Changes to youth hunting Reg 8 proposal?

[Kirby]

Just got an e-mail with the proposed reg changes this one seems a bit odd:

Change youth Deer seasons to September 11 to 30. Avoids conflict between youth rifle hunters and archery hunters Proposed by K-CSA


Firstly Just curious who K-CSA is as I'm not familiar with them. As to "conflicts" deal with it, the woods belong to all of us.

Kirby

[Jimmy4x4]

K-CSA did not endorse this. someone stuck that on the proposal to try and give it some weight. the usual bow only suspects from keremeos come to mind! maybe aggiehunter can enlighten us since he has long pushed for this

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Keremeos/Cawston would be my guess. Rainwater???

Jeeze-I guess if that passes thru then my proposed youth grouse season from Sept 1-9 won't fly??

SSS

[one-shot-wonder]

Keremeos Cawstom Sportsman

Conflicts in the early archery season??
Maybe then we should curtail the early archery season to give the youth an exclusive chance before school starts! I am an archer myself and can say I dont usually get out for the early season anyways......way to hot still!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Keremeos Cawstom Sportsman

Conflicts in the early archery season??
Maybe then we should curtail the early archery season to give the youth an exclusive chance before school starts! I am an archer myself and can say I dont usually get out for the early season anyways......way to hot still!

I'm planning on booking off the first week of Sept to take out my daughter. She'll be packing iron but I'll have my bow....but of course she's priority #1.
I don't understand how "some people" think this doesn't works?

SSS

[Jimmy4x4]

once again read my post above. k-csa has NOTHING to do with this.

[coach]

Awesome! A bunch of self serving bow hunters making a proposal to take opportunity away from kids. Hunters battling hunters. My way is better than your way. I'm more important than everyone else. It's a ridiculous attitude that does nothing for the future of our sport. Disgusting!

[Wild one]

I have had no problem with kids hunting with rifle during Sept 1-9. The only issue I have seen with this season is dads using there kids so they can hunt with a rifle.

The Dads taking out there kids so the kid can hunt I have no problem with. Most often Dads taking out there kid seem to stay close to the road or road hunt. Most often I sit or hike so they don't bother me

Personally it looks like the kids will be getting a longer season so I can't see the change hurting them. But I bet anti bowhunters will fight it just to fight with bowhunters

[GoatGuy]

The only issue I have seen with this season is dads using there kids so they can hunt with a rifle.


I think everyone agrees with this 100%, just like the guy who hunts without a tag, hunt at night etc.

[GoatGuy]

Personally it looks like the kids will be getting a longer season so I can't see the change hurting them. But I bet anti bowhunters will fight it just to fight with bowhunters

And to my knowledge all of the guys who have replied, maybe other than Jimmy 4X4, bowhunt. :mrgreen:

[J_T]

Jeeze boys. You guys are jumping to conclusions faster than an olympic hurdler. Just read what you've each linked together. Next, bowhunters will be taking over the world. Coach, use a kleenex to clean that drivel off your face before you drool all over your keyboard. Come on. "a bunch of self serving bowhunters"? take off the white cape and conical hat. I civility might rule once Fischer Dude left. Have you ever considered 'someone else's way'? Frickin piranhas.

Kids should in fact have a longer advantaged season than just a 10 day season. And a mentor/parent should have more than just 10 days to give their kids a better shot at taking an animal. As to the allegations hurled at a past HBC member, these are completely unfounded. I understand based on his history. I will tell you that in Region 4 the wildlife section head proposed moving a youth mule deer enhanced odd opportunity to Sept 10 - 30th. It was not proposed by a hunter that we know of. Maybe it's the same thing in region 8?

Stone Sheep Steve, I'd be cautious about what you are proposing in your hunt with your daughter. I know what you are proposing sounds legitimate and what I'm proposing sounds crazy. Check with Jesse (GG) for an email I sent to him just before Christmas, or send me a pm.

[GoatGuy]

Jeeze boys. You guys are jumping to conclusions faster than an olympic hurdler. Just read what you've each linked together. Next, bowhunters will be taking over the world. Coach, use a kleenex to clean that drivel off your face before you drool all over your keyboard. Come on. "a bunch of self serving bowhunters"? take off the white cape and conical hat. I civility might rule once Fischer Dude left. Have you ever considered 'someone else's way'? Frickin piranhas.

Kids should in fact have a longer advantaged season than just a 10 day season. And a mentor/parent should have more than just 10 days to give their kids a better shot at taking an animal. As to the allegations hurled at a past HBC member, these are completely unfounded. I understand based on his history. I will tell you that in Region 4 the wildlife section head proposed moving a youth mule deer enhanced odd opportunity to Sept 10 - 30th. It was not proposed by a hunter that we know of. Maybe it's the same thing in region 8?

Stone Sheep Steve, I'd be cautious about what you are proposing in your hunt with your daughter. I know what you are proposing sounds legitimate and what I'm proposing sounds crazy. Check with Jesse (GG) for an email I sent to him just before Christmas, or send me a pm.

The youth season for MD is currently any buck and it runs from Sept 1-Nov 10 in Region 8, just over 2 months.

[Ron.C]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, do away with all "special seasons" and open it up to everyone, regardless of age or what you choose to hunt with.

and yes, I bowhunt too.

[coach]

Personally it looks like the kids will be getting a longer season so I can't see the change hurting them. But I bet anti bowhunters will fight it just to fight with bowhunters

The current youth season in region 8 runs September 1 to 30. This proposal would shorten the season by 10 days. I hunt with a bow - so I'm not anti-bow hunter. I AM against people who propose regulations for purely selfish social reasons though. Unfortunately (some) bow hunters often put themselves into that category. I guess we can keep shortening region 8 seasons and force more people to crowd into region 3 - where there's a lot less social management on the agenda.

[J_T]

The current youth season in region 8 runs September 1 to 30. This proposal would shorten the season by 10 days. I hunt with a bow - so I'm not anti-bow hunter. I AM against people who propose regulations for purely selfish social reasons though. Unfortunately (some) bow hunters often put themselves into that category. I guess we can keep shortening region 8 seasons and force more people to crowd into region 3 - where there's a lot less social management on the agenda. Thanks for the 'some'. I did feel hunters had started to come together more of late and the 'us vs them' attitude was less an issue on here over the past few months.

[coach]

Thanks for the 'some'. I did feel hunters had started to come together more of late and the 'us vs them' attitude was less an issue on here over the past few months.

I agree with you. Hopefully things can stay that way. Would like to hear where this proposal comes from.

[Singleshotneeded]

I think the regs in this case are fine just the way they are...

[buck nash]

I don't really think anyone (except the pita types who think it's especially cruel) is "anti-bow hunting". However people are opposed to special seasons. People don't like to see one group favoured over another. At least thats how I feel about it. However getting youth involved in this sport is the only way to keep it viable and I do feel youth seasons are a good way to increase opportunities for youth to have successful hunts which will increase interest. To the dads that bring the kids along so you can shoot out of season, shame on you for depriving your kid of an opportunity to harvest an animal.

[OutWest]

Maybe we should just do away with the bow only seasons. That would help to avoid "conflict" with the youth hunters :)

[hunter1993ap]

i sure had a good time hunting in the late youth season and dont know why they got rid of that. i would rather that season then what it is now.

[sparkymacker]

Best suggestion so far! Or...maybe you should have to hunt with an actual bow during bow season; not a crossbow?
:mrgreen:


Maybe we should just do away with the bow only seasons. That would help to avoid "conflict" with the youth hunters :)

[markt308]

if i'm not mistaken Sask does not allow crossbows in bow season. let me know if im wrong. back to the topic, I like it the way it is. dont see any need for change. I hunt 5-10 days of every early bow season and i have only ever seen a handful of dads taking their kids out. We have never had any issue with the youth being out there. i think it's great.

[Jimmy4x4]

Jeeze boys. You guys are jumping to conclusions faster than an olympic hurdler. Just read what you've each linked together. Next, bowhunters will be taking over the world. Coach, use a kleenex to clean that drivel off your face before you drool all over your keyboard. Come on. "a bunch of self serving bowhunters"? take off the white cape and conical hat. I civility might rule once Fischer Dude left. Have you ever considered 'someone else's way'? Frickin piranhas.

Kids should in fact have a longer advantaged season than just a 10 day season. And a mentor/parent should have more than just 10 days to give their kids a better shot at taking an animal. As to the allegations hurled at a past HBC member, these are completely unfounded. I understand based on his history. I will tell you that in Region 4 the wildlife section head proposed moving a youth mule deer enhanced odd opportunity to Sept 10 - 30th. It was not proposed by a hunter that we know of. Maybe it's the same thing in region 8?

Stone Sheep Steve, I'd be cautious about what you are proposing in your hunt with your daughter. I know what you are proposing sounds legitimate and what I'm proposing sounds crazy. Check with Jesse (GG) for an email I sent to him just before Christmas, or send me a pm.


yes it IS a bunch of selfish bow hunters that want to take 10 days out of the current youth season. there is no amount of lipstick you can put on that pig that will make it anything else. youth season is from sept 1 to november 10. i find it disgusting that a bunch of adults are so goddamn anxious to kill a deer that they will ban kids from hunting from sept 1 to 9

[Steeleco]

I don't bow hunt but do respect those that do. That said, I've taken advantage of the youth season for both my kids for the last 6 years. The ability to hunt a few days before school starts has been fantastic. I suspect for many kids that maybe the only time they get. My son will be going into grade 12 for his last try at the youth season and once school starts won't have too many free weekends, what with part time work and homework. Leave things as they are IMHO. And for the record, we have NEVER happened across a bow hunter in this or any other season. And no we don't just road hunt. It's a big damn province, there's plenty for everybody.

As to "dad's shooting deer in youth season" I have been there for every one of both my kids animals. Quite a few of them in the youth season. The though of taking one of those deer that got away on these hunts and making my kids live a lie is just wrong. Any other parent that would do that to their kids isn't much of a parent in my eyes!!

[Jimmy4x4]

As to "dad's shooting deer in youth season" I have been there for every one of both my kids animals. Quite a few of them in the youth season. The though of taking one of those deer that got away on these hunts and making my kids live a lie is just wrong. Any other parent that would do that to their kids isn't much of a parent in my eyes!!

that doesnt even happen it was just bullshit fabricated by the guy behind this proposal to try to get his way and ban the youth hunt so he could shot a deer with his traditional bow

[hunter1993ap]

that doesnt even happen it was just bullshit fabricated by the guy behind this proposal to try to get his way and ban the youth hunt so he could shot a deer with his traditional bow
i would think it does happen. not that i'm against the season but i bet it does happen.

[Jimmy4x4]

then there would be convictions for it which there are none. how many 11 year olds can keep a secret like that? none. no investigations and no convictions. it doesnt happen

[hunter1993ap]

then there would be convictions for it which there are none. how many 11 year olds can keep a secret like that? none. no investigations and no convictions. it doesnt happen

i think your in denile. just because people dont get caught doesnt meant things dont happen.

[frenchbar]

yes it IS a bunch of selfish bow hunters that want to take 10 days out of the current youth season. there is no amount of lipstick you can put on that pig that will make it anything else. youth season is from sept 1 to november 10. i find it disgusting that a bunch of adults are so goddamn anxious to kill a deer that they will ban kids from hunting from sept 1 to 9
are u fisher dudes son lol x2 pretty sad realy imo .

[Ambush]

HEY, I got a great idea!!! Let's start calling each other names and pointing fingers and yelling other hunters down. That should solve the whole issue.

Works for most five year olds anyway. :icon_frow

[OutWest]

i sure had a good time hunting in the late youth season and dont know why they got rid of that. i would rather that season then what it is now.

I enjoyed the late youth season as well back when I was eligible for it.

The fact of the matter is that youth/new hunter recruitment should be right near, if not at the top of the priorities for everyone out there. Unfortunately, some people can't put aside personal interests when it comes to what is best for hunting as a whole in this province.

[Steeleco]

i would think it does happen. not that i'm against the season but i bet it does happen.

I've met one guy that openly admitted to it. Even described having the kid shoot a hail-mary into the hill in case anyone heard the shot. I told him what I thought too. If your that desparate for meat, save your gas money and hit a local butcher.

Sorry for the re-direct. Lets hope enough folks in the area can talk sense to the people in charge. My kids are near done their youth hunting years, but there's many a member on here that is waiting for that which I have enjoyed and will not soon forget.

[jrjonesy]

I bowhunt 95% of the time. I'm happy with the regs the way they are. My son got his first buck this labor day weekend. I had my bow along but didn't end up shooting anything (mostly fished after he got his buck). It was an awesome long weekend and that success went a long ways in increasing my sons 'keen-ness' in hunting.

[.300WSMImpact!]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, do away with all "special seasons" and open it up to everyone, regardless of age or what you choose to hunt with.

and yes, I bowhunt too.

x2 i agree with this, giving kids an early chance at deer doesnt help kids want to hunt

[dragonslayer]

x2 Your right Hunter happens all the time .

[jrjonesy]

x2 i agree with this, giving kids an early chance at deer doesnt help kids want to hunt

I disagree. Giving a kid an increased chance at success and thus likely success, does make them want to hunt. We never had youth seasons when I was a kid and I got bored with no success and lost interest. When we moved to an area with more game as a teenager, I decided to give it a go again, was successful and was hooked ever since.

My son has had only a passing interest, but since his success this year, he talks about hunting way more and looks forward to future trips. He's even talking about next years trips.

I don't think it can be argued that giving the kids an early chance at those deer doesn't greatly increase their chance of success.

[Steeleco]

x2 i agree with this, giving kids an early chance at deer doesnt help kids want to hunt

But it does help them want to "KEEP" hunting. There is so much less pressure, the deer are calmer and the kids have longer to get set up for the right shot. The first few years my son never did get the shot, but that fact that he was able to try kept him coming back. Sure he could have done similarly on the 10th, but dependent on where you live and where you hunt, the bush is already a busy place.

I'm not raggin on bow hunters. just the thought of taking something that works, away. And it does work, my family is living proof. How many other 14 year old girls do you know that love to hunt?

[hunter1993ap]

x2 i agree with this, giving kids an early chance at deer doesnt help kids want to hunt

i agree, but i had such a good experience hunting in the youth season, it would be hipocritical of me to want to get rid of it now that it doesnt apply to me. it doesnt bother me at all if it stays. there are so many seasons and opertunities it really doesnt matter.

[.300WSMImpact!]

I disagree. Giving a kid an increased chance at success and thus likely success, does make them want to hunt. We never had youth seasons when I was a kid and I got bored with no success and lost interest. When we moved to an area with more game as a teenager, I decided to give it a go again, was successful and was hooked ever since.

My son has had only a passing interest, but since his success this year, he talks about hunting way more and looks forward to future trips. He's even talking about next years trips.

I don't think it can be argued that giving the kids an early chance at those deer doesn't greatly increase their chance of success.


Kids are simpler with this, if an adult or mentor were to take them out, that experience with someone they look up to is what is gonna bring them back not the fact they got out earlier

[frenchbar]

realy now! WITF would anyone want to rid of a youth season besides a ' its all mine greedy attitude ' hunters that think that way should be ashamed of themselfs .

[BigfishCanada]

There should be a youth season forever, kids should get a better chance, they are kids, I have been going to a youth hunt taking kids , and many are now men for over 10 years. Kids take more time to get the scope on the deer, deer aren't spooked yet. Kids getting an early chance, does get them into hunting way more. If you disagree than you haven't taken a kid hunting during youth season. BOW hunters have proposed this before, hopefully it gets thrown out like before

[Stone Sheep Steve]

then there would be convictions for it which there are none. how many 11 year olds can keep a secret like that? none. no investigations and no convictions. it doesnt happen

I know if I tried shooting a buck for my daughter, she'd put herself up for adoption....or I'd end up getting the butt end of a rifle to the side of the head.

SSS

[Jelvis]

I thought hunters wanted the same regulations for everyone that hunts? All the same, no special seasons for anyone, allll equal, at least that's what everyone was saying, no special seasons, all the same??????
Jp lol .. Hah? Got yah on this one Haha

[Wild one]

that doesnt even happen it was just bullshit fabricated by the guy behind this proposal to try to get his way and ban the youth hunt so he could shot a deer with his traditional bow

Sorry but it does happen but if you don't want to believe that fine

As I said I have no problem with kids hunting during bow season and I will most likely use it for my own son in the next 2 years.

Yes I hunt almost bow only but it is rare if I do so during bow season so it don't matter to me if it is even there.

And I did not realize this would shorten youth season as I thought it was still only Sept 1-9

[coach]

I have had no problem with kids hunting with rifle during Sept 1-9. The only issue I have seen with this season is dads using there kids so they can hunt with a rifle.

I haven't seen a lot of this - although it may occasionally occur. However, I have noticed quite a few crossbow hunters driving around in trucks or on quads with their bows cocked. Not sure we want to start changing seasons because of a few bad apples.

[hunter1993ap]

I haven't seen a lot of this - although it may occasionally occur. However, I have noticed quite a few crossbow hunters driving around in trucks or on quads with their bows cocked. Not sure we want to start changing seasons because of a few bad apples.
ya because we would have none. loaded crossbows, rifles all happen.

[Wild one]

I haven't seen a lot of this - although it may occasionally occur. However, I have noticed quite a few crossbow hunters driving around in trucks or on quads with their bows cocked. Not sure we want to start changing seasons because of a few bad apples.

I have a bigger problem with guys using there kid to poach deer than a idiot with a cocked crossbow but both are wrong.

Keep fishing

[jrjonesy]

Kids are simpler with this, if an adult or mentor were to take them out, that experience with someone they look up to is what is gonna bring them back not the fact they got out earlier

I didn't say getting out earlier keeps them coming back, I said success keeps them coming back. It just so happens that in a lot of this province, that first early season gives the kids a LOT higher chance of experiencing success.
On the other hand I have a nephew who extremely keen about hunting. He has had success BUT if he hadn't he would still be extremely keen about it. You have to accept though that not all kids are like this and many need that taste of success to get them hooked. Kids are experiencing a ton of different activiities as they grow up, they aren't all just naturally drawn to hunting.

[goatdancer]

What are the so-called conflicts? Any examples? Or just a bunch of bitchers?

[bcfarmer]

I don't even know where to start on this. One thing I have to say....boys look hard in the mirror before making some of these ridiculous accusations. I am the current President of K-CSA so I kinda have an inside and accurate account of what has transpired here. To ease some of the more ( for lack of a better term ) ignorant comments posted here I will give you all a time line.
1. Resolutions for the BCWF convention were solicited from the regional clubs in Nov.
2 A member of K-CSA put forth a potential resolution to be considered because of what he considered were safety hazards with the season. ( he backed it up with personal experience and examples) This gentleman has zero ill will towards youth, it was, in his mind for safety reasons. ( you will have to take my word on that) NO IT WAS NOT AGGIEHUNTER/RAINWATER for those of you so quick to sling mud.
3. The resolution was debated, amended, and defeated at the club level. ( end of story so we thought).
4 At our recent REGULATIONS meeting, it was discovered that Region 8 had included it with the other proposed regulation changes from other clubs. ( It never left our club as a provincial resolution or proposed regulation change)
The origin of how it got to Region 8 is still unknown. Region 8 was requested to retract the proposal as it was not from K-CSA and goes against all that K-CSA has worked towards regarding youth seasons. To date, this has not been done.

I know it is early Jan. but come on you guys, this mud slinging and accusations are not even close to being called for.

bcf

[.300WSMImpact!]

I thought hunters wanted the same regulations for everyone that hunts? All the same, no special seasons for anyone, allll equal, at least that's what everyone was saying, no special seasons, all the same??????
Jp lol .. Hah? Got yah on this one Haha

exactly one law for all, but I am not being sarcastic

[Lillypuff]

We should be doing everything we can to encourage more youth. I do not care what it takes to get more kids involved. Just do it. If parents or gaurdians do the shooting and ask the child to lie then that would be very low.

[dana]

I have been taking part in the early youth season with my kids for the last 6 seasons. This past season was the only time I ever ran into another group of hunters, and yes they were bowhunters who also had rifles because they were also hunting bears. Hmmm, jump to the conclusions boys. ;)

[Gateholio]

I have been taking part in the early youth season with my kids for the last 6 seasons. This past season was the only time I ever ran into another group of hunters, and yes they were bowhunters who also had rifles because they were also hunting bears. Hmmm, jump to the conclusions boys. ;)

So there are bear hunters with rifles but somehow the kids are the problem? :?

[buck nash]

i would think it does happen. not that i'm against the season but i bet it does happen.

I would be stunned to learn that it happens often if at all. If you were a parent I'm sure you'd understand that there is nothing more satisfying than being a part of your kids achieving a landmark like that. I think steelco nailed it in his post.

[hunter1993ap]

I would be stunned to learn that it happens often if at all. If you were a parent I'm sure you'd understand that there is nothing more satisfying than being a part of your kids achieving a landmark like that. I think steelco nailed it in his post.

for sure it would be a land mark. and i agree it probably doesnt happen often.

[coach]

I have been taking part in the early youth season with my kids for the last 6 seasons. This past season was the only time I ever ran into another group of hunters, and yes they were bowhunters who also had rifles because they were also hunting bears. Hmmm, jump to the conclusions boys. ;)

Hmmmmm... That's a tough one, Dana.. Bears are open with a rifle during bow season for deer?? People could get hurt. Better get bear season changed to bow only.

[J_T]

I don't even know where to start on this. One thing I have to say....boys look hard in the mirror before making some of these ridiculous accusations. I am the current President of K-CSA so I kinda have an inside and accurate account of what has transpired here. To ease some of the more ( for lack of a better term ) ignorant comments posted here I will give you all a time line.
1. Resolutions for the BCWF convention were solicited from the regional clubs in Nov.
2 A member of K-CSA put forth a potential resolution to be considered because of what he considered were safety hazards with the season. ( he backed it up with personal experience and examples) This gentleman has zero ill will towards youth, it was, in his mind for safety reasons. ( you will have to take my word on that) NO IT WAS NOT AGGIEHUNTER/RAINWATER for those of you so quick to sling mud.
3. The resolution was debated, amended, and defeated at the club level. ( end of story so we thought).
4 At our recent REGULATIONS meeting, it was discovered that Region 8 had included it with the other proposed regulation changes from other clubs. ( It never left our club as a provincial resolution or proposed regulation change)
The origin of how it got to Region 8 is still unknown. Region 8 was requested to retract the proposal as it was not from K-CSA and goes against all that K-CSA has worked towards regarding youth seasons. To date, this has not been done.

I know it is early Jan. but come on you guys, this mud slinging and accusations are not even close to being called for.

bcf Thanks for taking the time to provide some background. It will help to ease the judgements.

In truth gang, bowhunting is a great pursuit and it is different. There is no denying it is a different pursuit than one with a rifle. The approach to the hunt is different, the objective is often different. Bow seasons, have their place. We can all wish for harmony, but what is true harmony? One season for all? I don't think so. Managing for the lowest common denominator? No. We can manage a variety of seasons, for a variety of user groups. It isn't just bowhunters and rifle hunters, each hunter has their own style. Real harmony is where we can respect each other's pursuits and not judge the hunter who switches it up, hunts with a bow, hunts from a quad, takes long rifle shots, looks for big horns, or climbs every mountain.

I find anytime I hear of a new proposal, it is not important to consider what a hunter might be losing, but more important to consider how this change can be a good thing. On the surface, to the shallow thinkers, this proposal reeks of selfishness, denying youth a chance, but the reality could be something quite different.

I have numerous personal experiences where bowhunting and rifle hunting is in fact a safety issue. However it's probably a risk I am willing to take and therefore not worried about it, but it is real. This past year I was moving in on three bull elk, all legal, all bugling and three guys shot them from 500 yards away. I'd just spent 1 1/2 hours working carefully to get close. I'm not making any comment about their actions, just stating a fact.

Bowhunters never want to deny youth an opportunity for increased chances. So in the spirit of Fischer Dude, let's let that die.

[Jelvis]

Should be using only traditional weapons too, remember that one lol, not so easy now eh?
Only rifles cuz bow and arrow are not traditional for most, how does it feel? It bugs all of us so we won't say it again.
.. No special seasons, and only traditional weapons, sorry lol, I couldn't resist the hypoc -rah C's
And you guyce are fighting among your selves for different special seasons on these ones. Haha I luv it. :twisted:

[boxhitch]

The submissions for 'proposals' are to be discussed Saturday , presenters have to have supporting background , then the vote.
Will soon know if this one sees the light of day or not.

[coach]

I find anytime I hear of a new proposal, it is not important to consider what a hunter might be losing, but more important to consider how this change can be a good thing. On the surface, to the shallow thinkers, this proposal reeks of selfishness, denying youth a chance, but the reality could be something quite different.

I guess I'm a shallow thinker, JT. Region 8 already has the most generous bow only seasons in the province. I enjoy taking advantage of those opportunities but fail to see any reason to take 10 days away from the kids. Region 3 only has a 9 day bow only season - but if this proposal goes through (I honestly don't think it has a chance) those of us with youth hunters in the family will all be forced to head that way during the first 10 days of September. Doesn't sound great for the R3 bow hunters.

[Jelvis]

I thought people wanted region 3 and 8 to be in harmony with the same seasons for mules and whitetails?
.. some mixed up hunters or just lot's of different thinking for sure .. I guess everything the same won't work?

[allan]

I once spent three hours in the wk to paddle down a river to get to a meadow on the down wind side of a river meadow in the dark so that I could have an oportunity to set up an ambush on some elk that were hanging out there. The road access was only a short 800-1000m walk from the up wind side. Watched as the heard of Elk stampeded past on the far side and out of there for good that morning by a Youth hunter walking right down the middle of a huge open meadow spooking everything down wind and in eyeshot. I wish that that youth hunter would have had a better adult to hunt with because if they would have had even half a brain they would have been able to cut the kids tag.
I had a nice paddle out, wishing the whole way that kids could have more chances at stuff like that, maybe they should make youth season start in the summer so kids can hunt while not in schoool? And kids that havent cut their first tag should be able to shoot almost anything too.

[aggiehunter]

havent' been to a KCSA meeting forever...I'm sure someone from that group will respond to you guys and the tyraid of unfounded claims....it won't change my personal opinion on what BOS stands for however....can....opener.....worms.......

[bcfarmer]

What are you guys not getting. There is NO proposal. Therefore it can not go through!! Region 8 will be removing this from the list of proposed regulation changes. Had it not been for a "misplaced" piece of paper, this would never have seen the light of day. Every body needs to relax a little bit.

bcf

[aggiehunter]

it would be nice to see the late mule deer BOS start on Nov. 11th....maybe that would ease the pain that some might be having....thanks Farmer for speaking the truth....

[coach]

What are you guys not getting. There is NO proposal. Therefore it can not go through!! Region 8 will be removing this from the list of proposed regulation changes. Had it not been for a "misplaced" piece of paper, this would never have seen the light of day. Every body needs to relax a little bit.

bcf

Thanks, BCF, for the clarification. It wasn't totally clear from your previous post that the proposal didn't actually happen. Kudos to you and your club for having the important discussion and continuing to support the early youth season in R8.

[greybark]

So much egg on so many faces !!!! I would consider delete or apologize but that wont even happen.......
Cheers

[hunter1947]

Just got an e-mail with the proposed reg changes this one seems a bit odd:

Change youth Deer seasons to September 11 to 30. Avoids conflict between youth rifle hunters and archery hunters Proposed by K-CSA


I like this change will be good for the bow hunters that are out there hunting the first week of Sept...

Firstly Just curious who K-CSA is as I'm not familiar with them. As to "conflicts" deal with it, the woods belong to all of us.

Kirby


Not good for the youth hunters ,,,if this change goes through this will be good for the bow hunters that are out there the first week of Sept and believe me there are lots of bow hunters out there the first of Sept you would think that management would move the youth season up earler if there is an issue on the Sept first opening ???? Say the last week of Aug ???....

[Jimmy4x4]

So much egg on so many faces !!!! I would consider delete or apologize but that wont even happen.......
Cheers

i doubt J_T will apologize for wanting to shorten youth season by 10 days so that adults can bow hunt

[J_T]

i doubt J_T will apologize for wanting to shorten youth season by 10 days so that adults can bow hunt

Hey, if everyone would pay attention and simply do as I dictate, we'd be fine. LOL

[greybark]

i doubt J_T will apologize for wanting to shorten youth season by 10 days so that adults can bow hunt


J-T has been an advocate for extensive Youth Seasons for years .

[bugler]

Hey, if everyone would pay attention and simply do as I dictate, we'd be fine. LOL

Ha ha that's along the lines of what I always think when people start saying we shouldn't argue about such things, that we should all stick together. I think that sounds real good, you all start agreeing with how I want to do it and we'll have nothing to discuss (argue!) about.

[Onesock]

Actually this thread really does show how all hunters are supposed to get along. hahaha. Didn't take long for all the lead slingers to jump all over bowhunters. so much for one big happy family. The majority of guys that posted on here should hide their heads in the shit piles outside their house. This is almost funny.

[fireguy]

proposals are just that proposals. these have been brought up at the club level, debated there and the ones that made it through that stage have been passed on to the next level to be debated once again. This one slipped through the cracks at the club level by the sounds of it and by the sounds of it will be removed before the next level of debate happens. I was a little surprised when I read the proposal but knowing the hoops it still would have to jump through I was pretty sure it wouldn't make it any farther.

Recruitment, retention and opportunity are three words that came up quite a bit at the club level when we were discussing the regulations and any proposed changes. there was lots of input and lots of ideas and lots of things didn't make the cut to get passed on to the next level, some did and they will be discussed and debated in a larger group with different opinions and some might make the cut, others won't. The point is the people that meet in kitchens, living rooms, clubhouses as members of local clubs to discuss their ideas and hopefully make things better with reguards to the three words that I mentioned above shouldn't be just dismissed and their ideas might be good, bad , or indifferent but at least they are being discussed.

[coach]

Some good points on this thread. I'll admit my initial post was inflammatory. I did not mean to categorize all bow hunters as self serving. I accepted the initial post on this thread as being accurate and made an assumption that in order to get beyond the club level, it would have taken a group of people to support the concept that youth season conflicts with bow season to the point that 10 days of youth season should be taken away.

I am a bow hunter, I hunt with a rifle and my daughter is a youth hunter. I am also a member of a club and feel there is urgency to recruit young people into our sport - therefor I will be donating my time this year to assisting with the development of youth programs. I am strong in my belief that hunters should be working together to ensure the health of the environment, of animal populations and the great pastime of hunting will continue. Those who wish to have seasons changed - purely for their own benefit live by a value system that clashes with what I believe.

I apologize to those who share a love of bow hunting but also understand our sport faces an uncertain future and realize youth need to be encouraged to get started. For those who are truly selfish and can't accept the fact that sharing the woods is a reality - I have little positive to say, but this time I'll bite my tongue.

[Brez]

I AM against people who propose regulations for purely selfish social reasons though. Unfortunately (some) bow hunters often put themselves into that category. .

My God!....as do some hunters who use horses, "trophy" hunters, "meat" hunters, dissabled hunters, road hunters...........
Have you not gone to any meetings on hunting proposals? Of course everyone looks after their own interests. Who else will? In the end, It's the resourse that should be looked at first and formost - but that's not our decision.
For the record, I did not need a youth season to get my hunting oportunities in and neither did my two sons - and they had no problems being successful.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

My God!....as do some hunters who use horses, "trophy" hunters, "meat" hunters, dissabled hunters, road hunters...........
Have you not gone to any meetings on hunting proposals? Of course everyone looks after their own interests. Who else will? In the end, It's the resourse that should be looked at first and formost - but that's not our decision.
For the record, I did not need a youth season to get my hunting oportunities in and neither did my two sons - and they had no problems being successful.

People looking after there own interests was one of the important factors in the decline of resident hunters. Clubs were being lead by hardcore hunters that pushed their own agends which lead to further and further restrictions where they weren't needed
Thank goodness we now have people at the helm that look at the "big picture" and push for science based management.
I agree....we do need to look after our resources....based on science and the best available numbers.

SSS

[coach]

.. And many of us don't need bow only season to successfully fill a deer tag. :-D

You are 100% correct, Brez, in that the resource must come first. Can the region 8 deer population handle the current youth seasons? Is a change necessary for conservation? Can youth an bow seasons continue to co-exist without imperiling the resource?

[bighornbob]

My God!....as do some hunters who use horses, "trophy" hunters, "meat" hunters, dissabled hunters, road hunters...........
.

Actually only a few of those do, never seen a meat hunter try and tell trophy hunter you can shoot a big buck. Or a road hunter asking for legislation to ban all hiking and walking while hunting.

The issue that gets everyones hackles up is when one group (regardless of what issue it is) tries to impose their thoughts and ideaologies on another group. It would be like me starting a 2WD Car Only hunting group. The group believes using a 4WD or quad is an unfair advantage and we prefer the challenge of getting a Toyota Corolla through a cross ditch to get to the hunting grounds. So we ask for a seperate season when only a 2WD vehicle can be used because its unfair when the 4x4 pass us and they are able to go more places then my 2WD car. Plus its also dangerous with all that traction and flying gravel pelting my car when the 4X4 passes me. Also we are not discrimminating against anyone, because anyone that can afford an expensive 4x4 or quad can surely afford a used Toyota Corolla. Because of those reasons and there are a bunch of us we should get our own hunting season.

Do you see how silly that is looks. Could you imagine the uproar that would happen. No one has ever said you cant bowhunt or you are not allowed to shoot a trophy buck. Bowhunters are allowed to hunt during the rifle season, trophy hunters are allowed to shoot trophy bucks during the any buck season, horse hunters are still allowed to use their horses anytime during the hunting season. Like I said its gets everyones hackles up when one group pushes their agenda on everyone else.

BHB

P.S. I hunt with a bow and the girlfriend has a Toyota Corolla so I have all my bases covered:):):)

[Brez]

Actually only a few of those do, never seen a meat hunter try and tell trophy hunter you can shoot a big buck. Or a road hunter asking for legislation to ban all hiking and walking while hunting.

The issue that gets everyones hackles up is when one group (regardless of what issue it is) tries to impose their thoughts and ideaologies on another group. It would be like me starting a 2WD Car Only hunting group. The group believes using a 4WD or quad is an unfair advantage and we prefer the challenge of getting a Toyota Corolla through a cross ditch to get to the hunting grounds. So we ask for a seperate season when only a 2WD vehicle can be used because its unfair when the 4x4 pass us and they are able to go more places then my 2WD car. Plus its also dangerous with all that traction and flying gravel pelting my car when the 4X4 passes me. Also we are not discrimminating against anyone, because anyone that can afford an expensive 4x4 or quad can surely afford a used Toyota Corolla. Because of those reasons and there are a bunch of us we should get our own hunting season.

Do you see how silly that is looks. Could you imagine the uproar that would happen. No one has ever said you cant bowhunt or you are not allowed to shoot a trophy buck. Bowhunters are allowed to hunt during the rifle season, trophy hunters are allowed to shoot trophy bucks during the any buck season, horse hunters are still allowed to use their horses anytime during the hunting season. Like I said its gets everyones hackles up when one group pushes their agenda on everyone else.

BHB

P.S. I hunt with a bow and the girlfriend has a Toyota Corolla so I have all my bases covered:):):)

"And many of us don't need bow only season to successfully fill a deer tag. :grin:

You are 100% correct, Brez, in that the resource must come first. Can the region 8 deer population handle the current youth seasons? Is a change necessary for conservation? Can youth an bow seasons continue to co-exist without imperiling the resource? "

Indeed!
I have anxiously awaited sound game management for decades and am no longer holding my breath. Too many politics now.
I will die happy when game populations, hunter oportunity, and habitat conservation have been maximized. I would like my grandson to have to the oportunities I was fortunate to have.

"and that's all I have to say on that matter"

[greybark]

Some good points on this thread. I'll admit my initial post was inflammatory. I did not mean to categorize all bow hunters as self serving. I accepted the initial post on this thread as being accurate and made an assumption that in order to get beyond the club level, it would have taken a group of people to support the concept that youth season conflicts with bow season to the point that 10 days of youth season should be taken away.

I am a bow hunter, I hunt with a rifle and my daughter is a youth hunter. I am also a member of a club and feel there is urgency to recruit young people into our sport - therefor I will be donating my time this year to assisting with the development of youth programs. I am strong in my belief that hunters should be working together to ensure the health of the environment, of animal populations and the great pastime of hunting will continue. Those who wish to have seasons changed - purely for their own benefit live by a value system that clashes with what I believe.

I apologize to those who share a love of bow hunting but also understand our sport faces an uncertain future and realize youth need to be encouraged to get started. For those who are truly selfish and can't accept the fact that sharing the woods is a reality - I have little positive to say, but this time I'll bite my tongue.

Well posted Coach , I too believe that resourse management comes first but it is the management of the various user groups that complicate things . Despite the numerous and ongoing user requests and lobbying I feel that the Game Management for the most part is well done . Perhaps some of this good management is due to the various requests ( some that seem to benifit small groups )and lobbys of the user groups . With their budget and manpower restraints the Goverment has intergrated game management with user groups rather well and get very little credit for it .
Cheers

[J_T]

Nice to see we pushed through the heat and anger of the initial response and have settled into a more constructive discussion.

I agree with Boxhitch in his post early on, that a proposal is just that, a proposal. Personally, I think it's great when we get lots of innovative proposals from all user groups on the table. Everyone at the table understands the process and those ideas that stand the test of discussion, science and strategic objectives, percolate to the top.


People looking after there own interests was one of the important factors in the decline of resident hunters. Clubs were being lead by hardcore hunters that pushed their own agends which lead to further and further restrictions where they weren't needed
Thank goodness we now have people at the helm that look at the "big picture" and push for science based management.
I agree....we do need to look after our resources....based on science and the best available numbers.

SSS I agree with the science based approach, completely. With every decision I'm involved with, supported in science is the question that dictates proposals moving forward or not. The only concern I have is, when we might be faced with a Government decision maker who (might be science-based) doesn't see hunters as a part of the equation to manage populations and to ensure that hunting opportunity is an objective. It is a risk, and we must keep the 'opportunity' objective pressure on.


Actually only a few of those do, never seen a meat hunter try and tell trophy hunter you can shoot a big buck. Or a road hunter asking for legislation to ban all hiking and walking while hunting.

The issue that gets everyones hackles up is when one group (regardless of what issue it is) tries to impose their thoughts and ideaologies on another group. It would be like me starting a 2WD Car Only hunting group. The group believes using a 4WD or quad is an unfair advantage and we prefer the challenge of getting a Toyota Corolla through a cross ditch to get to the hunting grounds. So we ask for a seperate season when only a 2WD vehicle can be used because its unfair when the 4x4 pass us and they are able to go more places then my 2WD car. Plus its also dangerous with all that traction and flying gravel pelting my car when the 4X4 passes me. Also we are not discrimminating against anyone, because anyone that can afford an expensive 4x4 or quad can surely afford a used Toyota Corolla. Because of those reasons and there are a bunch of us we should get our own hunting season.

Do you see how silly that is looks. Could you imagine the uproar that would happen. No one has ever said you cant bowhunt or you are not allowed to shoot a trophy buck. Bowhunters are allowed to hunt during the rifle season, trophy hunters are allowed to shoot trophy bucks during the any buck season, horse hunters are still allowed to use their horses anytime during the hunting season. Like I said its gets everyones hackles up when one group pushes their agenda on everyone else.

BHB

P.S. I hunt with a bow and the girlfriend has a Toyota Corolla so I have all my bases covered:):):) I used to own a Corolla..... You've raised a good point. Sometimes users get their hackles up when another group makes a proposal. If we think, 'opportunity', and a user group makes a proposal that they feel supports opportunity, there are other users who may take it as a loss of opportunity. This becomes a difficult point in the discussion about what decisions should be made. I feel an example of this is the West Kootenay Elk decision of a couple years ago. There were many hunters who felt taking this off of LEH was not a good idea, yet the proposal was based on science and opportunity. Another example might be; in the event populations drop and a sustainable GOS is not acceptable some would prefer to see a bow season implemented rather than lose the opportunity, yet many would say they prefer LEH as the next step to adjusting from GOS. Yet we can make a case that if opportunity and science are the objectives then a bow season makes more sense, as it will manage populations in a conservative approach and it will continue to maximize opportunity. In my opinion. Hope I didn't get your hackles up.

[Onesock]

If people didn't look after their own interests who would look after them? Years ago the BCWF wouldn't look after bowhunters interests so bow hunters did the only thing they could. Thankfully things have changed a bit and now "hunter opportunity" is the new catch phrase. The bowhunters interests have now allowed many non-bowhunters (x-bows) the opportunity to have a few weeks more of a hunting season. Without the bowhunters chasing these seasons alot of hunters would have a 1 month shorter hunting season. That my friends is a lose of hunting opportunity. Now who wants that? Don't rag on bowhunters!

[Onesock]

PS Thanks JT

[bighornbob]

I used to own a Corolla..... You've raised a good point. Sometimes users get their hackles up when another group makes a proposal. If we think, 'opportunity', and a user group makes a proposal that they feel supports opportunity, there are other users who may take it as a loss of opportunity. This becomes a difficult point in the discussion about what decisions should be made. I feel an example of this is the West Kootenay Elk decision of a couple years ago. There were many hunters who felt taking this off of LEH was not a good idea, yet the proposal was based on science and opportunity. Another example might be; in the event populations drop and a sustainable GOS is not acceptable some would prefer to see a bow season implemented rather than lose the opportunity, yet many would say they prefer LEH as the next step to adjusting from GOS. Yet we can make a case that if opportunity and science are the objectives then a bow season makes more sense, as it will manage populations in a conservative approach and it will continue to maximize opportunity. In my opinion. Hope I didn't get your hackles up.

I agree with you but when ones oppurtunity limits anothers, thats when people get their panties in a knot. In your example of the west Kootenay elk season, if the population dropped to where a GOS season was not sustainable and had to go back to the harvest of around 6-10 bulls. What is fair?? An Archery only season would only maybe kill a few bulls (meets management policies) but excludes the gun hunters. An LEH hunt would be open to everyone regardless of what weapon you choose. A combination of say a archery season and 6-8 LEH tags at the same time should make everyone happy, should it not. All the bowhunters could hunt the season and the gun hunters get their handfull of LEH tags that they had before. I would be all for it a season like that. Oppurtunity for everyone.

Not sure, but since Oppurtunity seems to be the key word have the Archery clubs looked at seasons like a Archery Only for bighorn sheep from Sept 1-9 or a Bull moose archery season before the gun season starts. If they have been proposed what have been the results or have they not been looked at?

BHB

[steel_ram]

There'll be the odd bad apple that will use their kid to get a head start, same as there are those that shoot game on there families LEH tags. Waddaya do? ruin it for everybody?

Archert only seasons aren't fair, not everyone was born a bowhunter.;)

[pantsandbelt]

Awesome! A bunch of self serving bow hunters making a proposal to take opportunity away from kids. Hunters battling hunters. My way is better than your way. I'm more important than everyone else. It's a ridiculous attitude that does nothing for the future of our sport. Disgusting!

Agreed Coach the youth are are future to hunting don't start them young and give them time they will lose interest

[Wild one]

In my opinion bow seasons are not being utilized enough as a way to give hunter opportunity in BC. With crossbows being legal in archery season it is not a hard for most hunters to utilize these seasons. It may be harder to take game but to be able to get out there and try no.

Personally I think a few less LEH and add some more bow seasons would be better than sitting around hoping for a draw. It would also give more hunters a reason to try bowhunting.

BHB You mention an archery sheep season one was proposed for region 4 for Nov and was shot down. A fullcurl ram Nov archery season that would have had little impact in my opinion.

As for moose I would like to see more of what is done in region 6 they have archery moose seasons that runs for part of the LEH season. I know locals up there that are happy to use the bow season when they don't draw a tag.

If there was less hunters who looked at archery seasons as taking away from there hunt and instead used them to increase there opportunity there may not be the issues you see. With crossbows and modern compounds any hunter who wanted to use these season can.

BC is way behind when it comes to utilizing archery seasons compared to the rest of North America.

But most here in BC don't see how archery seasons applied properly can increase opportunity and instead look at it as bowhunter wanting them out of the bush or they think bowhunters will kill all the game before they get a chance(yes I have been told this :roll:)

This is just the ramblings of a greedy bowhunter so take how ever you want

[J_T]

I agree with you but when ones oppurtunity limits anothers, thats when people get their panties in a knot. In your example of the west Kootenay elk season, if the population dropped to where a GOS season was not sustainable and had to go back to the harvest of around 6-10 bulls. What is fair?? An Archery only season would only maybe kill a few bulls (meets management policies) but excludes the gun hunters. An LEH hunt would be open to everyone regardless of what weapon you choose. A combination of say a archery season and 6-8 LEH tags at the same time should make everyone happy, should it not. All the bowhunters could hunt the season and the gun hunters get their handfull of LEH tags that they had before. I would be all for it a season like that. Oppurtunity for everyone.

Not sure, but since Oppurtunity seems to be the key word have the Archery clubs looked at seasons like a Archery Only for bighorn sheep from Sept 1-9 or a Bull moose archery season before the gun season starts. If they have been proposed what have been the results or have they not been looked at?

BHB
Right, I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would suggest the statement is 'when one's opportunity is perceived to limit anothers'... This is exactly where the discussions become difficult. I'm not sure I would agree with LEH being an opportunity. The opportunity to submit an LEH application is not the same as an opportunity to hunt. I like your idea of combinations. It's not the easiest 'sell', but it is the compromise required to meet the majority of requirements. I would only add, that anyone's ability to pick up a bow and learn to hunt with it is no different than a person's ability to pick up a rifle and hunt with it. Yes, most of us started as rifle hunters, but gun regulations over the past number of years have made the bow the easier path to the hunt. Granted a bow does not work in all hunting situations, but we're all hunters, making weapons choices all the time.

Re archery and sheep seasons.... ooohhhh yeah, been there. Rather than upset the normal GOS openings, we've asked for 4 days at the end of the GOS. No luck yet. In part, because sheep can become vulnerable quickly at the end of the season and even 4 days is perceived as a risk. As for an early archery sheep season, hardcore sheep hunters don't want anyone disturbing their sheep prior to the GOS.

[Brez]

Page nine all good stuff. Bighornbob, sometimes a few have to lose a little so that many gain a little. Gotta balance the scales - with conservation and sustainability (ain't that a good word) in mind.

[Elkhound]

I know if I tried shooting a buck for my daughter, she'd put herself up for adoption....or I'd end up getting the butt end of a rifle to the side of the head.

SSS

Had to laugh at this. My daughter and my wife would never hunt with me again if I shot their animal. lol

[bugler]

Re archery and sheep seasons.... ooohhhh yeah, been there. Rather than upset the normal GOS openings, we've asked for 4 days at the end of the GOS. No luck yet. In part, because sheep can become vulnerable quickly at the end of the season and even 4 days is perceived as a risk. As for an early archery sheep season, hardcore sheep hunters don't want anyone disturbing their sheep prior to the GOS.

Yes, some sheep hunter's don't want us bowhunters running around moving the rams over the mountain before the real opening day. They've made that quite clear (sounds like protecting ones own interest from my side of the table). That's ok, sheep season is long and we're free to bowhunt during gun season, but there is no conservation reason to limit that opportunity.

In Region 4 immy moose are open to bowhunting from Sep 1 until the gun season closes, and if you have a draw for any bull that also opens Sep 1 for bow, so that's pretty good extra season. Too bad there are so few available to hunt!!!

I think JT has it right. Most bowhunters see opportunity to lengthen existing seasons with archery. If it is determined by the managers that WK elk cannot sustain an EK like season then why not make a longer bow season if GOS has to be shortened or go back to LEH. I'm not the biologist, I'm not saying harvest needs to be reduced. I'm saying if the scientists say it has to be then let's figure out how to get back some opportunity from what might be taken away.

BHB, Alberta does just what you are talking about with the combo idea. They have long open bow seasons with LEH only for rifle for most Mule deer and Moose hunting now. From my (somewhat biased, I'll admit, having bowhunted there) opinion this is a pretty good solution where GOS isn't sustainable.

Back to the original post, I don't believe that closing youth opportunity would make a majority vote in any room full of hunters these days, even if it was a room full of just bowhunters.

[J_T]

Page nine all good stuff. Bighornbob, sometimes a few have to lose a little so that many gain a little. Gotta balance the scales - with conservation and sustainability (ain't that a good word) in mind.
Page 9? Even Jelvis' hallucinations?

[coach]

In my opinion bow seasons are not being utilized enough as a way to give hunter opportunity in BC. With crossbows being legal in archery season it is not a hard for most hunters to utilize these seasons. It may be harder to take game but to be able to get out there and try no.

Personally I think a few less LEH and add some more bow seasons would be better than sitting around hoping for a draw. It would also give more hunters a reason to try bowhunting.

BHB You mention an archery sheep season one was proposed for region 4 for Nov and was shot down. A fullcurl ram Nov archery season that would have had little impact in my opinion.

As for moose I would like to see more of what is done in region 6 they have archery moose seasons that runs for part of the LEH season. I know locals up there that are happy to use the bow season when they don't draw a tag.

If there was less hunters who looked at archery seasons as taking away from there hunt and instead used them to increase there opportunity there may not be the issues you see. With crossbows and modern compounds any hunter who wanted to use these season can.

BC is way behind when it comes to utilizing archery seasons compared to the rest of North America.

But most here in BC don't see how archery seasons applied properly can increase opportunity and instead look at it as bowhunter wanting them out of the bush or they think bowhunters will kill all the game before they get a chance(yes I have been told this :roll:)

This is just the ramblings of a greedy bowhunter so take how ever you want

Excellent post, Wild One.



I think JT has it right. Most bowhunters see opportunity to lengthen existing seasons with archery. If it is determined by the managers that WK elk cannot sustain an EK like season then why not make a longer bow season if GOS has to be shortened or go back to LEH. I'm not the biologist, I'm not saying harvest needs to be reduced. I'm saying if the scientists say it has to be then let's figure out how to get back some opportunity from what might be taken away.

BHB, Alberta does just what you are talking about with the combo idea. They have long open bow seasons with LEH only for rifle for most Mule deer and Moose hunting now. From my (somewhat biased, I'll admit, having bowhunted there) opinion this is a pretty good solution where GOS isn't sustainable.

Back to the original post, I don't believe that closing youth opportunity would make a majority vote in any room full of hunters these days, even if it was a room full of just bowhunters.

Good points too, Bugler.

The aggravating part of this "proposal" (I realize now that the suggestion never actually made it to proposal stage) was that taking away 10 days from the youth season in order to alleviate alleged "conflict" with bow hunters flies in the face of science based management and does not fit with long term "opportunity" or growth of the hunting community. It isn't a new concept dreamed up to enhance opportunity. It was designed to create less "competition" in the first 10 days of September.

To share an experience: One September 1st morning a few years ago, I was in the process of stalking some deer with my bow, when I heard a truck rolling up the road toward me. A quick glance confirmed it was a father with his two sons - out to enjoy youth season. I immediately moved to where they could see me - then waved them up to where I'd seen the deer. Rather than blaming them for potentially ruining my stalk - I alerted them to the presence of the deer and tried to help get them into position to make a shot. Things didn't work out - and the three bucks I'd been watching all moved out of range and out of sight. I wished the kids luck and we went our separate ways. Later that evening, I thought about what had happened. I realized I'd possibly put myself in danger by trying to stalk within 30 yards or less of a deer while kids were out hunting with rifles. What if they'd seen the deer and didn't notice me in my camo? Potentially the situation could have been bad. I really would have been happy to see the kids succeed and, naturally, I would have been really happy to kill the 4 point I was after.

What I took from the situation wasn't the thought that the youth season was creating a conflict. I realized my choice of hunting locations was poor one. I was hunting way too close to the road. It was my fault - not the fault of the regulations. In subsequent years, I changed my own strategy.

I welcome new opportunities that open up for bow only seasons - but not at the expense of others.

[coach]

Where was it published that this change make take effect? I know it is a lot easier to convince the wife to let our son hunt before school starts rather than pulling him out the odd day.

Post #50 explains it. This change won't happen. A fair amount of hubbub about nothing - but a healthy conversation nonetheless. :-D

[HarryToolips]

Right on they need to restrict that season a bit anyway....

[knockturnal]

Where was it published that this change make take effect? I know it is a lot easier to convince the wife to let our son hunt before school starts rather than pulling him out the odd day.


That was one of the best things that I looked forward to during hunting season when I was younger. My dad would get the odd day off here and there and would take me out of school for the day to go spend time out in the bush with him. To this day, those are some of the fondest memories I have of hunting.

[Ambush]

Keep in mind that an archery only season is open to ANY BC hunter with a valid licence and tags. No more restrictive than a shotgun only season or area. The stipulation only restricts the weapon type not who can hunt.

I'm for any open season or opportunity that is sustainable and promotes the sport.

[pipe-it]

Mabey we should just stop youth season to acomidate bow hunters/wtf

[Ambush]

Mabey we should just stop youth season to acomidate bow hunters/wtf

Maybe we should let ONLY youth hunt for the entire month of September, gun or bow.

[Wild one]

Maybe we should let ONLY youth hunt for the entire month of September, gun or bow.

Youth only deer season for the month of Sept I could live with that :mrgreen:

[aggiehunter]

Well we're still talking about something that didn't happen...so...one must realize that the early Youth Hunt is relatively new...it's not as engrained as you all would think...it did come at the expense of the BOS...BOW ONLY SEASON....but yes... no one that has a vote is gonna ask for it to go back to just BOS...but Coach there are young youth bowhunters who should also be offered a chance in the early BOS to try their hands at sneaking in on an unshaken deer...the bowhunter ranks deserve to be filled as well as the rifle ranks...it is very obvious to many that the youth rifle season has had an effect on the bowhunt...what I think we all need to see is actually how many new youths we have recruited with this season. Also if anyone has any stats on any other state or province that allows rifle hunting for the same species during a bowonly season I would be interested. Shook many a young persons hand after getting one in the Youth season....go figure hey.

[coach]

Shook many a young persons hand after getting one in the Youth season....go figure hey.

Your post is confusing, Aggie.. Are you saying that you've seen youth hunters successfully take deer with archery equipment during the youth season?

[HarryToolips]

I've heard many complaints here in the OK about the youth season due to the dads shooting the deer. I don't have a prob with giving opportunity to the kids first, just play by the rules. Heck, I've heard many knowledgeable hunters here complain about overharvest during the mule deer "any buck" season, and they think that they should make the "any buck" season only for youth/senior and make the rest of us hunt 4 pt or greater..Due to the high number of hunters around here it sounds like a good idea to me...

[one-shot-wonder]

And I have heard many knowledgeable hunters on here recite that antler point restrictions don't make more deer or larger bucks. So explain why we should change the any buck season for youth/senior only?

High number of hunters it what we are striving for......remember recruitment is key.

HW quite distinctive.....

[coach]

I heard - slow turnaround time, high prices and the sudden popularity of DIY euro mounts has taken more of a toll on the taxidermy business than the youth or any buck seasons ever could.. :-D

[hunter1947]

LOL maybe to many wild life management hunters and CO are hunting the bow season and have had youths spoil the hunt on them LOL..

[steel_ram]

Anyone can bow hunt during archery season. You don't have to be a FN, a youth, senior or a lottery winner etc. Anyone! No prejudice! The lower effectiveness, lower harvest of the tool allows for a broader season and opportunity for everyone.

Not sure of the reason behind kiddy season. Is this an conservations measure providing an opportunity where a general open season would overharvest the prescribed kill? Is it to prime the deer for GOS so they aren't hanging around the roads so much for lazy roadhunters to slaughter?

[wsm]

I have had no problem with kids hunting with rifle during Sept 1-9. The only issue I have seen with this season is dads using there kids so they can hunt with a rifle.

The Dads taking out there kids so the kid can hunt I have no problem with. Most often Dads taking out there kid seem to stay close to the road or road hunt. Most often I sit or hike so they don't bother me

Personally it looks like the kids will be getting a longer season so I can't see the change hurting them. But I bet anti bowhunters will fight it just to fight with bowhunters

i have seen this repeatedly . this is a huge problem .IMO

[dana]

It is also epidemic with bow hunters packing rifles using bear hunting as an excuse. ;) How many so-called archery kills are actually rifle kills???

[Jelvis]

......................Houston

[GoatGuy]

I've heard many complaints here in the OK about the youth season due to the dads shooting the deer. I don't have a prob with giving opportunity to the kids first, just play by the rules. Heck, I've heard many knowledgeable hunters here complain about overharvest during the mule deer "any buck" season, and they think that they should make the "any buck" season only for youth/senior and make the rest of us hunt 4 pt or greater..Due to the high number of hunters around here it sounds like a good idea to me...

For being such a new hunter you sure seem to be in the loop..... particularly on the management side of things.

What would moving to a 4 pt season do for deer?

[Wild one]

It is also epidemic with bow hunters packing rifles using bear hunting as an excuse. ;) How many so-called archery kills are actually rifle kills???

I would not doubt there are some that do this but all it would take is 1 look at the animal to bust them.

Broad heads leave way different damage than a bullet

[aggiehunter]

Coach...no I haven't...but run into many local kids that shot them with rifles during the BOS and shook their hands...hope that clears up the confusion.

[aggiehunter]

Steelram...probably the same reason my FN friends are always asking me when the white guy rifle season starts....I still tell them Sept. 10th...go figure hey...I guess we could always call BOS something else.

[aggiehunter]

arent bears just OPEN...so WTF you carry doesn't really matter then...does it!

[coach]

Coach...no I haven't...but run into many local kids that shot them with rifles during the BOS and shook their hands...hope that clears up the confusion.

Good on ya, Aggie! My daughter is keen on learning archery this year. Hopefully she'll be able to make use of her bow during the first week of September. Looking forward to her hunting with a bow while her step brother gets his first crack at taking a buck with a rifle.

[dana]

I do the gutless method on all my game. Seldom ever bring an animal out whole. Not that difficult for a bowhunter to do this too. Front quarters, rear quarters, backstraps, neck. A good shot in behind the shoulder and there is zero evidence of gunshot versus arrow. So, many say that there are dads killing their kid's deer in youth season but it is too far of a stretch to think that bowhunters are using rifles during bowseason because they have bear tags in their pockets???? Hell a bowhunter using a rifle doesn't even need a bear tag in their pocket as a excuse, as coyotes and wolves are open at the same time too. You don't think this happens??? If you are jumping to stupid conclusions that youth season needs to end because of the possibility of abuse by some unethical dads, can you not come to the same conclusion that the bow season needs to end because of the possibility of abuse by some unethical bowhunters?????

[steel_ram]

It is also epidemic with bow hunters packing rifles using bear hunting as an excuse. ;) How many so-called archery kills are actually rifle kills???

Does this actually happen at epidemic levels? Years back some guy around here shot a bull elk (which he had a draw for) in the bow only season with his rifle. Tried to make it look like he'd arrowed it but failed big time and was nailed. I guess technically there's no law against you being out with a rifle regardless of season. Protection against hoards of evil wolves or hunting coyotes.

[dana]

Of course it doesn't happen in epidemic levels. That is the point. Somehow some think that the rare possibility of a unethical dad is justification of the end of youth seasons. Same logic is it not???? If you accept the one then you better accept the other because both are possibilities are they not??? And we all know ending a season does not deter the unethical. What's to stop an unethical dad from shooting a kid's tag in the regular season??? Maybe we should just ban all dads from hunting with their childern and wives and buddies and and and?????

[Wild one]

I do the gutless method on all my game. Seldom ever bring an animal out whole. Not that difficult for a bowhunter to do this too. Front quarters, rear quarters, backstraps, neck. A good shot in behind the shoulder and there is zero evidence of gunshot versus arrow. So, many say that there are dads killing their kid's deer in youth season but it is too far of a stretch to think that bowhunters are using rifles during bowseason because they have bear tags in their pockets???? Hell a bowhunter using a rifle doesn't even need a bear tag in their pocket as a excuse, as coyotes and wolves are open at the same time too. You don't think this happens??? If you are jumping to stupid conclusions that youth season needs to end because of the possibility of abuse by some unethical dads, can you not come to the same conclusion that the bow season needs to end because of the possibility of abuse by some unethical bowhunters?????

If you are willing to work hard enough you can hide anything you are right

With the increase in the amount of idiots that I have come across in the last 5 years nothing would surprise me. I would not call it a stretch that there are guys who use the excuse of bear hunting and shoot deer with a rifle but I have not seen it yet.

As for abuse of the youth season I have run into too many clowns that have admitted to it or have admitted to attempting to. There are a lot of idiot hunters that feel if there is someone there that can legally tag the animal it is ok to bend the rules.

I said it already I have no problem with the kids out there hunting and will most likely use this season for my son when the time comes. That being said it is abused a lot especially in areas like Princeton but there are still lots of places you will not see another hunter at this time.

If you read this thread the proposal in question was never put out and most who posted did not say anything about shutting down youth season

[aggiehunter]

dont' really matter does it...theres only a couple of regions (I think) that have a bear bow only season..so like I said...wtf...doesn't really matter.....duz it....

[aggiehunter]

Coach, maybe don't take them at the same time to avoid any arguments.......bang...flop.....cheers...

[bugler]

Coach...no I haven't...but run into many local kids that shot them with rifles during the BOS and shook their hands...hope that clears up the confusion.

Happy to say I've been there for one youth when he got his first deer, a yearling buck, with his bow during the early season. My son never really wanted to hunt with a rifle though I never discouraged it. Youth season not necessary for him!

I used to hunt a honey hole farm that became overrun with dads driving their kids up and down the field edge and quadding through the travel routes to the fields. The landowner allowed all his neighbors access and it was a good spot for the kids to get a deer but it sure messed it all up for me. I would sit in my stand and chuckle to myself. I wanted to stop one of them and tell them to park the quad in the field and use it as a back rest, wait til dusk and you will get one. Oh well, I left it to them and moved on. A lot of kids got to see a lot of deer, and the ones with dads who had half a brain actually got to shoot one. All good.

But ya....sometimes change does hurt a little.....

[hunter1993ap]

early season is elk season anyways, who wants to shoot an early velvet deer;)

[Jimmy4x4]

As for abuse of the youth season I have run into too many clowns that have admitted to it or have admitted to attempting to. There are a lot of idiot hunters that feel if there is someone there that can legally tag the animal it is ok to bend the rules.




in 50 yrs of hunting and in a club with over 1000 members and out in the field every chance i get ive never seen one instance of it nor have any of my hunting partners or club members either. funny that you see it so many times that its a big problem in your books. something stinks, and ill make sure i dont step in it when i see you out there! ;)

[coach]

Coach, maybe don't take them at the same time to avoid any arguments.......bang...flop.....cheers...

Ha ha! There'll be no arguments - just two kids enjoying two awesome styles of hunting. Neither one worried about which way is better. Neither one feeling a need to ask for special rules to restrict the other one.

[Wild one]

in 50 yrs of hunting and in a club with over 1000 members and out in the field every chance i get ive never seen one instance of it nor have any of my hunting partners or club members either. funny that you see it so many times that its a big problem in your books. something stinks, and ill make sure i dont step in it when i see you out there! ;)

That is great and you are welcome to your opinion. I have been members of clubs as well it means NOTHING so it has a 1000 members how many truly know you?

How many act fake just because they are in the club?

It may make you feel good but it real don't mean a thing


Now think of this what do I have to benefit from saying the things you quoted?

If you go through this thread not once did I say I have a problem with YOUTH having a season. I also plan on using it for my own son and will also be helping a friend take out his son next YOUTH season.

Do you really think you see or hear everything that goes on in the bush? Just because you don't see it don't mean it does not happen.

Did I say this goes on everywhere?

You are welcome to your opinion and I will have the opinion you know less about what is going on than you think

[GoatGuy]

If you are willing to work hard enough you can hide anything you are right

With the increase in the amount of idiots that I have come across in the last 5 years nothing would surprise me. I would not call it a stretch that there are guys who use the excuse of bear hunting and shoot deer with a rifle but I have not seen it yet.

As for abuse of the youth season I have run into too many clowns that have admitted to it or have admitted to attempting to. There are a lot of idiot hunters that feel if there is someone there that can legally tag the animal it is ok to bend the rules.

I said it already I have no problem with the kids out there hunting and will most likely use this season for my son when the time comes. That being said it is abused a lot especially in areas like Princeton but there are still lots of places you will not see another hunter at this time.

If you read this thread the proposal in question was never put out and most who posted did not say anything about shutting down youth season

How many times have you reported this to the COS?

[Wild one]

How many times have you reported this to the COS?

Talked to a CO in town after one guy admitted to it and had the deer in the truck in 814. The response I got was well all you have is your word against his. This is 1 of only 2 times I ran into it first hand in the bush.

I have also talked to CO's about this issue a meetings not involving this and was told they know it happens but it is tough to prove.

Have had a good number of guys that have admitted it just from talking hunting with them. Not calling a CO over something that happened months before I found out. Kind of hard to expect results when you lack enough proof for the CO to go on.


It is far from just the youth season that has the problems but it gives a good loop hole. It seems there is a lot more low life's getting into hunting

[dana]

No proof and yup it is your word against his. Impossible to charge. What I do know is, there are a bunch of people who do jump to conclusions. For some, kids couldn't possibly see that much success, so therefore their old man must be doing it right??? I was serious when I mentioned about running into 2 bowhunters/rifle bear hunters opening weekend of youth season and they seemed rather sketchy. I could jump to conclusions but instead I wished them a good hunt and we went on our merry way. My buddy was bowhunting a few years back and encountered a group of 4 bowhunters that all were packing rifles. So yup, easy to jump to conclusions. But no evidence means you are only guessing and you could very well be dead ass wrong. The reality of the matter is law breakers don't need a season. So changing seasons to try to curb law breakers is pretty well pointless. And if you think party hunting is a new thing, you must be a new hunter. In the good ol days, it was more the norm than it is today.

[Onesock]

How many of you guys on here had a junior season to hunt in when you learned to hunt? I hunted with my three boys from the time they were 10 years old and there was no junior season. Listening tosome of you guys on here there will be no new hunters ever if there was no junior season. This post just seems like a way for a few rifle hunters to chuck shit at bowhunters! Just for the record I don't have a problem one way or the other with a junior season.

[coach]

Clarify that, Onesock.. Who's chucking shit at bow hunters?

[dana]

How many of you guys on here had a junior season to hunt in when you learned to hunt? I hunted with my three boys from the time they were 10 years old and there was no junior season. Listening tosome of you guys on here there will be no new hunters ever if there was no junior season. This post just seems like a way for a few rifle hunters to chuck shit at bowhunters! Just for the record I don't have a problem one way or the other with a junior season.

I'm only chuckin the $hit back over the fence that some bowhunter chucked this way. I've heard this thought process numerous times on this site over the years from bowhunters. We must end the youth hunt from taking place during the bowhunt because it is f###ing up my chances at killing a deer. The rifle shots are unsafe and scare away all the deer. And gawd damn those dads. They must be killing the deer for their kids so we better get rid of that season to stop them from doing that. Maybe it is more the ploy to get people out of the woods so bowhunters poach with rifles???? Why is there no proposals to end all yote and wolf and bear hunting seasons during the bowseason????

[Wild one]

No proof and yup it is your word against his. Impossible to charge. What I do know is, there are a bunch of people who do jump to conclusions. For some, kids couldn't possibly see that much success, so therefore their old man must be doing it right??? I was serious when I mentioned about running into 2 bowhunters/rifle bear hunters opening weekend of youth season and they seemed rather sketchy. I could jump to conclusions but instead I wished them a good hunt and we went on our merry way. My buddy was bowhunting a few years back and encountered a group of 4 bowhunters that all were packing rifles. So yup, easy to jump to conclusions. But no evidence means you are only guessing and you could very well be dead ass wrong. The reality of the matter is law breakers don't need a season. So changing seasons to try to curb law breakers is pretty well pointless. And if you think party hunting is a new thing, you must be a new hunter. In the good ol days, it was more the norm than it is today.


I do agree changing the season would not put an end to abuse but it would be nice to see a few more CO's out there but I would say that is needed for all seasons.

I have mixed feeling on this season as I see the good and bad it has brought. I like seeing the kids who are successful but can't stand the added abuse.

[dana]

I do agree changing the season would not put an end to abuse but it would be nice to see a few more CO's out there but I would say that is needed for all seasons.

I have mixed feeling on this season as I see the good and bad it has brought. I like seeing the kids who are successful but can't stand the added abuse.

I have mixed feelings on bowseasons as I see the good and the bad it has brought. I like seeing bowhunters who are successful but can't stand the added abuse.

[hunter1993ap]

I have mixed feelings on bowseasons as I see the good and the bad it has brought. I like seeing bowhunters who are successful but can't stand the added abuse.

i thought you said there doesnt have to be a season for abuse. i love the bow season, way less people out and all the animals are down low.

[dana]

Do you see what he wrote and what I wrote???? Little play on words. Abusers don't need seasons. That is true. So why suggest that we change seasons to curb abuse???
And I love the youth season/bowseason too. Hardly see a single soul and the animals are all up high. ;)

[hunter1993ap]

Do you see what he wrote and what I wrote???? Little play on words. Abusers don't need seasons. That is true. So why suggest that we change seasons to curb abuse???
And I love the youth season/bowseason too. Hardly see a single soul and the animals are all up high. ;)

during the early season there up high, i was talking about the late on;) i agree with your take on this subject,

[Wild one]

I have mixed feelings on bowseasons as I see the good and the bad it has brought. I like seeing bowhunters who are successful but can't stand the added abuse.

Dana

I see what you are trying but you are trying with the wrong guy

Yes I am a bowhunter but if it is GOS or bow season it don't matter to me. The only reason I hunt during bow season is because I feel like hunting at that time of year and can't go north do to lack of time or money. Most years I may only hunt 1 or 2 days of bow season and bow hunt during GOS's instead

You could do away with the archery deer season and most years I would not even notice.

You could give the kids a youth only deer season for the month of Sept where no one else could hunt if you really like

I find it funny how youth season gets defended so strongly even when it is not being threatened

Go sling crap over another fence were it belongs

[dana]

I knew you were talking late. :) But keep this in mind, while you are hunting muleys late with a bow, I'm hunting them late with a rifle. Sucks to be you. ;)

[hunter1993ap]

I knew you were talking late. :) But keep this in mind, while you are hunting muleys late with a bow, I'm hunting them late with a rifle. Sucks to be you. ;)
i wish i had a rifle in hand some days... you have it too easy, using a rifle all season;)

[dana]

i wish i had a rifle in hand some days... you have it too easy, using a rifle all season;)

Yup, I have it way too easy. If I was a 'real' hunter I would put the rifle away. ;)

[dana]

Dana

I see what you are trying but you are trying with the wrong guy

Yes I am a bowhunter but if it is GOS or bow season it don't matter to me. The only reason I hunt during bow season is because I feel like hunting at that time of year and can't go north do to lack of time or money. Most years I may only hunt 1 or 2 days of bow season and bow hunt during GOS's instead

You could do away with the archery deer season and most years I would not even notice.

You could give the kids a youth only deer season for the month of Sept where no one else could hunt if you really like

I find it funny how youth season gets defended so strongly even when it is not being threatened

Go sling crap over another fence were it belongs

You make outlandish claims about dad's and you think a dad like me, whose kids have taken full advantage of various youth seasons, isn't going to call you on your BS???

[BlacktailStalker]

It is also epidemic with bow hunters packing rifles using bear hunting as an excuse. ;) How many so-called archery kills are actually rifle kills???

I dont agree with this whatsoever. Most bow hunters are very enthusiastic about the sport, purists if you will, like fly fisherman.
There doesn't seem to be that many in the middle.
I am in the middle. I enjoy bow hunting but I like hunting mountains more than the lowland, rural and farm areas that 99% of guys bow hunt here, where bucks have patterns but to me it just isn't the same. Tons of good book blacktails get killed within 500 yards of a door. Not my style.
I took a really good bear this year with my bow after having put it down for some time, coupled with having several 'decent' bucks in bow range while looking for big bucks with my rifle any of which would be a great buck with a bow, for that reason I am going to pack both at times on those particular hunts.
Why anyone would lie about how they took an animal is beyond me.
People are going to take some impressive unsporting game year after year with BOTH types of 'weapon' at times that may or may not be legal, it is not more likely to happen with a bow than anything else.
It is a weapon of choice for poachers around town for sure, that is something that stands true (maybe why some don't care for bowhunting there might be an element from this that makes it seem unfair in general to some ?) in fact there is one guy locally who has several poached (119"+) blacktails who FINALLY got caught this year !! Sad thing is his monster BT (127") is featured on the business card of someone else (I think this is unknown to him) anyways, off topic.
There is no difference as to guys who queitly "show up" with monster bucks said to be taken well after the season ended when the snow finally pushed them down.

[hunter1993ap]

i agree with you blacktail about most bowhunters not packing rifles but like dana said some do. when i bow hunt i prety much hunt exactly the same way as i do with a rifle, in some of the same places. but really i dont care if i have a bow in my hand or a rifle. i still have the same standards and feel exactly the same after i kill something. its just a hell of a lot easier with a rifle. both are just a tool to get the job done. i dont see how the bow hunters think the youth rifle season gets in there way, they should not say anything because they just look ignorant.

[BlacktailStalker]

At the end of the day the kids should come first, that would be the deciding factor in the arguement for me. I hope to find a good buck with my bow in the old growth timber or bluffs again this year but if I see a whopper 100 yards away cruising, he'll be feeling a burning sensation in his side followed by a big bang :)

[hunter1947]

At the end of the day the kids should come first, that would be the deciding factor in the arguement for me. I hope to find a good buck with my bow in the old growth timber or bluffs again this year but if I see a whopper 100 yards away cruising, he'll be feeling a burning sensation in his side followed by a big bang :)

Kids first big man good post http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.png..

[hunter1947]

Anyone can bow hunt during archery season. You don't have to be a FN, a youth, senior or a lottery winner etc. Anyone! No prejudice! The lower effectiveness, lower harvest of the tool allows for a broader season and opportunity for everyone.

Not sure of the reason behind kiddy season. Is this an conservations measure providing an opportunity where a general open season would overharvest the prescribed kill? Is it to prime the deer for GOS so they aren't hanging around the roads so much for lazy roadhunters to slaughter?


Excatley I like your post ..

[hunter1947]

The few adalts that shoot animals for there childrean and I mean adalts I can't call them hunters Karma will catch up to you one day and bite you in the ass just a matter of time..

I will look into this proposal in the near future and find out why the change if there will be a change on the opening for youth season ,,for me no sense guessing on why the charge might take place you got to find out from the top brass...

[Walksalot]

When I hunt early season i carry my defender I will tell you this if a Co stopped you and you had a bear down that you shot say it was from ether your rifle or shoot gun you would have some explaining to do ,,the CO is not stupid he knows the difference between a bullet hole and an arrow hole..

I am a bit confused here. Isn't the black bear season an open season from the get go. I don't think the C.O. would give a darn whether you shot the bear with a rifle or bow. The only time it would be an issue would be if you did something illegal.
As far as the early youth season goes it gives a young hunter a chance to chase the deer around before school starts. Once the general season starts the and the sound of bang,bang starts up the deer are harder to see in the cut blocks. It gives the youngsters a chance to practice stalking skill without a lot of general season road warriors in the bush. No matter how you try to organize the youth season there will always be some who will try to bend the rules.
I hunt with both rifle and bow and I have no problem with the youth season.

[hunter1947]

I am a bit confused here. Isn't the black bear season an open season from the get go. I don't think the C.O. would give a darn whether you shot the bear with a rifle or bow. The only time it would be an issue would be if you did something illegal.
As far as the early youth season goes it gives a young hunter a chance to chase the deer around before school starts. Once the general season starts the and the sound of bang,bang starts up the deer are harder to see in the cut blocks. It gives the youngsters a chance to practice stalking skill without a lot of general season road warriors in the bush. No matter how you try to organize the youth season there will always be some who will try to bend the rules.
I hunt with both rifle and bow and I have no problem with the youth season.



Walksalot my mistake sorry just ignore my post I guess I had a seniors moment http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon11.png :oops: what I was meaning to say is there is no GOS here in region 4 for black bear during the youth season LOL...

[steel_ram]

Kids first big man good post http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon14.png..

Totally! and we mean the ones under 30.;)

[Onesock]

Coach-check your first couple of posts on shit slinging at bowhunters. While you are at it maybe read a few more.

Dana- oh mighty mule deer hunter-someone as good as you shouldn't need a youth season to teach your kids how to hunt. From the sounds of things you onle hunt where no human has ever walked. You should be safe from all the rifle toting bow hunters!

From this post a person sure can see who is anti what...............

[coach]

Onesock - maybe read the entire thread. I apologized got my initial comments. At the same time - SOME bow hunters are selfish, want the woods all to themselves, and have no time for kids who are competing for "their" animals. You sir, clearly are one of those people. It seems you are the one slinging shit while the rest of us carry on a conversation and work through the issues. Maybe it's time to look at yourself in the mirror. When was the last time you posted an inspirational hunting related story on this site?

I've said it before - involving youth is crucial for the continuation of our sport. Hunters fighting hunters does nothing positive and could easily be our downfall. Changing regulations for social reasons does nothing to help animal populations or hunting in general. Changing rules because of the bad apples is also a dangerous precedent. I'm not getting involved in a debate over which group of hunters violates rules the most - but we all know there are far more incidents reported in the media of bow hunters poaching animals close to town than stories of idiot fathers killing deer for their kids. Do you want to be grouped in with those people?

[Onesock]

Pardon me? You apologized but you still made the comments. First response,damn bowhunters!!!Share an inspirational hunting story here????????? You must be kidding me. Not one time on this post have I slagged kids hunting seasons. It just surprises me that we all learned to hunt without a special season and now that seems impossible. I have always advocated that youth should hunt from Sept 1 to Dec1 or whatever dates possible with special privileges. I like the suggestion someone made on here of kids hunting deer from Sept 1 to Sept 30 with no one else hunting deer then. I can imagine the outcry from the lead slingers then. Give me a break.
By the way grouped with what people?

[fowl language]

fellas ,nothing is going to change. the gov,t wants to harmonize all the seasons and are working toward that.they aren,t about to bow to the wants of a special weapons group as opposed to the general public.they are behind the recruitment process for hunting.in fact there are talks coming up about a family hunting weekend similiar to the family fishing.....before you get your panties in a knot,this will likely happen the same weekend as the heritage days to not take away from the number of hunting days allowed.....dale

[bugler]

Harmonization. Does that mean we will finally get a late mule deer bow season in Reg 4 like many other regions in the province? Hot diggity! I can't wait.

[coach]

Harmonization. Does that mean we will finally get a late mule deer bow season in Reg 4 like many other regions in the province? Hot diggity! I can't wait.

There's mule deer in Reg 4?? :-D:-D

[J_T]

fellas ,nothing is going to change. the gov,t wants to harmonize all the seasons and are working toward that.they aren,t about to bow to the wants of a special weapons group as opposed to the general public.they are behind the recruitment process for hunting.in fact there are talks coming up about a family hunting weekend similiar to the family fishing.....before you get your panties in a knot,this will likely happen the same weekend as the heritage days to not take away from the number of hunting days allowed.....dale
Just to be clear, it isn't about special weapons or special seasons. It's about hunting opportunity.

A bow season, (different from bow 'only') has it's place. And while many of the posters here are simply taunting each other or making their points, for the reader, it does add to some of the confusion and does make a constructive discussion about decisions more difficult.

Harmonization of seasons is fine, however I'm sure each of us has a different vision of what that means. Personally, I think micro-management is a better approach if we are basing decisions in science. But, I accept that micro-management is not cost effective.

If the agenda/objective is harmonization (actually haven't heard the term in a while) adding bow seasons to either shoulder of a GOS makes sense. Having bow seasons when a lower harvest rate maintains sustainability while maximizing participation and opportunity simply makes sense. "Selling" a bow season as opportunity over LEH is more difficult. Within the general open seasons, there are other opportunities such as the moose hunt in region 4 that Bugler pointed out, that can provide an opportunity for all hunters, using a bow, to hunt an extended period of time. Opportunity.

Each area of the province is different and each area comes with its own constraints to the decision making process. Whether its a weapon or the primary species sought after or access. Each area is unique. IE while in the EK ATV's can abuse access because they can go virtually anywhere, in the north an ATV is almost a requirement to hunt effectively. That's why input toward decisions takes a cross section of stakeholders, each advocating primarily for themselves, but within the concept of 'the greater good' in open dialogue with each other, being respectful of each other and knowing, not all decisions will go their way, will result in harmony. And that, is real harmonization.

[Walksalot]

Walksalot my mistake sorry just ignore my post I guess I had a seniors moment http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon11.png :oops: what I was meaning top say is there is no GOS here in region 4 for black bear during the youth season LOL...

No need to apologize as I made an uninformed generalization myself.

[coach]

Just to be clear, it isn't about special weapons or special seasons. It's about hunting opportunity.

A bow season, (different from bow 'only') has it's place. And while many of the posters here are simply taunting each other or making their points, for the reader, it does add to some of the confusion and does make a constructive discussion about decisions more difficult.

Harmonization of seasons is fine, however I'm sure each of us has a different vision of what that means. Personally, I think micro-management is a better approach if we are basing decisions in science. But, I accept that micro-management is not cost effective.

If the agenda/objective is harmonization (actually haven't heard the term in a while) adding bow seasons to either shoulder of a GOS makes sense. Having bow seasons when a lower harvest rate maintains sustainability while maximizing participation and opportunity simply makes sense. "Selling" a bow season as opportunity over LEH is more difficult. Within the general open seasons, there are other opportunities such as the moose hunt in region 4 that Bugler pointed out, that can provide an opportunity for all hunters, using a bow, to hunt an extended period of time. Opportunity.

Each area of the province is different and each area comes with its own constraints to the decision making process. Whether its a weapon or the primary species sought after or access. Each area is unique. IE while in the EK ATV's can abuse access because they can go virtually anywhere, in the north an ATV is almost a requirement to hunt effectively. That's why input toward decisions takes a cross section of stakeholders, each advocating primarily for themselves, but within the concept of 'the greater good' in open dialogue with each other, being respectful of each other and knowing, not all decisions will go their way, will result in harmony. And that, is real harmonization.

Excellent post, JT. :-D In the spirit of bow season adding opportunity, I know there is push here in Region 8 to add an early September bow season for Elk. As you stated, the lower harvest rate will maintain sustainability while at the same time provide opportunity - Win/win. I'd much rather see a proposal like this go ahead than the concept that originally started this thread.

[black tail artist]

The oppertunity should be equal across the board. there should not be a bow season only or youth seaon only . if over crowding is an issue then leh the area. and yes i bow hunt.

[Jelvis]

All equal, no special rights or seasons for no one, all the same. Why is this so hard to implement?
I'm guessing no one can do this and wouldn't be satisfied no matter what.
That is why we hire people to make and manage the regulations, otherwise it would be Kay Oss.
Thank gad we got managers to determine this.

[J_T]

The oppertunity should be equal across the board. there should not be a bow season only or youth seaon only . if over crowding is an issue then leh the area. and yes i bow hunt. But I don't think overcrowding is the issue. Conservation (sustainability), Retention, recruitment, harmonization, youth opportunity, respect for seniors. Those are the issues. They are not necessarily generated or decided upon by hunters, they are decided upon by Government and create the framework within which we have the freedom and privilege to participate and provide comment.


All equal, no special rights or seasons for no one, all the same. Why is this so hard to implement?
I'm guessing no one can do this and wouldn't be satisfied no matter what.
That is why we hire people to make and manage the regulations, otherwise it would be Kay Oss.
Thank gad we got managers to determine this. You know, someone could twist those words of yours into something you might not like. I could suggest that you being a rifle hunter are a special interest. With all due respect, I could suggest that your literary skill indicate you are a special interest. Just to suggest for a moment, if we want opportunity, then I would suggest the most sustainable approach is a bow season. It would provide the most conservative approach, yet maximize opportunity, and allow hunters to operate at much closer quarters than they require with a rifle hunt. I'm just sayin. But there are other factors and we're forced to find the middle ground. Road hunters are a special interest. Seniors are a special interest group. Trophy hunters. Why can't we consider them all and manage for all. Saying GOS across the board is putting the blinders on and not being open to new ideas and more opportunity.

[OutWest]

The oppertunity should be equal across the board. there should not be a bow season only or youth seaon only . if over crowding is an issue then leh the area. and yes i bow hunt.

You don't think youth hunters should have an early opportunity?

[greybark]

Hey J_T , Jel will get right back to you as soon as his Spinning wheel picks out a Vowel .LOL
Cheers Jel.....

[HarryToolips]

Kids should come first, that's for sure we have to promote the future of the sport..Off topic a bit I know many of you have said that a restriction in the mule deer "any buck" season in Oct would not create more deer..Maybe in your regions where ever you are it wouldn't make a difference but here in the Okanagan where I primarily hunt with a higher human population and quick access from the coast I see many hunters here, and I mean lots. As soon as that season hits come Oct, the bucks are falling in large amounts I see it every season many more than during the 4 point season. Say what you will but during a any buck season it is always much easier to tag one because all you have to see is bone and pull the trigger, not try and count out 4 points "oh wait that's a brow tine, don't count" can't shoot. So many EXPERIENCED hunters in my area would like to see that GOS around here reduced, and they must know what they're talking about, so tell me, how will cutting back the "any buck" season by just a bit not be beneficial for the mule deer population? As well, it would allow for a broader gene pool to contribute to the population. Please tell me, I wanna know...

[GoatGuy]

Kids should come first, that's for sure we have to promote the future of the sport..Off topic a bit I know many of you have said that a restriction in the mule deer "any buck" season in Oct would not create more deer..Maybe in your regions where ever you are it wouldn't make a difference but here in the Okanagan where I primarily hunt with a higher human population and quick access from the coast I see many hunters here, and I mean lots. As soon as that season hits come Oct, the bucks are falling in large amounts I see it every season many more than during the 4 point season. Say what you will but during a any buck season it is always much easier to tag one because all you have to see is bone and pull the trigger, not try and count out 4 points "oh wait that's a brow tine, don't count" can't shoot. So many EXPERIENCED hunters in my area would like to see that GOS around here reduced, and they must know what they're talking about, so tell me, how will cutting back the "any buck" season by just a bit not be beneficial for the mule deer population? As well, it would allow for a broader gene pool to contribute to the population. Please tell me, I wanna know...

I guess the first question is: do you believe support wildlife management by science?

[boxhitch]

So many EXPERIENCED hunters in my area would like to see that GOS around here reduced, and they must know what they're talking about,Just because it is repeated often doesn't make it right.

If the season is a bad thing , why are all the does pregnant and delivering twins ?

[Gateholio]

Kids should come first, that's for sure we have to promote the future of the sport..Off topic a bit I know many of you have said that a restriction in the mule deer "any buck" season in Oct would not create more deer..Maybe in your regions where ever you are it wouldn't make a difference but here in the Okanagan where I primarily hunt with a higher human population and quick access from the coast I see many hunters here, and I mean lots. As soon as that season hits come Oct, the bucks are falling in large amounts I see it every season many more than during the 4 point season. Say what you will but during a any buck season it is always much easier to tag one because all you have to see is bone and pull the trigger, not try and count out 4 points "oh wait that's a brow tine, don't count" can't shoot. So many EXPERIENCED hunters in my area would like to see that GOS around here reduced, and they must know what they're talking about, so tell me, how will cutting back the "any buck" season by just a bit not be beneficial for the mule deer population? As well, it would allow for a broader gene pool to contribute to the population. Please tell me, I wanna know...

So funny. I am in 2-11. Much more accessible to hunters "from the coast". It's only a couple of hours drive.

We have an "any buck' season from Sept1- Nov 31, and a 2 buck limit. We've had it for dozens of years. And because our deer population is not decreasing at all, we had an LEH doe hunt and a Youth hunt implemented a few years ago. All you have to do in Reg 2 for the whole season is "see bone" and you can shoot.(or release arrow)

The only thing that seems to really push back deer numbers is hard winters, and to a lesser degree- high predator population.

You are caught up in the idea that point restrictions =more deer idea, but the concept has been refuted time and time again.

[The Dude]

Region 3 also seems to do pretty well with liberal seasons, and relatively the same accessibility from Mordor (aka The LML).
Wonder how that works? Hmmmm....

[Jimmy4x4]

So many EXPERIENCED hunters in my area would like to see that GOS around here reduced, and they must know what they're talking about, so tell me, how will cutting back the "any buck" season by just a bit not be beneficial for the mule deer population? As well, it would allow for a broader gene pool to contribute to the population. Please tell me, I wanna know...


ever stop to think that your friends dont want more deer, just less hunters?

[bugler]

Just to be clear, it isn't about special weapons or special seasons. It's about hunting opportunity.

A bow season, (different from bow 'only') has it's place. And while many of the posters here are simply taunting each other or making their points, for the reader, it does add to some of the confusion and does make a constructive discussion about decisions more difficult.

Harmonization of seasons is fine, however I'm sure each of us has a different vision of what that means. Personally, I think micro-management is a better approach if we are basing decisions in science. But, I accept that micro-management is not cost effective.

If the agenda/objective is harmonization (actually haven't heard the term in a while) adding bow seasons to either shoulder of a GOS makes sense. Having bow seasons when a lower harvest rate maintains sustainability while maximizing participation and opportunity simply makes sense. "Selling" a bow season as opportunity over LEH is more difficult. Within the general open seasons, there are other opportunities such as the moose hunt in region 4 that Bugler pointed out, that can provide an opportunity for all hunters, using a bow, to hunt an extended period of time. Opportunity.

Each area of the province is different and each area comes with its own constraints to the decision making process. Whether its a weapon or the primary species sought after or access. Each area is unique. IE while in the EK ATV's can abuse access because they can go virtually anywhere, in the north an ATV is almost a requirement to hunt effectively. That's why input toward decisions takes a cross section of stakeholders, each advocating primarily for themselves, but within the concept of 'the greater good' in open dialogue with each other, being respectful of each other and knowing, not all decisions will go their way, will result in harmony. And that, is real harmonization.

I'm totally with you JT. Of course I was being somewhat sarcastic with my harmonization comment. I just found it interesting (and frustrating, I'll admit) that the word was used as part of the rationale to implement the Oct any buck here. My reaction was "Great! While we're at it, let's bring in the late bow season also, just like those other regions." And the response was "Well, we're not sure we want to harmonize it that much, cough, cough." Followed by shuffling of feet and lack of eye contact.

Now the season has been shortened a little and if I were King I would have given that opportunity back as a bow/youth season. Too much to ask?

[HarryToolips]

Maybe there's just more hunters around here then, I don't know but around here you definitely do not see every doe with fawns..I've seen fields of wintering mule deer here where there are 50 does and only 5 bucks or so..by what I've seen and I'm in the bush alot, plus what others I've talked to see, there are just way more does than bucks here with regards to mule deer. Like I said, maybe that's just around here. They're not WT, the mule deer bucks don't breed as much as WT bucks, I just think there should be more bucks. But who knows, maybe I'm just wrong, hopefully I am!

[coach]

Now the season has been shortened a little and if I were King I would have given that opportunity back as a bow/youth season. Too much to ask?

IF the season was shortened due to conservation concerns and not for social reasons, wouldn't it be necessary to judge the results of the change before adding opportunity? I would suspect that if numbers rebound, the region might look at your suggestion as a positive step toward getting back to less restrictive openings. Has there been a shift in forest management / habitat improvement practices that will help to make more deer?

[aggiehunter]

Coach, the request for the early bowonly Elk in Region 8 is doomed to fail....sorry....

[coach]

Maybe there's just more hunters around here then, I don't know but around here you definitely do not see every doe with fawns..I've seen fields of wintering mule deer here where there are 50 does and only 5 bucks or so..by what I've seen and I'm in the bush alot, plus what others I've talked to see, there are just way more does than bucks here with regards to mule deer. Like I said, maybe that's just around here. They're not WT, the mule deer bucks don't breed as much as WT bucks, I just think there should be more bucks. But who knows, maybe I'm just wrong, hopefully I am!

Are you seeing 50 does or 50 antler less deer in those fields? Can you think of any other factors, besides hunting, that could be affecting ungulate populations?

BTW - the guys voicing their desire for more social management initiatives slept in and missed the meeting today. :-D I guess the world will continue to be run by those who show up.

[coach]

Coach, the request for the early bowonly Elk in Region 8 is doomed to fail....sorry....

Elaborate. Why do you think it will fail?

[Wild one]

Elaborate. Why do you think it will fail?

Would like to know as well because I doubt the reason has anything do to conservation concerns

[Jimmy4x4]

Maybe there's just more hunters around here then, I don't know but around here you definitely do not see every doe with fawns..I've seen fields of wintering mule deer here where there are 50 does and only 5 bucks or so..by what I've seen and I'm in the bush alot, plus what others I've talked to see, there are just way more does than bucks here with regards to mule deer. Like I said, maybe that's just around here. They're not WT, the mule deer bucks don't breed as much as WT bucks, I just think there should be more bucks. But who knows, maybe I'm just wrong, hopefully I am!

the number of mule deer hunters in region 8 has not changed in the last 20 years. 5 bucks are plenty to breed 50 does, no sperm supply issue there. got any facts to add?

[frenchbar]

the number of mule deer hunters in region 8 has not changed in the last 20 years. 5 bucks are plenty to breed 50 does, no sperm supply issue there. got any facts to add? never mind the sperm supply issue lol question is will the Red wings make the playoffs this yr ..:mrgreen:

[Jelvis]

Are you kidden me frenchy? Really C'mon man what? FD?

[jaeger]

x2 Jt and Similkameen Farmer well written! I am a Bow hunter/Rifle Hunter as well and have contributed to the success of youth hunters in harvesting animals in an early season. If every one out there hunting would make sure that their bullet path is not endangering anyone then there would be no issues in my opinion.
Cheers Jaeger