Close-quarters Bear Gun? [Archive]

wetcoaster

12-01-2006, 01:36 PM

If that is truly the purpose of the rifle it needs to be:

Light, but not so light you are afraid to practice with it as it is useless if you don't know that rifle and it's point of impact inside out.

Fast, short barrel, in a fast repeating action that is reliable with fast peep or open sites

Plenty of power, in a big bore cartridge like the 45/70

Translation Marlin guide gun. Will serve for other hunting situations as well so it is more versatile than the defender. I have worked extensively in bear country doing fish and wildlife surveys and carried a defender in a shoulder holster it was fast and stayed dry when I was wading but if you want the gun for more than just defense go with a big bore or large medium bore rifle with the chracteristics above.

wetcoaster

12-01-2006, 02:00 PM

A .454 Cassul/.480 Ruger/.50 S&W/etc in a nice light/easy to pack handgun would be my preference, but unfortunately, such things are illegal in this country.

So, failing that, I'd say that a 45/70 in a fast action gun (lever is good) is an old standby that you won't go wrong with - it would be kind of like having a 30-06 for a deer/elk rifle - there's bigger and more powerful around, but it works, works well, and everybody knows it.

The handgun thing ticks me off too. There really isn't much better than a really big handgun on your hip as a backup to your thumper of choice as it can be unholstered and manouvered even during a mauling. Things happen rarely!!!!!!! but when they do it is fast!

Sitkaspruce

12-01-2006, 02:02 PM

I carry, while guiding, a custom 358 win w/ a 20' Barrel, a 1.75 x 6 leopold and see through rings. It shoots 250 hornadys at 2400 fps and hits with authority. It also doubles as a great timber gun and I can shoot lighter bullets for longer shots.

When I work in the bush, I carry a shotgun because of the ease of carrying and ease of function. Forget the pistol grip though, I have a folding stock and shoot slugs and SSG.

There is a great study done by the Alaska Fish and Game that rates all firearms for bear protection. I can not find it right now, maybe someone else has the link. I believe that they rate the .375 as the best.

todbartell

12-01-2006, 02:04 PM

make mine a 416 rem mag, if I had to keep a bear from eating me

Mckinney Creek Adventures

12-01-2006, 02:21 PM

I work in the bush and pack a defender. Pistol grip equiped because of the nature of work and the thick bush I work in. Would be interested in seeing your folding stock Sitca, if you have a picture along with where you found it.

Have had it drawn on one cougar, one grizzly, and a couple of black bears, but yet to have to kill anything with it. But I am sure it will do the job when the day comes along, all you have to do is shoot is a couple of times to figure that out. In a working situations, I think this is probably the best gun, assuming we are ruling out handguns of course, because of the ruggedness and size of the gun. I have packed mine consistently for ten years now, and have cleaned it occasionally. It shoots as fast as anything.

Strictly close range self defence (Defender)..........

1 oz. slug hearled @ around 2000 fps = broken bone and significant damage.

StoneChaser

12-01-2006, 02:40 PM

It depends.

For hunting close quarters... give me a bolt action 375 H+H w/1.5-6x leupold scope.

In my mind, the ultimate bear protection for working/hiking is the Winchester Mod 94 Trapper in 45 Colt.

Stoke it up with 330gr cast @ 1400fps and you have a formidable weapon. I has serious capacity, mild recoil (follow up shot), is very short, light, and downright handy.

Sure the 416 Rigby in a double rifle would be nice (but heavy and cumbersome), and my handgun was portable (it was a PITA to keep papered and stored though)... but in my experience, the best "bear defence" rifle is the one you have in your hands at the moment you see a bear.

Having worked in the bush for a number of years (still do), portability is the key to a good shootin' iron.

If it is not convienient it stays in the pickup.

The Model 94 Trapper 45 Colt can do it all.... in fact 2 friends of mine have picked them up in the last year for these exact reasons.

StoneChaser

GoatGuy

12-01-2006, 02:50 PM

another vote for the defender. Light, small and leaves big holes - it's a definite show stopper. Most of the guys I've worked with pack 45/70s for bears but that's mostly because they think they're cool.

Marc

12-01-2006, 04:19 PM

Most of the guys I've worked with pack 45/70s for bears but that's mostly because they think they're cool.

I bought a Marlin 45/70 with the 22 inch barrel and Ghost rings this spring. I love that rifle for a close range brush gun/defender. It's so quick to shoulder and get on target.

Ive taken a 5'4" freezer bear with it at 32 yards this spring and droped it in it's tracks.

I shot a blacktail this fall at 68 yards front to back and recoverd the bullet after it had traveled through the brisket, lung, liver, stomach, intestines, it then broke the deers hip passed throught the hind quarter and lodged underneath the hide.

The Marlin 45/70 has me sold on it for a defender/heavy brush rifle.

Marc.

Will

12-01-2006, 04:19 PM

The Model 94 Trapper 45 Colt can do it all.... in fact 2 friends of mine have picked them up in the last year for these exact reasons.
They are FUN....I've owned several 8)

However if I told you How many of them I've seen Jam or just plain Break on the firing line while ROing at Match's...It's kinda sickening actually.:|

True a 94 is better then a Stick but a 94 Winchester Factory Bubba'd to cycle short Pistol cartridges is the Last rifle I'd bet my Life on :|

My Buddy has a new 92 Winchester Clone chambered in 454 Casull.
It is ONE SWEET little Rifle8)

youngfellla

12-01-2006, 04:34 PM

Close quarters?
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/Grizz-3.jpg

Marlin Guide Gun - 45/70. This guy got thumped at 35-40 yards by a 400 grain flat-nose on a dead run. It looked like he was hit by a train.

I picked up a CZ 550 in 416 Rigby this summer, and will be using it for spring grizz loaded this year with some 350 TSX's @ 2750 fps. The 45/70 will come along as backup though.

Poguebilt

12-01-2006, 04:44 PM

I got a 45/70 guide gun in stainless.... if its in my hands at the time i'll feel safe!

ape

12-01-2006, 05:03 PM

I myself have the 45-70 loaded with 420gr craterlites.

hunter1947

12-01-2006, 05:42 PM

375 HH MAG for me at clouse quarters, hunter 1947.

browningboy

12-01-2006, 06:15 PM

Whats a 45 / 70 worth? I have a 338 win mag and it seems to punch holes pretty good, but for close in open sight, the 45 / 70 would probly kick ass. Anyone have one to trade for a brand new 243 win mag ultra light??? Not an old POS, mines literally brand new with a baush and laumb scope, so if someone was interested, it would have to be decent.8)

kutenay

12-01-2006, 06:54 PM

I have spent a lot of time working alone in Grizzly country, starting in April, 1965 and also protecting dipschitt treeplanters who, being Californian "mountain men", hippies and fembos knew it ALL about bears and how to deal with them, just like those on certain American "hunting" sites still do.....in their own minds, anyway........

I have packed a number of rifles and cartridges and prefered my old custom P-64 Mod. 70-.375 H&H with 300 NPs over anything. I have a 1972 Marlin Mod. 95 with a ghost ring and post as well as a Browning 1886 SRC repro with Ashley ghost ring plus post and I load these with Kodiak, Swift A-Frame and Bullet Barn 400 gr. HC bullets to about 1850 FPS, BUT, these rifles are not designed for this level of recoil and are VERY hard to shoot quickly due to this.

I also used my P-64 .338s with 250 NPs, several CRF .30-06s with 200 NPs and my Ruger Redhawk 5.5"-.44Mag. with 250 HCs as well as several 12 ga. pump guns with slugs. For most people, I think that a good, CRF bolt .30-06 with 220NPs loaded to 2500 fps. is probably the best choice, overall, as the recoil is manageable.

I have shot .378 Weatherbys, Ultramags, .416s, .458s and so on and I am not recoil sensitive, but, most people do not shoot hard-kicking rifles well and NO bullet will stop a bear if you don't put it where it needs to go. I also think that handguns for bears is largely a fantasy, they are a real PITA to carry, hard to shoot under stress and lack any real stopping power. I have seen about 12 Grizzlies and maybe 50 Blacks killed and base my opinions on this plus packing for many years. YMMV.

30-06

12-01-2006, 07:29 PM

i would take what ever i felt comfortable shooting

alremkin

12-01-2006, 07:34 PM

416 Remington loaded with Barnes 350 gr XXX bullets @ 2600+fps.8-)

RiverOtter

12-01-2006, 09:27 PM

Give me a good old 06 bolt action and some heavy NP's.

I have shot a bear in self defence; With a lowly .270. Staying cool and hitting the mark with a good penetrating bullet is the grail, not a big bore. A solid hit to the head, even if you miss the brain should stop or slow the charge enough to allow good follow up shots. In my case, I waited for the bear to cross the 10 yard line before my first shot, which if I am ever in that situation again, will be 25 if the situation allows. 10 yards leaves no room for error, like a misfire or safety still on. Bears are not a threatened species and the ones that are bold enough to charge a human, need and should take an eternal nap.

RO

Animal.5

12-01-2006, 10:02 PM

I've taken about 2 dozen bear. Use a Marlin 1895 45-70 with see through sights and leupold scope. Had one charge me and dropped it 21 feet from me. Use Winchester Gold Partition 300's. Last one weighted 565 pounds. Skull 19 5/16 inches. This rifle is quick to sight, fast follow up if needed. I've used a Winchester Model 70 306 and Ruger 338 WM but the 45-70 has proven the best.

jimh

12-02-2006, 12:31 AM

My 350 would be my choice but when I'm trapping and carrying a gun for bear protection it always seems to be raining here. So this year I picked up a stainless guide gun that I've been trying to buy from this fellow for several years. It is one of the ported ones that they don't make any more. Now if I could only get the wild west ghost ring sights and a their trigger kit I would be happy.:) Jim

hunter1947

12-02-2006, 05:37 AM

bad arrow

12-02-2006, 07:37 AM

When travelling in bear country I pack a remington 12 ga pump 18 inch barrell full of slugs, I have a pistol grip as well as a stock, I prefer the stock because then I can aim it from the shoulder. I find it light, fast, and an ounce of lead will produce the desired effect on any bear at close range.

Walksalot

12-02-2006, 07:57 AM

If a guy, gender neutral, practices with a hunting rifle long enough that shouldering it is a natural act embeded in ones subconscious would this not be the weapon the carry for any situation. I question the caliber as it is having the ability to shoot accurately under a stressfull situation which will bail ones ass out of a sticky situation.
By choice I have never shot a bear and hope I never have to in a defensive situation. I have been false charge by a sow with cubs and she came out of the bush at about 15 yds. and stopped at about 10 ft. I was unarmed at the time but it would not have made a lick of difference as there was no time to think about a weapon. The only thing which just about got loaded was my bloomers.

mapguy

12-02-2006, 08:41 AM

I've had the pleasure of a black bear sow charge at me from ten ft. 30-30
fliped her completly over mind you she was coming over a big log at the time.
1 shot did it.
I,ve also had a black bear come off a high bank10-12 ft 1 shot it with 30-06 and it fell 1 inch from my toes.
Got a little pumped on those.
any 30 cal gun will take out blacks for grizz I bought a 300 mag

kutenay

12-02-2006, 08:42 AM

I have carried my Redhawk .44 Mag. with special "Grizzly" handloads while working in the bush and my handgun experience goes back to 1968. My handgun training comes from the head instructor at the J.I. so I do have some ability in this respect.

For most people, I still think that a handgun against Grizzlies is largely a fantasy as they do not have the skills to draw and fire and HIT a lethal spot in time to stop a charge. In an attack, I seriously doubt that the vast majority of people would stay cool enough to draw a pistol while "under" a bear and then kill it with a brainshot.

I have spoken with survivors of maulings and dealt with a lot of bears and witnessed experienced hunters fumble their rifles, unload them without firing and put themselves in jeopardy at the sudden appearance of a Grizzly within 25 yds., even though I warned them that the bear would circle us and approach from behind.

So, I feel that the best practice is to have one dedicated bear gun that you carry all the time and are totaly familiar with. My latest choice are Mausers in 9.3x62 loaded with 286 Nosler Pts. at 2400 fps., a combo that was not available when I was working, but, is as close to perfect as I can envision. If, someone just wants to pack a pistol, no problem, but, having done it and been close to a Grizzly with it, I don't think that it is a real tool for the task, but, each to his own.

phoenix

12-02-2006, 09:39 AM

After watching all the "BEAR DEFENCE" weapons that people brought up to the POCO gun club when I was the resident manager I have to laugh at the whole idea. Most people do not have the shooting skills in a calm unrushed situation to raise a gun, aquire a sight picture and get off any meaningful shots at a rapidly moving target. Very, very few can do it in the 5-10 high pressure seconds you have during a bear charge. I proved this to many people up there by setting up IPSC targets at 25-20-15-10-5yd. increments and giving them 10 seconds with 2 second beeps on an IPSC timer so they had 2 seconds to shoot first target(25yd), 2 on 20 etc. Most of these were tried gun in hand, round chambered, safety on. Very few hits, I won a lot of beer! My own personal choice is BEAR SPRAY. I've had to use it on 2 black bears up here that my dogs have bothered and then brought back to show me and let me tell you, it stops them dead in their tracks and leaves them crying like babies while I have beaten a hasty retreat. My$.02
Kim

itsme

12-02-2006, 10:01 AM

45-70 gets my vote
shot a bear at 5 yards
hit the bear in shoulder and went full length of bear as it as facing me- and exited
when it hit him it just about flipped him - almost did a summersault
knocked him off all feet onto his head
- and levered another shell and had it on him befor he could recover himself-no need for follow up shot he jumped to my right made two leaps and piled up
have a ghost ring on mie and works perfect
week later would take my bull elk with it
45-70 does it all :)

Mckinney Creek Adventures

12-02-2006, 10:08 AM

Bear spray for some, defender for me. I know my reaction time and ability and I will pack my defender for sure. I to have my dog with me in the bush as much as can because nothing is going to sneak up on me.. Has to be a good dog though, not a bone head!

I was working near Big White last year and was headed straight for a Grizz sow and cubs, when I heard them go up a tree. Dog came back to me and a half a minute later the sow came over the hill. I acted agressive and yelled as loud as I could (with defender in hand ready to rip) and she stopped at 25 yards and allowed be to back off. Must have seen the boom stick in my hand!

You can argue that the dog made the situation worse, but I was 75 yards away in thick timber when they went up. If I walked in on them I would be toast.

I had this happen to me once with a Blacky sow and cubs also, except the sow didnt come back to us. Once the dog was gone, I seen here taking here cubs away.

I have never had my dog bring anything back to me hot on there heals, but I have had a partners dogs chase and push a black right to me above Penticton. It seen me and took off in the other direction. Must have seen the gun in my hand too!

My opinion.. I live, work and play in the bush. %$%^#$ happens rarely, but when it does I believe in being prepared!

MCA

Bugsy

12-02-2006, 10:29 AM

My vote goes again for the ever popular Marlin :lol: .I would take one in either 45-70 or 450.The ones I have used have had a very low tendacy to jam-up.:frown: Wich is kinda up there on the list when speakin of bear defense.

On the other hand it's what ever you are comfortable and capable with.A friend of mine had to put down a charging grizz at close range with his 7-08.:eek: But it did the trick and thats what he hapened to have with him.Bugsy.8)

geologist

12-28-2006, 11:51 PM

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/pbgeologist/bearguns0001_r1_1.jpg

Left to right.

Marlin 1895 GS 45-70, WWG ghost ring, happy trigger, ejector, light mount with Insight M3, Williams Fire Site with cutaway hood. It's a good carry rifle with a Browning X-Cellerator sling.

BRNO 602 .375 H&H. Barrel shortened to 20", forward sling stud has been removed and replaced with a barrel band swivel. This is a Mauser action so it is a controled round feed, magazine (floorplate) capacity 6 rounds, express sights. This is my camp rifle. With the shortened barrel, a 300 gr bullet does about 2520 fps.

BRNO 600 30-06. I don't use this for close range bear defense.

Mossberg 500A 12 guage with a Choate top folder stock and a light mount. I don't use this for bear defense any more as the BRNO and Marlin are more reliable.

Ruger Super Redhawk .454 Casull. I have an ATC so this is a legal carry handgun. I use a Mernicle flap holster on a 2.25" duty belt.

model88

12-29-2006, 01:12 AM

I pack a Defender when I guide. But just on a side note, if you wanted to pack a pistol for guiding, you used to be able too. You needed some kinda paperwork from the outfitter, then you were good to go as long as you were guiding.

Things may have changed, but thats the way it was about 3-4 years ago.

twoSevenO

12-29-2006, 07:10 PM

Mulies

12-29-2006, 07:17 PM

Sitkaspruce the 12 ga. has as much stopping power as anything at close range I agree. But be carefull about loading it with SSG. I told a friend about alternating SSG and slugs and he talked to a gamewarden about it and was told if the gun had more than 3 shells in it, and any where SSG and he could be charged.

The 'Hummer'

12-29-2006, 08:25 PM

Bear hunting where quarters are close or if there is the likelihood of thick bush conditions, my choice would be my .45-70 Marlin GS guide model with Speer 400gr FN handloads. Again, hunting but in more open terrain, I'd take the .375 H&H with 300gr Hornady RN IB handloads. For protection while say hiking, if a sidearm was allowed, my 4" model 29 using 250gr SW handloads would be an absolute minimum, so I'd rather take the .500 S&W. The choice of a friend of mine, who is a guide, is a 12ga SxS with slugs when he has to finish off a wounded Bear in bushy country.

browningboy

12-29-2006, 11:24 PM

I had a talk about this 45-70 with a gunsmith and he mentioned if you don't handload , buy a 450 as they factory ammo has way more umph! The reason being that other manufacturers started making the 45-70 and used weaker steel thus the bullet suppliers can only make the factory ammo to the weakest link (safety) so the reputable manufacturer just recently made a new caliber thus the 450 and its just basically a 45-70 with a hot load, I guess alls good for now until China follows.
For me I have a 338 win mag with 250 grainers but also a defender.

Blktail

12-29-2006, 11:32 PM

If you intend to pack a gun for protection while you work in the bush - don't bother. My brothers worked in the bush, and both say that bears in scarey encounters move too quick to get a shot off. Both have been fortunate that the bears never finished their charges. My younger brother in particular had a number of encounters, one of which left him with paw prints on his chest. He packed a defender for a while, but soon tired of the extra weight and trouble. He stoppped when a deer almost ran him over quicker than he could recognize there was a problem.:)

Hunting is different. Use what you can shoulder and shoot quickly and accurately. Practice lots. Then practice some more!

Will

12-29-2006, 11:55 PM

Any Centrefire Cartridge is better for Bear Protection then what Treadwell carried.....:|

Ron.C

12-30-2006, 12:16 AM

I have never carried anything but pepper spray," except my bow :lol: " and have not needed it. But last year my hunting partner and I dropped an elk late evening during bow season and had to return to the sight after dark to pack out all the meat. The temperature was too warm to leave it till the next morning. We left a strobe headlamp in a tree at the site beffore we left and on our return we both had spray, made as much noise as possible, and returned to the sight making lots of noise and stopping several times to look and listen before getting too close. Fortunately for us, we completed our task without incident. In hind sight, and in preparation for next year, I think a shotgun in this situation would be a good idea. I agree that if most hunters "myself included" if were suddenly surprised by a bear in full charge in close quarters, most would not be able to make a fatal shot that would prevent the attack. In our case though, when returning to a kill site, You can safely make the assumption that it is very possible that a bear is on the site, and then at least you have an educated idea of where the bear would be, inturn being as prepared as possible with a firearm for any possible encounter. While bowhunting though, carrying a defensive gun is another 4-7 pounds that I don't need to lug around that in an instant, I couldn't access anyway. Just my 2 cents...

Barracuda

12-30-2006, 12:27 AM

[quote=browningboy]I had a talk about this 45-70 with a gunsmith and he mentioned if you don't handload , buy a 450 as they factory ammo has way more umph! The reason being that other manufacturers started making the 45-70 and used weaker steel thus the bullet suppliers can only make the factory ammo to the weakest link (safety) so the reputable manufacturer just recently made a new caliber thus the 450 and its just basically a 45-70 with a hot load, I guess alls good for now until China follows.
quote]

I think it is commonly downloaded for the old trap door 45-70 .

If you want a warm load for the 45-70 get the Hornady ammo lever evoloution ammo
it throws a 325 g bullet at 2050fps with 3032 ftlbs of energy which is hotter then any of redily available mainstream ammo makers. and the price is very reasonable

Bushman

12-30-2006, 11:05 AM

Although it's a little dated, the following downloadable report (in pdf. file format that requires Adobe Acrobat) has some extremely interesting information on short range rifle/bullet performance that might be a surprise to some:
Safety in bear country: protective measures and bullet performance at short range. Author: Meehan, W.R.; Thilenius, J.F.
http://www.treesearch.fs.fed.us/pubs/5573

I think this is the report Sitkaspruce had mentioned in his post?
I received a copy from the BCWF some years ago.

Bushman

Schmaus

12-30-2006, 11:46 AM

.450 marlin is what i'll be trying to slam a bear with this year I should have it in about two weeks. With the LeverEvolution ammo it gets 2225 with a 325 grainer. I think it will ventilate a bear nicely maybe I will go for moose with it as well.

The 'Hummer'

12-30-2006, 01:11 PM

Some mention has been made of not having time for a shot in a suprise Bear attack and in some instances, that may be true. However, there are probably just as many occasions where if your observant, aware of your surroundings and 'ready' you would have time, for at least one shot. Even if you didn't, I recall an instance where having a firearm was an asset, even after the attack had begun. Years ago a Game Warden in the Bowron Lake region, Frank Kibbee, was attacked and badly mauled by a Grizzly. Apparently what saved his life was he emptied his .45 Colt SAA into the Bear as it was 'working' him over. After that encounter he grew a beard to cover the facial injuries he sustained. One of the lakes in the Bowron Lake Chain was named after him. Years later in roughly the same 'neck of the woods', Frank Cushman had a somewhat similar experience. I've had a couple of 'encounters' and had the time to shoot but haven't had to do so, yet. For me, this is where the old adage comes into play, 'tis better to 'have & not need' than to 'need & not have'. Thats my preference anyway.

road warrior

12-30-2006, 02:12 PM

defender way faster and easy to shoot.You can empty all 8 shots in the same time as 2.When an 800 lb bear's charging you might not be in the right frame of mind to take one well placed shot.Buck shot at close range is more forgiving and it will blow a hole the size of your fist through a fast movin grizz.

Franko Manini

12-30-2006, 02:28 PM

For defense only, I would look at the defender, or Remington 870 option. Short barrel and no plug.

If you're hunting, then look at the 45-70 Marlin Guide Gun.

A good comprimise for both hunting and protection would be the Marlin 1894 in .44 Rem Mag. Fast, light, and handy. not to mention, 10 shots of .44 mag is a lot of firepower too!

kootenayelkslayer

12-30-2006, 02:57 PM

Although it's a little dated, the following downloadable report (in pdf. file format that requires Adobe Acrobat) has some extremely interesting information on short range rifle/bullet performance that might be a surprise to some:
Safety in bear country: protective measures and bullet performance at short range. Author: Meehan, W.R.; Thilenius, J.F.
http://www.treesearch.fs.fed.us/pubs/5573

Bushman

Thanks for posting that. That's pretty interesting, but I think I'm still leaning towards the 45-70.

Will

12-30-2006, 03:14 PM

Buck shot at close range is more forgiving and it will blow a hole the size of your fist through a fast movin grizz.
Only if the Barrel is 14"s away from said bear........
In that Case you may as well have Slugs, save the Shot for Birds ;)

elkguide

12-30-2006, 03:29 PM

get yourself a restricted licence and a permit to carry and buy a 454 casull!!! ( a pistol) It stops em in their tracks no matter how mad they are.

The 'Hummer'

12-30-2006, 06:05 PM

get yourself a restricted licence and a permit to carry and buy a 454 casull!!! ( a pistol) It stops em in their tracks no matter how mad they are.

I only wish. Given the opportunity, my choice would be my .500 S&W, and most likely with Hornady 350gr HP's, loaded to the hilt.

Will

12-30-2006, 06:09 PM

...my choice would be my .500 S&W, and most likely with Hornady 350gr HP's, loaded to the hilt.
Might just as well pack a Rifle......they are lighter to carry :lol:

The 500 Smith is one BIG Revolver:twisted:

The 'Hummer'

12-30-2006, 06:18 PM

Might just as well pack a Rifle......they are lighter to carry :lol:

The 500 Smith is one BIG Revolver

Just about, 72 oz's. But look at the fun you'd be missing.;) I had to get rid of the Hogue grips as with the bigger bullets and loaded hot, it still had the ability to inflict pain, at both ends.:mrgreen: A set of custom grips has made it bearable.:smile:

Mulies

12-30-2006, 06:56 PM

Hey kootenayelkslayer what ever you decide to use there are a few things you need to think about. A friend of mine works for DFO and walked a lot of creeks in the Rupert area doing fish counts. They took a bear course and where told that any bear they bumped into, if it was inside of 25yds. you can't wait to see what its going to do. You shoot and you pump tham in there as fast as possible. The last thing the instructor said was ( they work in pairs with a shotgun one counting and the other one watching for bear) when they went back to there boats to throw away anything but federal . Its the only brand that he hasn't had a jam-up with and one jam and your dead!!

Schmaus

12-30-2006, 07:21 PM

My god you boys/girls make it sound like every bear you see is going to attack you and weigh 800 pounds. Come on now

Seabass

12-30-2006, 10:22 PM

Most any centerfire is better than nothing but I'd have to go with the 45/70. Lots of good loads that will put the smack down on a fiesty critter. I've used the 350gr Hornady to put down a few bears with good results. Santa dropped off some 420gr and 550gr Hard Cast Crater bullets to feed my Marlin guide gun. I'll send a couple into a sping bear and let you know how it goes. The 420's will sail around 1800fps and 1500fps for the 550's.

Cheers

Seabass

browningboy

12-30-2006, 10:24 PM

elkguide

12-30-2006, 10:57 PM

Its been a while since I've taken the course, what do you require to get a permit to carry, permit to convey isn't a problem but to carry, must have to be for work otherwise there would be much more dirty harrys!8) Well I know that for me as a guide I can apply if I have a large number of predators in the area and the outfitter writes a letter of reference and I complete another competancy test. Then as long as I am Guiding I can pack a pistol for protection instead of a rifle. If your employment requires that you be in the bush I believe you can obtain this licence.

elkster

12-31-2006, 05:45 AM

My god you boys/girls make it sound like every bear you see is going to attack you and weigh 800 pounds. Come on now

It doesn't take every bear you see, JUST one!!:lol: :lol:

Mattimoose

05-05-2007, 04:19 PM

375 H&H . the recoil is mild (more push then punch) and it will also do for longer shots too

That new .375 Ruger has my vote.

Mattimoose

05-05-2007, 04:22 PM

I only wish. Given the opportunity, my choice would be my .500 S&W, and most likely with Hornady 350gr HP's, loaded to the hilt.

Try skinning after pounding the crap-out of your wrists! When that first cam-eout, a coupla friends of mine came back from the range with wicked bruises!

moose hunter

05-05-2007, 04:22 PM

All i can say is a 12 gauge or a 10 gauge will do it, no need for a rifle, probably a rem 870 or a mosssberg 500 will do you just fine.

Mattimoose

05-05-2007, 05:22 PM

Just wanted to see what your opinions are for the best calibre for a bear gun at close quarters. 45-70? .350? Defender shotgun? Or any other favourites you guys and gals know of?
I'm personally leaning towards the .350, but most of the guides I work with use the 45-70. Let me know what you think.

Get a .338, easier to get ammo than .45-70 or .350 and far more versatile. I have one-of-3, known .338 Browning BLR's and mine is the first I've known-of because I am the first guy I know-of in Ontario to do-it. I had mine re-bored and re-rifled from it's 7mm Zygote back in 1998 and never looked back. Nothing is quicker or more reliable than a gun with a DBM and a hammer except for maybe the M1 Garand that whacko U.S company is producing in .338WM! That would be the definitive life-saver right there, ask any GI. Myself, now that they have legitimized the .338-06 or .35 whelen, would probably have an M1 bored-out to .35 whelen and put-it in a laminated stock ;as it is one of the few hi-cap centrefires exempted in C-68! That and the Lee-Enfield.

Just watch-out, though, because once you've shot-up the first few waves of bears-they'll know that "ching" noise means you're empty; and you better be quick, because they might be in with a gang of Sasquatch advisers who just may have opposable thumbs. Apparently your government thinks they're out there; and if they are anything like our bleeding-heart, Algonquin Park Air Cav., Alpha-male Wolf-sterilizing, Bulldozer chaining-to- Ontario Politicians; You're in for-it. Chances-are they have been using your license and stumpage fees to night-drop flak vests and helmets to the VQ(Viet-Quatch? Or are they Montagnard?) already.

If you happen to find any Neanderthal, Pictograph-style, leaflets de-noting how far to lead the average hunter in silhouette-seated on a quad, on foot and in a truck, it's already too-late. They are ready, and with all the dead-standing beetle timber, Ottawa'd never let you Nape them and carpet-bombing something nobody's seen is far fetched even for them.

Eight 250-grain Noslers as fast as you could pull the trigger would discourage a squad of bears unless they had opposable thumbs! The gas-operation and sheer weight of the mechanical parts drives recoil down a bit too. If weight is a concern, buy a Norinco M-14 that is also legal to own in Canada as it was never FA capable. then you get a shot-out M-14, BM59or M1A barrel and have it rebored and chambered for .338 Federal! Put-it into an aftermarket M-14 folder or maybe the T-65 stock and you'll have the fastest, safest and most reliable Canada-legal DBM meat-grinder in the Rocky Mountains.

Mattimoose

05-05-2007, 05:28 PM

All i can say is a 12 gauge or a 10 gauge will do it, no need for a rifle, probably a rem 870 or a mosssberg 500 will do you just fine.

Yeah, it's too bad the Ithaca Mag-10 Roadblocker never made-it past prototype development stage. That and the Tri-barrel AYA was working-on.

Mattimoose

05-05-2007, 05:58 PM

All i can say is a 12 gauge or a 10 gauge will do it, no need for a rifle, probably a rem 870 or a mosssberg 500 will do you just fine.

Ixnay on the Ossberg-may. I would trust my life to the 870 or a model 12,BPS or an auto 5 and maybe an Ithaca 37 with high brass but I have fixed enough Mossberg "bic-lighters" to know that they are prime candidates for bears__t! Hell, if every tree-hugging hippy backpacker carried a Mossberg 500 or a Winchester Ranger shotgun, there would be more plastic and white-metal in bear droppings than Blueberries! Plastic and aluminum have no place in gun mechanisms..... period.

Conan had-it right! The riddle of steel. Gospel.

The 'Hummer'

05-05-2007, 05:59 PM

Try skinning after pounding the crap-out of your wrists! When that first cam-eout, a coupla friends of mine came back from the range with wicked bruises!
I've got it well under control. You're right, the recoil is 'substantial'!! I've made mention of it before, but the .500 S&W has the ability to inflict pain, at 'both' ends. I've made the 'pain' a little more bearable using a set of modified custom grips.

Upearly

05-05-2007, 06:01 PM

Mattimoose

05-05-2007, 08:20 PM

The extensive Bear Protection study produced by the State of Alaska several years ago (as referred to by Sitkaspruce in post #7) is a great article to read regarding general safety measures while in bear country. Many rifles, various bullet weights, handguns and shotguns are tested and rated .....a good read. Unfortunately newer bullets aren't included. The website is: www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152 (http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152)

Yeah, good article, and I like the beginning references to Hatcher. Hatcher's notebook is as relevant today as ever even though the info is dated, but Julian Hatcher was head of the ordnance dept. at Springfield armory for every major advancement from the formativre years of the modern firearms era.

Mattimoose

05-05-2007, 08:40 PM

i wish i had one of them double barrel rifles. Those things are so bad-ass. Sure they only do 2" at 50 yards but hey, when you've got one in .375H&H it'll take care of them bears at close range no probs.

Especially when you send the second bullet through their chest 0.01 seconds after the first :D

Almost all dangerous game in Africa is preffered hunted by double rifle for a reason. India too.I love my muzzle-loading,Pedersoli Kodiak double rifle in .50 cal. and if I had one in .45-70, I would be pretty confident anywhere. I wish I had a Holland and Holland double rifle in .577 Nitro Express for big bears,but that's just because I'm a fan of Michael Gross in the first "Tremors" movie with the 8-bore paradox double rifle.

Will

05-05-2007, 09:33 PM

Just when I was beginning to think it was safe to go back in the woods........:-(

BAMO ! up comes the infamous Bear Defense thread :lol: :lol:

7 mag

05-05-2007, 10:21 PM

I bought a Marlin lever action 444 when i was guiding in the Flathead, I still carry it in the bush today. It shoots easy, makes a big hole & i have'nt been eaten by a Bruin yet ether!

kootenayelkslayer

05-05-2007, 10:51 PM

I just bought a Marlin 45-70 guide gun in stainless steel. I'm looking forward to trying it out while bear guiding this spring. It is definetly one of the funnest guns I've ever shot.

300 wsm

05-05-2007, 10:53 PM

close protection 500smith and wess

Mattimoose

05-05-2007, 11:53 PM

close protection 500smith and wess

.500 S&W energy matches or exceeds .45-70 factory ammo!

300 wsm

05-06-2007, 12:14 AM

but its a bad ass revolver

300 wsm

05-06-2007, 12:15 AM

it shoots tha 45-70 to tha dirt

7mmag

05-06-2007, 12:30 AM

I’ve always been able to turn bears around with none lethal means (ie: spray or bangers) Even the barren land gizz and polar bears I’ve ran into witch are both very aggressive bears. Having said that, the one time I sprayed a black bear I think I got more spray in my face then his. My votes for a defender full of slugs if I’m in open country my first round is a “banger”

Pistols are great for portability and it can’t be that hard to hit a bear at ten feet, but I can’t be bothered to jump through the hoops it takes to get a carry permit.

300 wsm

05-06-2007, 12:34 AM

yep i agrre my girls momm lives in churchill been their twice for bear season they run bluesky expeditions dog sled rides b and b and also beluga whale swims seen the polar bears quiver and run to bear bangers look it up good place blue sky mush.com

Mr. Dean

05-06-2007, 01:28 AM

Here's my take.

For defense/back-up I like the short shotty idea. You can unload one of them in NO time. Hunting is a different matter.

Hand guns. I think we all know that there is a definate difference between a 'perceived' threat (Bear charging you down) and an actual threat (Bear on top of you).

All I'll say is that if you have the will to fight, you'll fight with what ever tools are handy IMO. The option shouldn't be illegal.

hunter1947

05-06-2007, 04:59 AM

375 HH Mag for this cowboy :lol: hunter47.

Bushman

05-06-2007, 07:52 AM

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/Im000886.jpg

I still have my Whitworth Mark X Alaskan .375 H & H Mag, but I needed a couple of brand new bear stoppers for a job in the wilds of BC (and for the collection, but don't tell my wife) so I went out a got a new Marlin 1895 GS in .45-70 Government and a Mossberg 500A 12 guage 2 3/4-3 in. Persuader.

Can't wait to give 'em a try.

Bushman

Mattimoose

05-06-2007, 04:03 PM

Nice kit, bushman, the Mossberg's OK but promise me you'll sell-it at the first sign of trouble, as it is strictly a disposable firearm. Though the safety is in a good place, the quality is poor and prone to malfunction. Too bad, because it is so light. Ihad a customer who wanted me to extend his mossberg mag,and I did so by threading a Cadmium-plated kitchen-tent pole from the late 60's with mossberg's-square magazine thread and doubling-up on the spring with a nylon bushing between them. The original Island that takes the mag-nut was replaced with a Remingtonesque ring and a new barrel nut and boss taken from a 500 that had been in a housefire and installed at the end-of the 28 inch barrel. Be sure to utilise one with dual operating rods. After the conversion was complete the mag equalled 10 down and one-up the spout.

At that juncture in time, Bill c68 hadn't come-in yet and you could still-own a bullpup stock. This made an 11-shot, well- balanced bear blaster with authority that clocked-in at just-over 40" inches in OAL! The good old days! I miss the waves of heat off of her when we first tried-it out and the pinging noise the hot steel made after 5 boxes of rapid-fire trial by fire with no interruptions.

Bushman

05-06-2007, 05:00 PM

I'm listening to what you say about the Mossberg, Mattimoose.
I picked up that particular Mossberg below dealer cost so it won't hurt so much if I have to throw it on the scrap metal pile. I doubt it'll see too much action as I'll most probably be packin' the Marlin .45-70.
My employer just called and said I may soon have to take care of a few cougars and one very large black bear that have been causing some problems.
Looks like I may be busy in the near future.

Bushman

Mr. Dean

05-06-2007, 08:15 PM

Whats the 500 prone to for failure?

I have one and agree that if 'feels' disposable.

Bushman

05-06-2007, 10:46 PM

I did a little searching and if any of the below is true, it certainly sounds like the U.S. Military put the Mossberg 500 shotguns through some tough tests:

"The Mossberg 500 Persuader shotgun is a pump action shotgun that you can count on for any and every security need. They have the credentials and track record to prove it.

In their commercial form, the Persuaders are virtual duplicates of the proven Mossberg military 500 and 590 models....the only pump action shotguns ever to pass all stringent U.S. Military MilSpec-3443 standards. The heart of this spec is a brutal 3,000 round endurance test using buckshot loads. Following the endurance test, randomly selected guns are then frozen, baked, and dropped at various altitudes to ensure the utmost in functionality, safety and endurance. If that isn't enough, parts interchangeability is also mandated, requiring full interchangeability between integral components. No wonder it remains the reliable choice of U.S. Armed Forces and police departments throughout the world.

* Mossberg Cruiser / Persuader
* 20" Cylinder-Bore
* Choked Barrel
* Pistol Grip
* Shoots both 2-3/4 & 3" Shells
* Extended Magazine, 7+1
* Bead Sights
* OAL 29 1/2", 7 lbs
* Rubber Recoil Pad
* Parkerized Finish
* Heat Shield
* Q.D. swivel posts
* Drilled and tapped for accessories"

Bushman

Gateholio

05-06-2007, 10:57 PM

I'v e had a Mossberg "Marverick" shotgun for years. It's their cheap o model.

I've shot thousands and thousands of rounds through it.

Broke the slide arm (single arm- the use 2 nowadays) after about 3000 rounds.

No worries on the Mossberg.:lol:

Mattimoose

05-06-2007, 11:57 PM

The safety is a powdered metallurgy part that often becomes loose and breaks or the spring-ball detent screws-up and gets hard to push-off. I have a had to fix a few of them and I still like the Mossberg 500 or maverick with 2 operating rods better than the Winchester. The Winchester is a piece of crap and neither of them holds a candle to an 870. Even the 870 is cheapened a bit but at least it has a metal trigger group and a steel reciever. The Browning is probably the most trouble-free shotgun out there and can be fired ambidextrously with bottom-eject and leaves little opportunity for foreign matter to enter the action. I have fixed one BPS for every 2-870s to 5 Mossberg 500's, to 15 Winchesters.

Boy when they called the Winchester the 1200, John Moses Browning started spinning in his grave and hasn't stopped since! People think they are seing UFOs in Utah, but if there are any lights in the sky around Ogden, you can bet there is a disturbance in the force. Every time you buy a BPS a gunsmith gets his wings.

Mattimoose

05-07-2007, 12:20 AM

Routine field-stripping of Mossberg or Winchester is the surest way to have problems. The plastic parts don't stand-up to the ins-and outs. Just blast an aerosol cleaner in and blast-out with compressed air. At the first sign of trouble, give-it too someone you don't like too much so they can't ask for their money back and buy a Remington or Browning. Stay away from Browning's A500 too as it's needlessly complicated and also prone to malfunction.

No-one has ever really improved on John M's Model 12 and Auto 5. Just like there hasn't been an improvement in Bolt-actions since the Mauser 98. The BPS is just an Ithaca model 37 that doesn't jam with low brass. I think it was one of Pedersen's designs but I'm not sure. When I get to hell I'll find-out for you.

With some of the things I've done, i'll probably be middle management anyways, and me and John M. and Sam C and John Cantius G will take turns curling on a frozen lake of sulfur with the heads of the people who started adding plastic and aluminum to firearms. Oh yeah, everyone will get a chance to poke that-one guy in the eye with a sharp stick four-or five thousand times a day. You know, the guy who decided it was better to put the fuel-pump in the gas tank rather than the side of the block where it belongs!

I can't wait to find-out if Aimo Lahti is there; because his best inventions just ground-up godless Soviets! Yeah , I'm pretty sure Lahti and Hayha are in Valhalla or heaven (What-ever!) But Mannerheim is probably rolling big fatties from The turds of Cerebus itself for Churchill and Stalin to smoke while they torment Hitler with Pal air-rifle firing squads and barbwire fencing where his other Testicle grows back everyday.

Spitzer

05-07-2007, 08:05 AM

The best Mossberg is the 590 A1 special purpose and is the one used by the U.S. military. It has improved features from the regular 500 like a metal safety, metal trigger guard, and thicker barrel.

Mattimoose

05-07-2007, 06:23 PM

The best Mossberg is the 590 A1 special purpose and is the one used by the U.S. military. It has improved features from the regular 500 like a metal safety, metal trigger guard, and thicker barrel.

Cool, I have yet to have a 590 apart, so they must be working.

Browning Auto-5's and Model 12's were used extensively in both world wears to teach anti-aircraft and aircraft gunners how to establish "Lead" in the field. Some Auto 5's and model 12's went through 150-200,000 rounds without any major mechanical breakage. Steel parts and or recoil operation make the best semi, and by virtue of being able to hold the trigger-down while pumping/firing simultaneously make the model 12 almost automatic anyways. This is why the Model 12 and the Ithaca 37 are still favourites of many state highway patrols, and the auto 5 is still the queen of the roadblock.

Spitzer

05-07-2007, 07:50 PM

Cool, I have yet to have a 590 apart, so they must be working.

Browning Auto-5's and Model 12's were used extensively in both world wears to teach anti-aircraft and aircraft gunners how to establish "Lead" in the field. Some Auto 5's and model 12's went through 150-200,000 rounds without any major mechanical breakage. Steel parts and or recoil operation make the best semi, and by virtue of being able to hold the trigger-down while pumping/firing simultaneously make the model 12 almost automatic anyways. This is why the Model 12 and the Ithaca 37 are still favourites of many state highway patrols, and the auto 5 is still the queen of the roadblock.

Browning just put out a new high capacity BPS synthetic, the BPS is my favourite shotgun being LH'd.

cmfic1

05-09-2007, 12:44 AM

I have Guided Black Bear in Alberta for 11 years. 9 of them I carried a Win. Defender. Usually I loaded it so the 1st 2 out of the pipe were Slugs followed by 3, 00 Buck. I have had many close encounters with Bears, whether it was approaching them on the Baits, or following poorly hit ones.

One time when approaching a bait, there was a little 3 yr. old, that pushed his limit. After bluffing, and eventually charging to within 15' or so a few times, I had just about as much as I could take. He didnt relent and the fact that he showed no fear, and didnt mind getting in to my "Comfort zone". The Bear made one final charge to about the 15' mark & I hammered him in the the Face/Forehead with a 3" 00 Buck. I think the 1st thing that hit the ground was his chin! (I tagged it)

People need to remember, slugs are slugs, & still need to be shot accurately to make a killing shot. In order for Buck shot to be lethal, the Animal has to be close.

The last 2 years I guided I carried a Marlin "Guide gun" in .450 Marlin. Its what I would use to this day, and would recommend it or a 45/70 over a 12 ga.

The biggest thing is to be comfortable with whatever you may have in your hands. I took shooting the Marlin (as well as the rest of my Rifles) serious, shot it a whole pile (in rapid succession, from many different positions), and I felt 100% confident in being able to kill whatever happened to take the crazy notion to charge me.

ALPINE

05-09-2007, 09:02 PM

45-70 has my vote. Shot a bear 30 yards last year and it dropped in its tracks.

coyotebc

05-10-2007, 09:45 PM

Just bought a winchester 94 timber off of Repo in 450 marlin. Can't wait to try it out. The action feels smooth.
I've got a marlin in 44 mag and it can be finicky about ammo, if you plan on using one make sure you try it out with the brand and weight of ammo you intend to use. There are a few brands of ammo that my marlin just will not feed reliably.
I've also had a mossberge 500 for about 16 or 17 years now, it was one of those combo packages that Lever Arms was selling around 1990/91. Shot thousands of rounds through it while duck/goose hunting, never have had a single problem with it.
The only thing I don't like is that the 18 1/2 inch barrel is a smooth bore cylinder bore and it only has a front bead on it.
The only thing that I don't like about a shotgun is if a bear was munching on your friend and YOU HAD TO SHOOT TO SAVE THEM then having a rifle with sights would make it a little safer then pointing and shooting with a shotgun exspecially with shot in it.

Mattimoose

05-11-2007, 03:59 AM

Browning just put out a new high capacity BPS synthetic, the BPS is my favourite shotgun being LH'd.

My best friend has had a BPS hunter in 3 1/2" for years, and I just sold another but in 10 Guage that had given yeoman service to my other friend. It's in the synthetic also. The only complaint I have ever had about the Magnum BPS's is that my high Finnish Cheekbones are pounded by the browning comb for some reason.

bctrapper

05-14-2007, 04:26 AM

The 'Hummer'

05-14-2007, 09:01 AM

If it is truely for defence, then a pistol is the logical answer. It can be drawn and fired with a single hand.

Barring that, a short barrelled shotgun, like the Rem. 870 Mag. Put SG or SSG in the chamber and slugs in the magazine. If you have ever been charged by a bear, you will not have much time. Your first shot will be a point and fire. No time to aim. That's why you need large pellets.

Rifles are what you want if you are hunting bear. Not much good in close quarters.
I've made mention of it previously but your initial comment reminded me of the episode. Years ago, Frank Kibbee, a Game Warden in the B.C. central interior was badly mauled by a Grizzly. Apparently while the Bear was 'munching' he emptied his Colt .45 SAA into it and averted his possible demise.

Gateholio

05-14-2007, 11:13 AM

Here you go....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/unopistoleros/P1020005.jpg

Elkhound

05-14-2007, 11:18 AM

Clarke you have posted that one twice now

any word on price? I couldn't even find it on Dlask's website

Gateholio

05-14-2007, 11:38 AM

I've heard reports of 650-$850..No clue on price.8-)

Call them up and ask, I am sure they have had about 10000000 calls on it.:lol:

Elkhound

05-14-2007, 11:46 AM

Thanks, I had sent them an email already....they probably have 1000000 of those too.:lol:

hunter1947

05-14-2007, 03:39 PM

http://www.remington.com/images/products/firearms/premierdealer/8707s2.jpg This is the one i am getting 12 gage. hunter47.

hunter1947

05-14-2007, 03:43 PM

Thanks blacktailstalker for sending me this link. http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif hunter47.

Elkhound

05-14-2007, 03:55 PM

how much Wayne and from who?

hunter1947

05-14-2007, 04:09 PM

how much Wayne and from who? Blacktailstalker said it was $720.00 without the tax and it is in a sporting good store in cortney ,i don't know the name of the store ,i forgot ,it's hard to remeber when all you have is elk on your mind.

hunter1947

05-14-2007, 04:13 PM

I want to get fasning rings with a flash light for the top barrel also.

Will

05-14-2007, 05:15 PM

Here you go....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/unopistoleros/P1020005.jpg
Looks like a Great way to split open your forehead.................:lol:

Gateholio

05-14-2007, 05:21 PM

Actually, I watched a guy fire one, 2 handed, like you would a long handgun, and it seemed fine.8-)

Attach that thingy to your hip in a drop holster, and you have 3+1 12 guage slugs at your disposal.8-)

Mattimoose

05-15-2007, 05:41 PM

Looks like a Great way to split open your forehead.................:lol:

Is this a US unit or can we have-it here. I can't see if it's over 26" OAL. I know the BBL length is factory and the P-Grip could be aftermarket. I usually see the 14"BBL'd Rem with a buttstock, or collapsing or folding. Stupid laws in this country, who knows.

Elkhound

05-15-2007, 05:45 PM

we can have it here......made in Richmond, and it's nonrestricted

Will

05-15-2007, 06:29 PM

Actually, I watched a guy fire one, 2 handed, like you would a long handgun, and it seemed fine.8-)
I had to say it...........Because of a Hero I seen at the range one day :|

He stepped up to the line with his pistol gripped shottie.....held it one handed like the terminator would........BAMO !!!
The 3" Mag Slug generated enough recoil it flipped straight up and rotated backwards and smacked him right on the top of the head..the bead left a nice dent ! :lol:

I guess nobody told him "blanks" don't have recoil.....real loads do :rolleyes:

Kirby

05-15-2007, 06:40 PM

I've seen guys split lips loose teeth as well as split their forehead. Always one idiot in camp wants to shoot it with one hand.

Kirby

I had to say it...........Because of a Hero I seen at the range one day :|

He stepped up to the line with his pistol gripped shottie.....held it one handed like the terminator would........BAMO !!!
The 3" Mag Slug generated enough recoil it flipped straight up and rotated backwards and smacked him right on the top of the head..the bead left a nice dent ! :lol:

I guess nobody told him "blanks" don't have recoil.....real loads do :rolleyes:

hunter1947

05-16-2007, 03:49 AM

Gateholio

05-16-2007, 07:54 AM

Mattimoose

05-16-2007, 06:32 PM

It's classified as UNRESTRICTED, same as someones thirty aught six,a nd it is for sale for $850 by Dlask Arms in Richmond...

PS I've shot pistol grip shotguns one handed as well, except I knew what woudl happen and dodged the barrel! :)

Actually, a shorter barrel will probably produce less upswing, which is why that 8.5" gun won't smack you if you are careful. :)

Gatehouse or anyone, have you ever seen the vid of the good-ole boy shooting the TC Encore in 700 Nitro? It's priceless. I'm at work right now and I have-it on file in outlook Express. Can someone PM me as I am a Nut-an-bolt Kinda guy and don't know how to post pics or send stuff to this site. Sincerely, computer Luddite*.

Luddite-Term denoting a group of Welsh textile workers who revolted after becoming unemployed by Eli Whitney's cotton Gin in the 19th. Century; at the beginning of the industrial revolution. The worker's of the village of Ludd, a town in Wales, got drunk and stormed the plant, smashing the machinery to tiny pieces with hammers, flails and crowbars. This is the original inspiration for the popular term "Rage against the machine."