Why 4 pt seasons?

[Gateholio]

Just as an offshoot of the "any buck" thread, I t?ought i woudl start a thread discussing *why* e have 4 pt seasons.

All comments are viable here:

8-)

[Steeleco]

Why indeed??, I'm not a prolific hunter, but get a field as often as time permits. I envy and admire the people that have the patience to hunt an animal year after year till successful. But in general I have wondered for some time if we only hunt the largest of animals in any season will we not eventually reduce the gene pool to such a point that the larger creatures are hard to find? I know the 5pt vs 6pt debate on Elk has been ongoing for ever, I draw a parralell to 4 pt deer in this post.

I'm not going on science, just what I think is logical (at least to me!!)

Have the size of our local game fish not been reduced, due to everyone wanting the lunker????

[sealevel]

One good thing thats come of it is a lot of slob hunters have quit and stay in the bar. These are just my own observations and they are from a man how is in the bush over 250 days a year. Our buck to doe ratio is getting a lot better. And the amount of 4 points i have seen in the last 5 years tells me its working well. But in saying that in the last 2 years i have seen huge 2 and 3 points that are big bodyd heathy deer are these deer passing on those genes --i don`t know. For now its working well but time will tell

[oscar makonka]

At least they live long enough to get to be 4 points and do some breeding before being shot. You'll never know how much potential all those little bucks had when you kill them when they are just 2 point teenagers.

[mark]

I like it. It gets rid of alot of hunters, as most will try to tag out in the any buck season, or give up when it comes to 4 points! The any buck season still allows meat hunters ample opportunity, as well the big 2 and 3 points a chance to get harvested. I KNOW there are many other factors, but the deer pop is as healthy as ever, and the BC record books are recording more trophys and #1's than ever! Just my thoughts, go ahead and slay me now!

[sawmill]

I like it. It gets rid of alot of hunters, as most will try to tag out in the any buck season, or give up when it comes to 4 points! The any buck season still allows meat hunters ample opportunity, as well the big 2 and 3 points a chance to get harvested. I KNOW there are many other factors, but the deer pop is as healthy as ever, and the BC record books are recording more trophys and #1's than ever! Just my thoughts, go ahead and slay me now!
It`s odd though that Dawson Creek/Fort St.John area has had a 4 pnt. season for over 20 years on mulies and now you are only allowed 1 buck every 2 years.AND there is talk of the same thing for Whities.Yet there is a million flat tops walking around getting bred by the 1-2 pointers they gave birth to the spring before(cue the banjoe music)
I also object to the term "slob hunters".There are thousands of damn good and ethical hunters who just want a nice legal critter to put in their freezer but are not willing to climbe 8 thousand feet and get the monster and pack it out on a trapper nelson .Simple fact is most guys can`t do what the top 10% can.but we all love to hunt.
Anyway,my opinion is that we should concentrate on the buck to doe ratio,10,000 does/250 bucks?I would love to see a 7-10 day season on antlerless and that would save SO many bucks cause it would meet the needs of 90% of the hunters who just want to eat deer steak and eggs on a dreary Febuary Saterday morning.And where I live,the population could easily handle a doe season.Course now we are looking at a seriously bad winter for the first time in 8 years so maybe nature will level things out.....

[sealevel]

Sawmill its sure not for lack of deer that you can only shoot 1 mule deer in 2 years in dawson or fort st john. And whats wrong with 2 pionts breeding as long as they have good genes ? I sure agree with a doe season as long as they open the whole prov. at the same time.

[sawmill]

Sawmill its sure not for lack of deer that you can only shoot 1 mule deer in 2 years in dawson or fort st john. And whats wrong with 2 pionts breeding as long as they have good genes ? I sure agree with a doe season as long as they open the whole prov. at the same time.
You can`t open the whole province up,we have more land mass than most european countries,but you can manage game populatians if we can convince the city folk that we know more about our local game than any outsider can ever hope to,no matter how many U.B.C rookies they send in for a 2 month "evaluation"The people who write the Reg`s are not neccesarily hunters,they are data proccesers,they see the numbers,they call the shots based on that,Hunters,the people in the bush are the best baromiter of whats going on in the field,what the pop is in Dawson Creek is COMPLETLY different than the deer or elk pop down here .One standard for all of a province our size is unrealistic,we need to have some hunters helping to make the rules.
Any volinteers?I`ll kick in a 100$ to get a good,smart hunter elected to represent our wildlife and our traditions.I`m poor but I am passionate about this.

[boonerbuck]

Sawmill, there are plenty of of slob hunters out there. Guys who make you want to puke when you see them display their disrespect for the outdoors and the privilege to hunt.

About 4 point season....

I and other hunters I've discussed this with agree that it is easier to come across a 4 point now than it was back when it was any buck all season long.

So many deer were getting nailed before they became mature that it was really tough out there. I bitched and moaned at first when they implemented it but after a few years hunting was improving and at a time when the winters were not quite as gentle as the last few.

Here in the Cariboo some areas are over populated with mulies. They have opened it up to any buck all the way to Nov 20th. They want to reduce the sex ratio and overpopulation. Any buck season during a period when the population is stable or on the decline could have this same effect which is not good.

[Will]

I'm for it......don't really know the "Real" logic behind it but my take is a 4x4 Muley is certainly NO rare commodity in BC.

It's just an average typical Healthy Mature Buck isn't it ?
Lets the Little Fellas have a chance to Mature I guess:|

I also Favour the Any Buck seasons as well...there is a place for everything.

BTW : Not everyone that shoots "Any Buck" is a "Slob Hunter" though:roll:

[boonerbuck]

BTW : Not everyone that shoots "Any Buck" is a "Slob Hunter" though:roll:

I still cannot find where anyone said that....

[Will]

I still cannot find where anyone said that....


One good thing thats come of it is a lot of slob hunters have quit and stay in the bar.
It Implies that some Hunters who Cannot "shoot" a 4 Point have quit Hunting.......at least that's how I read it:|

Anyone that Lazy probably didn't get out too often anyways;-)

[GoatGuy]

One good thing thats come of it is a lot of slob hunters have quit and stay in the bar.

With a comment like that you must be joking?

[boonerbuck]

That implies slobs are lazy, thats all.

Jeeze, maybe there should be a slob defense fund started. Who's gonna pass the hat?:)

[GoatGuy]

It`s odd though that Dawson Creek/Fort St.John area has had a 4 pnt. season for over 20 years on mulies and now you are only allowed 1 buck every 2 years.AND there is talk of the same thing for Whities.Yet there is a million flat tops walking around getting bred by the 1-2 pointers they gave birth to the spring before(cue the banjoe music)
I also object to the term "slob hunters".There are thousands of damn good and ethical hunters who just want a nice legal critter to put in their freezer but are not willing to climbe 8 thousand feet and get the monster and pack it out on a trapper nelson .Simple fact is most guys can`t do what the top 10% can.but we all love to hunt.
Anyway,my opinion is that we should concentrate on the buck to doe ratio,10,000 does/250 bucks?I would love to see a 7-10 day season on antlerless and that would save SO many bucks cause it would meet the needs of 90% of the hunters who just want to eat deer steak and eggs on a dreary Febuary Saterday morning.And where I live,the population could easily handle a doe season.Course now we are looking at a seriously bad winter for the first time in 8 years so maybe nature will level things out.....

The regs in 7B are because of one regional biologist who's made a complete mess of just about ALL animal populations up there.

Next year there will be BIG changes as he's been secluded (FINALLY)! Major changes to elk for sure and I'm sure they'll be adjusting/reconsidering deer,moose and sheep regs. It certainly can't get any worse up there.

[Will]

That implies slobs are lazy, thats all.
That was my Point........the 4 Point only season does nothing to rid the Bush of Slobs. That's ALL I was getting at.

Sorry if I offended any Slobs:lol:

[Onesock]

We bow hunted in Ft St John/Chetwyn area a couple of years ago in the early bow season. We say tons of doe's and couldn't figure out why there was a GOS for 10 days or so for doe's, but bowhunter's couldn't shoot doe's in the early bow only season. If the buck to doe ratio is so far out of wack I would like to see bow hunters be able to shoot a doe in the early season. Someone correct me if I am wrong but a healthy deer herd has a 1-1 or 1-2 buck to doe ratio. I like the any buck season and I also like the 4 pt season if there is the correct number of does. Goatguy, do you know what the buck to doe ratio is around Ft St John? If the herd is in trouble, and I mean all the dinker bucks are being shot up there, I think the 4 pt season is justified. I there are too many doe's, then some should be culled.

[Fisher-Dude]

BTW : Not everyone that shoots "Any Buck" is a "Slob Hunter" though:roll:

Thank God! I like to put a 2 point in the freezer early in the season. I've packed on some cheese, but I ain't quite up to "slob" status yet! :rolleyes:

[J_T]

The 4 pt restriction is typically put on to preserve the smaller bucks and maintain a healthy herd.

In my opinion, the results of implementing such seasons are not monitored well enough to make adjustments.

It does tend to say to society that we are trophy hunters. I believe it cuts into hunting opportunity and I would agree with Onesock in the case of the north.

A lot of guys quit hunting with those sorts of restrictions because they don't see the opportunity in that regulation. They aren't slob hunters, they might be smart hunters, they might be hunters that can't justify the hunt to a family because of low odds of success.

JT

[willyqbc]

Well i sat in on the region 5 allocation meeting yesterday and this topic was discussed some. From what i can gather from the biologists

- the provincial standard is 25 bucks/100 does
- of those 25 bucks 2.5 should be class 4 animals (4 point or better)
- a small amount will be class 1, with the remainder and bulk being filled out with class 2 and 3 bucks.

SO.....reason for a 4 point season I would suspect is if you have an area where the age demographic is shifting to far to the older animals then the ministry will want to target the class 4 bucks to bring the numbers back to what they consider to be ideal. The spring counts for region 5 would indicate we are slightly under in buck/doe ratio (approx 20/100) and slightly low on class 4 animals,( approx 2 per 25 bucks) but they were quick to point out that a 1 year decline is in no way a trend...could have just been a bad day for a count.

Not sure if the reasoning is good or bad in a hunting sense but I'm assuming the biological reasoning for the herd breakdown numbers is sound.

Chris

[Will]

I've packed on some cheese, but I ain't quite up to "slob" status yet! :rolleyes:
Well keep Scarfing down those Fat & Juicy 2 Pointer steaks and...

No worries.......I'm not Mr Fitness niether :wink:

I'm Lazy, abit Fat I guess(at least the Beer gut) and I smoke.......Funny how I can still manage to get out and Hunt :|

I must blend in well with the other 99% of Hunters :lol:

[Timbow]

We bow hunted in Ft St John/Chetwyn area a couple of years ago in the early bow season. We say tons of doe's and couldn't figure out why there was a GOS for 10 days or so for doe's, but bowhunter's couldn't shoot doe's in the early bow only season. If the buck to doe ratio is so far out of wack I would like to see bow hunters be able to shoot a doe in the early season.

This is one statement I read on the various posts and would disagree with. I am a bowhunter but disagree with early seasons for bow only. I would rather see a general doe season for everyone rather than a small interest group.

My thoughts on the topic is simple. If you look at the hunting trends for resident hunters, it's going down. We have to look at whole situation that fits everyone and everything. Trying to get a balance is the difficult part. Having a 4 point season will definately reduce the number of hunters to mainly trophy hunters targeting any sized 4 point. I enjoy shooting and eating a nice sized buck with any antler configuration...if it's before the middle of October with September being the best month for my taste buds. The end of October thru to the end of the season will have to be a hawg in my books.

As hunters we have the power to help conservation in choosing what we think is logical. Just because there is a general season does not mean we all have to fill every tag readily available. I see more local hunters practice this approach (being more selective) opposed to non local hunters who have a lot of time, money and resources invested in their hunt. I know this because I am one of them.

just my .02's worth

[hunter1947]

I like it. It gets rid of alot of hunters, as most will try to tag out in the any buck season, or give up when it comes to 4 points! The any buck season still allows meat hunters ample opportunity, as well the big 2 and 3 points a chance to get harvested. I KNOW there are many other factors, but the deer pop is as healthy as ever, and the BC record books are recording more trophys and #1's than ever! Just my thoughts, go ahead and slay me now! Im with you mark on this issue ,you hit the nail dead center ,hunter 1947

[hunter1947]

We bow hunted in Ft St John/Chetwyn area a couple of years ago in the early bow season. We say tons of doe's and couldn't figure out why there was a GOS for 10 days or so for doe's, but bowhunter's couldn't shoot doe's in the early bow only season. If the buck to doe ratio is so far out of wack I would like to see bow hunters be able to shoot a doe in the early season. Someone correct me if I am wrong but a healthy deer herd has a 1-1 or 1-2 buck to doe ratio. I like the any buck season and I also like the 4 pt season if there is the correct number of does. Goatguy, do you know what the buck to doe ratio is around Ft St John? If the herd is in trouble, and I mean all the dinker bucks are being shot up there, I think the 4 pt season is justified. I there are too many doe's, then some should be culled. 1 Bucks 4 does is the proper ratio for deer. hunter 1947.

[GoatGuy]

This is one statement I read on the various posts and would disagree with. I am a bowhunter but disagree with early seasons for bow only. I would rather see a general doe season for everyone rather than a small interest group.

My thoughts on the topic is simple. If you look at the hunting trends for resident hunters, it's going down. We have to look at whole situation that fits everyone and everything. Trying to get a balance is the difficult part. Having a 4 point season will definately reduce the number of hunters to mainly trophy hunters targeting any sized 4 point. I enjoy shooting and eating a nice sized buck with any antler configuration...if it's before the middle of October with September being the best month for my taste buds. The end of October thru to the end of the season will have to be a hawg in my books.

As hunters we have the power to help conservation in choosing what we think is logical. Just because there is a general season does not mean we all have to fill every tag readily available. I see more local hunters practice this approach (being more selective) opposed to non local hunters who have a lot of time, money and resources invested in their hunt. I know this because I am one of them.

just my .02's worth

UH OH! Now you've gone and done it! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[elkguide]

I'm not sure but I think that 4 point only season for just 4-5 years would do woders for the buck/doe ratio in some regions. With a heathier ratio we should excpect more trophy bucks overall shouldn't we? By watching the programs implemented in some of our southern cousin's States we can see the results of quality game management ( I'm not a huge texan fan but they do have great whitetail hunting now because of their game management polocies) I believe we can do the same and in the long run everyone will be happy that we did.

[Onesock]

Timbow- I think you missed the point. There "is" an opening for doe's in the GOS around Ft St John. I would be nice also if a person could shoot a buck or doe in the 10 day bow season. If does are open in the GOS for 10 days I don't know why they wouldn't be open in bow only season. Any reason's. Baffles me. GG, do you have any reason's.

[GoatGuy]

Timbow- I think you missed the point. There "is" an opening for doe's in the GOS around Ft St John. I would be nice also if a person could shoot a buck or doe in the 10 day bow season. If does are open in the GOS for 10 days I don't know why they wouldn't be open in bow only season. Any reason's. Baffles me. GG, do you have any reason's.

With what has gone on in that region your guess what be as good as mine. I'm sure the bio has some sort of reason for it! :|

Same as the reason why there's only a 3 week 4 pt or better season for WT's???? Why there's a 4 pt or better 3 week season for Muley's when there's all kinds of 'bush' muleys that are completely and totally inaccessible after mid October? Why they have more friggen elk than anywhere in the province and the majority of the area's inaccessible and they have a 6pt or better season???? Why they have a one week elk season in some areas and why some areas aren't even open for elk? Why they used to have an unenforcable quad time ban???????? Like the energizer bunny I could go on and on and on and on................................................ ..

[brno375]

Major changes to elk for sure and I'm sure they'll be adjusting/reconsidering deer,moose and sheep regs.

Here's to hoping.

[Islandeer]

I think there should be a 35 lb chinook season. That way me and all of my local buddies can catch bigger fish. And more trophy fish will be able to spawn and make more 35 pounders for me and my local buddies to catch. This should be all season and forever. It will be harder for us locals, but we can fish alot because we have boats in the water and live really close to our trophy fish. It might be harder for other residents of BC to catch a 35lber but if they really want a trophy chinook they should try harder or move to the coast. Who would want to catch a 20 or 30lber anyhow?? 8)

[rollingrock]

4x4 muley isn't rare, but 4x4 bt is. besides there're other hunters who only look for meat instead of racks.

[000buck]

hmmmmmm not enough deer to go round what to do? set a very high bar and reduce the chance of success, make a limited entry or say not enough to hunt leave them alone.

It's not about the kill its about the hunt it's nice to put meat in the freezer but it's better to get out in the woods for a while even its just to take your gun for a walk. I don't know about you but i get as big a rush out of seeing something that i could shoot as i do from shooting it.

[sealevel]

I did not mean guys that shoot any buck as a slob hunter. A hunter slob is the guy who shot a hole in my chain saw when i was struggling to raise a family. Our the hunter who shot a hole in my 300 gal fuel tank. Hollywoods take on hunters driving around drunk and shooting is not someone imagination anyone old enough to have hunted in the 70s and 80s shoud remember. The is not a logging outfit in the prov. who hasn`t had things shot by HUNTERS we have had a lot less things shot up since there has been more game laws ! why because a lot of hunters have quit.

[Rainwater]

Sorry but those aren't hunters, just guys driving around with guns!!!!!!!!!

[boonerbuck]

I did not mean guys that shoot any buck as a slob hunter. A hunter slob is the guy who shot a hole in my chain saw when i was struggling to raise a family. Our the hunter who shot a hole in my 300 gal fuel tank. Hollywoods take on hunters driving around drunk and shooting is not someone imagination anyone old enough to have hunted in the 70s and 80s shoud remember. The is not a logging outfit in the prov. who hasn`t had things shot by HUNTERS we have had a lot less things shot up since there has been more game laws ! why because a lot of hunters have quit.

You've nailed it. Those are slobs and they are out there.

There's also people who are lazy. That's their own choice and who can really criticize them. As long as they like anyone else are practicing proper ethics and following the regulations, it's nobody's business.

I will agree that the 4 point season reduces the number of both mentioned above.:)

[dana]

I don't believe the 4 point or better seasons are in place for the 'trophy hunter' versus the any buck seasons for the 'meat hunter'. I believe they are acheive a different goal. They keep people hunting but greatly restrict the amount of animals being killed. The 4 point count alone means a lot of bucks get away. Instead of the few seconds it takes to see bone, hunters have to take the time to get the count. Those few moments is all it takes for bucks bail. I believe if you look at the stats of when the majority of animals are harvested in Region 3, you'll find the vast majority are harvested in Oct. But hunter numbers can be higher during the 4 point or better seasons.