7A Moose in decline

[Shade Tree]

I have heard from a reliable source that the moose population in 7A is in serious decline according to recent counts, so LEH tag #'s are going to be severly cut back to accommodate the conservation concerns....anyone else have info regarding this issue?

[Caribou_lou]

I think there may be a thread on this already. If my mind serves me right...

[houndsman]

The dam train kills to meney know with 12 trains per day. By 2014 thay plan on runing 34 per day. throw in a few packs of wolves & there will be no moose left.

[ianwuzhere]

The dam train kills to meney know with 12 trains per day. By 2014 thay plan on runing 34 per day. throw in a few packs of wolves & there will be no moose left.

and here i thought it was the millions of huge camps of lower mainlanders?? hehe jk

[jml11]

This isn't news...been discussed for a couple years now. I was suprised the tags numbers weren't cut last year. As has been discussed here, cutting tag numbers is likely not a cure all solution.

[tinhorse]

Cut the cow tags, get rid of calf season and kill lots of wolves. Give it a few years and Im sure it will start to turn around.

[EvanG]

Cut the cow tags, get rid of calf season and kill lots of wolves. Give it a few years and Im sure it will start to turn around.



much agreed

[moosinaround]

I have lived in 7a my entire life, I have hunted 7a for that time as well. I have NEVER seen the moose and mulie pops decline as badly as I have seen in the last 3 yrs!! It hurt last year to see the masses hunting moose, and any moose that did poke its head out of cover had 2 hunting parties going after it!! Tough hunting, and I think we may need to rethink some of our resource use decisions, not only wildlife resources, but forestry, aggregrate resources, mining, oil/gas!! Moosin

[ianwuzhere]

i agree moosin- i havent shot a mulie or a moose in region 7a in years! - not because i cant or havent seen any- its just cuz of the way i think and comparing to what i use to see.

maybe ill switch to start eating local bears, coyotes, cougars and wolves for a few years ;)

[Timbow]

I was wondering when that train would derail...... Hate to say it, but something had to break, unfortunately the ungulates get the short end of the stick.

[just hunt]

Cut the cow tags, get rid of calf season and kill lots of wolves. Give it a few years and Im sure it will start to turn around.

Id been saying that for years when i lived in the fort. i had my hole family putting in for cow draws just to give the poor burgers a chance.
I don't understand why they wait till there almost gone before they actually do something.

[reach]

Id been saying that for years when i lived in the fort. i had my hole family putting in for cow draws just to give the poor burgers a chance.
I don't understand why they wait till there almost gone before they actually do something.
Mmmm... burgers....

Bit of a sidetrack, but that strategy doesn't work long term. In theory at least, the success rate is factored into the number of authorizations issued. If more draws than usual go unused, they just increase the number of authorizations the next year to achieve the harvest number they want.

[magnumjeff]

to many wolfs, i have been huntin 7-16 7-24 for 20 years getting pretty hard to find any moose, need to cut calf and cow seasons and put bounty on wolfs

[Schmaus]

I totally disagree with cutting the tags, I don't think that cutting 10 tags per unit per season is going to do anything. The wolves and vehicles are taking out the moose so lets start there.

[BCrams]

Cut the cow tags, get rid of calf season and kill lots of wolves. Give it a few years and Im sure it will start to turn around.

Calf season is not an issue. Hunters only take about ~ 3% of the calves.

[BlacktailStalker]

How often is something taken away and not given back... in this day and age that could hurt. Understandable on a conservation standpoint though but maybe this is an echo of the "endangered" EK grizz LEH areas that we 'lost' last year and I see two more units are on the fence this year, complete bullchit.
What are the real issues, wolves and indians ?
Hard to believe BC is going to sit back and let wolves literally eat us out if that is the case but doesn't surprise me. They'll take your cheque before it gets to your bank account for taxes and piss the whole province off but tip toe around antis to prevent an outcry and sacrifce everything on hooves in the meantime. Talk about a ****ed up system and the antis aren't even the ones with guns lol

Guys up there you need to push for traplines to be made available, information to obtain them and get your asses into the course and go have some fun and help your own cause. Trapping is the ONLY way to even start to take action on these land sharks. You could be picking up all these moose talked about being hit by cars man guys around here would be drooling over all that free bait.

[hunter1947]

To many trappers without trap lines in BC that can't trap the management should come up with a solution to make it work for a few trapper that have there papers to have permission to trap on land where there is a registered trappers tap line were there is a wolf problum..

I see it this way the trapper that has his or her registered trap line and lots of wolves within there area only takes out a few dogs during his trapping months allowing a few more trappers to trap these wolves would help big time to thin out wolves within this area ,, the way I see it is the trapper is only taking a few out wolves multiply the next year keeping the numbers at large.

Lots of trappers registered trap lines that have wolf problems with in there area the wolves will not be there when the snow flies and gets deep the deer elk etc move to lower ground the wolves mover to lower ground as well following there prey they the wolves might be in another registered trap line area when they move to lower elevations where nothing is being done to trap wolves ???.

In order to put a dent in a overpopulated area where wolfs are at big numbers is to hit them hard and take out lots of the wolfs with in that area this meaning let a few trappers that have there papers and are equipped with all the necessary gear to trap wolves on a registered trap line.

On Vancouver island where I lived in central part of the island my friend that was a trapper had a hell of a time getting permission to trap wolfs on this other persons registered trap line this trapper that had this line did no trapping for wolves on his trap line the wolves where big numbers within this trap line area ..

My opinion the management should look into this matter within a registered trap line where wolves are a big problem and make sure the trapper is trapping for wolfs and if he or she is not trapping for wolves within there registered area they the management should allow other trappers to trap on this trap line to control the numbers of wolves.

Lets face it if there is no trapping for wolfs on his or her trap line where there are lots of wolves in there area how can the numbers be reduced ???? something management should look at..

I for one have my trapper papers now for 14 years and it just upsets me to no end that I can't put my papers to work when I know where wolves are ..

[fearnodeer]

To many trappers around parts of BC that can't trap on a registerd trap lines that have wolf problums they the management should come up with a solution to make it work for trappers that have thee papers to trap on land where there is a registered trappers tap line ,,I see it this way the trapper that has his registered trap line only takes few dogs out during his trapping monts allowed ,,all they are doing is taking a few out then the wolfs multiply the next year.

In order to put a dent in a overpopulated area where wolfs are at big numbers is to hit them hard and take out lots of the wolfs with in that area this meaning let a few trappers that have there papers and are equipped with all the necessary gear to trap wolves on there registered trap line.

On Vancouver island where I lived in central part of the island my friend that was a trapper had a hell of a time getting permission to trap wolfs on this other persons registered trap line this trapper that had this line had did no trapping for wolves on his trap line the wolves where big numbers within this trap line area ..

I think the management should look into this matter within a registered trap line are where wolves are a big problem and make sure the trapper is trapping for wolfs and if he or she is not trapping for wolves within there registered area they the management should allow other trappers to trap on this trap line.

Lets face it if there is no trapping for wolfs on this trappers trap line there are lots of wolves in his area how can the numbers be reduced something management should look at..

Well said.

[E.B.]

Cut the cow tags, get rid of calf season and kill lots of wolves. Give it a few years and Im sure it will start to turn around.

Get rid of the cow and calf season and have only an immy season and a bull draw. No females should ever be shot unless there are too many moose.

[rcar]

I totally disagree with cutting the tags, I don't think that cutting 10 tags per unit per season is going to do anything. The wolves and vehicles are taking out the moose so lets start there.

Not sure if we are talking the same numbers but on a really "rough" count there are over 2000 LEH cow/calf tags issued in PG region.. If the population is in trouble this is a really good place to start. I would love to see a wolf directive from the ministry but let's not hold our breath on that. The best we can hope for in the short term is to manage what we hunt.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Id been saying that for years when i lived in the fort. i had my hole family putting in for cow draws just to give the poor burgers a chance.
I don't understand why they wait till there almost gone before they actually do something.

Please explain how reg 5 has the same issues as 7A is now experiencing??

[Wade]

I had a big bull tag last year for 7-08,7-09. We didn't see a single moose or even a black bear. The only moose sign we saw was hair that passed thru a wolfs ass. Heard wolves howling almost every night. Usually we see 5-8 bears a day, I think the wolves might be killing the bears too.

[rcar]

Pleaes explain how reg 5 has the same issues as 7A is now experiencing??

A good point. I have a cabin in region 5 and see very few moose. Aside from the wolves, which are a obvious issue, over hunting for years is a key issue. Also poaching and sustenance hunting all take their toll. When a stock drops below a certain level it tends to crash and takes a long time to recover.....just ask the cod fishermen off the east coast. It's been almost 20 years and the stocks are still not fishable.

[TPK]

Get rid of the cow and calf season and have only an immy season and a bull draw. No females should ever be shot unless there are too many moose.

That's poor management, look at where Region 5 is at after so many years of just bull draws. You can not manage just the males and have success. You need a small cow/calf component in the harvest strategy. The issue is controlling that small component of the harvest because as you alluded to .. the cow population is critical.

[GoatGuy]

Mpotzold, you're rough calculations are a bit too rough for wildlife management and your opposition to calf or cow harvest is a bit misinformed.

Following is a link to an article that tackles the issue and a large part of it is quoted from Dr. Val Geist, a wildlife ecologist and most hunters favorite 'writer'. He is also a hunter.

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=52

[kebes]

I had a big bull tag last year for 7-08,7-09. We didn't see a single moose or even a black bear. The only moose sign we saw was hair that passed thru a wolfs ass. Heard wolves howling almost every night. Usually we see 5-8 bears a day, I think the wolves might be killing the bears too.

I'm a little surprised you didn't see many bears in there. I hunted the same unit this fall and while there's no doubt there are wolves and bears in there(we saw 6 bears on september 10th alone and the numbers didn't slow down all that much over the duration of the season).

As for moose, I spent a lot of time out (including summer scouting) and saw 3 cows 1 calf and 1 bull. I don't THINK that that's indicative of the number of moose in the area however as I saw tracks almost everywhere I went. Quite honestly I think they're staying in the thick stuff due to pressure (human and animal).

[Island Redneck]

Mpotzold, you're rough calculations are a bit too rough for wildlife management and your opposition to calf or cow harvest is a bit misinformed.

Following is a link to an article that tackles the issue and a large part of it is quoted from Dr. Val Geist, a wildlife ecologist and most hunters favorite 'writer'. He is also a hunter.

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=52

This is a quote from the article
(“Calf hunts are not the appropriate management tool in all locations, but a combination of high moose density, poor habitat, and an intensive management mandate make Unit 20A an ideal location,” Young said.)

Region 7a does not have a high moose density, or poor habitat so according to the article a calf moose season may not be an appropriate management tool for Region 7a.

[ianwuzhere]

do you guys think that keeping the normal 2 point season as well as calf season but reducing the number of bull and cow/calf lehs is an efficent way to help sustain the population??
-cuz obviously the bull only like region 5 didnt work out too well, and evidence has shown that taking small percentage of calves out of the equation doesnt hurt the population too bad and puts meat on table..

[GoatGuy]

Island Redneck,

Given the density in some of the areas a calf or cow harvest probably isn't in the best interests of wildlife or users. Having said that, the blanket 'cow/calf harvest shouldn't happen' isn't consistent with reality, nor are the assumptions.

[GoatGuy]

do you guys think that keeping the normal 2 point season as well as calf season but reducing the number of bull and cow/calf lehs is an efficent way to help sustain the population??
-cuz obviously the bull only like region 5 didnt work out too well, and evidence has shown that taking small percentage of calves out of the equation doesnt hurt the population too bad and puts meat on table..

You likely aren't going to find an issue with sex ratios, the problem is with density. Attempting to maximize yield is part of the harvest strategy, but in many areas we'll be switching over to recovery mode. Typically that's tied to cow mortality.

The big issue is establishing the why.

[HarryToolips]

Cut the cow tags, get rid of calf season and kill lots of wolves. Give it a few years and Im sure it will start to turn around.

That would make sense...

[416]

It would be interesting if we could get a govt biologist as part of our forum. We as hunters are responsible for a huge impact on our wildlife numbers and it would be good to have those creating policy and those implementing some of them to be able to have direct access to each other. The govt's methods of communicating with people is obsolete and there faster ways of doing things. Plus it would get everyone on the same page. Right now it seems everyone has a piece of truth but we don't know the whole picture.
Its been my observation that we as hunters are the ones out there and on the ground floor so to speak and we are often the ones who first recognize the changes in our wild life numbers. Seems to take the govt about 4 years to react once an issue is recognized...1st year, problem exists according to hunters, 2nd year the govt waits to see if its an anomaly or whether there is a trend, 3rd year the govt recognizes the problem and about the 4th year they implement changes to address the issue, mean while the animals suffer. With the modern means of communication l find it hard to understand why it takes so long. Animal populations change for a variety of reasons.( weather, hunting pressure, disease, competition for food (ie cattle) predators illegal harvests....the list is long) but reacting to a change in numbers is something we should be able to address faster then the 4 year (or more) turn around we have right now.

[tinhorse]

I know alot of calves arn't taken by hunters and most are winter killed or predator killed but I think that anything to help get the numbers up is what needs to be done without closing off all seasons or tags. keep the immy bull season and look at bull tag numbers in certain areas, reduce or get rid of cow seasons = more calves - get rid of calf season and let them grow up. major issue is predators - they need to be declined,

[Island Redneck]

Island Redneck,

Given the density in some of the areas a calf or cow harvest probably isn't in the best interests of wildlife or users. Having said that, the blanket 'cow/calf harvest shouldn't happen' isn't consistent with reality, nor are the assumptions.

Where in BC. are the moose so over populated for the habitat that a cow/calf season is waranted in your opinion, .

[GoatGuy]

Where in BC. are the moose so over populated for the habitat that a cow/calf season is waranted in your opinion, .

Density and the application of cow/calf isn't necessarily tied to 'over-populated'. I can see where you're going with this - until wildlife has exceeded the capacity of the land it makes no sense to harvest anything but males. That doesn't tie in to wildlife management or science very well.

There are a few places where a cow/calf harvest would be sustainable and may even help the population and others where ingrowth will result in a significant decline in moose, so you might as well harvest them. Parts of region 8 is certainly one example. Region 7A was a good example of a model for sustainable management.

The critical thing is to adapt to changing conditions and apply management which is consistent with the needs of wildlife and secondly 'users'.

[HarryToolips]

I ain't no expert, but why don't they for a little while til numbers pick up, implement the immy season, and have any bull + cow/calf draws in certain areas. As stated many times before, any pred control would help, but also why doesn't the ministry of forests, once replanting a block after logging has been done, start de-activating roads? That way the First Nations/poachers with their spotlights will have a much harder time at night hunting. In region 5 where all moose hunting is controlled by LEH and there's still a problem, wouldn't that tell you that the biggest reason for that area's decline is road access which leads to easier poaching as well as the preds?

[Boner]

They do deactivate blocks. Even before they are planted.

[Frango]

Yet another problem down the road is the lack of reforestation. From what I have seen there are 1000's upon 1000's of acres just left with no thought about the future .The future not just for ungulates but for people is not good. I'm a glass half full kind of guy but I think the old days are just that. Last year 3 of us had a 2 moose LEH. We got 2 bulls. I fear it may be a long time for this to happen again,not just because of LEH odds but because moose are going to be harder and rarer to find. One of my hunting partners had his 13 year old son along. It was good to have a new generation hunter in camp but I could not help but feel how much tougher it was going to be for him to get his moose. Lets hope I'm wrong.

[Ambush]

A few things always puzzle me.

Mpotzold hunts his familiar area and can find no moose, no tracks, no sign so concludes there are no moose. Then goes on to say that a few natives killed at least six moose in the previous two nights with lights in the same area. :confused: Don't the "night time" moose leave tracks or shit?

AND, what are these wolves living on if there have been no moose for the last few years?

[drakfero]

could not agree more.. if you go just for meat , go to superstore..
some are crying about calf season , are you also crying to pay for bridges in Vancouver 2x? once from your taxes and now again from you own pocket????


Get rid of the cow and calf season and have only an immy season and a bull draw. No females should ever be shot unless there are too many moose.

[ianwuzhere]

i agree 416- everyone has their own opinions and think their ideas are the best.
most wildlife biologists ive known or heard about think they know more then everyone and have egos that show it- thus proving less useful then most people who havent sat in class rooms for years..
-but common sense you cannot teach, and most of us have it and can come to a common agreement and take the req agreed upon actions thereafter!

[Timbow]

Yet another problem down the road is the lack of reforestation. From what I have seen there are 1000's upon 1000's of acres just left with no thought about the future .The future not just for ungulates but for people is not good. I'm a glass half full kind of guy but I think the old days are just that. Last year 3 of us had a 2 moose LEH. We got 2 bulls. I fear it may be a long time for this to happen again,not just because of LEH odds but because moose are going to be harder and rarer to find. One of my hunting partners had his 13 year old son along. It was good to have a new generation hunter in camp but I could not help but feel how much tougher it was going to be for him to get his moose. Lets hope I'm wrong.

Where have you seen this? Region 7A?

[Frango]

Where have you seen this? Region 7A?

7-24,7-28, last year.

[southsider]

Don't act so surprised, guys.
That was the BC government who said if we kill all the moose in 7A, the wolves will move on, and leave the small caribou herd alone.
Smart thinking!!!!

[ianwuzhere]

Don't act so surprised, guys.
That was the BC government who said if we kill all the moose in 7A, the wolves will move on, and leave the small caribou herd alone.
Smart thinking!!!!

haha- ya i remember years ago wildlife biologists saying this about 7A- doh!