Usefull perspective regarding the wolf issue and what BC is up against.

[horshur]

This is an Email that a friend received from a web address that he uses for government correspondence. Mods can move it. I put it here hoping more would read it.


For those of you that have already commented on the proposed barbaric plan for BC wolves, thank you! For those who have not, there are 12 days remaining! We are now dicovering thatit gets WORSE! I just filed a complaint against the BC Gaming Borad and am asking you to take a moment to do the same. It's easy...https://www.gaming.gov.bc.ca/gaming/inv/Complaint.do (https://www.gaming.gov.bc.ca/gaming/inv/Complaint.do) Why? The BC government allows contests that award money to kill the biggestwolves. The minister of Natural Forests, Lands and Resources has been on record stating that this is perfectly legal and does not require a special gaming permit from the BC Gaming Association. Trying to rationalize this type of human cruelty they claim that the contest doesn't require a license with the BC gaming association because it requires "skill". We all know it doesn't take skill to chase wolves down to exhaustion using powerful engines and then shoot them from rifles. This contest and others like it should be stopped on ethical grounds, now and forever! Trophy hunting has been documentedto be changing the size of species over time. How can humans remove the strongest genes and not expect this to alter entire ecosystems?Read about this in the Vancouver Sun http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/gaming+branch+says+permit+needed+wolf+kill+contest +because+event+skill+based/7591981/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/gaming+branch+says+permit+needed+wolf+kill+contest +because+event+skill+based/7591981/story.html) http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Contest+offers+cash+prizes+wolf+kills+northeastern/7572936/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Contest+offers+cash+prizes+wolf+kills+northeastern/7572936/story.html) "The way that animals are treated is strictly a moral issue. There is no scientific arguement against pedophilia or any other human on human crime". -Jim Robertson, from his book Exposing the Big Game; LivingTargets of a Dying Sport. Some things are just plain wrong. This is one of them. Please comment using the link above.To comment on the Proposed Plan, visit:http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/public-consultation/grey-wolf/ (http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/public-consultation/grey-wolf/) Please remember to include the following points:
1. Extend the deadline for public input to January 30.
2. NO helicopter killing or sterilization of wolves.
3. NO leghold traps, snares or baiting.
4. Return to former species licence, quotas, bag limits, restricted seasons, and mandatory reporting of kills for hunting wolves.
5. A decision and statement that lethal predator control is NOT an option for the recovery of mountain caribou and a stop to the Quesnell Highland wolf sterilization and removal project.
6. A provincial management plan for wolves that considers the social stability of packs as well as population size to ensure the long term conservation of the species in its most natural form.
7. A commitment to reduce wolf-livestock-human conflicts through prevention, and provision of educational initiatives and incentives for responsible husbandry practices.
8. Protect large tracts of habitat for wolves and their prey. Ensure that protected areas are large enough to support multiple wolf families with no hunting/trapping allowed.
Thank you for making a difference! "Be the change you want to see in the world" -M. Gandhi

[Mr. Dean]

This said contest endorses the use of high speed machines to run down wolves???
If so, I think the organizers are screwed.

A couple/few/several years back, there was a thread that linked to a UTube vid of people chasing wolves using sleds on a frozen lake. And IIRC, that vid led to charges of harassment being laid.

[parkerhale308]

If you only knew the extent to the wolf population problems here in the north!
There are far to many wolves here, farmers loose thousands every winter to wolf kills. Its to the point now were you see packs of 15 or 20 at a time and it takes alot of moose meat to feed 20 wolves. You bleeding hearts can stay down south and we will continue to kill every wolf we get a shot at here in the north!

[Mr. Dean]

If you only knew the extent to the wolf population problems here in the north!
There are far to many wolves here, farmers loose thousands every winter to wolf kills. Its to the point now were you see packs of 15 or 20 at a time and it takes alot of moose meat to feed 20 wolves. You bleeding hearts can stay down south and we will continue to kill every wolf we get a shot at here in the north!

You paint me with that brush???

[parkerhale308]

No sorry, not everyone, there are still a few good old boys out there, my bad!

[moosinaround]

Squeaky wheel is turning right now!! Who is going to get the grease? Interesting stuff here!!

[Mr. Dean]

We need a shitstorm more that are willing to get involved.
I can't recall all the lost opprotunity in the past 10 years alone.

All because Hunters sit on their duff's thinking someone else will take care of them....
This is a core issue that will lead to other losses if it goes by unchecked.


A few words does it, as long as there are many that do it.

[Wild one]

We need a shitstorm more that are willing to get involved.
I can't recall all the lost opprotunity in the past 10 years alone.

All because Hunters sit on their duff's thinking someone else will take care of them....
This is a core issue that will lead to other losses if it goes by unchecked.


A few words does it, as long as there are many that do it.


X1000

I have seen a lot of threads with hunters complaining about wolves well here is the chance to speak up and be heard by those who might do something about it.

[ElectricDyck]

Mike Smith talked about this on CKNW today, I didn't have the chance to hear it but my worker said it was the same old bs with detached bleeding hearts phoning in thinking meat is grown on a plant.

[ianwuzhere]

lets put on a bigger contest or bounty on them then we did with osama bin laden until they are controlled :) :)
and the concrete gods living in big cities will weep!

[Sofa King]

ship the wolves to the island.
they are having deer over-population problems there.

[ruger#1]

ship the wolves to the island.
they are having deer over-population problems there. Thats very smart. Since they already have wolves there.

[RiverOtter]

To make any sort of a real impact on the wolf pop, the gloves gotta come off. If poisoning and aerial gunning are off the table, hunting and trapping are merely a "Feel Good" solution that does very little to make a significant difference....

[lovemywinchester]

If you only knew the extent to the wolf population problems here in the north!
There are far to many wolves here, farmers loose thousands every winter to wolf kills. Its to the point now were you see packs of 15 or 20 at a time and it takes alot of moose meat to feed 20 wolves. You bleeding hearts can stay down south and we will continue to kill every wolf we get a shot at here in the north!

Not just up north. We saw a bunch of wolf tracks in the hills around Cherryville this weekend and this rancher is having some bad experiences, The wolves tracks we saw were all on the slopes above this guys ranch. Give this a listen.

http://www.cbc.ca/radiowest/2012/09/25/wolves-a-problem-for-bc-cattle-ranchers/

[horshur]

I just cannot fathom the letter....I was hoping it might motivate some to send in comments of a more reasonable perspective.

[gcreek]

Mpotzold, what's wrong with using a bait to shoot wolves from?

[The Dude]

ship the wolves to the island.
they are having deer over-population problems there.


...and the hits keep on coming, folks!

[The Dude]

BTW: Good letter Mr Dean. the only thing I found odd is that you denounced special interest groups, said they should be ignored, and then made exceptions for OUR "Special Interest Groups" :D

Other than that, it looks really nicely composed.

[6616]

Excellent letter Dean.

[Spy]

Great letter Mr D well written !

[Mr. Dean]

Excellent letter Dean.

Thanks.
Its not solidified yet, still tweaking...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

One thing for sure though; you guys up north gotta get setting examples for some of us down here because it's HERE where most of the potential support is.
And sadly, it's also a reason why the wolf is outta control now - The main body of hunters aren't residing in the areas that are problematic.

There aren't a lot of idiots like me that are willing to cash in the vaca bank, just to go whack some furry tails... :lol:

[Mr. Dean]

I just cannot fathom the letter....I was hoping it might motivate some to send in comments of a more reasonable perspective.

I think the author of that letter is/was on crack.
The arguments of skill versus luck is FULL of holes and I highly doubt a lawyer would wanna pick that one up.

At best it's sensationalism and I just refuse to join 'em in that kind of rhetoric.

[bridger]

This said contest endorses the use of high speed machines to run down wolves???
If so, I think the organizers are screwed.

A couple/few/several years back, there was a thread that linked to a UTube vid of people chasing wolves using sleds on a frozen lake. And IIRC, that vid led to charges of harassment being laid.

the contest does not condone the use of high speed machines to run down wolves. that is pure bullshit and any one that even suggests the organizers would endorse that is bullshit.

[Mr. Dean]

the contest does not condone the use of high speed machines to run down wolves. that is pure bullshit and any one that even suggests the organizers would endorse that is bullshit.

Thanks, I had a hard time swallowing that pill!

[Mr. Dean]

That’s the way I see it. :smile:

I think you're confusing Hunting for Conservation Concerns.
Concerns that are having disastrous consequences on wildlife and stock animals alike...

[ravensfoot]

Well written Mr. Dean!!

[Wild one]

I don't hunt over bait but use bait station for trapping. I can tell you one thing it is a lot of work to maintain a bait station and not as easy as you might think to get wolves hitting a bait and keep them around. It is also going to be a hell of a lot harder to get them to hit the bait during day light hours.

You can't just throw bait out anywhere and expect to shoot a wolf it just does not work that way.

I don't hunt over bait but I can respect the effort and challenge of it from trapping. If you think it is shooting fish in a barrel I challenge you to go try it and I bet you will come back a lot more humble

[Iltasyuko]

If anyone wants to comment on the plan but doesn’t have time to draft some input, feel free to use the below wording. It doesn’t matter if the Province receives the same words from multiple people – adding your name, city and phone will help legitimize your input.

Comments can be entered at the below link until December 5, 2012.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/public-consultation/grey-wolf/


Possible wording:

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````````

Please accept my support for the Draft Management Plan for the Grey Wolf in BC.

I believe in science based resource management, conservation, sustainable predator–prey dynamics and viable wildlife populations that generate economic activity in BC.

I do not support policy resulting in unstable wildlife populations that fluctuate from depressed lows to unsustainable highs, I do not support resource management based on inflated rhetoric and emotion and I do not believe the Grey Wolf should be placed above all other wildlife and allowed to overrun threatened ungulate populations.

Name
City
Phone

[One Shot]

the contest does not condone the use of high speed machines to run down wolves. that is pure bullshit and any one that even suggests the organizers would endorse that is bullshit.

The organizers may not condone it, but it is going to happen (as s#!t does). The organizers cannot enforce or supervise ethics and fair chase.

[gcreek]

I don't hunt over bait but use bait station for trapping. I can tell you one thing it is a lot of work to maintain a bait station and not as easy as you might think to get wolves hitting a bait and keep them around. It is also going to be a hell of a lot harder to get them to hit the bait during day light hours.

You can't just throw bait out anywhere and expect to shoot a wolf it just does not work that way.

I don't hunt over bait but I can respect the effort and challenge of it from trapping. If you think it is shooting fish in a barrel I challenge you to go try it and I bet you will come back a lot more humble

Lots of waiting involved all right. I cheat a bit and have a winter bait within sight of my kitchen window. The count is somewhere around 110 in the last 20 years so the average is not high. I make sure the pile is gone or buried before the grizz wake up in order to not train more of them about beef.

[.330 Dakota]

...and the hits keep on coming, folks!

Dude,,,where did this guy (Duallie) come from?

[The Dude]

PeTA? :D (Kidding, Duallie)

[The Hermit]

ship the wolves to the island.
they are having deer over-population problems there.

Great and like the Irsh and the snakes we can drive them all into the sea! LOL Now only if we could scurry up some leprechauns!

[Mr. Dean]

The organizers may not condone it, but it is going to happen (as s#!t does). The organizers cannot enforce or supervise ethics and fair chase.

Agreed. But it didn't happen *because* of the contest either.

We have Ding-Wings out there doing Wing-Ding things.
No one can control it pecause it's a personal choice.

Chances are they act that way in other surroundings too.

[Mr. Dean]

Great letter Mr D well written !

Nope, its not.
I drafted up sumthin new today after giving the mgmt plan another reading.

I'm going to delete that previous post.

[Mr. Dean]

Here's a snip outta my new draft.

The Grey Wolf populations have escalated to something thatnow requires ‘special management’. Everycitizen of BC needs to share this burden and to be held accountable for thedisastrous state of affairs we’re experiencing at this time - This elephant hasbeen asleep in all our living rooms for a long time yet everyone has been morethan happy looking around the elephant, to the woodpecker that’s perched in atree. I fear if nothing gets done about this massive beast soon, we will all sufferdrastic consequences. We no longer have the leisure of ignoring the problem athand and time is now of extreme essence.
Historically a cull has worked to solve these issues with nodetriment to the Grey Wolf Species. The wolves have always rebounded; it’s whatthey know, it’s what they do and history has demonstrated this to be true severaltimes over. Their survival instincts are absolute exemplary and a cull is a proven,management technique.

In the past, Government has implemented the use of poisons. Ifcost effectiveness and time concerns are a considering factor of the new GreyWolf Management Plan (as so they should), then I sincerely hope that all ofoptions take serious consideration before they are deemed to be non-viable. Ibelieve that an effective cull in the shortest time frame should be our primaryconcern and if poison isn’t a viable option, then we need to acceptaerial assaults as the next primary management tool. Frankly, I truly believeit to be the only alternate viable option as anything else that’s beingconsidered is extremely experimental and calls for the demise of alternatespecies over vast areas of land, namely the Moose.
Having Hunters extirpate Moose populations in order toprotect wolves will in no doubt take several years to implement. And I assumethat once the packs are dispersed, we will be challenged again in neighbouringareas. The plan looks as though the VPD had a crackdown on crime and crime cameto Surrey. Then Surrey cracked down and Langley had increases. Then Langley gotworking and the crime in Vancouver spiked again – I see a vicious circle withMoose being played as a mouse in a cats grasp.
Is it worth it? Iknow for fact that wolves in many parts of BC are highly adaptive and will feedon multiple species, not limiting to ungulates. Once the Moose are gone,ranchers could become sitting ducks and sensitive Elk herds could also. Myopinion is that this tool is too ambiguous.
This management ‘tool’ is, as mentioned earlier,experimental and time consuming. We don’t have time on our side any longer andto be frank, I would much rather see a tool implemented that we knowwill work, and one that’s without any detrimental side-effects.
I would also thinkthat a Moose extirpation model would prove to be very uncomfortable amongstFirst Nation groups who rely on Moose hunting opportunities for sustenance, asthe model calls for “vast areas “to be extirpate in order for it to workproperly.

[bridger]

The organizers may not condone it, but it is going to happen (as s#!t does). The organizers cannot enforce or supervise ethics and fair chase.

Really! You don't know any of the guys in the contest and you make that statement! You don't know anything about how things really work in this contest and you make that! Gotta love guys that know little and say a lot!

[Darksith]

I hope everyone has gone to the ministry site and put their 2 cents in...if your willing to post here, you should be willing to comment on wolf population management. If the gov knows we have their back, then they will feel better about doing the right thing. If they feel everyone is against it they will do nothing. Same with the incoming gov...show we have their back and they may do the right thing...its not the NDP that manage the wildlife, its the bios and the employees that are there through all sorts of political changes.

[.330 Dakota]

I hope everyone has gone to the ministry site and put their 2 cents in...if your willing to post here, you should be willing to comment on wolf population management. If the gov knows we have their back, then they will feel better about doing the right thing. If they feel everyone is against it they will do nothing. Same with the incoming gov...show we have their back and they may do the right thing...its not the NDP that manage the wildlife, its the bios and the employees that are there through all sorts of political changes.

I believe that some of your statement is correct,,however it wasnt the "bio's" that cancelled the grizzly hunt a few years back,,,it was the NDP.....NO DEFINITE PURPOSE

[Mr. Dean]

I believe that some of your statement is correct,,however it wasnt the "bio's" that cancelled the grizzly hunt a few years back,,,it was the NDP.....NO DEFINITE PURPOSE

And is but 1 reason why my letter wants to see a cull fast-tracked.


.... I fear if nothing gets done about this massive beast soon,we will all suffer drastic consequences. We no longer have the leisure ofignoring the problem at hand and time is now of extreme essence.

[Darksith]

I believe that some of your statement is correct,,however it wasnt the "bio's" that cancelled the grizzly hunt a few years back,,,it was the NDP.....NO DEFINITE PURPOSE

no purpose or was it one sided pressure from the antis with no voice coming from us hunters? You gotta speak up or you have no reason to complain about a change