Definition of "advertising"

[reach]

Yesterday several posts on wool socks & underwear at Costco were deleted. The stated reason was "advertising".

None of the posters involved had any financial interest whatsoever except as consumers. If we can't talk about the full range of products out there, how much they cost and where to get them, what is the point of the Hunting Gear forum?

Could you please update the Forum Guidelines with a more specific definition of "advertising" so we know what we're allowed to post without it being deleted?

This whole thing has left a very bad taste in my mouth :( Basically I can't trust anything I read about hunting gear here now, knowing that this forum is so heavily censored.

[shottyshooter]

^ X2

A big reason that I come here is to get advice and opinions on things like gear. Wouldn't it make sense to say that expressing your opinion on gear from xxxx that cost xxxx was a good deal and you recommend the product is an OK thing to do?

Advertising - in my thinking - is something done to aquire business. It is generally done by someone with a vested interest in boosting sales and is completely self-serving.

Was the problem the stores name being posted? can we discuss product names but not store names? Doesn't really make sense because if someone says "Kirkland" I know what store to go to and if someone says some other brand that I don't know then my first question is where can I see them?

I'm all for boosting the business to the sites sponsors - they can send me a weekly pm to advertise sales or new products if they want. Can't we find a way to share opinions freely and boost the sponsors too?

[Gunner]

I agree,a sticky on "advertising" would be beneficial.I had two of my posts deleted yesterday,posts that were asking questions about a product and its availability.I have been told they were considered "advertising",and against the rules. I apologise,such was not my intent.The fact that I was unaware that my posts were condidered "advertising",could be allieviated by putting up a sticky defining the rules.If we are limited on the items we can discuss,or if we don't post because we don't want to step on someone's toes then what then is the point of having a hunting gear section? Gunner

[Iltasyuko]

Being governed is awesome.

[Gateholio]

When someone posts "Costco/Walmart/WSS/CT etc has a sale on xyz product for $xxx .xxx " then it's advertising for those companies, whether you are benefitting from it financially or not.

Hope that is simple and clear.

[frenchbar]

would it be ok to say A AND W have 2 mama burgers on for 3 bucks or is that taboo as well ...lol

[coach]

Being governed is awesome.

Having a hunting website where we can all share our stories, pictures and ideas is awesome too. A few rules and guidelines that keep current sponsors happy seem pretty reasonable to me. I realize Gunner's question seemed innocent enough yesterday and I even responded on his thread. The fact is, site sponsors sell merino wool base layers as well. Directing business away from those sponsors will take away their desire to support the site. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.

[Gateholio]

would it be ok to say A AND W have 2 mama burgers on for 3 bucks or is that taboo as well ...lol

Go for it. McDonalds and Wendys aren't site sponsors. ;)

[frenchbar]

Go for it. McDonalds and Wendys aren't site sponsors. ;)
thats what i thought hahaha

[Crazy_Farmer]

All I got to say is gunners got it right.

Seen another forum last week almost implode from being over governed for the same exact issue. Whats better lots of members creating lots of traffic and a sponsors banner is viewed more at the top. Or being alienated and membership goes down or even another forum is created which happened in the other case. that forum is 3X the size of this one for duck hunting.

The admin and mods figured they were in the right... well when you got no members and no traffic have fun moderatoring no new posts. Like in sales, the members are always right, you pinch us enough you may lose us.

[RiverOtter]

When someone posts "Costco/Walmart/WSS/CT etc has a sale on xyz product for $xxx .xxx " then it's advertising for those companies, whether you are benefitting from it financially or not.

Hope that is simple and clear.

Crystal clear....

Next time someone finds a really good piece of hunting gear, they can start a thread titled "Great new piece of gear".

The first post could go something like this, "Bought a new (GFY) and it worked awsome on my recent sheep hunt. I paid (GFY), which I thought was very reasonable for such a product, considering its weight and multi use capabilities. If you would like one for yourself, you can find it at (GFY).

Am I missing anything?

[Iltasyuko]

Having a hunting website where we can all share our stories, pictures and ideas is awesome too. A few rules and guidelines that keep current sponsors happy seem pretty reasonable to me. I realize Gunner's question seemed innocent enough yesterday and I even responded on his thread. The fact is, site sponsors sell merino wool base layers as well. Directing business away from those sponsors will take away their desire to support the site. Not sure why this is so hard to understand.



Thanks coach!

[boxhitch]

The thread on wool pant has lots of name dropping happening, yet it ticks on, so I guess GR doesn;t sell wool pants.

[Elkhound]

we try pretty hard to not have our site sponsors compete with any free advertising. Not fair when you pay for it and other companies get it free.

Some posts fall through the cracks though....

[The Dawg]

What about saying " I shot a moose with a ruger topped with a vortex, firing Barnes....I love it "

Thats positive word of mouth of non-sponsors, but those dont get deleted.

[Sideofabarn]

What about saying " I shot a moose with a ruger topped with a vortex, firing Barnes....I love it "

Thats positive word of mouth of non-sponsors, but those dont get deleted.

Probably due to the fact that there is no retailer, and no price mentioned on the thread. Seems that those two variables are difference between what constitutes advertising, and what doesn't. Just a hunch though. We can still pimp Goldbond, providing we don't tell anyone where to get it, and the price :mrgreen:

[Gateholio]

What about saying " I shot a moose with a ruger topped with a vortex, firing Barnes....I love it "

Thats positive word of mouth of non-sponsors, but those dont get deleted.

A number of our sponsors sell those products, so please feel free to spread the word of your success with those items. Just don't start a thread about how WSS has a sale on Vortex optics, please. Make sense? ;)

[reach]

The idea of censoring the forums to favour the sponsors is fundamentally flawed. When I make a purchase, I want to feel good about it. I want to know that I've considered all the factors and picked the best combination of price, service and other intangibles.

What you're saying by censoring the forums is that the sponsors prefer to do business by duping their customers into buying from them by manipulating the information we have as customers. That may not be your intention, but that is the effect.

Censorship of any kind creates an atmosphere of distrust, and the sponsors are now associated with that.

[Iltasyuko]

The Wholesale Sports catalogue has full page ads from gear manufactures– Garmin purchased an entire page in the GPS section, but the catalogue lists products from Garmin and many other GPS manufacturers. What is going on with this forum is akin to advertisers like Garmin telling Wholesale Sports they cannot list products from competitors because Garmin has purchased advertising space.


Who knows if advertisers on HBC are trying to manipulate conversations in the forum, but it appears to be the case. There are those that believe in open markets and freedom, and those that when given the ability, will sort out for all what is fair, ethical and right.

[ianwuzhere]

Crystal clear....

Next time someone finds a really good piece of hunting gear, they can start a thread titled "Great new piece of gear".

The first post could go something like this, "Bought a new (GFY) and it worked awsome on my recent sheep hunt. I paid (GFY), which I thought was very reasonable for such a product, considering its weight and multi use capabilities. If you would like one for yourself, you can find it at (GFY).

Am I missing anything?

So is riverotters "way" of writing it up ok and not be deleted??

i thought this site was for the hunters by the hunters!



hmmm..

[Sideofabarn]

So is riverotters "way" of writing it up ok and not be deleted??

i thought this site was for the hunters by the hunters!



hmmm..

Based on what we've seen, I don't think River Otter's write up would be completely ok. Remember, this site is owned by an individual, and pissing him off might be akin to pissing off someone with PMS- the consequences are yours, unfortunately

[dana]

So I'm confused. Can I talk about products that the site sponsers don't sell? Like for instance, Kifaru??? I might like my tent and tell people it's the greatest tent out there and that would draw business away from the site sponsers who sell tents, just not Kifaru right??? Sooo, I would suggest you get a catalog from all the site sponsers and post it up in the rules and tell us we are only allowed to talk about those products if we want to talk gear. Sounds like a fun forum don't it?

[shottyshooter]

You CAN talk about any product or brand- that's just recomending a sku that a sponsor may or may not carry.

Any mention of WHERE to buy the product seems to be the "free advertising" that is against the sites policy.

I can't say I agree with it- although I get where it's coming from - we the users aren't funding the site, the sponsors are, and the site needs to keep them happy for that reason.

Net result is that we can't speak freely. Take it or leave it.

So everybody likes Kirkland wool socks and PM the OP if you don't know where that product is available. Does that work?!?!?!

[ianwuzhere]

what kind of kirkland socks? or can we not discuss that much detail now?
straight up guidelines/rules are now req. "sticky"

[RiverOtter]

We the users aren't funding the site, the sponsors are, and the site needs to keep them happy for that reason.


And there in lies the crux of the situation, if forum users are over governed to keep the sponsors happy, there will simply be less users, or users who distrust the information that is posted here and look elsewhere.

I've always maintained, "Good Shit Sells Itself", and I don't see that changing anytime soon. In this day and age, businesses had better well be up to date on the free market place concept, and stock/price accordingly. The fact that a sponsor or sponsors bitched about competition, which is fairly obvious at this point, only makes me as a consumer question any/all sponsor's on this site.....

If censorship is gonna be the norm on the "Hunting Gear" forum, I would honestly hope the forum is removed all together, as big of a loss as that would be. Sad, but true.....

[Gateholio]

The idea of censoring the forums to favour the sponsors is fundamentally flawed. When I make a purchase, I want to feel good about it. I want to know that I've considered all the factors and picked the best combination of price, service and other intangibles.

What you're saying by censoring the forums is that the sponsors prefer to do business by duping their customers into buying from them by manipulating the information we have as customers. That may not be your intention, but that is the effect.

Censorship of any kind creates an atmosphere of distrust, and the sponsors are now associated with that.

Oh, bullshit....You re making a mountain out of a molehill. There is no "duping" going on here. All the companies in question have websites and toll free numbers and often send out catalogs and flyers. If you are interested in purchasing from them or comparing prices, it's dead easy to seek out the info.

For the record, NONE of our sponsors have ever complained about someone "advertising" for Walmart, Costco, Cabelas etc. The mods take it upon themselves to remove that type of thread because quite simply- it's not fair to our sponsors, who actually PAY to keep this site working. For the most part our sponsor are independents, small businesses. You know, the "little guys." They do a damn good job at personal customer service, something you won't get from the big boxes.

They see value in advertising on HBC, because it's a personal, direct connection to avid hunters. They donate prizes to our contests, they pay to keep the site up and running and the very least we can do for them is to refuse direct free advertising from their competition.

Nobody is saying you can't start a discussion about what sort of tent, pack, socks etc you should buy. Talk about Kifaru, Kirkland socks, Garmin GPS etc all you want. None of these sort of threads have ever been deleted. But when you start a thread that says "Costco is selling these sweaters for X dollars" expect it to get deleted. There is a very clear distinction between having a discussion about product quality and putting up a thread that is clearly advertising, and it's a pretty simple distinction. I'm actually surprised that some people are having a tough time grasping this concept. We've all talked about Nosler or Barnes bullets, Remington shotguns, Mystery Ranch packs etc. This is quite different from starting a thread that's sole purpose is to advertise a specific product from a specific retailer.

And about advertising for 2 for 1 burgers at A&W? Well, as I said, Wendys and McD's don't advertise here. If someone puts up a thread about some deal from a retailer that isn't in direct competition with our sponsors, we will probably let it go, as it's not being unfair to the sponsors that pay for this site. if someone feels strongly about starting threads about Costco sales, by all means, approach Costco and see if they will come on board as a sponsor. My guess is that their willingness to support hunters stops at their bottom line.

I personally think that the value of HBC extends far further than knowing that Costco is selling socks for a cheap price. I don't think I am alone here..........

[huntcoop]

I was just looking at the GR website and they are selling ONE pair of merino socks for $22.99, I just received FOUR pair for $11.99

......did I just save $80.00????

[Onesock]

Censorship. I hardly think stating a price and where you bought something is advertising for thet retailer only stating a fact helping out fellow hunters. You would think the sponsors would like to know what the competition is flaunting. Huh? I am damn sure costco will still sell their Merino socks and underwear even without HBC!

[Gateholio]

I was just looking at the GR website and they are selling ONE pair of merino socks for $22.99, I just received FOUR pair for $11.99

......did I just save $80.00????

Depends on the quality of the socks. Maybe, maybe not.

Halfway up a mountain on a 10 day hunt is a shitty time to discover that a bargain wasn't really a bargain.

[Gateholio]

Censorship. I hardly think stating a price and where you bought something is advertising for thet retailer only stating a fact helping out fellow hunters. You would think the sponsors would like to know what the competition is flaunting. Huh? I am damn sure costco will still sell their Merino socks and underwear even without HBC!

If you don't think that starting a thread about a retailer selling a certain product for a certain price is a form of free advertising, then you should get into the ad business. You would make lots of customers happy until you went broke.

[The Dude]

There's a sale on used oil tankers, if anyone's in the market. CrudeBoyz is no longer a sponsor, so we're good, right? :D

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[Shooter]

Does it come in blue tho?

[fuzzybiscuit]

Does this mean that we can only talk about Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep now that we have a site sponsor that works there?

It's a good thing then that Jeff and Fisher-Dude aren't around anymore, because boy would they be pissed!

I'll have to let them know on the "other" site how this place has gone downhill since they left. :-D

[Gateholio]

Well, who doesn't want thier own oil tanker ship? ;)

[The Dude]

Man, they had a WW2 sub, but I missed it! Damn!
http://www.ships-for-sale.com/submarine_for_sale.htm

[Crazy_Farmer]

For the record, NONE of our sponsors have ever complained about someone "advertising" for Walmart, Costco, Cabelas etc. The mods take it upon themselves to remove that type of thread because quite simply- it's not fair to our sponsors, who actually PAY to keep this site working...

If the sponsors have never said anything then how do you know you're in the right? Mods taking it upon themselves to use or abuse their "cyber" power,

[greenhorn]

Forgive me for chiming in... but couldn't this issue of naming stores and prices be solved with private messages?

If someone really want to spread the word couldn't they say something like:

"Just got a great deal on Mossy Oak Underwear, PM me if you want info...."

Any problem with that?

[The Dude]

Too bad... Think of the possibilities of that boat on the Tuchodi.... No need for camo..


I'm thinking : Sink the Steve Irwin, and then sneak up on those pesky Grizzly bears in the river mouths, eating all my feeshes!

[Gateholio]

If the sponsors have never said anything then how do you know you're in the right? Mods taking it upon themselves to use or abuse their "cyber" power,

Being fair to companies that are paying for a product is simply "right."

Whether anyone complains or not.

I doubt very much if you would feel that there was an "abuse of power" if someone put an end to an individual or company getting a product for free that you personally had to pay for.

A simple analogy would be this:

You are a billboard company. You rent advertising space to Lucky Lager and put a big Lucky billboard up. Some one comes and plants a big Budweiser sticker on top of the billboard.

Do you let it go, until Lucky Lager notices it and complains? Or do you just take it upon yourself to remove the sticker?

[huntcoop]

I was just looking at the GR website and they are selling ONE pair of merino socks for $22.99, I just received FOUR pair for $11.99

......did I just save $80.00????

[The Dude]

If this were a membership-based site, where we all paid for access equally, I could see the complaints as being Justifiable.

However, it is not. It is sponsor-driven, with input from the members with raffles and merchandise.

Imagine you're printing a small newspaper, and trying to attract advertisers, which you accomplish. You're making ends meet.
Now you hand over the papers for distribution, and the distributor stuffs the paper with flyers for companies that are in direct competition with the advertisers you cultivated and won.
How do you think the folks that paid for advertising would feel?

[reach]

Oh, bullshit....You re making a mountain out of a molehill. There is no "duping" going on here. All the companies in question have websites and toll free numbers and often send out catalogs and flyers. If you are interested in purchasing from them or comparing prices, it's dead easy to seek out the info.

For the record, NONE of our sponsors have ever complained about someone "advertising" for Walmart, Costco, Cabelas etc. The mods take it upon themselves to remove that type of thread because quite simply- it's not fair to our sponsors, who actually PAY to keep this site working. For the most part our sponsor are independents, small businesses. You know, the "little guys." They do a damn good job at personal customer service, something you won't get from the big boxes.
Two points.

1. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just telling you how this policy makes me feel. Personally, I will be *avoiding* site sponsors due to this policy. That's a simple fact. Take it or leave it. Maybe nobody else feels the same, or maybe they do. But I, for one, strongly disagree with this policy for reasons already stated.

2. I, personally, have donated my hard earned cash to this site on several occasions. I suspect many other members have too. So I don't think it's entirely fair to completely disregard our opinions.

[Gateholio]

Two points.

1. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just telling you how this policy makes me feel. Personally, I will be *avoiding* site sponsors due to this policy. That's a simple fact. Take it or leave it. Maybe nobody else feels the same, or maybe they do. But I, for one, strongly disagree with this policy for reasons already stated.

2. I, personally, have donated my hard earned cash to this site on several occasions. I suspect many other members have too. So I don't think it's entirely fair to completely disregard our opinions.


Basically what you are saying is that you think it's fair for someone to get something for free, that others have to pay for, and because of that, you will boycott those that pay for the service. I don't agree with that, but I've already stated this, and been as straightforward and honest about it as I can. Not much more I can do than that.

[J_T]

Two points.

1. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just telling you how this policy makes me feel. Personally, I will be *avoiding* site sponsors due to this policy. That's a simple fact. Take it or leave it. Maybe nobody else feels the same, or maybe they do. But I, for one, strongly disagree with this policy for reasons already stated.

2. I, personally, have donated my hard earned cash to this site on several occasions. I suspect many other members have too. So I don't think it's entirely fair to completely disregard our opinions.Reach, well laid out and presented discussion. I'm not sure your points were understood or validated. It comes down to the output, how do site users (shoppers) feel. Controlled? Is not going to help sponsor sales. We shop at certain places because we want to not because we're told to. And i believe site users here want to support sponsors (thats not in question) and they will. But they want to feel they did it because it was a choice. Not because they were told to. And I realize there is a choice to shop anywhere the point is, perhaps the policy could be reviewed and even relaxed a bit.

[Marc]

All,

The Mods and Admins are only doing what I'm asking them to do. Nohing has changed in several years so I'm uncertain why this is becoming an issue now?

The reasoning behind it is simple, it's not to force the membership to buy from the sponsors but more to entice the the other companies who are sitting on the fence to come on board. On several occasions we've had people join the website for the sole purpose to push their product or services.

Do you think most companies will pay to be a sponsor if the forum is already full of post of their products? Do you think that present sponsors will pay to keep advertising if they can just get people to create threads about their products in the forums for free?

It is complicated and not that easy to draw the line of what is considered advertising or not. If I only had a couple hundred members and it was only costing a couple hundred dollars a year to run the site the need for sponsors wouldn't be that big of an issue, but when you have close to 15,000 members and its costing you thousands of dollars to keep it running there are thing that you have to do that will not please everyone.

Yes the members help with the running cost by participating in the raffles,and I greatly appreciate the support! Most of the prizes are also donated From our Sponsors, supplied below cost price or free to help support the site. We've also had members donate out of their own pockets to help keep HBC running for all.


The site has a lot to offer and it's free, no Annual membership fee, and a great place for new hunters to get advice, and an awesome place to share your experiences in the woods with others.

It is not a democracy and their are rules and guidelines to follow.

[coach]

Great answer, Marc!

[MB_Boy]

Great answer, Marc!


Absolutely agree!!

It escapes me how this seemingly simple rules on advertising is so difficult for so many to understand on a site that is provided for users, FREE OF CHARGE.

If it makes your user experience SO miserable....get off the internet and go stand around the bulletin board at your local sporting goods store or hunting club and wait for someone to talk to you. :mrgreen:

[Marc]

I get the mods reasoning in principle, just think there needs to be some input from the site sponsors to get their take. Are they feeling butt hurt over this? If not, perhaps it could be applied differently.

The concern I have over this issue in principle will come to light when a thread is posted over a customer service concern with a site sponsor. Seen this before on another site where that thread(s) got deleted and you thought this was a topic for heated discussion. Wait for it. Things like this can really hurt or destroy a site. Don't want to see that happen here.

This has come up in the pass where someone complained about one of the sponsors on the site without bringing up the issue with the sponsor. The sponsor came onboard and the issue got resolved. This is also not a place to air your dirty laundry. If there is an issue it should be taken to the manager of the store to be resolved and if it doesn't get resolved then I should be contacted so that I can note it.

Its not fair and uncalled for to call someone out for something if they didn't even know there was an issue.

[RiverOtter]

After all this, I'm starting to get the impression that things have come full circle, and short of starting a thread titled, "Joe Blows has graffle grommets on for $12.99", we're still allowed to discuss prices, places and quality within a thread.

If not, I can't imagine the moderation head ache's involved in policing it....

[RiverOtter]

As per internet shopping, I'll admit I'm fairly fussy, and price is nearly always the deciding factor; assuming the same product from 2 reputeable, but different companies.

That said, Grouse River for example is only about 40 minutes from my house and I support them regardless of the best price or not, simply because they have great customer service and I want to help keep a local sporting goods store in business......

[Gateholio]

After all this, I'm starting to get the impression that things have come full circle, and short of starting a thread titled, "Joe Blows has graffle grommets on for $12.99", we're still allowed to discuss prices, places and quality within a thread.

If not, I can't imagine the moderation head ache's involved in policing it....

Sure, nobody is saying you can't do product reviews. The posts that get deleted are exactly like the Graffle Grommets example. :)

[reach]

The reasoning behind it is simple, it's not to force the membership to buy from the sponsors but more to entice the the other companies who are sitting on the fence to come on board. On several occasions we've had people join the website for the sole purpose to push their product or services.
That may be the INTENT; but that's not the only EFFECT. That's my point.

For me, purchasing decisions are all about trust. It FEELS like you're trying to force the membership to buy from the sponsors by controlling the flow of information. If I see a post with glowing reviews of a sponsor's products and services, great. But how do I know there weren't 10 other posts with mediocre experiences, or pointing out better experiences elsewhere, that got deleted or were never posted in the first place due to these policies? If I don't trust the information I read on this site, then I can't trust the sponsors either.

I realize it's a balancing act for you Marc and I appreciate the hard work you put into running this site. But "moderation" of the forums in the ways you're describing is a real minefield.

[MB_Boy]

That may be the INTENT; but that's not the only EFFECT. That's my point.

For me, purchasing decisions are all about trust. It FEELS like you're trying to force the membership to buy from the sponsors by controlling the flow of information. If I see a post with glowing reviews of a sponsor's products and services, great. But how do I know there weren't 10 other posts with mediocre experiences, or pointing out better experiences elsewhere, that got deleted or were never posted in the first place due to these policies? If I don't trust the information I read on this site, then I can't trust the sponsors either. .

I would be interested to hear how many members feel as though they are being "forced" into purchasing from sponsors. Reach, as a consumer you are ABSOLUTELY free to purchase goods from ANY retailer you so choose. HBC is not your "one stop shop" that should be the be all end all of your shopping....great to get reviews here and feedback on products but I don't know why you feel you're being forced to purchase from sponsors.



As I work in the Business Development/Sales/Marketing world I absolutely get WHY Marc has these rules.

I used this example before as the same type of "censorship" as so many refer to it as. A few years ago when the Canucks were making their Stanley Cup run Molson was the title sponsor for Rogers Arena. ALL beer that is sold or advertised inside the arena is a Molson product in one way, shape or form. Molson advertising executives are NOT going to be pleased if there are Labatt's ads or advertising in any form popping up in the arena without the Canucks addressing it. What happened during the playoff run is some new beer was being introduced to the BC Market and they attempted what was essentially a "guerilla marketing" type stunt in which a TON of individuals were all dressed up in very bright outfits to draw attention to this beer. They were all over the place and it was very obvious that this was an advertising scheme.....subsequently they were all asked to leave the arena which in my opinion was absolutely warranted.

If I own a company and am advertising and paying dollars to do so I would not be pleased as to why others can freely advertise without paying? The fine line is "yes" it would be great on this site to hear that a giant box retailer has a sale on 'product X' but where do you draw that fine line as to what you'll allow? With the anonymity of the internet you have NO idea what affiliation a member has to a particular retailer. I could drop all sorts of messages about things being on sale at 'Retailer X' and for all you know I could be employed by said company and trying in a roundabout way to get some free advertising and publicity.



My whole thing is why people have such an issue with just understanding rules which are pretty simply laid out. I was in the first 200 or so members on this site and have seen this topic among others that dispute the "rules" Marc has laid out so many times over the years and it just leaves me shaking my head.

[stoneguide]

The way I see it is that sponsors pay to get their name out there, but not to manipulate the system to block all info but their own. A well run buisness that has competative prices should be far from worried about word of mouth hurting them on HBC. If us discusing a product and price on HBC is taking buisness from a sponsor obviously that sponsor is either giving poor service or gouging us with high prices, and that is the exact type of info that should be passed on to our fellow members not hid.
It seems that if HBC sponsors need HBC to protect there buisness and hid all other prices and options then they arent that great to begin with and we should be looking at retailers that have nothing to hide and that arent scared of a little competition. Offer the best price, best products and the best service and all gear reviews and such will discuss your buisness on HBC with out HBC running full censorship!!!!!
But hey thats just my thoughts!

[RiverOtter]

Reach, read Gates post above your's.....

Seems fairly fair to me.....

[BromBones]

The way I see it is that sponsors pay to get their name out there, but not to manipulate the system to block all info but their own. A well run buisness that has competative prices should be far from worried about word of mouth hurting them on HBC. If us discusing a product and price on HBC is taking buisness from a sponsor obviously that sponsor is either giving poor service or gouging us with high prices, and that is the exact type of info that should be passed on to our fellow members not hid.
It seems that if HBC sponsors need HBC to protect there buisness and hid all other prices and options then they arent that great to begin with and we should be looking at retailers that have nothing to hide and that arent scared of a little competition. Offer the best price, best products and the best service and all gear reviews and such with discuss your buisness with out HBC running full censorship!!!!!
But hey thats just my thoughts!

Exactly my thoughts.

I've bought products from our site sponsors and done full reviews on this site - packs, boots, optics, rifles, etc and always give credit to OSFS or Grouse River (two of my favorite stores). I know for a FACT that I've brought more business to some of these guys by recommending their products to other hunters and outdoors people.

When a post of mine gets nuked because I mentioned a good product from another good store like Barneys Sports, I dont really agree with it. There are quite a few items in my hunting gear now that I never would have heard of, had it not been for word of mouth on this website - products that the site sponsors do not sell.

I dont think it's necessary to be so sticky about it. If someone wants a Barney pack for example, I dont see the issue with posting about where to buy it and how much it costs. Not really taking away from the site sponsors by doing that, IMO.

[Gateholio]

Exactly my thoughts.

I've bought products from our site sponsors and done full reviews on this site - packs, boots, optics, rifles, etc and always give credit to OSFS or Grouse River (two of my favorite stores). I know for a FACT that I've brought more business to some of these guys by recommending their products to other hunters and outdoors people.

When a post of mine gets nuked because I mentioned a good product from another good store like Barneys Sports, I dont really agree with it. There are quite a few items in my hunting gear now that I never would have heard of, had it not been for word of mouth on this website - products that the site sponsors do not sell.

I dont think it's necessary to be so sticky about it. If someone wants a Barney pack for example, I dont see the issue with posting about where to buy it and how much it costs. Not really taking away from the site sponsors by doing that, IMO.

Maybe I am missing something but your product review thread for Barneys packs was never nuked?

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?81290-Tried-out-the-Barney-pack-today

Nor was your thread on Filson products:

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?63148-Filson-wool

Or taiga bags, Badlands packs. MR packs, MSR superfly or any other threads you have started about products. So I'm not sure what the issue is???

[Gateholio]

DnD, generally PM's are not sent to starters of deleted threads, except in extenuating circumstances. If your thread or post is deleted, it's because it violated some policy, and the member is expected to understand that. If they are unclear about why it was deleted, they are welcome to PM a mod about it, which is not uncommon.

This is nothing new, advertising threads have been deleted for years- so it really shouldn't be this confusing.

[Iltasyuko]

This quote from Marc's post sums it up nicely "It is not a democracy". I don't think it can be made much more clear than that.

[The Hermit]

As an HBC sponsor, active member, and consumer, I can see both sides... I love the gear reviews, I love finding deals and hearing about great service, and have relied on other member's recommendations when making personal purchasing decisions. This kind of "sharing" informs my choices on what new products to consider bringing into the store too! I have purchased from and referred others to some of the other sponsors, as they have from and to me... beyond that market competition is a fact of life.

Most of the sponsors here sell commodities that can be purchased from hundreds if not thousands of sources and we hope that our site contributions, participation will generate some good will and consideration when members make their purchasing decisions. Some of us also offer products that we manufacture and craft locally and we compete head to head on those products too. Some of us also offer "HBC Specials" and Group Buys" as a form of direct advertising in the Sponsor's Corner and thereby provide members with exceptional pricing from time to time. So personally, I like to think that some of us actually make this site attractive in those ways too.

The thought that members here would refuse to patronize my store because I'm a sponsor and therefore somehow complicit in conspiring to manipulate members puzzles me... of course that is the essence of advertising in general! Maybe I should talk to Marc about sponsoring the Female Appreciation thread and post the Daily Daisy? ;-)

All that said, I don't like blatant free advertising of products that I offer when I am paying a fair chunk of change for the privilege. However, even though I offer high quality merino wool pants and socks from First Lite, I must admit that ran out and bought a bunch of socks for myself because they were such a great deal. LOL

[Gateholio]

Copy that, perhaps here lies the opportunity to make things better next time this type of action is necessary. Again, I can't comment as to how much time and effort is required to administrate a site like this, but would a PM be a reasonable action item to add to the list when deleting threads? I understand it hasn't been that way, but it could make it better going forward. JMHO. If there's confusion and unrest, there's opportunity too.


If it were that simple...Unfortunately, many people take deletion notification PM's or infraction notifications as an invitation to start an argument and/or throw insults at the mods. People that have a question are still welcome to PM a mod of course.

[ianwuzhere]

If it were that simple...Unfortunately, many people take deletion notification PM's or infraction notifications as an invitation to start an argument and/or throw insults at the mods. People that have a question are still welcome to PM a mod of course.

if i started a thread and was deleted i would expect a short explaination of why -cuz some people just do not know the rules as some threads are ok and others are not.. i have been on this site for 6 years and did not know these rules- the sock thread was up for over a month and then one day just deleted soo....??.

if someone then argues or throws down insults at mods thru pm's well then thats a different situation..

[Gateholio]

if i started a thread and was deleted i would expect a short explaination of why -cuz some people just do not know the rules as some threads are ok and others are not.. i have been on this site for 6 years and did not know these rules- the sock thread was up for over a month and then one day just deleted soo....??.

if someone then argues or throws down insults at mods thru pm's well then thats a different situation..

f you need an explanation, just PM a mod, they should be able to help you.

[Singleshotneeded]

HBC members should be able to post when they come across a good deal that'll benefit other HBC members.
I had a friend pick up two four packs of those socks from that outfit that begins with a c, and each of those
four packs was the price I usually pay for a single pair of merino wool socks! Mind you, these ones aren't
quite as warm as my thick merino wool hunting socks that I use for late season, but for September thru
mid October they'll do just fine, at a quarter of the price. Thanks very much to the HBC guy who posted
about them, it was very much appreciated and saved me money...good advice and good info is why we
log on to HBC for the most part. If the site sponsors are concerned that they'll lose a bit of business as
a result of some good deals posted on HBC by members, nothing is stopping them from posting that they'll
match the price of the "good deal" if it's equivalent quality. No, the 70% merino wool socks that are being
sold in FOUR PAIR packs for $11 aren't quite as toasty warm as the best merino socks that sell for that price or a
bit more for ONE PAIR, but they're just fine for well into October and a heck of a good deal!

[Mr. Dean]

Like it or not like it, it is what it is.
Doesn't matter if it's understood, or not ---> Thems ARE the rules.

And seeing as how there isn't a Grievence Procedure , I vote for this thread being locked too - I think the point has been well made AND explained, in a clear as crystal kind of way.

And WTS, I don't get why people get their panties bent outta shape, all over a rule when they're [B]visiting someone else's house!
It really sounds petty....

Just Saying. :wink:

[J_T]

Like it or not like it, it is what it is.
Doesn't matter if it's understood, or not ---> Thems ARE the rules.

And seeing as how there isn't a Grievence Procedure , I vote for this thread being locked too - I think the point has been well made AND explained, in a clear as crystal kind of way.

And WTS, I don't get why people get their panties bent outta shape, all over a rule when they're [B]visiting someone else's house!
It really sounds petty....

Just Saying. :wink: Point has been made, but I'm not sure the question was understood.

[ianwuzhere]

ahh, when it was once a small site, now has grown to be all about the money$ ...
good luck to all the sponsors, hopefully they sell their products well, and us "small guys" will continue to keep looking for a quality deal amongst us.
over n out :(

[Elkhound]

ahh, when it was once a small site, now has grown to be all about the money$ ...
good luck to all the sponsors, hopefully they sell their products well, and us "small guys" will continue to keep looking for a quality deal amongst us.
over n out :(


All about the money? you have no clue. The site pays for itself. The owner still works for a living. why? Cause he isnt getting rich on HBC lol.

[David]

This is nothing new, advertising threads have been deleted for years- so it really shouldn't be this confusing.

Correct.

Earlier in my "career" on this website I posted an "FYI Scarpa Boots are on sale here for XXX". Store was not a site sponsor, post got deleted, I was not notified.

No big deal, now I know better.

And really, if you were in the market for Scarpa boots at the time you should have been able to find the deal. It was a big retailer and the price was on their website.

Me.

[bigwhiteys]

Being that I make a living online and participate and advertise in other forums there are some problems with inconsistency here on the advertising rules.

I can go through the gear forum right now and pick out several threads with manufacturer and product names as the thread title. A good example is the KUIU thread on them changing their camo pattern. There is a link to their website right in the thread...

MOST forums (and I am a member of one with over 100,000 members - where I DO pay to advertise) wouldn't allow that link... They would however allow the members to talk about and discuss the said product, without the links.

Why...? Because an actual LINK from a thread on a site like HBC not only gives them DIRECT targeted traffic but it also gives their website a link popularity boost which is beneficial for Search Engine placement. (which can be VERY expensive!!!)

Deleting a thread about Costco Socks (where many of us shop anyways) is sort of... Well... Stupid when you just take a glance through the Gear forum and see all the under-the-radar advertising going on. If there was a link to BUY the Costco socks NOW then that's a different story.

It's Marcs site and he can run the show anyway he sees fit. I am just giving an example of what I see as someone who makes a full time living in this industry (online advertising).

If you understand online advertising you may already know the return from forum advertising is much greater when you actually participate IN the discussions! Not just a banner ad on the site... In actual fact the banner ads likely bring very little "buyer" traffic to the business and provide almost zero benefit for Search Engine placement. If they have proper conversion tracking in place (most of the advertisers here DON'T) they would already know this.

Forum users don't come to a forum to be greeted with ads... (even though they are necessary to fund the site) They come to a forum for the discussions that are taking place. It's unlikely people see the banner ad and decide to buy because the advertiser sponsors the site...

It's much more likely, they've read a few personal recommendations from members here about said business or products in the forum OR the business owner participates in the forum and has built a rapport with individuals who then choose to buy from them based on Know, Like and Trust.

Carl

[dana]

Carl,
Well written point. I think the moderators of this site are way off base with what actually goes on here. If they are going to make rules like they have, then they need to follow those said rules all the time, meaning this gear forum will be completely useless. Any time there is a post about Kifaru or Mystery Ranch or KUIU or a ton of other companies out there, they are breaking the said rules. You can only buy Kifaru from Kifaru. The name says it all. If I brag about my tipi tent, I am breaking the rules. Because a said sponser might sell tents and I am in a sense saying my tent is better than the tents they sell and because I said the name of my tent, I have broken the rules. Which means that 99% of all threads in those gear forum are breakin the rules. So why do we have a gear forum??????

[Gateholio]

Whenever a topic regarding how the site is run comes up, people always seem to have different ideas (of course). This topic is no different. Sounds like some people want MORE regulation of advertising, some want to post whatever they want, and some understand that the policy we have is sorta a happy medium, where you can do product reviews, find out what manufacturers make what good (or bad) stuff but you can't start threads or make posts that are blatant advertising. Like the thread in question that was deleted (Costco is selling socks!!)

It's an easy policy to follow, and doesn't overly restrict members from having in depth discussions about various products.

As always, we won't be able to please everyone all the time. ;)

[Singleshotneeded]

(Costco is selling socks!!)

Wow, now even the mods are talking about the merino wool sock deal at Costco! :-D

[J_T]

Check out the wool hunting pants thread just ahead of this thread. Gotta be a violation going on there...

[hunterdon]

Since the sponsors are supporting this site, I think it is only fair to support the sponsors. It's great to have the freedom to voice one's opinion, but sometimes it's better to listen a bit more.

[fuzzybiscuit]

Originally posted by Mr. Dean;

"And seeing as how there isn't a Grievence Procedure [because this ISN'T a democrocy], I vote for this thread being locked too..."




If you understand that this site isn't a democracy, then you should understand that your vote counts for SFA.

[dana]

Maybe I'm dense, but man have I seen a ton of threads in this forum over the years that have violated the very rules the mods are saying is a must to keep this site going. I have no problem with the rules. Just better enforce them if you have them, instead of just the odd nuke every once in a blue moon.The point I am making is this forum is an absolute waste of time given the rules. You should lock it and throw away the key if you indeed care about your sponsor's rights to be the only ones to promote their products. All I know is the mods make themselves out to be a hard-done by group and their jobs are super tuff blah blah blah. I've moderated much much much bigger forums than this one and all one has to do is click a delete button. Ain't that hard. If the mods policed this gear forum they would see my point, the gear forum breaks the very rules they think they are upholding.

[italhunter]

ahh, when it was once a small site, now has grown to be all about the money$ ...
good luck to all the sponsors, hopefully they sell their products well, and us "small guys" will continue to keep looking for a quality deal amongst us.
over n out :(

If this site were all about money, members would be charged a membership fee to use it. Only then would I think it stupid to stifle members discussing the price of socks at Costco. The terms of membership were clear when we signed up so I see no reason for anyone to complain.

The sponsors of this site should be complaining. There should be more banners on the home page.

[835]

Elk bugle inventory blow out at WS i hear.

lol sorry....

[Gateholio]

Dana, you seem to be one of those that want more restrictions?? I think we have a relatively good policy that everyone should be able to live with.

I know I don't want to wade through every thread to make sure that someone hasn't posted a link or mentioned that some non sponsor happens to sell boots or shotgun shells, and I suspect that none of the mods want to do that, either. However, when someone starts a thread with "Costco selling this for $$$" and then goes on to list the items and product number in the first post on the thread, it's pretty hard to ignore that.

I'm not sure if you have a clear understanding of how the policy is enforced, despite several explanations. JT had a similar concern on the wool pants thread. How I explained it to him is below. Perhaps this would be beneficial to your understanding as well?



JT, there is a clear difference between a thread that starts off asking advice, like this thread:


I've worn out my current wool hunting pants. Not easy to find new ones these days. Anybody know who/where good wool pants can be found? Thanks!

And threads that start off by listing products, prices, even item #'s, like these ones:

Costco has some really nice Merino wool socks right now... 4 pairs for 11.99


Merino wool tops at Costco


To go with the thread on socks... right now Costco has some men's 100% Merino wool long sleeved tops for $19.99. The brand is "True North" and they're made in Canada from Australian Merino wool. Item # is 306257 if you want to call your nearest store to see if they have them.

They also have men's and women's "Paradox" Merino wool blend base layers (top & bottom) but they have very little wool (mostly polyester) and are made offshore.


Hope that helps you understand a bit better. Thanks for your concern.

[fuzzybiscuit]

My wife says the "Little Thumper" that she bought at PanWhora's Box makes her eyes roll into the back of her head like no other. On sale all this week for $29.98.

[835]

29.98 so i dont got to do it anymore...... thats a deal!

[dana]

Gate,
You are totally missing the point of my remarks, which is quite common for you BTW. You must not read many threads in this forum. Do you know how many times when people are discussing gear that price and place bought are mentioned???? Pretty much everytime there is a thread about Boots, tents, campstoves, backpacks, you name it, prices are discussed in the open on this site. And not only prices, but the where the said prices were purchased. So, if you ain't going to clamp down on each and everyone of these many many threads, why clamp down on something so pathetic as socks? Are you gettin' it now, or does my sarcasim still fly over your head?

[Gateholio]

Gate,
You are totally missing the point of my remarks, which is quite common for you BTW. You must not read many threads in this forum. Do you know how many times when people are discussing gear that price and place bought are mentioned???? Pretty much everytime there is a thread about Boots, tents, campstoves, backpacks, you name it, prices are discussed in the open on this site. And not only prices, but the where the said prices were purchased. So, if you ain't going to clamp down on each and everyone of these many many threads, why clamp down on something so pathetic as socks? Are you gettin' it now, or does my sarcasim still fly over your head?

Unfortunately, I think YOU aren't the one that's getting it. I've understood what you were saying from your first post. You aren't grasping what has already been said several times.

I've already said that none of us desire to police every single thread and delete everything single post that mentions non sponsors. I've already said people can do product reviews and have discussions of this nature. We are only really interested in blatant advertising. That's been the case for several years. Go back and do a little reading.

[Onesock]

I hardly think stating where you bought a piece of clothing and how much a person paid for it is advertising for that retail outlet. This is just passing on good deals to the members of HBC.

[Mr. Dean]

When I see a new thread titled: Douche Cleanser, @ Douche's Is Us, for $2.99 - I'll close the thread (like the one we're talking about).


If I see a *post* that casually explains to Fred, that he too can get Douche Cleanser, @ Douche's Is Us. for a DEAL of 2.99, in a thread thats titled: How To Clean Deer Meat, I'll pass on to Freds next post just to see if he went and got any, and to see if he liked it or not on his deer.

Gots It???

[Mr. Dean]

..... And I'll encourage Fred to knock on a sponsors door to see if he can get it there.

[jrjonesy]

Mods and Marc, you've explained yourself clearly and concisely.....time to move on. It all sounds reasonable and makes sense. You're not going to convince those few that are determined be "right".

[Singleshotneeded]

Holy Sheep S#&T! :-D Listen up boys, the mods are saying that if you start a thread and title it, for example:
"What wool pants do you guys recommend?", and then in the first post, you mention "you're looking for a good
pair of wool pants for a fair price, what do you guys recommend?", then it's fine if some of the responses include
which pants, where to get them, and the best price... Just be subtle and don't blatantly irk the paying sponsors. :-)

[J_T]

Holy Sheep S#&T! :-D Listen up boys, the mods are saying that if you start a thread and title it, for example:
"What wool pants do you guys recommend?", and then in the first post, you mention "you're looking for a good
pair of wool pants for a fair price, what do you guys recommend?", then it's fine if some of the responses include
which pants, where to get them, and the best price... Just be subtle and don't blatantly irk the paying sponsors. :-) That's how I see it too. If it isn't in the subject line of the post, your good to go. Nice balance, it will be good for the sponsors to. Generate business.

[The Hermit]

Again, as sponsors we try to provide a service and make some money in the process... Fair Go Mate

Personally, I love it (for example) when someone comes on here and says they're looking for a new set of binoculars, and another member replies with "try Cabelas because they have (those over priced) Swaro EL's on sale at $2,200. This gives me an opportunity to step up and work to sell them an equally good set of Kowa Genesis for $1,500 and save a fellow member a ton of cash. If the conversation in the beginning can't happen, then I wouldn't be aware that someone is looking for binoculars... If I make a sale then its Beaut

On the other hand if someone says "Costco (or other non-sponsor) has Kowa Genesis (the best binos on the market at any price) on sale at $1475 THEN I would be pissed! Totally Shonky

Similarly, I sell exactly the same tents, made by the co-founder of Deluxe Wall Tents (Jim) for signicicantly less money. That is pure competition and is fine in my books too. If one of the other sponsors can beat my price on products we both sell have at it... HBC'ers win! Fair Dinkum.

[Mr. Dean]

Soooooo.
Does anyone know where I can get some Douche Juice on the cheap?

[Shooter]

Try Costco and if that fails keep a close eye on Camofire.com

[Singleshotneeded]

Soooooo.
Does anyone know where I can get some Douche Juice on the cheap?

Find a pretty lady and take her out to dinner first! :-)

[Gateholio]

Holy Sheep S#&T! :-D Listen up boys, the mods are saying that if you start a thread and title it, for example:
"What wool pants do you guys recommend?", and then in the first post, you mention "you're looking for a good
pair of wool pants for a fair price, what do you guys recommend?", then it's fine if some of the responses include
which pants, where to get them, and the best price... Just be subtle and don't blatantly irk the paying sponsors. :-)


Pretty much......Don't push things too far and nothing will get deleted. Pretty easy to comply with, as members have been complying with it for years without too much trouble.

If a thread or post crosses the line, it will be easy to tell, because it will just get nuked :)

[Allen50]

what happened to free speach,,, were all just asking stuff, where can we get this or that,,, hummmmmm...:twisted:

[Gateholio]

what happened to free speach,,, were all just asking stuff, where can we get this or that,,, hummmmmm...:twisted:

My guess is that you didn't' actually read the thread, or you would already have an understanding of where we are at with this topic.

[The Dude]

Put a fork in this thread,
It's done.

[dana]

Pretty much......Don't push things too far and nothing will get deleted. Pretty easy to comply with, as members have been complying with it for years without too much trouble.

If a thread or post crosses the line, it will be easy to tell, because it will just get nuked :)


No it won't! The mods only nuke 1 in about a thousand that crosses the line.

[Gateholio]

Dana, you still don't understand where the line is drawn, despite much explanation. Everyone else that has read the thread seems to get it....

I can explain it for you.

I can't understand it for you.

[Mr. Dean]

If a post of this nature gets nuked, or doesn't get nuked for that matter,,,, why would it bother someone?


It ain't a deal-breaker, is it?
Shit, it's only a post and one of no real importance. :confused: ...

It's not like we banned people for making this mistake.
Isn't there bigger hills that need to be taken?

[dana]

I guess if you guys weren't so hyprocritical it might make sense. Nuke a thread on socks and say the sponsors are your number 1 concern. But keep gobs and gobs of the same kind of threads where big ticket items that actually might make the sponsors a decent dollar or two???? Pennies versus big dollars. Yup, you boys have the sponsors concerns looked after don't ya? What it really boils down to is plain ass poor moderation. No different than when threads in other subforums have blatant abuse of the rules and yet they are allowed to continue on for pages upon pages upon pages with even the mods joining in. And then the same lame ass excuses when it is pointed out them. Oh my gawd, we can't look at every thread. We work so hard and get so little respect. Blah Blah Blah. And then out of the blue ya pick a lame ass thread about socks that no one really gives a flying f about and delete it to make yourselves look like you are working hard. Whatever floats your boats. Just don't say this is all about the sponsors, cause it obviously isn't.

[Gateholio]

I guess if you guys weren't so hyprocritical it might make sense. Nuke a thread on socks and say the sponsors are your number 1 concern. But keep gobs and gobs of the same kind of threads where big ticket items that actually might make the sponsors a decent dollar or two???? Pennies versus big dollars. Yup, you boys have the sponsors concerns looked after don't ya? What it really boils down to is plain ass poor moderation. No different than when threads in other subforums have blatant abuse of the rules and yet they are allowed to continue on for pages upon pages upon pages with even the mods joining in. And then the same lame ass excuses when it is pointed out them. Oh my gawd, we can't look at every thread. We work so hard and get so little respect. Blah Blah Blah. And then out of the blue ya pick a lame ass thread about socks that no one really gives a flying f about and delete it to make yourselves look like you are working hard. Whatever floats your boats. Just don't say this is all about the sponsors, cause it obviously isn't.


It must be such a traumatic experience for you every time you log in. I feel for you, I really do.

[lorneparker1]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcb57bPvPV1rh2ssno1_500.gif

[dana]

Gate,
It is rather humorous after all these years you still don't have a clue do ya? :) :)

[Gateholio]

Oh Dana you little trickster you!:roll:

Yup, I actually do feel for you..... :(

[Trophyslayer]

Notice there isn't any taxidermist sponsors anymore? Where is the moderation there other taxi's posting up there work and those threads never got closed isn't that advertising?

[Gateholio]

Notice there isn't any taxidermist sponsors anymore? Where is the moderation there other taxi's posting up there work and those threads never got closed isn't that advertising?

If you see something that doesn't look right, by all means use the Report a Post feature. We take a look at all reported posts.

[Mr. Dean]

Blah Blah Blah...

OK, so lets pretend that you are 100% correct in your observations about this, and that ya got us all figured out.
Why do you care how we conduct our business?

I don't *Go Off* on the net (as in rest of quoted post), telling you if you're doing good or not, with yours, or how your ass looks.
It ain't NONE of my business and would figure it to look embarrassingly rude, if I did.

On one hand it is amusing but on the other, its,,,, WTF dude?

I take it back:
I re read your post and it really isn't amusing.
In fact, it looks kinda personal with lotsa hate goin on in it - Just saying. :wink:


Anywho,,,,, I can't add any more explanation about this subject.

Peace Out.
Cheers.

[dana]

If you see something that doesn't look right, by all means use the Report a Post feature. We take a look at all reported posts.

At least come up with a new excuse. That lame one has been used way way way too many times by you. Not uncommon that you are one of the ones posting in the threads that have infactions, but somehow it is the other member's job to report threads or else the moderators won't moderate??? So did someone report the socks thread or was that the one you personally really felt strongly about coming down on. ;)

[dana]

Mr Dean,
Take it personally if you want. I don't care. I'm not the one who's been doing a poor job in moderation. Maybe you should reread this thread. At the start, we are told you guys have the sponsors best interests at heart. Then later on we are told, you can post whatever you want as long as you hide it in the thread. So how is that looking after the sponsors best interests??? To me it is glaring hypocrisy. I'm sure there are many other members that see it the same way.

[Mr. Dean]

It's alright, Dana.
Keep up the good work.

And I'll go on living a life of lies, conspiracy's, and decentions....


Real sorry that you feel this way.

[J_T]

If I might just add to this. I have been watching the "Wool Pants" thread and I do agree with Dana. I'm ok with the advertising line in the sand you guys draw. I don't necessarily agree with the ambiguity of it, but that's my issue and as of this discussion, I accept the site policy.

But I do want to point out, you've got 'some guys' asking about wool pants, and one of the site sponsors participates and perhaps, might make a sale, but then Mr Dean - who I believe is a moderator, participates in a way that in essence, steers a potential sale away from a site sponsor. It just confuses me. Mr Dean, I don't know you, and I'm not attempting to pass judgement. Merely an observation. I guess i would think, regardless what you want to say, if you have a site sponsor who may be 'working a deal' you leave it alone and don't steer the conversation away from a sale. Just my observation.

[Mr. Dean]

If I might just add to this. I have been watching the "Wool Pants" thread and I do agree with Dana. I'm ok with the advertising line in the sand you guys draw. I don't necessarily agree with the ambiguity of it, but that's my issue and as of this discussion, I accept the site policy.

But I do want to point out, you've got 'some guys' asking about wool pants, and one of the site sponsors participates and perhaps, might make a sale, but then Mr Dean - who I believe is a moderator, participates in a way that in essence, steers a potential sale away from a site sponsor. It just confuses me. Mr Dean, I don't know you, and I'm not attempting to pass judgement. Merely an observation. I guess i would think, regardless what you want to say, if you have a site sponsor who may be 'working a deal' you leave it alone and don't steer the conversation away from a sale. Just my observation.

You talking about the pants I posted?
I just followed the links from the *Sponsors Website*, to the mfg's pdf catalogue.

I actually thought that if anything, I was tossing a bone to Hermi on this one.
But to be honest, I was more thinking about the member who needed a helping hand...

But anyways, if thats not it, I have no clue what you're talking about JT. :confused:

[Gateholio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Mig9ub_4i8&feature=related

[835]

Has anyone IBTL'ed yet?

[Steelwheels]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Mig9ub_4i8&feature=related

I consider this a very childish response ..... "What a Insult".... Fight The Power?????

[Gateholio]

Has anyone IBTL'ed yet?

You can be the first......It's a great honor. ;)

[835]

Ibtl........................

[bighornbob]

Can the mods tell us why these threads were closed then since no items were mentioned or prices given????

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?79374-New-cabelas-in-WA&highlight=tulalip
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?79382-Cabelas-tulalip-opening-date&highlight=tulalip
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?80297-LML-New-Cabela-s-near-Seattle-opens-April-19&highlight=tulalip
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?81254-Cabelas-in-Tulalip-opened-today&highlight=tulalip

BHB

[Phreddy]

So, probably the best way of dealing with it is posting that you got a good deal on XXXXX for $XXXXXX the other day. If you want to know where I got such a good deal, pm me. That's not advertising in any way shape or form. It's just doing what the forum is for, discussing interesting experiences.

[Steelwheels]

Can the mods tell us why these threads were closed then since no items were mentioned or prices given????

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?79374-New-cabelas-in-WA&highlight=tulalip
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?79382-Cabelas-tulalip-opening-date&highlight=tulalip
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?80297-LML-New-Cabela-s-near-Seattle-opens-April-19&highlight=tulalip
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?81254-Cabelas-in-Tulalip-opened-today&highlight=tulalip

BHB

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6_xD24LVo89x3pKAwj_voEmi9VkLbN fF1spp4BPqJENYm6liT5A Fight The Power...:roll:

I sure wouldn't want to Moderate... Damed if you do Damed if you Don't...

[835]

That dude has little fists

[Gateholio]

Can the mods tell us why these threads were closed then since no items were mentioned or prices given????

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?79374-New-cabelas-in-WA&highlight=tulalip
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?79382-Cabelas-tulalip-opening-date&highlight=tulalip
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?80297-LML-New-Cabela-s-near-Seattle-opens-April-19&highlight=tulalip
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?81254-Cabelas-in-Tulalip-opened-today&highlight=tulalip

BHB


Those threads are all advertising for a Cabelas store. The whole intent of the threads were to advertise Cabelas.

[Phreddy]

When I see a good deal on something that I want and it's available in the local sporting goods store I generally phone the owner and ask him if he can meet the price or at least come reasonably close. While price is just great, I use Bushnell scopes as a classic example of what happens when the price is "better than, say, a Vortex or Leupold. The backup support service is far more important than the few dollars more or less, and I get a kick when I'm talking to the local store owner about some clown who got a real great deal on a scope from XYZ big box store then came into his store and wanted him to install it and set it up for him, and see if he can get some advice on where to hunt for whatever he's after.

[frenchbar]

im sure the sites sponsers more than make up for the little cash or merchindise they give to the site no matter how many times other stores are mentioned on here...its a win win no matter how you look at it .

[d6dan]

im sure the sites sponsers more than make up for the little cash or merchindise they give to the site no matter how many times other stores are mentioned on here...its a win win no matter how you look at it .

The tax writeoffs for advertising is a pretty good trade-off for the sales incurred.

[frenchbar]

im sure the sites sponsers are quite pleased with their deals with the site dan LOL kickin their heels all the way to the bank deposit machine from revenue picked up off here by us fine members of hbc .

[reach]

Those threads are all advertising for a Cabelas store. The whole intent of the threads were to advertise Cabelas.
Well that gets back to the definition of "advertising", doesn't it. All those posters were excited about a hunting-related piece of news and were trying to share that with other members. I am positive nobody had a vested interest in the company in question. To those posters, it's no different from posting a great fishing hole in the fishing forum, or a good spot in the bush to sight in your rifle.

So it's *your interpretation* that it was advertising. Not the intent of the posters.

[d6dan]

im sure the sites sponsers are quite pleased with their deals with the site dan LOL kickin their heels all the way to the bank deposit machine from revenue picked up off here by us fine members of hbc .

I like to think I do my fair share of purchases from our loyal sponsors.:wink:

[Steelwheels]

im sure the sites sponsers are quite pleased with their deals with the site dan LOL kickin their heels all the way to the bank deposit machine from revenue picked up off here by us fine members of hbc .

Little early to be hitting the Cocktails???....SORRY... I thought you were including me in the Fine Member Group..

[frenchbar]

Little early to be hitting the Cocktails???

i got the day off lol to sit around and drink and talk to rednecks

[d6dan]

i got the day off lol to sit around and drink and talk to rednecks

Right on buddy!!!!:-D Have a great day Glen.

[frenchbar]

Right on buddy!!!!:-D Have a great day Glen.

thanks dsixer..i'll tip 1 back for ya ...maybe a double ..lol have a good 1

[Weatherby Fan]

thanks dsixer..i'll tip 1 back for ya ...maybe a double ..lol have a good 1

Hey Frenchbar
Im going to have a quad Baileys on ice !
Cheers buddy
WF

[frenchbar]

Hey Frenchbar
Im going to have a quad Baileys on ice !
Cheers buddy
WF long as your not driving the tug lol good luck on the late season mulie hunt their starting to move .

[Steelwheels]

quad Baileys on ice !
Cheers buddy
WF
Feet on Terra Firma I hope???
I know all about the Drinking abilities of old Seamen!!!

[Weatherby Fan]

Feet on Terra Firma I hope???
I know all about the Drinking abilities of old Seamen!!!

Lmao you bet off until the end of February......should b safe !

[huntcoop]

Dana seems to have hit the nail on the head. No continuity when it comes to "advertising" or discussing items of interest.

[Steelwheels]

Dana seems to have hit the nail on the head. No continuity when it comes to "advertising" or discussing items of interest.

I suppose it all depends on who is at the Helm on any given day....

[rocksteady]

Jeez, I can't believe this thread is still ongoing...... and even worse.....

I can't believe I just read all 15 pages of the bickering :(

[Steelwheels]

Jeez,
I can't believe I just read all 15 pages of the bickering :(

Bickering.... come and hang at my house and listen to the girls here...A whole new meaning of the word Bickering...!!

[frenchbar]

Bickering.... come and hang at my house and listen to the girls here...A whole new meaning of the word Bickering...!!

that would be painfull..yikes!

[huntcoop]

....I can't believe I just read all 15 pages of the bickering :(

I only have 4 pages.

[Gateholio]

So it's *your interpretation* that it was advertising. Not the intent of the posters.

Ultimately, *someone* has to make a decision, draw a line, do an interpretation.

What you will notice is that those threads were from 7 months ago. It's not like this "free advertising" policy is new or anything.

[rocksteady]

I only have 4 pages.

You must have a filter for ignoring certain people, that filters down some threads considerably.... I must not be on that list, yet, as you saw that I wrote "15 pages".... :)

[d6dan]

You must have a filter for ignoring certain people, that filters down some threads considerably.... I must not be on that list, yet, as you saw that I wrote "15 pages".... :)

Rock. You can adjust the amount of posts per page in your CP.:-D

[Gateholio]

Dana seems to have hit the nail on the head. No continuity when it comes to "advertising" or discussing items of interest.

The continuity is like lots of "moderation" done on this site. When we see something, we make a judgement call and take action if we feel it's needed. We try not to be too heavy handed, and this site really doesn't require much intervention most of the time.

The only way to have absolute continuity would be to

a) have one person policing the whole site for advertising, constantly.

b) Get really heavy handed with any post that even gets close to the line.

None of the mods are going to do a) and nobody wants b)

We've got a pretty easy going policy. I think everyone can live with it and still get information about products.

[huntcoop]

Fair enough. I guess we might just need to "filter" our threads or posts.

[rocksteady]

Rock. You can adjust the amount of posts per page in your CP.:-D

Hmmm... I see that now, mine was set to default.... You are such a techno geek :)