Princeton Area

[Deer_Slayer]

Well season ended today in this area and I am dumbfounded as to the lack of deer in this area. After hunting extensively and talking to other hunters I met, I would never recommend this area to anyone that is serious about filling a tag. I am also disturbed by how many carcasses I came across in the woods of deer, moose and elk with half the meat taken and the rest left to rot. Seems like the same MO every time. Backstraps are roughly cut out and hind quarters taken and the rest left. Another shocking thing is that none of these carcasses are being touched by predators or scavengers (except ravens and whiskey jacks) Are all bears wiped out of this area? Word of advice. New hunters asking for areas to hunt..don't listen to members here that direct you to wipsaw, lamont crk, Tulameen, Coalmont etc etc...it's EMPTY of game and all you will come across are cows.

[The Silent Stalker]

Sounds like a diversion, quick everyone get in their trucks and head that way, there must be tons of bucks!

[swampdonkey]

All depends on who you talk to and what you know

[cameron0518]

Saw a dozen in one of those areas today. I guess I was lucky.

[Deer_Slayer]

lol diversion is right..don't go out of your way to hunt here. If seeing a dozen deer all day is considered good then go for it. It's the rut and all day you see 12 deer? All does? Fill your boots.

[Rockchucker1]

My partner and I just getting home from six days up there. Saw 10 bucks and 2 legal 4pts. Very hard hunt with weather making the deer not move much. No snow till yesterday in certain areas. Great time though, met some new folks and had many laughs

[870]

Ive been up there a quite a bit and have seen way more hunters than deer, spending my time walking, all I hear is quads and trucks bombing around. might be time to head up to region 3 to get away from all the pressure.

[blackford]

I don't think it's a diversion. With approx 20 guys I know who have been there and each stayed for approx 5 days each ... So that's 100 hunting days... 1 deer shot. That's all.... That's ridiculous

[Looking_4_Jerky]

Ive been up there a quite a bit and have seen way more hunters than deer, spending my time walking, all I hear is quads and trucks bombing around. might be time to head up to region 3 to get away from all the pressure.

For sure. No pressure here in region 3. When you cross the region boundary you start seeing carcasses of all the big Loueys dying of old age. It's quite a spectacle.

Populations ebb and flow. Hunting, predators, and aboriginal harvest may be suppressing numbers right now, but there will be pockets of deer and you can bet that those deer will bounce back. Whether many live long enough to become big is another question. The Okanagan Nation Alliance has had their annual hunt-out up Whipsaw for several years consecutive. That harvest alone is quite a number. When those hunts are successful, can you guess where those guys go back to the next time they want deer? In addition, add local hunters, and those from the Mainland (which judging from the talk on this forum is twice the number it was historically), you have pretty intense harvest.

[Iron Glove]

Well, my 2012 hunting season was a dead loss due to health problems :cry: but have seen a number of bucks taken in the Princeton / Tulameen area this year.
Yesterday was chatting with a feller whose group took two bucks this side of Pike Mountain.

[Jetboater]

We saw a ton of bucks this year. And killed a couple. Don't seem to have a problem killing bucks in there. This year unsaved my tag for the bow season

[lovemywinchester]

I spent a month last fall Oct-Nov, working in Princeton. It was very snowy and cold early last year so every morning it seemed there was fresh snow. It seemed there were few deer around but the snow showed a different story. Tons of tracks every morning. I had a few days to hunt and got close to a big mulie after they closed while looking for a WT. Saw a WT doe and fawn but no buck. Lots of deer around there but I think the pressure keeps them hidden in the day. You need to get in the thick stuff and hike and wait. They are there.

[Piperdown]

might be time to head up to region 3 to get away from all the pressure.
:shock:
hope you are joking 3 is a shit show for hunters

[keithb7]

I spent 3 days hunting in region 3 near Princeton. On the final day on my way back to camp I finally, briefly saw the ass end of 3 does, dashing into the trees. Before that, I had not seen 1 deer. I was convinced I was going home without seeing one thing. Finally I saw those. Needless to say I did not harvest one. Total hunting time, about 24 hours. 3 does spotted in the 24th hr. Make your own assumptions about how good it is up there. I formed my own, based on my experience there.

[Deer_Slayer]

I spent 3 days hunting in region 3 near Princeton. On the final day on my way back to camp I finally, briefly saw the ass end of 3 does, dashing into the trees. Before that, I had not seen 1 deer. I was convinced I was going home without seeing one thing. Finally I saw those. Needless to say I did not harvest one. Total hunting time, about 24 hours. 3 does spotted in the 24th hr. Make your own assumptions about how good it is up there. I formed my own, based on my experience there.


Yeah I have hunted a long time, and this area sucks. It is all cattle range and the stinking cows I think are eating all the vegetation. There is no sign of wildlife whatsoever. Last day of Mulie season I was up at 5 am, hiked up into mountains "again" and travelled all along a ridgetop glassing and looking and not one sign of deer, bear, elk, moose..NOTHING but F'n cows. End of day was down and headed into Lamont Crk and Wipsaw. Drove to back end of Lamont in about 2-3 inched fresh snow. Not one single ungulate track of any size. All I saw was wolf track and coyote track. If what I am reading is true, the natives are in here so they wipe out everything. Piss me off and they portray themselves as the great conservationsits! BS

[olympia]

Yeah I have hunted a long time, and this area sucks. It is all cattle range and the stinking cows I think are eating all the vegetation. There is no sign of wildlife whatsoever. Last day of Mulie season I was up at 5 am, hiked up into mountains "again" and travelled all along a ridgetop glassing and looking and not one sign of deer, bear, elk, moose..NOTHING but F'n cows. End of day was down and headed into Lamont Crk and Wipsaw. Drove to back end of Lamont in about 2-3 inched fresh snow. Not one single ungulate track of any size. All I saw was wolf track and coyote track. If what I am reading is true, the natives are in here so they wipe out everything. Piss me off and they portray themselves as the great conservationsits! BS


so you think its the natives? anything to back it up with? are you just mad because you failed to harvest to expectations? think maybe deer are there and you did not see? maybe they moved to diferent area, maybe a disease is wiping them out, maybe they are on their "down" cycle and in a couple years we will having them jump into the backs of our trucks like some areas of bc, who knows. But to come onto here and blame the natives is wrong, maybe they are problem maybe not, ever think of starting a committee or getting signatures to lobby our mla to fund a study to find out what is going on? maybe its a simple fix maybe not but pointing fingers is not gonna make the deer come back.

[aggiehunter]

Stay in Vancouver then

[curt]

so you think its the natives? anything to back it up with? are you just mad because you failed to harvest to expectations? think maybe deer are there and you did not see? maybe they moved to diferent area, maybe a disease is wiping them out, maybe they are on their "down" cycle and in a couple years we will having them jump into the backs of our trucks like some areas of bc, who knows. But to come onto here and blame the natives is wrong, maybe they are problem maybe not, ever think of starting a committee or getting signatures to lobby our mla to fund a study to find out what is going on? maybe its a simple fix maybe not but pointing fingers is not gonna make the deer come back.
Well if you read all the post on this topic it would appear that the natives have been in that area doing what they do! Its nothing new so why it would upset you to hear it is funny, its happening in many regions its not an insult its reality and trust me I'm very much in tune with the native culture but i dont agree with the free for all on our game they get and take full advantage of more and more every year... or maybe it's just being noticed now!?

[dragonslayer]

:shock:
hope you are joking 3 is a shit show for hunters

Region 8 is also a shit show for hunters, been out and also no game showing up, always been bumper to bumper traffic and no game , I find this unbelievabe, never have seen that the animals don't show, but it sure has happend lately over the last 2 years, just my 2 cents

[olympia]

im not trying to be funny or sarcastic, but i think its time we get some animal biologists to look into it and maybe they can shed some light on whats going on. I find in other aspects of life things tend to happen in cycles so this might be no different. If I had to guess I would say the animals are going deeper into the bush than normal, it seems there are more roads leading into the forest all the time increasing accesibility, also there seems to be more and more guys on quads, gators and 4x4's which enable to go more often into places people usually walk into, I could be totally off but we do know there is less game out there so every "ever effect has a cause"

[locdog_99]

i gueess most of you guys where in the wrong part saw legal bucks everyday upuntill nov 9

[steel_ram]

Within a few hours of the lower mainland (including Surrey). What do you expect. I know some property owners in the Princeton area. They definately have their spots, and there not Whipsaw through Sunday summit.;)

[buck nash]

Haven't been up there this year but I know of one group of 4 guys that got 3 deer between them on a 5 day trip, early in the season.

I think lovemywinchester's got it right. They're there, but they see a lot of pressure and are way more wary and nocturnal than other populations.

[pipe-it]

i put 3 days in around red creek area and saw more yotes and cats than deer.
found evidence of elk around hamberger but no deer just cows
i drove hiked and sat and waited,nothin
the area seemed to have little track as well
not graet to see half carcasses left in the bush too

[Jetboater]

It's funny you guys a lot run around chasing these deer with trucks quads and everything else. When you don't see anything it's the native, the wolves, coyotes, and maybe the tooth fairies fault. Sounds to me like you just suck at hunting or your in the wrong spot. Focus on small areas no the whole mountain. I saw 5 bucks on Thursday in a 500 yrd patch of timber and it took me all day to cover maybe a 1000 yd patch of timber. Quite your whinning and learn to hunt

[Looking_4_Jerky]

Well if you read all the post on this topic it would appear that the natives have been in that area doing what they do! Its nothing new so why it would upset you to hear it is funny, its happening in many regions its not an insult its reality and trust me I'm very much in tune with the native culture but i dont agree with the free for all on our game they get and take full advantage of more and more every year... or maybe it's just being noticed now!?

OK before everyone thinks I started this indian-bashing, I should take my earlier post a step further.

I don't know why the non-native hunting community is so astounded that natives hunt. If you can wrap your head around that, keep reading. If you think that indians are going to stop hunting, pull you head out of the sand. The annual ONA hunt-out is merely a continuation of a traditional practice where the men would gather with others of their Nation and collect game on expeditions to support the rest of their communities. The alternative is that they each hunt in their own areas, but traditionally that would mean that some groups did well while others starved, so they would collaboratively focus on areas with good densities for obvious reasons. This is no different than you going to Princeton from Surrey because you are not thrilled about the prospect of hunting mule deer around your home. Areas with high densities are better able to support those kinds of harvests, and when the densities fall below acceptable levels and people and predators move on, the populations are allowed to recover to their normal healthy levels.

Nobody will deny the indians have hunted Whipsaw for a few years and taken a fair number of animals. The question is, so what? If they'd gone somewhere else people would be bitchin about that too. Every care to find out how many animals get smoked on the hwy around there in a year?? Are white dudes from the Mainland pissed because the true locals are hunting in their own back yards and traditional hunting areas? Get a grip. I never said that the natives wiped everything out up there, I merely accounted for the harvest along with predators, honky hunters and natural stuff and said it would probably bounce back (if it is even depressed in the first place, which I doubt).


ever think of starting a committee or getting signatures to lobby our mla to fund a study to find out what is going on? maybe its a simple fix maybe not but pointing fingers is not gonna make the deer come back.

Olympia, I wish that were realistic, but in a world where health care and education are ill-funded, I don't think the general public gives two Sh*ts about why the deer numbers are down in Whipsaw. Even I as a hunter don't care. Numbers down in Whipsaw? Head elsewhere. Bad numbers there too? Accept the fact that even under natural conditions there are going to be times where game is of less relative abundance than others. Throw humans into the mix and you have an almost impossible task of determining what is driving population biology, how it is doing so, and what you'd have to do to "stabilize" populations (which is unnatural and unrealistic anyway).

[steel_ram]

OK before everyone thinks I started this indian-bashing, I should take my earlier post a step further.

I don't know why the non-native hunting community is so astounded that natives hunt. If you can wrap your head around that, keep reading. If you think that indians are going to stop hunting, pull you head out of the sand. The annual ONA hunt-out is merely a continuation of a traditional practice where the men would gather with others of their Nation and collect game on expeditions to support the rest of their communities. The alternative is that they each hunt in their own areas, but traditionally that would mean that some groups did well while others starved, so they would collaboratively focus on areas with good densities for obvious reasons. This is no different than you going to Princeton from Surrey because you are not thrilled about the prospect of hunting mule deer around your home. Areas with high densities are better able to support those kinds of harvests, and when the densities fall below acceptable levels and people and predators move on, the populations are allowed to recover to their normal healthy levels.

Nobody will deny the indians have hunted Whipsaw for a few years and taken a fair number of animals. The question is, so what? If they'd gone somewhere else people would be bitchin about that too. Every care to find out how many animals get smoked on the hwy around there in a year?? Are white dudes from the Mainland pissed because the true locals are hunting in their own back yards and traditional hunting areas? Get a grip. I never said that the natives wiped everything out up there, I merely accounted for the harvest along with predators, honky hunters and natural stuff and said it would probably bounce back (if it is even depressed in the first place, which I doubt).



Olympia, I wish that were realistic, but in a world where health care and education are ill-funded, I don't think the general public gives two Sh*ts about why the deer numbers are down in Whipsaw. Even I as a hunter don't care. Numbers down in Whipsaw? Head elsewhere. Bad numbers there too? Accept the fact that even under natural conditions there are going to be times where game is of less relative abundance than others. Throw humans into the mix and you have an almost impossible task of determining what is driving population biology, how it is doing so, and what you'd have to do to "stabilize" populations (which is unnatural and unrealistic anyway).

I don't want a bashing native thread either but the above post is typical of what bugs me most about native attitudes. They pick and choose what parts of their traditions work for them. If they overhunt (ruin) their area, traditionally they would have starved, as posted above. Now they get into modern non-traditional vehicles and go hunt out somewhere else. Traditionally other "nations" did not always put up with that. Then there's the hole method thing. Traditional? Talk about having your cake and eating it.

The East slope of Manning Park use to be incredible hunting as it is a major migration route. Unfortunately it has become inundated with roads and open cutblocks, to the point where any buck that pops out, has a rifle muzzle pointed at it. There are still a few corridors that are either private propert or out of physical reach of our generally out of shape, lazy hunting population. Hopefully there are still plenty of big buck genetics around.

[aggiehunter]

We had a race of people who wholesale slaughtered game animals and market hunted years and years ago...even WE had to control ourselves......they have no idea who is killing what and how many....and I too know natives and there culture as well.