For Your Enjoyment.............OR NOT!

[Jagermeister]

I was looking at the thread, "What lesson have we learned about hunting".http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Decline+moose+population+threatens+hunt/7744105/story.html
The lesson that I learned is that lies and deceit can get you good copy.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/smilies/angry3.gif

[Jack Russell]

Seems completely typical:

SNAFU.

[Big G Hunter]

The natives will Never get their numbers reduced. When you can hunt into Jan-Feb, nobody knows how many moose are being killed. The chief knows they have a problem with the overharvest of moose but can't seem to reign in the people, on not killing more than they need. Moose meat is for sale if you know where to look, so people are spending more than $100 on fuel, not bologna.

The use of quads in non atv areas doesnt really help with the numbers. Witnessed it this year on my moose hunt. They drove around on 2 quads until they got there moose (bull) only took them 4 hours. We hunted on foot for 8 days and never saw a bull.

This is going to be a real sore subject in the coming months...

[Jelvis]

Re plant the area with brushes, willow and natural trees to the area and let it grow up to hide the naked moose.
How would you like it if I took the roof and walls of your house right now, Whoa everyone could see you in your favorite chair
Jel .. The naked moose for allllllll to see .. Put some clothes on.

[hunter1959]

well i did my part for region 5-13a i had a draw and didnt go cause goverment were to slow and letting us know if we could hunt or not so i decided not to go and i know it takes for ever to get a draw but i have been emaling the goverment about how they manage hunting in this area and they dont have a clue what they are doing never get a reply cause they know there a bunch of idoits

[Jagermeister]

I can tell you how it can be fixed. I can tell you why it will not work.
To fix it, hunting of moose has to be totally curtailed. It will not work because the indians will not cooperate in anyway whatsoever.
The indians and guides use the resident hunter as the scapegoat, but the true cause of the moose demise lies solely with the indians.
Bet the guides now wished that they had never entered into their alliance with the indians.
And just as a reminder to the guides, remember who instigated the indian blockade of MOE offices in Williams Lake. Like the indians, you too blame the resident hunter.
The way I see it, The indians and guides wrecked it for everyone!. And as for the wolf involvement, that was coincidental with the retraction of the very short LEH.
F***'em I say, f***'em all.

[Jelvis]

It's the logging of all the trees that killed the area, a moon scape, should be regulated accordingly til the vegetation grows high enuff to cover the area for moose to hide in. imho.
Takes about nine years to grow up like most areas that have been clear cut.
So cut back a bit on LEH for about nine years or so, do have LEH moose but regulate accordingly and it should be fine.
Have patience and work along with the BC environment.
Jel .. Moose and deer need vegetation for cover from wind chill and hunters of all kinds .. humans and animals.

[Panic]

Just let the FN's hunt them all until that area is decimated...they will be up sh!t creek without a paddle at that point. Trouble for them is, they have already been granted their allotment of dirt from the Crown...once they've stripped it of moose and other game they are stuck in a barren wasteland.

The only option for them then is to move their hunts to other areas, and, with the evidence of their abuse of privilege by their eradicating of local species and total absence of land guardianship and conservation, the outcry of injustice and inequality that has been spewing forth from their collective mouths for the last couple hundred years will finally fall on ears that find hypocrisy and outrage in their hollow mewling, and we can finally push for one law for all peoples here in Canada.

[One Shot]

I was looking at the thread, "What lesson have we learned about hunting".http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Decline+moose+population+threatens+hunt/7744105/story.html
The lesson that I learned is that lies and deceit can get you good copy.

I suggest that hunters having seen first hand hunting methods/practices that are out of the norm or other land use practices/issues that may have an imact on moose or other wildlife populations to contact the Wildlife Infometrics of Mackenzie. But do not let it get into a we/they thing.

[Jelvis]

It's easy to make up any stories about anyone, it's called embellishing or maybe not exagerrating but remembering big lol.
Or all out making up stories, called lying. You show me the guy who makes over one hundred grand a year and shot ten to thirty moose like your saying. PM now billjc33 and tell or you could be bsing?
I will personally send a CO to your door to catch this guy, waiting for the details on this post. PM me now!
Jel .. (Some heads are going to roll)

[Jelvis]

I want to know the guy you work with who shot thirty moose in one season, if I knew this guy I would report him to the MINISTRY even if he was a Martian ok?
jel ..

[Wild one]

The reality of it is all user groups had a part in screwing up the moose population. Maybe some had more impact than others but pointing fingers will not solve a thing. In my opinion damage to the habitat is a big one and so are predators but it will take more than just working on these issues.

If you like it or not FN and none FN hunters need to work together if something is going to improve. Pissing and moaning about who should and should not be hunting these moose is going to accomplish nothing.

Both groups remind me of 2 kids fighting over a toy and the end result of that usually is a broken toy no one can play with

Stop looking at who screwed up and figure out how to solve the problem

[HarryToolips]

Here in the Okanagan region, Natives are only allowed by the First Nation Band to shoot bulls and bucks as their "restriction". Maybe First Nations in the Cariboo should do the same..If the MOE really wanted to man up, they'd make the regs the same for everyone, regardless of ethnic origin. Society expects us to be non-prejudiced and look at everyone as "equal" which of course is right, yet they differentiate between us and them..

[Jelvis]

Your wrong on some things tulips, MOE can't do changes they made, they dint make them the are following the Federal Indian Act that was implemented by the Feds. Until you learn this you will be ignorant how the regs work.
The province can't over ride the federal Indian Act, if they could they surely would.
You or I can't change it either. So forget that one. You are not them. And they don't want to be you either lol.
I'm happy in my skin, lol. "They" whose they toolips? It's us. Hahahaha.
.. Bands don't have legal restrictions either, they can't over ride the Indian Act legally, only on a work together with the band members, any band member goes by the Federal Indian Act as an individual not under the band itself or the Chief.
Jel .. Good try lips .. but again ignorant of the laws and reg's and there legal status under Acts and Statutes.

[HarryToolips]

I'm sure they can't over ride the federal Indian Act, but I sure wish they could..The reason the local band has some restrictions here is because they somewhat believe in conservation, it would be nice if other native bands did the same..

[Jelvis]

You say you wish they could, If Wishes were horses many would ride. The bands I know respect animals and fish, they have modern equipment for fish counting and hatcheries, hunting classes for the newbies and help the shut ins to get some wild meat to taste. Some members have masters degrees in education and other careers, some are the head of the salmon conservation board and many others don't hunt too much anymore, some still do. some work with the MOE and some are cops etc, and others work at wildlife projects with both feds and provinces.
Jel .. Heap big workers, and some are in the PBR .. Professional Bull Riders .. Good luck to all in the near future ..

[Stone Sheep Steve]

[QUOTE=HarryToolips;1261285]Here in the Okanagan region, Natives are only allowed by the First Nation Band to shoot bulls and bucks as their "restriction". QUOTE]

As far as I know they restrict themselves to bucks but will shoot cow moose. Population in Reg 8 is currently healthy enough for resident hunters to have a cow moose LEH.

SSS

[uraarchr]

I work with a FN er and he told me what they had hanging in their(traditional) sustenance camp this yr.Cows, calves, bulls does ,bucks.No limit on what each takes because they take what they take and then "give to the elders and poor".Had another FN working with us and he was talkin about 5 deer down last time I talked to him.He started in mid August.Not info passed on by someone else but told to me by them.

[SUAFOYT]

I can tell you how it can be fixed. I can tell you why it will not work.
To fix it, hunting of moose has to be totally curtailed. It will not work because the indians will not cooperate in anyway whatsoever.
The indians and guides use the resident hunter as the scapegoat, but the true cause of the moose demise lies solely with the indians.
Bet the guides now wished that they had never entered into their alliance with the indians.
And just as a reminder to the guides, remember who instigated the indian blockade of MOE offices in Williams Lake. Like the indians, you too blame the resident hunter.
The way I see it, The indians and guides wrecked it for everyone!. And as for the wolf involvement, that was coincidental with the retraction of the very short LEH.
F***'em I say, f***'em all.

Agreed. I could go further but would get banned or Jelvis would be lol'ing all over the place,

[SUAFOYT]

You say you wish they could, If Wishes were horses many would ride. The bands I know respect animals and fish, they have modern equipment for fish counting and hatcheries, hunting classes for the newbies and help the shut ins to get some wild meat to taste. Some members have masters degrees in education and other careers, some are the head of the salmon conservation board and many others don't hunt too much anymore, some still do. some work with the MOE and some are cops etc, and others work at wildlife projects with both feds and provinces.
Jel .. Heap big workers, and some are in the PBR .. Professional Bull Riders .. Good luck to all in the near future ..

If that's the case then IMO you don't know many bands. LOL

And the bands played on LOL

Silly ain't it:cry:

[Jelvis]

If any hunter on here got all his LEH and his wife got her LEH they could legally shoot, plus GOS, they could shoot and fill two garages full, so don't blame an Indian you prolly shot more than I did this past two seasons I got one four point mule buck two seasons ago. Dint get out this season once. And you?
So why bitch? That's not enuff for you? Count them out on here I dare you. Put what your family could bag in 1 year on here
-- How many LEH plus GOS animals are you allowed to shoot in one year, and your still mad at the Indians
Give your head a shakin bacon. Just cuz you need to shoot all types of animals and as many as you can get on LEH and GOS doesn't mean I need to ok?
Haha works both ways sue yer arse off eh! LOL just for you. LOL LOL LOL Your so full of it your eyes are brown.LOL
LOL Haha
Jel lol

[horshur]

this problem is directly related to aggresive pine beetle harvest and the subsequent consequences.....it is the only thing that really changed.

[Wild one]

Jelvis You act like you are in touch with what goes on with a lot of bands and if this is true you KNOW there are some that take beyond there needs. You KNOW there are some that waste and abuse the system. This is not all but the ones that do abuse there rights are often really bad and it often goes un punished. I know some do it thinking the animals will always be there and don't realize there impact.

Coming from FN I know there are bands they can't stand them because of this.

Before you say it yes there are bad poachers of every race and in my opinion there numbers are increasing. There are also those who take beyond there needs legally.

I don't believe all FN's should be painted with the same brush but don't blow smoke up my arse acting like things don't happen. Don't be calling everyone a liar because they say they experienced something wrong involving FN's.

We have enough govt officials blowing smoke already you don't need to add to it

[Jelvis]

Hey Suafoyt you say you can't go any further or you would get Band or too many LOL's from jay lo lol.
And your trying to troll me in by putting down Indian management and blaming them for your problems and you would get banned for what you really think of Aboriginals.
The band I'm referring to is about a twenty minute drive from your place near Clearwater, Haha.
Right across from Lil Fort.
So if you want to put bands down, lol, do the ones farther away from your neighbors, and one more lol for you.
Jel .. Choo Chooo Wah .. your right in the heart (Tum Tum) meaning heart in Shuswap of your so called problem that your making even worse by putting down the local Band and it's disgusting.

[Ambush]

Indians reserves were a mistake way back when. And now they are simply a tragedy. Even more a tragedy that we continue with them. Nothing more than a life sentence to misery, each generation more than the last.

Bad enough when a person makes bad choices and suffers for them. Pitiful when it's your birthright, decided before you were even conceived.

[Jelvis]

OK I'll roll with you Wild one if your lookin to get it right. Sounds like yer "spolin fir a fight", ruAC/DC lol.
You say I'm an actor eh? And your saying that only some natives take more than needed and non natives do to, so what you saying Willis? It sounds equal to me that way then.
Your First Nation? You say Coming from FN, so your FN?
You say things happen and so everyone knows that some, a few are rogue, that's a no brainer that's why you lock your house and truck up, not because everyone is so lawful like you are, they would actually steal from you, wow thanks buddy for warning me, lol. I wasn't born yesterday in Australia I was made in BC.
I wouldn't waste my Smoke on your stinky ass crack lol.
Jel .. Next! Hopefully some one with a whole brain this time ..

[Wild one]

OK I'll roll with you Wild one if your lookin to get it right.
You say I'm an actor eh? And your saying that only some natives take more than needed and non natives do to, so what you saying Willis? It sounds equal to me that way then.
Your First Nation? You say Coming from FN, so your FN?
You say things happen and so everyone knows that some, a few are rogue, that's a no brainer that's why you lock your house and truck up, not because everyone is so lawful like you are, they would actually steal from you, wow thanks buddy for warning me, lol. I wasn't born yesterday in Australia I was made in BC.
I wouldn't waste my Smoke on your stinky butt lol.
Jel .. Next


Not FN just have a few that are good friends. I may have made a typo or it just was not clear to you

Equal I don't think I would go that far in some areas but yes there is abuse by everyone. Some areas it is beyond a few rogue as you put it and also abuse by those who don't think the well can run dry.

Actor no only spitting truth when it is what you want people to hear and calling fowl on anything that you don't want to be heard YES

One thing you may be right about is my butt probably does stink right now because I do feel a little gassy

[edgar11]

this problem is directly related to aggresive pine beetle harvest and the subsequent consequences.....it is the only thing that really changed.
I agree Horshur, I see more logging trucks, loggers and new clear cuts than I do wild game. Every year alot of my favorite hunting spots are cut down and I must look for a new spot on a consistant basis. I remember seeing small parcels cut, leaving spots of trees in between. Now I see vast areas cut down with no areas left for cover for the animals.

[Blktail]

If any hunter on here got all his LEH and his wife got her LEH they could legally shoot, plus GOS, they could shoot and fill two garages full, so don't blame an Indian you prolly shot more than I did this past two seasons I got one four point mule buck two seasons ago. Dint get out this season once. And you?
So why bitch? That's not enuff for you? Count them out on here I dare you. Put what your family could bag in 1 year on here
-- How many LEH plus GOS animals are you allowed to shoot in one year, and your still mad at the Indians
Give your head a shakin bacon. Just cuz you need to shoot all types of animals and as many as you can get on LEH and GOS doesn't mean I need to ok?
Haha works both ways sue yer arse off eh! LOL just for you. LOL LOL LOL Your so full of it your eyes are brown.LOL
LOL Haha
Jel lol

You go Jel! :-D
All you have to do is talk to a CO and you can hear all their stories about good ol' boys out joy riding at night, pissed as newts with loaded guns and spotlights on the seat. Natives can't afford the gas, night vision and spotlights.
There are bad apples everywhere, native, non-native and non-residents. I have run into lots of A**holes in the woods, and none of them were natives.

[SUAFOYT]

Hey Suafoyt you say you can't go any further or you would get Band or too many LOL's from jay lo lol.
And your trying to troll me in by putting down Indian management and blaming them for your problems and you would get banned for what you really think of Aboriginals.
The band I'm referring to is about a twenty minute drive from your place near Clearwater, Haha.
Right across from Lil Fort.
So if you want to put bands down, lol, do the ones farther away from your neighbors, and one more lol for you.
Jel .. Choo Chooo Wah .. your right in the heart (Tum Tum) meaning heart in Shuswap of your so called problem that your making even worse by putting down the local Band and it's disgusting.

Indian Management (your words)- Oxymoron

[Wild one]

I agree Horshur, I see more logging trucks, loggers and new clear cuts than I do wild game. Every year alot of my favorite hunting spots are cut down and I must look for a new spot on a consistant basis. I remember seeing small parcels cut, leaving spots of trees in between. Now I see vast areas cut down with no areas left for cover for the animals.

This is a big problem and now add that all groups continue to take the same or more game out of these areas and this is how we reach the problem we are in. How pine beetle is dealt with and logging practices need changes but the damage will not recover over night

This is why I said in my first post of this thread the FN and non FN hunters need to work together rather than piss and moan about who gets to hunt these moose. If both parties continue to think about the right to hunt these animals rather than how to fix the problem over time we get left with nothing. Govt has stepped up an cut guide and resident quotas now I just hope FN hunters in this area are willing to take a hit to the numbers they harvest like the rest of the hunters.

It is plain to see with the habitat now it does not support the population that can with stand the numbers being harvested by all groups combined

[Jelvis]

And now SUAFOYT you won't stop, calling Indian Managers morons, can't you stop yourself, are you obsessed with your discomfort with Indians, where were you born?
Jel .. tell us your back ground so we can understand your distinct dislike for your local band members ..

[Jagermeister]

this problem is directly related to aggresive pine beetle harvest and the subsequent consequences.....it is the only thing that really changed.
I don't entirely agree with this.
This started long before the pine beetle became epidemic. This started with the mismanagement of moose seasons beginning in the mid '80s. The LEH that was implemented in Region 7 altered the preferred hunting area to that of Region 5 which was very liberal. Full GOS for moose throughout Region 5 caused an increase in hunting pressure to the zone.
In the late 80's/early '90's, the regional biologist in his wisdom decided to implement a partial LEH. By partial, I mean there was an early LEH from the opening on or about the Sept. 12 until the end of the month. There was a closure during the rut from the beginning of Oct. to the 15th. Then there was a bull moose GOS from the 16th of October to the end of the month followed by another LEH opening from Nov.1 to mid month.
I can tell you personally that the mid October BM GOS was a total annilation, hunters from all over the province were everywhere throughout the region. The biologist was informed, but he is the man in the know, and chose not to react. In few short years, the moose population collapsed and the GOS was extinguished. The only moose hunting was strictly LEH from the mid '90s onward. It was a matter of a few years (3-5) that a population recovery was well on the way. Hunters pushed for an immature (forkhorn) opening and it was granted only to be retracted almost immedieately with pressure from the demonstration of the indians on MOE offices in Williams Lake. The immature moose opening was allowed to continue on the east side of the Fraser for that year but did not happen thereafter.
By 2005, there were ample moose to conduct the LEH and have a immature moose hunt too. However, that never came to pass, still opposition from the other user groups. All during the while, the wolves were on the increase due to an increased larder and no incidental kill by hunters as there were not many hunters about and the indians were not doing the job.
Factor in massive clearcut from the pine beetle and it definitely made it easier to spot the swampdonkey on yonder hill. But remember, the area was under total LEH, so you can hardly say that the harvest increased substantially over and above any allotment for the resident hunter.
(I don't think that moose are as dependent on mature timber as mule deer are.)
If you remember some Chilotin areas prior to the beetle epidemic, you would remember vast stands of pecker pole. The trees rarely went beyond 25' in height and <6" in dia. A rabbit would be hard pressed to pass between the trunks of those trees. I asked a PF about that and he told me that those trees were the aftermath of previous fires. He said that it would be nothing to count 100 year rings in the stand and that their growth was limited by the density of regrowth. He also said that investigation revealed that the area had sustained many wildfires over the course of time. He said that the indians would have been largely responsible as this was a customary practice of theirs for regenerating forbs.
As I said previously, to bring the moose back in a timely fashion (10-15 years), the indians and guides are going to have to stop shooting moose altogether. Of course, there has to be no LEH and whether the "conservationists" like it or not, there has to be a wolf eradication initialtive. Mother nature might alter the wolf population, but the other ungulates demise will certainly come into play at what cost to them?
Can it be done? I would challenge Alphonse and the guides to rise to the occasion but I will not hold my breath in the meanwhile.
And since MOE and MOF are "integrated" now, it would seem easier to accomplish prescribed burns. Say, maybe those indians could get involved again.
Make some Stampede money.

[Jelvis]

Might be good to cut back on LEH, the bag limits and generous open seasons and the array of LEH.
People say no animals to hunt like b4. Next meeting we have with the ministry i will bring this up.
If you apply for leh and get them and a member of your family, plus hunting GOS also, a hunting family of two could shoot at least six deer, two moose, a couple sheep, bears, elk, caribou, goat, bison and more.
Way too much if your all saying an Indian shouldn't shoot a moose and yet take 20 different animals in a two people family.
Sounds kindah foolish to complain and want more and want the Indians to get less, hypocritical to say the least.
Think about how many just two people family can kill and want more .. maybe a cut back like your insisting on will happen
Jellicanz .. I am slowly coming to this conclusion after seeing hundreds of threads against native hunting.
It makes a person change their mind on things and become on guard .. and defence ive .. and wanting to promote it.

[bob the tomato]

well jelvis that sounds like a whole lotta ifs to me! All I know is shooting a cow in a clear cut at night is still not moral on any level. So saying i might get all these animals hunting in a 7-14 day hunt (during daylight hours)...? Really? And even if I did get ALL my tags filled I still have a limit!!!!! Stop comparing apples to oranges and get your head outta your ass!

[The Dude]

Pretty simple to most of us: If you're going to use White Man's tools, you use White Man's rules.

Nuff said.

[tackdriver]

Pretty simple to most of us: If you're going to use White Man's tools, you use White Man's rules.

Nuff said. couldnt agree more, rifles, ford pickup, aluminum boat, nylon net, outbord motor all non native

[Jelvis]

Ok you got it but I'm (all Canadian), so I'll use Canuck tools and you can't be all riled on me being a Canuckle Head.
Haha I'm all Canadian from the bottom of my feet to the top of my head. I was born here, my mom was born here, my gramma was born here, and my great great gramma was born here. My dad was born here, and my sons and daughters were born here. So would it be ok with you if I took a small whitetailed deer? Please I tried with a stick but I need my ott 6.
Jel -- To tell you the truth I don't enjoy your food @ MacDonalds too much

[Jagermeister]

Might be good to cut back on LEH, the bag limits and generous open seasons and the array of LEH.
People say no animals to hunt like b4.
If you apply for leh and get them and a member of your family, plus hunting GOS also, a hunting family of two could shoot at least six deer, two moose, a couple sheep, bears, elk, caribou, goat, bison and more.
Way too much if your all saying an Indian shouldn't shoot a moose and yet take 20 different animals in a two people family.
Sounds kindah foolish to complain and want more and want the Indians to get less, hypocritical to say the least.
Think about how many just two people family can kill and want more .. maybe a cut back like your insisting on will happen
Jellicanz .. I am slowly coming to this conclusion after seeing hundreds of threads against native hunting.
It makes a person change their mind on things and become on guard .. and defence ive .. and wanting to promote it.
I don't know how you arrive at the content for your posts but I suspect that you have your head in a cloud.......ganga cloud that is.
"If you apply for leh and get them and a member of your family, plus hunting GOS also, a hunting family of two could shoot at least six deer, two moose, a couple sheep, bears, elk, caribou, goat, bison and more."
I printed that in pink because that would be utopia for a family of two to score that. The probablility would be akin of winning back to back LottoMax.
Defend indians all you want, but the fact of the matter is, they are the "loose cannons". They have no accountability for their harvest which they don't report.
Now talking about poachers. You would think that the indians, in the course of their midnight forays for their moose, would encounter the odd whiteman pitlamper since both abound at the same time. You would think that the indians would be turning the white interlopers in. That's not happening. Why? Probably because birds of a feather, fluck together.

[SUAFOYT]

I don't know how you arrive at the content for your posts but I suspect that you have your head in a cloud.......ganga cloud that is.
"If you apply for leh and get them and a member of your family, plus hunting GOS also, a hunting family of two could shoot at least six deer, two moose, a couple sheep, bears, elk, caribou, goat, bison and more."
I printed that in pink because that would be utopia for a family of two to score that. The probablility would be akin of winning back to back LottoMax.
Defend indians all you want, but the fact of the matter is, they are the "loose cannons". They have no accountability for their harvest which they don't report.
Now talking about poachers. You would think that the indians, in the course of their midnight forays for their moose, would encounter the odd whiteman pitlamper since both abound at the same time. You would think that the indians would be turning the white interlopers in. That's not happening. Why? Probably because birds of a feather, fluck together.


Careful, careful:wink:

[Wild one]

Might be good to cut back on LEH, the bag limits and generous open seasons and the array of LEH.
People say no animals to hunt like b4. Next meeting we have with the ministry i will bring this up.
If you apply for leh and get them and a member of your family, plus hunting GOS also, a hunting family of two could shoot at least six deer, two moose, a couple sheep, bears, elk, caribou, goat, bison and more.
Way too much if your all saying an Indian shouldn't shoot a moose and yet take 20 different animals in a two people family.
Sounds kindah foolish to complain and want more and want the Indians to get less, hypocritical to say the least.
Think about how many just two people family can kill and want more .. maybe a cut back like your insisting on will happen
Jellicanz .. I am slowly coming to this conclusion after seeing hundreds of threads against native hunting.
It makes a person change their mind on things and become on guard .. and defence ive .. and wanting to promote it.


A few flaws to your thinking

1) It is going to take a hell of a lot of luck to get the number of LEH's you are suggesting as a poll showed on HBH showed most are only lucky enough to pull 1 or 2 LEH and very few get more than that.

2) Do to regulations in each region most non FN hunters need to do a lot of travel to harvest those numbers which makes less impact on game populations. FN hunters can take higher numbers out of one local area making a larger impact.

3) The expenses involved for non FN hunters to harvest the numbers you suggest would not be affordable to most house holds do to the travelling involved to do so.

It is highly unlikely scenario you are suggesting but yes for a very small number of house holds under a highly unlikely chance of the stars and moon alining to make it legal to do so it could happen. There is also a chance that the world was going to end a few days ago but that was unlikely as well.

[Elk-Aholic]

[QUOTE=HarryToolips;1261285]Here in the Okanagan region, Natives are only allowed by the First Nation Band to shoot bulls and bucks as their "restriction". QUOTE]

As far as I know they restrict themselves to bucks but will shoot cow moose. Population in Reg 8 is currently healthy enough for resident hunters to have a cow moose LEH.

SSS

SSS, you don't even want to see what the band is doing around here....If it has eye's that glow and fur, it's hitting the ground plain and simple! Been pretty much a so called 'slaughter' to say the least locally. That is first hand and witnessed on numerous accounts unfortunatly. Not to mention the confirmed accounts(and cross-refrenced) of this happening as well. Will be interesting in a few years if this harvest keeps up what will happen.

[Jelvis]

On GOS alone ( your family of four) could shoot at least 12 deer, 4 spike fork moose, 4 elk, 4 bears and now add your LEH.
Plus geese, ducks, grouse, chukars, turkey, pidgon, snipe, wood cock and your complaining?
C'mon man!
.. Where's your head at? Check the brain. I can't believe what I'm seeing here. I'm lol ing again.
I've gone from lol to rotflmao :-D Take yer hed outta the troff .. for a minute and look around the world .. your spoiled
Jelly Head Cheese .. Please just for once say I got you on this one .. could yah .. just one time say it

[Elk-Aholic]

On GOS alone ( your family of four) could shoot at least 12 deer, 4 spike fork moose, 4 elk, 4 bears and now add your LEH.
Plus geese, ducks, grouse, chukars, turkey, pidgon, snipe, wood cock and your complaining?
C'mon man!
.. Where's your head at? Check the brain. I can't believe what I'm seeing here. I'm lol ing again.
I've gone from lol to rotflmao :-D Take yer hed outta the troff .. for a minute and look around the world .. your spoiled
Jelly Head Cheese .. Please just for once say I got you on this one ..

Now in refering to ALL of BC and not just one area is a tad different. And it would be nice if everyone had a family of 4 and everyone in that family hunted. However, I have a feeling most family's are lucky to have 2 people who hunt in them. Yes, distribute the pressure and fully agree, one person can harvest a lot of game in BC. But one person can't harvest that many animals in one MU, and that's for a reason with season and AA's. We are spoiled in BC more than anywhere else in North America. We have the most liberal season out there and have the ability to harvest just about any animal with an over the counter tag. Talk about getting your cake and eating it too! BC is a wonderful place.

IMHO, it sounds like most people are not upset with the fact certain user groups harvest animals for their personal use, they are upset with the fact they are selling the meat on the side which obviously they don't need. And it's who they sell the meat too. Again, just how I'm reading this thread.

[Wild one]

On GOS alone ( your family of four) could shoot at least 12 deer, 4 spike fork moose, 4 elk, 4 bears and now add your LEH.
Plus geese, ducks, grouse, chukars, turkey, pidgon, snipe, wood cock and your complaining?
C'mon man!
.. Where's your head at? Check the brain. I can't believe what I'm seeing here. I'm lol ing again.
I've gone from lol to rotflmao :-D Take yer hed outta the troff .. for a minute and look around the world .. your spoiled
Jelly Head Cheese .. Please just for once say I got you on this one .. could yah .. just one time say it


How much travelling and time do you think it would take most families to do this legally?

What kind of budget do you think the average family has for hunting?

How much time off work do you think most hunter have to hunt?

Now think about the seasons in BC, budget, Point restriction, sex restrictions ,and available time the average hunter has.

Legally possible yes realistic no

Now being able to harvest the same animals with no restrictions on sex, antler configuration, time of year, daylight, or having to spread out over multiple MU's a little easier you have to agree.

The reason the seasons are set the way they are is to spread out the impact of hunting so most will not take even close to there full bag limit.

I don't have a problem with FN's hunting but I do have issues on how it is done by a conservation stand point. The honour system just does not work because most(FN and non FN a like) do not understand how to limit there impact on population. It also leaves things too open to abuse without consequences.

The reality of it is I do not condone non FN's harvesting there legal max either but it is made a hell of a lot harder for non FN to do so by the regs we have to follow. This is why there should be more regs on FN harvest to limit impact and abuse

Can you justify harvesting game at sensitive times without a limit with a reason other than it is FN right?

Can you tell me the benefits of this as a conservation stand point?

Yes FN's may have taken game as they seen fit in the past without too much impact but the world has changed.

A change in practices is needed if it is done by FN's make rule amongst them selves or brought on by the Canadian govt. It is not about FN rights it is about what is the correct thing to do to benefit game populations

[BlacktailStalker]

Best post to sum up FN issues I've seen in a long time.

[Jelvis]

As a non native hunter in British Columbia you can as one hunter, an individual, shoot three deer to eat, you can get a spike/fork bull moose, a six point elk, a bear and birds, one person couldn't eat all that meat by the time next season started.
You would be eating meat for breakfast, brunch, lunch and supper with a snack of liver and onions b4 bed, every day til the next season. What does that say about your liberal hunting opportunities hunting in B.C.?
One moose, 400 pounds of pure meat, elk 300 pounds of meat after butchering, three deer 300 pounds of meat together, a bear 150 pounds, birds 30 pounds minimum = 1200 pounds of meat after butchering. Now add LEH on top of that.
Over half a ton of processed meat for one individual. And you want more?
You bought a fancy four wheel so you got the gas, and your on your way with your magnum and at least 60 rounds of ammo. Your friend is with you and they have all the same tags as you. It's a free for all ..
You hit East Gate and the Whip, you walk the slopes of Keremeous or hit Cache Crick or the Tunkwa hills and gullies, then shoot up to PG or out to the East Koots.
What's the problem?
.. and you still got time to rag on a lonely native hunter, with no vehicle and no gas money, that walks out from a one room cabin, to try to get close to an animal to harvest, so he can provide for his pregnant wife and kid. He has to drag it home if he is lucky enuff to get it within four km of his place, in the valley far below. He has to be a straight shooter also, he has only three bullets in his old iron sighted .303 British is all he could borrow from his elderly frail neighbor.
The snow has fallen, and the bitter cold has froze the snow on top, making the old warrior struggle to hike up the steep icy slope, he looks back, way down the mountain, and sees the candle light flickering in the one window he hasn't boarded up.
He weeps for his pregnant wife who sits hoping her husband will get an animal to eat so her new born will have strength and her lil girl, Princess, can eat something other than Kraft dinner and a crust of bread.
. The Old Warrior gasps and shivers as he tries to hike up where there might be a deer, cuz a moose would be too heavy to drag down three miles for one old wrinkled dancer.
Jelly .. count yer blessings

[Jagermeister]

As a non native hunter in British Columbia you can as one hunter, an individual, shoot three deer to eat, you can get a spike/fork bull moose, a six point elk, a bear and birds, one person couldn't eat all that meat by the time next season started.
You would be eating meat for breakfast, brunch, lunch and supper with a snack of liver and onions b4 bed, every day til the next season. What does that say about your liberal hunting opportunities hunting in B.C.?
One moose, 400 pounds of pure meat, elk 300 pounds of meat after butchering, three deer 300 pounds of meat together, a bear 150 pounds, birds 30 pounds minimum = 1200 pounds of meat after butchering. Now add LEH on top of that.
Over half a ton of processed meat for one individual. And you want more?
You bought a fancy four wheel so you got the gas, and your on your way with your magnum and at least 60 rounds of ammo. Your friend is with you and they have all the same tags as you. It's a free for all ..
You hit East Gate and the Whip, you walk the slopes of Keremeous or hit Cache Crick or the Tunkwa hills and gullies, then shoot up to PG or out to the East Koots.
What's the problem?
.. and you still got time to rag on a lonely native hunter, with no vehicle and no gas money, that walks out from a one room cabin, to try to get close to an animal to harvest, so he can provide for his pregnant wife and kid. He has to drag it home if he is lucky enuff to get it within four km of his place, in the valley far below. He has to be a straight shooter also, he has only three bullets in his old iron sighted .303 British is all he could borrow from his elderly frail neighbor.
The snow has fallen, and the bitter cold has froze the snow on top, making the old warrior struggle to hike up the steep icy slope, he looks back, way down the mountain, and sees the candle light flickering in the one window he hasn't boarded up.
He weeps for his pregnant wife who sits hoping her husband will get an animal to eat so her new born will have strength and her lil girl, Princess, can eat something other than Kraft dinner and a crust of bread. I betcha you've been eating some superduper brownies, right?

[Jelvis]

Brownies? What does brownies got to do with this thread on changes to GOS and LEH because of low numbers reported by hunters and Bio's?
You must have got on the wrong one by mistake, try the cooking forum on hbc.

[Ambush]

Nobody's talking about that old native Jel. It's that bunch driving around in the loaded, F350 4X4, floors littered with cans, chip bags and fast food wrappers, radio blasting and and scoped rifles ready to stick out the window. They don't need a moose anymore than I do. How do all those people get so heavy if they're starving? I've worked with and for Indians and none of them act like these trouble makers. The more remote the reserve the more the problems!

True enough that some white jerks do the same, but WHEN THEY GET CAUGHT, THEY GET CHARGED!!!

How do you type when your blind? Braille keyboard?

[Jelvis]

If someone is driving around in a Ford like your saying and has a high paying job they ain't going to be hiking or walking far. Maybe step out for a quick whiz, cuz it's too cold out. The moose know not to come close to a road because the mother taught them to stay away from humans as much as possible, they are enemies she tells them in moose talk.
Of course some forget and will walk out and look but not many. They learn over time people harm them.
The moose you see by a road is one thing but there are moose way back off the road in swamps and meadows far back off the road, maybe three k or more where no roads are, so you would need a boat. A road hunter can only see so far off a road and deal with other road warriors driving back n forth all day scaring everything in the area, they smell the stinky diesal and hear crazy noises.
Lots of road hunters in hunting season but most stay near the warm truck, some being native.
Jel .. If a person is over weight also they won't be walking or hiking, prolly just out for a drive with the boys like you say.

[Jack Russell]

Holy moly is all I got to say, or maybe whoa jelly, I mean nelly....

[Jagermeister]

Nobody's talking about that old native Jel. It's that bunch driving around in the loaded, F350 4X4, floors littered with cans, chip bags and fast food wrappers, radio blasting and and scoped rifles ready to stick out the window. They don't need a moose anymore than I do. How do all those people get so heavy if they're starving? I've worked with and for Indians and none of them act like these trouble makers. The more remote the reserve the more the problems!

True enough that some white jerks do the same, but WHEN THEY GET CAUGHT, THEY GET CHARGED!!!

How do you type when your blind? Braille keyboard?
Funny you should mention radio blasting. I had a duallie F350 4X4 go by the other day and the stereo was zonking out some heavy duty "drumming". I thought to myself, "How long could a person listen to that same monotonous beat?" Especially if you're not hanging around some courthouse steps. I didn't follow along to find out.

[edgar11]

On GOS alone ( your family of four) could shoot at least 12 deer, 4 spike fork moose, 4 elk, 4 bears and now add your LEH.
Plus geese, ducks, grouse, chukars, turkey, pidgon, snipe, wood cock and your complaining?
C'mon man!
.. Where's your head at? Check the brain. I can't believe what I'm seeing here. I'm lol ing again.
I've gone from lol to rotflmao :-D Take yer hed outta the troff .. for a minute and look around the world .. your spoiled
Jelly Head Cheese .. Please just for once say I got you on this one .. could yah .. just one time say it

Your wasting your time Jel. The real argument and the bottom line is who gets the Game in BC? They claim conservation but really its "I don't want to share hunting with anybody", especially "the Indians". GREED,GREED,GREED, you can't argue with that. Throw in a little racism and thats what you got to work with. The pecking order is Conservation, First Nation and then everybody else, thats all you need to know. Watch it now there Looper, your face is turning blue.

[Wild one]

As a non native hunter in British Columbia you can as one hunter, an individual, shoot three deer to eat, you can get a spike/fork bull moose, a six point elk, a bear and birds, one person couldn't eat all that meat by the time next season started.
You would be eating meat for breakfast, brunch, lunch and supper with a snack of liver and onions b4 bed, every day til the next season. What does that say about your liberal hunting opportunities hunting in B.C.?
One moose, 400 pounds of pure meat, elk 300 pounds of meat after butchering, three deer 300 pounds of meat together, a bear 150 pounds, birds 30 pounds minimum = 1200 pounds of meat after butchering. Now add LEH on top of that.
Over half a ton of processed meat for one individual. And you want more?
You bought a fancy four wheel so you got the gas, and your on your way with your magnum and at least 60 rounds of ammo. Your friend is with you and they have all the same tags as you. It's a free for all ..
You hit East Gate and the Whip, you walk the slopes of Keremeous or hit Cache Crick or the Tunkwa hills and gullies, then shoot up to PG or out to the East Koots.
What's the problem?
.. and you still got time to rag on a lonely native hunter, with no vehicle and no gas money, that walks out from a one room cabin, to try to get close to an animal to harvest, so he can provide for his pregnant wife and kid. He has to drag it home if he is lucky enuff to get it within four km of his place, in the valley far below. He has to be a straight shooter also, he has only three bullets in his old iron sighted .303 British is all he could borrow from his elderly frail neighbor.
The snow has fallen, and the bitter cold has froze the snow on top, making the old warrior struggle to hike up the steep icy slope, he looks back, way down the mountain, and sees the candle light flickering in the one window he hasn't boarded up.
He weeps for his pregnant wife who sits hoping her husband will get an animal to eat so her new born will have strength and her lil girl, Princess, can eat something other than Kraft dinner and a crust of bread.
. The Old Warrior gasps and shivers as he tries to hike up where there might be a deer, cuz a moose would be too heavy to drag down three miles for one old wrinkled dancer.
Jelly .. count yer blessings



The FN you speak of are a rare breed in todays world most are just as well equipped as any other hunter out there. The poor FN hunting with only what he has made hiking for miles is of the past. This is not how it is in todays world and that is an example of what I mean the world has changed.

You are dodging the real issues like I said in my last post it is plain to see the system in place is failing to manage the wildlife and needs change

To me it is not about FN vs non FN it is about properly looking after game so ALL can use them in the future.

Stop thinking about 1 groups needs and look at the big picture

[Wild one]

Your wasting your time Jel. The real argument and the bottom line is who gets the Game in BC? They claim conservation but really its "I don't want to share hunting with anybody", especially "the Indians". GREED,GREED,GREED, you can't argue with that. Throw in a little racism and thats what you got to work with. The pecking order is Conservation, First Nation and then everybody else, thats all you need to know. Watch it now there Looper, your face is turning blue.

Sorry edgar my motives are far from greed or racist

I won't even fish for salmon do to my opinion they see too much harvest already. I also will not hunt the moose that are in question because I don't think they need my added pressure. There are seasons I believe should be shut down that I will not be part of because of my on views

You may be correct about some but you would be wrong if that is your view on me

[BlacktailStalker]

Yes edgar, scream racism, typical, an easy way out of trying to see the sense in a post, directed at all, that benefits all. I see nowhere did anyone claim they want it all or in any way exclude any particular group. Amazing how sensibility makes others feel cornered.... guilt.
Sad, lack of education, denial, lack of responsibility, just a few things that come to mind. YOU are part of the problem.

[steel_ram]

Crying "Racism", is the easy-out response. Unfortunately the "Whitey did this to us", excuse has become pretty diluted. (as has any aborginal 'race')

[edgar11]

Sorry edgar my motives are far from greed or racist

I won't even fish for salmon do to my opinion they see too much harvest already. I also will not hunt the moose that are in question because I don't think they need my added pressure. There are seasons I believe should be shut down that I will not be part of because of my on views

You may be correct about some but you would be wrong if that is your view on me
Yeah I wasn't talking about you Wild One I was talking about these little jabs some of theses guys throw out and they just won't let it go. Always the same ones too they can't even come up with anything fresh. HAHA.

[edgar11]

Yes edgar, scream racism, typical, an easy way out of trying to see the sense in a post, directed at all, that benefits all. I see nowhere did anyone claim they want it all or in any way exclude any particular group. Amazing how sensibility makes others feel cornered.... guilt.
Sad, lack of education, denial, lack of responsibility, just a few things that come to mind. YOU are part of the problem.
Explain how I am part of the problem? I see your narrow minded, group everyone in the same bunch, the problem. I am quite happy where I am today and don't need somebody like you to try and say I am part of the problem Jack! haha.

[Jelvis]

The old warriors daughter Princess, saw her daddy going out the one room cabins rustic wood door way with his rifle in hand, after he gave her a big bear hug and kissed her on the forehead. She remembered what he said, "Baby girl, pray for daddy so the Creator can hear you, He loves you the way you are, and I do to, don't ever forget that Princess." "You can take care of mommy when daddies gone, for me ok lil one?" "Ok daddy, but I want you to stay with us daddy? "Well Princess, I have to go and see if I can get some sustenance, so we can grow strong and beautiful like you pretty daughter."
I'll talk to heaven daddy, and you will get a deer for us daddy, ok? "You bet lil darlin, take care of mommy and treat her real good ok babe?"
After the old dancer's image walked out and the door closed, Princess cried in mommy's lap, I want daddy to stay with us mommy. I want to go with daddy hunting so I can help him mommy. Then mom hugged Princess warmly by the old warm wood burning pot belly stove in a wooden rocking chair, and rocked her slowly back and forth and said, "Princess your daddy is strong, and brave and he is a good hunter. We love you so much Princess. Now you say a little prayer that daddy will be safe, and he will come back with something for all of us to eat like daddy wanted you to do ok?"
Princess went over to the one clear window and looked at the trail her daddy made, as he stumbled up the rocky terrain among the windfall and dissapeared out of her sight. Princess looked up at the Happy Hunting Grounds and whispered softly but with boldness, " Holy Creator of all things, please help my daddy to come back home to me, I love him more than anything, and please let him see a deer or moose so we can have some good food to eat too, please thank you." Amen.
=-///---------> Princess plays with the dust on the window sill holding back the tears, trying to be brave <--------------\\\=
I need my daddy Creator, tell me that I'm not alone, I need a miracle.
jel

[edgar11]

Crying "Racism", is the easy-out response. Unfortunately the "Whitey did this to us", excuse has become pretty diluted. (as has any aborginal 'race')

What do you call putting down someone because of the color of their skin then? Easy way out? I am just stating the facts Jack, its all written in black and white just read some of the past posts. Your one of the biggest culprits. Call me a liar. Shall I bring up some of your posts..............Didn't think so.

[Ambush]

What do you call putting down someone because of the color of their skin then? .

Edgar, what do you call endowing a "right" onto someone, because of the color of their skin?

[Ambush]

Jelvis. If only that was a true story. There are few children, in NA, to be pitied more than the little ones on many of the reserves in BC.

[edgar11]

Jelvis. If only that was a true story. There are few children, in NA, to be pitied more than the little ones on many of the reserves in BC.

Reserve? Thats funny!

[Ambush]

Reserve? Thats funny!

Nothing funny about reserve life in my opinion.

Edgar; you're likely just a regular, decent guy and you're probably pissed that people are calling down your people. Understandable, but that doesn't make everyone else a racist.

[Panic]

*Edited AFTER going back and reading Jellys post

[edgar11]

Nothing funny about reserve life in my opinion.

Edgar; you're likely just a regular, decent guy and you're probably pissed that people are calling down your people. Understandable, but that doesn't make everyone else a racist.
No, what was funny was that the story Jel told, you automatically thought he was talking about a kid on a reserve. Nowhere did he even say it was about FN. Panic didn't get it either.Too funny.

[edgar11]

Nothing funny about reserve life in my opinion.

Edgar; you're likely just a regular, decent guy and you're probably pissed that people are calling down your people. Understandable, but that doesn't make everyone else a racist.
Not calling everyone racist, just stating that there are SOME on here who post racist remarks is all. Just calling a spade a spade.

[Ambush]

No, what was funny was that the story Jel told, you automatically thought he was talking about a kid on a reserve. Nowhere did he even say it was about FN. Panic didn't get it either.Too funny.

Plenty of language, in the story, to denote the characters' racial/cultural origins. But I guess, at this point, you're just more interested in making fun of whitey.

Fine, I'm done. No profit in this.

[Jelvis]

The old warrior was huffing and puffing his way up the grassy slope mixed with boulders and semi open forest. He was an elder, but his legs were strong and muscled from hunting the slope year after year. His arms were rock hard from chopping wood and laboring his whole life by his cabin. He stopped and rested against a huge rounded smooth rock. Freddy strained his eyes into the thick fir trees, and as he did he thought of the Creator and began a candid talk with his best friend, who he couldn't actually see, but Fred knew He was listening. "Creator thanks for your Son, Jesus, who I will never leave, when the walls were closing in on my life, He was right beside me, thanks I owe you my life," Please watch over my precious baby Princess, and her mommy, and our new one coming soon, while I look for a deer or moose I appreciate it Lord.."
Just then a movement caught the hunters eye, Freddy crouched down, got his rifle ready, safety off and held it tight with trigger ready. Sure enough a fat two point bull moose walked slowly into view and stopped between a rock and a fir tree broadside, the bull stood still staring towards Freddy. Fred whispered to himself, pull up, hold steady behind the shoulder, BOOM! The bull turned and ran down hill like a run a way freight train. Freddy quickly walked up to the spot where the two point turned to run. Some crimson red blood had splashed onto the crusty snow. Freddy nelt down and took some tobacco out of his little deer hide pouch and held it up towards the grey cloudy sky, and started to pray, Creator I surrender all to the promises you made and I thank you for this blessing and for the life this moose has surrenderd to me, for Princess and family."
Freddy took off following the moose that he had hit hard behind the shoulder running straight down like a hurricane.
Freddy walked fast after the wounded spike/fork bull moose and as he did he realized he was still in great shape physically and spiritually. He felt crisp and alive as he made his way down on the blood trail and after an hour of meandering down, Freddy saw in the distance a flickering light and just then he came across the two point bull, dead and laying on it's back.
As Fred looked at the warm dancing light in the window of his one room cabin he saw his Princess looking up into the sky
Freddy was home at last and Princess ran out into his arms gigling falling into Freddy's wide open arms.
.. Whom shall I fear when daddy's near
jelly -- Welcome home I know you by name

[Panic]

No, what was funny was that the story Jel told, you automatically thought he was talking about a kid on a reserve. Nowhere did he even say it was about FN. Panic didn't get it either.Too funny.

Get it? I don't read Jelvis's posts anymore...my head has a sore spot from scratching in confusion over some of his posts...Sorry Jel, not meaning offense there :)

I'm not racist in the slightest...my family is an advert for united colors of Benetton, lol. I only want to see equality across the board...not too much to ask, right.

[The Dude]

Funny you say that Panic, I do the same thing. If I try to decipher the posts, it makes my brain hurt ;-)
(No offence , J, love your work)

[The Dawg]

What do you call putting down someone because of the color of their skin then? Easy way out? I am just stating the facts Jack, its all written in black and white just read some of the past posts. Your one of the biggest culprits. Call me a liar. Shall I bring up some of your posts..............Didn't think so.


Cant you leave colour out of this?

:D

[rainman]

ive been trying hard not to add to this post,but i cant help it,i have seen many times fn hunting,fishing which i consider unethical and detrimental to the species targeted....an actual story that was locked by mods a couple years ago,i was moose hunting alaska highway and was lucky enough to get a young bull the 2nd day aug 16 a couple days later i get pulled over by a co,he looks at my tag and says wow you got a moose to which i respond where are all the moose?nobody is getting anything..the co says well 2 weeks before opening day 5 fn came in here and set up camp and shot 28 moose,cows ,calfs,bulls....ceremonial purposes....this is not 2nd hand news he said she said, straight out of cos mouth to me....i dont blame fn...i blame our lame ass chicken shit government for allowing this to happen.......lets settle once and for all with fn i know they got a raw deal before buts lets settle and all be canadians and all live under the same laws

[steel_ram]

What do you call putting down someone because of the color of their skin then? Easy way out? I am just stating the facts Jack, its all written in black and white just read some of the past posts. Your one of the biggest culprits. Call me a liar. Shall I bring up some of your posts..............Didn't think so.

Are you asking me to call you a liar? You lose. Bring up some of my past posts since of I'm, "one of the biggest culprits".

I have nieces and nephews who hold status cards. Looking at them, blonde or redheads, fair skinned. "Race" apparently has nothing to do with it. It's become a joke. That's what I mean by diluted. A homogenized race, nationally and no doubt eventually globally, except for those that have happened to hand down "special privilege" cards down through the generations.

Having the present unequalities doesn't and will not ever work. I would like to see rights equal for everyone. That makes me racist?

[edgar11]

ive been trying hard not to add to this post,but i cant help it,i have seen many times fn hunting,fishing which i consider unethical and detrimental to the species targeted....an actual story that was locked by mods a couple years ago,i was moose hunting alaska highway and was lucky enough to get a young bull the 2nd day aug 16 a couple days later i get pulled over by a co,he looks at my tag and says wow you got a moose to which i respond where are all the moose?nobody is getting anything..the co says well 2 weeks before opening day 5 fn came in here and set up camp and shot 28 moose,cows ,calfs,bulls....ceremonial purposes....this is not 2nd hand news he said she said, straight out of cos mouth to me....i dont blame fn...i blame our lame ass chicken shit government for allowing this to happen.......lets settle once and for all with fn i know they got a raw deal before buts lets settle and all be canadians and all live under the same laws
It sounds like you are quoting 3rd hand information and if you want to believe it then go right ahead. As far as settling and all be canadians, that might be a little more difficult. Treaties were signed so that BOTH parties would benefit from this great land of ours. That did not happen. The government seems to have the upper hand on that one.Then there are those that did not sign any treaties. They are being told to do what the government tells them. Thats why you see blockades and the like because the FN want a say in what the government is doing to this great land of ours. Some people see that as whining, etc, etc etc. It depends on how you look at it and how open minded you are on the big picture. One land, one law?......The government won't allow that to happen because they do not see it as a partnership with the FN but more like they think they need to look after them because they know whats best. I think most of us want the same things but we can only do what the government tells us to do.

[rainman]

It sounds like you are quoting 3rd hand information and if you want to believe it then go right ahead. As far as settling and all be canadians, that might be a little more difficult. Treaties were signed so that BOTH parties would benefit from this great land of ours. That did not happen. The government seems to have the upper hand on that one.Then there are those that did not sign any treaties. They are being told to do what the government tells them. Thats why you see blockades and the like because the FN want a say in what the government is doing to this great land of ours. Some people see that as whining, etc, etc etc. It depends on how you look at it and how open minded you are on the big picture. One land, one law?......The government won't allow that to happen because they do not see it as a partnership with the FN but more like they think they need to look after them because they know whats best. I think most of us want the same things but we can only do what the government tells us to do.i truly believe that most of us non fn hunters are not racist,but it is hard for us to see 2 different laws 1 for fn 1 for non fn...this is the giant stumbling block...i dont know what the answer is but this is where the problems arise.....what do the fn want from the government so that we are all on the same page

[Jelvis]

If the Federal and provincial governments could make a once and for all settlement with every Status native in Canada it could happen. Sell off all reservation land in Canada to the highest bidders, take all that cash and then the so called ten billion they spend on the Indian Act and Indian and northern affairs budget each year, divide up and give the cash without tax take off and then it's done, period. Get rid of the huge government buildings and people working for the northern affairs costing people billions that don't even go to natives but their employees.
I would go for that cuz it would be a final settlement. Done. All live as every one else.
Many would do it, some wouldn't so it would have to be a vote and if the majority said ok. Done.
But the governemt wouldn't do that, they make too much money from all the jobs they have operating the huge ship and all the employees from the top that trickles down and gone b4 it hits any native. It's a money making machine they want going.
Until then the Staus Quo no pun intended, it ain't happening so we live just the way it is. No changes.
Jel

[rainman]

jel you are are starting to make sense:-D

[edgar11]

i truly believe that most of us non fn hunters are not racist,but it is hard for us to see 2 different laws 1 for fn 1 for non fn...this is the giant stumbling block...i dont know what the answer is but this is where the problems arise.....what do the fn want from the government so that we are all on the same page
A Say, A Voice(especially on environmental issues) and like Jel said, some finalization. Put everything on the table and be done with it. Like I said, I think most want the same things but cannot go forward until the government decides to.

[Whonnock Boy]

A Say, A Voice(especially on environmental issues)

This gets back to equality. Why should your voice be heard any more than mine/his/hers/ours? Our collective voices are heard when we vote. Sounds like you want to part of a minority that runs our nation.

When I watched the 8th Fire there was a native comedian on there. His one statement holds the same sentiments as yours. "We should be kings".

[The Dude]

Not calling everyone racist, just stating that there are SOME on here who post racist remarks is all. Just calling a spade a spade.

Man, that's so racist.

[hunter1947]

First off the top I am not RACIST toward any people I have some good friends that are natives ,,,the way I see this thread it is to do with our Government and no others ,,want to point fingers point them at who is running our country ,not the natives the government are the ones to blame..


We are the ones that vote for our government ,,blame our government if it comes down to reduction for nonnative hunting in any area blame the government for what they do ,,the government have to put a stop to giving whats ours to natives the government has to start looking into the mirror and say enough is enough..

We can't keep putting candy into native hands every time they start squawking about what they want ,,lets face it we the white man women and the natives have to agree on what is the right thing to do and WHAT IS THE WRONG THING TO DO ,IT CAN'T BE ONE SIDED ALL THE TIME ,,we the white man women as for the natives got to both do what is right in order to be able to hunt along side each other...

[Jack Russell]

[QUOTE=Jelvis;1262030]If the Federal and provincial governments could make a once and for all settlement with every Status native in Canada it could happen. Sell off all reservation land in Canada to the highest bidders, take all that cash and then the so called ten billion they spend on the Indian Act and Indian and northern affairs budget each year, divide up and give the cash without tax take off and then it's done, period. Get rid of the huge government buildings and people working for the northern affairs costing people billions that don't even go to natives but their employees.
I would go for that cuz it would be a final settlement. Done. All live as every one else.
Many would do it, some wouldn't so it would have to be a vote and if the majority said ok. Done.
But the governemt wouldn't do that, they make too much money from all the jobs they have operating the huge ship and all the employees from the top that trickles down and gone b4 it hits any native. It's a money making machine they want going.
Until then the Staus Quo no pun intended, it ain't happening so we live just the way it is. No changes.
Jel[/QUOT

If only it was this easy. It will never happen, because it will never be enough. This is far too simple of an answer and solution. No way, Jose...

[Wild one]

If the Federal and provincial governments could make a once and for all settlement with every Status native in Canada it could happen. Sell off all reservation land in Canada to the highest bidders, take all that cash and then the so called ten billion they spend on the Indian Act and Indian and northern affairs budget each year, divide up and give the cash without tax take off and then it's done, period. Get rid of the huge government buildings and people working for the northern affairs costing people billions that don't even go to natives but their employees.
I would go for that cuz it would be a final settlement. Done. All live as every one else.
Many would do it, some wouldn't so it would have to be a vote and if the majority said ok. Done.
But the governemt wouldn't do that, they make too much money from all the jobs they have operating the huge ship and all the employees from the top that trickles down and gone b4 it hits any native. It's a money making machine they want going.
Until then the Staus Quo no pun intended, it ain't happening so we live just the way it is. No changes.
Jel

This is one thing we can agree on FN's and the Canadian govt need to come to a solution to the major issues and be done with it. I do know that this issue not being put to rest is in large part do to the govt. The problem is I have not see a candidate the public could vote for with the balls to address the issue. They all would rather try and band aid the issue to try and look good. We need a govt that does not worry about loosing votes and just gets the job done but I have little faith in that happening

I also know what you mean about FN issue's being used to generate money for a select few. This is a huge problem when it comes to getting a final agreement because these people don't want to loose there cash cow. There is actually a good number on both sides who are very well off because of this.

The solution you mentioned may not be the one to solve the problem but I can see where it comes from

It is kind of creepy when you choose to use some common sense and I bet if you showed this side more often you would have more people listening to what you have to say

[Whonnock Boy]

Considering the FN's of British Columbia are claiming over 100% of the provinces total land mass, do you guys really think there is even a starting point with negotiations? Is there enough money? Are there enough crowns in the Commonwealth for our future Kings and Queens?

In reality, the FN's of Canada are negotiating for what they want, not what they need, which is quite the opposite for the Government of Canada and the people they represent.

[SUAFOYT]

jel you are are starting to make sense:-D

It was a nice try but it won't fly. They'd never, ever agree to the same as anyone else part.

[Jagermeister]

First off the top I am not RACIST toward any people I have some good friends that are natives ,,,the way I see this thread it is to do with our Government and no others ,,want to point fingers point them at who is running our country ,not the natives the government are the ones to blame..


We are the ones that vote for our government ,,blame our government if it comes down to reduction for nonnative hunting in any area blame the government for what they do ,,the government have to put a stop to giving whats ours to natives the government has to start looking into the mirror and say enough is enough..

We can't keep putting candy into native hands every time they start squawking about what they want ,,lets face it we the white man women and the natives have to agree on what is the right thing to do and WHAT IS THE WRONG THING TO DO ,IT CAN'T BE ONE SIDED ALL THE TIME ,,we the white man women as for the natives got to both do what is right in order to be able to hunt along side each other...That pretty well sums it up. Over the past couple of decades, the government has been pandering to much of their demands over a wide spectrum. Just recently the governments entered into aa agreement for a seperate health authority for aboriginals. Talk about a two tier system. And we're going to have to pay more for this.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/12/27/bc-tax-msp-increases.html
The further that we go down that road, the worse it will become. Our tax dollars will be squandered away and there will be no benefit to us as it will be absorbed into native affairs.
In 2004, the Federal budget was $52B, of that, a little over $9B was allocated to the aboriginals. This represents slightly over 18% of the federal budget. The aboriginal population was listed at approximately 500,000. The budget equated to $18,000 per aboriginal person. When you consider the remaining $43B divided by a population of 30 million equates to $1433 per person, indians included. Quite a disparity wouldn't you say?
I tried to get information for more currents years, but the government has changed their reporting method and the information is not so easily gathered as before.
As you can imagine, this goes far beyond moose in the Chilcotin. Nevertheless, why should we put tax dollars into wildlife management if we are to derive no benefit. If we are to be excluded, let the dollars come from their portion of the budget and that is not to include any bugetary increases to offset the costs.
Since aboriginals for the most part do not pay taxes, then the government should be decreasing that budget when it comes to cost cutting measures instead of increasing the tax burden to those of us that are taxable.

[Jelvis]

A Status native only gets just over 2000 dollers to cover the dental for a year, you call that a lot?
But they do cover for medical costs for each month monthly payment for BC medical.
I don't think the governments going broke people, it costs more to clear snow off the roads across Canada.
Jelly Bo Deli .. I'm never going to dis our government

[SUAFOYT]

Most Canadian residents get nothing from the Government for dental care. I don't call that a lot. BC med payments are going up again for the 4th year in a row in BC.

[Jack Russell]

A Status native only gets just over 2000 dollers to cover the dental for a year, you call that a lot?
But they do cover for medical costs for each month monthly payment for BC medical.
I don't think the governments going broke people, it costs more to clear snow off the roads across Canada.
Jelly Bo Deli .. I'm never going to dis our government

Wow! You get $2000 for dental coverage. I get a big fat ZERO in dental coverage, but I guess my teeth weren't here first.

[Jelvis]

I made an error that amount includes the provincial contribution as well so the Feds only supply about 1400 dollars.
The other is provincial around 600 for a particular classification.
In the housing I'm in I pay 500 for a three bedroom town house. No hydro payments either, they pay that also.
They manage everything, cut the lawns, pick up garbage, check furnace every year, fix everything, ans supply brand name washer and dryers, stove fridge etc.
Also get 20 dollars a month for a telephone allowance. Don't pay BC medical either.
I do have a plastic card but like I told b4 in threads I am 25% aboriginal (Shuswap) 50% German, 25% Swiss.
100 % Canadian don't forget that.
My mom was a half native and half swiss from Louis Creek BC just north of Kamloops she was born in Kamloops.
My dad was pure German born in Canada from Canadian (German) parents in a Canuck prairie province.
@ Christmas we get a 250 dollar rebate for over payment on rent.
When I turn 65 I don't know what is going to happen, or what will change on Old age pension.qo
Jel .. No taxes for anything bought on a rez, cars, trucks new or used, liqour, ciggy butts or restaurants or gas stations
Wall Mart or A+W .. Mobile homes and what not. I would like the governments to make a final payout to each Status and get this over with. Get rid of their cash cow running this whole thing in Ottawa trickle down, sell the whole kitten kah bootle, reserve lands, buildings, equipment, offices, people who work for the Indian affairs which are not even native by the thousands sucking the blood out of the taxes we pay at retail stores
shut down Indian affairs, fire everybody and close shop.

[edgar11]

I agree with you Jager shut it all down. Almost none of those resources even go to the commoner anyway. Like Jel said, most of the people working at INAC are not even FN. The government like to SHOW they are doing something but in reality they are doing diddly squat. I never seen this 2000 dollars for dental, I use my plan through work. I, like you, pay taxes and I think its being wasted too!

[SUAFOYT]

I agree with you Jager shut it all down. Almost none of those resources even go to the commoner anyway. Like Jel said, most of the people working at INAC are not even FN. The government like to SHOW they are doing something but in reality they are doing diddly squat. I never seen this 2000 dollars for dental, I use my plan through work. I, like you, pay taxes and I think its being wasted too!

So if it's "time" to get rid of it all, and it's a waste, then why is another "last" payout necessary?

[Jelvis]

I forgot the no hunting license required, or tags,
Sorry, and no fishing license to buy.
Fish with nets in any place or river, just for Suya folks don't be alarmed he mentions all the things he don't like about natives so I thought I'd mention it to him cuz he keeps bringing it up forever and a day and so I'll do the same lol. Some like a couple others like Jagermister to rub it in a bit about cutting natives off everything so here's a list for you to tell your MLA now that Kevin Kruegar is gone you can talk to the red headed guy. Scarey Lake
Jel -- every time some one brings this up about native anything that's negative or judgemental this will counter it so others get the idea and quit it or get a pm from someone in authority. One more for suyaforit LOL .. ing.
Now stop it please and turn the channel, you have nothing that will change these things so no use bringing it up.

[Jagermeister]

I forgot the no hunting license required, or tags,
Sorry, and no fishing license to buy.
Fish with nets in any place or river, just for Suya folks don't be alarmed he mentions all the things he don't like about natives so I thought I'd mention it to him cuz he keeps bringing it up forever and a day and so I'll do the same lol. Some like a couple others like Jagermister to rub it in a bit about cutting natives off everything so here's a list for you to tell your MLA now that Kevin Kruegar is gone you can talk to the red headed guy. Scarey Lake
Jel -- every time some one brings this up about native anything that's negative or judgemental this will counter it so others get the idea and quit it or get a pm from someone in authority. One more for suyaforit LOL .. ing.
Now stop it please and turn the channel, you have nothing that will change these things so no use bringing it up.
So Jelvis, you're STATUS! No problem, you are what you are. Ratio'd at 1:4, that is pretty strong FN blood when you consider that to get status all one needs to prove is 1:32 parts.
Assuming that your wife is non-aboriginal, your son is then 1:8, his issue (your grandchild) if not by aboriginal will be 1:16 and the great grandchild following the same protocal will be 1:32. When it gets to 1:32, any issue further arising from a coupling, other than FN person after that, ceases. In other words, there is no status for a 1:64. However, if that 1:32 copulates with a full blood, it starts all over again. You can see how that can become a hugh number of people running around with status cards. On the one hand, a staggering increase in non-taxable persons all the while a greatly decreasing number to bear the burden.
The point is, if all these people are exempt from paying taxes and are reaping the benefits
accorded them at the taxpayers expense, those that are paying are going to start making a big ruckus and it will only get louder. Idle No More is going to be feeble compared to the groundswell that is coming down the pike.
"every time some one brings this up about native anything that's negative or judgemental this will counter it so others get the idea and quit it or get a pm from someone in authority. One more for suyaforit LOL .. ing."
Fact of the matter is fact of the matter and each of us will see it in a different light. I see you collecting an un-earned benefit and I see me, with the help of some others paying for it. If it is deemed to be true and I am seen as judgemental, then I am judgemental because only a whiteman can be judgemental as only a whiteman can be a racist and an indian a traditionalist.
No malice implied or intended.

[KodiakHntr]

So Jelvis, you're STATUS! No problem, you are what you are. Ratio'd at 1:4, that is pretty strong FN blood when you consider that to get status all one needs to prove is 1:32 parts.

Care to back that up with some facts? I'd like to see where you found the 1/32 parts native to be status to be exact. And by that I don't mean you overheard someone bullshitting about it at the grocery store lineup, some actual, verifiable legislation.

Thanks!

[Jelvis]

second generation up to. Means 25% .. Your gramma or grandad was aboriginal 100% then down if with a non native
if gramma had a non status partner and had a child it would be 50% Indian 50% other
then the child 50% status has a child with non status = 25% then it stops
I can hunt every day of the year if I wanted with a Status card Suyah
I could hunt anything I want too
No bag limit
buck bull doe or cow.
I told you remember I would bring it up as long as you keep digging dirt on Status lol
Jel .LOL for sooyah .. haha

[Jelvis]

I'm seriously thinking you are bullying and it's getting like harassment with you suyah and jager, please abstain from keeping on and on, I think you could be borderline obsessed with bugging natives with your posts.
You can't change anything so why can't you just turn the page on it, it ain't going to change and you and others know that.
Please stop we have been having some problems near the lil fort with someone so I don't know who it is?
Jel .. it's not even funny anymore ok .. Can it. Thank you veddy mooch

[Jagermeister]

Care to back that up with some facts? I'd like to see where you found the 1/32 parts native to be status to be exact. And by that I don't mean you overheard someone bullshitting about it at the grocery store lineup, some actual, verifiable legislation.

Thanks!I did not overhear a converstation but I did have a conversation with a retired RCMP officer on the subject. It was applicable to him so I think he would have credibility since it was a personal concern and I took his word at it. The gentleman was trying to establish his status and he explained the ratio to me. He is a 1:32 and he explained that his son does not qualify because he borne of a white (non-status) mother.
Perusal of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada websites is not forthcoming with such information. Seems to be a closely guarded secret. So for now, that will have to placate you.

[The Dude]

Wait a minute....you only have 25% native blood, but that qualifies you for 100% of the benefits?
Man. I wish I could show up for 3 hours work a day and get 12 hours pay....that would be nice.

[Jagermeister]

I'm seriously thinking you are bullying and it's getting like harassment with you suyah and jager, please abstain from keeping on and on, I think you could be borderline obsessed with bugging natives with your posts.
You can't change anything so why can't you just turn the page on it, it ain't going to change and you and others know that.
Please stop we have been having some problems near the lil fort with someone so I don't know who it is?
Jel .. it's not even funny anymore ok .. Can it. Thank you veddy moochNo one is compelling you to read the thread. Where I have singled you out, please, I am sorry and please accept my apology. I will refrain from any further personal thrusts.

[Jelvis]

Hey dooood do you have any native in you? Would you like some. haha
Jager why would you want to know that anyway have you got some native in you? and no you can't. haha
.. Don't worry it ain't going to change nuttin honey .. second generation is 25 % the retired cop don't know bo.
so, and until the Canadian Constitution changes you or I ain't changing anything but our shorts ..
The Army seargent had good news for the troops who hadn't a new change of underwear or clean ones for a month in the field. The Seargent barked , "I got good news soldiers, we got a change of underwear, the soldiers stood and clapped, then the sarg says, You change your shorts with him and you with him ... lol and on and on ....

[Bugle M In]

Yup.....then along came a little thing called Vietnam.
Think I recalled that the troops started to shooting the Saergents???:shock:

Looks like this thread has gone way sideways.
Obvious to us others on this forum....All of the problems that pertain to this thread and future issues to contend with for the future.

[KodiakHntr]

I did not overhear a converstation but I did have a conversation with a retired RCMP officer on the subject. It was applicable to him so I think he would have credibility since it was a personal concern and I took his word at it. The gentleman was trying to establish his status and he explained the ratio to me. He is a 1:32 and he explained that his son does not qualify because he borne of a white (non-status) mother.
Perusal of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada websites is not forthcoming with such information. Seems to be a closely guarded secret. So for now, that will have to placate you.

Yeah, I can guarrantee that what you are spouting about 1/32 native receiving status is absolute bullshit (again).

A lot of guys will talk just to hear their own voice, about stuff they know nothing about.

Having several relatives with status, and several on the same side without, and some of them who actually work for Indian Affairs I can say that you have moved into the "nothing about" range. Again.

[fuzzybiscuit]

I like turtles!

[HarryToolips]

Back to the moose population prob, by what everyone's saying the poaching/cow harvest is a big prob up there, but it would be much harder for people to do so if there was way more trees/cover for them. They obviously got way too far ahead of themselves with the logging/beetle kill harvest without a good re-planting program in place. Here in the Okanagan and most of the Kooteney/Thompson areas where I hunt, we would have the same prob if the poaching was as high, as the re-planting program almost everywhere I've seen looks to be lacking big-time. The other prob I see is tree species re-planting biodiversity, as re-planting blocks are always one species (2 rarely). If in the future another form of infestation hits this certain species we'll all be back to the same stupid problem again. Again in my opinion, there needs to be more "protected areas" from logging in the province that haven't been impacted by the beetle kill, there's just too much logging and clear-cuts. I sent the MOE an e-mail regarding all of this, they need pressure from everybody before they start listening, so I suggest any of you who haven't been active in voicing your own concerns start doing so!

[SUAFOYT]

Back to the moose population prob, by what everyone's saying the poaching/cow harvest is a big prob up there, but it would be much harder for people to do so if there was way more trees/cover for them. They obviously got way too far ahead of themselves with the logging/beetle kill harvest without a good re-planting program in place. Here in the Okanagan and most of the Kooteney/Thompson areas where I hunt, we would have the same prob if the poaching was as high, as the re-planting program almost everywhere I've seen looks to be lacking big-time. The other prob I see is tree species re-planting biodiversity, as re-planting blocks are always one species (2 rarely). If in the future another form of infestation hits this certain species we'll all be back to the same stupid problem again. Again in my opinion, there needs to be more "protected areas" from logging in the province that haven't been impacted by the beetle kill, there's just too much logging and clear-cuts. I sent the MOE an e-mail regarding all of this, they need pressure from everybody before they start listening, so I suggest any of you who haven't been active in voicing your own concerns start doing so!

A lot of the areas around here Canfor was excused from having to replant because of the volume. Another weak excuse for not doing what they are supposed to do while having tenure on the TFL.

[ruger#1]

Back to the moose population prob, by what everyone's saying the poaching/cow harvest is a big prob up there, but it would be much harder for people to do so if there was way more trees/cover for them. They obviously got way too far ahead of themselves with the logging/beetle kill harvest without a good re-planting program in place. Here in the Okanagan and most of the Kooteney/Thompson areas where I hunt, we would have the same prob if the poaching was as high, as the re-planting program almost everywhere I've seen looks to be lacking big-time. The other prob I see is tree species re-planting biodiversity, as re-planting blocks are always one species (2 rarely). If in the future another form of infestation hits this certain species we'll all be back to the same stupid problem again. Again in my opinion, there needs to be more "protected areas" from logging in the province that haven't been impacted by the beetle kill, there's just too much logging and clear-cuts. I sent the MOE an e-mail regarding all of this, they need pressure from everybody before they start listening, so I suggest any of you who haven't been active in voicing your own concerns start doing so!It isn't only those things that you have mentioned, It is ATV's also. Poeple are getting into areas the were never easily assesible before.

[KodiakHntr]

A lot of the areas around here Canfor was excused from having to replant because of the volume. Another weak excuse for not doing what they are supposed to do while having tenure on the TFL.

Another one spouting absolute bullshit. Nobody has been excused from reforestation obligations. Period.

The Province (meaning the MoFNRL) can't allow that sort of impact to the provincial AAC. Thats not how forestry in this province works.

[Jagermeister]

Yeah, I can guarrantee that what you are spouting about 1/32 native receiving status is absolute bullshit (again).

A lot of guys will talk just to hear their own voice, about stuff they know nothing about.

Having several relatives with status, and several on the same side without, and some of them who actually work for Indian Affairs I can say that you have moved into the "nothing about" range. Again.
About the only thing you can guarantee is your own shit that you spew.

How about this profound statement of nothing, "Having several relatives with status, and several on the same side without, and some of them who actually work for Indian Affairs I can say that you have moved into the "nothing about" range. Again" Talk about hollow

Now you call bullshit on me about the 1:32 status yet you fail to refute it with the facts that you so cherish. Well, produce those facts doodah.

You are guilty of your own drivel, case in point. "A lot of guys will talk just to hear their own voice, about stuff they know nothing about."

Now suck back and reload.

[HarryToolips]

Your right ruger it seems that many people with ATV's are making a mess as well. As soon as an area is re-planted, they need to de-activate the roads!

[SUAFOYT]

Another one spouting absolute bullshit. Nobody has been excused from reforestation obligations. Period.

The Province (meaning the MoFNRL) can't allow that sort of impact to the provincial AAC. Thats not how forestry in this province works.

Well any time you'd like to come into TFL 18 you can have a look. Maybe excused is incorrect but they're sure as hell behind. Areas that were harvested while the beetle kill wood was still viable were not replanted. As yet. When the replanting was going on on a normal basis the time lag was 2 years at most. They are logging in new areas like crazy now. Just giving a report of what we see since the bush crews were gotten rid of by Canfor.

[KodiakHntr]

About the only thing you can guarantee is your own shit that you spew.

How about this profound statement of nothing, "Having several relatives with status, and several on the same side without, and some of them who actually work for Indian Affairs I can say that you have moved into the "nothing about" range. Again" Talk about hollow

Now you call bullshit on me about the 1:32 status yet you fail to refute it with the facts that you so cherish. Well, produce those facts doodah.

You are guilty of your own drivel, case in point. "A lot of guys will talk just to hear their own voice, about stuff they know nothing about."

Now suck back and reload.

YOU are the one spouting "facts"...... YOU back it up. I KNOW what it takes to get Status, you are spouting some heresay as "fact". Prove it.

Lets see you back up some of your bullshit with verifiable information. I'll even give you all day to furiously google up some information. Hell, even go down to the local Band office and ask.

We'll be waiting for you to report back.

[SUAFOYT]

Your right ruger it seems that many people with ATV's are making a mess as well. As soon as an area is re-planted, they need to de-activate the roads!

The road deactivation here seems to be hit and miss at best. Some of the older areas that had meadows and such were ripped up, but that seems to have stopped. The ATVs that we see here during hunting season don't seem to have much more effect than the road building.

[KodiakHntr]

Well any time you'd like to come into TFL 18 you can have a look. Maybe excused is incorrect but they're sure as hell behind. Areas that were harvested while the beetle kill wood was still viable were not replanted. As yet. When the replanting was going on on a normal basis the time lag was 2 years at most. They are logging in new areas like crazy now. Just giving a report of what we see since the bush crews were gotten rid of by Canfor.

So, you are saying that you are wrong then? That you used the wrong choice of words and that maybe you don't actually know what you are saying?

I can assure you that ALL blocks that are logged by any licensee are reforested in a timely manner. There's a bunch of reasons that you won't listen to, but a couple of them include it costing MORE money the longer you leave them before you plant and costing MORE longterm money before they are off your books. And its A LEGAL REQUIREMENT. No if's and's or but's.

Stick to what you know, and people can't call you out on it.

[SUAFOYT]

So, you are saying that you are wrong then? That you used the wrong choice of words and that maybe you don't actually know what you are saying?

I can assure you that ALL blocks that are logged by any licensee are reforested in a timely manner. There's a bunch of reasons that you won't listen to, but a couple of them include it costing MORE money the longer you leave them before you plant and costing MORE longterm money before they are off your books. And its A LEGAL REQUIREMENT. No if's and's or but's.

Stick to what you know, and people can't call you out on it.

Sure, I'll admit I used the wrong choice of words. Everyone does it from time to time- except you apparently. Sounds like you need another course for your resume. Anger management. Chillax dude- take a valium.

[edgar11]

About the only thing you can guarantee is your own shit that you spew.

How about this profound statement of nothing, "Having several relatives with status, and several on the same side without, and some of them who actually work for Indian Affairs I can say that you have moved into the "nothing about" range. Again" Talk about hollow

Now you call bullshit on me about the 1:32 status yet you fail to refute it with the facts that you so cherish. Well, produce those facts doodah.

You are guilty of your own drivel, case in point. "A lot of guys will talk just to hear their own voice, about stuff they know nothing about."

Now suck back and reload.
You just didn't get it Jager, he is saying he has relatives who follow these rules(status requirement) and those who enforce it(INAC employees) and so he has 1st hand knowledge of what you heard from your cop buddy. So being FN, I can can tell your cop buddy is full of it and Kodiak is telling you the truth.

[Jagermeister]

YOU are the one spouting "facts"...... YOU back it up. I KNOW what it takes to get Status, you are spouting some heresay as "fact". Prove it.

Lets see you back up some of your bullshit with verifiable information. I'll even give you all day to furiously google up some information. Hell, even go down to the local Band office and ask.

We'll be waiting for you to report back.No no! You're the one calling bullshit, the onus is on you to prove me wrong.
Like always, you espouse nothing but innuendo. So cut the crap and get with the program.

[ruger#1]

The road deactivation here seems to be hit and miss at best. Some of the older areas that had meadows and such were ripped up, but that seems to have stopped. The ATVs that we see here during hunting season don't seem to have much more effect than the road building. If they would stay on the roads that would be fine. Crossing rivers and cutting ATV trails in hill sides and threw swamps is a mess. I used to hunt in the clinton area alot. We would walk down to the bluffs to hunt deer. Now there are atv trails going down to the bluffs. I do not hunt there any more. I do own an atv and keep it on the roads.

[SUAFOYT]

I've never hunted Clinton, but would guess it's certainly more arid than here. Once those scars are on the landscape, they stay for quite some time. The meadows and swamps are definitely a no no, and it's a major issue if the CO catches you. Most of the slopes here are not what you would call navigable. Anyone who tries is in for a shock.

[ruger#1]

Never been to Clearwater. Hunt in the Oliver area, And the scars are very bad, It isn't just hunters. It's any one who drives. It is a shame. That is one reason they want to turn the area into a National Park.

[Jelvis]

Thank you so much and I accept Jaegers apology and if I offended anyone, please forgive the Jelman.
You all are wonderful, we are hunters and that is what we are .. thanks to HBC and all staff for a great place to share ..
Jelvis (the pelvis) Happy New Year in 2013

[ruger#1]

Thank you so much and I accept Jaegers apology and if I offended anyone, please forgive the Jelman.
You all are wonderful, we are hunters and that is what we are .. thanks to HBC and all staff for a great place to share ..
Jelvis (the pelvis) Happy New Year in 2013 Oh Jel lighten up. I offend every one.

[KodiakHntr]

No no! You're the one calling bullshit, the onus is on you to prove me wrong.
Like always, you espouse nothing but innuendo. So cut the crap and get with the program.


HAHAHAHAHA! You've been called out too many times already and proven to be making shit up, and this time you know you are flat out lying. Don't try and put this on me Dennis, you are the one trying to put your drivel out as fact, back it up. Should be easy for you, no? After all, you are stating your shit is "fact", back it up.

Unless of course, you can't?

Even outline the process for us, that it takes to get FN Status. Unless you don't know? Care to simply pull some more "facts" out of thin air?

[Jagermeister]

HAHAHAHAHA! You've been called out too many times already and proven to be making shit up, and this time you know you are flat out lying. Don't try and put this on me Dennis, you are the one trying to put your drivel out as fact, back it up. Should be easy for you, no? After all, you are stating your shit is "fact", back it up.

Unless of course, you can't?

Even outline the process for us, that it takes to get FN Status. Unless you don't know? Care to simply pull some more "facts" out of thin air?
No, I waiting for you to set the record straight as to what constitutes qualification for status. And I am thinking that you are not able to do that, afraid to go out on the limb for fear someone will blow your facts into oblivion.
Enlighten us, tell us the qualifying conditions needed. You must have the answer!

[KodiakHntr]

So Jelvis, you're STATUS! No problem, you are what you are. Ratio'd at 1:4, that is pretty strong FN blood when you consider that to get status all one needs to prove is 1:32 parts.
Assuming that your wife is non-aboriginal, your son is then 1:8, his issue (your grandchild) if not by aboriginal will be 1:16 and the great grandchild following the same protocal will be 1:32. When it gets to 1:32, any issue further arising from a coupling, other than FN person after that, ceases. In other words, there is no status for a 1:64. However, if that 1:32 copulates with a full blood, it starts all over again. You can see how that can become a hugh number of people running around with status cards.

You stated this. I am FLAT OUT calling you a liar. You have zero knowledge of what you are talking about. Period. You have NO credibility, at all. You are making up lies to back up your agenda, which is to create malice on this board. Prove me wrong.

Prove to us that you aren't a liar, making up inflamatory statements to suit yourself (again). Prove that you have he slightest inkling of knowledge about anything relating to this topic.

I don't think you can, because you've been caught in a lie (again) and some of us know it, and others here suspect but don't want to get close to you because of the stink of bullshit you give off.

No malice implied or intended.
BULLSHIT. That is exactly what you are attempting to do.


No, I waiting for you to set the record straight as to what constitutes qualification for status. And I am thinking that you are not able to do that, afraid to go out on the limb for fear someone will blow your facts into oblivion.
Enlighten us, tell us the qualifying conditions needed. You must have the answer!

i do have the answer Dennis, and you know it as well. Thats why you keep trying to deflect it away from yourself. Because you know you've been caught in a lie (again).

Lets throw a little tidbit out there, for those of you following along.... If it was a s simple as only having 1/32 native blood, wouldn't it be possible that at least 75% of the members here could qualify for status? Hell, likely 75% of the province, don't you think?

[Jelvis]

If your Gramma or Grand dad was Indian and had Status and lost it for some reason, or still had it.
Go to the nearest Indian Friendship center and get the forms needed to send to Ottawa.
Fill them out accordingly and send them in and hurry up and wait.
You will need proof of the gramma or grandads band, and go from there.
Jel

[Jagermeister]

Just in case yoall thought I crawled under a rock, I did not.

So Jelvis, you're STATUS! No problem, you are what you are. Ratio'd at 1:4, that is pretty strong FN blood when you consider that to get status all one needs to prove is 1:32 parts.
Assuming that your wife is non-aboriginal, your son is then 1:8, his issue (your grandchild) if not by aboriginal will be 1:16 and the great grandchild following the same protocal will be 1:32. When it gets to 1:32, any issue further arising from a coupling, other than FN person after that, ceases. In other words, there is no status for a 1:64. However, if that 1:32 copulates with a full blood, it starts all over again. You can see how that can become a hugh number of people running around with status cards.
You stated this. I am FLAT OUT calling you a liar. You have zero knowledge of what you are talking about. Period. You have NO credibility, at all. You are making up lies to back up your agenda, which is to create malice on this board. Prove me wrong.

Prove to us that you aren't a liar, making up inflamatory statements to suit yourself (again). Prove that you have he slightest inkling of knowledge about anything relating to this topic.

I don't think you can, because you've been caught in a lie (again) and some of us know it, and others here suspect but don't want to get close to you because of the stink of bullshit you give off.
No malice implied or intended.
BULLSHIT. That is exactly what you are attempting to do.
Originally Posted by Jagermeister (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1262751#post1262751)
No, I waiting for you to set the record straight as to what constitutes qualification for status. And I am thinking that you are not able to do that, afraid to go out on the limb for fear someone will blow your facts into oblivion.
Enlighten us, tell us the qualifying conditions needed. You must have the answer!
i do have the answer Dennis, and you know it as well. Thats why you keep trying to deflect it away from yourself. Because you know you've been caught in a lie (again).

Lets throw a little tidbit out there, for those of you following along.... If it was a s simple as only having 1/32 native blood, wouldn't it be possible that at least 75% of the members here could qualify for status? Hell, likely 75% of the province, don't you think?

It seems that I have made a lie. I am not certain what that lie is, so to verify, I sent to the following PM to Kodiakhntr on Dec. 30, 2012 at 3:17 P.M.
You stated."I am FLAT OUT calling you a liar."
Could you copy and paste where you think I made a lie?
I forgot your first name, seems to me I had a discourse with you about sheep hunting some time back, but deleted those pms. Since you know my first name, it would only be fitting if I could extend the courtesy of addressing you by your proper name.
Dennis
Kodiakhntr made a post to another thread at 8:44 PM on Dec. 30, 2012 so there is no way that he would not have been aware of the PM I sent. We all know that if we are signed in, the moment a PM is sent, that little red notification flag pops into our face. Using his prerogative, Kodiakhntr chose to dismiss the PM and not reveal his perceived lie that I made. He likes to deal in obscurities, this way he can avoid accountability. The only thing that seemed to get his shit in a knot was the reference to the 1:32. We’ll get back to that later. I want to lay a little ground work down “for those of you following along....”

Status granting rules. Status is a very complex issue. There are so many variables that it somewhat mind boggling. Status is governed by the Indian Act and the Act has been amended many times over the course of history. A significant amendment made was Enfranchisement and it does have implication in lost and regained status.

In 1985, there was another amendment made to the Indian Act. This amendment allowed for the bands to set their own rules for granting status. So each band now can set its own rules granting status.

It seems that the contentious lie delves around the 1:32 ratio I alluded to. (The person that I had that conversation with is a very real and alive person. I’m not at liberty to discuss it beyond this.)

Actually, status can be granted well beyond that 1:32 blood quantum. In fact, a band could grant status to an adoptee or even a person with no blood tie whatsoever to First Nations if the band chose to do so.
(There are 630 Indian bands or communities in Canada. 198 of those are in British Columbia. You can see that the same rules applying from band to band are not very likely.)

Kodiakhntr posted, “i do have the answer Dennis, and you know it as well.”
If he had the answer, then he would have seen that no lie had been committed and offered an apology given based on the facts outlined above.

Kodiakhntr is a purveyor of argumentum ad hominem(if you can't attack the argument; attack the person) He is nothing short of a slanderous malignant miscreant.

I demand a formal apology and retraction from Kodiakhntr.

[Jelvis]

Not supposed to share Private Message in public forum, we don't want to see them, it's betwixed you dudes alone with your personalities and passions written in Private Messages, the word Private being the main word to follow.
Jel .. Work it out in private and please lol Keep it there.

[RiverOtter]

Kodiakhntr is a purveyor of argumentum ad hominem(if you can't attack the argument; attack the person) He is nothing short of a slanderous malignant miscreant.

I demand a formal apology and retraction from Kodiakhntr.

Make sure to hold your breath for good luck.....................

[Rob Chipman]

Wow.

Jelvis - you really pay $500/month in rent? I pay that much a month in property tax. And I pay for my own teeth (you should see my smile! If you ignore the broken teeth I'm really f'ing handsome!)

Here's what I've learned, minus the bullshit:



-Guided hunters are harvesting fewer moose. ("147 from 200")
-Resident hunters are shooting more ("1,201 in 2010 from 977 in 2000")
-Most, if not all those moose are bulls.
-Populations are down 40%-60%, but the study shows that cow/calf populations are down scary amounts ("declined so significantly the moose population will take years to recover.")
-FN do take cows, (Chief Alphonse concedes this) but nobody knows how many.
-The government is studying the problem (Boy, was I relieved to hear that! :-) )


Here are a couple things I already knew (or thought I knew - I could be wrong):

Moose really weren't in most of the Chilcotin 100 years ago. Same with a lot of the Cariboo (which is probably why its called the Cariboo, and not the Moose). In 1913 if a FN guy shot a moose in, for example, Alexis Creek, or the Nazko/Blackwater area, they often didn't know what they'd shot. I've read that in many histories of the area.

Trains/highways kill way more moose than hunters.

Moose populations are very low in the Chilcotin. I've noticed fewer moose, more wolf tracks, and signs from the bands saying that populations are low and that cows should not be shot (probably Chief Alphonse's band, southwest Chilcotin, Henry's Crossing, Nemiah way).

Here's what I know for a fact:

If you don't track what FNs shoot you can't say they shoot too many or that they shoot too few to matter. This number has to be tracked.

The government won't fix the problem. What, in our history together, makes any of us think any differently? Seriously. The cod? The salmon? The debt? Red tape? Not going to happen.

Arguing among the people who care is the same as divide and conquer, except there are no brains involved in the dividing and conquering. There's just dummies pointing fingers at each other. Chief Alphonse wants moose around. So do I. Seems to me he's an ally of mine in that regard, not an enemy.

Pine beetle kill is great for fires. I love taking the chainsaw and stocking up on dry wood. Never a problem staying warm. But it can't be good for moose, especially the logging of it. We've all seen the clearcuts. That doesn't happen without some spin-off effects, and we all know, from hard experience, that the unintended consequences are the ones that screw you. I don't know what the massive beetle kill/logging is doing, but I'm sure its doing something. I did see one Bull LEH whacked west of Clinton in an absolutely huge clearcut. Might be the exception, but I garauntee that it was a nice, long, clear sightline from the road to the gut pile.

When the breeding population drops...um...it doesn't breed as well as it did before it dropped (when I say "dropped" I mean "died"). Moose reproduce way more slowly than mice.

Here's what has to happen for a good outcome for moose, hunters and FNs.

-FN harvests must be tracked.
-FNs have to be onside with that.
-Chief Alphonse seems to be concerned, and should get some support from everyone else concerned.
-If Indians shoot cows because they can't find bulls (Chief Alphonse's words, not mine) without spending too much money on gas, then they shouldn't hunt cows, period. Sorry about that.
-If wolves are over-harvesting (which sounds better than "sinking their fangs into live meat and ripping it out") then we need to find out why. Wolves can't over-harvest anything long term, because they'll die, but if logging and roads and sleds make it easier for them to hunt? Man caused that, and man has to step in.
-if logging and re-forestation are not creating habitat (read some posts here about lack of forage in clear cuts, which I believe I have witnessed) then we need to re-plant differently.

It's not that tough. We need good counts. How many traffic deaths (trains/trucks/cars)? How many resident hunter kills? How many guided kills? How many FN kills? How many wolf kills?

That's what will tell us what needs to be done.

The government puts out some good info, but it seems hard to find. I've been pleasantly surprised when a member here puts up a government PDF on one thing or another. If you find that stuff, post it more.

We also need more good habitat. Who doesn't need more good habitat when they're dying off? Ask Jelvis: want to grow some good weed you need to give it a good environment. replant with more diversity and let forage grow while the trees are starting out. More expensive? Yes. Good stuff costs money.

Don't restrict access. I drive far back into the bush so I can walk back farther. Don't gate the roads. This is my country, and (PC incorrect warning) I was here before a lot of FN guys were and I'm not going anywhere.

We've heard it before, and I know its tough, and nobody wants to organize it, but if you leave it to the government to fix it a) the squeaky wheels will get the grease and b) they won't fix it right. Hunters could benefit from becoming the squeaky wheel.

And moose would benefit as well.

My 2 cents. I could be completely wrong. It's happened before.

[dingdongdenny]

i truly believe that most of us non fn hunters are not racist,but it is hard for us to see 2 different laws 1 for fn 1 for non fn...this is the giant stumbling block...i dont know what the answer is but this is where the problems arise.....what do the fn want from the government so that we are all on the same page

actually there is only one law,the fn don't have a law.

[Jelvis]

LEH is your friend

[edgar11]

actually there is only one law,the fn don't have a law.

How so DingDong? Explain yourself.

[gcreek]

It is beyond belief how gullible some of you are.

What better way for bios responsible for the reduction in game numbers to take the heat from themselves by pitting users of the resource against each other?

Yes, logging is responsible in that the network of roads are not restricted to industrial use only. The roads have given access to ALL HUNTERS! In this area the moose population was extremely healthy until logging commenced and the "slaughter" by resident hunters from other areas began. In 4 short years it became neccessary for an LEH to be introduced. Add in the fact that Native hunters use the roads year round to harvest basically the same numbers of game they have always taken. (likely a lot fewer now because of demographics and game populations) Guide Outfitters have been steadily decreased in game they are allowed to take from what was a stable quota for years previous to the mid 80's

Now add in a little item called "management" that is a complete pharce in it's own title. Predator numbers have sky-rocketed in the last 20 years only because those in charge were too worried about world opinion of Beautiful BC or because of a hidden adgenda to do away with hunting in this province altogether. Endangered wolves and grizzlies my ass!

The ineptness of the senior biologists should be repaid with them kicking a rock down the road and finding a job where they might actually learn what is going on in the bush.

Then you have biased nimrods such as Jagermeister that believe the only way to correct the problem of fewer moose is to OPEN SEASON THEM. I believe that is exactly what the Natives are doing and it ain't working out to great is it?

[wsm]

pointing blame is neither here nor there. we all know pretty much what happened. there are a ton of reasons for the decline , some more significant than others . who is wiling to do what to fix it ? that is the question . where do we start ?

[gcreek]

pointing blame is neither here nor there. we all know pretty much what happened. there are a ton of reasons for the decline , some more significant than others . who is wiling to do what to fix it ? that is the question . where do we start ?

A good start would be to open a generous LEH on Grizzlies in all areas of the Chilcotin and to make a concentrated effort to kill some of these frigging wolves off instead of pissing precious dollars away doing more meaningless, repetetive studies.

Those and closing a whole lot of roads off to ANY motorized vehicles with penalties to ANY offenders would make a difference to the bumbling we have now. One way or another, govt. is going to have to make a decision. Another year or two of the staus qou and it will be too late for the rest of our gereration.

FWIW, the MOE is continuing a study on the Itcha cariboo that was started back in the 80's. The Native guy that flies with them from the local band said most of what they saw was wolves, wolf tracks and kill sites this last week.

[Jelvis]

LEH moose is your opportunity and if you can keep the LEH options on the moose family in the regions that are now LEH, then do it, that is your best way to go hunting for a moose in low population numbers or reasons that make the LEH system work.
Blaming the "Man in the Moon" won't help when hunters say the moose are gone, when they go there for a long week-end hunt once a season, coming from the lower mainland or the Islands.
LEH should be allowed in these areas to help control the hunters destination spots. The ones that don't get the LEH, go to other spots for moose.
If you get rid of LEH in a spot then, the GOS is hooped, then you lost out by not clinging to LEH Lottery.
.. Promote LEH in this spot for hunters with valid BC Hunting Number, and then who won an LEH Any Bull Moose
Can have a super bull moose hunt, help to bring the ratio more even with fewer cows to breed so your saying.
May you win a chance to "dance with moose" .. leh is the way of the future, someday it will all be LEH like the states.
Jel .. leh for everyone to apply for as long as you have an LEH next in 2013 in here would be fantastic ..