CO question ( funny story to come after)

[blackford]

so..
My question is can a CO open the hatch of back door of a vehicle without asking if they can take a look or open it....

[doubled]

Nobody has the right to unless they get permission or have PROBABLE cause to look.

[Philcott]

My guess is, if they have just cause, they can. Just a guess though

[Spy]

Ok don't keep us hanging ! Why ?

[juiceterboost]

If they have just cause they can indeed open and search the vehicle. Some examples are blood, a open beer can in plain sight, an incorrectly punched tag is also just cause. If the tag is punched incorrectly it would indicate a lesser understanding of the regs and such. However in all of my experiences the CO's will have a look at your license and if your open and forthright with them and not antagonistic they will generally take what you say at face value, and merely check your license, and ask if your firearm is infact unloaded. They may ask to see it if the bolt or action is closed as they cannot see for certain that it is in fact unloaded.

[f350ps]

They can do whatever they want! K

[Walking Buffalo]

Nobody has the right to unless they get permission or have PROBABLE cause to look.

As simple as this. ^^^

[Jagermeister]

I believe under the provincial police act, C/Os have the same authority as the RCMP. This dates back prior to 1952 when we had a provincial police force, game wardens had the same powers.
Most times, C/Os are not interested in infractions that are not related to fish and wildlife issues simply because they are not up to CCC or MVA issues.
So, as far as I know, the C/O has the right under probable cause.
Of course, I stand to be corrected.

[Steve W]

These are excerpts from the Wildlife Act SBC:

Entering premises

89 (1) For the purpose of ensuring that this Act and the regulations are being complied with, an officer may enter and inspect any premises or enclosure in which live wildlife or live fish is kept but, at the request of the owner or occupier, the officer must produce proof of identity.
(2) Despite the Trespass Act, an officer exercising duties under this Act may enter any land, whether enclosed or not but, at the request of the owner or occupier of the land, the officer must produce proof of identity.

Inspection of firearms

90 (1) A person, when requested to do so, for the purposes of this Act or the Firearm Act, by a conservation officer or constable, must immediately produce and permit inspection of a firearm in his or her possession.
(2) A conservation officer or constable may, for the purposes of this Act or the Firearm Act, inspect a firearm found in or on a vehicle or boat.

Inspection of camps

91 An officer may inspect a camp occupied by a hunter or angler.

Search warrants

92 On information in the prescribed form and on oath that there is reasonable ground to believe that an animal or fish, or a portion of an animal or fish, killed, taken or possessed in violation of this Act or the regulations, or about to be illegally exported, is located in or on a building or premises, a justice may by a warrant authorize and direct a conservation officer or constable to enter and search the building or premises and to seize and remove an animal or fish, or a portion of it, found, and it may be disposed of as provided in this Act.

Search without warrant

93 A conservation officer or constable may, without a warrant,
(a) search a person whom he or she believes on reasonable grounds has in his or her possession any wildlife or fish killed, taken or possessed in violation of this Act or the regulations, or about to be illegally exported,
(b) stop and search a motor vehicle, private or chartered aircraft, boat or other conveyance, in or on which he or she believes on reasonable grounds that wildlife or fish is being carried by a person, and
(c) enter and search a shop, public market, storehouse, garage, restaurant, hotel, eating house or camp, in or on which he or she believes on reasonable grounds that wildlife or fish is located.

Seizure

94 (1) A conservation officer or constable may seize wildlife or fish or parts of either wildlife or fish, anything referred to in paragraph (b) and anything found in, on or about a place, building or premises, or in the possession of a person, that might afford evidence of the commission of an offence under this Act, if the conservation officer or constable
(a) finds in the possession of a person, or in, on or about a place or thing referred to in section 93, wildlife or fish that the conservation officer or constable believes on reasonable grounds was killed, taken or possessed in violation of this Act, or is about to be illegally exported, or
(b) finds firearms, ammunition, decoys, traps, fishing rods or other devices or materials, implements or appliances for hunting or trapping wildlife or for catching fish, that the conservation officer or constable believes on reasonable grounds were held, kept or used for or in connection with a violation of this Act.
(2) A conservation officer may seize wildlife or fish, or parts of either wildlife or fish, in a person's possession if the conservation officer believes on reasonable grounds that the right of property in that wildlife is with the government or remains in the government.
(3) Sections 23 to 24.2 of the Offence Act do not apply in respect of wildlife or fish, or parts of either wildlife or fish, seized under this Act.

Officers empowered to stop vehicles

95 (1) An officer may, for the purposes of this Act, stop a motor vehicle, private or chartered aircraft or boat or other vehicle to determine whether or not the occupants of the vehicle have been hunting, trapping or angling, and to obtain information about wildlife or game fish possessed by them.
(2) A person commits an offence under subsection (1) if the person
(a) fails to stop,
(b) fails to identify himself or herself when requested to do so by the officer,
(c) refuses to give information respecting hunting or fishing, or
(d) being the driver or operator of a motor vehicle, in or on which there is wildlife or game fish or an article or device that may be used for hunting, trapping or fishing, fails, refuses or neglects to stop his or her motor vehicle when signalled or requested to stop by an officer who is in his or her uniform of office or displays his or her official badge.

[bowhunterbruce]

that completely sums it up steve w, in other words, if a CO wants to do any inspection ,he is by law intiled to if there is reason to believe that you have been hunting or fishing, period. now about that funny story

[endtimerwithabow]

They can do whatever they want! K

no they cant they have rules they have to obey just like rcmp. but that doesnt stop em from trin

[huntcoop]

They can do whatever they want! K

Yup, they along with the Muni's and Mountie's think they are one level below the power of god.

[Jimmy4x4]

so..
My question is can a CO open the hatch of back door of a vehicle without asking if they can take a look or open it....

Yes they can. Steve W posted the relevant sections of the law for all you wannabe Perry Masons to read.

[blackford]

Funny story coming tonight

[sae]

If a co touches your firearm without you handing it to him all charges will be dropped. I got a full apology from the senior co at a road block because the rookie reached in and grabbed my gun, I started screaming at him to let the f go because he was trying to drag a wood stock against my truck door through my window .so no they can't do what they want,

[ruger#1]

Funny story coming tonight I hope they didn't find your blow up doll, You use at your hunting camp.

[finngun]

no shooting allowed 1 hour after dark:-D:mrgreen:

[Tikka270]

I hope they didn't find your blow up doll, You use at your hunting camp.

I think it was wild justice?..... They pulled over a guy with dildos in EVERY pocket! He was back in the mountains at night and that's what was on him. I hope it wasn't "funny" like that!

[Barracuda]

i think there was also one down the back of his pants :shock:

[saltybuck]

Oh here we go again! Another thread goin for the gutter!!

[Jagermeister]

You see this?

93 A conservation officer or constable may, without a warrant,
(a) search a person whom he or she believes on reasonable grounds has in his or her possession any wildlife or fish killed, taken or possessed in violation of this Act or the regulations, or about to be illegally exported,
(b) stop and search a motor vehicle, private or chartered aircraft, boat or other conveyance, in or on which he or she believes on reasonable grounds that wildlife or fish is being carried by a person, and
(c) enter and search a shop, public market, storehouse, garage, restaurant, hotel, eating house or camp, in or on which he or she believes on reasonable grounds that wildlife or fish is located.


Without a warrant, any evidence seized will most likely be inadmissible in court if it has been seized in a private shop, storehouse or garage. Like the police, he has to apply for a warrant even if it is late at night. Public markets, restaurants, hotels, eating house and camps are not private property and are open to search and seizure.

[Grumpa Joe]

To get back on topic, here is your answer from a Sargeant in a Lower Mainland police force.(my bro)

I asked him "can they (COs) just open a vehicle's trunk without permission if they do not have a stated probable cause?"

His answer follows.

Not really... They could but any evidence would be thrown out in court as an illegal search and seizure. We often do this if we believe an illegal gun is in the car, we can't charge but we get the gun. If there was an arrest for a lawful purpose, then the whole car can be searched, this is known as search subsequent to lawful arrest. They can ask you to open it but you don't have to though.

Now you know. Now what about that funny story?

[Schmaus]

K seriously, its "tonight" now. Where's the story :)

[blackford]

ok...

opening day for any buck... a car load of us went buck hunting but it was also the pre stag for a buddy who is getting hitched. They encounter a CO along the way and managed to keep it together with no jokes. Now... they played a game that the first person that went to bed had to carry a massive dildo on the car dash board while hunting the next day... and when i say massive it in no way could actually be used.... its was like your right arm from the shoulder down...

the CO stops them on the way home as asks what they shot. They said nothing just grouse. The CO then opens the hatch of the car and stuff falls out of the car on the logging road. well burried in the stuff was the massive dildo... it apparently got really awkward and it was instantly " have a good day"

not to the poachers out there... carry a massive dildo and you wont get charged..lol

[The Dude]

I don't think I wanna hunt with you guys.......

[180grainer]

That's hilarious.......I'm sure that CO was thinking you guys were more than hunting buddies....

[ACE]

If a CO touches your firearm without you handing it to him all charges will be dropped. I got a full apology from the senior CO at a road block because the rookie reached in and grabbed my gun, I started screaming at him to let the f go because he was trying to drag a wood stock against my truck door through my window, so no, they can't do what they want,
Were you at Crooked Lake in the Horsefly area?
Same thing happened to me there. Antagonistic conservation officer........ what a dickhead!

[goatdancer]

You see this?

Without a warrant, any evidence seized will most likely be inadmissible in court if it has been seized in a private shop, storehouse or garage. Like the police, he has to apply for a warrant even if it is late at night. Public markets, restaurants, hotels, eating house and camps are not private property and are open to search and seizure.

Restaurants, hotels, eating houses are private property.

[Steve W]

You see this?

Without a warrant, any evidence seized will most likely be inadmissible in court if it has been seized in a private shop, storehouse or garage. Like the police, he has to apply for a warrant even if it is late at night. Public markets, restaurants, hotels, eating house and camps are not private property and are open to search and seizure.

There is a provision for what is called "Exigent Searchs":

Principles
When you suspect that life or serious bodily harm is threatened and only immediate action will provide protection, privacy rights become secondary.
When you believe that evidence will be lost or destroyed, and only immediate action will preserve it, then you can violate privacy to preserve the evidence. s. 487.11 (http://www.canlii.org/ca/sta/c-46/sec487.11.html)
Tips for Police
Document the information which you had at the time of the warrantless search, and the purpose for which you searched. Warrantless searches attract vigorous judicial scrutiny because it is the court’s job to supervise all police powers. If you search without a warrant, you can expect many questions afterwards.

These powers depend upon the existence of an emergency. When the emergency is over, you must obtain judicial authority for any further violations of privacy. If you enter to preserve life, and discover evidence of an offence, you should obtain a search warrant before searching for more evidence.

[Steve W]

If a co touches your firearm without you handing it to him all charges will be dropped. I got a full apology from the senior co at a road block because the rookie reached in and grabbed my gun, I started screaming at him to let the f go because he was trying to drag a wood stock against my truck door through my window .so no they can't do what they want,

You're not guite correct here. Had you firearm been loaded you most likely would have been charged. The rough handling of your firearm by the rookie is not acceptable, but is not a get out of jail free card eiher.

From the Firearms Act SBC:

Search without warrant4 Without a warrant, a conservation officer or peace officer may do one or more of the following:
(a) search a person the conservation officer or peace officer suspects of possessing a firearm in contravention of this Act;
(b) stop and search a conveyance mentioned in section 9 in or on which the conservation officer or peace officer suspects a firearm is being carried in contravention of this Act;
(c) seize the firearm, and dispose of it under this Act.

.9 (1) Unless authorized by the regulations or a permit, a person must not discharge, carry or have in the person's possession, in or on a railway car, hand car or other vehicle on a railway, or in or on a motor vehicle, wagon, sleigh, aircraft, bicycle or other conveyance, a firearm containing live ammunition in its breech or in its magazine.

[ruger#1]

ok...

opening day for any buck... a car load of us went buck hunting but it was also the pre stag for a buddy who is getting hitched. They encounter a CO along the way and managed to keep it together with no jokes. Now... they played a game that the first person that went to bed had to carry a massive dildo on the car dash board while hunting the next day... and when i say massive it in no way could actually be used.... its was like your right arm from the shoulder down...

the CO stops them on the way home as asks what they shot. They said nothing just grouse. The CO then opens the hatch of the car and stuff falls out of the car on the logging road. well burried in the stuff was the massive dildo... it apparently got really awkward and it was instantly " have a good day"

not to the poachers out there... carry a massive dildo and you wont get charged..lol Was the dildo loaded? If it was he could be charged.

[frenchbar]

stags. hatches.. back doors.. giant dildos ..sounds like a hunt to avoid..lol

[edgar11]

The key wording is "reasonable grounds". If, in his report, he can justify his actions its all good. If not, then he has to answer to his superior and the courts.

[swampthing]

While heading north in august, I pulled into the petro at Kitwanga for fuel. There were 2 COs there. They came over to see me and asked if I was hunting. Told them I was on my way. They asked to see licenses and rifles, which I produced. One CO took pictures of my license, my truck and my license plate. Never had one do that before.

[Peter Pepper]

While heading north in august, I pulled into the petro at Kitwanga for fuel. There were 2 COs there. They came over to see me and asked if I was hunting. Told them I was on my way. They asked to see licenses and rifles, which I produced. One CO took pictures of my license, my truck and my license plate. Never had one do that before.

You should have taken a few pics of them. Then wished them a good day.

[sae]

I asked the last co I was checked by about rifle inspection , his words , you open your firearm in front of me to prove it is unloaded that way in court there is no question that I as an officer messed with your firearm , or you take it out of your vehicle you open the action and hand it to me,
i always get out at an inspection station and lock my doors, I don't need them finding my camp doll .
with the co's carrying I phones they can send your info to all other co's instantly

[skid]

While heading north in august, I pulled into the petro at Kitwanga for fuel. There were 2 COs there. They came over to see me and asked if I was hunting. Told them I was on my way. They asked to see licenses and rifles, which I produced. One CO took pictures of my license, my truck and my license plate. Never had one do that before.
I know exactly which 2 CO they we're, I've had a similar run in with them and so have a few friends.

[sawmill]

[QUOTE=ACE;1212858]Were you at Crooked Lake in the Horsefly area?
Broke Back Mountain area I think.

[swampthing]

I know exactly which 2 CO they we're, I've had a similar run in with them and so have a few friends.

They were good guys. We talked hunting, guns and calibers. They were younger guys. The picture thing did seem strange to me.

[Steve W]

COs have had technical upgrades in the past couple of years. The use of I-phones and in-truck computers are a couple. Taking pictures during a check helps with the recording of information a CO may need later without writing it all down in a notebook. You can imagine covering a large part of BC and trying to keep track of who you saw where and what animals and tags they had. It helps weeks/months later when you're trying to sort out who did what a long after it's happened. Witnesses are a lot easier to find if you have some key information.

[Spokerider]

While heading north in august, I pulled into the petro at Kitwanga for fuel. There were 2 COs there. They came over to see me and asked if I was hunting. Told them I was on my way. They asked to see licenses and rifles, which I produced. One CO took pictures of my license, my truck and my license plate. Never had one do that before.


You are essentially, "on the radar" now, as a hunter and as a possible *future* offender.
Expect sporadic visits and or drop-ins, just because they can.

[Hook or Bullet]

Thanks Steve now we know.

[BCHunterTV]

You are essentially, "on the radar" now, as a hunter and as a possible *future* offender.
Expect sporadic visits and or drop-ins, just because they can.


your so right! his name was flagged and they wanna see what your driving...etc


My suggestion is if you think your getting the run around whip out your cell phone/camera and video the interaction...

Over the years ive had a few nice run ins with co's, but had a few that now have left a bad taste in my mouth. And some that make me laugh!


my question is what are our personal rights? I think that should be clear...it seems that we dont have any and we gotta bend over and take what ever they wanna do....


Individuals in Canada have a right under section 8 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to be free from unreasonable searches and unreasonable seizures of their property and their personal information. Section 8 says: Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.


So wouldn't my Chartered rights be violated if a Co decided to seach my vehicle just because i was passing through the mnt and had no sign of blood on me or my vehicle???

[daywalker]

There does not need to be any blood or hair kicking around for it too be reasonable to conduct a search. simply having your hunting regs sitting out or ammo in the console anything to suggest that you are or were hunting is good enough. It goes back to the wildlife act when it comes to powers of search and seizure. This also goes back to common law and even to this day all wildlife is still considered property of the queen or government however you want to put it. That is why they can get away with what seems to be larger powers of search and seizure. The Federal Fisheries Act is a even more powerfull piece of legislation when it comes to this topic.

[BCHunterTV]

I've been told if your not hunting they have no right to check you?? Camo or a rifle doesn't mean your hunting

[Sofa King]

no they cant they have rules they have to obey just like rcmp. but that doesnt stop em from trin

this.
there's a reason they often have a mountie with them at many road-checks, because they can't enforce everything.

i was told a story from a guy who was out at the back end of a cut-block sitting and watching for deer.
his truck was visible to him, parked where the road dead-ended.
he saw a truck come up the road, so he started watching through his binos.
it was a CO.
the CO stopped behind his truck, and he watched him get out and walk up to his truck.
he then proceeded to open the door and start going through his stuff.
the guy said he then let a shot go, not at the CO, but just to announce that someone was present.
i think he said the CO then left, but he saw him later in the day and asked him about what he was doing.
he responded, saying he was checking for loaded weapons.??
there is no probable cause there.
but, just like the RC's, they can pretty much do as they choose.
they'll win every time if taken to court pretty much.

same as their roadblocks at the bottom of forestry roads.
what if you are up there mountain-biking or even just out for a scenic drive.
they shouldn't have the right to hold you up and scrutinize you with endless questions.
if you are clearly not a hunter, you should be whisked through.

[BCHunterTV]

Here is a good question.. Do you need to be present if a co decides to search your vehicle day if your off on a hike??



I had a CO take my camera to upload my pictures onto his computer in his truck. I was basically told to sit in my truck and wait til he's done... Then noticed me and my kids were getting our pictures taken! For what??? lol

thats why I now record any interactions to make sure everything is done by the book now.

[daywalker]

I think that one is a pretty big grey area. The legislation states they can search on reasonable grounds and says nothing about the person being there. However if the CO was just doing it on a hunch or wild goose chase then not too sure how that would play out.

[bucket]

[QUOTE=ACE;1212858]Were you at Crooked Lake in the Horsefly area?
Broke Back Mountain area I think.

LOL that's rich ^^

[edgar11]

There has to be "reasonable grounds" that you are commiting an infraction not that you are simply "hunting". You are not doing anything wrong when you are abiding by the rules and regulations. If he just wants to "nose around" with your stuff its harassment and we are protected by the law for that kind of conduct. Its like if someone wanted to stop you for shoplifting. If the person did not see you take anything they cannot stop you just because you look suspicious. You basically need to show your identification and show your rifle is NOT loaded and thats it. If during this time, he gains more information and finds reasonable grounds to go further than thats another story.

[rocksteady]

So whatever happened to the "dong"...????

Was it ever scored???
Was it field dressed and consumed???
Was it "mounted" over a fireplace???
Who did the "mount"??
Did it look lifelike, after being taxidermied???