is to spend some time around someone who has an active case of beaver fever. Especially memorable if you are in a truck, and driving, and that person is the passenger. Watch how frantic they get when you don't pull over when they start screaming about needing to get out.......(grin)

Never had a problem, knock on wood.

Always figured giardia takes a couple weeks to incubate, usually out of the woods - good excuse to use some sick days. hahah

[GoatGuy]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by GoatGuy http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1288752#post1288752)
Inner tube for fire starter



Inner tube works great. But even more multi purpose is 3-4 feet of duct tape rolled up. Works as a fire starter, and has about 8000 other uses, including covering your barel crown.

taping up the barrel crown - where men are men and sheep are nervous, eh.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Nothing works beter for a fire starter than your stove.
But I know we're all boy scouts at heart and like the challenge of starting a fire in the most primitive fashion that we can.
:-D
SSS

[GoatGuy]

Nothing works beter for a fire starter than your stove.
But I know we're all boy scouts at heart and like the challenge of starting a fire in the most primitive fashion that we can.
:-D
SSS

for two days I don't think I'd take a stove? Just use the fire for heating up water

[squamishhunter]

wrap as much ductape as you want around your trekking pole, saves the space of a whole role

[new hunter]

M wife , mother in law , and quite a few of the kids my wife grew up with all got giardia at one point or another , back when whistler didnt have a very good water system .
My dad even tells stories about his forestry super telling everyone to drink beer not water during an outbreak ( early 80s , before political correctness ).
To this day my wife still insists on boiling all her tap water .
I get chronic migraines as well , when I get a bad one I start puking , which dehydrates me , makes my migraine worse , which makes me puke more etc , until I go to the ER for a shot of morphine and maxaran.
The first time it happened I ended up overnighting in the squamish ER for a bleeding ulcer , after a gastronomy the next day I learned my lesson .
The migraines are not related to giardia , but if I ended up stranded in the bush shitting my guts out it would become a big problem , real fast.
So I will never gamble with drinking water .
As to the stove , If I pre scout a good camp are with plenty of firewood I'll leave it behind , If I end up camping blind I'd rather know that I have all my fuel in a gas bottle .

[NovemberBravo]

As to the stove , If I pre scout a good camp are with plenty of firewood I'll leave it behind , If I end up camping blind I'd rather know that I have all my fuel in a gas bottle .

A stove is always a good idea. It makes it's a lot easier and faster to boil water over a stove than a fire. Just make sure that your gas does not get to cold. Also if your in the alpine there won't be any wood.

[new hunter]

A stove is always a good idea. It makes it's a lot easier and faster to boil water over a stove than a fire. Just make sure that your gas does not get to cold. Also if your in the alpine there won't be any wood.

Didnt know that about keeping your gas warm , usually I hang my gas bottle on the outside of my bag , so that on the off chance it leaks it wont contaminate my food , etc .
Maybe my gas bottle is were I'll wrap my duct tape , so it serves as insulation , as well as protecting the bottle from punctures .
That , and my duct tape is glow in the dark , not a bad thing to have on a fuel bottle at night.

[E.V.B.H.]

I think he may have been referring to compressed gas style stoves not liquid fuel.

[NovemberBravo]

I think he may have been referring to compressed gas style stoves not liquid fuel.
Ya I was, should have clarified

[Stone Sheep Steve]

for two days I don't think I'd take a stove? Just use the fire for heating up water

You're right. For only 2 days I'd take MRE's. No stove/fuel/pot or fire req'd.

SSS

[blackbart]

PM me your email address and I will try to send you a list or two. These lists come from the experience gained on more than one trip....

BB

[new hunter]

I think he may have been referring to compressed gas style stoves not liquid fuel.

Got it , that actually makes a lot more sense .

[Dre]

My last 2 day trip in Nov. turned into a 3 day trip after I shot my buck. Ran out of dry clothes, had already used up the dry firewood, thinking i wouldn't need it, and when I got into camp after dark with over 100lbs on my back, 25lbs on my dog, I was really glad to have my stove. Heat up some Mountain House, some hot coffee and jump in the sleeping bag to hold that heat. Stove + pot+fuel=2lbs, not worth leaving behind, in my opinion.

[avadad]

Get a good fitting pair of backpacking boots (full-grain leather is the best in BC ), a well fitted backpack (internals are way more comfortable than frame packs but...) and a reasonable sleeping bag. Leave your key set and wallet in a safe place in your vehicle... Carry your ID's, license and your car key in your pack. Carry only as many shells as you need. Not sure you will need the "hawk" think about one of these instead. http://www.havalon.com/ Find some pillow cases and use those as game bags. Learn how to do the gutless technique. carry 2 pairs of surgical gloves. Plastic bags are a good idea because they can be used for so many things and are so light. Loose all of your cotton clothing. Get merino wool base layers and some wool blend socks. Comfy, warm, dry makes for an excellent back country experience . MSR has a nice pocket jet stove that will allow you to boil 600ml of water in less than 3 mins! Lot's of freeze dried options at outdoor stores and bulk food retailers. There are some nice options for instant coffee available as well. Wrap duct tape(fire starter) around your hiking stick and leave the full roll at home. A hydration system is a wise investment. Helly-Hansen makes a great set of lightweight raingear some will say they aren't breathable but they will keep you dry in a full day rain. gaiters. Cover your rifle barrel with a piece of tape. Load your pack and start doing some sustained climbs to get in shape. Don't put your cold body into a cold sleeping bag and expect to have a comfortable nights sleep. At the end of the day I'll take a quick sponge bath to take off the day's sweat and keep myself less detectable to wildlife. Then right before I jump in my bag I'll go for a walk uphill or do some exercise to get warmed up before I call it a night. Best of luck.

[new hunter]

Get a good fitting pair of backpacking boots (full-grain leather is the best in BC ), a well fitted backpack (internals are way more comfortable than frame packs but...) and a reasonable sleeping bag. Leave your key set and wallet in a safe place in your vehicle... Carry your ID's, license and your car key in your pack. Carry only as many shells as you need. Not sure you will need the "hawk" think about one of these instead. http://www.havalon.com/ Find some pillow cases and use those as game bags. Learn how to do the gutless technique. carry 2 pairs of surgical gloves. Plastic bags are a good idea because they can be used for so many things and are so light. Loose all of your cotton clothing. Get merino wool base layers and some wool blend socks. Comfy, warm, dry makes for an excellent back country experience . MSR has a nice pocket jet stove that will allow you to boil 600ml of water in less than 3 mins! Lot's of freeze dried options at outdoor stores and bulk food retailers. There are some nice options for instant coffee available as well. Wrap duct tape(fire starter) around your hiking stick and leave the full roll at home. A hydration system is a wise investment. Helly-Hansen makes a great set of lightweight raingear some will say they aren't breathable but they will keep you dry in a full day rain. gaiters. Cover your rifle barrel with a piece of tape. Load your pack and start doing some sustained climbs to get in shape. Don't put your cold body into a cold sleeping bag and expect to have a comfortable nights sleep. At the end of the day I'll take a quick sponge bath to take off the day's sweat and keep myself less detectable to wildlife. Then right before I jump in my bag I'll go for a walk uphill or do some exercise to get warmed up before I call it a night. Best of luck.

Got a msr pocket jet stove already . Gonna leave the hatchet and take a branch saw instead .Will pickup some old pillow cases at the second hand stoe , and I always carry a nice supply of garbage bags .
Ive got industrial rain gear , one set pioneer , one set mec pants and helly jacket .
I was thinking about the sponge bath Idea as well ( I like to use sent and sight camo. It may not make a difference to the deer , bot I find it helps with all the sentry animals like squirrels and birds . nothing like a squirrel alarm call to scare of deer ) , I'll either bring a pack towel or more likely wet wipes as someone else has already suggested .
Ive got a decent internal frame bag , boots are the next priority .
Saw some irish setters on cabelas for two bills , there the same model that I was looking at in van for three .
I was thinking of bringing a few body heating pads ( like the glove warmers made by hot paws ) to go in my sleeping bag , But I'll use youre advice to warm up before bed as well.
I dont like to use hydration systems when hiking because you either have to empty your pack to refill it , or you carry a lot more water weight trying to not top up , which makes you sweat more , thereby requiring you to top up any way.
That and I never like to carry liquids inside my bag , if they leak it would soak you gear.
I prefer to carry 2 bottles on the side pockets of my bag .
I'll start looking into MREs now .
Last time my wife and I used them without trying them first she woke up at 1am puking her guts out .
I had to get the fire going and take care of her til sun up , then break camp and pack both of our bags out 8km back to the road.
I was a valuable lesson in pre checking gear , but it also proved I could pickup any loose ends if I have to.
I'll check out mountain house first since everyone seems to like them .
Has anyone tried the coleman ones ? They dont seem as serious , but they have a few dessert options .
It wouldnt be bad to surprise my hunting partner with a bag of dessert and a flask of bourbon at the end of the day .
Its the little details that can make a trip more enjoyable .
Like a friend who served once said , they don't give out medals for suffering .

[E.V.B.H.]

My last 2 day trip in Nov. turned into a 3 day trip after I shot my buck. Ran out of dry clothes, had already used up the dry firewood, thinking i wouldn't need it, and when I got into camp after dark with over 100lbs on my back, 25lbs on my dog, I was really glad to have my stove. Heat up some Mountain House, some hot coffee and jump in the sleeping bag to hold that heat. Stove + pot+fuel=2lbs, not worth leaving behind, in my opinion.


This is an excellent example of why in the mountains, at any elevation, you need to expect the best but prepare for the worst! Throw in any of the other common problems, dehydration, hypothermia, sprains and strains and that three can turn into four or more.

Few more things, personally I NEVER take my keys or key into the bush. Hide it on your truck or nearby under a rock or tree or whatever, make sure your partner knows we're it is as well.

I always try my freeze dried food at home first, I know it's expensive, but I didn't before and could hardly eat it when I had to. Your partners favourite might be the one you can't swallow!

Check out the new msr water filter the hyperflow, IMO the best one on the market right now. It only weighs a couple ounces, pumps two litres a min, and fits in your cargo pocket or side pocket on your pack. The best thing about it though is the hook up options. The out flow will plug into standard pop bottle sized necks, it comes with a quick connect cap to replace the one on a camelback or water bottle lid. The best option is it also plugs into your drink tube on your camel back. Kneel down at the water source, pull of the bite valve plug in the filter and you can fill you bladder without taking your pack off! I tended to not use hydration systems for the same reasons, hard to fill had to unload your pack so you carry more water than you want to. This way you can just quickly pump in a fresh litre at every water source. I have had the msr micro filter for years but never carried it because it was to big, heavy, filtered slowly and you had to take your pack apart to get to your bladder.

for a bath carry a few baby wipes or other pre moistened wipes in a ziplock. Primos even makes them in a scent free version

[MacMtnHunter]

So when you had that zero degrees and heavy snow, did you feel pretty "hard" with no sleep system just under a tarp?

Not bringing a sleep system and a decent shelter is about the worst advice you can give a new hunter in the alpine. Could even kill a person....

Take it easy there lorne parker... Just cause people recommend it doesn't mean that you actually have to take their advice. I am just suggesting things that I have done in the past. Actually, in zero degrees with a good sleeping bag and a tarp, while huddled under the biggest spruce tree I could find I was totally warm and dry. A lot of the time it is a mental game. In september it can snow in the mountains. You have to be prepared for the worst or there is no reason you should be there. Just so you know I have also slept under the stars in my bag rolled up in a canvas tarp in nearly minus 30...also slept on horse blankets and rolled up in a top pack with no tent... you don't need to carry your rittzy, lite weight msr tent and "sleeping system" into the mountains for a three day expedition just to "stay alive"! Not saying that a nice lite weight tent is no good - just saying there are different options and if you really want to go light weight, then leave some of that $*!t behind.

[lorneparker1]

Got a msr pocket jet stove already . Gonna leave the hatchet and take a branch saw instead .Will pickup some old pillow cases at the second hand stoe , and I always carry a nice supply of garbage bags .
Ive got industrial rain gear , one set pioneer , one set mec pants and helly jacket .
I was thinking about the sponge bath Idea as well ( I like to use sent and sight camo. It may not make a difference to the deer , bot I find it helps with all the sentry animals like squirrels and birds . nothing like a squirrel alarm call to scare of deer ) , I'll either bring a pack towel or more likely wet wipes as someone else has already suggested .
Ive got a decent internal frame bag , boots are the next priority .
Saw some irish setters on cabelas for two bills , there the same model that I was looking at in van for three .
I was thinking of bringing a few body heating pads ( like the glove warmers made by hot paws ) to go in my sleeping bag , But I'll use youre advice to warm up before bed as well.
I dont like to use hydration systems when hiking because you either have to empty your pack to refill it , or you carry a lot more water weight trying to not top up , which makes you sweat more , thereby requiring you to top up any way.
That and I never like to carry liquids inside my bag , if they leak it would soak you gear.
I prefer to carry 2 bottles on the side pockets of my bag .
I'll start looking into MREs now .
Last time my wife and I used them without trying them first she woke up at 1am puking her guts out .
I had to get the fire going and take care of her til sun up , then break camp and pack both of our bags out 8km back to the road.
I was a valuable lesson in pre checking gear , but it also proved I could pickup any loose ends if I have to.
I'll check out mountain house first since everyone seems to like them .
Has anyone tried the coleman ones ? They dont seem as serious , but they have a few dessert options .
It wouldnt be bad to surprise my hunting partner with a bag of dessert and a flask of bourbon at the end of the day .
Its the little details that can make a trip more enjoyable .
Like a friend who served once said , they don't give out medals for suffering .

I would not recommend the irsh setters for mountian hunting. oranything of the like. Danners etc. I own a pair of irsh setters, they are super comfy and great for a walk through the push. Not for walking up 45 degree inclines balancing on rocks with 60lbs on your back. You NEED ankle support. And all leather boots dont have that. Look at lowa, asolo, scarpa, kentrek etc.

As far as keeping warm in your sleeping bag. Fill up your nalegene with hot water before hitting the hay and toss it in your sleeping bag. You'll be warm

[MacMtnHunter]

Language warning.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EY7lYRneHc

Thanks Big Boar, you get the point...

[Agent Orange]

I would recommend you look into the Wyoming 2 for a saw. It is made of aluminum and comes apart so it takes up very little room, is strong and light weight. It comes with a bone blade and a wood blade, cuts through both like butter. It's a little pricey ($70-80) but its the best saw I've ever used.

[NovemberBravo]

I would also recommend if you are bringing a first aid kit that you and your partner know how to use it and well. No sense only one of you knowing how to use it if that person gets hurt. There are a few first aid courses in the LML if you want to do them.


Saint john ambulance does one but I am not sure on the price. I am in the middle of taking one of their courses for school and it seems very benificial but it focuses a lot on being able to call 911

here is the link to their website.

http://www.sja.ca/Pages/default.aspx

Canada West Mountain School also does some wilderness first aid courses you may want to look into. Again not sure on price or time required but here is the link

http://www.themountainschool.com/info/first-aid-wilderness.html

Stay Safe!
NB

[new hunter]

Got a zip up first aid kit I always take , but I need to add crazy glue ( in case I dont have the balls to sew myself up ) , needle and thread ( in case I find those balls ) , tenser bandage , a knee brace ( cause I'm an old ass 29yr old ) , and I always take my migraine meds which includes a vial of percocept .
Before it comes up , I do know that pain killers can thin youre blood and cause bleed out so I would never use them with an open wound . A buggered up knee on the other hand could warrant some percs .
I also took advantage of my workplaces offer to send me to the st jhons first aid course.
I'm also going to try and rent a sat phone , or a spot if its more appropriate , but thats just so my wife can sleep when I'm gone .
I'd like to take the wilderness first aid one day , but I dont think that will be this year .

[albravo2]

seriously, forget the spot or the sat phone. get a delorme inreach. best money i've spent for the backcountry.

[new hunter]

What exactly makes a good mountain boot ?
I have always been comfortable in day hikers , but I am getting that I need something a little more skookum .
My last pair of Asolo hikers were great , but I dont think they were really back packing boots .But I did make some overnight trips with fairly heavy loads in them and quite comfortably ,especially in late july early august .
Right now I have a pair of Columbia lamanpeaks which are mostly gore tex ( omni tech actually ) and leather . They cover my ankle but dont go much higher which is why I bought gaiters .
The Irish setters I was looking at were mid calfs with a fairly aggresive sole .
I was torn between one model called Elk trackers ( for the cut , not the name ) and a similar model that looked a little lighter and had more synthetics too them.
I assume I need something with a firm sole , agressive tread , breathable and waterproof , that lace up to about mid calf ( seems to be the common traits when I look up hunting boots ).
I know I cant go off name brand alone as each shoe company makes different models for different puposes .
Back packing boots look nothing like hunting boots , which in turn look nothing like mountaineering boots .
I know I need solid foot wear , but I also need to move quietly and be comfortable .
I have always been comfortable in a light boot regardless of load , its the weather conditions that make me question my foot wear .
Any ways , what do I need , and why do I need it .
And please keep in mind , you can shoot a doe with a 45-70 , but wether you actually need that much gun is another thing .
I know the easy answer is to go overproof , but thats not always appropriate .
My boss tried to convince me I need a full size pickup for everything I do , in reality my rear wheel tacoma has proven itself to be more appropriate in most situation , I have a feeling this might be the same situation ( not that everyones offering bad advice , but that bigger and badder may not be better ).

[longstonec]

seriously, forget the spot or the sat phone. get a delorme inreach. best money i've spent for the backcountry.

Buddy just bought one. thinking about one myself now.

[albravo2]

Buddy just bought one. thinking about one myself now.

pm me if you get one. i definitely had to work out some bugs but mine works flawlessly now.

[Rob Chipman]

Sat phone - bad. The wife will make you come home early. Fiskars axe? Love mine, can't wait to see the other recommendations.

I'd do without the tent and go with the lightweight tarp, but you need to feel comfortable setting up a good tarp shelter.

Working out is good, but scout the place in the summer, and take all your gear. It's always better hunting a place you've scouted, plus you'll figure out what you need/don't need, and you'll know if you're in good enough shape. Last fall I hiked in with a couple guys 20 years younger than me, from 4000'-7000' feet and just about died (well, at least dragged ass a fair amount on the steep climbs). Half marathon on the menu this year, with my first 5 k (of this year) coming up pretty soon.

I think a lot of being comfortable in the bush is at least 50% mental. You should be able to get shelter and a fire going in pretty adverse conditions. If you can do that you can handle some pretty rough conditions well enough to make good gear a pure luxury. If you can't then good gear won't do the trick. (Don't get me wrong - great gear is wicked, but to appreciate it I think you should be able to do without it as well. Canister leaks on your Whisper-lite and melts your pump? You need to make a fire. Your -15 bag gets wet and it's pissing? You need to be able to make two big fires and sit between them).

Great lists and gear comments, btw!

[Dre]

My next boots will be Meindl Makalu or Meindl Glockner, depending on what height I deside on and which fits best. Price range is $400-$500, painfull, but worth it. If you don't want to spend that kind of money, Irish Setter, Danner, Rocky will do it. Try to buy with Gortex membrane, Gortex will replace boots that leak for the 1 year warranty. Rocky waterproof warranty is only 6 months, I don't know about others.

[new hunter]

I've been playing around in the bush since I was a little kid .
I dont want to get to personal , but as a kid I really didnt have many friends so I spent all my time in the bush .
To a point that my entire plan for my adult life was to turn my back on society and walk out in the bush and become a hermit .
To this day I have a really hard time socialising with people , I literally have to share an activity or I become really uncomfortable with everybody .
All my socialising is done at the gym or at work , literally so I can walk away from people if I dont have something to say .
I'm not trying to start a pity party here , the point is , I have lived and breathed self sufficency since I was a kid .
I thrive on primitive bush craft and although much of my knowledge is theoretical , I do have fairly decent survival skill .
I can build shelter , fire and weapons , I have tanned my own hides as a kid and know about brain tanning etc .
Believe me , I'm not rellying on my stove or my tent .
The thing about primitive survival skills are that they are some what specialised , and they stress survival , not comfort (primitive societys find comfort when they establish a fixed location and accumulate resources , not when the hunters are travelling in the bush ).
I may know how to drill a fire , but if there's no wood in the alpine you either need to camp in the tree line or pack a stove .
same goes for shelter , If youre stuck out in the open with a half decent cross wind a tarp shelter is not going to be all that practical .
Hell , I've even got a book that has instructions on making an old woodsmans pack frame out of sticks and rawhide , but that doesnt mean I'm going to leave my pack at home .
But regardless of all the knowledge I've collected , I have learned one really important lesson .
Its what you think you know that will get you in trouble .
Thats why I started this thread .
I may know how to start a fire with one match ( I always collect a generous double handful of old mans beard with the twigs still in it and keep it in my jacket against my chest for tinder , with the twigs in ) , but I was sure more experienced heads would have some very valuable info and tips to make my experience better .
I could go out with the gear and knowledge I have now , but I'd rather ask questions and be as prepared as possible .
my apologies for the personal info , it was just to put things in context .

[new hunter]

If I bring a spot or sat phone it will be a rental , I really cant afford to buy something like that right now .

[Trophyslayer]

Get the Delorme in reach I have it and love it

[new hunter]

How much for the in reach , and what does it do ?
Does it send out a distress signal like a spot ?
I've been thinking of getting a backtrack once my list gets a little shorter.
Only thing with a GPS is that if you get hurt and cant carry yourself youre pretty much screwed .
I guess thats when you light a signal fire and hope the wife has has called searc and rescue .

[Trophyslayer]

The inreach is a two way text message device 250 for the inreach and has a monthly fee. It also has a SOS like the spot you can download maps to your I phone or android and use the inreach as your gps look It up on google. I use the highest package 50 a month but only have it activated for 3 months a year 250 texts a month. It's cheaper than a sat phone and uses 2aa batteries. I bought it to keep in touch with my wife and kids it has worked flawlessly so far

[new hunter]

That does sound like a good device .
I dont have an Iphone or tablet , but the other feature sound decent .