Kill range

[Polaris]

How close would each of the following species usually let a hunter get to score a kill shot for: black tail deer, white tail deer, elk, moose and caribou (assuming a hunter is a fair shot, is reasonable quiet and has a wind advantage)?

[Brambles]

Depends on a lot of variables.

[anglo-saxon]

How close would each of the following species usually let a hunter get to score a kill shot for: black tail deer, white tail deer, elk, moose and caribou (assuming a hunter is a fair shot, is reasonable quiet and has a wind advantage)?

The question is way too vague. You need to get out to the bush and find out for yourself in the area you mean to hunt, knowing your shooting abilities in any given situation, etc., etc, etc.

[Spy]

I have had them within 10 yards ! Go to youtube and watch some video ! Why are you asking ????:confused:

[open-sights]

5 yards, 337 yards, 654 yards, 8 yards and 937 yards

[Polaris]

I am asking because I am new to hunting and have to make a decision what would be the ONE gun to take into the bush to cover the broadest functionality for hunting and personal protection in a SURVIVAL situation in the lower mainland and/or Caribou region of BC.

[Spy]

How much shooting have you done ?

[moosinaround]

300 win mag. Enough said!! Kill them all 0 yards out to a 1000 yards!! Case closed!!! Moosin

[hunter1993ap]

5 yards, 337 yards, 654 yards, 8 yards and 937 yards

all with open sights!

[finngun]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4
he was able to take enemy down [head shot] 450 m with iron sight --mosin nagant...but i have hard time belive ..he in re-born..and is live and well here..my suspicion is strong:confused:

[Polaris]

5 yards, 337 yards, 654 yards, 8 yards and 937 yards with numbers so exact, you wouldn't be making fun of me would you?

[Polaris]

How much shooting have you done ? Just some air rifle (archery and slingshot...)

[aggiehunter]

glock.........................they work good in the lower wasteland

[hunter1993ap]

with numbers so exact, you wouldn't be making fun of me would you?

probably used a range finder so he knows exact numbers. if i were you i would plan for a 30-150 yard shot. shoot a fair amount and find out where you are comfortable shooting. if you only feel comfortable shooting 80 yards dont shoot past that.

[Polaris]

300 win mag. Enough said!! Kill them all 0 yards out to a 1000 yards!! Case closed!!! Moosin I don't doubt that a 30 cal is great for a long shot; the question is, is a 12 gauge (pump action larger mag) better for "defense" if facing a bear or a wolf pack as well as being able to handle deer, moose or game birds at close range.

[ruger#1]

Polaris. Pick up a 3006. And practice with it. Any rifle isnt any good if you can not shoot it, or hit a target. I wouldnt worry about long distance until you have proven yourself on the rifle range. And if this is your first rifle make sure it is cofmfotable to shoot. And do not start out with a magnum.

[elkdom]

I don't doubt that a 30 cal is great for a long shot; the question is, is a 12 gauge (pump action larger mag) better for "defense" if facing a bear or a wolf pack as well as being able to handle deer, moose or game birds at close range.

dont worry which firearm for self defense when/if being "attacked by bears or packs of wolves ",,,,,,,,,

being pummeled by a pair of mating of Spruce Grouse , that is something to really worry about !:lol:



and you CANNOT shoot moose in BC using a SHOT GUN, be it of any gauge !

[Polaris]

ruger #1: I'd love to "practice with it" but I am in a bit of a pickle. I can't practice until I buy a gun and I don't want to buy a gun until I know which one to buy... :) I am in Vancouver and as far as I know, the closest rifle range is in PoCo and I don't think they have rifles or shotguns for someone to try out. Also, I keep hearing that before picking up a 30 cal one would be smart to do A LOT of practicing with a .22 and preferably not a cheap one either. So that's buying 2 expensive rifles right up. Plus to gauge my aptitude and get reasonably good - a whole lot of visits to the range. With the long commute and gas prices what they are that's about $20/drive plus ~ $30/day at the range - ie: $50/visit (did I mention that I am not rich?)...

[Ron.C]

How close would each of the following species usually let a hunter get to score a kill shot for: black tail deer, white tail deer, elk, moose and caribou (assuming a hunter is a fair shot, is reasonable quiet and has a wind advantage)?


Like some have said above, a bit vague and a whole lot of variables that factor into your question.

I hunt with a muzzleloader or bow so my perspective may be different from one who shoots a big caliber centerfire.

For me, I usually try to get as close as possible. If the animal is within my comfortable range and still getting closer, I let it come. Sure you can shoot hundreds of yards with a centerfire rifle but if hunting and the thrill of the hunt is important to you, why not try to get as close as possible before taking your shot. I say your ability to stalk in closer, or call an animal in closer is just as important as your ability to shoot well. And in allot of cases will serve you better.

On our recent hunt, we took 8 animals. The longest shot was 79 yards, the closest was about 25. A few of them were spotted much further then that, but some fun spot and stalk reduced those ranges to very close shots. All were shot with rifles capable of shooting much further then that.

just my two cents

[Sofa King]

5 yards, 337 yards, 654 yards, 8 yards and 937 yards

this.
right to the inch.

[Mulehahn]

The biggest consideration is where are you going to be hunting the most! You can get within 30 yards of most animals if the terrain allows, but if you are going to be hunting in areas with lots of open terrrain then you will have to shoot farther. As for the caliber, thats not nearly as important as a gun that fits you. I primarily shoot a 25-06 and a 7mm-08 because of what and where I hunt. My 7mm-08 is a compact for the bush and my 25-06 is for flat open deer hunting and coyotes. I have larger more "Manly" calibers but I am the most comfortable with these two rifles (besides, if I need a bigger gun I just borrow my buddies Lapua, as long as I buy the brass I can shoot it as much as I want). Get out and try as many guns as you can. And unless you are planning on focusing on road hunting, you will probably not be carrying a shotgun and a rifle so that is a mute point.

[bugler]

Polaris, sounds like a 30-06 is just the ticket for you. One caliber fits all with the 06.

Protection from predators is the least of your worries, particularly wolves.

I hunt bow only and have killed all my game in the last 15 years between 1 and 40 yards.

[Spy]

Just some air rifle (archery and slingshot...)
So as a beginner I presume you have done your core & have a valid firearms license !I would look for a used 243,270 or 308,ammo is cheap & always available in these popular calibres ! Find a range join up & shoot your rifle untill you can confidently hit what you are aiming at ! Hone your skills on the range , before you attemp hunting!
Good luck

[moosinaround]

ruger #1: I'd love to "practice with it" but I am in a bit of a pickle. I can't practice until I buy a gun and I don't want to buy a gun until I know which one to buy... :) I am in Vancouver and as far as I know, the closest rifle range is in PoCo and I don't think they have rifles or shotguns for someone to try out. Also, I keep hearing that before picking up a 30 cal one would be smart to do A LOT of practicing with a .22 and preferably not a cheap one either. So that's buying 2 expensive rifles right up. Plus to gauge my aptitude and get reasonably good - a whole lot of visits to the range. With the long commute and gas prices what they are that's about $20/drive plus ~ $30/day at the range - ie: $50/visit (did I mention that I am not rich?)...
From the sounds of it maybe lawn darts or cribbage should be your activity of choice??!! If you are going to play, you are going to pay! simple. Get an air rifle and practice in your condo, then when you are used to the recoil, sell it use the money to get a 22lr, practice get used to it's recoil, and then sell it. by the time you graduate past a 22lr you should have toughened up a bit for a magnum, then you can come play with the big boys! Buy a combination gun, a 12ga, 7x57 over-under, will cost you a little bread, but then you get 2 for the price of 1. Be careful with the 12ga though it kicks a bit with defensive loads like slugs!;) Moosin

[solo]

Hunting and shooting are expensive hobbies. Why not stick with archery? You can go to Boorman's to practice. Your ammunition is reusable, and you can get there by bus. Just a thought. Good luck!

[squamishhunter]

Make friends and try their guns. Duh.

[coach]

How close would each of the following species usually let a hunter get to score a kill shot for: black tail deer, white tail deer, elk, moose and caribou (assuming a hunter is a fair shot, is reasonable quiet and has a wind advantage)?

If this was the original question - why are we now discussing calibers? None of these animals allow the hunter to get close to score a kill shot. They can all be fooled by making use of wind, cover, stealth, etc. Sometimes they can be killed at less than 5 yards. Sometimes you can't get closer than 500.

[MattTse]

Best advice i was ever given was what was given to you, buy a .22 head into the bush, head up the sea to sky if ur in vancouver, find a dirt road, a good place to shoot ( good full back stop) grab a bunch of cans string them up using the can tabs, and go nuts. .22's are cheep roughly. 20$ for 500. Just shooting for fun, helps u get used to the feel of a rifle, and used to using a scope. I spent 250 on my semi auto .22 with a cheep but reliable scope. I never shoot my 300wm unless ensuring it still shoots strait, practice makes perfect try shooting in all different positions, my first animal I had to take was sitting cross legged at about 170 yards, ground and everything around me was way to dry to find a rest, without spooking the bear.

[yamadirt 426]

i wouldnt waste money on a 22 just to practice then sell to up grade to a hunting rifle. A air rifle has the same kick. Get your self a combo gun. rifle/shottie. look at the savage 24. shoot shoot shoot, hunt hunt.kill. there is an advantage and disadvantage to just about every decision you can make. really depends on your style of hunting which you havent figured out yet. but if you only have enough money for 1 gun. get the 2 in 1

[marcus44]

A couple things... A) Hunting is definitely NOT a cheap activity, invest in your gear and it will treat you good. B) Most of the time you won't need a gun for protection from Bears or Wolves, awareness of your surroundings will help along with a bit of basic knowledge of each animal, if need be a lot of the time all it will take is a couple shots in the air to scare them away. Most of the time they are more afraid of you then you are of them. As for caliber of rifle, everyone has their opinions to what is the best. I started with a 280 remington, great deer gun, I know many guides recommend it as well and it will take down a moose, elk or caribou (as alot of the other guys are saying... practice, practice, practice!!). A good light weight gun. Do you research and try to figure out what caliber is right for you. Get out there and build experience, find someone that has been hunting for years, go out and pay attention and learn from them.

Im no expert by any means and still learning, just make sure you keep learning each time you go out whether it be in the field or on the range.

[Gateholio]

Hunting and defense are 2 different subjects. I wouldn't worry too much about the defense thing, except to say that most big game cartridge will kill bears at close range if need be.

If you are on a budget, there are lots of quality used rifles out there. There are also plenty of inexpensive new rifles too, like Savage.

I'd choose a .308 since there is such an abundance of cheap FMJ practice ammo available.

[olympia]

look into an sks or mosin nagant, try to get a package deal you can get from tradex or canada ammo, i think you can an sks and 100 rounds for 3-400 bucks. Practice and then decide if you want to take your shooting to new level and get a 30-06 or .308. Lurk around on this websites buy and sell area and you might find a parker hale if money is an issue. A mosin nagant can be bought at westrifle for under 150 dollars. Just jump into it with a surplus gun and see where it goes.

[BowRiver]

I can't practice until I buy a gun and I don't want to buy a gun until I know which one to buy... :) I am in Vancouver and as far as I know, the closest rifle range is in PoCo and I don't think they have rifles or shotguns for someone to try out. Also, I keep hearing that before picking up a 30 cal one would be smart to do A LOT of practicing with a .22 and preferably not a cheap one either. So that's buying 2 expensive rifles right up. Plus to gauge my aptitude and get reasonably good - a whole lot of visits to the range. With the long commute and gas prices what they are that's about $20/drive plus ~ $30/day at the range - ie: $50/visit (did I mention that I am not rich?)...


a Ruger 10/22 is a great gun for practicing and learning how to shoot. Not too expensive a gun, and more importantly, the ammunition is cheap! This will let you shoot plenty of rounds ... and practice makes perfect. If you want to go right for the bigger gun, a 30-06 is a good all-rounder but the ammunition will be expensive to learn how to shoot on, and the kick may surprise you. Its a lot tougher to go plinking with a bigger gun.

The Savage packages are a pretty good deal for those of us who are just beginning as well.

[The Dude]

How long is a piece of string, Grasshopper?

And "Self defence shotgun in the LML"? Dude, if you owe the HA's money, I suggest you pay it, and move on! :D

In all seriousness, I wish I was closer, I'd spend a day at the range with you, and you could try 5-6 guns and see what you liked. That's what you need, is for someone to do that with you.

Your're asking the wrong questions, and my first answer was as accurate as your question is vague. There IS no typical range for anything. SO:

You're a newbie, get all your papers in order, #1

You're probably not gonna be reloading for awhile, so forget exotic calibers (Expensive ammo) and stick to the Old Faithfuls ( .270 .308 30-06 etc) Off the shelf convenience, especially in a "We don't sell ammo" Brave New World Order.

LML, not much experience? So I'd say you're gonna start near the LML with Blacktails and Black bears, with possibles at Coyotes.
A 12 guage is not versatile enough, and it kicks like a mother, so leave that for later. A .22 is great to learn on, but other than grouse, ain't much good for your needs.

[The Dude]

A great Blacktail gun is a .243, bt if you're gonna move up to bears (New hunter guys, so don't pounce on this), I would say a .243 is light.
If you move up to Moose and Elk, I don't think it is appropriate. Once more, my opinion.

If you want a good, all around centre-fire rifle for a new hunter with up and down capability in size of game and range of shots, I would go with a .270.

Later, if you wanna get heavier, move to a 30-06 (A moderate step up, I know, but that's my go-to gun)
Later, if you wanna shoot bison, run with the Big Boys and Get a .325 WSM or a 7mm Mag or a .375 Ruger (The new King :D )

For now, go on Tradeex http://www.tradeexcanada.com/ or find a gun store and buy a .270 .
In Vancouver, go to Reliable, and explain your sitation.

And stay away from Lever arms, they'll put you off hunting forever.

[itsy bitsy xj]

glock.........................they work good in the lower wasteland

Thanks!! I laughed so hard I had ice-tea coming out my nose

[leadpillproductions]

Nothing wrong with a 30-06 start with that

[keithb7]

I think I can relate to what the OP is asking. I too just got my CORE completed last year and go into hunting for the first time. I had so many questions and I was not sure where to start. Since that time I have hunted a lot and shot a few things, put about 120 rounds through my .270 and 1000 rounds through my 22. I wanted a gun that I thought would do everything. From Coyotes to Moose, Elk, Deer, the 270 delivers. But range? That's another story. The local Heffley shotting range goes out to 800m. I was with my hunting friend who can hit a 24" square target at 800m with his .300 Weatherby. I had trouble, and never did hit a 48" round circle at 600m. I have since studied ballistics of the 270 and learned a lot about bullet drop vs powder, bullet weight, wind, etc. I am comfortable with my 270 out to about 250 yards. I need more time at the range to try and reach out further, accurately. I have been fortunate and have an understanding wife who tolerates me disappearing for 2 days every weekend to hunt for 3 months of the year. I have been practicing stalking animals. I have been within 20-25 yards of elk, moose, and deer. I have also been 385 yards from a 4 point elk that I really, really wanted to shoot but, passed. I was not comfortable with the shot. You need to learn to be patient, and know your limits of range, and respect that you probably can't make a clean shot out far, and put your gun down. This is responsible hunting. Sometimes I think I need a bigger caliber to reach out farther. Maybe a magnum? Maybe one day, but for now I am having a ton of fun, and my 270 does the job just fine. Just yesterday I had a 2 point buck in my scope at 25 yards. Not the one. I am hoping to find a 4 point this year so I let him go.I will keep at it every weekend, and if I don't find a 4 point? Oh well. It's called hunting not killing. I will have learned a ton more. My 270 already put an elk in my freezer this year, so I am not anxious to take any buck.

In my experience, just buy a common gun with cheap ammo and go shoot lots. If you can't afford the gas and the bullets, maybe you should reconsider hunting until a later time in your life when you can afford it. There will come a time.

[325]

As far as shooting distance goes, most guys can shoot pretty well out to 200-300 yards with a good rest in field conditions. Unfortunately, many guys take shots beyond their effective (skill) range. Don't be one of them.

[olympia]

just get an sks and 1000 round box of ammo, it will get your feet wet with very little expense and then you can decide if hunting is for you and then you can go get a hunting rifle. There are plenty of guys that just want to go to the range to pop off some rounds(pretend like they saved the word). You dont have to hunt if you own a gun but the more people that get involved in the sport the better it is, more voting clout and politicians will wake up to the fact about the absurdity of hindering gun laws in this country, right now all they worry about is ethnic votes, english speaking or french speaking votes, we need as many people as possible to get their pal and hopefully than they will listen to our voice.

[Polaris]

Thank you to all for your answers. Indeed I am a novice to firearms and perhaps I did start with the wrong question. To those who were concerned - I do have my pal (but not yet a hunting license). And - no - I am not penniless and will pay what is needed once I decide what I need. To clarify where I am coming from: while I would like to look into hunting as a sport later on, my primary interest is learning to hunt in a survival situation asap. So, of course, what I would benefit from the most is making some friends who would show me the ropes. I would be thrilled to either shoot some of their guns at targets on some remote FSR to get some idea of what I like or to join someone on a hunt without shooting an animal myself - just learning the dynamics of the hunt, tracking, stalking, skinning, butchering. If anyone's interested - dinner's on me (needless to say I'll pay for ammo I shoot)!

[Johnny G1]

Very good post Polaris, welcome to the hunt.

[paulgug]

i hope you don't feel to mocked by some of the posts. its great that you got you pal, and are reaching out to other hunters for experience before just messing around on your own. obviously that is a good start and you must have some knowledge to get that. i wish i could help you out but i am not in your same area. i agree with many others in saying that you should look into the 30-06. its a great all round rifle. best of luck!

[anglo-saxon]

I don't doubt that a 30 cal is great for a long shot; .

Then you'd be wrong.

From all your speculating, you sound like a city boy with little or no knowledge or experience in either firearms, the bush, or hunting. My suggestion to you is:

1. Learn to shoot.

2. Learn about hunting and about the animals you want to hunt (have you completed your hunter CORE) training? If not, you need to.

3. Get out to the bush as much as possble and just get used to it (long before you decide to go after a critter).

4. Get to know one or two experienced and relaible hunters, if you can, who can give you advice or maybe even take you on a day hunt or two.

5. Be calm, take your time, and expect some dissappointment in the early stages of your quest. Understand, though, that every positive thing you do to learn, or become better equipped, is a positive thing. We all have to start somewhere.

There aren't legions of nasty beasties waiting to gobble you up out there, so you don't need a special firearm for survival. An average, all-round hunting rifle of a moderate caliber will suffice. There are a few guys on here who hunt alone, incl. me. Stop bellyaching about wolves and bear, etc.; it's wasted energy.

Good luck.

Edit: I didn't see your last post before I posted this. Good attitude shown in that. Well done. You're already on the right track. There's a wealth of info on this excellent site and a lot of really decent folk, with tons of nowledge and experience. You can't go wrong. A reasonable goal would be to plan to get out on a spring bear hunt in 2013 and in the mean time get your CORE, buy a rifle and get some training/practice, and get out into the bush a whole bunch, practicing looking for game, etc, etc. Oh, and reading and re-reading the regs from cover to cover and back again!

[anglo-saxon]

I think I can relate to what the OP is asking. I too just got my CORE completed last year and go into hunting for the first time. I had so many questions and I was not sure where to start. Since that time I have hunted a lot and shot a few things, put about 120 rounds through my .270 and 1000 rounds through my 22. I wanted a gun that I thought would do everything. From Coyotes to Moose, Elk, Deer, the 270 delivers. But range? That's another story. The local Heffley shotting range goes out to 800m. I was with my hunting friend who can hit a 24" square target at 800m with his .300 Weatherby. I had trouble, and never did hit a 48" round circle at 600m. I have since studied ballistics of the 270 and learned a lot about bullet drop vs powder, bullet weight, wind, etc. I am comfortable with my 270 out to about 250 yards. I need more time at the range to try and reach out further, accurately. I have been fortunate and have an understanding wife who tolerates me disappearing for 2 days every weekend to hunt for 3 months of the year. I have been practicing stalking animals. I have been within 20-25 yards of elk, moose, and deer. I have also been 385 yards from a 4 point elk that I really, really wanted to shoot but, passed. I was not comfortable with the shot. You need to learn to be patient, and know your limits of range, and respect that you probably can't make a clean shot out far, and put your gun down. This is responsible hunting. Sometimes I think I need a bigger caliber to reach out farther. Maybe a magnum? Maybe one day, but for now I am having a ton of fun, and my 270 does the job just fine. Just yesterday I had a 2 point buck in my scope at 25 yards. Not the one. I am hoping to find a 4 point this year so I let him go.I will keep at it every weekend, and if I don't find a 4 point? Oh well. It's called hunting not killing. I will have learned a ton more. My 270 already put an elk in my freezer this year, so I am not anxious to take any buck.

In my experience, just buy a common gun with cheap ammo and go shoot lots. If you can't afford the gas and the bullets, maybe you should reconsider hunting until a later time in your life when you can afford it. There will come a time.

Good post. No, you don't need a magnum to reach out further, just more practice and knowledge, and maybe a little coaching from the right person. The .270 is a fast, flat caliber and will do the job. The question is, can we?

[brian]

head up the sea to sky if ur in vancouver, find a dirt road, a good place to shoot ( good full back stop) grab a bunch of cans string them up using the can tabs, and go nuts. The sea to sky has a 1 km no shooting zone from West Van to Squamish. I don't know of any logging roads before Furry Creek that will take you beyond the 1km mark. So be careful if you choose to follow this advice.

Most hunters have more range in their firearms than they can or need to use. I would recommend new shooters to pick a lighter kicking calibers with good off the shelf ammo availability in a rifle that fits and handles well for them. I would worry about maximum effective ranges on game until after you know how to shoot that far. Either way get a rifle and learn to shoot it well.

[JIL_24/7]

My first rifle was a 30-06 two years ago. I am 35. I have no flinch. I have taken two dear with that gun. I now carry a Marlin 1895 GBL 45-70 for most hunts. It is an incredibly accurate rifle thanks to it's slow speed, and it does the trick on any game up to 200 yards. It is short, so it doesn't get hung up on hikes and I have an awesome 1.5-8x Minox scope on it. The whole outfit was under $1000. I would suggest it to anyone despite the ugly responses I am sure I am going to get. I feel it has less kick than the 30-06. Just an option. P.S.- It'll kill a bear.

[keithb7]

Speaking of flinch I thought I may have started flinching at the range but when you pull the trigger on an animal things are totally different. When adrenalin is high and you sight in the kill shot, after you pull the trigger and the animal flops, you may be asking yourself if you even heard the bang or felt the gun kick. When you're ready, you feel very confident and there is no flinching. Heck I don't think my ears were even ringing after I dropped my first kill.

[Polaris]

Thank you again to all for your advise. It was clear from your input that the best thing that can happen for me next is for someone to step forth to offer me a chance to try things out. I have deliberately waited for a while to let someone do just that. Unfortunately only one person did and he wasn't in Vancouver area... So, the main question now is: how do I make friends in the community to get best exposure to hunting, guns, etc. (I would prefer meeting one person or a small group rather than joining a club). For those who have no desire to babysit a city dweller - don't worry! I am far from that. I lived in lml for over 30 years and got outdoors every chance I got, often spending 1-2 weeks on some lake (and no I don't mean at a campground). I got my PAL and read both the CORE manual and the hunting synopsis (however, as I am not planing to kill anything yet, I will take the test later). I enjoy fishing in the bush and did archery a while back, having shot both recurve and compound (so hunting with a bow is no less interesting to me than with a gun). Personality wise, I've been told I am a calm, friendly person that's easy to get along with. Don't worry about some young hot-head either - I am over forty. Therefore, if anyone who read this thread knows someone who would not mind making a new friend and taking me on a day hunt or just to shoot their guns (and/or bows) at a remote locale I would greatly appreciate it.

In the unfortunate event that no one comes through, I'll ask some questions based on the responses thus far.
1. Stocking skills aside, would you agree that a full length 12 gauge can provide accurate fire significantly beyond that of a bow (which I understand is about 40m)?
2. Would you recommend a recurve for a hunting bow for deer and moose (A take down recurve is easier to back pack with but I don't know how many pounds of draw are recommended for a moose and how hard that would be to draw)?
3. As far as rifles go, the two calibers that were recommended the most for a "1st gun" were: 30-06 and 308. What would be the main differences between them?
4. People who recommended starting with a lesser caliber gun (like a 22 or a 270) outnumbered those who suggested going straight for a 30 cal by 3:1. However, it was clear that the main thing to get used to in "stepping up" was the recoil; which would suggest that the more one uses a gun with stronger recoil, the sooner they get used to it. If my goal is to minimize the learning (and spending) curve, how do I reconcile these opposite points of view?
5. If the goal is to have a gun for a survival situation, would you recommend going with an open sight instead of a scope?
6. If buying a used gun (not from a store) how can I assess its accuracy?
7. How easy is it to get a package deal (gun + ammo) from stores like Reliable Gun or Italian Sporting Goods?

Please don't be intimidated by this long post and just answer whatever you feel like. Many thanks! :)

[BCBRAD]

. If buying a used gun (not from a store) how can I assess its accuracy?

Good luck with that, i have bought and sold several rifles that I could not make shoot with the normal reloading / bedding of action regime. Some rifles are noted for better accuracy Like the new Savages, Sakos, Tikkas. The Rem , Win , Ruger can be hit or miss ( pun just snuck up) but you can get a good one.

[Gateholio]

]
T
1. Stocking skills aside, would you agree that a full length 12 gauge can provide accurate fire significantly beyond that of a bow (which I understand is about 40m)?

With slugs, yes. Using shot the range of a shogun is limited though.



2. Would you recommend a recurve for a hunting bow for deer and moose (A take down recurve is easier to back pack with but I don't know how many pounds of draw are recommended for a moose and how hard that would be to draw)?

Compound bows are much easier to learn to use.



3. As far as rifles go, the two calibers that were recommended the most for a "1st gun" were: 30-06 and 308. What would be the main differences between them?

The 30-06 is longer. Not much real world performance difference in factory ammo.



4. People who recommended starting with a lesser caliber gun (like a 22 or a 270) outnumbered those who suggested going straight for a 30 cal by 3:1. However, it was clear that the main thing to get used to in "stepping up" was the recoil; which would suggest that the more one uses a gun with stronger recoil, the sooner they get used to it. If my goal is to minimize the learning (and spending) curve, how do I reconcile these opposite points of view?

A .270 doesn't recoil much less than a 308 or 3006. The .22 is a completely different cartridge. A .22 offers cheap, reconciles practice, but it's not a big game cartridge.




5. If the goal is to have a gun for a survival situation, would you recommend going with an open sight instead of a scope? .

Doesn't really matter, but having iron sights as well as a scope could be beneficial.



6. If buying a used gun (not from a store) how can I assess its accuracy?

You can't without shooting it.



7. How easy is it to get a package deal (gun + ammo) from stores like Reliable Gun or Italian Sporting Goods?

Show up with a PAL and money and they will sell you a gun and ammo. It's what they do.

[SKADman]

300 win mag. Enough said!! Kill them all 0 yards out to a 1000 yards!! Case closed!!! Moosin

Agreed, and it tenderizes the whole blacktail deer with one shot at 50 yds

[SKADman]

I don't doubt that a 30 cal is great for a long shot; the question is, is a 12 gauge (pump action larger mag) better for "defense" if facing a bear or a wolf pack as well as being able to handle deer, moose or game birds at close range.
Polaris, are you snowing us all ? You said you have your PAL that means you already know you can't have more than 3 rounds in a shotgun. So where did the "(pump action larger mag)", come from ?

[The Dawg]

Polaris, are you snowing us all ? You said you have your PAL that means you already know you can't have more than 3 rounds in a shotgun. So where did the "(pump action larger mag)", come from ?


Where do you get that idea? You can have more than 3 in a shotgun

[hunter1947]

I have shot game animals as close as 5 yards and out as far as 400 yards all is to do with your shooting and sure you can put the animal down out at any yardage...

[Gateholio]

Only time you are limited to 3 rounds in a shotgun is when you are actively hunting with the shotgun and the shotgun is loaded with multiple projectiles.

[Darksith]

1. Stocking skills aside, would you agree that a full length 12 gauge can provide accurate fire significantly beyond that of a bow (which I understand is about 40m)?
As Gatehouse said, shotgun w/ slug or even buck shot can shoot out to 100yds, but a skilled archer can reach out to 80yds with the right conditions.


2. Would you recommend a recurve for a hunting bow for deer and moose (A take down recurve is easier to back pack with but I don't know how many pounds of draw are recommended for a moose and how hard that would be to draw)?
I wouldn't recommend a recurve...you are entering a world that is new to you, start with the easy, once you have mastered that then switch to a recurve. It takes much more skill and strength to shoot a recurve effectively. Your range as a beginner will be much shorter with a recurve as well. Don't handicap yourself when you are just starting to learn a new skill.

3. As far as rifles go, the two calibers that were recommended the most for a "1st gun" were: 30-06 and 308. What would be the main differences between them? I wouldn't get a 308, a '06 sure, .270 great. Also other calibers that have been overlooked are the .280 and the 7mm. You can pick up cheap or cheaper ammo for most non mag calibers, and if you find that you enjoy shooting then you reinvest into something that more suites you, but right now you don't know what you are suited for. .308 is less effective than all calibers I just mentioned IMO


4. People who recommended starting with a lesser caliber gun (like a 22 or a 270) outnumbered those who suggested going straight for a 30 cal by 3:1. However, it was clear that the main thing to get used to in "stepping up" was the recoil; which would suggest that the more one uses a gun with stronger recoil, the sooner they get used to it. If my goal is to minimize the learning (and spending) curve, how do I reconcile these opposite points of view? You don't quite get what they mean by recoil. You take a .270 to the range and you shoot 20 rounds, you will feel it in your shoulder the next day but it won't be too bad...you goto the range with a .300 win mag and shoot 20 rounds you won't be moving your arm the next day. You will develop a flinch b/c you will be waiting for the recoil to hurt your shoulder and you will become a shitty shot. Plain and simple. When hunting you don't even thing about the recoil b/c your focused on the animal, but you may have already developed a subconcious twitch. Practice makes perfect, and you don't want to "not want to" practive b/c of pain as a result of it. Shooting is a learned skill, and it takes practice. I shoot on average around 200 rounds a year at the range with my large caliber rifle, it doesnt seem like a lot but it is. Lots of guys shoot 5 shots a year thats it, those people shouldnt be comfortable shooting over 300 yards. I can easily shoot 2k rounds with my .22 in a matter of a couple weeks, thats still not many shots with that caliber. Take their advice, buy a smaller caliber gun, see if you need a .300 win mag or a 308, I bet you will realize you don't.


5. If the goal is to have a gun for a survival situation, would you recommend going with an open sight instead of a scope? What is with you and this idea of a weapon for survival? No offense, but its not an issue, might be in your own head, but thats it. Odds are you aren't gonna be stranded, lost or in need of a weapon for defense in the wilderness. There is a less than .01% chance that you will be attacked by a wild animal, its probably way way less than that even. And if you are worried about getting lost then buy a GPS, and if you have a desire to just go survive in the bush well good luck b/c it takes a lot more than just a gun in hand to survive for real in the wilderness, its not easy, not fun and I personally wouldn't want to attempt it (its not camping thats for sure).


6. If buying a used gun (not from a store) how can I assess its accuracy?
you always shoot a gun before you buy it. You need to examine how it shoots, you need to examine the spent cartridge, but again buy a cheaper first time rifle, you may in fact find out you don't enjoy shooting or don't want to goto the next level with it anyway.

7. How easy is it to get a package deal (gun + ammo) from stores like Reliable Gun or Italian Sporting Goods? Depends on the store, but not too bad, again though you said $ isn't the issue so stop sweating the ammo, odds are you wont be shooting 100rounds a year. If you find you are, you need to learn how to reload. And that again is gonna set you back some serious $ to get into.



Please don't be intimidated by this long post and just answer whatever you feel like. Many thanks! :)

Its great to have big ambition, but don't put the cart ahead of the horse. Buy something smaller (no magnums), join a range, go shoot, learn to love it, if you do you'll be hooked and it will drive you to take the next step. Like I said before you may just find that you would rather shoot 5 shots a year at a range and just use the gun in hand as an excuse to get out there and see what you can do. Its great to get outdoors, hunting season is simply an excuse to do it, with some tasty rewards from time to time. If I were you I would purchase a small large caliber rifle and a .22 and thats all you'll need. Shotguns are more a specialized tool (lots of peeps will disagree with me there, but with the 2 I just mentioned you can shoot grouse and any large game in season in BC. Duck hunting is much more specialized than you realize.

Good luck and have fun out there.

[Singleshotneeded]

40-75 yards for deer and moose, and 100-150 yards for elk has been my hunting experience...as a very
ROUGH average. I find elk more wary than either deer or moose in general. I've no experience with caribou.
I would consider a .308 or 30.06...if you're going into areas where grizzlies are common I'd like a .338 WM
or larger...if recoil bothers you then get a muzzle break installed.

[Singleshotneeded]

Where do you get that idea? You can have more than 3 in a shotgun

Of course you can, I pull the plug out of my 870 after hunting season and it holds 5 in the magazine and one in the tube.
You just have to have the plug in your shotgun limiting it to two shells in the magazine and one in the tube when you're
hunting with it.

[Boner]

308 or 30-06. Sounds like you're over analyzing right now. If you want something that you will still be happy with in a few years(im guessing...) get either of these in a basic Remington SPS with or without a detach mag and a bushnell 3200 3x9 scope. Both of these items are often on sale. My opinion, I often hunt with this setup in 308 it is not short on power for moose if you keep your shots at a reasonable distance for the ammunition you are shooting. Plus these calibers' ammo have good selection, are cheap, and easy to find when you need it in a hurry.

[Freshtracks]

Of course you can, I pull the plug out of my 870 after hunting season and it holds 5 in the magazine and one in the tube.
You just have to have the plug in your shotgun limiting it to two shells in the magazine and one in the tube when you're
hunting with it.

Reread your reg's everyone ....

pg. - 18 ... top ... Firearms requirements. I believe the 3 shot max capacity is restricted to upland and migratory birds only.

[kelmore]

Darksith, really you wouldn't get a 308 but 30 06 for sure ?

[2704u]

For a new hunter the answer would be to pick a rifle that fits and caliber that you are comfortable shooting, practice with it and learn to stalk game effectively. A proper caliber, be it a 303 Brit, 308, 3006 or 300 win mag will all put meat in the freezer at their given working ranges, with practice. It's not always about technology but usually skill.

Just my $.02

[Gateholio]

Reread your reg's everyone ....

pg. - 18 ... top ... Firearms requirements. I believe the 3 shot max capacity is restricted to upland and migratory birds only.

It is shotguns with shot. If you are hunting deer with buckshot, the 2+1 rule is still in effect. Using slugs, the plug can be removed.

[WaderGator]

If you have a 12 gauge and a 30-06 in the safe you can't go wrong in these parts. Find something comfortable in both cases, buy a a whack of ammo and you're off to the races. remember practice makes perfect!

[SKADman]

Where do you get that idea? You can have more than 3 in a shotgun

He specifically mentioned "game birds". Some people have told me to read the reg's. I say to them, read the post.

[SKADman]

Reread your reg's everyone ....

pg. - 18 ... top ... Firearms requirements. I believe the 3 shot max capacity is restricted to upland and migratory birds only.

Guess again, or take your own advice and read the reg's yourself. It also applies to deer when multiple pellets are used.

[Polaris]

Again, thank you for all the advise. 2 questions: Would you recommend a detachable magazine, a built in one or a single cartridge capacity bolt action rifle? If recoil is such an issue even just for a 30-06, what's the downside to having a muzzle break?

[Polaris]

308 or 30-06... get either of these in a basic Remington SPS. Plus these calibers' ammo are cheap What is "SPS"? Do you consider a $1/shot cheap or can you suggest where ammo of these calibers can be had for much less? Since 308 is a military cal and with the availability of surplus ammo, would a 30-06 generally be considered a more expensive gun to "operate"?

[Jack Russell]

I like detachable mags, but it depends on what rifle you get if the gun will come with a detach. mag.

Muzzle breaks lessen recoil, but are loud when fired (very loud!). A good fitting 30.06 will not buck much. With practice you will accept it easily. When shooting in a hunting situation, you won't even feel it as you will be so focussed on making a good clean shot.

[Gateholio]

Easiest to operate are hinged floorplates and detachable magazines. I prefer the floorplate.

Downside to muzzle brakes is that they are loud and with today's bullets, unnecessary. If the recoil is too much for you, step down in cartridge and step up up to a premium bullet.

$1 a shot for a center fire rifle is pretty cheap. .30-06 might be a bit more $$ to operate. .308 has the benefit of buying a case of cheap surplus for practice. Since there is very little practical difference between the two, I'd go .308 for ammo pricing.

[mikeman20]

.308 will be a couple dollars per box of 20 cheaper.

Look into a savage rifle, i hear these days they are quite accurate.

[The Dude]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Polaris http://huntingbc.ca/forum/images/shades_of_green/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1217194#post1217194)
I don't doubt that a 30 cal is great for a long shot; .



Then you'd be wrong.

From all your speculating, you sound like a city boy with little or no knowledge or experience in either firearms, the bush, or hunting. My suggestion to you is:

1. Learn to shoot.

2. Learn about hunting and about the animals you want to hunt (have you completed your hunter CORE) training? If not, you need to.

3. Get out to the bush as much as possble and just get used to it (long before you decide to go after a critter).

4. Get to know one or two experienced and relaible hunters, if you can, who can give you advice or maybe even take you on a day hunt or two.

5. Be calm, take your time, and expect some dissappointment in the early stages of your quest. Understand, though, that every positive thing you do to learn, or become better equipped, is a positive thing. We all have to start somewhere.

There aren't legions of nasty beasties waiting to gobble you up out there, so you don't need a special firearm for survival. An average, all-round hunting rifle of a moderate caliber will suffice. There are a few guys on here who hunt alone, incl. me. Stop bellyaching about wolves and bear, etc.; it's wasted energy.

Good luck.

Edit: I didn't see your last post before I posted this. Good attitude shown in that. Well done. You're already on the right track. There's a wealth of info on this excellent site and a lot of really decent folk, with tons of nowledge and experience. You can't go wrong. A reasonable goal would be to plan to get out on a spring bear hunt in 2013 and in the mean time get your CORE, buy a rifle and get some training/practice, and get out into the bush a whole bunch, practicing looking for game, etc, etc. Oh, and reading and re-reading the regs from cover to cover and back again!

What's wrong with .308? Harsh post, glad you pulled it back, but WTF Buddy? The guy's new. Chill, FFS.

[Polaris]

1. Is a 308 in any practical sense worse than a 30-06 at close range?
2. If buying a used 308 and putting it to the test, what accuracy and at what range would define a good rifle?
3. "New" Savage is recommended often. After what year and/or what Savage models are considered to be of "higher" accuracy?
4. What would be the characteristics of a reasonable scope for the above rifle (ie: enough to do the job well without going overboard)?
5. If getting a 22 primarily as a "training" rifle, would you recommend bolt action or semiautomatic?
6. What prices would be fair for above used items in good condition?
7. If muzzle breaks are loud and silencers illegal, is there a muzzle break/sound suppression system that would make a rifle "quieter" but not fully "silent" thus remaining legal?

[howa1500]

Ah the much debated "one gun" question.
for hunting, personal defence, apocalypse, you can't beat .308 there will be plenty of ammo around. The other great choice is 30-06. It depends also on your comfort of recoil. If you are recoil shy then stick with .308

a training .22 in the perfect world would be identical to your primary rifle, so as you can train on loading, unloading, chambering...

A good .308 should be sub-moa (google it)