Griz Attack. Poor Bugger...

[Deeboe]

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Alaskan+survives+grizzly+attack+airlifted+Vancouve r+hospital/7279178/story.html

[flyboy]

Holy cow, that has to be one of the toughest guys on the planet if he got out of there missing his lower jaw????????????

[BearStump]

:shock::shock::shock::shock:ouch!!

[Legi0n]

and yet wilderness carry licenses are more and more difficult to obtain.

[Spy]

That's terrible I hope the guy recovers ! Wow tough guy is an understatement !!!

[Lozzie]

From the sounds of it he probably didn't even have a chance to react. Very lucky someone was driving by the time he made it to the road, it probably saved his life. Does make me wonder if a shotgun loaded with bird shot, a air horn or bear spray would have any effect? Very few Grizzlies on the island so I've got no clue.

[Grousedaddy]

All bird shot is going to do is piss him / her off even more better off with slug/ buckshot combination in your shotty. As for spray and a horn i wouldnt bet my life on it imo

[Spy]

From the sounds of it he probably didn't even have a chance to react. Very lucky someone was driving by the time he made it to the road, it probably saved his life. Does make me wonder if a shotgun loaded with bird shot, a air horn or bear spray would have any effect? Very few Grizzlies on the island so I've got no clue.
The only thing that would work in his situation would have been a side arm of sorts ! 45,44,357,9mm in a holster,easy access being key ! I wonder how a tazer would work ! All ilegal to carry in BC another law that should be "shot"down, hey if it saves one life or mauling it would be worth it !

[.330 Dakota]

Can you not get a ATC if you have a prospectors license??

[bucket]

Don't think a 9mm is going to do much against a Grizz ?


The only thing that would work in his situation would have been a side arm of sorts ! 45,44,357,9mm in a holster,easy access being key ! I wonder how a tazer would work ! All ilegal to carry in BC another law that should be "shot"down, hey if it saves one life or mauling it would be worth it !

[Spy]

Don't think a 9mm is going to do much against a Grizz ?
Loaded with hollowpoints you bet ja it would leave a lasting impression & a lot better than your bare hands !

[Grousedaddy]

Id feel confident my glock loaded with 10, 40 s&w hollow points would deter a bear and its alot faster then my pump 12g but sadly we arent aloud that in Canada.....

[Spy]

Id feel confident my glock loaded with 10, 40 s&w hollow points would deter a bear and its alot faster then my pump 12g but sadly we arent aloud that in Canada.....
When the bear is already on top of you or within a foot or two deadly, & if not you know the attack is over !
Its bear attacks like this and many more that could change the law ! Like I said before "if it saves one life life!" Now where have I heard that statement before!

[Grousedaddy]

Ya it would be a very close encounter but like you said alot better then my fist would do....

[gitnadoix]

I friend of mine was mauled by a grizzly many years ago while tending his trapline......and while tending his trapline he used to carry a 44 MAG in a shoulder holster, so in the hospital when my friend asked him did you get any shots off at all.......the response was " when that bear exploded out of the bush not only did I not have time to draw it, I did not even have time to remember I owned a gun........

We all like to think we are Clint Eastwood and would calmly just pull our revolvers and fan the hammer then twirl it back into its holster and continue eating our lunch.......

Studies into bear attacks in alaska have shown that those compitent with a fire arm are 75 % successfull in fending off bear attacks......those with bear spray 90% ......

[killman]

I would like it to be my choice....Me I'd take my chances with the lead over peppers. Time to lobby for some changes? Wilderness carry permits to save lives?

[Grousedaddy]

I agree killman

[bucket]

I'd love to be able to carry a sidearm while bow hunting, just sayin i'd pack heavier than a 9 :-P

[Grousedaddy]

Ya i would pack heavier then a 9mm aswell... Id go with a 10mm glock because i think a revolver would be to slow and only holds 6. I hope oneday this will be aloud !!

[Darksith]

I think you are all nuts hehe. More guns are not the answer to a problem that occurs once every 11 years at the most according to the article. Im from that area and there are a pile of G bears on the salmon rivers around there. I doubt the guy would of had an opportunity to draw his gun let alone use it, just like someone said above. Also I question the merrits of the "alaskan study". Define the bear attack, my guess is its defined as an aggressive bear, not actually a bear on top of you. Once the bear gets in that close your pretty much praying for it to go away rather than how to get it off of you. And before I get slammed, yes there have been attacks where people have been able to draw knives, spray guns etc and it has worked, but I also wonder how many people who were carrying never got the chance to draw whatever they had on them. I bet its lob sided on the no chance to draw side.

more guns = following the US and their injuries due to firearms = bad IMO.

[killman]

I think you are all nuts hehe. More guns are not the answer to a problem that occurs once every 11 years at the most according to the article. Im from that area and there are a pile of G bears on the salmon rivers around there. I doubt the guy would of had an opportunity to draw his gun let alone use it, just like someone said above. Also I question the merrits of the "alaskan study". Define the bear attack, my guess is its defined as an aggressive bear, not actually a bear on top of you. Once the bear gets in that close your pretty much praying for it to go away rather than how to get it off of you. And before I get slammed, yes there have been attacks where people have been able to draw knives, spray guns etc and it has worked, but I also wonder how many people who were carrying never got the chance to draw whatever they had on them. I bet its lob sided on the no chance to draw side.

more guns = following the US and their injuries due to firearms = bad IMO.

Who invited this guy out???? ;)

[Grousedaddy]

The antis haha doesnt think we should be alound handguns in the bush !! Guns dont kill ppl , ppl kill ppl

[Hoof]

I would say a 9 is better then a fishing rod any day :shock:

[gitnadoix]

While I have no probs what so ever with people at least having the choice choice what they carry to defend themselves.......but to see what you really think is gonna work best for ya get a gun render it inoperable (ie take out the cylinder etc) and holster it ,,,,then have a friend stand 30 feet away and have them kick a big fitness/pilates ball at your head with out warning and while you have a fishing rod or bow in your hand........then try and first empty your hand and then draw your gun and get a few shots off before it nocks ya off yer feet......from those bear attack events that I have read about there seems to be a common thread.....the bear came outa no where and startled the hunter/hiker/fisher/worker etc.....what ever you decide to carry it is only gonna be luck if you get to use it the day you need it .....and the bear will decide if you are gonna have any luck....

Its like

[DJ would rather be huntin]

Should be my choice. I'm licensed to own a handgun and firmly believe I should be able to take it into the bush. Some of these posts are right...not much chance at all of drawing on a bear looking to do you harm but I'll take my chances. More guns are not a problem, if I was going to use my 44 mag for no good it is unlikely it would be in the middle of the woods and to think so is ridiculous. And, besides do you really think a auth to transport keeps honest firearms owners from goin on a shooting spree? Criminals use firearms to commit crimes, hunters use firearms to harvest legal game animals and very, very rarely for self protection. Sorry to open a can of worms here. Hopefully that poor ******* is ok.

[Legi0n]

then try and first empty your hand and then draw your gun and get a few shots off before it nocks ya off yer feet......from those bear attack events that I have read about there seems to be a common thread.....the bear came outa no where and startled the hunter/hiker/fisher/worker etc.....what ever you decide to carry it is only gonna be luck if you get to use it the day you need it .....and the bear will decide if you are gonna have any luck....

while I've never been in such a posture, I think once the big bear is on top of you, there's still a chance to draw your pistol and save your life.
I could be wrong but way back in the military we were told so.

[Spy]

I once saw a hunting video, where this wounded leopard takes the American hunter right off this huge rock he was standing on! The two tumble off the rock &out off view and all you hear in the back round is
5 shots & then the hunter comes into view pistol in hand! Dead
leopard,hunter alive ! A side arm is the perfect weapon for a sudden attack where you don't have a chance to react quickly !

[.330 Dakota]

Who invited this guy out???? ;)

Told you they were lurking here...

[Spy]

Told you they were lurking here...
X2 They are everywhere join date & low post counts are normally a sign ! Although I think gitnadoix does hunt I have never seen pics or story of a hunt posted !

[jhausner]

While I have no probs what so ever with people at least having the choice choice what they carry to defend themselves.......but to see what you really think is gonna work best for ya get a gun render it inoperable (ie take out the cylinder etc) and holster it ,,,,then have a friend stand 30 feet away and have them kick a big fitness/pilates ball at your head with out warning and while you have a fishing rod or bow in your hand........then try and first empty your hand and then draw your gun and get a few shots off before it nocks ya off yer feet......from those bear attack events that I have read about there seems to be a common thread.....the bear came outa no where and startled the hunter/hiker/fisher/worker etc.....what ever you decide to carry it is only gonna be luck if you get to use it the day you need it .....and the bear will decide if you are gonna have any luck....

Its like

I agree with gitnadoix on this. Those that want to carry honestly don't want to because it will be safer, they want to because they want to. It's the choice rather than reality and things like this are just a reason to jump up and down and try to get the law changes. In reality though if we're all honest, it wouldn't make a difference if you were carrying a missile launcher, if a bear is within 15-30 feet of you and has the jump aka sees you before you see them and they decide to go after you, you have _0_ chance. 0. Doesn't matter if you're facing them empty hands. Bears are a lot faster than you think and even if you got a shot off the odds of hitting the bear with all that fear and adrenaline are next to nill. I train with hand guns quite often and am certified with holsters and I'd be pressed to even get my hand down to my hand gun in the time a bear can close 30 feet at full speed and run me over like a truck.

Remember a bear can run a 100 yard dash in about 6 seconds. The fastest human on the planet can do it in 9.58 seconds. That means the average Bear can close a 30 foot distance in 3 seconds or less. Now again remember, you did not see the bear but they saw you first. It takes the average person 2 seconds to react to a shock situation. That means you have about 1 second to draw your gun, aim, and fire.

Good luck.

Again I'm all for having the choice to train and then carry in the bush, especially for bow hunters who I feel are more vulnerable since 1) they don't have a gun and 2) the very nature of bow hunting is an attempt at stealth meaning you're more at risk of startling a bear in the bush. But don't forget the reality here. The issue is if you jump up and down arguing to carry hand guns and you use an unrealistic example like this to make your argument, it is easy for the government to just shrug you off. In order to change laws you have to make a good point and I'd much rather see people arguing my last point about the vulnerability of bow hunters than the fending off grizzly bears with Glocks.

How about the argument, if a remote worker can carry a hand gun because their "hands are full" with tools, why can't a fisherman in remote areas carry a hand gun because their "hands are full" with a tackle box, fishing rods, and BEAR FOOD (aka fish)? That's a more reasonable argument to me.

Still wouldn't change this specific situation though.

[jhausner]

I once saw a hunting video, where this wounded leopard takes the American hunter right off this huge rock he was standing on! The two tumble off the rock &out off view and all you hear in the back round is
5 shots & then the hunter comes into view pistol in hand! Dead
leopard,hunter alive ! A side arm is the perfect weapon for a sudden attack where you don't have a chance to react quickly !

And you make that argument to government officials and they snicker and think those of us really trying to change the law to carry hand guns, are crack pots. You're seriously comparing a 150 lbs Cat to a 4-800 lbs Grizzly? Seriously? Completely different animals. It's like comparing being charged by a Whitetail Deer to being charged by a Cow Moose. Do you think the outcome would be the same?

And if you think it's the same, watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNGGbozilko and then multiply that by 4-8 times. Same deal with a bear. A grizzly tackles you and your head will be off your body before you can say Uncle. Remember, in 3 seconds or less the Grizzly in the original post took the guy's JAW OFF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChP3qXPkAnQ&feature=related Grizzly vs Truck. Now replace truck with you.

[Spy]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/09/24/bc-grizzly-attack-fort-nelson.html
Well it seems he managed to get off 2 that's 2 shots with a shot gun, which IMHO saved his life !
So I think this proves a few on this board wrong !
Jhausner to answer your question, Yes I wouldI have a better chance against a grizz then leopard !

[jhausner]

Then you didn't read what I said. Anyone that thinks a gun can protect them against a Grizzly is a fool. May sound contradictory but it is the mentality that you're invulnerable in the bush walking around carrying a hand gun which is just why you'd more than honestly have an issue. It's just like saying "I'm an amazing driver so I can avoid all car accidents." The reality is, every situation is different. This guy is lucky to have been able to get his shot gun off.

Can a gun protect you against a Grizzly? Absolutely. Given the right circumsance. Given the right circumstance you can survive falling out of a plane without a parachute. People have done that. But do you jump up and down saying "We should ALL jump out without parachutes because you CAN survive!!"? No. Because you know how silly that argument is. Same with arguing everyone should pack hand guns because it will protect them from Grizzly's. The first thing a lawmaker then says is, ok show us some statistics that show you're better off with a hand gun vs "insert 20 different things here" and you'll just go ... "errr duh... well.... I SAY SO SO IT IS TRUE!!!" and we go another 5 years trying to overturn the law.

I have a lot of hunting buddies and quite a few have had encounters with Grizzly's. 2 of my friends came up on a hill on a mother and her cubs. She didn't "stand up" initially. As soon as she spotted them she bolted for them. They were 50 feet away. By the time 1 of my buddies even registered the bear was there, my other buddy was THROWN through the air 20 feet and cracked his head getting a concussion and knocking him out cold. My other buddy was simply swatted aside and down a small embankment. She then roared and took off with her cubs.

1 had a rifle, the other a shot gun. I talked to them after and both said they had no chance, it happened so quick. The one thrown through the air still doesn't entirely remember what happened. Shit happens in the bush and thinking a hand gun gives you so much of a better chance is just an illusion and I think puts some people in the wrong frame of mind. Like I said, even if you have a missile launcher with you, being conscious of your surroundings and respecting bears and other wild life around goes further in my decades of backwoods experience than the tools you're carrying.

Does carrying a hand gun help? Does it increase the odds? Sure. I don't argue that. And trust me as a long standing member of the NFA I'm a huge advocate and have even written letters trying to get the hand gun carry laws changed in British Columbia. There are many areas where I'd just feel more comfortable with a hand gun vs pepper spray. Say standing in hip waders in the Nechako river fishing. But I'm not under this illusion that it is the great equalizer. That guy is pure lucky. Someone was smiling down on him. Another 2 inches lower and the bear wouldn't have crushed his jaw, the bear would have crushed his throat and it would have been lights out. No shot gun would have helped him then.

All I'm saying is if you want to argue for carrying hand guns, use a more realistic argument because claiming it is the create equalizer is just false more often than it is true, and law makers in this Province know it.

[Spy]

Then you didn't read what I said. Anyone that thinks a gun can protect them against a Grizzly is a fool. May sound contradictory but it is the mentality that you're invulnerable in the bush walking around carrying a hand gun which is just why you'd more than honestly have an issue. It's just like saying "I'm an amazing driver so I can avoid all car accidents." The reality is, every situation is different. This guy is lucky to have been able to get his shot gun off.

Can a gun protect you against a Grizzly? Absolutely. Given the right circumsance. Given the right circumstance you can survive falling out of a plane without a parachute. People have done that. But do you jump up and down saying "We should ALL jump out without parachutes because you CAN survive!!"? No. Because you know how silly that argument is. Same with arguing everyone should pack hand guns because it will protect them from Grizzly's. The first thing a lawmaker then says is, ok show us some statistics that show you're better off with a hand gun vs "insert 20 different things here" and you'll just go ... "errr duh... well.... I SAY SO SO IT IS TRUE!!!" and we go another 5 years trying to overturn the law.

I have a lot of hunting buddies and quite a few have had encounters with Grizzly's. 2 of my friends came up on a hill on a mother and her cubs. She didn't "stand up" initially. As soon as she spotted them she bolted for them. They were 50 feet away. By the time 1 of my buddies even registered the bear was there, my other buddy was THROWN through the air 20 feet and cracked his head getting a concussion and knocking him out cold. My other buddy was simply swatted aside and down a small embankment. She then roared and took off with her cubs.

1 had a rifle, the other a shot gun. I talked to them after and both said they had no chance, it happened so quick. The one thrown through the air still doesn't entirely remember what happened. Shit happens in the bush and thinking a hand gun gives you so much of a better chance is just an illusion and I think puts some people in the wrong frame of mind. Like I said, even if you have a missile launcher with you, being conscious of your surroundings and respecting bears and other wild life around goes further in my decades of backwoods experience than the tools you're carrying.

Does carrying a hand gun help? Does it increase the odds? Sure. I don't argue that. And trust me as a long standing member of the NFA I'm a huge advocate and have even written letters trying to get the hand gun carry laws changed in British Columbia. There are many areas where I'd just feel more comfortable with a hand gun vs pepper spray. Say standing in hip waders in the Nechako river fishing. But I'm not under this illusion that it is the great equalizer. That guy is pure lucky. Someone was smiling down on him. Another 2 inches lower and the bear wouldn't have crushed his jaw, the bear would have crushed his throat and it would have been lights out. No shot gun would have helped him then.

All I'm saying is if you want to argue for carrying hand guns, use a more realistic argument because claiming it is the create equalizer is just false more often than it is true, and law makers in this Province know it.

I have not once said carrying a hand gun will guaranty you a get out of jail free card ! But it could give you a fighting chance,is all I'm saying ! Sounds like we are in agreement ! As for them legalizing hand guns in the bush, it will never happen!

[Legi0n]

I agree with gitnadoix on this. Those that want to carry honestly don't want to because it will be safer, they want to because they want to. It's the choice rather than reality and things like this are just a reason to jump up and down and try to get the law changes. In reality though if we're all honest, it wouldn't make a difference if you were carrying a missile launcher, if a bear is within 15-30 feet of you and has the jump aka sees you before you see them and they decide to go after you, you have _0_ chance. 0. Doesn't matter if you're facing them empty hands. Bears are a lot faster than you think and even if you got a shot off the odds of hitting the bear with all that fear and adrenaline are next to nill. I train with hand guns quite often and am certified with holsters and I'd be pressed to even get my hand down to my hand gun in the time a bear can close 30 feet at full speed and run me over like a truck.

Remember a bear can run a 100 yard dash in about 6 seconds. The fastest human on the planet can do it in 9.58 seconds. That means the average Bear can close a 30 foot distance in 3 seconds or less. Now again remember, you did not see the bear but they saw you first. It takes the average person 2 seconds to react to a shock situation. That means you have about 1 second to draw your gun, aim, and fire.

Good luck.

Again I'm all for having the choice to train and then carry in the bush, especially for bow hunters who I feel are more vulnerable since 1) they don't have a gun and 2) the very nature of bow hunting is an attempt at stealth meaning you're more at risk of startling a bear in the bush. But don't forget the reality here. The issue is if you jump up and down arguing to carry hand guns and you use an unrealistic example like this to make your argument, it is easy for the government to just shrug you off. In order to change laws you have to make a good point and I'd much rather see people arguing my last point about the vulnerability of bow hunters than the fending off grizzly bears with Glocks.

How about the argument, if a remote worker can carry a hand gun because their "hands are full" with tools, why can't a fisherman in remote areas carry a hand gun because their "hands are full" with a tackle box, fishing rods, and BEAR FOOD (aka fish)? That's a more reasonable argument to me.

Still wouldn't change this specific situation though.

Both of you are assuming things and you're both wrong.
First you think you can't react fast enough. Here's 2 videos showing someone of us can. http://youtu.be/R3VdxHvQqsk http://youtu.be/ECheuuS5F80
Second you seem to entertain the misconception that you have to shoot the bear before it reaches you. Well it would be great but once the beast is on top of you, you may still be able to draw a holstered handgun (and at that distance even a 9mm is deadly). A shotgun or long rifle would be difficult to handle given the circumstances.

Yet, some people are defeated before the fight even starts because they convince themselves they can't win.

[Elkhound]

as others said.....I would at least like to have the option of carrying a handgun in the bush. Especially while bowhunting or fishing

[Singleshotneeded]

If you have a permit to carry one, the bare minimum handgun calibre that'll have any effect on a grizzly is a .44 Magnum.
I'd prefer something bigger for sure...and a .338 WM or larger calibre rifle would be much better yet.

[Grousedaddy]

Is that your opinion or do you have research thats backs up your .44 mag claim?

[browningboy]

Floors me how anyone would argue that extra protection wouldn't be helpful? Tell the guys that say it wouldn't help, both get charged by a bear, gun gets swiped away, as you back up or on your back one may have a chance to draw while the other kisses their ass goodbye!
just my 2 cents, better to have options than be wishful

[Spy]

Thanks for the update ! I sure do feel for him and his family & hope he makes a full recovery !

[Grousedaddy]

X2 one tough sob to still b alive after that




Thanks for the update ! I sure do feel for him and his family & hope he makes a full recovery !

[BCBRAD]

There you go, a 500 S&Whttp://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTEZDYZXeZ4GYVlV3bft_F9pb4sQbqP1 oaczTn5i7dzpoex7Rty

[Spy]

There you go, a 500 S&Whttp://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTEZDYZXeZ4GYVlV3bft_F9pb4sQbqP1 oaczTn5i7dzpoex7Rty
I love the round holding it up !