Sheep Identification - Guess the Age #1

[dana]

In the spirit of education, I was thinking of a series of threads to help newbies and oldbies alike in the identification of sheep aging and legal full curl or not. The pictures I have are live cali rams and there are no dead pics to prove one right versus one wrong. There is, however, a wealth of knowledge and experience in many members who can show the newbies the way. I am not a sheep hunter, I just like taking pictures. I have been around sheep most my life but don't have the experience at aging like numerous other members here do. So this is just as much for education of myself as it is for anyone else. I ask those who are experienced to disect my photos and give us the tools needed to arrive at the right decision in the field. If others have pics to share, please by all means, share.

Ram #1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/PC290069a_zps0bcb9c8e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/PC290151.jpg

[Rackmastr]

I'd probably guess 10.5 on that ram.....

Very good idea Dana, I'm looking forward to the insight, information and some good learning on this thread!

[d6dan]

I agree with Rackmastr. 10.5 yrs. Steve, do you have side photo of this guy?.

[r106]

I think 9.5 years old. Actually with snow on the ground and I'm guessing these pics were taken recently so maybe 9 3/4 years old now. lol

[warnniklz]

I counted 7.5... but I've never hunted sheep a day in my life.

[Ferenc]

I will try....no expert...In sheep the first age ring(annulus)is generally within two to 4 inches of the tip of a unbroomed horn with the second six to nine inches farther down the horn and the third three to five inches beyond the second...almost all bighorns (The large ones) will have a broomed first annulus and some may be broomed to the second...False annuli rings do appear on sheep...they are not usually as deep as a true annuli and do not extend completely around the horn.. these do not count as a age ring....hope this helps a bit...its what I look for when I see them....I would say the Ram in the above awesome pics is 9 years old.....A very nice Ram!!!

[pappy]

I count 9 rings and ad one for the broomed off part? I'm not good at recognizing rings, so thanks for this thread. I've looked for stones but I go by the full curl method, I still haven't found a legal one in three attempts.

[BCrams]

We just had the Spences bighorn sheep regulations changed to full curl because too many sub legal (miss aged rams) were taken with one in particular being the last straw.

Even though its a cali - lets pretend it was a bighorn

Given its a full curl regulation on bighorns in Spences, this ram would not make it.

The Kootenay full curl - would need a side profile photo of this ram but I'm guessing he would not make it.

For a lucky LEH tag holder for Kamloops, Fraser River cali tag or other along with special sheep permit holder for cali's - this is a fine mature ram to harvest.

[Brez]

I'm going 9 1/2......great idea DANA

[BiG Boar]

I count 9 rings I can see. Do you think one has been broomed off? I don't believe so.

[dellis]

I say 9 1/2
Darcy

[dana]

We just had the Spences bighorn sheep regulations changed to full curl because too many sub legal (miss aged rams) were taken with one in particular being the last straw.

Even though its a cali - lets pretend it was a bighorn

Given its a full curl regulation on bighorns in Spences, this ram would not make it.

The Kootenay full curl - would need a side profile photo of this ram but I'm guessing he would not make it.

For a lucky LEH tag holder for Kamloops, Fraser River cali tag or other along with special sheep permit holder for cali's - this is a fine mature ram to harvest.

Rams,
This ram is no where near full-curl as he is broomed too heavy. I wasn't looking for legality or not on this guy. Just looking for age, and I know you are one of the ones on this site that can give us a very educated opinion. I know Cali's are not Stones and grow a little differently but I don't think there are too many good live pictures of Thinhorns taken by members where we can play the live game. Maybe I'm wrong??? Post them if ya got them. Thus far on the guesses on this ram, I've come up with a different number than most. Curious to what a disected photo from the pros would come up with. ;)

[snareman1234]

I get 10.5

[.300WSMImpact!]

wow I thought it would be easier I guessed 7

[BCrams]

Rams,
This ram is no where near full-curl as he is broomed too heavy. I wasn't looking for legality or not on this guy. Just looking for age, and I know you are one of the ones on this site that can give us a very educated opinion. I know Cali's are not Stones and grow a little differently but I don't think there are too many good live pictures of Thinhorns taken by members where we can play the live game. Maybe I'm wrong??? Post them if ya got them. Thus far on the guesses on this ram, I've come up with a different number than most. Curious to what a disected photo from the pros would come up with. ;)

I got the gist of your post and threw it in for those who maybe didn't.

For what its worth I get with high confidence 8 and very well could be 9 which would be easier to determine with the horns held in my hands for anything I am not picking up from photo such as from a side photo of the ram or by the bases. But I'm no expert by far with bighorns much less cali's lol.

I do like the characteristics of busted horn near the bases indicating a more mature ram vs the 5-6 yr olds.

For the sake of california bighorn rams - he's a shooter in my eyes based on what I see if I had the Kamloops tag.

I'd like to hear what bighornbob would say on the ram.

[riflebuilder]

I come up with 8 1/2 possibly 9 1/2. Nice mature Cali ram would look good on the wall and tasty on the plate nothin better than sheep meat roasted on the grill or over a fire....mmmm good.

[Rackmastr]

I'd probably guess 10.5 on that ram.....

Very good idea Dana, I'm looking forward to the insight, information and some good learning on this thread!

On further review, and after looking at the mass that my wife's ram has on his 1.5 year old mark, I'd say I've got this ram at 9.5 instead of 10.5

[kennyj]

I would say 10 1/2. An awesome bruiser for sure. I'm also looking forward to what the experts have to say. Great idea Dana, and thanks for sharing your great photos.
kenny

[Jehiah]

8.5
I count 8 rings and am assuming he has only broomed off part of his first year.
Ive never hunted sheep.

[coach]

Great idea for a thread, Dana. I learned (at least I think I did) this year that a ram's age is very difficult to judge from a picture. The kamloops ram killed in 2012 by my friend (Daniel Boone) was aged by many of the HBC experts - guys who have lot of knowledge and a great deal of my respect for - at 7 1/2. That number was arrived at from the pics. The taxidermist - who obviously had the horns in his hands - gave it 10 1/2 and the compulsory inspection - performed in Kamloops - officially aged it at 9 1/2. Food for though!

As there was no age or horn requirement on that ram, there's no reason for controversy. You are welcome to post him up or I can do it later. I'd love to see someone draw the lines on the annuli as has been done on other sheep threads in the past.

[J_T]

I come up with 8 1/2 possibly 9 1/2. Nice mature Cali ram would look good on the wall and tasty on the plate nothin better than sheep meat roasted on the grill or over a fire....mmmm good.

Not sure about tastey on the plate, but I came up with the same age possibilities. Not sure where some of the guys are getting 10.5.

[Jelvis]

9 years old or older .. maybe .. never done it b4 so, that's why I like the full curl rule myself, not age restrictions, for LEH cali sheep, that's why I love any ram at Kamloops Lake 3-29
At least for my way of determining a legal sized Ram is full curl for LEH rams but this LEH is "ANY RAM" in 3 - two niner.
Rams have good size swirls up by Kamloops Lake. Thick swooping horns for some and tight, thick, close curls on others and some in betwixed.
Jel ..3-29er Cali SHEEP!

[HarryToolips]

Wow awesome pics dunno much bout Bighorns, but I do know you could probably send those pics in for a wildlife magazine or somethin..

[Caribou_lou]

9.5 years. Great picture.

[Mugger]

I get a little cofused when I see so many near the skull, the first rings always seem to be multiple and I am not sure if it they are false or not. What about the one within 1/4 in of the skull. Need some pen marks on the horns to identify which ones you guys are counting as true and which ones are false. I have only ever gone by legal length.

[Bisonfirst]

I get 10.5 using the 3 yrs at the first annuli method. Great idea!

[dana]

Here's what I got. Those that know better, please correct me if I've got it wrong.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/PC290069b.jpg

[Rackmastr]

Those are the same lines that I'm using as well Dana. At first I had the line at the tip as his 2.5 year mark, but changed to call him an 8 year old ram after I realized I was giving him too much.

[BiG Boar]

Here's what I got. Those that know better, please correct me if I've got it wrong.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/PC290069b.jpg

It looks to me like there is one more at the base. On his left horn you can see it more clearly. I'm not sure when exactly in the winter the ring is formed, but it looks to me as though it has.

[Timberjack]

It looks to me like there is one more at the base. On his left horn you can see it more clearly. I'm not sure when exactly in the winter the ring is formed, but it looks to me as though it has.
I originally thought 8.5, but could be convinced another year at the base like big boar pointed out...

TJ

[proguide66]

Looks easy 10 to me.Take nore winter pic , thick fur , there's a ring at the hair tip line-wich counts at the compulsory.
Side note , to any new guys learning , NEVER age a ram head on before a decision to shoot.I have guided numerous sheep hunts and frontal aging is deffinitely not encouraged for obvious reasons....just my opinion.

[kebes]

I'm getting 9 but wouldn't be surprised to see another ring below the hairline.

[dana]

Here's some side views
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/PC290090a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/PC290144a.jpg

[boxhitch]

Nothing in the world that I am aware of is aged in partial years
Except maybe a 5 3/4 yr old kid trying to be 6

Looks like 7 to me but would want another look to rule out 8
yupp 8

[Rackmastr]

Nothing in the world that I am aware of is aged in partial years
Except maybe a 5 3/4 yr old kid trying to be 6


So true...I'm not sure how I ever got worried about using the 'half year' method as many do. Its stuck with me for a long time, but in reality you're either 8 or 9....no real point in calling the 'half' years.

[dana]

Looks easy 10 to me.Take nore winter pic , thick fur , there's a ring at the hair tip line-wich counts at the compulsory.
Side note , to any new guys learning , NEVER age a ram head on before a decision to shoot.I have guided numerous sheep hunts and frontal aging is deffinitely not encouraged for obvious reasons....just my opinion.

So how did you come up with 10? Like this?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/PC290144b.jpg

[dana]

Nothing in the world that I am aware of is aged in partial years
Except maybe a 5 3/4 yr old kid trying to be 6

Looks like 7 to me but would want another look to rule out 8
yupp 7


So going on the side pics how which of my original count did you drop? The 8th?

[Timberjack]

OK - ready for sheep 2 through 10!!!:-D:-D

[pnbrock]

i would have dropped #10

[kebes]

I'm still going with 9 possibly 10. 1st annuli is the one you've got labeled as two in the above photo and the last is the one you have labeled 10. Maybe there's another one below the hairline but I'm not anywhere near confident enough in aging sheep to bet on that if pulling the trigger was dependent upon it. From the little I know about Bighorns I don't think that the first visible annuli could be a second year ring my guess is that it has to be first. Love to see some diagrams on how the more knowledgeable guys are getting there number!

[dana]

i would have dropped #10

That's how I would have done it too but I ain't no pro like proguide. With the heavy broom, is 1 realistic?

[Deeboe]

Looks to be between 8 1/2 and 9 years old. You can tell he's getting up there in age as the last few years have had less growth.

[TexasWalker]

Nothing in the world that I am aware of is aged in partial years
Except maybe a 5 3/4 yr old kid trying to be 6

Looks like 7 to me but would want another look to rule out 8
yupp 7 How do you get 7?
Id like to see how you came to that conclusion.
What are you 'giving' him for broomed off horn??

Serious question not being a dick....I know you're not a rookie lol

[boxhitch]

Just w.a.g. for the sake of participating. I haven't aged many bighorns

Not sure how to do the artsy stuff
but would say no years missing, the first visible ring is 1. Yearling rams have a lot of growth.
Other rings as Dana marked except at the base
A young ram in its prime of life has a lot of growth yet at the 6-7-8 mark , so i don't see any after the 8 which is maybe really the 7.

To really know what growth is potential for any given area or herd , you have to study the younger sheep. Take a look at the lamb rams , the yearlings and their older bros. That says what they may look like at a later date.
Lesson # 1 should still be with the ewe groups.

[325]

10 years..nice ram!

[Caveman]

10.5 on this one

[just hunt]

I would say 9.5 . the rings at the bases are deceiving.

[hunter1947]

I see 9.5 years old ,, with what I see ...

[Freshtracks]

9.5 on both sides.

[Jack Russell]

My guess is 8+ Very nice looking ram.

[sheep hunter]

9 1/2 years old

[goinghunting]

9 1/2 yrs old but not a full curl ram.

[proguide66]

So how did you come up with 10? Like this?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/PC290144b.jpg

If it werer a stone for sure.I'm not familair with rocky's lamb tip growth , maybe have to change to 9 now...head on is never good.The first pic of the ram you can clearly see a ring at the hair line on forehead.Its never a good idea to use it as 'the' deciding ring unless you are VERY confident , but that ring will count in that pic.

[Walking Buffalo]

So how did you come up with 10? Like this?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/BCBOY/PC290144b.jpg



I'd quess the ram is over 10, 10 3/4 based on the date of the picture, but the last ring is a tough one to be confident in just from pics. My number 3 and 4 align with your pics, I just put the number in the "Pie" for that year's growth, rather than at the annulie. The tenth annulie makes sense when comparing the growth pattern and average reduction of space between annulie rings.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/keetspics/PC2901512.jpg

[GoatGuy]

Just to help:

6 months

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/lamb_ram.JPG

18 months (yearling):
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/yearling_ram.JPG

Class I:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/class_I.JPG

[GoatGuy]

Ring from this year's growth should have been formed in Nov.

Only a few places in BC where rams will have a growth spurt in the winter, need mild conditions good grass for a couple weeks. Golf courses and hay feeders..........

[oscar makonka]

9.75 you need to take the pics in hunting season.

[Mugger]

If the ram has lamb tips without brooming is the tip still count as # one or does is #one at the first ring back from the tip. Do not have experience with aging by years. thanks.