Region 5 Elk Transplant Underway

[bearvalley]

British Columbias far thinking Wildlife Branch has initiated the relocation process for a group of "Free Lunch" progammed Elk that have been protected and developed in the Quesnel area.
New Destination..........About 25 to 30 miles south of Williams Lake.....right in the middle of some of the Cariboo's best ranchland.

WAY TO GO GUYS.......WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT at its BEST.
DOE'S ANYONE GET PAID TO THINK?

Hey Jag, it's your turn to vent...I think we could be on the same team on this one.

[ianwuzhere]

hopefully they do well. more elk hunting opportunities is great!

[GoatGuy]

Moose inventory work which was done incorrectly and mule deer inventory which has no foundation or scientific method attached should be enough for discussion in Region 5.

Not to mention failing bighorn sheep populations with no recovery plan.

There's reality and then there's Region 5.

[The Dude]

Time for a shift change, GG?

[boxhitch]

Maybe part of the caribou recovery plan ? That seems to be the only plan getting attention .
Move some protein to move some predators ? wink
WAG here

[pronghorn]

It will be intreasting to see if they last out there

[bearvalley]

It will be intreasting to see if they last out there


With the proposed drop off point being roughly centered between the Williams Lake(Sugarcane), Alkali Lake, Dog Creek, Canoe Creek and
Canim Lake reserves , I would guess the chances of survival are pretty slim.

[leadpillproductions]

wasn't there a big herd out west many yrs ago.
I know they have been seen on the 700 rd out macleese area and skulla valley to

[bearvalley]

hopefully they do well. more elk hunting opportunities is great!


Wishfull thinking. The way I see it is that if part of the elk population in the northern part off Region 5 are donated into this spur of the moment
pretty much unplanned transplant , any chance of a season on elk in Region 5 just got pushed back at least another 10 to 15 years. Don't get me wrong.
I fully support planned wildlife management but this is an unplanned attempt to get elk populations back into the central and south Cariboo. If the elk are
moved and wasted it's a loss. Wildlife loss and financial loss. If they are moved and by chance happen to survive....A NEW GUY JUST GOT STUCK WITH
ANOTHER GUYS PROBLEM. In the meantime a bunch of MOE guys are having a bunch off fun playing wildlife cowboys.

[Spy]

Have they done anything about the wolves in the area ! Common sense says to me get the preditors numbers under controle before you transplant the elk ! Otherwise its just a huge waste of time, $$$$ & resources !

[gcreek]

Have they done anything about the wolves in the area ! Common sense says to me get the preditors numbers under controle before you transplant the elk ! Otherwise its just a huge waste of time, $$$$ & resources !

They haven't got any money to deal with wolves.

[Timbow]

Any idea on the number of elk being transplanted?

[gcreek]

Hey bearvalley, think we could get enough enthusiasum to roadblock the bridge?

[bearvalley]

wasn't there a big herd out west many yrs ago.
I know they have been seen on the 700 rd out macleese area and skulla valley to

The big herds of elk dissapeared from the Cariboo and Chilcotin in the 1800's. Times have changed . Can this area sustain big herds ever again.
I doubt it. At least not without causing a lot of grief. As to the Skelton Valley herd, it was a small, genetically dormant group of survivors of the
original elk herds. This herd stayed stagnant for years with no increase. This was probably due to the genetic pool being to close. Transplants of unrelated elk were introduced into this herd allowing it to increase dramatically. MOE staff has admitted to this. Elk from this base are what started
the herd in the Gravelle Ferry area.

[bearvalley]

Timbow,the transplant # being thrown out is up to 60.
Dave,our blockade won't last very long. We have to light of hide.

[LYKTOHUNT]

A few years back myself and others participated in Elk counts in that area with the understanding that if the numbers supported hunting the ministry would open a LEH hunt. what I think has happened is they never had any thought about opening an LEH hunt and they took advantage of some free labour and some of my fuel to estimate population numbers . why not allow a limited hunt there as I understand the local ranchers have had just about enough of them.
I guess the other side of the coin is the ranchers may be complaining but would not allow hunters on their property to hunt some of the problem critters anyways.

[bearvalley]

A few years back myself and others participated in Elk counts in that area with the understanding that if the numbers supported hunting the ministry would open a LEH hunt. what I think has happened is they never had any thought about opening an LEH hunt and they took advantage of some free labour and some of my fuel to estimate population numbers . why not allow a limited hunt there as I understand the local ranchers have had just about enough of them.
I guess the other side of the coin is the ranchers may be complaining but would not allow hunters on their property to hunt some of the problem critters anyways.



Don't jump to conclusions about ranchers not allowing hunting access.But also keep in mind the cows and calves cause damage as well. Not just the 6 point and bigger bulls.

[Sofa King]

there's seems to be such a difference between hunting and fishing.
they'll transplant herds of animals to new areas without any hesitation.
sheep into okanagan park, sheep onto mt. paul, etc..
and for the most part, nobody has an issue with it.

but they refuse to stock anything but rainbow in most our lakes.
bc seems to think that every puddle out there needs to be filled with rainbow trout.
then they do nothing but complain about perch.
i understand how invasive they are, but why do they then put limits on them and actually enforce it?
and isn't putting rainbow into waters where they never existed before, also introducing non-native species to that water?

the views are so different between these two.
they think a different fish species will be so devastating to an area.
but don't seem to think a herd of sheep or elk will be competing with food and range with the already existing animals in that area.

[hawk-i]

It's always nice to see more elk, hopefully there will be a open hunt in the future, but as others have said Predator (both the four legged and two legged subsistence kind) control would go a long ways into making the transplant a success.

[LYKTOHUNT]

Don't jump to conclusions about ranchers not allowing hunting access.But also keep in mind the cows and calves cause damage as well. Not just the 6 point and bigger bulls.
I understand what you are saying and yes it is jumping to conclusions that they MAY not allow hunters on their property , but I did use the word may as I know in some area,s this is what happens likely because some folks ruin it for others or maybe if they complain enough then they are elligable for some sort of compensation without having to let hunters on their property. I would assume you to be a land owner at Bear Valley rd area and would know if I am correct on this statement. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I am sure that most would like to take 6 points but I would not have a problem with taking a cow and am sure many others would not have a problem with that as well. So I guess my rambling on is about why not a LEH hunt that may even take a small bit of pressure off moose and deer and generate a little money buying elk tags and such as opposed to spending lots of money transplanting them.

[skibum]

there's seems to be such a difference between hunting and fishing.
they'll transplant herds of animals to new areas without any hesitation.
sheep into okanagan park, sheep onto mt. paul, etc..
and for the most part, nobody has an issue with it.

but they refuse to stock anything but rainbow in most our lakes.
bc seems to think that every puddle out there needs to be filled with rainbow trout.
then they do nothing but complain about perch.
i understand how invasive they are, but why do they then put limits on them and actually enforce it?
and isn't putting rainbow into waters where they never existed before, also introducing non-native species to that water?

the views are so different between these two.
they think a different fish species will be so devastating to an area.
but don't seem to think a herd of sheep or elk will be competing with food and range with the already existing animals in that area.


Honestly I don't like to criticize over the interweb - but this is one of the most stupid posts I have seen here.

(and there was only one ram, wandered from Chase to wildlife park, transplanted to the mount paul herd (2 ewes that made it across the N. Thompson somehow)

[kitnayakwa77]

It's always nice to see more elk, hopefully there will be a open hunt in the future, but as others have said Predator (both the four legged and two legged subsistence kind) control would go a long ways into making the transplant a success.

What's wrong with leaving them where they are and allowing a hunt in Quesnel? Why do they need to be transplanted? It's my understanding the ministry committed to allowing a hunt in Quesnel once an inventory surveyed 100 animals, they have come close to seeing 100 animals in the inventories they have done, but now they are going back on their word and transplanting them.

[hawk-i]

What's wrong with leaving them where they are and allowing a hunt in Quesnel? Why do they need to be transplanted? It's my understanding the ministry committed to allowing a hunt in Quesnel once an inventory surveyed 100 animals, they have come close to seeing 100 animals in the inventories they have done, but now they are going back on their word and transplanting them.

Good point, I wasn't aware with the situation of where the animals were coming from. You would think they would get the transplants from a herd that is nearing its range capacity like Jasper, Banff, Elk Island Park or from an area that has over grazing and damage on agricultural land.

[ianwuzhere]

Is there any proof to this information or all just here say?? Links etc??

[Caribou_lou]

What's wrong with leaving them where they are and allowing a hunt in Quesnel? Why do they need to be transplanted? It's my understanding the ministry committed to allowing a hunt in Quesnel once an inventory surveyed 100 animals, they have come close to seeing 100 animals in the inventories they have done, but now they are going back on their word and transplanting them.

We are having the same problem in Region 6. (Smithers Area) We have Elk... I've seen some big 6 points last few years. But Ministry seems reluctant to open a season. We have proposed a 6 point only rifle season that was turned down. We even Proposed a 6 point Archery season that was turned away also. Farmers are already having problems with them. They flew and counted a couple years ago and only viewed one 6 point. Which is a load of S**t if you ask me. But they are the professionals.

Ironically when the first Whitetail showed up in the Valley there was a season not only for any buck, but does also. I've seen over 50 elk this season and not one Whitetail.

I think the Ministry needs to be held accountable for some of their actions. They should really make an attempt to communicate with the public more and take our opinions into account.

[bearvalley]

Is there any proof to this information or all just here say?? Links etc??

There is proof. The capture trap is set up. There are no Links etc....MOE's plan was to get this done with as little attention to it as possible.

[kitnayakwa77]

Is there any proof to this information or all just here say?? Links etc??

http://www.quesnelrodandgun.ca/category/newsletters/

[GoatGuy]

Good point, I wasn't aware with the situation of where the animals were coming from. You would think they would get the transplants from a herd that is nearing its range capacity like Jasper, Banff, Elk Island Park or from an area that has over grazing and damage on agricultural land.

They tried it, the elk had to be shot by the cos when thy ended up on the nearest golf course outside of the park. Habituated is habituated.

[bearvalley]

It is poor wildlife management to take a group of problem elk that have spent their whole life feeding in hayfields and stackyards and relocate them into another ranching community whether it be Dog Creek, Gang Rang, Empire Valley or Big Creek. Deal with the issue where it is. Don't pass it off on the next guy. Region 5 needs an elk season in the northern part. The numbers are there to support it just as well as the group of elk around Hixon has for several years. But instead a few biologists and elk experts are expecting a handfull of ranchers in the Quesnel area to subsidize and maintain a herd of elk so they can transplant them wherever they please. By the way, whatever happened to stakeholder consultation on the issue. Seems to me the ranchers on both ends as well as the wildlife groups were pretty much kept out of the loop.

[gcreek]

bearvalley, did my MLA call you today? First she knew of this was yesterday from a cattleman at Chimney Creek. I kindly told her you would know as much of what is happening than anyone.:grin::twisted::grin:

[mark]

Jag(sounds like one of my clients) had a similar thread & I thought that the best place for elk relocation would be the Big Creek Provincial Park area or somewhere close to it like Black Dome mtn. or Gaspard Lake. The area is more remote, has little or no access & only a handful of people reside there.

Used to be the old stomping grounds for elk. :smile:

Now whether its here, (as suggested above), or south of williams lake, wont the elk just move right in to the nearest alfalfa field, and piss off the ranchers?
Leading to their demise one way or another??

And wasnt there a 6x6 bull hanging around 100 mile this year that they caught and relocated somewhere else??? What was that about?

[bearvalley]

As Goat Guy stated earlier " habituated is habituated ". Where did the 100 Mile bull originate? Jasper? Elk Island? Someones game farm when the value of farmed elk crashed. The Region 5 Elk Guru's have admitted to prior transplants moving elk into the Quesnel area in the past. Who knows what they have pulled off. If there's going to be elk throughout Region 5...LET THEM WALK. In the meantime open a season in Quesnel.

[kgriz]

I am a little confused with statements like above "region 5 elk gurus admitted to prior transplants"....and the general thought of secretive transplants being discussed on this thread when I stated the question of farmers telling me around PG that they've seen elk being moved around/introduced and I pretty much got snidely laughed off the subject etc. Hmm

[ianwuzhere]

ya i think we all wonder about the "proof" of people continuing to state these rumours.
still no links to govt sites or any sites of any kind, or videos or even any pix..
im still a skeptic ;)

[bearvalley]

I am a little confused with statements like above "region 5 elk gurus admitted to prior transplants"....and the general thought of secretive transplants being discussed on this thread when I stated the question of farmers telling me around PG that they've seen elk being moved around/introduced and I pretty much got snidely laughed off the subject etc. Hmm

Out of the lips of MOE staff. As to being snidely laughed off the subject , you be the judge of by who and why.

[Foxtail]

Well I know there are quite a few elk on the w. fraser side, just south of Quesnel. The family friends ranch where we stay had a really big 9x9 bull wander through a couple months ago. lots of elk tracks in the neighborhood and lots of po'd ranchers.

[Jagermeister]

While I would favour an elk hunt opportunity in the northern area of Region Five. I can understand the reluctance of MOE to hold off and pursue transplanting the "excess" animals to the other historic parts of Region Five as an alternative.
Let's suppose for a minute that they did open an elk season. The first consideration has to be first nations, followed by the resident hunter and the guided hunters. And we all know that conservation measures are virtually non-existant with that group.
I can just visualize first nations hunters pursuing elk along West Fraser Road and the lower end of Nyland Lake Road in the dead of night exercising their right to pit-lamping light. The Soda Creek bunch patrolling West Fraser Road and the Red Bluff Band doing the same above the Gravelle Ferry bridge. Now wouldn't that be a calamity? The residents of Bear Valley would be up in arms, no doubt about that. (I know, I know! ¼ mile firearm single projectile area restriction. However, that only pertains to those that are governed by the regulation.)
What MOE is trying to avoid is a wholesale slaughter of the elk, which would occur if a hunt was conducted. Even an LEH hunt, which would control the harvest of the resident, would not impact the un-regulated harvest of the other user group.
So, to appease the local ranchers and ease their burden, MOE has made the wise decision to transplant and establish elk into the rest of the region so that the hunting opportunity (whenever it should occur) can be spread out instead of being localized.

[.330 Dakota]

Should open a season on poachers instead

[bearvalley]

Jag, I hope you take the time to read this before I head to your ignore list. Not to many of the ranchers in the middle of this mess are feeling appeased or burdenless. Most are in agreement that passing a problem off to others without finding a solution in the first place will not work. In fact, to the best of my knowledge the only one MOE could suck into thier transplant scheme is a recent South African transplant. No offence to him. He hasn't been here long enough to know how or Wildlife Branch works. Moving 30 or 60 of these elk may take the pressure off for a year or two but they will build back and it will be the same story as to crop damage. Some of the more knowledgeabe members of the BCWF agree that a transplant is not the solution. Maybe they could have relayed this message stronger but that's pretty tough to do when you hear a rumour of a transplant, question the merit of a transplant and end up on someones ignore list.
As to first nations hunting, they will whether there is a season or not. It doesn't matter if that elk is on the West Fraser road, the Nyland Lake road or any road south of Williams Lake, if they want to shoot it they will. Good luck if you think a wildlife infraction charge will stick. Season or no season.As far as the pit-lamping goes, if it's going to happen it probably already has. I don't think any of the pit-lamping morons care if it's a legal deer,an illegal elk or someones horse or cow when they pull the trigger. Maybe this theory should have been tested by tying 3 judges to 3 trees a half a mile from the reserve of thier choice.A night there with thier eyeballs taped open and they might have passed down a different verdict. And yes the residents of Bear Valley would be pissed if any pit-lamping occured as would any other sane person if it was in thier backyard.
I guarantee if MOE pulls this off there will be a lot of elk resting in freezers south of Williams Lake. Another success story to add to the list. Oh well, maybe it will take some of the attention from the Kawdy caribou they threw away this year already....

[Jagermeister]

Jag, I hope you take the time to read this before I head to your ignore list. Not to many of the ranchers in the middle of this mess are feeling appeased or burdenless. Most are in agreement that passing a problem off to others without finding a solution in the first place will not work. In fact, to the best of my knowledge the only one MOE could suck into thier transplant scheme is a recent South African transplant. No offence to him. He hasn't been here long enough to know how or Wildlife Branch works. Moving 30 or 60 of these elk may take the pressure off for a year or two but they will build back and it will be the same story as to crop damage. Some of the more knowledgeabe members of the BCWF agree that a transplant is not the solution. Maybe they could have relayed this message stronger but that's pretty tough to do when you hear a rumour of a transplant, question the merit of a transplant and end up on someones ignore list.
As to first nations hunting, they will whether there is a season or not. It doesn't matter if that elk is on the West Fraser road, the Nyland Lake road or any road south of Williams Lake, if they want to shoot it they will. Good luck if you think a wildlife infraction charge will stick. Season or no season.As far as the pit-lamping goes, if it's going to happen it probably already has. I don't think any of the pit-lamping morons care if it's a legal deer,an illegal elk or someones horse or cow when they pull the trigger. Maybe this theory should have been tested by tying 3 judges to 3 trees a half a mile from the reserve of thier choice.A night there with thier eyeballs taped open and they might have passed down a different verdict. And yes the residents of Bear Valley would be pissed if any pit-lamping occured as would any other sane person if it was in thier backyard.
I guarantee if MOE pulls this off there will be a lot of elk resting in freezers south of Williams Lake. Another success story to add to the list. Oh well, maybe it will take some of the attention from the Kawdy caribou they threw away this year already....Before you put me on your ignore list, answer this. You have given a lot of rehtoric but what do you suggest is a solution?
And the area ranchers? Where are they shipping their beef these days and what are cattle going for at auction? Pretty meagre earnings I suspect. (Of course you are probably into sheep like the neighbours across the river.) About the only decent money the ranchers get is for wildlife crop damage and now you imply that they don't want this either? Just no pleasing the ranchers no matter how you look at it.
Okay, now you can put me on your ignore list.

[bearvalley]

Before you put me on your ignore list, answer this. You have given a lot of rehtoric but what do you suggest is a solution?
And the area ranchers? Where are they shipping their beef these days and what are cattle going for at auction? Pretty meagre earnings I suspect. (Of course you are probably into sheep like the neighbours across the river.) About the only decent money the ranchers get is for wildlife crop damage and now you imply that they don't want this either? Just no pleasing the ranchers no matter how you look at it.
Okay, now you can put me on your ignore list.

Jag, I don't have an ignore list, yet. As for sheep...I don't have one on the place. As to your suggestion that some token wildlife crop damage check might replace some ranchers calf check......put away your gumboots, you've been pestering your flock too long. If you want to civilly discuss this and possibly exchange knowledge pm me a phone #, otherwise stick to a topic you have a vested interest in and understand.

[40incher]

Sounds like another classic MOE booddoggle (can't be bothered to follow their latest acronym....).

They should all be fired. A bunch of preservationists/elitists that view us hunters as nothing. They would rather move elk than create a new hunting opportunity. Fire them all and move on.

We have been denied an elk hunt in Region 6 for years for all the same bullshit excuses, despite problems with crop damage and serious negative competition with our native mule deer population. It's time to realize we have a very, very dysfunctional bunch of wildlife "managers".

If this story is true it is not defensible and should result in some type of serious accountability to the proponents (have I mentioned eradication). Maybe we can "transplant" these pricks to California where this whole anti-use concept is being enabled.

To those hunters in Region 5 .... pick up the sword and let's get on with it.

[Jagermeister]

I am good with the transplant. Elk here, elk there. Sooner or later we will have opening in Region 5 and maybe Region 3 too.
The funny thing is, my son lives to the NE of Quesnel, about an equal distance between the Gravelle Ferry elk and the Naver Creek elk. He has yet to see an elk in his vicinity and I would consider his location to be very suitable elk habitat. So, is there an overabundance of elk in the two adjoining regions? Nah, it's a figment of imagination.
The transplant is just something to placate some of the ranchers in the Gravelle Ferry area. Obviously it's not working on all.
As far as discussing it with anyone from that area, I will speak with Martin.

[bearvalley]

I am good with the transplant. Elk here, elk there. Sooner or later we will have opening in Region 5 and maybe Region 3 too.
The funny thing is, my son lives to the NE of Quesnel, about an equal distance between the Gravelle Ferry elk and the Naver Creek elk. He has yet to see an elk in his vicinity and I would consider his location to be very suitable elk habitat. So, is there an overabundance of elk in the two adjoining regions? Nah, it's a figment of imagination.
The transplant is just something to placate some of the ranchers in the Gravelle Ferry area. Obviously it's not working on all.
As far as discussing it with anyone from that area, I will speak with Martin.

Give Martin a call Jaggy. You might gain some knowledge. I already guessed you might know him from some of your old posts. So for he hasn't been able to figure out who the misinformed Jagermeister is. So speak and clarify. By the way Martin's gone for a week or so but is on track with the issue.
By the way, I'm sorry your son has to go through visully impaired but if he'd like to see a elk I'll show him some.

[Jagermeister]

Give Martin a call Jaggy. You might gain some knowledge. I already guessed you might know him from some of your old posts. So for he hasn't been able to figure out who the misinformed Jagermeister is. So speak and clarify. By the way Martin's gone for a week or so but is on track with the issue.

By the way, I'm sorry your son has to go through visully impaired but if he'd like to see a elk I'll show him some.
Far from it.
Just because you have a little herd of elk that swims across the Quensel River does not mean that the Quesnel region teems with them.
Sure, there is that static herd at the bottom of Milburn Mountain and the little group along the Fraser River below Moose Heights, which incidently could be the Milburn Mountain herd making their rounds. But teeming with elk, NOT.
If Caldwell could tolerate the elk on his ranch for years, what seems to be the problem with those to the east?
The ranchers in the Peace and Kootenays could only wish to have the elk problem that prevails in the Gravelle/Quesnel River area.
You see, the problem with those elk hanging around the Gravelle Ferry area is one created by the ranchers themselves. It was a novelty and the elk presence was not discouraged. No attempt was made to drive them off cultivated land. Next thing you know, the elk add a few to the herd and now they are a problem. Safety and sancturary, why would the elk ever want to disperse?
Anyhow BV, you haven't answered the question, "what do you suggest is a solution?"
Transplanting is out of the question.
Ranchers will not grant permission to hunt on or grant access across their properties to hunt the crown land behind. It behooves me to see a viable means to ease their plight.

[Caribou_lou]

I think your missing the point here Jagger. What I see is a large problem with the ministry misleading the resident Hunters of the Quesnel area and Rod and gun club. Region 5 has problems and that problem exists within the ministry.

As for the farmers that deny hunting but apply for crop damage funds. They should be denied the wildlife crop damage funds if they don't make every attempt to protect it. Jmo.

[kitnayakwa77]

I think your missing the point here Jagger. What I see is a large problem with the ministry misleading the resident Hunters of the Quesnel area and Rod and gun club. Region 5 has problems and that problem exists within the ministry.

As for the farmers that deny hunting but apply for crop damage funds. They should be denied the wildlife crop damage funds if they don't make every attempt to protect it. Jmo.

Agreed.

Saw thirteen elk last week on the west side of the Fraser, just northwest of Quesnel, one 6x6, one 7x7, one spiker and the rest cows.

[Jagermeister]

I think your missing the point here Jagger. What I see is a large problem with the ministry misleading the resident Hunters of the Quesnel area and Rod and gun club. Region 5 has problems and that problem exists within the ministry.

As for the farmers that deny hunting but apply for crop damage funds. They should be denied the wildlife crop damage funds if they don't make every attempt to protect it. Jmo.
I don't think I am missing the point at all. Read this response to the Quesnel Rod and Gun Club in this post on their website. http://www.quesnelrodandgun.ca/wp-content/uploads/elk-ramsay-response.pdf
As you can see the ministry has addressed the concerns of elk inventory with aerial surveys that reflect low inventory. As I previously stated, the transplant is the only viable option because of the low population not supporting a resident hunt and the fact that the indians have first right to harvest. All of this is addressed in my post #38 in this thread.
It basically boils down to: 1./ small concentrated herd doing damage to a few ranches; 2./ not enough animals to warrant an LEH hunt and an indiscrimate first nations harvest. The only feasible altenative is to relocate a few elk to ease the ranchers' whinning. There is simply no other option and this is not an attempt to establish a new herd. The sole purpose is to try to satisfy the rancher's in the Gravelle Ferry area and is a detriment to getting an elk season anytime soon.

Saw thirteen elk last week on the west side of the Fraser, just northwest of Quesnel, one 6x6, one 7x7, one spiker and the rest cows. These are most likely the Caldwell Elk Herd, located between Milburn Mountain the the confleuence of the Cottonwood River with the Fraser River. Be probably better off to call them the Paradise Road Elk. They have been there a long time, since the early 80's at least.

[bearvalley]

Far from it.
Just because you have a little herd of elk that swims across the Quensel River does not mean that the Quesnel region teems with them.
Sure, there is that static herd at the bottom of Milburn Mountain and the little group along the Fraser River below Moose Heights, which incidently could be the Milburn Mountain herd making their rounds. But teeming with elk, NOT.
If Caldwell could tolerate the elk on his ranch for years, what seems to be the problem with those to the east?
The ranchers in the Peace and Kootenays could only wish to have the elk problem that prevails in the Gravelle/Quesnel River area.
You see, the problem with those elk hanging around the Gravelle Ferry area is one created by the ranchers themselves. It was a novelty and the elk presence was not discouraged. No attempt was made to drive them off cultivated land. Next thing you know, the elk add a few to the herd and now they are a problem. Safety and sancturary, why would the elk ever want to disperse?
Anyhow BV, you haven't answered the question, "what do you suggest is a solution?"
Transplanting is out of the question.
Ranchers will not grant permission to hunt on or grant access across their properties to hunt the crown land behind. It behooves me to see a viable means to ease their plight.

Jaggy, the longer you keep babbling the deeper your gumboot is slipping.
Did anyone say the Gravelle Ferry herd was the planned transplant. NOPE, it's your " little group along the Fraser River below moose Heights "
30 to 60 of them thrown out might be a little hard on that herd "Don't you think ". If this transplant carries on thats exactly what will happen. Remember
" habituated is habituated ". Transplanted into the middle of some of the Cariboo's finest ranchland and surround by several FN reserves, thats what will
happen. They will be thrown away.
As to the elk hanging around Gravelle Ferry.....you're the expert....you tell me how to keep them off of cultivated ground.
Remember, if you chase them, thats " wildlife harassment ".
Remember, there is no season on them whatsoever, so you're right, they do live in protected safety and sanctuary.
I have already stated my thoughts on what needs done:
- Manage Wildlife with accountability. Ungulants and predators. Dumping elk in new locations with a total CLOSURE in Region 5 will only escalate the
problem, if the elk happen to survive in their new home.
- Open a Region 5 season in MU's that have a huntable population. MU 5-2 has already passed the number that MOE told us was needed. I think the
BCWF and the Quesnel Rod and Gun are on the same page. If the MOE wants elk in Dog Creek let them walk there. Too many flags have come up with
this transplant plan. The major flag is NO STAKEHOLDER CONSULTATION.
As far as ranchers letting hunters access their property, I do allow hunters. But the KEY word is "HUNTERS". You might even make the cut Jag, if you
asked. What a lot of people don't get is that being granted the privilage to hunt on someones ranch is no different than handing a stranger the key to your house.
So Jag....Sit back, relax and pull out the gumboot.

[Jagermeister]

I guess you forgot to read the response to the QR&G Club from MOE.MOE probably would prefer to leave the elk status quo but are forced to something to appease the ranchers.
I don't see TPK commenting so the QR&G Club must be alright with the transplant.

[Caribou_lou]

I read the response from the Ministry addressing the Quesnel Rod and gun. Clearly stating their fear mongering prediction of the Natives Allocation and the Resident hunters allocation cannot be supported by the current population of elk. Which is a Chicken S*** excuse if you ask me!

Also states that the Native allocation would have to be "determined". Which I find very odd. They are implying that the Natives would ask for a large portion of the huntable Allocation. But then end by stating that the natives are encouraging a transplant and want to become more involved with wildlife management. Do those last two paragraphs not conflict each other?

[bearvalley]

I guess you forgot to read the response to the QR&G Club from MOE.MOE probably would prefer to leave the elk status quo but are forced to something to appease the ranchers.
I don't see TPK commenting so the QR&G Club must be alright with the transplant.

Give Wilf from the BCWF a call. In the meantime your kinda running out of steam if the only answer you can come up with is crawling on MOE's shirt tails.
Relax, cash a pension check and take a holiday:)

[TPK]

I guess you forgot to read the response to the QR&G Club from MOE.MOE probably would prefer to leave the elk status quo but are forced to something to appease the ranchers.
I don't see TPK commenting so the QR&G Club must be alright with the transplant.


No, neither myself nor the members of the Quesnel Rod and Gn Club are in the least bit happy about this. As stated several times, no stakeholder input from anywhere, just the Region 5 MOE going off on a tangent. Below is the letter I sent in this regard .. my stance should be crystal clear after reading this.


July 23, 2012
Dear Mr. Mike Ramsay,
You received a letter from the Quesnel Rod and Gun Club indicating their disappointment and concerns over a proposed Elk transplant. I must say I echo their comments and concerns.
Where was the consultation with local clubs and with who were the discussions had with regards to this plan to transplant problem elk?

Certainly the Quesnel Rod and Gun Club have been mislead with regards the possibility of an Elk hunt. They did assist Pat Dielmen for two years trying to survey the numbers in hopes getting the needed 200 count for a hunt to be entertained. Never once was there any mention of transplanting elk.

Now however, the Ministry is pursuing a transplant to reestablish historic Elk herds in our Region instead of a hunt to remove them. Please provide us with the rationale for the change in stated direction. There was no communication or consultation at all with the regional BCWF, resident hunters, or any affected parties that myself as BCWF Regional President is actually aware of.

I personally find it frustrating as the transplant was not mentioned when I recently talked face to face with you about what would need to be done to start managing Elk for harvest in our Region. I mentioned that a harvest has been requested by several clubs and their many members as well as local farmers and cattlemen looking for any relief from the ever growing problems caused by these Elk.

Clearly there is a need to deal with the current Elk population and the BCWF member clubs in our Region will always favour a hunt vs. transplant when dealing with species that are not at risk in our Province (as is the case with elk).

The issue of the benefits of a hunt vs. the cost of a transplant program needs to be recognized here. Where is this money coming from for the program? We have so many other issues right now with funding problems that to take on a whole new initiative just seems wrong. Especially when an elk harvest opportunity could be used in light of declining moose populations.
Moving forward, I am requesting that I be kept informed of the Regional Wildlife staff plan with regards to elk in our Region. I would like to formerly request whatever information regarding the existing Elk population in our area the Ministry has at this time. Surely there must be some numbers gathered if a transplant is being considered. I feel it’s only fair to share this information with the people that for two years provided input into those numbers.

I look forward to talking with you in the future, on this and on other areas of concerns and I hope that in these future dealings the decided upon framework regarding game management in our Province will be followed. This includes consultation, discussion, and the sharing of relevant information with all interested parties.
I am requesting a written response to this letter and the one from the Quesnel Rod and Gun club within 30 days.
Sincerely,

Tony Koett
BCWF Region 5 - President
CC BCWF Region 5 Clubs
CC Tom Ethier, ADM MFLNRO
CC Andrew Wilson, Director Fish, Wildlife and Habitat
CC Rodger Stewart, Director, Resource Management – Cariboo Region
CC Bob Simpson, MLA Cariboo North
CC Donna Barnett, MLA Cariboo South

[Clouddog]

Just arrived from Pink Mtn. There is lots and lots of Snow happening starting weds. We got our Bison early leaving the rest of the week for whitetail hunting but we left early because of heavy snow.

[Jagermeister]

And what response have you received to date on your letter Tony? Your cc list is substantial, has anyone responded?



Just arrived from Pink Mtn. There is lots and lots of Snow happening starting weds. We got our Bison early leaving the rest of the week for whitetail hunting but we left early because of heavy snow. Glad you were able to get your bison and make it home safely Clouddog.:wink:

[TPK]

And what response have you received to date on your letter Tony? Your cc list is substantial, has anyone responded?

Glad you were able to get your bison and make it home safely Clouddog.:wink:

I received the same letter from Mike Ramsay as the Quesnel Rod and Gun Club received ... only addressed to myself.

[Jagermeister]

The handwriting is on the wall. Where once the resident hunter had a voice in wildlife management, it has now come to pass that the sphere of influence has passed to the indians and the guides. The biologists, who once needed us to help get their work done, have now us cast aside like used slatterns as they hurry on to poke the next harlot.

[gcreek]

TPK or bearvalley, how did the meeting go?

Had a letter from Mike Ramsey read at our local cattlemen's meeting yesterday, quite blunt and self serving if I may say so. Have asked our secretary for a copy to post.

[gcreek]

Just got an email from Donna Barnett MLA, Cariboo South, I quote,

"Just to let you know and could you pass it on the elk relocation is not happening"

[bearvalley]

Just got an email from Donna Barnett MLA, Cariboo South, I quote,

"Just to let you know and could you pass it on the elk relocation is not happening"

Transplant has been put off and replaced with stakeholder consultation until solution is found. Most of the stakeholders met last night,FLNRO staff, BCWF
and QR and G reps, ranchers from the giving and recieving end as well as the Cariboo North MLA.
I heard Donna was passing out emails, to bad she didn't when this was put in front of the Minister.

[Jagermeister]

Wow, that is simply amazing. I thought that the elk were already loaded up and halfway to their new home.
I don't think that you all should hold your breaths though given those that were consulted in this story out of the Kamloops Daily news. Notice the groups consulted and the group that were left out in the cold, "so B.C. Timber Sales worked with the Ministry of Environment, Tk'emlups First Nation and local guide/outfitters".
http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/article/20121123/KAMLOOPS0101/121129963/0/kamloops/mystery-of-the-missing-moose-antlers

[Caribou_lou]

Someone said they were loaded up??

[Caribou_lou]

Transplant has been put off and replaced with stakeholder consultation until solution is found. Most of the stakeholders met last night,FLNRO staff, BCWF
and QR and G reps, ranchers from the giving and recieving end as well as the Cariboo North MLA.
I heard Donna was passing out emails, to bad she didn't when this was put in front of the Minister.

Anything good come out of the meeting?

[bearvalley]

Anything good come out of the meeting?

Possibly, time will tell. At least the other interested parties had a chance to voice their thoughts.