More guide areas opening up?

[MichelD]

In 2007 the Fish and Wildlife Branch of the Ministry of the Environment will review the status of unallocated areas to determine the viability of these areas to guide outfitters and the implications of these areas to residents’ allocations.
The Ministry claims that “resident hunters’ interests in maintaining exclusive access to some areas of the province for hunting will be a key driver of this review.”
The Ministry is also developing a policy and procedure that lays out the conditions needed to initiate a review of existing regulations such as residents harvesting 60 percent of allowable harvest.
*
If you care about resident hunting rights you might want to stay informed about this.

[Nails]

MichelD who is driving this review? sounds very interesting,

[MichelD]

Who is pushing for it I can't say, but Nancy Wilkin, Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Stewardship Division seems to be the point person for the govt. on this.

[BCLongshot]

Let's start writing. Don't e-mail they don't pay any attention it has to be on paper !

[Elkaholic]

nancy wilins is the person pushing for this..... you wonder why? Well where does nancy stay when she visits the East Kootenays??? No where else but Anna Fontanas ranch..... why does this matter you say? Well she runs a territory. With this pushed through the guides will be able to have wall to wall territories with no "non guilde" areas as they are now. Again the resident hunter is getting the shaft. Also I was told that this is aready in, not trying to be pushed in but in fact already in. Any emails should be sent above Nancy to the minister as Nancy is able to sign off on things without the minister knowing.

[GoatGuy]

nancy wilins is the person pushing for this..... you wonder why? Well where does nancy stay when she visits the East Kootenays??? No where else but Anna Fontanas ranch..... why does this matter you say? Well she runs a territory. With this pushed through the guides will be able to have wall to wall territories with no "non guilde" areas as they are now. Again the resident hunter is getting the shaft. Also I was told that this is aready in, not trying to be pushed in but in fact already in. Any emails should be sent above Nancy to the minister as Nancy is able to sign off on things without the minister knowing.

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fisher-Dude]

nancy wilins is the person pushing for this..... you wonder why? Well where does nancy stay when she visits the East Kootenays??? No where else but Anna Fontanas ranch..... why does this matter you say? Well she runs a territory. With this pushed through the guides will be able to have wall to wall territories with no "non guilde" areas as they are now. Again the resident hunter is getting the shaft. Also I was told that this is aready in, not trying to be pushed in but in fact already in. Any emails should be sent above Nancy to the minister as Nancy is able to sign off on things without the minister knowing.

When Anna was the bio for the East Kootenays, she showed up beside our huntin' camp one day with a grizz from the Ft Steele garbage dump in a trap. Despite our protests of dumping a pissed off grizz beside our camp, she did so anyways. Thanks Anna. The area was Bobby Fontana's guiding territory. Bobby's outfit hunts grizz. I'm not alluding to anything. I'm just stating the facts as they occurred. Draw your own conclusions. :mad:

[kutenay]

E-mails to politicians, especially those of cabinet rank, are largely a waste of time, they know how little effort is required to do this and judge them accordingly. Written letters do have SOME impact, however, this is a "business" government and, as mentioned, the various bureaucrats may have special "friends" whom they may favour....

For example, how did Fontanas get that large camp/ranch up the Elk Valley, I used to live and work there for the Forest Service (1965-1967) and that was, IRRC, Crown Land. I could NEVER get a piece of land in the Kootenays like that and my family has lived in Nelson, since 1893 and BC since 1870....BUT, I am not SOME people, either.......

What we really need is demonstrations, blockades and a campaign against G/Os being able to "own" buildings in Provincial Parks, on Crown land and maybe even ban G/Os being able to have specific, exclusive territories at all. Don't mistake, these now largely foreign-owned businesses want to and WILL control OUR hunting, if we sit back and allow it.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

When Anna was the bio for the East Kootenays, she showed up beside our huntin' camp one day with a grizz from the Ft Steele garbage dump in a trap. Despite our protests of dumping a pissed off grizz beside our camp, she did so anyways. Thanks Anna. The area was Bobby Fontana's guiding territory. Bobby's outfit hunts grizz. I'm not alluding to anything. I'm just stating the facts as they occurred. Draw your own conclusions. :mad:

You're not alone in your opinion of her F/D. There'a big court battle over the "family" business. Apparently, just because you're Bobby's offspring doesn't mean that you're entitled to anything:roll: . Cinderella's stepmother has nothing on her....................................

SSS

[brno375]

When Anna was the bio for the East Kootenays, she showed up beside our huntin' camp one day with a grizz from the Ft Steele garbage dump in a trap. Despite our protests of dumping a pissed off grizz beside our camp, she did so anyways. Thanks Anna. The area was Bobby Fontana's guiding territory. Bobby's outfit hunts grizz. I'm not alluding to anything. I'm just stating the facts as they occurred. Draw your own conclusions. :mad:

How convieeeeeeeeeeenent.

[CNE]

I dont understand how you think you are getting shafted here. Can you please explain to me your reasoning for this.

[Elkaholic]

I dont understand how you think you are getting shafted here. Can you please explain to me your reasoning for this.

We are getting shafted because now the G/O can apply to have edge to edge territorys. Thus enabling them to hunt the hell out of every inch of land and having no "free" zones where only the resident may hunt. That my friend is how we are getting the shaft.

[BCLongshot]

You know boys we have to keep this going ! I'm afraid we'll forget.

It rips my shorts real bad that pioneers and the working man get it up the &$% every time !!!

While we're out working our rearends off these pussy arsses are thinking of ways to control everything.

[curt]

so could someone explain something to me as i am not super knowledgable about this kinda thing are you saying that an area givin to a guide even if there is public access is off limits to hunting for the common folk then????DO THEY RESERVE ALL RIGHTS TO THAT AREA:confused:

[bigwhiteys]

so could someone explain something to me as i am not super knowledgable about this kinda thing are you saying that an area givin to a guide even if there is public access is off limits to hunting for the common folk then????DO THEY RESERVE ALL RIGHTS TO THAT AREA

NO - Some G/O's might like to think this but the answer is NO they cannot prevent you from access or hunting. It's crown land that they are in fact leasing for the purpose of operating a G/O territory.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

[Elkaholic]

so could someone explain something to me as i am not super knowledgable about this kinda thing are you saying that an area givin to a guide even if there is public access is off limits to hunting for the common folk then????DO THEY RESERVE ALL RIGHTS TO THAT AREA:confused:

Its just the the areas that they are now going to be able to expand into were put there by the gov. to protect the area for resident hunters only to hunt, no commercial pressure, and now with this in place they can request to expand their areas into these area traditionally reserved for resident hunters only.

[youngfellla]

We are getting shafted because now the G/O can apply to have edge to edge territorys. Thus enabling them to hunt the hell out of every inch of land and having no "free" zones where only the resident may hunt. That my friend is how we are getting the shaft.

I don't see it as the resident hunter getting the shaft. We can hunt on any piece crown land in the province, even if it is a guide territory. Like Carl said, the outfitter does not own the land, and can't stop us from using it.



Don't mistake, these now largely foreign-owned businesses want to and WILL control OUR hunting, if we sit back and allow it.


Agreed. It's pretty sad when you see how many Guide Territories in B.C. are foreign owned. And even of the territories that are owned (on paper) by local BC boys, many of those have financial backing from a foreign investor. I know for a fact of a rich American fellow (who happens to be a hunter) who has his fingers in 3 different guide territories in BC, and as such can pick and choose the dates and species he wants to hunt in BC.

In the 1980's my uncle and two of his friends tired to buy a territory that was up for sale. Between the three of them they could have came up with the 1.2 million $ to buy it, but basically ran into a wall. In short, the government 'wouldn't let' them buy it, and it was sold to a group of German investors.

[Elkaholic]

I don't see it as the resident hunter getting the shaft. We can hunt on any piece crown land in the province, even if it is a guide territory. Like Carl said, the outfitter does not own the land, and can't stop us from using it.



Agreed. It's pretty sad when you see how many Guide Territories in B.C. are foreign owned. And even of the territories that are owned (on paper) by local BC boys, many of those have financial backing from a foreign investor. I know for a fact of a rich American fellow (who happens to be a hunter) who has his fingers in 3 different guide territories in BC, and as such can pick and choose the dates and species he wants to hunt in BC.

In the 1980's my uncle and two of his friends tired to buy a territory that was up for sale. Between the three of them they could have came up with the 1.2 million $ to buy it, but basically ran into a wall. In short, the government 'wouldn't let' them buy it, and it was sold to a group of German investors.

I am by no way saying they will stop us from hunting there. They have other ways to do that ie getting it closed(road closure). I am saying they will be able to hunt every inch of crown lands, now not all G/O manage their territory for longevity, most just hunt the hell out of an area and decimate the populations. I just dont see why they should need to expand their area to sell their hunts, they are given an area, and they should manage this area correctly IMHO.

[MichelD]

Don't mean to hijack my own thread, but here's an example;

I went hunting by my bicycle in Region 8 in October in a motor vehicle closed area.

I rode 10 km up the road and saw nobody else except my partner Turbo Al, whom I could barely keep up with.

The next day I rode up again in the snow without Al who had to leave, and 10 km up the road I encountered a bunch of horses and mules at a horse corral, tire tracks and another km along, a camper, a pickup with a horse trailer, a stock truck and about 7 guys loading horses into the trucks and trailers.

I thought this was a MV closed area. But not for them apparently.

Being somewhat outnumbered, I didn't challenge them, but it appeared to me that it was the local guide and his buddies. Not a dude in sight.

They were friendly enough and even complimentary to me that Ihad the guts to cycle. "I tell other guys they should do it," one guy said.

But WTF?

I like MV closed areas, but what makes them more privileged citizens than us?

Why don't they all have to walk, cycle or come in on horseback like the rest of us?

Or to dGeorge Orwell: are some pigs more equal than others ?

[Fisher-Dude]

Don't mean to hijack my own thread, but here's an example;

I went hunting by my bicycle in Region 8 in October in a motor vehicle closed area.

I rode 10 km up the road and saw nobody else except my partner Turbo Al, whom I could barely keep up with.

The next day I rode up again in the snow without Al who had to leave, and 10 km up the road I encountered a bunch of horses and mules at a horse corral, tire tracks and another km along, a camper, a pickup with a horse trailer, a stock truck and about 7 guys loading horses into the trucks and trailers.

I thought this was a MV closed area. But not for them apparently.

Being somewhat outnumbered, I didn't challenge them, but it appeared to me that it was the local guide and his buddies. Not a dude in sight.

They were friendly enough and even complimentary to me that Ihad the guts to cycle. "I tell other guys they should do it," one guy said.

But WTF?

I like MV closed areas, but what makes them more privileged citizens than us?

Why don't they all have to walk, cycle or come in on horseback like the rest of us?

Or to bowlerize George Orwell: are some pigs more equal than others ?

Report ALL Poachers and Polluters (that includes Guide Outfitters!):

1-877-952-7277

[youngfellla]

not all G/O manage their territory for longevity, most just hunt the hell out of an area and decimate the populations.

Have to disagree with you on that. Any outfitter with an ounce of intelligence will manage an area as best they can. They pay big $$$ to operate a territory, and rely on strong game populations as well as trophy quality animals in order to keep their business going. They can't simply go in an destroy the population of game in a few seasons and expect to keep clients coming back. They are all given a quota for each species and have to stick to it, it's not one big free-for-all where they shoot anything that moves.

I ask you how many Outfitters do you know personally? Or have you ever worked for an Outfitter? Your view would change if you actually knew the facts.

[bigwhiteys]

Good One Youngfella.

They are limited via a quota so they can't "hunt the hell" out of anything. And a G/O's quota can be reduced for infractions or taking young animals (7 year old stone rams for example as some outfitters recently experienced)

We are a greedy bunch us hunters and nearly impossible to please.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Only certain animals are on quota. Higher profile species like sheep and grizzlies are on quota but deer, elk(in some areas) and definitely blackies are not on quota. I know some G/Os that pound the crap out of balckies and every hunter goes gome with 2 bears regardless of size. I know there are guys on this site that have first hand knowledge of this. An example of market hunting at it's finest!


SSS

[Elkaholic]

Have to disagree with you on that. Any outfitter with an ounce of intelligence will manage an area as best they can. They pay big $$$ to operate a territory, and rely on strong game populations as well as trophy quality animals in order to keep their business going. They can't simply go in an destroy the population of game in a few seasons and expect to keep clients coming back. They are all given a quota for each species and have to stick to it, it's not one big free-for-all where they shoot anything that moves.

I ask you how many Outfitters do you know personally? Or have you ever worked for an Outfitter? Your view would change if you actually knew the facts.

Contrary to what you may think, my wife whole family is in the G/O industry, and I have many talks with her dad. His brother has 2 territorys and let me tell you he hunts the hell outta every species not restricted by quotas, and my father in-law has said he will collapse soon because of not being able to produce animals. And im talking all 5 brothers in this family are G/O so I do know a thing or too.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Y/F-Yes, the ones with intelligence and the ones that are in it for the long haul manage their area to produce quality game. That said, some buy an outfit, hunt the hell out of it and sell it. Happens.

SSS

[bigwhiteys]

My grandparents took quality trophies out of their area for decades. I've got the some of the klineburgers on my wall. My family outfitted because they enjoyed the lifestyle they certainly didn't get rich from it.

Happy Hunting!
Carl

[alremkin]

I hunted elk in the Kootenays until they changed to the 6 point rule. I'd found a good place, a 5 mile hike to the end of a closed road. I found out from a friend who still hunts the area that Fontana built a cabin at the end of the road sort of like saying, " This is my place", to the resident hunter.

Another spot the outfitters' son and friends exchanged the key to a locked gate so they could drive their trucks 5 miles and an 1,800' climb to a good hunting area. I used to backpack into that area.

These are examples of what I personally know. I'm certain it could be multiplied by 1,000 to get an idea of what happens province wide:mad:

[kutenay]

Fontana was a real piece of work, he was not there during my time working in the Fernie Ranger District, but, I have known guys who dealt with him and their opinions were not very positive. There are GOOD G-Os and always have been, there are azzholes and always have been and there are foreigners which is NOT acceptable, the convicted violator of the B.C. Wildlife Act, Brian Martin, comes to mind.

Families like Carl's are the kind of people who SHOULD operate G-O concessions and there are others, BUT, we do not get active enough in protecting OUR resource, so, these high-dollar operators get to do as they damm well please. Change CAN happen, it just requires steady, never-ending pressure on government and a continual stream of letters plus demonstrations, blockades and openly challenging ANY foreign G-Os operating in BC WILL effect the changes we need.

[tmarschall]

Contrary to what you may think, my wife whole family is in the G/O industry, and I have many talks with her dad. His brother has 2 territorys and let me tell you he hunts the hell outta every species not restricted by quotas, and my father in-law has said he will collapse soon because of not being able to produce animals. And im talking all 5 brothers in this family are G/O so I do know a thing or too.

This is interesting... I wonder how many other guides have similar problems? Is this why they need new territories? The old ones have been shot out?

[boxhitch]

So....does someone have a map, showing G/O territories, which would show off the lands that are not under license now ?? That would be a good point to start from, if you launch a protest. I have a map of the n. half of BC but there is no unlicensed lands on these. The one area I know of, near groundbirch, will not become licensed to a g/O, according to a statement by the Reg. Manager there.