2-point Moose or Not???

[Buckmeister]

Well 2-point immys open tommorow. So I was out hunting (scouting) today and saw a most confusing bull. He had one brow tine on each side, but the rest of the antler (on each side) was palmed. One side had a small bump that might be counted as a tine, if it is tall enough, but otherwise he was rather flat and rounded. Kinda like a very large rectangular wooden spoon.

So, I'm trying to figure if this is a legal bull or not? Does anyone have any pics of a moose that come close to what I've described and know wether or not it was legal? If this bull is legal then I'm wacking him.

I was looking in the synopsis and there is a note on a diagram that says, "Hunters must refer to the definition of a tine. The rounded protuberances at the top of the main palm on some moose may not constitute a point."
So, if a moose has a palm on each side but no decernable points, is it considered a zero pointer?

So what do y'all think?

[lilhoss]

If, it is as you described,brow points on each side, as you say,and maybe one more legal point,it would, according to the regs, be a legal 2 point or less,not a "zero pointer".
I've seen this same scenario for a 10 point bull or greater.All sorts of size to the antlers,large palms,vortex,etc,but not enough "points"to add up to ten.
bang flop..

[Ambush]

How about this? This is a legal two point bull, BUT I had a big bull tag when I shoot it.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/00133.JPG


http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/00329.JPG

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/00227.JPG

[pnbrock]

I think you are grabbing at straws. We all know the answer it's a spike or a fork cut and dry. Don't think you will win an argument with a co over a wavy palm,not sure a there is ever a palm on a fork animal.

[Buckmeister]

I think you are grabbing at straws. We all know the answer it's a spike or a fork cut and dry. Don't think you will win an argument with a co over a wavy palm,not sure a there is ever a palm on a fork animal.

Thats what I'm trying to find out, does a palm negate it being a 2 point?


How about this? This is a legal two point bull, BUT I had a big bull tag when I shoot it.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/00133.JPG


http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/00329.JPG

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/00227.JPG


Yeah, this is close, but make the palmed part about 4 times bigger.

[landphil]

I'd have to see it in person to give my opinion.

[Buckmeister]

Regardless of legal or not....my son has a LEH any bull draw, so this IS legal game for him.

[reach]

Even if it has no points on it that match the definition, the entire palm would qualify as one point if it's longer than 1" and longer than it is wide. So brow point + 1 big rounded palm = 2 points. IMHO, IANAL etc.

[Ambush]

Reach is right. Points that don't meet the definition of a point can't be counted as points. Palmed or not. Pretty simple.

[eastkoot]

Rather than ask here, go the the ones who know the law and enforce it. Saying you read it on the internet won't cut it when you make a mistake. Like telling them Eastkoot said on the HBC forum it was OK so I shot it.!!!!!

[moose2]

I was told by a CO if its not a 3 point or more by definition it is legal, even if it dosn't match the text book description. He also told me that he uses a 1" long plastic tube with a 1" inside diameter if this tube fits over a point and the point sticks out it is a legal point. If the tube dosn't fit or the tine dosn't poke out its not a point by the laws definition.
Mike

[Whonnock Boy]

This reminds me of the story of a hunter shooting a previously 50 inch mature bull but, one side was broken off completely leaving a large stump. Spike fork or not??? As far as your bull, I would have to see it to pass judgement.

[Buckmeister]

Rather than ask here, go the the ones who know the law and enforce it. Saying you read it on the internet won't cut it when you make a mistake. Like telling them Eastkoot said on the HBC forum it was OK so I shot it.!!!!!

Very good point and I realized that before the first post. What I'm looking for here is some conversation on the subject and to learn what others have encountered, especially when a CO is involved. I did consider calling our local CO and may still do that.

Two years ago I saw a true spike fork, looked like deer antlers on a moose. The year before that I saw a moose that had double "horns" on each side, big like a texas longhorn, that went straight out and were around 14" each. Not textbook, but legal. Didn't shoot either cause ID was questionable as my bino's were fogged up the first time and the second time the moose wouldn't keep his head still. I was 98% sure in both cases they were legal, but that missing 2% kept me from pulling the trigger. The last thing I want to do is have to go and self report!

[reach]

I was told by a CO if its not a 3 point or more by definition it is legal, even if it dosn't match the text book description. He also told me that he uses a 1" long plastic tube with a 1" inside diameter if this tube fits over a point and the point sticks out it is a legal point. If the tube dosn't fit or the tine dosn't poke out its not a point by the laws definition.
Mike
Interesting. I hope I don't run into that CO as that test is not definitive. The first part is true - if a point sticks out it is a legal tine. But the second part is not necessarily true. If the tube doesn't fit or the tine doesn't poke out, it still could be a legal tine.

The rule is: At least 1" long, and longer than it is wide. That's it. Hypothetically it could be 3 feet long and 2 feet wide with a blunt end and would be a legal tine. Obviously the 1" tube wouldn't fit over it, but it would still be a legal tine.

Broken off antlers are a whole other question I think. The regs don't talk about that, so you'd need to ask a CO.

[landphil]

I'd have to see it in person to give my opinion.
So no takers?

[j270wsm]

I seen a bull 2 years ago that broke off the left side palm, all that was left was about 8" of the main beam, CO told me that if I went by antlers it's a legal immature bull. He also said that they would prefer I didn't shoot it because it's obviously not immature.

[Ltbullken]

If nothing else on it meets the definition of a "point", then, as you described it, it would be a legal spike/fork moose.

[Ltbullken]

I seen a bull 2 years ago that broke off the left side palm, all that was left was about 8" of the main beam, CO told me that if I went by antlers it's a legal immature bull. He also said that they would prefer I didn't shoot it because it's obviously not immature.

"prefer" would not stand up in court!!

[SHAKER]

How's this Moose shed?
http://i49.tinypic.com/jpudqt.jpg

How bout this tri palm'r
http://i50.tinypic.com/10f9uv8.jpg

[moose2]

I seen a bull 2 years ago that broke off the left side palm, all that was left was about 8" of the main beam, CO told me that if I went by antlers it's a legal immature bull. He also said that they would prefer I didn't shoot it because it's obviously not immature.

I think this is why they are called spike/fork now instead of immature. It was to help with some of the confusion I believe.
Mike

[Gateholio]

draw a picture of it and scan it,post it for opinions ;)

[gyner]

One brow tine, one paddle without a point as defined in the regs. Eat the sucker! Seen it before. they eat well.lol

[gyner]

I love this game too much.. I would have let this walk, unless a leh was in hand. I dont think that bull would let me put a trisquare on him in the field.
but you are correct in its catagory...

[gyner]

Sorry, this refers to ambushs photo

[j270wsm]

Prefer wouldn't stand up in court

Exactly. I had him in the crosshairs and something spooked him, turned out someone else was in the same area and scared him.

[angus_83]

I count this as a 2 point, shot him with a bull draw though...seen antlers and pulled the trigger. Would have been tough to measure that "nub" through the scope and don't know if I would have pulled the trigger without the LEH.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/rsz_img_0332_2_.jpg

[f350ps]

I count this as a 2 point, shot him with a bull draw though...seen antlers and pulled the trigger. Would have been tough to measure that "nub" through the scope and don't know if I would have pulled the trigger without the LEH.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/rsz_img_0332_2_.jpg

Wow, that's a tough one, I seen his twin last year when Immies were open and spent over an hour soul searchin then finally let it walk. It was a hard decision and during that hour I snuck up to within 45 yds and still couldn't do it. I'll bet he was a good eater, nice job! K

[riflebuilder]

if there are no points on the palms and only a single brow tine it is a legal spike fork bull. Last ear a bud of mine shot a bull that was a 3-4 yr old it had broke off an antler above the single brow tine on onside with a 5 point rack on the other the warden said it was legal. When asked he said it is estimated that less than 1% of mature bulls would have borken antlers and be classified as a spike fork so it was not considered to be a factor that needs to be addressed. So if I saw the bull you describe I would be grinding burger tonight.

[tomahawk]

Well 2-point immys open tommorow. So I was out hunting (scouting) today and saw a most confusing bull. He had one brow tine on each side, but the rest of the antler (on each side) was palmed. One side had a small bump that might be counted as a tine, if it is tall enough, but otherwise he was rather flat and rounded. Kinda like a very large rectangular wooden spoon.

So, I'm trying to figure if this is a legal bull or not? Does anyone have any pics of a moose that come close to what I've described and know wether or not it was legal? If this bull is legal then I'm wacking him.

I was looking in the synopsis and there is a note on a diagram that says, "Hunters must refer to the definition of a tine. The rounded protuberances at the top of the main palm on some moose may not constitute a point."
So, if a moose has a palm on each side but no decernable points, is it considered a zero pointer?

So what do y'all think?

It doesnt really matter what we think, the only opinion that matters is that of a CO or law enforcement personale.

[Buckmeister]

It doesnt really matter what we think, the only opinion that matters is that of a CO or law enforcement personale.

Your right, it doesn't MATTER what y'all think, I am VERY aware of that. This IS a matter of law overall, however gray it may be. But isn't a hunting FORUM a place where people are encouraged to discuss things like this??? Where people can freely express thoughts, opinions, and experiences??? As I said in a more recent post I still ask the question for purpose of conversation on this matter. Maybe reading this thread will also encourage some folks to think twice before they pull the trigger on game that is iffy. As frustrating as it is to let something walk, I believe there is some reward in knowing you did the right thing in an uncertain situation rather than killing the animal and then saying "oops". If I had first seen this moose yesterday (Oct 15th) instead of the day before I most certainly would not shoot. Until I thoroughly discuss this matter with a CO then this beast stands.

To add to my first post I failed to mention that I was only 30 yards from this moose and had a clear unobstructed view of him. I was able to glass him for several minutes before he walked away. He had a very small body size and was the the most homely, scruffiest looking moose I have ever seen. Almost felt sorry for the ugly thing, all the other moose were probably making fun of it.

[Bro 300]

Did he have a shiny red nose as well?