Wild TV Ultimate Shot ?

[greybark]

On the last show the Bowhunter while hunting Roosevelt Elk on Van Isle missed two shots at a bull then connected on a 78 yd shot . I don`t understand the Bowhunter and Guide being so excited with a 33 % success rate . This is exactly what Bowhunters should avoid and is a very poor example .
Cheers

[BiG Boar]

Wonder why they let it get so close. 100 yards isn't that tough.

[Vader]

I would think that hunting within ones limit is the issue. Certainly outside mine. More of a hail mary or "fling" shot hoping for a positive outcome.

[Rock Doctor]

He got his elk, congrats to him.

RD

[ianwuzhere]

i often hear about people throwing many shots at animals with rifles and even bows at long distances..
it happends, i think theres lots of pressure towards the end of the hunt for some of these tv shows.
just think of all the stuff they dont show on the cameras ;)

[knockturnal]

Archie Nesbit is a world renowned archer. He has taken many animals at distances 90% of the norm cannot make/would not take. Just because you think that it is not an ethical shot does not mean the next guy will think the same. My first deer with a bow was at 55 yards. Anyone that shoots with me knows that I like to stretch the distance out of my bow. Hell, I have 8 pins and shoot out to 90yards with broad heads very accurately. Bash him all you want, in the end, it's a matter of personal preference on how comfortable you are with taking long shots. Would you rather they had not shown you the first 2 shots? Even the best of us miss every now and again.

[meesemoot]

That he completely missed twice and kept trying says enough for me. If you can't connect the dots here, you are seriously lacking in the ethics department.

[greybark]

Hey knockturnal , I enjoy Archie`s shows and do respect him . I did not bash him and did not say his shots were unethical . I just questioned the 33% lethal average .
Your archery prowness had nothing to do with my post but I am impressed .

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Archie likes to fling lots of arrows. Although I haven't seen this episode, it sounds like a typical Nesbitt production. Seems like ever not so perfect shot selection is followed by the same excuse.

Have not been impressed with him what-so-ever.


SSS

[Onesock]

Archie or anyone that says a 90 yd shot with a bow is ethical has some serious problems. I don't care if you practise at 90 yds for 12months of the year. Archery targerts don't move. Real animals do move!! All an animal has to do is take a partial step at 90 yds and you have a wounded critter. Bowhunting is supposed to be a close range sport, it is not targer archery.

[Gateholio]

Did the final arrow cleanly kill the elk? What was the elks response to the 2 missed shots?

[TheProvider]

Haven't seen the show and probably never will. I am a dedicated bowhunter. I choose to bowhunt because of the challenge of getting close to the animal. Not for the challenge of taking long shots. Just my personal opinion. Too each thier own.

[jrjonesy]

This is how the math seems to work for those who defend the 80 yard shot.

If it is OK because you're a great shot to take this shot even though on an elk size target you miss 2 out of 3 times.....

......it must also mean that if you can only hit an Elk size target from 20 yards 1 out of 3 times it's ethical to go hunting for them with the bow and limit yourself to a 20 yard shot. (Heck you're only going to miss or wound it 66% of the time).

That's not even considering the other very important fact someone mentioned about how far an animal can move over that distance while your arrow is in the air.

[TheProvider]

I congradulated a guy the other day for shooting a doe at 60yrds. It only went 30yrds before crashing. He was shooting a farely fast setup. He also videod the hunt. When you watch the hunt. The deer is standing broadside when the doe hears the shot she turns quartering away and takes a full step foward before the arrow hits. Makes you open your eyes.

[Rock Doctor]

So here we are, yet again. This will keep coming up time after time until you ethics police give us the answer to the questions:
What is the max ethical shot distance with a bow?
What is the max ethical shot distance with a rifle?

Ive seen plenty if guys make perfect shots over and over at long ranges, only to miss at close range. I suppose your answer for these poor souls is to just give up hunting all together.

RD

[TheProvider]

Simple answer... shoot to the distance that you are comfortable at but always be prepared for the outcome whether good or bad.

[The Dude]

Hey, I like to get sh1t hammered on Peyote and Mescaline and drive home as fast as I can in my giant, safe truck.
I make it back without killing anyone 1/3 times, so that makes me a good driver, right?
Right?

Simple answer to any shot. If you are MISSING most of your shots, stop TAKING them at that range.
Too simple?

[Rock Doctor]

Hey, I like to get sh1t hammered on Peyote and Mescaline and drive home as fast as I can in my giant, safe truck.
I make it back without killing anyone 1/3 times, so that makes me a good driver, right?
Right?

Simple answer to any shot. If you are MISSING most of your shots, stop TAKING them at that range.
Too simple?

So, by your logic, you can get sh1t hammered on peyote and mescaline, dive home as fast as you can in your truck. You make it home without killing anyone 2 out of 3 times, so your a good driver, eh?

As long as I can make 6 out of 10 shots at whatever distance, I'm a great shot, eh?

RD

[BiG Boar]

TO ALL THE HBC SAINTS

Hold on a second. I just watched the show. First off he did miss twice. Once his rangefinder was out of battery and he miscalculated the range, the second miss it hit a twig and deflected. I believe both of these shots were in easy range of the shooters capabilities (I know how much Archie practices, definitley more than most people brush their teeth). Both of these situations will probably happen to every bow hunter once in their life at least. If it hasn't happened to you, you haven't bow hunted enough.

The shot he did take at 78 yards was free and clear of anything. (Keep in mind this guy has shot more animals with a bow than anyone on this site) The elk was fully stopped for some time (though he does practice regularly on moving targets). Perfectly broadside, and he absolutley placed the shot perfectly.

For Archie this was a chip shot. Just because you can't drive as far as tiger woods acuratley does, does not mean its not probable.

For the record I do not know Archie, and am not defending the rest of the stuff he does, but I do know of his capabilites.

[Rock Doctor]

TO ALL THE HBC SAINTS

Hold on a second. I just watched the show. First off he did miss twice. Once his rangefinder was out of battery and he miscalculated the range, the second miss it hit a twig and deflected. I believe both of these shots were in easy range of the shooters capabilities (I know how much Archie practices, definitley more than most people brush their teeth). Both of these situations will probably happen to every bow hunter once in their life at least. If it hasn't happened to you, you haven't bow hunted enough.

The shot he did take at 78 yards was free and clear of anything. (Keep in mind this guy has shot more animals with a bow than anyone on this site) The elk was fully stopped for some time (though he does practice regularly on moving targets). Perfectly broadside, and he absolutley placed the shot perfectly.

For Archie this was a chip shot. Just because you can't drive as far as tiger woods acuratley does, does not mean its not probable.

For the record I do not know Archie, and am not defending the rest of the stuff he does, but I do know of his capabilites.


Irrelevant!
If he was ethical at all, he would have had new batteries in his range finder, and would have tested it before he went on the hunt that day. He would also have checked his shooting lane twice with binos before he even noched an arrow:twisted:

RD

[bowhunterbruce]

i have not watched the show myself however, every situation needs a full evaluation before an attemp is even considered either with a rifle or a bow. there are those who will practice a daily routien and cant can not hit 1/2 the distances they practice at when the pressure is on.
anyone who puts the time in both the field and the targets and have complete confidence in what an animal is doing or going to do. it takes years in the field studying that piticular animal and its habits and traits.
like many others here i too practice up to 90 yards on all various situations, uphill, downhill, etc etc. never would i consider a long shot unless i'm sure the animal is going to stay there during the flight of the arrow.
now i know that there are alot of ethic cops out there however, unless you have hunted ALL your life and have studied every animal that you do hunt to the point of knowing what they are going to do even before they do , then you have no right to condone anyone for making a choice that only that indivual taking the shot makes,
every year i take 1 and usuall 2 animals with my bow, some have been as far away as 56 yards through the willows (heart shot) dead on impact, other have been missed at less then 20 yards (ducked the arrow n shaved some hair)
more often the not, anytime i have missed i have had the oppertunity for a 2nd and even a 3rd shot, with success everytime when the animal didn't know i was there. they would take a few steps and look back and when they don't see any danger they relax.
the bottom line is everytime i go out i never give up, one would be crazy too, they might as well give up the sport. practicing just gives you the confidence to handle every situation should it present itself, and to be calm under pressure only comes from being in the moment and learning from both success and failure
bhb

[BiG Boar]

Irrelevant!
If he was ethical at all, he would have had new batteries in his range finder, and would have tested it before he went on the hunt that day. He would also have checked his shooting lane twice with binos before he even noched an arrow:twisted:

RD

Hahahahaha. Nice one!

[The Dude]

So, by your logic, you can get sh1t hammered on peyote and mescaline, dive home as fast as you can in your truck. You make it home without killing anyone 2 out of 3 times, so your a good driver, eh?

As long as I can make 6 out of 10 shots at whatever distance, I'm a great shot, eh?

RD

I see that sarcasm is lost on some folks.

[Coyote]

Excellent shooting
Shitty hunting

It's a damn poor example to those who can't make that kind of shot. (by the way, he didn't make the shot...twice) Doesn't matter how good you are there are way too many variables for that kind of shot. Wind, unseen obstacles, animal movement, ranging errors. Seen 'em all and all resulted in wounded animals.
If you can't get within 20 or 30 yards of your target take a rifle. Anything else is ego or someone trying to sell something.
I make no apologies for my comments.

'yote

[The Hermit]

If I'm reading Greybark's original post correctly his concern isn't so much with the particular shot or the renowned hunter star but rather the message that those new to bowhunting might surmise... eg its on TV and gee that arrow killed the elk real good, and he kept shooting after missing at that distance so I guess thats the best way to do it... if he can do it so can I". Its the same as someone picking up a crossbow Aug 28 for the early elk season and repeatedly shooting at elk out to 80 yards (seen it).

IMHO its a shitty message to put out there, same with some of the long range rifle shots on TV. Yes, I think there are a lot of idiots out there, and most of us are easily influenced when we are starting out... its irresponsible to not at least have a disclaimer "don't try this at home kids" LOL

[rides bike to work]

as a show its pretty cool to watch archie running around like rambo throwin sticks at animals on expensive guided trips.

I imagine he has to pay for every animal he hits can you imagine how much hes spent on unrecovered animals

This guy has over 50 world records for bow hunting

To do this much hunting he must have some seriouse doe

[bugler]

I can think of a few other examples on TV. Tim Wells from Relentless will take many shots that are pretty sketchy. Also watched those guys from Northern Alberta shoot a moving elk badly at close range and then finish it off at something like 118 yards out in the hayfield. I have no idea how he would know where to hold at that range!!! Ralph (Archers Choice) shot a walking caribou at 60 yards, hit it in the hip, and blamed it on the wind!!! Got lucky and hit the femoral artery, killed it pretty quick. It makes it onto TV because it worked out. My experience tells me that for these productions, and a few others on Wild, there is undoudtedly a lot of footage that does not make to TV because OOOOOPS, it didn't work out.

I wish they would show more of the screw ups due to bad decisions. I give Bowhunter TV credit because that is one show where I have seen this kind of honesty.

[BiG Boar]

To do this much hunting he must have some seriouse doe

he's probably got as much dough as all of HBC has combined. serious, he bought a permit more than once for $250,000.

[The Dude]

Ah, I got it. So the moral of the story is: If you have more money than God, but can't afford batteries for your rangefinder, it's OK to throw arrows at an elk until you eventually hit it, even though there are obstructions in the way, and you have no idea what the range is.
Thanks for clearing that up, dave, I learn so much here.

[tomahawk]

Poor example to set for anyone in the hunting field IMHO. I dont give a shit about who this guy is, he missed 2 of 3 shots, it doesnt matter why, he plain out missed them. He should not have been shooting at this animal, he was not prepared or ready for this challenge he decided to do anyways. A lot of young and new hunters in todays world look for knowledge on TV through hunting shows and through the internet.

[The Dude]

I can shoot you some, but it's a long shot ;-)

[jrjonesy]

So what if one of those first shots, that deflected, had instead of missing, hit it in the guts, and the elk was not recovered? Or if it had taken a step while the arrow was in the air for almost the lenght of football field and got hit in the guts?

Would it of ended up on TV?

If so would it still be being defended so rigorously? As in "oh well, $h#t happens".

I'm not really to vested in what types of shots other people are taking, fill your boots. But, it is interesting how people justify it.

[greybark]

Poor example to set for anyone in the hunting field IMHO. I dont give a shit about who this guy is, he missed 2 of 3 shots, it doesnt matter why, he plain out missed them. He should not have been shooting at this animal, he was not prepared or ready for this challenge he decided to do anyways. A lot of young and new hunters in todays world look for knowledge on TV through hunting shows and through the internet.

Hey Tomahawk , a great to the point post and without the "me" crap .....
Cheers

[Mr. Dean]

If he was blindfolded and spun 3 times, I might be impressed.

[J_T]

Rock Dr, while I work hard not to judge others and believing that ethics is something each of us own, you have asked the question about distance of a shot. Whether you did this to poke fun at the repeat of this discussion or not, I'll give you an answer. For myself, 30 yards is a long shot on any animal. I have hunted with a bow for 20 years, most of it with a recurve, but more recently with a compound. I'm sure you are very clear on appropriate yardage, but where just testing the ethical waters of HBC with your comment.

Bowhunting is about managing risk. In general, the bowhunter's philosophy should be to practice out as far as they can, and hunt as close as they can. A 5 yrd shot can go wrong. Target practice and hunting are very different, a lot of variables come in to play on a fast twitch animal and relatively slow arrow speeds. Many bowhunters on here have recounted how an animal moved, after the shot and before the arrow reached the mark. There are guys out there that will take a confident 50 yard shot. I'm not one of them. To recover an animal on low percentage shots, we need to take into account all of the variables.

In summary, if no one talked about it, it would be fine. But it's on the internet, and as others have said, new bowhunters need to learn a sense of what is a makable shot. 20 yards is a makable shot 80% of the time. For most, 80 yards, is a makable shot 20% of the time. Or in the practised hands of some like Archie, 30% of the time. Is that acceptable? As a hunter, you be the judge.

[Rock Doctor]

A bit of both, to poke fun and not. After 23yrs or so of bow hunting I find this topic a little amusing.
You put it very well when you said "If no one talked about it, it would be fine".

RD

[RayHill]

That he completely missed twice and kept trying says enough for me. If you can't connect the dots here, you are seriously lacking in the ethics department.

X2 if you need to shoot more then once you are not sure about the shot. This means he could have hit it in the ass just as well. Cutting down the distance is the only way of a getting a better chance of the one shot kill that all animals deserve. You are most likely to know your hitting the target at a shorter distance so don't be lazy and end up taking it out on wounding an animal. Hail marry shots ar bs

[hunter1993ap]

if you start wounding or missing animals mabey you should limit your range. i know where i stand and some guys just shouldnt be shooting/hunting altogether. i shake my head at some things people do, and dont believe ethics are personal preference. i believe this because some people could care less if they wound animals. limit yourself so the animal does not have to suffer, not what you feel comfortable with.

[bugler]

I have certainly missed my share in my many years as a bowhunter and I always tell myself that if I had been just a bit better I would have wounded it. Helps to remind me to be sure of my shot, as much as is possible anyway.

[The Dude]

After 23yrs or so of bow hunting I find this topic a little amusing.
You put it very well when you said "If no one talked about it, it would be fine".
RD

A) I don't find it amusing in the least. We're under the microscope more and more every day, as people get more urbanized, and further away from their roots.
B) If no-one talked about something that was on TELEVISION, on an Internet Forum , it would be fine?

This whole thread makes my head shake. Fortunately the "Keep shooting at all costs" crowd is greatly outnumbered by the "Respect the game and know your limitations" Crowd.
Good to see, actually, and gives me some peace.

[GoatGuy]

There are two standards. One is for the every day hunter, the other for the professional.

Just like professional athletes, people on tv shows need to lead by example. They're teaching the next generation of hunter. Personally not a big fan of pros taking marginal/low percentage shots.

[deer nut]

Agree - I saw this show and seriously question the ethics of the shot.

[Coyote]

It's good to see the number of people that see this as a questionable shot. Those who came before us fought damn hard for the right to hunt with a bow. While I admire the skill of anyone capable of accurate long range shooting, it has no place in bowhunting. It's bowhunting, not bow shooting. The right to hunt with a bow is really important to me so I try to speak up in a constructive way anytime I see it. Just my cants worth

'yote

[The Hermit]

I have certainly missed my share in my many years as a bowhunter and I always tell myself that if I had been just a bit better I would have wounded it. Helps to remind me to be sure of my shot, as much as is possible anyway.

Hey thats a great reply! I like the thinking...

[Brez]

See my signature................it's not bowhunting, it's target shooting at a live animal!

[aggiehunter]

Maybe he took lessons from Howard Hill...another launcher...

[J_T]

Maybe he took lessons from Howard Hill...another launcher... ooooohhhh, a burn of biblical proportion.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

There are two standards. One is for the every day hunter, the other for the professional.

Just like professional athletes, people on tv shows need to lead by example. They're teaching the next generation of hunter. Personally not a big fan of pros taking marginal/low percentage shots.

Thats exactly what I think.
those two clowns from Alberta who launch two arrows at the same time from 120 yards at a large muley one gets luck one does not Then they high light the arrows flight!
. A couple of jokes both guys.